Blood Angels Part 2 - Getting Started in Horus Heresy

[@Gerendiell]

Assault Cannons are Assult 4 (instead of Heavy like always in the past). That means, that Tears can move an fire. For the Paladins: When you get charged from other Terminators, you'll have one round to inflict as much hurt as possible without them ID you because of your shields. As the Paladins have at least some S8, they have a chance of winning this on the casualties or at least reduce their enemy's number enough to stay in the fight in the upcoming turns. Interestng thing: Last Edition BA could swap all their Heavy Flamers for Assault Cannons. Now only Infantry you say? (I do not have the book) What about all the people that built their Contemptors with Assault Fists (broken as it was)? All the built Predators with Assault Cannons clustered all over them? What about the Leviathan that is still sold with Assault Cannons as its chest weapons?

[@davidkaplan605]

BA Vehicles can make the swap for 20 points each (instead of 10 for infantry).

[@TheOuterCircle]

Sorry, didn't clarify, it's only 10 points FOR INFANTRY. Good pick-up on the Assault Cannons being Assault. I completely glossed over that!

[@sonicwingnut]

Assault fists sounds pretty cool, I may investigate this haha.

[@JohnathanHo]

Coriolis Shields only reduce the To Wound roll by -1, not the Strength of the attack. S8+ attacks will still ID Paladins, even after the shield modifier (which also isn't just a "first round" thing; Coriolis Shields are always active against attacks that target Paladins). Given that the strength of Paladins is their durability when outnumbered, Terminators and anything that has S8+ or is really good at inflicting Instant Death on Paladins is a poor target to send Paladins into (since it bypasses their built-in scaling FNP). Rather, they're good at locking down basic infantry blobs or other elite infantry that aren't Terminators (assuming Terminators have Fists/Hammers).

[@Balevolt]

Also, Angels Tears are the only destroyers that come with the double Volkites

[@TeutonicKnight92]

I was playing a game the other day and a buddy of mine put a squad of EC Phoenix terminators into these guys… they spent three battle rounds pillow fighting each other until the EC player managed to get a Dreadnaught into the fight

[@shitlord9961]

This actually made me chuckle a little, no idea why.

[@v2vonhydra895]

Thanks for the video. I’m excited for the 8th!

[@killakhan7863]

If you are playing against milita or something angels tears with volkite cost less than a destroyer squad with the same loadout and you will have 40 shots of deflagration in 5 marines

[@TheOuterCircle]

Disgusting, isn't it?

[@Azkaellon9001]

The entire game has been tailored against militia or auxilia and I'm dreading to see what their releases are like. There's a reason we haven't even had hints of them coming soon yet- they definitely haven't started and when they do they're going to realise how fucked they are because they've backed themselves into a corner with the blast weapons and vehicle and dreadnought and terminator and ws5 2w terminators everywhere and the way low ws models now have NO CHANCE IN HELL at hitting and overall they just... can't do shit all anymore to marines. They're going to need to pull their heads out of their arses to get anywhere with these armies.

[@TheOuterCircle]

@@Azkaellon9001 Especially strength and leadership, how will strength 3 humans take on Contemptors? If astartes are Leadership 7, Solar would be, what, 6, that makes militia 4?!

[@TheOuterCircle]

@@Azkaellon9001 Especially strength and leadership, how will strength 3 humans take on Contemptors? If astartes are Leadership 7, Solar would be, what, 6, that makes militia 4?!

[@void4938]

The blood is forever isn't affected by other characters joining the squad so having an independent character doesn't affect if they are outnumbered or not

[@murraycutlerjr]

Nice overview. Heads up to other players - the RoW have more nuances than explained here, particularly the overly complicated deep strike. Any thoughts on our loss of hand flamers replacing volkite? I loved my hand flamers as fluffy options that did work in ZM!

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

This is what I was looking for. Thank you

[@sahaynam6470]

Great video, but bring on them Night Lords already, good sir!

[@chrisg3726]

Nice video Macca cheers. What’s your thoughts on Sanguinius now mate? I.e his stats, value, and how it lines up with the fluff….Or are you covering this in a later vid?

[@jp301]

I need the SpaceWolves BRO!!! I have the box set and don't really know where to go from there.

[@simonjackson1571]

Hmmm, new to HH and have been converting my 2.0 box. Have 10 marines left. What do folks think are better. 15 man assault squad and a 5 man heavy support with assault cannons or two 10 man assault squads?

[@rhodesiancowboy]

How are you making the assault marines? Which Legion are you building?

[@simonjackson1571]

@@rhodesiancowboy Blood Angels. Have bought some 3d printed jump packs and bits of eBay. The ones I've done so far have turned out quite well.

