Bmw dealership blunder? Incompetence?

In this video we diagnose a bmw that has been to a dealership and an independent workshop, Parts were changed but no fix!
Are we able to find the real cause?
Check out my new website ; www.diagnosedan.com
For the Topdon tool used in the
video:
www.topdon.us/discount/DIAGNO... the price of Phoenix Max will be 10% OFF by clicking the US link
10% OFF EU purchase link: eu.topdon.com/products/phoeni...
Uk : www.diagnosticconnections.co.uk/
For business inquiries ( not for technical questions); [e-mail]

[@Diagnosedan]

Check out my new website ; www.diagnosedan.com For the Topdon tool used in the video: www.topdon.us/discount/DIAGNO... the price of Phoenix Max will be 10% OFF by clicking the US link 10% OFF EU purchase link: eu.topdon.com/products/phoeni... Uk : www.diagnosticconnections.co.uk/

[@shinishini6047]

Dan have you considered selling your course on udemy so people can learn and be able to get into this type of business

[@SerbanCMusca-ut8ny]

There seems to be something wrong with the link preceded by "10% OFF EU purchase link", it brings up a 404 page.

[@fretlessfender]

Is this getting a follow up? Engine still not running?

[@S.F.I.]

@@fretlessfendercurios also if it gonna work again

[@garrysmith4454]

Crank angle sensor?

[@alphaomega5721]

Majority of dealerships are now staffed with replacement technicians, not analysts.

[@volvo24091]

Replacement specialists, not technicians

[@davidbennett8707]

Basically m8 you aren't given any time to diagnosis problem properly because of bullshit times that your given to diagnosis a fault 1/2hr normal that's all warranty will pay you that's why you go to a tsb if it say change a part then you do it because you will get paid for fitting that, I agree it a shit show blame dealership managers about bullshit ridiculous targets, the techs are sick of it, that's why most techs want to get out of this shit trade. Paying for paper pushers and bullshit mindless service adviser normal women that knows Jack shit but looks pleasing to the eye

[@alphaomega5721]

@@volvo24091 You are correct. Not technicians....

[@wasgij03]

Most dealerships are filed with staff that haven't been sent to the correct training.

[@2nickles647]

I agree. It's just staff. But are Parts changers. The more parts he or she changed it's ok. Charge it to the customer.

[@MattyEngland]

Another really interesting one. I didn't realise the HPFP had that kind of electronic control valve on it, but makes complete sense. When the other garage says they checked the timing, I think they mean they checked the workshop clock and decided it was time to go home 😂

[@Czechbound]

Yes, it was time to saddle up their horses. What a bunch of cowboys !

[@BertGraef]

that is so low........lol

[@darkiee69]

The dealership erased the codes, it wasn't showing a timing code = Timing is good..

[@atrakos]

Actually, they checked their clock and decided it was time to send it to Dan...

[@Diagnosedan]

Ha ha ha😂😂😂😂

[@htownblue11]

Dan is a master at his craft. Next level. Changing parts is a skill in itself, but truly diagnosing these vehicles is a “WNL” WHOLE ‘NOTHER LEVEL”. Dan is a blessing to his customers for sure.

[@legioner9]

So true. Well said.

[@ralfsautomotive]

That is basic diagnostics nothing special at all. How in the world a dealership in 2023 don't or cannot use a scope is mindboggling. I guess that is part of why mechanics all over the world get such a bad rep.

[@Blazer02LS]

@@ralfsautomotive I went to a OE sponsored event at a nearby dealer about a year ago and during the class they were talking about cam/crank correlation. I answered that the easy way to confirm the problem was to use a scope and look at the waveforms. The instructor then said, We don't use scopes as they are not a reliable diagnostic tool !!!

[@Diagnosedan]

Actually i would expect most technicians to find this fault

[@GT_177]

My guess is nobody else checked the timing. Maybe someone said they did but the fact was they didn't have a scope or they had one but nobody ever used it and they couldn't be bothered to take the cam cover off.

[@krijn438]

Hi Dan, thanx for your clear diagnosis on our car!! And also thanx for your quick reply on our additional questions. Clearly the BMW dealer (Dusseldorp Zwolle) needs to do some extra learning on diagnostics. Let’s hope the mechanical damage is not too severe. 🙏🏻

[@Diagnosedan]

I certainly hope the damage not to bad🤞 Thank you very much!!

[@slacko1971]

It must be really cool to watch a video on the diagnosis of your own vehicle. Fingers crossed for your engine.

[@Diagnosedan]

​@@slacko1971or scary😂

[@broken12367]

Please keep us updated on the cost if possible

[@reelheel5919]

Hope the engine was still under warranty 😬

[@Sperminator10000]

If dealerships start recommending parts that aren't the issue. The parts should be free. A dealership should be the experts of their own cars. Not just another part replacer. I thought that was the reason they charge so much more?

[@2nickles647]

Dealership don't repair the vehicle. Don't blame the dealership. The dealership..for instance Mercedes. They need to hire and train the Auto mechanics to do the jobs properly. This cost money and time to train. Technician is an over used term. Just because you went to a school doesn't make you a Technician. A technician means you are hired to diagnose anything that you are given. Do the job correctly.

