Trudvang Legends Review - A Lot Of Fun!!! At First.

[@HexForger]

And let's not forget the usual, dreaded CMON's decision to release some of the expansions (not just cosmetic items!) as Kickstarter only exclusive content. Because who doesn't love the the feeling of missing out when buying CMON game!

[@Linnir]

I have finished Trudvang. The story gets better and better as you get deeper. You can’t judge it from the first two or three scenarios as these are still setup storywise. The last third is really good as your previous choices bear fruit. This is a game where it feels that your choices matter to the world. Two caveats: the Dimwalker is essential as you need a healer. I found the sweet spot is two players for player interaction and game mechanics. I miss it now that I’ve finished and look forward to wave 2 content.

[@NickJacksonusa]

I think this is a very fair review. We had a lot of fun playing it over the long weekend, but the core box needs more and I'm hoping the Wave2 extras give it the variety it needs.

[@Valen-D]

Without a doubt this is most accurate review and conversation on Trudvang out there! Every point on the likes and not likes are spot on and why it may not be for everyone. Nice work Alex.

[@BoardGameCo]

Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@wade138]

Watching you explain the game and go through the review I kept saying this seems like a less compelling version of The Isofarian Guard. Then you mentioned it at the end. I'm now glad I got in on a late pledge for The Isofarian Guard and let this one go.

[@mysticmouse7983]

I know there's been a lot of chatter about how hard skill tests are. I don't have much problem with this but my son and I did start trialling this idea for fun...sometimes we like to tinker. So... Variant option for skill test resolution in addition to the normal rules for not passing test ( IE can Exhaust to return all runes and draw again) so... If any success runes are drawn these can will reduce the target test by equal number for any subsequent attempt allowed through Exhausting character. So after Exhausting character return all runes drawn including the successful runes to the bag and draw a number of runes again equal to 7 minus the number of successes from the previous draw. Resolve new runes drawn as normal with any further success being compared to the reduced challenge for a final result. Example Str 3 challenge. Drawn 7 runes and gain 1 success. Challenge is now Str 2 test. Exhaust character to draw again. So return all drawn runes to bag and then draw 6 runes again ( 7 minus the single previous success). Compare new runes to adjusted challenge.

[@BoardGameCo]

Interesting, for me the issue wasn't difficulty but rather repetitiveness

[@Linnir]

Yes your assessment is correct. However while you can’t lose, failing checks will lead the story down a darker path. So you don’t fail in combat but can fail in the story. Agree that the core combat mechanic does need some tweaking for longevity.

[@yadayadayada]

I've played 5 sessions so far and your assessment was spot on. 👍 I like the story more as I get further in. But the repetition of pulling chips out of a bag and fighting the same 4 enemies, using the same 8 cards is disappointing. I'm still enjoying it though - just wish it had more variety.

[@TheOnlyTata]

Isofarian Guard has your name on it. It deals with the repetition by mixing up the bag building and how the enemy all have their own AI deck.

[@brettpetersen1671]

Brett Petersen I finally played last night, was worried after watching a few reviews, it was really fun. This game ended up being pretty close to what I was hoping for when I backed it, which is a choose your own adventure game mixed with Quacks of Quedlinburg. Honestly, it reminded me a lot of Destinies, which also has minimal punishment for failure. I have decided that most choices they made because of the impossibility of balancing everything. I wish that more of your upgrades could carry over but balancing prevent it. My only real complaint is the same as yours, that the spawning system for enemies should have been designed more flexible so that the game could include expansion monsters. I will wait for wave 2 to see how the system develops. For now I am excited to play C-2.

[@buddhawasright]

Dodged a bullet by not backing this!

[@marksteelman7747]

I agree this game needs more variety in advancement. I also think the Event cards are lacking. We are playing three player and there are a lot of events where I just declare I’m going to fail out of the gate beside I need 4 fire and there is only one in my bag. I wish there was a reason to stay engaged. I wish event tests worked a lot more like combat. I like the core loop I just want new problems to solve in such a long game.

[@MerrillWhiteKalEl]

You liked it more than Boardgame Rambling. I was originally a backer and then pulled out. I am glad that I did. Too bad that even with a retool the game still did not deliver a great experience.

[@pedroalves6425]

Thank you for the intelligent and thoughtful review. I backed this mainly for miniatures for the rpg and immersion. For those of us that have read the RPG setting books and novel (Oathbreaker) the general negativity the game has received has been a tad distressing. I´m prepared to give it the slack it deserves, even if for immersion sake alone. Thank you again. Cheers.