[@thomasclarke8553]

Both the blood angels and Imperial fists entry for the assault cannon is word-for-word the same, so no Imperial fists do not have more access? Unless I'm missing something???

[@JohnathanHo]

You aren't. The entries are indeed the same and (outside of Angels Tears units), both armies have equal access. It's just that Imperial Fists use them better (they get the +1 to Hit bonus).

[@sonicwingnut]

Decided to give a recaster a go and got some Dawnbreakers because fuck paying £60 for 5 dudes (and seriously fuck whatever Americans or Australians are being asked to pay for em). Not gonna lie with the exception of the spears being bent as a 9 bob note they're excellent quality. Wouldn't surprise me if GW take over FW completely eventually and do everything in plastic.

[@calvincox7904]

you're severely underrating guaranteed no scatter deep strike. Not sure how many games you've played of 2.0, but after a dozen or so games, guaranteed deep strike is a big deal.

[@Azkaellon9001]

Firstly you're straight up wrong about the Day of Revelation, we're forced to declare WHERE our first unit will deep strike and only THAT unit doesn't scatter. THIS is why it takes a whole page of words and it's so unbelievably stupid. Last edition's version made more sense and was better, and even that one was a bit scuffed. We lost the turn 1 deep strike, we lost the shrouded on entry, we lost the +1 initiative on the charge the rite gave us. These were fluffy and fun rules ruined for... no particular reason? Now we've gotten that out of the way I have a couple parts I have a difference of opinion on I'd like to share as a long time blood angels player (That being said this does also make me heavily biased, however I've tried to take that bias out the best I can). 1. Our warlord traits suck. This is alright though because we just use Raldoron and steal the fuckdiculous Imperial Fists one to get a ws6 command squad or some crazy shit like that. 2/3 are just straight up world eaters/night lords and the last is UltraSmurfs. Doesn't fit the legion at all. When I say suck, 2/3 suck in game and 3/3 suck lore/common sense/thematically speaking 2. Day of Sorrows is decent however nobody will have multiple squads of crimson paladins and it's just not really worth it when so much of our army is deep strike centric, I mean come on, we're the blood angels. Name a single legion people think of more than us when someone says deep strike, I dare you! Not to mention, forced to declare a challenge is more annoying than ever since wounds can spill INTO challenges but not OUT anymore. It's a complete 360 from the old rules and it's fucked challenges over. If you try and challenge with Sanguinius and they accept with a sergeant? suddenly Sanguinius can only kill one dude but if his squad dies then wounds flow onto him. To top it all off since Sanguinius and all the blood angels buffs are pretty much exclusively ON THE CHARGE, then we're fucked if that challenge wastes our charge bonus because our wounds don't flow out of challenges, rewarding the receiving character to be a prick and send up someone your character obviously isn't going to challenge when there's a much bigger target right next to them you want to kill. It's a core mechanic of the game that should not have been changed at all and feels so painfully stupid. 3. Dawnbreakers... Nerfed into the ground since last edition. What do you mean they get an additional attack for two combat weapons with the spear? they ONLY have the spear, the launcher is an assault weapon so only the base amount of attacks. The weapons are nice, but they're meant to be our bodyguard, our deathstar unit. Since they have no invulns they were always a glass cannon but their ap2 at initiative (ONLY on the charge) made them worth it because they actually had potential to put some hurt on. These were much more balanced than Suzerains with their insane axes, but the Suzerains I see got to keep their axes and now have a whopping 5 (!!!) attacks on the charge too, plus their other wargear and statline is just ridiculous, for the oh so huge cost of 5 points each (or equal price if you use swords on the Dawnbreakers). Dawnbreakers have been one of the hardest hit units in the game and they suck pretty hard now. They're by no means the worst unit in the game, but they are definitely at the bottom end of the scale. You talk about their grenade launchers but you either get to use them as a S6 bolt pistol that doesn't give you an extra attack, or as a really shit hand flamer with pinning you're not very likely to get off. It's okay but honestly I'd rather they had a bolt pistol. Their furious charge only matters if you take the swords and you recommend the wrong sword here if you don't mind me pointing out. One sword is a shit version of their spear for 5 points? which you recommend, but the other gives you shred and sudden strike at the cost of losing rending, reach and +1 str (which doesn't make much of a difference on the charging turn at least). This is going to at least give you a minor buff against power armour marines but on average you're paying 5 points for the ability to re-roll 1s to wound effectively, and you lose 1 str after the charge turn so it's roughly equivalent. Overall, I label Dawnbreakers as shit since you can just take a command squad and give them jump packs and lightning claws and have a better time for not many more points, and at least then you could give them power fists if you wanted and let them be the deathstar they used to be. 4. Crimson Paladins... Again, worse than last edition. 