[@MrJimmy3459]

Dealerships are becoming more and more of a joke these days

[@jamiuajasa2006]

Most of dealerships don’t employ the right person to their company, most of them are employe people by hands to hands, or their relatives. Is very ridiculous to hear such a thing that a dealership company that specialist on a particular car can’t diagnose a low fuel pump before they replace it.😮 before I watch the video I told someone near me that the problem of this car might be incorrect of timing.

[@Czechbound]

To me, you're paying for the thing to be fixed. If the don't fix it, they shouldn't expect to be paid. Put back the old parts. Keep the new ones. Give me my broken car back for free.

[@johnnyblue4799]

@@2nickles647 Of course the dealership is to blame. They do the hiring, they should make sure the mechanics are properly trained.

[@thomasherring6640]

I had no idea how fuel pressure was controlled with mechanical high pressure pumps. Thanks for the super informative video!

[@Diagnosedan]

My pleasure

[@tempest411]

This is true here, but is not the case with all engines.

[@alastairmackay4861]

having worked and managed in dealerships i can say that the incompetence is created by the continually increasing targets that are set and the need for "efficiency" over quality of service. Most of the techs want to do a good job but are just not given the chance

[@2nickles647]

Or the training Sir

[@alastairmackay4861]

@@2nickles647 agreed

[@Garth2011]

Owners/managers of dealerships are just greedy since they have huge spending habits that need to be fed by the service department. Poor mechanics or they are good ones being lazy to help the service writer build up the repair bills.

[@Diagnosedan]

I have also seen that and thats definitely true in some cases!

[@paultitley5805]

Seems to be life les by greed and bean counters

[@hugostiglitz6914]

In 30 years there's going to be no classic cars from this era. The manufacturers have made them too complicated for the average mechanic to fix economically. Most of the complexity has little or no function except to ensure the car ends up back at the dealer more often then it normally would need to.

[@Diagnosedan]

I agree no classics are made at the moment

[@makil4924]

Learned so much from your channel. I could watch your videos all day long, far best automotive diagnostic channel on yt.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!!!

[@DTEAuto]

Great walk along, and great diagnostic steps! I have had plenty of N20 BMW's that do the same and never log timing codes, it always blows me away. P.S: I understand that you stated this is an interference motor.... but I can tell you now that from the sound of it and from the scope capture there is no valve damage. The fact that both valves are able to seal some psi to create the towers and then also have the ability to release psi, means they all can seal properly and relief properly, meaning all have good contact on their seats just all timed incorrectly, hence the same sounding cranking noise. If you were to do relative compression with no sync, you would get all even humps and not ever realize that the humps are the same but lower psi from being out of time. Again, even if you were to add an ignition sync (at least with the N20's) it some how on bmw's can still show up proper location on relative compression capture, so you would be lost thinking it is in time based off relative compression test and just not ever know that it is off time and the humps are just lower than desired compression humps. You would have to take a physical psi measurement to realize. Don't' ask me how I know, I learned the hard way on one lol. thanks for sharing as always. 👍👍

[@Diagnosedan]

I've also learned the hard way😉 And i know from previous videos that people are going to ask in the comments about it being an interference engine so i put a text in the screen. And since i didn't diagnose any further i dont know if there is any damage for sure. Thanks for the Great comment and feedback 👍

[@DTEAuto]

@@Diagnosedan thanks, and thank you for sharing the great content as always👍

[@KLeeson]

Loved it, the off shoots, directions you can get led down the rabbit holes via timing being off is very interesting to know, A great refresher, as this stuff doesn't always pop up often, Always greatfull for the greater learning, And knowledge you teach us, I remember the other bmw with disel injector effecting high fuel pressure side of things, in fuel rail, but the garage replaced low pressure fuel pump, Cause and effect. Thank you Dan, for sharing, if I could learn something like this everyday, very happy, cheers.

[@cullenmiller8170]

Nice video and great diagnosis. Wow, that dealership tech was terrible. When you start asking the customer what part they should replace next you know they have no idea what they are doing. Very sad.

[@Diagnosedan]

Unfortunately true but also very uncommon

[@strangermaniacos686]

Customer should have replied : Replace the whole car !!!

[@Mr.Riffian]

BMW Germany should withdraw the rights to be a dealer from this dealer.

[@jeremymartin980]

Another great video Dan. Did anyone think that the spark was a bit intermittent? Would be interesting to see a waveform of primary ignition against crank sensor.

[@darrenhearn1365]

Yeah, I thought it was a bit erratic !

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes, i noticed that. That is a clue the engine has problems to determine the timing of the spark

[@mmichaeldonavon]

I saw that also.

[@octaviansorescu7427]

The best Mechatronist I have seen so far!!! Once you see Dan at work, you fall in love and want a job like this. Well done Dan! Good luck!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!

[@Richie-C]

Dans a genius

[@bigdog7813]

Get video Dan! Not many auto repair technicians holding jobs today have been formally trained to perform real analytical diagnostic procedures. They are simply parts-swappers - dealerships and indies alike. Perhaps this is the fault of particular dealerships or indies that do not require this skill level, or do not want to pay for it. I suspect the latter in most cases. It is refreshing to follow your approach to correctly diagnosing problems, seeking the root cause and not getting caught fixing symptoms. Your approach to diagnosing these problems reminds me a lot of how Ivan at Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics approaches similar issues. Thank you for taking the time to share these experiences with the community and hopefully some of those in the community that are professional wrenchers will take away some valuable lessons that they can apply. Cheers!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for the great comment!

