Bloodborne Theories With the Boys • Aesir, SmoughTown & Lokey

Special Thanks to SmoughTown, Lokey, Meph, the Bloodborne-Wiki and SinclairLore!
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Chapters
0:02:00 Charred Thermos
0:02:17 Connected Universes
0:05:21 External Sourcing
0:17:39 Nothing is bad in Bloodborne, England just looks like that
0:19:11 The Lone Survivor Class references the Fishing Hamlet
0:33:31 Doll is a Great One
0:46:16 Gehrman is the Orphan of Kos
0:57:23 Cainhurst has a Naval Culture
1:01:11 Pillars in Hunter's Dream
1:05:03 Frenzy Theory
1:13:54 Healing Blood is...
1:25:39 Silent Hill 2 Theory
1:26:24 Time Theory
1:39:29 Logarius is Allant
1:45:26 It's a Nightmare
1:53:04 Gascoigne Theory
1:58:52 Winter Lantern Theory #2
2:04:09 Player is a tool...
2:11:50 Eyes on the Inside isn't what most people think it is
2:12:52 Great One Babies
2:18:36 Gehrman can't be Orphan of Kos
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Footage
-Elden Ring = SincalirLore
/ @sinclairlore
-Dark Souls 3 = Lokey
/ @lokeydarksouls3582
-Bloodborne Sliders = Meph
www.bloodborne...
-Dark Souls = martanius
/ @worldoflongplays
-Demon's Souls
/ @bluelizardjello
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
My From Soft videos:
The Great Healing Debate
• The Evolution of Souls...
Armored Core Videos:
Armored Core 1: • Armored Core • Retrosp...
Armored Core 2: • Armored Core 2 • Retro...
Armored Core 3: • Armored Core 3 • Retro...
Armored Core 4: • Armored Core 4 • Retro...
Armored Core 4 Answer: • Armored Core for Answe...
Armored Core V: • Armored Core V • Retro...
Armored Core Verdict Day: • Armored Core Verdict D...
Armored Core VI: FIRES OF RUBICON: • Armored Core VI: Fires...
ARMORED CORE 1 CHAT: • Themes in Armored Core...
Dark Souls Videos:
ANALYSIS: • DARK SOULS • The Ultim...
LORE: • Exploring the Story of...
TRANSLATION: • Gwyn's Story • Dark So...
Sekiro Videos:
ANALYSIS: • Sekiro • Analysis (Ful...
LORE: • Exploring the Story of...
Bloodborne Videos:
ANALYSIS: • Bloodborne • Analysis ...
LORE: • Exploring the Story of...
TRANSLATION: • Bloodborne's Story • T...
Demon's Souls Videos:
ANALYSIS: • A Look Back At • Demon...
LORE: • Exploring the Story of...
TRANSLATION: • Re-Exploring the Story...
King's Field Videos:
King's Field 1: • A Look Back At • King'...
King's Field 2: • A Look Back At • King'...
King's Field 3: • A Look Back At • King'...
King's Field 4: • A Look Back At • King'...
Shadow Tower Videos:
• A Look Back At • Shado...
• A Look Back At • Shado...
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Interfaces & Immersion video:
• Interfaces & Immersion...
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Patreon: / medievalmegaman
Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/aesi...
Discord: discord.gg/CE2JbJQy7k

[@SmoughTown]

Cheers for having me on bud - was a lot of fun

[@AesirAesthetics]

any time 😎👉👉

[@zonk834]

As a viewer, I’d listen to you guys again anytime!

[@wind2536]

My theory is that bloodborne is cool

[@AesirAesthetics]

🤔 Will need to look into it

[@pinkemoslayer6337]

Source? 😉 😂

[@iamthehobo]

Positively scandalous!

[@abyssalrems719]

Can’t be a theory if it’s factual

[@spacesloth9529]

Miyazaki actually confirmed this in an interview

[@JJcanvas]

Very sad that Charred Thermos theories are not discussed and that you haven't seen the videos yet. Some of them might be reaching, but others are just insanely well researched and deserve a spot in any Bloodborne lore discussion these days, IMO! Other than that, great talk!

[@jordansebert11]

Eh charred thermos is okay. They are well researched as much as a reference theory could be.

[@wanshitong5101]

@@jordansebert11Any problems holding the theory back? I think they apply to the first part of the game very well, and the second fairly solidly. I support the weakest part is maybe…. The names / character connections sometimes? But it depends.

[@restitvtororbis5330]

​@@wanshitong5101 I just finished going through his videos for the second time yesterday and honestly, if they aren't 'bulletproof' theories, they're at least more bullet resistant than any other set of theories I've come across. The game having 'lovecraftian/cosmic horror' themes is accurate, but that doesn't seem to have any meaningful effect on the the 'medical metephor' that those videos point out. The fact that BLOODBORNE has some meaningful connection to medicine in some capacity is beyond dispute. The game deals extensively with Victorian era medical practice and terminology, and again the game is called BLOODBORNE (as in pathogen or infection transmitted by BLOOD). The fact that the literal name of the game is a term that is predominantly used in medicine is evidence that medicine is a critical factor in the game's meaning.

[@KingSleaze916]

Damn thanks for putting me on to them I can’t wait to listen to his videos while I go to sleep. I am always open to good channels that cover Bloodborne theories & breakdowns.

[@madmorgo6233]

What is the charred thermos theory? 👀👀

[@lokeydarksouls3582]

I like Aesir and Smough, but that third wheel is killing the vibe! Gtfo my bromance!!!

[@AesirAesthetics]

You failed to comment before Geoff and so you dont pinned. But thanks for coming on :)

[@lokeydarksouls3582]

@@AesirAesthetics Discrimination! Reported!!