2 wounds and the fnp means shit all against masses of power fists. Your swords are MUCH worse than last edition because now your enemies have 2 wounds so you can't fucking hurt them. Not to mention the shields used to be -1 str, which means you would at least still get fnp against power fists so you could hold them up in combat for a while... now you don't. Sure we can take 10 dudes this time but that makes the fnp rule even worse than before again. I'd argue they're the worst terminators in the game and even standard terminators are better. The only noticable buff we got was ws5 but literally everybody got that so it's not really a change. Oh well. Plus the sergeant with the blade of perdition, since BoPs got nerfed to high hell and back... you catch my drift, they got nerfed, nerfed and nerfed again. I'm pretty sure you missed this in the video but they have Deep Strike now. This is the only redeeming trait. I'd completely disagree with where you say that 'on the surface they're not very good this edition', and argue that 'on the surface they're alright this edition' because off a quick glance it looked like they'd gotten pretty decent buffs, but when you look closer you realise last edition the only things that made them good are now gone and now they suck worse than ever, which is honestly quite impressive. I didn't think they could get any worse but somehow they did. 5. Angels Tears aren't all they're cracked up to be. You seem to have this amazement over assault cannons as though they're some special thing? I mean you said these are hands down the best heavy support squad now, and yet heavy support squads dropped heavily in price and lascannons got sunder which is insane. If you want the best heavy support squad just look to the sun killers or the havocs. Look at the insane things Iron Warriors can do with heavy support squads with them firing up to 5 times in a round, twice in yours and three times in your opponents. Assault Cannons aren't really any better than heavy support squads with... is it Volkite Culverins? more shots with the same strength and trades rending for double the range and deflagrate. Angels tears are maneuvrable, which is cool, but any opponent with two brain cells to rub together is just going to clean them off the table after one round of firing because it's just power armour. The grenade launchers are much worse than before since no more blasts which made them effective at just laying down absolute punishment on anyone who fucked up their placement of a large power armoured squad or any sort of militia/auxilia units and didn't space out enough. Assault cannons became assault which is cool, and the malfunction thing last edition was literal aids so I'm glad it's gone but they're still not worth the 350 points it costs for you to maybe kill a couple terminators or a decent amount of tacticals if you're lucky before getting wiped off the face of the planet. Not to mention interceptor is much more readily available now. The best option is to find a target you think you can make their points back off from one round of shooting. At 350 points, there's not that many targets I can think of that anyone could hurt significantly enough with these weapons to make this points bin worthwhile. In one round of shooting with 10 dudes you should deal 6.67 wounds to T4 terminators after saves. This assumes no FnP as well. That's a max of 3 terminators dead and one wounded in a best case scenario... roughly 120-150 points of damage? and next turn you'll be wiped out by boltgun blobs. Within 24" of the enemy there's not really anywhere you can fully hide from an army hunting you down because everyone fears the assault cannon with a much bigger bark than it's actual bite. Incendius I completely agree with. It's just not really anything to write home about. They could literally have just made it that we could give a contemptor Deep Strike for 25 points instead of it being a special unit to be honest, nobody would notice the difference. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Our legion trait got nerfed heavily. Last edition it was effectively the same thing as the Imperial Fists as being just a flat bonus. Now it's situational and most importantly DOES NOT LAST. For a legion where you just... can't get hit and run, this is a huge nerf and is effectively a really shit version of the night lords one, since it's much easier to outnumber a unit than to get the charge, and outnumbering lasts numerous turns, unlike the charge without a way to get hit and run. Sanguinius suffers this same problem with most of his special rules including his amazing faction bonus. The entire legion is now extremely dependent on the charge and if we either don't get it (which isn't that often) or it's the turn after (which is very often), then we're just.. factionless. This isn't particularly bad since I feel this was actually needed, however when compared with our worse-than-yours legion special units getting nerfed so damn hard, it hurts. Plus an interesting thing of note, it became practically identical to the 40k 8e blood angels special rule now. (I don't know if it's the same in 9th bc I refuse to play it).

[@Azkaellon9001]