[@stevebot]

Thanks for running through that diagnosis, definitely a gotcha on the fuel pressure thing. How that timing issue was missed by two shops is amazing, it cranks way too fast, I would have instantly done a compression check.

[@Rareparrot]

Fascinating as always, thanks Dan. I'm no expert but the spark looked a bit inconsistent too. Appreciate all the detailed explanations!! Yesterday a random lady at a shopping center asked me to help remove the ignition key from her hire car as it was "stuck". After trying to move the steering wheel to jiggle the steering lock the key was in fact locked in. She had stopped the car in drive, (automatic) so I shifted it to park and voila the key came out. I'm only used to old cars Lol. Mine is 2005.

[@jordansullivan3697]

This is an amazing learning video and great for me as a Chrysler technician, they’re starting to use the new designed 2.0L turbo in a variety of vehicles, and the high pressure pump solenoid operates exactly like this! And by reading online, I’m hearing they’re becoming prone to having timing issues. So this is very good information and a great educational video. Thanks again Dan!

[@Diagnosedan]

The fuel prices here in Europe are twice as high as in the states. Fuel prices are also getting higher in the States so you'll start to see more small engines. People want great fuel economy but they also want a powerful engine. The combi of a small engine with high power that still meets all environmental standards means the engine gets less reliable. You'll see the same problems in your workshop that we see here.

[@SKIPWIRE1]

Thanks Dan for another educational diagnostic video. Lessons learned; validate problem, don't believe anything, good tools make a difference, BMW interference engines are expensive to replace.

[@khalidacosta7133]

ALL modern engines are interference engines (2000 onwards). Timing belts are cheaper, more fuel efficient but require replacement meaning it has to be accessible. So manufacturers use chains but try to make fuel efficient and lower cost by reducing plate thickness etc. To the point, I would rather have a belt engine than chain now, even PSA 1.2 wet belt. Chains are very expensive to replace and need replacing around the same time as a belt anyway.

[@Diagnosedan]

​@@khalidacosta7133not all!

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes unfortunately for the customer not cheap 😬

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Well done, Dan! The engine seemed to be turning over to fast when you cranked it. That lead to me thinking it's "timing" in the old sense of valve vs piston positions. It's nice watching you use all the neat diagnostic tools to find the problem. Thanks for another interesting video.

[@MiguelDiaz-zk8dk]

Dan needs to become a consultant and teacher. He diagnosed the vehicle beyond what the DTC codes and other shops wrote up. He strayed from scratch and didn’t allow other to mislead him. We need more people with the understanding of how things work and the order of operations. Schools are not teaching problem solving they want the techs to rely on the stored codes in the computer. First time coming across this Channel and I am now subscribed. 👍🏽 great job. I am not a master tech or even a tech by trade but with what my father taught me and my understanding of how things work I have been able to do 90%+ of repairs and maintenance on all my vehicles and toys. I have even had to correct the work of shops because the techs are so rushed they don’t secure or place everything back in it’s place and I hear or see it once I am back home and it’s easier to just do it my self than go back waste time fuel and energy teaching someone their job. I document and send and email.

[@Nico_335i_DCT]

OMG Dan. That's a big dealership fail. 100% sure there were "timing off" codes while the car was stranded! And the second shop made the same mistake too. Unbelievable! And they know at the dealership the N13 does have timing chain problems. In my opinion, BMW 4 cylinders have been bad engines since 2004. It started at the N46. But the B48 and the B46( B58 minus 2 cylinders)are a lot better engines, finally. And I know there were bugs in some ECU's. My 2009 335i has a permanent 2AAF shadow code. I replaced the low-pressure fuel pump, the low-pressure fuel sensor (with the upgraded one), and the fuel control unit in the tank too. The car runs great and the low-pressure fuel is okay, when monitoring on the PC, but still has the same shadow code. The car runs great, no problems. Great job Dan. Have a good one and thanks for sharing. Dutch regards Nico.

[@Diagnosedan]

Hi Nico, bmw should have stuck to those beautiful straight 6 cilinder engines. I know thats outdated with the current fuel prices and environmental rules here in Europe but those were great engines

[@paulhutchins6019]

Another very tricky one Diagnosed with Champion diagnostic work. Well done Dan 🎉

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks Paul!

[@Teddykhil]

I'm not as educated with these types of engines and systems, I'm old school, BUT, I do understand what and how you diagnosed the faults. YOU my friend should be closing down the dealerships and put YOUR sign out the front. YOU are the trained mechanic that knows how to work on these types of faults, and engines. I followed your system of fault finding, as I was taught in the Army (RACT = Royal Australian Corps of Transport), respectively, not your time from, but mine was old school. As you also said, you MUST have Spark, Fuel, Timing, a motor should start if these 3 simple things are in order displaying, or testing to be GOOD. Well done Dan, you are worth 100% against any workshop. Thanks for the upload video. Cheers Teddy.

