BMW F10 Affordable Big Brake Upgrade!

[@AlexandreOliveiraAlex]

what a magnificent work... thank you!

[@smartcopper]

I do use 19-inch aluminum rims. Currently, they are paired with 330mm discs and they don’t look good...

[@AYO_KO]

My main question is, will this 395mm setup fit a 19” 351m M-Sport F10 wheel?? Do you need AM or OEM 20” wheels to run this setup or can these brakes fit behind the stock 19s?? I’m between using G series M Performance 395mm brakes vs G series M Sport 374mm brakes. But after watching your video, I’m interested in doing this X5 M conversation (this option solely being for Fitment as I like the G series styling more.)

[@dariusGarage]

Interestingly enough, the clearance from brake callipers to wheel spokes increases with the X5M callipers, meaning you can actually fit higher offset wheels after the retrofit (but why would you haha). We used 19” aftermarket super speed wheels and OEM M5 19” winter wheels (408M) without issues. I would presume that your 351s would also be the fine, but I haven’t test fitted first hand!

[@AYO_KO]

@@dariusGarage GREAT CONTENT!! Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. With this video alone, I feel like the X5 M caliper route might just be the easier way to go, Fitment wise thanks to your very informative video.

[@Dahigi777]

@@dariusGaragethis is interesting. I have almost no space at at all between the stock caliper and inside of wheel spokes and have been discouraged from trying this. Also considered the m5 brakes but figured the was no way I could fit them

[@dariusGarage]

@@Dahigi777 f10 m5 brakes are significantly more expensive to retrofit as compared to these X5m callipers as you also need to run custom adapters and the parts are pricier. I’m not sure how fitment would be with f10 m5 brakes but I’m confident that you would be fine to install x5m brakes with your existing wheels so long as they clear your existing f10 550i / f13 650i brakes, they are the same brakes used on alpina b6 edition 50 (I’m pretty sure wheel fitment is identical to standard BMW)

[@Dahigi777]

@ definitely adding this to my list of things to look out for on eBay etc

[@AngelS-d8s]

Any issues considering the center bore of the x5m is slightly bigger? Also, have you thought about f80 rear rotors to match the front?

[@dariusGarage]

Good call! I didn’t notice any issues, but I will in the near future investigate this as I still have the parts and a similar car to play with. If I recall correctly the hub size where the rotor sits is larger than the 72.6 hub size used for the wheels and it’s possible that the bore for the rotors is the same between X5 and smaller bmw models even though the wheel bore is not the same. You can see a step at the end of the bearing shank where the rotor would sit at 7:05. This step in combination with the rotor screw should allow the rotor to be properly centred. My dad didn’t keep the car long enough to even get a chance to upgrade the rear brakes, he traded it in for a bigger car… but it may be something I’d consider when I need to replace my brakes on my 650i !

[@AngelS-d8s]

Got cha! Love what you did, good luck with the future project!

[@smartcopper]

I was wondering if it would work on a 2011 528i

[@dariusGarage]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, all xDrive F10s use the same spindle that the brakes bolt up to, and the rwd and xDrive 528is (n52 and n20) use the same rotors and brake callipers. This indicates that what you can fit on an xDrive 550i f10 can also fit on any 2011 528i. The only thing to keep in mind is that you will likely need 19” alloys to clear the calliper… they are huge!!!

[@josephmgomez3921]

Can you put those on a 2014 535i?

[@dariusGarage]

If its an xDrive I'm confident it should bolt up the same way as our 550, it uses the same hub carrier as the 550i xDrive. If its RWD it may be different as the hub carrier is different... that being said rwd and xDrive use the same rotors so maybe it will work as well but it may have some differences. Of course please do your own research before pulling the trigger and buying the parts!

[@Dylan69]

More f10 content please!!

[@socommaster]

If you install new m5 brake dust shields, do you have to remove the hubs to install them?

[@dariusGarage]

No, on the front of all f10 models (as far as I’m aware), you should be able to remove the dust shield without removing the wheel bearing/hub. The back may be a different story

[@socommaster]

Okay thank you! ​@@dariusGarage

[@saadaziz95]

Does the brake pedal feel spongy? My only concern is that the stock master cylinder won’t be adequate for the upgrade.