[@ThommyofThenn]

Lmao! Absolutely wrecked

[@Scowleasy]

This but like unironically. Take a breath every one in a while

[@chriskaufman5214]

I heard this lokey fella talks all sorts of smack on aesir and smough on sin and Sophie's stuff.

[@portsilpa]

Aesir uploads just as I enter the library to get some work done, thanks for the podcast style!

[@AesirAesthetics]

choose me over the library! c'mon! >:V

[@Pedro_Colicigno]

Hi folks, i'm the guy from the Time Theory. I'll write it down a bit better, but I still only made it up for fun, it really isn't that good. You are stuck in a time loop, thats is why there is no body left behing. Everytime you die, it reverts you back to the last "checkpoint" both in space and in time. For this to work, I'm going by the logic that space and time are mostly the same, and we know the great ones love messing with time (cof cof, chalice dungeons); So now, lets say we got the plot going on, Mensis is trying to bring the red moon and Flora down, so they want to start the ritual. Now we got 2ish great ones that are involved, Flora and Rom. Flora is stronger tho. So Flora takes advantage of the whole deal with Gehrman and Lawrence, and uses a pawn to help out, US. We have 3 checkpoints in time during the game. First is Vicar Amelia. My theory is that Rom is basically locking time to pass from that point, her death. Why? Because whomever kills Amelia, can reach upper cathedral and eventually Ebrietas and Rom in byrgenwerth. But that is the weakest seal. Flora is trying to get time going again, Oedon is probably not happy with that either, so hey, there is 3 of them now. When WE kill Amelia, the first seal breaks and time passes, we reach night time and now can access Byrgenwerth. The closer we get to Rom, the harder it needs to make the barrier, every lantern bringing us closer. We are not the first to try and kill Rom, maybe in another loop is Damien who does it. Or another player (hurray for explaining invasions and coop). Finally we reach Rom, the moon he was holding back from coming down is lowered, it will need all of its power to kill us, but we are stronger. This triggers the last transition to the red moon. With Rom dead, the only thing remaining to finish this looong night is Mergo, the child that the Wetnurse stole from Flora. Basically the idea they tried to dial Flora, but Wetnurse picked up the phone first in Flora's house (uncool). So now we have both Mergo and the Wetnurse trying to hold back time from progressing, only we can see time passing, only we experienced the thousands of seconds it took. All because Flora is forcing our mind, our soul, our blood, to move trhouhg time. When we finally kill the Wetnurse and Mergo, time will go back to passing, as soon as Gehrman releases us, or we set him free, or we take Flora's place in the Dream. I imagine this like a weaving of time. All the people are threads, but now there are people trying to keep the loom still and others trying to work it, so everying just goes halfassed. When we die, our thread is snapped at the point of our checkpoint (lantern) and thus we resume from there. Some threads we cut were so deeply cut, their new points are now behind our last checkpoint. (If you know about Wheel of Time, I'm using a logic similar to how balefire works, but not exactly) This also works kinda with the DLC, with time reseting every so often so they can suffer more, but yeah, it was just for fun. This whole thing started as a where is the body talk with a friend of mine who loves BB as well.

[@EldritchAbced]

This makes sense; to add onto this my observation was that the real world, the top highest layer, must be the most normal, and that when people take the blood either they are healed or they die, and that in between this process they fall asleep as you see in the intro, and have a nearly eternal dream(you see bodies on the street as if they took something). Even the ones you meet who are convinced you and they are in the top level real world, are still dreaming, they are just on their last lives so they will wake up. When taking the blood, it gives the eyes of the one who it was taken from, so the old blood being from a great one, they fall asleep and then ask themselves what they want to be healed from. Some want to be healed from being human in their eyes. The time loop idea is synonymous with the memory idea, that much of what is seen and experienced exists in a dream-memory. You don't defeat these beings so much as defeat their memory they are also attached to. In the beginning you are directly told that you need only unravel the mysteries. In the beginning you ask about Paleblood, yet that doctor seemingly had no idea what that was, so it was rumored from a far off land that healing blood existed in Yharnam. This, over many cities and languages, would have been called clear blood, and then later on pale blood. There is no way everything was fine and then suddenly over the course of a few hours all of Yharnam and the events of the nightmare occur. Consider, you are awake in the intro, and then suddenly everything has gone wrong. Seeking the truth in Bloodborne is what can lead to the beasthood. The metaphor of why residents are told to stay indoors, it is also a metaphor for closing their eyes off to the outside reality and staying in their own existing knowledge, their egoic identity. This is also to explain how other residents may literally see a beast when they see you. The progress from day to night is linked to your knowledge of the mysteries, going from the light of the real world, into a darkness of the abyss of possibility. It did not turn into night time until after the cutscene was watched, giving insight into the mystery. The biggest insight after that was from what was learned from Willem, pointing to the moon reflected upon the sea; he was not pointing to the sea or the moon, or under it. He was pointing to the mirror. Those trapped in the dream are both alive and dead at once, they are stuck in something that is worse than a time loop, a dream memory field. What happened, to cause the original disaster, happened so long ago that it existed in its own memory behind the clock tower. Long after that, given the present is above the past, the fishing hamlet, ground covered it all, and others discovered the remains of the great ones, who then worshipped them. The pthumerians. Long after this, Yharnam existed. "Oh, I know the secrets beckon so sweetly", described as if by a smell, as if there was a holy chalice to visit not just a dungeon, also an area. How else exactly do the messengers travel and help the player character to travel to? When you are traveling through time, to progress the story, the nightmare already happened. You aren't defeating the actual real ones. It's a dream, remember? And when realizing fully you were trapped in it until you get out, it became a nightmare, the game literally tells you that you slayed a nightmare when you defeat Mergo's Wet-nurse. You are defeating them as a form of memory and also as a metaphor for your own disease, or what you sought to heal; seeking the truth once you already were healed. Because why stop there? Heal your disease, heal your human condition, heal your lack of total enlightenment, what's the worst that could happen, you find truth that you can not handle? Even more time has passed than many believe regarding this story. The fishing hamlet was the beginning. A great one entered the physical realm, perhaps because that is the only way it can reproduce. It had to have been with a similar enough great one, which must be an extremely rare find. We know great ones are not all completely unique; otherwise how can the amygdalas exist? Child birth for a great one must be nearly impossible as well, or she accidentally somehow entered the physical during labor, and her child died in the physical when born because her mate perhaps was not quite compatible enough, or she was attacked by another great one jealous of her being with child. She was not a bad one, she had a human face even after becoming a great one. Yet the members of the hamlet, when she washed ashore, desecrated her instead of helped. The anger of her child is what created the original nightmare. It was buried many times, yet the memory was never truly resolved, and every time a new link to the physical formed, the original nightmare would connect to the current dream. Flora represents the phony lead the player character originally received, to seek paleblood, good blood. Flora is just a strong great one seeking their own child, giving up on finding any other great one like themselves. Flora, like every other great one, has their own motivations and choices based on their original human self, with the rare exception of great ones born of other great ones. In other words, your hypothesis is pretty much correct, and it is inside of an even greater mystery. Currently working on a longform playthrough commentary to explore this topic in detail over time. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGfXo3-pet6KiZY

