Blue Flame Woodgas Stove - Everything Nice Fan Forced design

This is my first attempt at building a wood-gas stove based on the Everything Nice stove design by World Stove. It is like a TLUD but the primary combustion air-flow is supposed to go the opposite direction. For this trial I used paper-pellet kitty litter for fuel, but densly-packed sticks (pencil-size 20mm long) work the same. Note that this stove ironically gets really smokey if the flame blows out, so I still prefer my not-so-blue-flame other stove that is much better behaved. See • Woodgas TLUD stove wit... and • Stainless Steel pot ho...
Refer worldstove.com/... for the original design.

[@beardjuice]

I think a few small 1mm holes on the bottom of the internal can would improve the output. This would give more oxygen to the combustion-zone resulting in a hotter fire. The smoke is then "cracked" at a higher temperature giving a cleaner flame. ...and thanks for the new set-up. i wasn't sure if putting a big can over a smaller can would work. but now i do :)

[@Journeyman-Fixit]

Wow, some great combustion going on here Friend, I'll keep watching and learning. Thanks

[@michaelporter000]

If you don't use a fan, you need larger holes to get enough airflow. The fan makes the flame a bit larger and more stable- e.g. tiny gusts of wind are less likely to blow the flame out or push it around. It's also quicker and easier to start with a fan. A load of fuel lasts around 20 minutes.

[@mashdown3]

Well I made a working glass version today. I got two burns before it cracked.Coals got it. I got some raw footage. Have to edit and upload it yet though. It doesn't support my argument though. I could see no sign of smoke. I'm thinking it is hydrogen, so invisible- or I am wrong about the route. Can't think of the next test just now. Only the outer can was replaced with glass. there may be a way of doing at least part of both- for at least part of a burn, we'll see.

[@waltersaunders7699]

Have you developed this design further? I like the idea that it is a complete gasification, hence the blue flame. A larger stove burning a blue flame would be safe to use inside a home

[@mashdown3]

In my larger natually drafted version you can drop a fresh piece of wood in and see the smoke rise up bit and get sucked downward. Also there are no live coals in the wood when everything is right as there would be if oxygen was getting there. If the bottom holes on a tlud are moved a bit up the side, even angled up, and all else is kept constant performance is improved. On one stove I made, and on a dead calm day in bright sunlight we could see the smoke coming out the bottom holes.

[@mashdown3]

Stir the coals once in a while Tim. You can add some wood during the burn to extend the burn time, but it is touchy and often will put the stove out resulting in a lot of smoke.

[@michaelporter000]

For what it's worth- I never managed to get a blue flame on many tests of a normal TLUD stove- so that is one big difference with this design. If smoke is being drawn up the gap between chambers that would give better mixing and increase the chance of a blue flame. So maybe the flame being blue is the simplest evidence of the down draft in the inner chamber.

[@nonayabiz1]

I think people misunderstand how this stove design functions. Nate at Worldstove referred coaxial gassification. My understanding is that, rather than a substantial bulk flow downward through the fuel, most of the flow is a torroidal flow driven by convection and the air flowing over the lip of the top of the inner can. Some hot gas is pulled down in the center of the gap, pyrolizes the fuel, and rises again at the sides, carrying wood gas to feed the flames.

[@ARMANDALOVERA]

Michael, add copper wire (wool?) on top of the flame to increase heat capacity of your burner.

[@upmperthay]

ARMAND ALOVERA Great idea! 👍

[@michaelporter000]

Thanks for the encouragement - I'm a fan of your work and wish you every success.

[@buzzwerd8093]

Coat the bottom of your pot with soap suds and let them dry on. The fire will soot the suds instead of the pot for much easier cleaning. Might you be able to TEG power the fan with the fire for outdoor use, perhaps using a rechargeable battery to get it started? Also would a platinum wire or screen up where the mixed air reenters to burn or across the hole up top help? In fact a metal/steel screen up top should stop the flame while letting flame hot air pass through.