[@dariusGarage]

The brake pedal felt super tight and strong after the upgrade, better than stock. Almost like an on off switch. Even with ceramic pads the pedal felt much like the brakes an F85 X5M which are super strong!

[@johnhay8585]

Can u fit them to a e92 m3

[@dariusGarage]

Great question! I was not sure myself so I did some digging. The E92 is not an easy car to do bbks on because of how it bolts to the spindle. There are normally two retrofits that are done. The first is F80 m3 4 piston brakes, you need F80 spindles and a bunch of hardware to make this work. Not an easy task because you have to mess with more than just brakes. The second is the F10 M5 6 piston brakes. From my understanding this is a much more expensive option as the parts are more expensive but the plus side is that you can bolt a bracket to the caliper to avoid changing out the whole spindle, you may however need to get a lower offset wheel to clear the massive caliper. The end result however is simply fantastic. Either option is expensive and I can see why you are looking for alternatives, however I don't think the E70 X5M calipers would make sense on your application. Their bracket design is similar to the F80 in that its not removable like the F10 M5s are, so you can't put custom brackets on it to make it work with your stock spindle ( I doubt the X5M brakes would work on your stock spindle since F80 M3 ones don't) , so you are left with getting an F80 M3 spindle and hoping the X5M caliper would fit on it (nobody seems to have done that upgrade on an F80 though). I don't have an E92 or F80 M3 to test stuff on nor do I know anybody with one well enough to let me mess with their car. Sorry but I'm not the guy that can answer your question! Thanks for reaching out!

[@mrace7594]

Did you replace all four brakes or just the front two

[@dariusGarage]

Just the front 2, for the back we were going to upgrade it to M5 brakes as well (larger rotor and M5 calipers) but ended up trading in the car before we got to it. The back brakes don't look that great even when upgraded as they are just a single piston design like any other car, just painted blue with a larger rotor. Its hard to upgrade the back to something nicer as the caliper must also have e brake functionality and there are no pretty off the shelf BMW rear calipers with E brake built in.

[@simomone5715]

Only front or all 4 wheels?

[@dariusGarage]

We did only the front… made all the difference in brake feel but then the back looked goofy 🤪

[@simomone5715]

@@dariusGarage I know, that's why I put all 4, but only the front ones were enough! Even if everyone tells you that the car overbalances like this .... beginners! 😂👍

[@travismachado4406]

The purpose of drilling and slotting rotors is to help with cooling

[@dariusGarage]

@@travismachado4406 in theory yes, in practice no. Drilling rotors in particular is the least effective for performance gains as the holes in the drilled rotors only cool the metal around just around the holes, the non drilled areas remain quite hot… meaning uneven expansion and contraction of the rotors (warping and cracking results). They also have less heat capacity as there is less metal to heat up, so they over heat faster, this also means they cool faster yes but that means nothing when your brake fluid is absorbing that heat… and that won’t cool fast! Look at race cars and see what they use, they use primarily plain rotors and sometimes slotted. The slots on slotted rotors allow for the brake pad surface to be cleaned off, they are noisy and can make brake pad life shorter. With plain pads, pad material builds up and can prevent full contact with the rotor surface on plain rotors, this can also lead to pad deposit spots on the rotor face which cause pulsation/vibration in the wheel. The upside is smooth, quiet performance, (as long as everything is working properly) with long service life. These rotors are the least likely to warp

[@dariusGarage]

@@travismachado4406 but don’t take my word for it! Here’s an engineer’s take kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3rEZ5J5Zqdpi7Msi=kE4uqHEUkegwQiDn

[@socommaster]

What was the total cost?