[@JimNichols]

You are without a doubt a very thorough and knowledgeable technician. Well versed in the systems and nuances of computer controlled interfaces in vehicles of today. Amazing to watch you work through a diagnosis. Your videography is spot on as is the scripting, editing and presentation of subject matter to your target audience. All around an amazing channel sir. A 1000 years ago I was a technician in a German automobile dealership and was pretty good at my trade, times changed and I moved to locomotives to fill the need to be covered in grease and grime for a living. Now I live vicariously through channels like this one to supply my need for slipped wrenches causing a visit to the ER for stitches. Not that my subscribing makes a lot of difference to your already well tractioned channel, I have and will enjoy your overly energetic explanations of electro-mechanical interactions and diagnostic techniques.. :)

[@garybrown5500]

That was a sneaky one! To me the engine sounded pretty good on cranking. Just goes to show never assume anything.

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes to be honest it sounded pretty ok to me!

[@marknelson8724]

It sounded so good when cranked, that I am actually hopeful that it can be fixed rather than replaced.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great diagnosis, Dan! I liked the explanation of how timing can drastically affect GDI fuel pressure. Have seen this several times and it can definitely be confusing to pinpoint 😁 Have you tried the PHAD Pressure Transducer yet? Easier to use than Pico 😉

[@Diagnosedan]

Hi Ivan the next time i'll need to do a pressure test i'll certainly use your sensor💪

[@rhysnicholson4860]

I’ve seen plenty of vehicles over the last 24 years or so in the repair trade that have come from both Dealership and independent repair shops with a list of tests and parts replaced and charged for, what I’ve learned over the years and it’s served me well, and that’s disregard what tests have been done in till you’ve done them yourself. I once had a vehicle in and had to speak with the previous repairer about diagnostics that had been done and they couldn’t tell me about what they’d done because they didn’t actually do what had been charged for. It was my job then to convince the customer of my findings it was almost like they didn’t believe me because of what the previous repairer had told them.

[@dyankopetkov9056]

I am wondering, why there was no error about bad timing. When the chain guide went off, it must have triggered an error. Do you think the dealership deleted it without paying attention?

[@Diagnosedan]

The owner of the car showed me a scanraport from the roadside assistance and there were timing faults stored

[@Retirement_Life]

Wow! What an interesting and educational video. Who would have thought how interconnected all these systems have become! If I was starting out in auto-mechanics, I would hope I would have someone like Dan to teach me! 👏👏👏

[@Diagnosedan]

You can always watch my videos 😂 Glad you like them!

[@michaeltutty1540]

For 20 years I was working as night security in the film business. One day there was an articulated lorry that would not start. The truck had been serviced the week before, including an oil change. When the mobile mechanic got there he found the trouble immediately. The oil level was down by 5 quarts. On that engine the fuel pump is mechanical and pressure from that moves the fuel into the engine.

[@jamestamu83]

I certainly can't diagnose to your level, but as a weekend mechanic I know enough to check spark, air, and fuel. I'm completely shocked that the dealership and independent shop didn't squirt starting fluid into the air intake to see if the engine would fire. That is such a basic troubleshooting tip, and probably would have led them in the right direction. Thanks for a great video; learned a lot as always.

[@diederikdevries]

Very happy to see that you are more and more explaining stuff. So the diagnosis is great, but then also *LEARNING* why stuff doesn't work is next level. Keep up the good work!

[@Poanoofd]

for the timing being that far off it's weird because it sounded pretty good turning over. You are a true master dan! When it didn't start on the startpilot i was puzzled and didn't know what i would do next. grtz

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes the engine sounded pretty decent actually, that why i didn't expect a timing problem right away

[@shaun2072]

At least in the Minis, the N13 vacuum pump can seize and snap the camshaft in half. That's what I initially guessed was going on. However I learnt something interesting I didn't know about high pressure pumps! I guess the other shop checks timing by using 'the force'. Excellent work as always @Dan.

[@Diagnosedan]

May the force be with them😂

[@justrolledintotheshop]

This engine looks very similar to the N18B16 we have in the USA in mini coopers. The timing chain guides break very often and are a chronic issue on these cars. We had one last week that ran poorly and another shop told the customer it was due to "bad engine software" which caused misfires at idle. We popped the valve cover to verify timing and the upper guide was broken like this and the intake cam was 1 tooth off. The "other shop" wasted $1500 on useless chemical carbon cleaning the valves and even installed a new timing chain tensioner which they left loose/leaking- essentially resolving nothing!

[@johnthebimmerman1406]

Had knocking noise in the front of my f10 525d. After spending one hour looking for it, the technicians diagnosed a worn steering rack. 2.5k to replace it. I called it B.S. and got a second opinion at an independent, it was a loose control arm bolt. I would have found it myself if I had access to a lift. I wondered how many other customers were told similar bull and accepted it.

[@Diagnosedan]

We'll never know😂

[@Tony-rl2fr]

Plain and simple, you Dan, are brilliant. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to educate us. You rock!

[@Diagnosedan]

Its a pleasure 😁

[@MrByootox]

Common rail diesels have worked this way for decades now. Effectively an inlet metering valve. Another great and educational video Dan ☺️👍

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks, yes its similar to diesels!

[@sohaibbukhari8091]

I was randomly checking info codes for my e65 730d and came across Dan's indepth knowledgeable knowledge where certain parties would miss diagnosis issues which leads for poor customer paying more and still having the problem, I found your video an eye opener, the go to guy mission impossible 👏

[@stevo3644]

This could of been easily diagnosed by the use of a vacuum gauge. If the timing is correct cranking vacuum will be around 3-5 inches of vacuum. If timing is off vacuum will generally be between 0 and 1 inches of vacuum. Having said that Dan is a legend and wonderful to watch.