[@michaelporter000]

I've tried a TEG and gave up- too little power available and you need a heavy heatsink, and, as you pointed out, you still need a battery to get it started. Not sure what to think about the screen idea. I haven't tried that. I am planning to revisit this design soon with a blower (just ordered) instead of a fan to try and generate more venturi vacuum.

[@buzzwerd8093]

Michael Porter The screen idea is from chemistry lab standard practice. The flame from under would not go through but perhaps more interesting, when you pass gas and air through the screen and lit it on the far side, the flame stayed on the far side only. Flame has a charge/electric part to its nature that a conductive screen interacts with. Your little stove is a beautiful app, maybe some tuning where the air from below draws from the inside can or up at the top of that chamber will go farther. Where the fan blows in, does it pressurize the bottom chamber evenly? Suppose the fan blew in from bottom center and the spacer ring had holes? You can maybe shape the upper outer ring air flow space by filleting the corners with mortar and maybe even line the outside wall to prevent heat loss. Same year I first learned about the screens, we distilled wood by packing splints in test tubes that we heated, collecting the gases driven off to condense what we could and fraction the liquid but also there were flammable gases that would not easily condense but burned well. Decades later my uncle who had been through WWII and stayed in Germany a year or so after said he saw Germans run Mercedes diesels on gases driven off coal heated similarly by open fires in containments in the car trunk (English: boot). Germany had fuel rationing then. I asked if it worked well and he said they drove 80 mph down the Autobahn like that, but no idea how far before refuel or what was needed to keep the engine clean. i had read in WWII history of Tiger Tanks "run on steam" near the end of the war when German refineries were all but gone. IMO someone mistook the coal gas system for a steam engine fire box, what they knew. You manage to do much of that without building a hell of a lot of stove which is where I get so much appreciation of what you have achieved!

[@michaelporter000]

It's pretty hard to add any fuel during the burn without it killing the secondary burn and making it just smoke like crazy. It's best to view this as a batch process.

[@michaelporter000]

In this case I used paper kitty-litter pellets. There is no reason for that to include any fire inducer. As for the fan- it may be cheating, but in my woodgas stoves I found it makes for a much improved burn which makes the stove a practical alternatve to other stoves.

[@mashdown3]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you, Michael, but I strongly suspect the World Stove video. I know some of the pellets for wood stoves have. I bought some pellets just to compare in my stoves. They are natural. There is a huge difference in the way they burn compared to twigs. Caused me to make one unusable stove in fact. I understand and do agree about the fan, made a couple myself, but I want a stove that doesn't rely on supplies from town, and I cannot abide the noise. A good TLUD works fine

[@TimpBizkit]

Thanks for the diagram as I was confused as to which way the air travelled through the bottom holes, whether it went into the fire to make it burn a little bit at the base (hot air only in the side walls afterburning the smoke), or whether the holes sucked air up the sidewalls like in this design. I've had trouble with rising carbon dioxide choking the flame as the charcoal builds up. Can you add small bits of wood to keep this going or do you have to relight separate batches.

[@TimpBizkit]

I find that the carbon dioxide released by the charcoal can smother the flame after a while, so needs to be emptied out and start again. It would be good to have a secondary fan for "charcoal burn mode" which puts air in the bottom of the pot.

[@Wclifford7]

I like the design ..no soot as the rocket stove..curve the top of the stove where the flames exit the stove..like a funnel. aerodynamic

[@michaelporter000]

I drilled 2.8mm diam holes spaced with 1.2mm gaps i.e 4mm centres. Now I think that more might be better. The fan is just an ordinary 40mm 5V computer fan. I've tried sticks and paper-based kitty litter pellets. I've also pretty much given up on this design for now. It's a blue flame, but not hot enough so it's slow to cook and too easy for wind to kill the flame and then you get buckets of smoke. My stainless steel woodgas stove works much better.

[@6255805]

這種設計.圖上向下走的熱氣流效果不會增強火勢.若在內殼周圍上下開洞.火勢會更猛.尤其在底部打洞效果會更好.