[@Pedro_Colicigno]

@@EldritchAbced Shit man, you went deep there, and very in the other direction from ym own idea. Cool theory tho. I don't think we were dreaming, just thatthe first death was when you would have reset to the afternoon Rom is keeping eternal, but Flora took you in and is helping you push trhough the day

[@jordansebert11]

Theory started off good then it felt like you started half assing the rest when you got to mergo and flora / wetnurse no offense.

[@Pedro_Colicigno]

@@jordansebert11 yeah, I agree, for this theory to pan out really well, I would need something to link it better to after the red moon. As soon as Rom dies, the theory kinda stops working if I don't think the wet nurse is doing the same thing as Rom was keeping the day from progressing.

[@jordansebert11]

@@Pedro_Colicigno true, I love Bloodborne so much man, its definitely my favorite piece of media

[@maskingtables]

Random 28yo dude in Canada here... You guys are amazing. I listen to this while I'm farming blood vials. Then I stopped playing, and I just had fun listening to this. Please keep doing more theory talks. We need more of that fun spirit that explores ideas that are just cool to think about without being so serious about the lore bibles. You guys achieved a great sweetspot between lore knowledge and carefree imaginative fun.

[@MonoFlax]

Re: time theory I think there’s merit in the idea that the proximity of the moon presence has sort of warped time to an extent, turning this night into an endless "nightmare of blood and beast" in a metaphorical sense. As gehrman says, "the moon is close, it will be a long hunt tonight"

[@teamshesh]

Just when I think I’ve seen every lore video, listened to every podcast at work, about Bloodborne, here you guys are. May the good blood guide our way….

[@pinkemoslayer6337]

What a trio to talk about Bloodborne.😎

[@Arc-ug7dc]

Over a decade later and still the same: goddamn Lokey loves to talk 😂 love him tho

[@jordansebert11]

Totally annoying.

[@meddebrayen745]

new to bloodborne and im now obssesed with this game

[@gilbertlopez2333]

Welcome gilbo66155 if u ever need help

[@Pattyrick666]

I had the frenzy one! Thanks for explaining, I was missing a key understanding of the 'vitality' of blood in Bloodborne. I had never considered frenzy could be my own blood reacting like the blood test scene in The Thing lmao. Great video!

[@crisf7125]

This was great! Big fan of yall! I totally enjoy the lore you all put out!!

[@AesirAesthetics]

Thank you! Here's to hopefully many more!

[@ThommyofThenn]

Whoa i never really thought yall would all know each other but it really makes sense. Always nice to see smoughtown get in on some theorycraft

[@matthewmyers4831]

Aesir didn't have enough coffee, but Lokey had way too much...

[@yeez13]

I wish we knew more about exactly how FromSoft & SCE Japan Studio originally intended for the game back when it was basically Demon’s Souls 2 both in theory and according to the code inside the “Project Beast” build. From what’s been recovered inside of the Retail version of Bloodborne, there’s still lots of references to this “DeS2” version of the game, with the “Boss Livers” and other such stuff including how Micolash was originally a priest/clergyman/evangelist who frequently used “Umbasa”. There’s a lot still out there to discuss about this “theoretical Demon’s Souls 2” that it began as, but not much on how they intended for it to follow up Demon’s Souls ending(s) 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@skepsisrollins1711]

wasn't long enough, thanks fellas

[@SeanScorpion]

Hades is wealthy because he lives underground where gold and jewels are pulled from. Ancient myths are literal and figurative at the same time.

[@mrdeanypants]

This was really entertaining, thanks Aesir, SmoughTown and Lokey. One thing that did confuse me though is the thought process of discounting in-game models based on the idea that 'it's just the model they chose', specifically when talking about the Winter Lantern. I actually really like the idea that you all propose of that creature being a failed attempt to harness the power of the Brain of Mensis, and ideally those models would have had an appropriate set of clothes to reflect that - but the fact is that the Winter Lanterns do resemble the Doll, and they don't solely exist in the Nightmare of Mensis, so it makes sense to take away that they're eldritch beings that appear as the Doll for whatever reason. Whether that's due to artistic intent or a lack of time of development is irrelevant, because that's how they appear in the game. Obviously, I don't know specifically what the Lanterns are either, but it feels like a slippery slope to handwave elements of what's actually in the game based on what could have happened during development. To me it'd be like saying that the Bloody Crow isn't actually wearing the Crow Set, or the Vileblood Helm, it's just the armour they put on that character and that you shouldn't extrapolate connections to other characters based on that. How do you decide what is 'legitimate' in-game representation of characters, creatures and locations, and non-legitimate? Rant over, love all your work!