[@roymakel]

Wow, we really need more of these videos. What a craftmanship of Dan! Great job, keep it going, love your videos.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!

[@twiggy27111976]

Diagnose Dan said in a really polite way, “your engine’s f**ked mate” 😂

[@Diagnosedan]

Kinda😂

[@MrFryfish]

What a professional mechanic! This is exactly what we need to understand that being a mechanic does NOT means parts replacement only..

[@Diagnosedan]

Exactly!

[@user-pm5un3xl6e]

sorry for my English, you are one of the best technicians in the world for me, I think you suspect from the beginning that it was a bad timing chain. thanks for shared with us step by step.have a nice day😅

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for your nice comment

[@DavidSuttoninSpain]

It appears that those very expensively trained mechanics are not doing their jobs correctly, well done Dan for sorting this one out for those guys.

[@slacko1971]

That's part of the problem,dealerships don't want to invest in training and this is the result. When I started at a main dealer as an apprentice (BMW incidentally) we had fantastic factory training, I was sent away to BMW for a week at a time several times a year and moved around the workshop between all the different techs. If there was ever any downtime we watched training videos and had to watch at least 1 a week. As the years went by the training got less and less with various manufactures. I now work roadside and the training is complete garbage,the only way I can possibly even stay remotely current is by doing my own research online, If I complain to management I am told "you don't need training your fix rate is good" which personally I think is a terrible way to look at things. I'm just glad I'm nearing the end of my working time because as cars get more and more complex and the dealers invest less and less this sort of issue is going to become more common. Great news for guys like Dan though.

[@Diagnosedan]

Maybe it was the technicians first day😉

[@mrblonde2013]

Thanks Dan for putting this out. Hopefully it will inspire more people to learn more about diagnostics on cars.

[@Diagnosedan]

Lets hope so!

[@richardbeckwith4545]

The only question I have is, how can you be such an amazing diagnostic technician, AND also be such a great presenter? I could watch your videos all day long and would never get bored.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thats great to hear, thank you!

[@DisenyDreams]

Great work, Dan. I am amazed by how many dealers/independents don't do their basic checks. I've so some many places go in to deep first. Great channel 👍🔧🔨

[@trevormansfield6740]

Dan, I only wish I knew half of what you do. An excellent video. Would you consider doing a tutorial on basic oscilloscope use. I’m way behind with them and most I’ve watched are unclear.

[@Diagnosedan]

Maybe one day😁

[@elcheapo5302]

Dan, that was a brilliant diagnosis. And you explained it fantastically as well. Bravo, sir!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you very much

[@DanniV8]

I work at a BMW dealership and got a diesel car in. It had some work done at our shop a week earlier, and on the 2nd day after that visit, the engine started running rough on startup, then died and didn't turn back on. The car was towed in and, like this one, there were no fault codes for the engine. I did the basic tests, reading fuel pressure, checking if it had the correct fuel and checking the airmass system including EGR system. Everything checked out. Even tried removing exhaust sensors before DPF to check if it was blocked. I also removed a sensor from the intake manifold to spray in some silicone spray to see if the engine at least tried running on it. What I noticed was there was actually more smoke coming from the intake manifold than the exhaust manifold. Started to look more and more like timing but the diagnostic software even in expert mode said that camshaft and crankshaft synchronization was OK. Still, I removed the camshaft sensor and was able to see through that hole that the camshaft was spinning. I still suspected timing because nothing else could explain this behaviour other than timing. So I got permission to remove the valve cover and manually check the timing. And when I did, I immediately saw that 7 of the 8 rocker arms on the intake camshaft were broken and had fallen off. The customer was notified and he refused further work so I didn't finish checking by how much the timing was off. Needless to say, the work done the week earlier was completely unrelated to the timing, just bad luck. What this, and your video, reminded me of, is that we cannot put too much trust in the computers. A large majority of the time, the computers are right and guide us to correct diagnosis's, but we always have to use our common sense and knowledge of how engines work to confirm what the computers are telling us (or not telling us), in order to prevent unnecessary parts replacements. Like in both of these cases, mine and yours, where the computer does not report the timing to be off even while it most certainly is.

[@Diagnosedan]

Well said, scantools are "tools" to assist us in diagnosing the issue. They wont tell us what parts te replace.

[@chrishard7616]

Nice work Dan, I really like the way you conduct your diagnosing and present it in the videos. If the timing was so far out I would expect there to be little to zero compression due to valves being damaged or staying open at the wrong time etc. It might have well been exposed earlier if a compression test had been conducted.

[@Diagnosedan]

Did the engine not have compression? Look at the in-cylinder waveform presented in the video

[@sanjayfernando6587]

Good job Dan. I think most 'new' mechanics just replace parts going by the diagnostic tool. When there are no / less fault codes, they are clueless and start guessing

[@Diagnosedan]

An then you have a broken wire😂 you can replace every part but it won't solve your problem

[@mercedes_and_more]

Looking forward to watching this one. Greetings from Germany 👌. Afternote: i have now watched in full and have to say this is probably your best video ever. As with your last one on the Mercedes, i just cannot believe that a “Gold plated” BMW garage with all their diagnostic gear can’t work this out as you could. Keep up the fantastic work please 🔥🔥🔥

[@Diagnosedan]

Danke😁 Maybe it was the bmw techs first day

[@mercedes_and_more]

@@Diagnosedan 🤔😂. You are very generous! Maybe but i think we likely know it wasn’t 🙁. Out of interest, was the engine fixable or did it need replacing?