[@mashdown3]

The fan and deflector are giving you a stong draft on the inner ventuies Michael. I don't like the noise myself. I made one a few years back. Mine ate wood fast too. On the natural draft version there is a minimal draft from the top ventuies to make use of so the relative hole sizes do become more important. If it's lighting OK but burning orange the outer holes are too large 9You need a little suction at the bottom holes. Try plugging a few.

[@michaelporter000]

I've tried this stove a few times. I currently have two problems- firstly it's not hot enough. I've tried doubling the primary combustion air holes but it didn't make much difference. Second is that when secondary combustion stops because of wind or when the fuel runs out it creates heaps of smoke. I try stopping it by putting a covering on it and blocking the inlet air hole but it's awkward. My other TLUD seems more practical. Maybe increasing the venturi air gap will solve both...

[@ThomasGrillo]

This is brilliant! I wonder if a thermocouple could be attached to the stove for powering the fan? Thanks for sharing this.

[@michaelporter000]

I have tried that but it becomes a much heavier unit and was difficult to get enough power compared to a simple battery.

[@ThomasGrillo]

@@michaelporter000 Ah, ok.

[@michaelporter000]

This design will make some soot on the pot if there is a bit of wind. See my other stainless steel design noted in the description for a better one that never makes soot. Other than soot there is certainly no damage to pots.

[@nandagopaliyengar1258]

Wonderful. Blue flame is the goal. You have a wonderful combustion chamber and excellent air flow design. However lets talk about heat loss. If the stove is very hot to the touch. There is a lot of surface area. Consider the heat loss. Can you design another stove for blue flame, min heat loss around the side walls and some convenient way to rid of ash.

[@mashdown3]

That is right Especkman, You can see the smoke rise and get sucked down off a piece of damp wood added during the burn. The cleanest burn is when you get a complete crown of fire. This stove is using pellets-some of which have a fire inducer, and a fan. Both of which I consider cheating and while OK for experimenting are not the goal for me, so the everything nice doesn't qualify. I did post a vid of a glass version. It still doesn't show the gas route as I didn't get it just right though.

[@Ldstormkill1]

Remember guys to keep bottom of pot clean and burn free take liguid soap or a bar and rub bottom of pan and half an inch up sides - when your thru just rinse it off - no black stuff.----- Good job on stove. Michael

[@BosisofSweden]

How about the pots? If you were to use like a Trangia aluminium pot - what would that do for the boiling time?

[@UNIVERSITYHI]

This is clever. The blue flame will do some good cooking.

[@mellifluouschinook]

theres no holes in the bottom? and theres no auto weld? great design ... it could only be better with some castable ceramic materials maybe and/or a rpm control on the motor

[@majharulislam5950]

Great idea. Excellent experiments.

[@Redarkrome]

Hi, it's possibile to see iside constraction for understand well how to do. Tanks in advance and my compliments for cheap and very good project. Dario

[@mashdown3]

Here is a one time burn glass one made with mason jars. You tube- Glass Wood Gas Stove. It's not drafting quite right though. The smoke is going up the center. I should try again. I don't know castable ceramic Jackson. Can it be clear. Where might I find it? I was thinking tempered glass, but jars were handy for experimenting. It's not meant as a stove to use, just to see.

[@kinganthonyx]

Very impressive

[@michaelporter000]

I think the CO would be burnt, but I've never been confident enough to try it indoors - I don't think it's worth taking any unnecessary risk with carbon monoxide.

[@michaelporter000]

Just do a search for online computer shops or that popular auction site for a 4cm or 40mm computer fan and make sure it runs on 5 volt (most are 12V). Should cost around $8. I bought a battery holder and plugs from a local electronics shop, and I have now made a nice cowling out of aluminium.

[@MrJoeyBoombotz]

What kind of flame do you get if you don't use the fan? How long does one load of wood or pellets last?

[@kinmanyuen]

wonderfull!. Would it work if you replace the fan with a hose where you can exhale your breathing into it?