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks bud! You are right ofc - that is just my perspective and I could 100% be off on it. Thanks so much for the comment and pleased you enjoyed the discussion!

[@mrdeanypants]

@@SmoughTown

[@geordiejones5618]

Two notes about the menstrual blood discussion. In terms of inspiration, Miyazaki was developing this game while also going through the emotions of experiencing the birth and growth of his first child, and a lot of the story beats reflect that reality. A much more in depth discussion of this topic is covered in a brilliant piece titled "Visceral Femininity: A Bloodborne Video Essay," which has in my opinion the most unique take on Bloodborne's central concepts and ties a LOT of elements of Bloodborne together in a very cohesive manner. As a guy it was very interesting to hear an intricate analysis of the under-discussed feminine aspects of the game that fundamentally changed how I view Bloodborne and approach its lore. I think most guys like me who played simply lack the experiences of being a woman that make the arguments she presents so well thought out.

[@trevorditmar]

I don't mean this as strictly "this is what's happening" but around 1hr 50 when you're talking about the it's all a dream theory, I've always kind of thought The Night as a blending together of both worlds in a sense like the convergence of the realms of 3D and 4D. When you think about it this way, the 4D Old Ones have a "omnipotent" ability to see or interact with the 3D, but not the other way around. As The Night progresses, the barriers begin to break down. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it's a fairly conservative way to understand how you can physically exist in say, the Nightmare realm. I don't wanna be dropping links in your comment section but Action Lab has a pretty simple explanation of how 2D/3D/4D interact in a video called "What Does a 4D Ball Look Like in Real Life? Amazing Experiment Shows Spherical Version of Tesseract"

[@StephanuSneed]

If you remember the wikis being very fucked up regarding lore around 5 years ago, that's probably at least in part because back in the day there was a fextralife user by the name of Rakuyo who would write very long and detailed essays on the connections between the games to prove the one universe theory (among other things) and then link them all over the fextra wikis. It was very obnoxious and funny, with very unhinged stuff like saying Cainhurst had something to do with Izalith because some of the furniture featured an animal that vaguely looked like a salamander. His stuff was sadly purged from the site a long time ago, but I'm glad he left a mark.

[@Riggs_The_Roadie]

Not quite on the level as the circumcision dude on the Silent Hill wiki but commendable nonetheless.

[@vj7248]

it was the greatest part of fextralife unironically. the unifying theory was based around the tarot cards, so every weapon and every item had something about tarot card trivia that linked bloodborne & ds3 together.

[@BrettFairchild]

Great video. Even though it was a rush to talk over each other sometimes, a lot of great ideas, reflection and discussion here

[@diandrea4]

Gehrman is stuck in a Dream created by an Elder God that was part of a deal made by him & Laurence. Laurence traveled to the deepest depths of the dungeons below the city where he found an Ancient Queen that was pregnant and he took her baby? Used the baby as a Lure to beckon the Elder God at Gehrman's Old Workshop. The deal was to find a surrogate or someone to have the baby for them in exchange becoming great ones themselves. Did they go to the Fishing Hamlet after this? Did Laurence also bring the Kos fetus to the Old Workshop and thats why we find one of the infant great ones special organ?

[@annyonny1224]

I never knew Ben Shapiro was secretly a fan of Japanese lore translations.

[@DavidKalinex]

Wow great combo, thanks for getting together for this guys! Really enjoyable mix of opinions

[@jordansebert11]

Lokeys theory about menstruel blood was when he went completely and utterly full Tard.

[@francisco8345]

There is a dude who could benefit from letting others finish what they are speaking maybe

[@dudewhy2771]

Lokey: Chronic strawman creator.

[@chables74]

Bloodborne and Elden Ring existing in the same cosmos reads really well to me, but I think that’s coincidence not design.

[@aleverettes2789]

10 years ago when I first played bloodborne I thought this is the most cool ass and convoluted plotline ever! And 10 years later I'm here listening to Loki talking about the game like a sitcom

[@legendofzeldaforlife8374]

3 of my favorite analysts theorizing on my favorite game! I'm in heaven

[@10hawell]

You are wrobg about Yharnam. European city state was always the city and lots of noble castles and vilages around it, in the game we nerver leave the City State of Yharnam. You can look at it as free city of Danzig. And fact that Yharnam is mountainous - it inside the fjord, deep bay sandwiched between the mountains, natural harbor. Yharnam is like Hansatic League city of our world. Danzig is a great example because it was protestant city state surrounded by Catholics and Germanic on ancient Baltic land and surrounded by Slavs.

[@gilbertlopez2333]

And we talk to the guy…. GILBERT! We talk to Gilbert

[@Arc-ug7dc]

SMOUGH SAID KEGARE TAKE A SHOT

[@AesirAesthetics]

is this how I die? my contributions attributed to another? very well.....

[@SmoughTown]

@@AesirAesthetics And so the student becomes the (kegare) master

[@annyonny1224]

"Blood." "Borne." Is it possible, this game relates to bloodiness? Say of the sort that tends to occur upon being born? 🤔 Deepest lore.

[@rlou4386]

10:35 Know how the Roman equivalent of Hades was called Pluto? Guess where the word plutocrat comes from.

[@crisco_dj]

I need a full analysis of metal gear solid 4.