[@kenmorton2571]

Rally enjoyed watching this!! most dealerships have NO idea how to fix problems, they just keep replacing parts, hoping it will work !!!

[@cenewton3221]

I'm a complete novice but once you showed spark, and introduced an alternate fuel source that resulted in the same "crank/no start", I figured the likely culprit was that it had jumped time. This is what happens with a lot of BMWs if one doesn't do proper scheduled maintenance. They could have avoided this if they had the timing system serviced at the proper interval(s). Those guides just aren't built to last over time. They may last well beyond the recommended service length but it's a big gamble to take. I suppose it's possible the timing system was serviced at proper intervals and the guide just failed anyway. Regardless, I hope for the owner's sake it didn't damage or destroy the engine internally. Nice video Dan, new sub! Greetings from the US!

[@marksantos2276]

Dan is the MAN. always an amazing look at how things are supposed to work as he walks through the logical steps

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for your great comment

[@vee985]

Nice work Dan. Would a relative compression test also show a timing problem?

[@hanynowsky]

Yes

[@cedricpomerleau5586]

If you look at his compression test, you see the weird spike in the middle of nowhere and there’s also a big spike. If properly timed, you should only have one.

[@ScottHamilton-ys2cm]

Excellent video. Well organizes diagnosis and explanations.

[@danieldillon6436]

Excellent Diagnostic procedures by Dan. Not enough folks use scopes, but they save so much time if you learn to use them.

[@4l5m6e1n]

perfect timing Dan! My only day off this week and I rlly needed something interesting to watch! Keep up the good work!

[@aravel13]

i dont have day off but now im on lunch time and great thing to watch 😊

[@Stambo59]

The timing wasn't perfect though, that was the problem. 😀

[@4l5m6e1n]

@@Stambo59 bahahah for the vehicle owner and his engine, definetly not :P

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes i exactly timed it on your day off🤣

[@gregjones8501]

Dan you’re a blessing to your customers and guys like us who follow you and aspire to be one of the greats! Thanks for all you do brother!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for the fantastic comment 😁

[@970357ers]

My guess: when the measured fuel pressure is below minimums for safe cranking/running, the hpfp valve opens fully to prevent a lean/knock situation. That’s why the plot was spiking then dropping to nothing.

[@My-Hunt]

Awesome video, first time watching. Unlike many others, your walkthrough was informative and engaging, not a training video like others. I learned a lot and enjoyed it. Subscribed and cant wait to watch more. Btw your English is phenomenal.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for subscribing its appriciated

[@igotaction]

If Dan worked for a manufacturer they would have ZERO lemon law buybacks. They would call him The Wolf, because he solves problems.

[@moestrei]

Wolfes solve problems?

[@blockbertus]

@@moestrei It's a reference to Pulp Fiction. Harvey Keitel playing Winston Wolf (The Wolf) and he solves problems.

[@moestrei]

@@blockbertus Thanks for info....never watched it.

[@blockbertus]

@@moestrei No worries. But I highly recommend watching it. A very good classic!

[@TassieLorenzo]

Or they could, you know, make sure the cars work properly before they leave the factory... 😉🙃 Having stricter quality control of components, to reject faulty components before they ever get put on assembled cars in the first place, and minimising production line errors so few to no cars need to be set aside for rework (or not set aside and sold to customers anyway as it may be)?

[@JohnSmith-ug5ci]

It sounds like the owner needs to sue the dealer as well as the previous shop.

[@2nickles647]

It's not the dealers fault. It's the so called Technican that did the job.

[@JohnSmith-ug5ci]

@@2nickles647 you are so blind. The dealer is the one that has the tech. The dealer is responsible.

[@Diagnosedan]

You dont need to sue right away you can also show the results and ask for a solution.

[@darrenkuthalane5080]

Great diagnosis of course, but this is a very common issue on this engine, I'm surprised the dealer missed it, and its not an interferance engine, new chain and guides is what we normally do on these.

[@antanasrapkevicius3897]

I work at the BMW and I find it so hard to believe that the dealership could not diagnose this. These engines not only are know for the timing chain issues, but there's several service solutions relating to this and also it logs crankshaft to camshaft correlation faults way before the engine stops running. So either it was a tyre fitter trying to upskill his career or a technician was as blind as a bat. Also you were not correct in describing the high pressure fuel pump operation. Its fully mechanical pump with quantity control valve, that is controlled by the PWM signal to close the valve so the pressure builds up. When deactivated or a fail safe state the valve is open (fuel is by-passing) so the fuel pressure doesn't build up in the rail more than 5 bar (that much low pressure fuel pump is supplying). However this would still allow the engine to run as DME would alter the injection timing so the fuel would be injected during the intake stroke allowing to engine to run in limp mode. No start is never ever a high pressure fuel pump issue on BMW/Mini petrol cars

[@SouthMainAuto]

Man what a great job Dan! Really enjoyed this. Thanks for sharing!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching my video and taking the time to leave a comment Eric its really appreciated

[@emilschw8924]

Dan to the rescue! Not all heroes wear capes! 😂

[@alltheusernameswastaken8936]

I suspect Dan has a cape, but he only puts it on for sexy time :)

[@Diagnosedan]

🤣💪

[@johnbanfield4179]

I especially like your approach Dan. When I had my garage, I am now 74 by the way. I often took the simple approach on a non starter. Like you, the idea as to how an engine works is simple. It requires Fuel and oxygen to burn. A spark to set fire to the fuel and Compression to force an explosion in the combustion chamber. All that at a very precise moment. And that's where valve timing comes into the equation.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for your comment!