[@thomasrufer6206]

I mean plans with sizes of the gaps and holes.... Seems like those proportions are quite important...

[@Blucomb]

Obviously that was my opinion, based on what I observed. May I can ask directly to worldstove, they certainly have studied this kind of stoves better than me. Anyway I think that to question these things is very important. Thank you so much..

[@michaelporter000]

I don't have any proof. I tried to do some tests with smoke when the stove was empty and I couldn't verify it, but in that test there was no heat so the conditions were very different. I'm really relying on the claims by worldstove.

[@javiermontero4051]

Hi, Michael. This is a very promising and exciting project. Where you able to tune this Blue Flame Wood Gas Stove to improve burning performance and heat output? Thank you for all you share, which sparks my curiosity and imagination.

[@mashdown3]

The blue flame is hydrogen burning, so yes Michael it is evidence of pryalisis occuring, hence a downdraft. at the same time you'll notice the fire forms a crown instead of a hollow cylinder, no live coals in the wood and no smoke.

[@ilsignormariorossi]

Impressive! But does the flame ruin the pot bottom...?

[@rafffe]

If there is unburnt gases, smoke, inbetween the walls it proves the venturi effect. try lifting the lid fast and look for smoke.

[@Blucomb]

Hi Michael, I have been studying this kind of stoves for 2 years, especially natural draft systems. In all the tests i made it results that there is no down draft in the inner chamber. So I think that also EverithingNice is a normal TLUD. Do you have any proof of the downward draft in the inner chamber? For example it can be analyzed the gas flowing in the gap. I think that a real proof is very important ,all I want to understand the truth, I hope you can help me. Thank you..

[@ozwzrd]

The large pot dissipates a lot of heat that would otherwise go to boiling the water due to the excessive surface area.

[@michaelporter000]

Yes - I agree. The smaller the pot, the better!

[@ntsanjeewadesilva5392]

Hi bro why u didn't upgrade this blue fire project pls

[@michaelporter000]

This blue flame stove didn't work very well for me. The flame was too easy to blow out and didn't last as long or burn as hot as other stove designs I experimented with. The flame was pretty but the stove was a fail in my opinion. I tried making it better with a number of different modifications but they were all worse.

[@michaelporter000]

Ok. It is probably possible to make one without a fan- but for me, and with such a small stove, the fan makes it much easier to make a successful stove that doesn't blacken the pot. Also- you can barely hear this fan- certainly not above the noise of boiling, for example. I few times I've had to stick my finger in the fan blades to confirm it was spinning :)

[@joeadamson5928]

Hi Michael your flame is lovely! No joke, I get soo much yellow flame from my copy of this design, however I think it mght be caused by the relative incorrect diameters of the primary and secondary air holes... (My current ratio is 1 to 2 top to bottom, which I'm guessing is the source of the yellow flames feeding on the air entering the bottom holes rather than producing the negative air you say is related to the flap position. Did you just happen to drill the particular hole sizes and never alter the relative size volumes top to bottom, or have to experiment with them ? and/or only have to bend up the flap to achieve a negative air flow ?

[@michaelporter000]

It's been a while since I made this, but I had found a video that suggested a 5:1 ratio of air flows required hence 5:1 ratio of total hole area (area = pi x radius squared). That's always my starting point. i.e. 5 times more air out the top holes than through the bottom holes. Then it is trial and error to adjust from there till it works well. It is all about the bottom holes only being enough to create smoke, and then the top holes are for burning the smoke. The reason this design makes the blue flame is because the air flows down through the centre of the combustion chamber instead of flowing up. This is because of the narrow gap at the bottom which creates a vacuum by venturi. I ended up giving up on this design because it was too unstable - i.e. it was too easy to suddenly turn from a nice blue flame to making heaps of smoke.

[@thomasrufer6206]

Do you have plans somewhere? Id like to try it and maybe improve on it by testing around...

[@viswasai2000]

mr.michael this design is very good. please tell us construction of stove. i want to make this. i am interested for this blue flame.

[@WorldStove]

wonderful video and nice demo.