[@maskingtables]

YESSSSS

[@Big_Dai]

EDIT: What is anyone doing liking Bloodborne and not watching the Charred Thermos content!?? That is the best game content on KZbin on the franchise.. Impressive how the market has failed me, and no other game has yet overtaken Bloodborne as my favorite game.

[@boleshuggah]

I agree, all conversations about bb lore are irrelevant if the person talking didnt watch charred thermos. All of his videoa are pure lore gold. BB is one of the most detailed and beautiful games to exist

[@bigchoppa783]

When I read that Charred Thermos theories weren’t even mentioned from the comments, I didn’t bother watching the rest of the video. I seriously think his conclusions are almost always bulletproof, and I’m seriously waiting for the day Miyazaki goes, “hey, this guy! He figured it out!”

[@elliotyourarobot]

If we were in a dream, where was Snake Eater?

[@goathero24]

He was going through the rain and feeding on tree frogs

[@harrysachz6395]

This is a post about Time and the Waking World. We can accept that time diegetically progresses oddly because it is a video game: perhaps one could argue that canonically Bloodborne takes place over the course a single 8 hour night. But because it is interactive media, the APPARENT progression of time is determined by the player. I can accept that easily enough. Where I begin to lose my grasp on the plot are the details about, say, Micolash, Djura, and Eileen. I think we can safely infer that Micolash and the Mensis Ritual have been "in progress" for a LONG time. Long enough for the bodies to mummify. We can infer that Mensis has been abducting people for a long time (years?) and it has been years since they began the ritual. Real citizens in the Waking World were grabbed and sacrificed. When we kill Rom and cancel her interference in the ritual, the Blood Moon becomes apparent, and all the other eldritch horrors are revealed. We kill the One Reborn now that is accessible to us, and then enter the Nightmare of Mensis and deal with the Wetnurse to silence Mergo. Okay that describes the events we undertake, but I'm scratching my head about our relationship to the Waking World. Rom and the One Reborn were killed in the Waking World, correct? The Nightmare of Mensis was part of the dream lands, which is above / adjacent to the Waking World. Again, we can assert this canonically happens in a single, normal night. Which makes me wonder about the Hunters Dream. So okay, it's basically the rubber band that snaps our dead body/soul back into the Waking World, right? Rather than merely dying and going to some afterlife (or nowhere, who knows), the function of the Dream is to basically reanimate our bodies so we can keep trying. Since it's a game, it's just a lives mechanic. But diegetically should we infer that our body materializes at the checkpoint, kinda similar to how in the Destiny franchise our Ghost reconstructs our body after we die? At some point in development, the lanterns were Chairs. The player would sit in the Chair and nod off to sleep. I think the idea was our soul would transport to the Dream and we xould level up/etc. the Lantern provides the same basic function, and I suppose diegetically just provides a fast travel within the Waking World. We don't literally teleport in game, but neither are we the player forced to watch the Hunter travel. So with that in mind, can we assert that Djura and Eileen has the same experience. They both mention the Dream and Doll, but is there anyway to know how long it's been in the Waking World since they were touched by Flora? Similarly, is there any way to glean the details of what they did in their times? If the Dreaming Hunter is acting in the Waking World, that means the things the Dreaming Hunter does affects other people in the Waking World. For example, we killed the Blood Starved Beast. That means in the Waking World, that monster is dead. Barring some kind of cyclical reforming, BSB is dead for everyone and for all time. So can we assert that Djura and Eileen never killed the BSB? How could they, if we did it later, all of us acting in the Waking World? Wetnurse and Mergo are in the Nightmare of Mensis, and who knows how reality works there; maybe they DO recur cyclically and Djura and Eileen fought Wetnurse also. But maybe not. I don't think so but I can't confidently assert it's impossible. Sooooooo all of this to say, can we infer that Djura and Eileen experienced the same Dream as us but completely different events during their Nights? I'm thinking this through and wonder what other Good Hoonters think

[@ryanehredt1446]

Loki man, you need to take a breath sometimes, let someone else add their two cents to the subject every once in a while. Create insights but a conversation necessitates two or more people haha.

[@PoetryAndTofu]

Thank you. Can't listen to the whole thing for that reason.

[@w345345345]

Lokey got that dog in him.

[@jordansebert11]

Lokey is totally annoying, ruins 80% of it for me amd just tries to show off what he knows with minute details.

[@10hawell]

Who are you boy? It's so much my head is burning Where's your cauliflower? I don't have any... No cauliflower? no no that's not right little boy should have cauliflower

[@elliottvantonder5477]

I'm crying! This fits so well! Esp with Eustace picking mushrooms off his back 😭

[@nicholasharlan6504]

The Gherman connection with the orphan, at least to me, seemed to be a result of the curses very nature. A curse for blood drunk hunters. Gherman wields the title “first hunter” I think more than anyone else, Kos would have wanted Gherman trapped in her nightmare for the atrocities he committed at the hamlet. But he was spared due to the interference of another great one. The orphan, who protects the very root of the curse, assumes a form reminiscent of the very monsters that brought ruin to the hamlet and desecrated his mother’s body in the first place. It shapes and models itself after, A Hunter.

[@sootythunder3111]

The closest I ever came to accepting a theory of a shared universe was kept strictly Dark souls and Bloodborne, and that Bloodborne is the painted world that gets created at the end of the ringed city dlc, with marvelous Chester being pulled out of the painted world and sent into Dark souls 1

[@maskingtables]

Honestly, Sekiro fits way better with Bloodborne. The Dragon is an Old one that came from the west. The centipedes are vermin. Traveling between realms of existence. It is too perfect when you take into account the slug-like creatures in the palace close to the dragon.

[@alexandrucatalindragan6842]

Dude, I've been with you since your SH2 commentary video. Please finish the SH4 one before 2024 is over, quite a few of us have been waiting for that one, and it's been almost 6 years!