Overall your video touches on some of the things a blood angels player really needs to know, but I feel as though this is more of a quick glance at the book type situation rather than a deep comparison to what it used to be and how it actually plays, and what little comparison there is was built on notions you got from first edition about assault cannons that had me puzzled back then too. As someone who has been using assault cannon based armies since 5e for roughly half my existence, assault cannons aren't much better than Volkite Culverins and something more tactical is much better than a glass cannon without much of a cannon. I love your videos but I feel like a longer look might be required at these rules, some of what I see and list here is definitely my bias towards my legion which I've tried to reduce but at least a decent portion of the above mentioned stuff has been overlooked. Also, please don't take this as me having a go, I'm trying to provide constructive criticism but it might come off as less constructive than I mean it to be because frankly I care way too much about this legion and how pissed off this edition keeps making me! I might sound overly negative but this series is amazing and overall this is a great video and I hope you keep on making this type of stuff because it really makes your channel a cut above literally any of the others, you tell it how you see it and you don't buy into the corporate bullshit to try and justify it to yourself. That's worthy of a lot of respect. Finally I'd like to mention something that fucks me off, which you don't really touch on in any of your videos because I guess it's not quite the intended topic and it could be seen as a bit salty, but Geedubs have drastically changed the way some units work and completely taken away their flavour. For instance if you go out and spend hundreds to get some Crimson Paladins because you find it really cool you have a unit that you can throw at some terminators to hold them up for a couple turns with their instant-death ignoring, feel no pain 4+ having, table staying ability and then having a Dawnbreaker ap2 charge as the hammer to that anvil, and they're the guard for Sanguinius attempting to double up for the STILL ABSENT SANGUINARY GUARD THAT AREN'T WELL REPRESENTED BY COMMAND SQUAD ANUJ (ahem), then when this edition suddenly all either unit can do is hurt tactical marines and they go out with a whimper, not even a fraction of what they were before, that hurts my soul and my wallet. I completely understand nerfing a squad if it's too powerful, but neither of these squads were too powerful, and all they've done it take away what little they had and damage the flavour of the legion. So much money spent for them just to take it away? that's a dodgy business practice and it's more evidence that they're manually manipulating the balance of the game to grind profits the way they do in 40k nowadays and I hate that it's made it's way over to 30k. I don't know if I'm going to stick with HH2 because every part of it just makes me feel depressed looking through seeing dumbass shit like this that is so obviously done for unethical reasons, and I hate it BECAUSE I love it so much. I love this game to bits and I hate seeing it move in a direction that just feels so wrong and unenjoyable.

[@TheOuterCircle]

@@Azkaellon9001 I did lay out specific scenarios where I think those units are great, and it's not for any of the (correct) examples you gave. I wouldn't be using Crimson Paladins EVER to fight other terminators, I wouldn't be shooting terminators with Angels Tears, I'd be using Angels tears to kill dreadnoughts and armour, deal with monstrous creatures etc. and I'd be using Dawnbreakers to annihilate targets of opportunity, whilst falling back on traditional heavy support units to cripple terminators.

[@Azkaellon9001]

​@@TheOuterCircle Angels Tears I hadn't considered against armour and you do make a good point there, this is their best opportunity to make back their points, but they're not quite capable of killing anything around the hefty 350 point mark of the squad. They could be considered worth it to put hurt on a priority spartan perhaps? but then again most legions have something significantly better at it... including the Blood Angels to be fair, the Incaendus with two meltas and fists is more reliable and won't die the next turn either, making it 120 points cheaper and a much more effective DISTRACTION CARNIFEX while it does everything the Angels Tears could have done, but better. As for against Dreads... you're only likely to do around 3 wounds after saves and invulns since you wound on 5s and only ignore armour on 6s, to which they still have an invuln. For 350 points you don't want to 'injure' a single entity significantly cheaper than the squad you used. And this is without even looking at Leviathans. For the Dawnbreakers and Crimson paladins, I think you know what I'm going to say. If you judge a unit by how good it is at killing power armour, you'll find many other units much more effective and often cheaper too. My point is that you can't ONLY look at all these units individually otherwise you'll end up not seeing the bigger picture. You have to look at the legion as a whole. Consider how it's going to stack up against another legion, how it's going to deal with the only two scary things in the game, terminators (legion specific ones especially) and dreadnoughts, with the slightly rarer consideration of legion specific murder units. When you take into consideration that we have what is effectviely a contemptor with deep strike, an expensive heavy support squad with fewer decent weapons and jump packs that attracts a lot of fire and two units almost exclusively used for killing power armoured units, it starts to become obvious that these units kind of suck because the legion can't handle other legions, which is a bit of an oversight for what was supposedly one of the killiest legions in the lore! I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the Angels Tears and consider them a sub-standard unit that doesn't really belong in the legion anyway. (Edit for a dumb grammar error)

[@TheOuterCircle]

@@Azkaellon9001 Crimson Paladins are just non-compulsory troops with line in my mind, holding objectives and forcing the enemy to expend a ton of resources to kill them off. Angels Tears won't kill dreads in one round, BUT thanks to their jump packs I see them as a high mobility unit constantly skirting around at their max range kiting the enemy. Bikes, skimmers, tanks, all of them will crumble to their fire, dreadnoughts in 2 rounds on average, so good at harassing an enemy, and if they can get the drop on enemy heavy support, just blitzing them off the table before they can literally react.

[@calvincox7904]

lol ur bad

[@revan235]

Damn, second

[@OmegaSolider13]

first lol