[@TomWishaupt]

Another great video, Dan! Thanks! These engines are known to have timing chain issues. This confirms exactly my experience with BMW dealerships; completely unable to do a proper diagnosis. Also, the engine cowl seems to be fucked, also suggesting a incompetent mechanic has been working on it.

[@Diagnosedan]

Unfortunately i also wasnt impressed by the Dealership diagnosis

[@gertwolmarans6974]

😮 One mechanic is going to be in trouble 😂. It sounded obvious when you cranked it. It was swinging faster than normal. But how you get to your diagnosis is Like art. You rovk, brother.

[@tm199100]

i know right? i was like.. this engine is low on compression.. now we know the reason

[@RobotsCanDoAnything]

The spark had a weird pattern. It did not fire in an orderly way.

[@thinfourth]

@@RobotsCanDoAnything the spark would be missing a frame which is why it looked wierd on a video

[@Diagnosedan]

It cranked faster because the battery charger was on it

[@erikandersen2477]

Hope the engine survived though and the customer didn't had to pay a single € to either the dealership or the independent workshop.

[@Diagnosedan]

I dont know but i hope so

[@neilharrison7555]

Enjoyed the video. Logical thinking, good simple explanation. Glad it isn't my car, anticipating valve damage after the tensioner failure!

[@philjust-phil3159]

Good job, I was leaning towards the immobiliser, on the earlier models fuel was one of the systems inhibited by the ecu if it was not happy with the response from the EWS immobiliser module.

[@pavelppp888]

Can’t wait! Playing right away!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching

[@HughShower]

Yay! Dan’s here, the day just got much better! 👍

[@Diagnosedan]

😁👍

[@tonyflett9034]

Another great video. You are truly awesome at what you do. Dealerships are often terrible at diagnosing faults, so it's really important to find good independent repair shops like yours.

[@Diagnosedan]

I also know some fantastic dealer techs! It really depends on the employees

[@duffysautoservice9015]

DiagnoseDan, that was pretty cool of you to share that with us. Sometimes just getting back to basics is what is needed and to not shotgun parts at it in an attempt to solve a problem. Way to go, video.

[@Diagnosedan]

Exactly! Thanks for watching

[@oldschoolgamer5932]

Yay! new video! time to get smarter

[@Diagnosedan]

🤣🤣👍

[@frankcieplik2886]

I think a compression test at the start would have this figured out. When Dan first turned over the engine it sounded like a engine with a broken timing belt.

[@bluedunn374]

That was my thought also, spark and fuel tick….next is compression

[@elora2525]

This actually the first time he goes first with scoping cam sensors. On the past he does relative compression ( he even has that specific tool with green graphs) or absolute compression test with sensor that he do last. He just wanted to extend the video at end is a you tube educational video.

[@Diagnosedan]

Its all easy once you know whats wrong.😉

[@FoookOff]

It didn’t sound like a broken timing belt to me. I feel like Dan was expecting it to run on alternate fuel by how much he sprayed and how many times he cranked it.

[@mcplutt]

Most BMW engines don't have timing belts.

[@Mikee-pb1sv]

Good to see someone who knows how to do his job in an efficient and cost effective way

[@coxie230179]

Hi Dan, my first time seeing your videos and like everyone is saying you are great at your job and it’s good to see someone who really is able to diagnose a fault rather than just search diagnostic codes but sadly I won’t be able to watch any more videos because like so many people these days your bloody hands and arms are waving about all over the place and they aren’t even moving to emphasise what it is you’re saying they just move around anywhere 😂. But to recap I did appreciate seeing you using you knowledge and skills to find the fault and I’m sure you’re a great guy and wish you every success for the future 👍👍 thanks again.

[@tardeliesmagic]

So in some scenarios/instances it's worth digging that bit deeper,like you removing the rocker cover & doing a mechanical timing plus seeing those pieces broken,mystery solved! Great video ❤

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes i wanted confirmation 😂

[@tardeliesmagic]

@@Diagnosedan You are ace! Not many around like you my friend, you got some brains up there,much respect. ❤

[@marekutracki9421]

A reduction in compression could be heard when attempting to start the engine (with the exhaust or intake valve ajar) No maximum compression when one of the cylinders is not closed

[@user-pl1ow1wp9p]

Am Oleke from Nigeria, I'm learning auto electrician, & have watch most of your KZbin lectures, they are helpful to me. Thanks

[@Diagnosedan]

Thats great to hear!