[@AesirAesthetics]

Check out my community tab

[@WillboeBagins]

Low key lowkey let them talk plz....

[@PoetryAndTofu]

You ain't kidding. Jesus

[@jordansebert11]

Aesir Im going to be straight up with you dude, I love Bloodborne and I like Lokey, but damn he should stick to tweets, listening to him is unbearable, its like listening to a little kid rant at 1.75x speed analyzing the minute details on things to just show he knows the most out of everyone im the room and he jumps around on points like crazy. I love your bloodborne videos but the ones with him in them Ill still listen to but I really dont enjoy hearing him talk and analyze. Keep it up! We love your Bloodborne videos regardless!

[@AssailantLF]

Lokey being energetic would be fine if he wasn't interrupting others and repeating himself so much. Multiple times throughout this cast, Lokey and Smoughtown are quickly talking over each other repeating themselves, and by the end of their exchange they go "what was the question again?", and imo this wouldn't happen if Lokey was just a bit more patient and chill and focused

[@jordansebert11]

​@AssailantLF I agree but my gripe with Lokey is that he makes these moot points that doesn't relate to the "meat" of the actual point hes making so often and just drones on and on. It makes it boring because as a listener you dont care about who knows the most on Bloodborne but you want to get lost in what they are talking about, ESPECIALLY on a theory video😢

[@antoinewilliams1358]

I believe the doll in the original workshop was just a doll that Gehrman made out of obsession with Maria.. in the hunters dream or maybe more accurately, the first hunters dream, the doll was given life through the moon presence.. white blood. The most fascinating thing to me is when the moon presence came down, it embraces you almost passionately.. perhaps it was Gehrmans strength of passion that prompted it to create this haven for hunters, perhaps in his despair and loss.. this was his idea of peace and perhaps the moon presence felt some form of emotion from Gehrmans plight that it craves. In one ending you take his place.. is it because he has grown tired of the facade or maybe the moon presence seeks to refuel the passions at first felt..

[@PoetryAndTofu]

Cannot finish this thanks to Lowkey interrupting everyone. That frustrates me to no end in my own life.

[@PintsofGuinness]

damn aesir absolutely *needs* to watch those charred thermos vids. possibly the best fromsoft theory crafting series in existence.

[@Scowleasy]

Ehhh not really. The theories don’t have any evidence other than “it lines up”. Saying characters are directly inspired by someone from history and not having *any* proof from developers makes it tenuous at best.

[@PintsofGuinness]

@@Scowleasyyou just described basically all fromsoft lore

[@Scowleasy]

@@PintsofGuinness yeah not really

[@skepsisrollins1711]

@@Scowleasy wow, sure convinced me!

[@kimlee6643]

The fact that Charred is back (and active) is also quite the surprise. No one needs to accept anything they don't like/think makes sense, but the fact he bothered to such an extent is rather amazing. His content is the cultural/medical/sociological equivalent of Tarnished Archaeologist with ER and I think that's quite valuable.

[@FishBoneD14]

Hades is associated with wealth because so many valuable things come from under the earth.

[@annikahurtig5393]

After killing the Wet Nurse you can actually hear the baby babble abit and then go back to sleep; the nightmare is slain so it can now sleep calmly again.

[@pastorofmuppets4552]

Bloodborne is more Lovecraftian than it gets credit for. Or maybe I’m just looking at it through a Lovecraftian lens.

[@kimlee6643]

It's interesting how it can be argued both ways, really. Nowadays its considered less relevant to elevate the Lovecraftian elements, but back when Redgrave was cool it was the core of any BB conversation, more or less. Or, perhaps to put it better, the Lovecraftian parts are what got people so interested in asking questions.

[@restitvtororbis5330]

I say this as someone who was obsessed with Lovecraft stories before bloodborne, I honestly think the connections to Lovecraft are actually overemphasized by the community. There are most certainly cosmic horror elements in bloodborne, but calling most of those elements 'lovecraftian' feels wrong to me, they just don't fit in a way i feel comfortable categorizing them in. Lovecraft was no doubt an inspiration for most cosmic horror of the past century, and bloodborne by default, but i don't feel like the era of cosmic horror Lovecraft wrote in is the same that bloodborne was written for. I don't know if that makes any sense.

[@patrickswayyze]

The way you responded to if you have seen charred thermos videos sounds like you think they are gone but they have been reuploaded on youtube and they are able to be watched. I highly encourage that you watch them.

[@timothydevine3064]

Probably because they are complete nonsense. He does a good job of identifying influence to the art direction of blood or e, but he contradicts himself a couple hundred times throughout the series. His whole video series in general, he is desperately trying to shove mechanics and lore of the game into a box that fits his misguided theory. The videos are well researched. He out a ton of effort into them. It's a novel approach, but it's very very flawed.

[@patrickswayyze]

@timothydevine3064 please provide your best example of a contradiction or flaw in his videos so I can take a look. I'm open to have my mind changed.

[@timothydevine3064]

I don't want to rewatch them and it's been so long. They are glaring and constant. There is a reason the original creator has distanced himself from the work. I will say I didn't watch all of them. I started out impressed, he did a great job of identifying the real world inspiration for a lot of the designs in the game. But very quickly his lore explanations and misplaced, contradicting, and extremely thin metaphor quickly turned me off. It's wasn't the work of a scholar. It was the work of a kid on too much Adderall or meth. His approach was to make everything fit his preconceived ideas on the theme of Victorian medicine that he identified in the art design. That's not how it works. Obviously bloodborne being heavily inspired by Victorian eera medicine is no great revelation anyways. Charred thermos just did a good job researching the specific real world examples in architecture , medicine, and possibly bloodborne used for its designs. If you listen to Loki and smoughs videos above, it really sounds like they are addressing all the enormous flaws in charred thermos videos without specifically calling it out. They are just being very charitable by masking their comments as general feedback on interpreting lore.