[@czystespalanietv]

Hi Michael.., Because I specialize in the topic... "clean and full wood burning with a blue flame" - I must point out two errors in your interpretation of what you are informing... : 1. the direction of the pyrolysis gas cycle is the opposite... (than what you drew). The direction is consistent with the convection of lifting hot gases. There are no conditions for the extraction of pyrolysis gases by secondary air. There are no conditions to conclude that it exists the effect of a vacuum suction nozzle... (according to the Bernoulli equation or the Venturi nozzle). 2. In the blue flame - the Reduction Process does not have... (which produces hot yellow soot - yellow flame). Sooty on your pot - comes from... : a.) - yellow flame.., b.) - at the very end of combustion... (end of pyrolysis) - then charcoal emits smoke residues from tarry fractions. Remember... in a blue flame - you never have this soot...!!! Regards.., Stanisław... (from Poland)

[@michaelporter000]

I don't want to get into an argument, but the whole point of this design is that the air-flow direction is reversed from a normal TLUD design. The reversal of airflow happens because the fan-forced combustion air is forced through a narrow slit which produces a vacuum to suck in the smoke from the bottom of the combustion chamber. This leads to better mixing of air and smoke which results in the blue flame. You can't see on camera, but you can see smoke being drawn down through the combustion chamber. Also, this design is not very practical and doesn't work as well as my other standard forced air designs. I will concede that there is a small chance I am mistaken about its operation as it is hard to develop the vacuum and my subsequent attempts to improve this using a more traditional venturi design have failed.

[@czystespalanietv]

@@michaelporter000 Dear Michael.., your next two interpretational errors... : 1. with gas flow - according to your sketch... (here you have no rule for the Venturi nozzle).., 2. necessary conditions that must be met... (according to Science - "Combustion Stoichiometry") - to get blue flame when burning wood... For those interested in these topics - my Blog-Forum ... serves everyone... (with extensive "Bibliography") Best regards ... - Stanisław... ("Ranger") czystespalanie.info

[@michaelporter000]

@@czystespalanietv Thanks for your input

[@czystespalanietv]

@@michaelporter000 Michael.., I do not think that these two above entries - will verify your established beliefs about the Process Conditions of the combustion of non-degassed fuels - such as wood. And - construction conditions that must be met for the simultaneous combustion of pyrolysis gases and degassed charcoal. Before I launched my Blog-Forum.., I made and checked many versions of stoves... (also TLUDs). I analyzed the simplest constructions, the ones you see here... : czystespalanie.info/bibliography/videos/ Based on the Theory of Combustion... (and these design solutions) - I determined several points that must be met to ensure combustion with flames from blue to transparent-blue... (without yellow flame and without smoke at the finish of combustion). By recommending you an analysis of these films - I will be interested in your new and verified Conclusions. If you feel like later - we can both compare the convergence... (or divergence) - of our insights... Wishing you success - best regards... "Ranger" Postscriptum.., For the Venturi nozzle effect to occur - conditions must be created - especially behind the constriction - the expansion nozzle (not the suppression at the outlet). czystespalanie.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Przekr%C3%B3j-zw%C4%99%C5%BCki.pdf This film is an excellent example... : kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4mwlnqZj6qMjpI Draw your attention (at the end of the movie) - to the effect after increasing the flow with primary air and return with a decrease in this air. What are the conclusions...???

[@MrSheeshy]

Painting the fan hub with a "liquid paper" stripe or other contrasting color (nail polish, whatever) will let you see if it is spinning easily. Try not to imbalance it badly though :)

[@piggiesrsmoken]

the fan kind of defeats the purpose of the technology its ok if you have electricity but if not available then what

[@nandagopaliyengar1258]

My dear the fan provides secondary air flow. Forget electricity. We can design a stove with a peltier unit to run the fan. Using wood with a blue flame is the goal here.

[@charmapz4212]

Any updated version?

[@michaelporter000]

The blue flame design didn't work very well because wind would blow it out too easy. This is better kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5e8YpKsbcaBi9E

[@Tentcampinghq]

Nice set up! well done.