[@dariusGarage]

Good point I should have mentioned that in the video! We already had the bare brake callipers from a trade deal so it makes it a bit complicated… We needed hardware ($100CAD) rotors ($1200CAD), pads ($160CAD) and some brake fluid ($30CAD). Our cost for the brake upgrade was around $1490CAD. The aesthetic repairs we did costed an additional $500 for all the fender liners, shields and cleaning products. The callipers will run you an additional $1000- $1200CAD for cheaper ones, if you want new ones you can buy from ECS tuning for $1000 USD per calliper. Total price for just the big brake kit with used callipers will be $2700 CAD they way we did it, but with plain rotors it could be as low as $2200 CAD

[@edisoncedeno2676]

I just did this swap on my X6 the only trouble I had was finding the adapters. But after finding them make sure you have a set of wheels to clear the calipers. I made that mistake even though they are 20” wheels the barrels were 3mm smaller I shaved down the ends of the calipers. Some new powder coating and good as new

[@ProjectZGarage]

Very nice, It came out great! I am doing the smaller setup with the 348mm rotors and the 4 piston calipers.

[@dariusGarage]

Thank you! Interesting! Are you planning to use F30 callipers and stock rotors on an F10/F13 car?

[@ProjectZGarage]

@@dariusGarage Yes is the f30 caliper and the 550i rotors on a f10 535i

[@ProjectZGarage]

will be posting the setup on my channel once I'm done.

[@platzangst911]

You should better protect yourself by using a jackstand or rennstand next time. A normal jack is unsafe because of hydraulics…

[@dariusGarage]

Please remember this is old video footage, I have since gotten a much safer setup.

[@platzangst911]

@@dariusGarage discovered your channel for the first time.

[@bestclips7223]

Will this help with brake fade?? Been experiencing hot brakes and loss of power after some spirited drives in my f10

[@dariusGarage]

Yes, this will definitely help with reducing brake fade since there is more mass and fluid to heat up in the braking system. But there are cheaper alternatives as well! It’s always depends on your specific case… Which f10 do you have? When’s the last time you had your brake fluid flushed? Are your brake pads and rotors relatively new? What brand are those components? Are your brake cooling ducts still in tact? For most on road users just these things should be enough. And if not you can change your driving to still be fast but easy on your brakes…

[@bestclips7223]

@@dariusGarage I have a 535i msport! The pads and rotors oem from dealership and are a few months old so I’m thinking it is the fluid because I havent flushed it… but the pedal remains hard so I read that means it’s more pad failure… I also just got an alignment at the dealership which I’m pretty sure they didn’t do to spec for the msport suspension and I’m wondering if that could be putting pressure when I use the brakes? Thanks for the reply!!

[@dariusGarage]

@@bestclips7223 Factory oem pads suck when it comes to spirited driving because they don’t have an expansion groove in the middle… this causes them to crack and cause all sorts of weird side effects when they get warm, funny enough my dads 550i had cracked oem brake pads when we did this upgrade. And they only had 1000kms on them! I would suggest you change those out for a performance oriented set with an expansion groove down the middle. I’m in the process of trying out brake pads and have yet to find the perfect one, but my favourite so far is EBC Redstuff or Yellowstuff, the drawback for either is long bed-in period (1000kms) where you can’t drive hard on them at all! They are also dusty, redstuff is less than oem pads and yellowstuff is more dusty than oem. Once they are bed-in they are amazing! Redstuff feels like oem but can take way more abuse, yellowstuff feels way more grabby by comparison and can take even more abuse than redstuff but also eats up your rotors faster. Don’t go for ultimax2 they are poop. Next set I buy I will try out another brand, but for now this is all I know. Flush that brake fluid with minimum DOT 4 fluid. This should be done every 2 years I believe. Ideally you should take it to a shop with a bmw computer that can run the brake bleed program. Alignment shouldn’t cause any braking abnormalities. It will cause advanced tire wear/ feathering on one side (if you have bad camber) or the whole tire (if you have bad toe). It can also make the car feel unstable at speed or around corners. Hope that helps!

[@dsrc53]

This was super cool but no way is this an affordable upgrade in the US M5 and x5m calipers are very expensive even used the cheap upgrade would be something more along the lines of the g30 540i MSport calipers pads and rotors those are cheap and very strong.

[@dariusGarage]

Thanks for the info! Affordable is a vague/relative term so it’s bound to cause some folks to disagree, it all depends on your perspective! This upgrade is half or even a quarter the cost of Brembo BBKs, let alone other options like CCBs which are not even feasible for the majority… perhaps “attainable” is the better choice of words here😄