[@patrickswayyze]

@timothydevine3064 charred thermos reuploaded all his videos and will be making more content and had personal reasons for leaving before. So he's not distanced at all. I get not wanting to look anything up for a stranger but since there's SO many errors just providing one good one would be really great as I'd like to look into it and possibly agree with you and change my opinion. the comment about meth is uncalled for but hey its the internet

[@silvereyedlionking21]

​@timothydevine3064 there's so many things hilarious about your misinformation and glazing of those 2 theriosts😂 please try getting eyes on the inside and try to expand your cognition. Lmao😂

[@TheAnaz41745]

The mention of Honkai Star Rail is interesting since the devs definitely knew about Bloodborne(just look at the easter egg in Rivet Town), and the Aeon having their own agenda and being more active than the typical Lovecraftian Eldritch gods with some even interacting with their followers certainly reminds me of the Great Ones in Bloodborne. Then we have Penacony with the dreams layers and once again I can't help but think of the nightmares stacked on top of each other in the Hunter's Dream

[@Sam-lf3hn]

Hey Aesir, have you ever considered looking into the nier/drakengard games? I'd imagine you'd enjoy the stories they have to tell.

[@strawhatshinigami9190]

I love Drakengard

[@slightlytwistedagain]

Regarding the bit about Miyazaki trying to implement an NPC companion like Laurence/Oscar/Soul of Cinder throughout the game who then turns into the final boss, I've always seen Gael as the successful attempt of doing that. Sure he's not the last boss of the main story, but he is the last boss of the DLC story that is in a way thee final battle at the end of time. I actually think it's better this way because having a companion that turns out to be the main final boss would start to feel contrived on repeat playthroughs. As for the Doll being a great one, a theory I heard and liked is that the Little Ones is a great one that uses the Doll as a motherly avatar/proxy. Being a collective of Little Ones, this Great One is unable to cradle an infant. It doesn't matter that the Doll is its own entity, the Great One gets joy of being a part of the infant's upbringing, like a disabled grandmother watching her daughter cradle her grandchild.

[@portsilpa]

Finally being able to take a listen to this while on the gym! Please make more.

[@A_d_e_k]

01:39:50 Hey that's from me!!! Very interesting thoughts :), thanks for including it Aesir.

[@el9634]

Bloodborne exists just so a writer could say and it was all a dream without being a hack

[@Baldesteagle420]

Lokey needs a time out NOW

[@TheAjmos]

Discovering a characters possible inspiration gives me closure in some ways. Like we don’t get much on Godwyn, but discovering his similarities to Baldur gives me a better idea of what the developers were thinking.

[@realitycheck439]

Awesome video

[@patchwilliamson]

I don't think "it was all a dream" really means the same thing in Bloodborne as it does in other stories, so in theory, all of the events of the game could have actually happened, even if it was "just a dream"

[@cyberninjazero5659]

14:00 Evengallions director says that but I think Wisecrack made a very good case for why all the imagery fit in too well to be accident or coincidence

[@maskingtables]

The actual creator said it is a coincidence. That's the objective truth. Everything else is fanfic.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@maskingtables "No creator has ever lied about their work ever"

[@maskingtables]

@cyberninjazero5659 it's meaningless to claim that anything a creator says might be a lie. Under that logic I can claim that Evangelion is a story about having a transgender daughter with cancer, and everything the writers say about me being wrong it's just a lie.

[@cassianojahn597]

Pls do a video of you guys comenting on the Charred Thermos theory...

[@Mojj2099]

Which one though he has a whole series haha

[@cassianojahn597]

@@Mojj2099 I guess I would like one talking about the big picture. A rundown of sorts, but mainly talking about the science x corpses x dissection

[@jordansebert11]

Dude what theory? Is just a refernece theory book on geographic culture basically. Its alright but is 90% talking about other real world doctors. Thats it.

[@wanshitong5101]

@@jordansebert11Well, I mean, think about it. His whole point is that it permeates the Game. So of course, 90% of it will be him talking about the real world connections XD The Art & Literature connections are also quite vital, as well as his in-game Art and Location analysis, much like any other Lore Analyst. Item descriptions + Environmental Analysis…. Pretty much common to any Lore analyst.

[@00xkiller]

sorry for bad english . i think you all should read the randolph carter stories by lovecraft it can may be explain the dream reality meshing/stacking and the lost and gain of souvenir/insights when waking and dreaming that micolash talk about. it can also maybe explain the shenanigans whit the fact that we may be are dreaming or in a mesh of planes like after the eclipse in beserk since the begining ,probabably because of the moon and flora and the old blood in our veins from the transfusion. i also ask my self if the doll is not to be consider a kind or kin of great ones because just like the brain of mensis she is created by another great one (mergot for the brain and flora for the doll ) as an amalgam of things who messed whit great ones , re born wihthin a dream . she can also whistand our presence as a great one and even semi communicate whit us . i even ask my self if she is a womb made by flora for us to become his infant great one , she speak /know of him before the event at the end and we appear as a slug first while beign in her arm while she cuddles us like her baby ,after all the slug we became did not just spawned in when flora was killed , we maybe re borned from her in a way.we also know the greatest yearning of great ones is to have childs and we know they need a womb . we could even say she and her cosmic power is already partly the one responsible for us to have the abilitie of nourishing ourself to become this new thing . there is also the fact that she may be a special potential womb because of her descendance ( by beign maria ) because like analise who wants to and maybe was destined to , and queen yharnam who actually also did it , the ability to not really die like arianna or the other when bearing great ones infants would surely be beneficial to beign suitable to bear them to good term . all just fun stuff to think about haha!