[@davidrajdavidraj]

Very good

[@songinoandi]

hey michael, i love this flame!great work. some questions here, because im playing around with the everything nice-design aswell: what kind of fan are you using? what wind of fuel are you using especially? how many holes of which size at what heigth did you drill in the inner chamber? ... ouf, lots of questions...hope you dont mind answering all of them cheers

[@michaelporter000]

Download world stove's design from their website. The link is in the video description above.

[@mashdown3]

I uploaded a video on a smsll stove yesterday but can't seem to get a link here. Try searching wood gas backpacking stove or looking on my channel.

[@morristhecat4061]

is it safe to burn that inside? Woodgas has a lot of carbon monoxide in it. If it is not all combusted then it could be dangerous.

[@jashvantbhaidarji8734]

plese make it without fen

[@michaelfilimon980]

So this is safe to use inside without carbon monoxide issues?

[@michaelfilimon980]

I see. I have never seen this in the videos, so (and perdon if I miss the obvious) this stove should not make any smoke?

[@michaelporter000]

That's impressive. It's much larger than any I've built. This stuff gets addictive doesn't it? My favourite is a small stainless steel unit that I take camping, and uses a cupful of sticks to burn for 20 minutes and boil 2 cups of water in a few minutes. Enter watch?v=ufY1_v8aNUo for that one.

[@1hhenry]

Well done !

[@jacobthomas5686]

nice experimental stove!

[@mellifluouschinook]

actually , some of us aren't laughing... you could use castable high temp ceramic ( its pretty cheap) and poor it on/in.around pyrex

[@alnoor970]

good job man. where can buy this fan ?

[@zulfiqarkd]

You may use your old PC fan

[@jmpmcd]

if yor not burning your CO off then your flame burns yellow

[@upmperthay]

Kool dude!! You must be an ENTP, or very close to one. :-)

[@impertinente31]

Fantastico!!!ma si comprano e dove già fatte ?

[@StefanoRovere]

C'e` un motivo per cui le stufe a gas di legna si vedono solo in progetti fai da te: producono quantità` industriali di monossido di carbonio nel processo di gasificazione, ergo o se ne usa una di dimensioni minime, o e` meglio usarla solo all'esterno

[@impertinente31]

Ho letto invece il contrario.... Che sono "pulite"...speriamo facciano stufe a pellets con il sistema pirolitico...

[@impertinente31]

Per ora ho visto solo stufe enormi e esteticamente non valide a fiamma inversa...

[@StefanoRovere]

domenico d'Onofrio Chiaro, purtroppo devono essere stagne e di necessita` complesse, di sicuro non hanno nulla a che vedere con questo fornelletto:)... Tra parentesi, la manutenzione ordinaria richiede un livello di pignoleria allucinante per mantenerle efficienti

[@impertinente31]

Grazie...Sei stato esaustivo...terremo d'occhio il web....ciò che oggi è impossibile può diventare una realtà domani...intanto mi faccio fare dal fabbro il fornelletto!!!

[@mashdown3]

The venturi efect is real enough. Actually your test is close. One should see soot build up between the cans on a well used stove. I've looked. it ain't there. I'm considering tring to see if I can't make one out of glass (don't laugh so fast)

[@trumpsahead]

I'm no scientist but looks really good. BUT please replace that round grate under your water pot or sooner or later you will have a severe accident. Oh, you did, good.

[@RvaninaVpered]

nice

[@rodolfotangano4353]

Genial .

[@sdelcano]

Michael, Jolly good! Thanks for sharing your experiment. You might want to use 50 cents coins, instead. Hahaha.

[@Radoslaw731]

Dont like it. I rather have my Tomshoo wood gas stove

[@Radoslaw731]

This is not very eficient 😄😃😆15 minutes and no boil, thats a joke not a stove 😆😃😄😂🤣. My Tomshoo wood gas stove boiles 500ml of water in 3,5 minutes so is my Trangia alcohol stove