[@bill8by5]

Wonderful Dan!!! I am an old school mechanic. Thus, the very first thing I verify on any engine is basic engine timing - with the valve train. Using the valves, it lets one see how the valves are operating (or not) with the reciprocating mass. Obviously, after that is time for compression, spark and fuel. Seems very out of sequence, but it has always served me well. In this case, the Dealership would have located the problem right out of the gate. So, what was the outcome/fix?

[@michaeltutty1540]

Very interesting video. My daily driver is a 1990 Volvo 240DL Estate. For several years in a row the car would run very roughly and return poor fuel economy. The 5th year a different tech thought to change the throttle position sensor. The recommendation to my mother was that this could happen, so replace the car. Since she wanted to keep Arthur, so the deal was that the shop would replace the part. If it worked, Ma was to return for them to remove the new one and install an older style of pump. If it did work ma was to pay for the repair minus the costs of renting a car. It worked. Then again, my high pressure pump is electric and mounted beside the fuel pump under the car, so very easy to work in

[@ashleyweston5420]

Great informative video as always, thanks Dan. Are all modern engines so badly engineered they fail like this, it used to be if you had a timing chain over a belt it lasted the life of the engine.

[@renenl8187]

my father is an electrical engineer, unfortunately he was never able to enthuse me for the profession, contrary to you Danny. what an incredible craftsman you are and how nice that you can tell it like this. keep it up! you have my respect.

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Dan. I really enjoyed your diag. It was so methodical and so well done. I would say that you are "The Master." I will be back to enjoy other problems being diagnosed. Note: Your English is superb! You possess many attributes that most of us do not. :-) Thank you, again. N6395T (Although the Piper Arrow was my favorite. :-)

[@msullivan9565]

Thanks Dan, I am glad to have found your excellent videos and have watched several already and learned more each time. I especially enjoyed your F15 40E Hybrid video no crank from starter video. I didn't know these Hybrids had two starter systems. One from conventional starter, mounted in front of engine which shocked me, and the electric motor starter in transmission. In my situation I get a quick one second attempt to start and then starter stops over and over, so it appears not to be cranking long enough to start. The electric starter does not work either. I don't know which is not staying engaged yet as I had almost given up. I am old school BMW owner for years and this Hybrid is a whole new beast to me. As there are very few discussions on the BMW Hybrid, I am at a loss to find out where to look next. I had bad 12VDC battery which I replaced and registered and that got rid of the dozens of low voltage faults, but I still have codes permanent and intermittent. I figured this may be why engine won't start. DME 21A117 and EME 222D04 and searching for potential issues I see there is a short somewhere, and if that means a had connection of a short to ground, I don't know where to look. My Hybrid charges up to full 18M level, so I am at a loss. Have you ever run into this with a Hybrid before. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks a million, Mike

[@harold6863]

As a retired top BMW Master I used to freak out with some or pretty much all the so-called technicians. Most of the time they would contact BMW technical help is so much I can do without the car in front of them. They would never take responsibility for their own diagnosis and the poor customer would have to pay for half-dozen parts he/she did not need. And they have no shame, no pride in their work. They would just rip customers off and go home at 5 o’clock not a care in the world.

[@Diagnosedan]

We are lucky there are also great techs working at dealerships like you used to do!

[@harold6863]

@@Diagnosedan thank you Dan I love your channel. You are the best on You Tube👍

[@swwweet]

Great video Dan and very relatable, unfortunately my Golf MK6 '09 has a similar issue... which its first diagnosis was also a broken fuel pump but ended up being out of time (which is also a common issue for the engine..

[@Diagnosedan]

Not a great outcome but fortunately you know whats wrong

[@beluxauto5968]

We are not going to bash others but me , you and a lot of others just know that the repairs done by the dealer and the independent are pure guess work. The last two months I have seen at least 5 wrongly diagnosed cars that where easy enough to diagnose properly, not rocket science, but for some reason wasn't performed. A touareg with a vacuumleak in the hose to the brake booster was diagnosed as being a bad booster and charged the client full price for not fixing the car and today I got a A class where the steering rack was replaced while the BIG PLUS wire is straight in your face to check for power. It is absurd. I don't know what is in the air, and I am NOT the Nr1 mechanic in the world but c'mon people. Basic things. You have your head with your job Danny. Respect and great video.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for your comment, do remember that there are alot of great Dealership techs out there. Its not all bad!

[@WladyslawAntonsiewicz9627]

Nice work man)) Honestly I would go by this order spark, on. External Fuel worked, I will then check the fuel supply system, if it didn't run on external Fuel, then as long as I don't have a picoscope I would jumped directly to timing check if okay I would go back to the sensors.

[@jaydee3046]

Great video. Could the problem with no codes be from the valve timing problem creating a reading so the ecm thought you were doing a no fuel crank with the gas floored?

[@Diagnosedan]

I talked to the customer after the video and there were timing related faults stored in the car before it came to me

[@fernand7135]

I learned a lot without being a professional mechanic. thanks my friend. Greetings from Peru

[@michaeltutty1540]

That is incompence at its worst. A few years back a friend from 2,000 miles away asking me to talk with his mechanic, the second one he had tried. The car was an 89 Ford Crown Victoria in perfect, mint condition. I had it sussed out in half an hour from over 1,000 miles away. The bearings at the bottom of the of the distributor had gone bad.