[@TheOneBearded]

Is Lokey going to make a lore book for Bloodborne? That's the real theory.

[@AesirAesthetics]

he better! or else 🔪

[@Bigfreakinsword]

Tune & Fariweather already have a FANTASTIC Bloodborne book! They worked with Lokey on Abyssal Archive

[@TheOneBearded]

@@Bigfreakinsword I thought that was just Dark Souls?

[@Bigfreakinsword]

@@TheOneBearded Abyssal Archive is! The Bloodborne one is called Blood Echoes, definitely worth looking at

[@TheOneBearded]

@@Bigfreakinsword Right, the anthology of various essays. I'm thinking more of a BB version of Abyssal Archive. Still need to check out Blood Echoes tho.

[@gabriellecollier8127]

The part about the menstrual blood made me _GAG_ but y'all guys were casually talking about everyone drinking it. It killed me lol

[@minespatch]

Patches voiced Walter in ac6, Patches was in 4answer, Patches insekai'd to Boletaria |D

[@AesirAesthetics]

It's entirely possible

[@boleshuggah]

Charred thermos is the only relevant and true bb lore channel

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

Lowkey needs to calm down lol let other people talk

[@TheNeoLoneWolf]

How can you say that the fromsoft games can't take place in the same universe because the cosmologies don't line up when the Elden Ring can seemingly rewrite the laws of reality? Personally, I think they're all happening in parallel worlds which is why we see similar imagery in Ash Lake, The Hunters Dream, and The Elden beast boss room. They're like world lines, but I'd be surprised, and upset if the games ever crossed over

[@skidmc]

how can you begin like that. I mean thermos is the only hot thing rn!

[@pastorofmuppets4552]

1:27:52 Smoughtown’s laugh improves my day

[@MadMax22]

Heres my theory for bloodborne Gherman was originally a cainhurst knight because in his boss battle he uses his single handed sword in a quick series of attacks the same way you attack with the Gun sword reiterperlash.

[@southernconcretesludge9675]

Hello people, I'm very much new to the bloodborne game and as many people when I finished it I became obsessed with it and started to dive deep in to the story and the lore of the the bloodborne universe through all you're lore deep dives. I am very well read on Lovecraft so I new some aspects of the game and it made the game even better, but there is a comic book from the 90s which confused me because nobody is talking about it and it kinda looks bloodborne ripped off that comic book by a lot, and that's not to bash on the game or anything, I think this is by far my favorite game of all time but when you see that comic series, from the protagonist to the weapons he uses to the monsters he fights and the setting in which is set it's kinda the same 😅 can somebody elaborate on it I'm very curious because I can't find any information that links these two mediums. The comic series is The Marquis intermezzo and dance macabre.

[@ivankrylov6270]

Hey, i had that last orphan of Kos one thanks for talking about it! But to clarify, A. His placenta doesn't look like the burial blade but a deep sea fishing hook B. I still think Kos had to he fished out bc the great ones don't just hang out in the real world unless they have something specific to do

[@AntiSocialismo50]

The placenta looks like the burial blade. It even resemblance attack moves in his first phase with the one hand attacks.

[@ivankrylov6270]

@AntiSocialismo50 There's some parallel visually, but bonfire vn has an upclose video, and its being stretched out from the inside by a hook

[@AntiSocialismo50]

@@ivankrylov6270 it resemble the attacks of the burial blade, not that look exactly like it. Maybe is a combination of both.

[@vj7248]

bloodborne theory: PS4 emulation will become possible when we finally gain eyes on the inside (2029)

[@edthedungeonmaster1015]

Where is Sinclair Lore and/or Dr Sophie?

[@AesirAesthetics]

they were busy sadly :(

[@edthedungeonmaster1015]

At least Lokey shouted them out 😂

[@a.walker7366]

Damn that was a killer time with the boys

[@butterchicken9912]

Since for ever i believed the theory that the hole game happens in a dream and you only reach the waking world at the end. One of the events that made me think that mostly was the password guy that turns out to be dead, seems like i was wrong and it makes me sad :(

[@dovahgoatdragonbear3075]

Lokey Lowkey talking too much

[@Mojj2099]

I loved this, please do more 🙏

[@cthulhluftagn3812]

2:17:44 ..what?.. Im sorry but where did this idea come from, the hunters dream is a prison we cant escape from, flora is using us to do the dangerous work of hunting prey so it can descend and take the feast from us risk free..

[@kimlee6643]

You sit down to talk about BB and it *only* lasts two n half hours!? C'mon dudes! Also, thanks.

[@joshk494]

What an absolute delight

[@aarondemiri486]

That sweet bloodborne lore

[@RhiDElton]

Remove outside sources? Tarnished Archaeologist be like ".....nahhh..."

[@ripvanwinkle3432]

I've played most of the game and still don't know wtf is going.

[@jordansebert11]

At 1:15:00 Lokey starts on a dumbass rant about menstreul blood you can skip to 21:00 you're welcome.

[@bigchoppa783]

150 minutes of theories, and not a single mention of Charred Thermos?

[@AesirAesthetics]

Literally mention him in the start

[@Slyslug]

Its funny how much effort has to be put in to poorly reject bloodbornes obvious hp lovecraft references and inspirations.

[@AntiSocialismo50]

Gherman is the orphan of kos.

[@mikehikes710]

Great talk

[@obzen84]

*19th century. Good conversation!

[@edthedungeonmaster1015]

The “It’s all a dream” theory makes more sense if you picture a particular dreamer. What if this is Laurence’s dream? What if the core of the story is Laurence reliving his own trauma through amnesia and conquering it all transforms you into a slug.