[@isaacraze4301]

That year it was between Trudvang and Oathsworn, I’m sure there both fun but I’m glad I picked Oathsworn.

[@1AngelAlita]

As a painter, I chose Trudvang over Isofarian Guard. I may have made a mistake.

[@BoardGameCo]

As a painter you're still right:)

[@blakecurry3880]

I get the notion that this will be where I land as well, but I've only played 1 chapter, so I'll see how it evolves as I play. But I'm with you, Isofarian Guard is my number ONE most anticipated game and I can't wait for it to deliver.

[@viesturskokarevics2427]

I like that you cannot loose. Nice change from Gloomhaven.

[@elimcjones7722]

Alex after not having played Trudvang for a couple of months: "I wonder where Trudvang went? Maybe it's in that pile over there... nope, hmm I guess I can lose it..."

[@CB-yh3db]

I think people needing a “lose” condition is really people wanting a “challenge”. If you can not lose, they feel like you are not being challenged. We lost a few scenarios in Gloomhaven but we just ran it back and used our previous knowledge to win. That really didn’t bother me. I grew up playing Japanese RPGs. When you would lose against a big boss in a Japanese RPG game and then go on to grind/level up and then face them again. The loss was not really a loss to me, but a set-back.

[@fy8798]

I think this kind of person is a large reason for their own feeling of a lack of "challenge". Because they keep pushing for "loss conditions", the content put out has these loss conditions... ...and is consequently easier, because only few people enjoy being constantly forced to start a long campaign over the moment a scenario is lost. These people want the *feeling* of challenge, but paradoxically, they get very angry when facing actually difficult content they might have to try multiple times until they figure it out.

[@CB-yh3db]

@@fy8798 - lol, which is why I don’t play “Dark Souls”. I beat “Devil May Cry” on hard once when I was a child but I have neither the time nor inclination to punish myself like that to complete a game. However, back in those days, you would get like maybe 2 or 3 Triple-A titles a year unlike today.

[@vexedhermit]

@@fy8798 I get what you're saying, but I am one of those people who enjoy the threat of having to start over if I make foolish decisions. It's impossible to become wiser in life without experiencing genuine failure... Unfortunately, many are asking for contrived affirmations of their ability that are *convincing* enough to fool them into a sense of accomplishment. Trudvang ostensibly refuses to advance that illusion, and I guess there's honesty in that. However, speaking subjectively: I lost hundreds of dollars backing a game I can't lose. So for me, the paradoxical irony is that I lost by paying for the threat of loss- only to find that I cannot loose.

[@randyjones5429]

I wonder if this game won't really shine until we get all the extra material. I wasn't really that big a fan of Marvel United until I started playing with the Kickstarter extras and expansions. I thought the core was pretty limited in replay, it wasn't until I played a combination of all the different heroes and villains that I really saw the depth and replayability of the game. Since I've already backed trudvang fully, I'm hoping this might be a similar experience. Do you think that is a possibility or impossible to tell at this point?

[@JoseMedia2421]

Its cmon, core boxes are bare minimum. Expansions and stretch goals usually give diversity of enemies.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, but that only helps me if I like the core gameplay loop enough

[@1AngelAlita]

I'm afraid not in this case. There are no random enemies appearing in stories, AFAIK.

[@ImaginEric]

I didn’t care for Roll Player Adventures for many of the same reasons (repetitive encounters, not enough depth to story, and decisions don’t really make much difference to the final adventure). And you liking RPA more means that this is a definite “stay away” for me.

[@TalasnatheHeartless]

OK, so here's my take on the not being able to lose issue. If you are playing badly enough that you trigger the fail condition the game becomes harder. Your penatly for not stalling out a battle so that you can clear the penalty is that essentially combat drags longer in future games. Now compare this with other similar campaign games. Pandemic Legacy sees you failing and gives you a helping hand. Your losses don't stop the campaign, you still lose missions but you are given some more options to try and stop the loses from overwhelming your group and sapping the fun from the game. A loss in Gloomhaven means you don't progress the campaign but can try the same puzzle again with a bit more experience, maybe a new skill to test. The game becomes easier so repeating the challenge does not feel as tedious. Trudvang makes a dull combat system worse the more you fail. My group finished Pandemic Legacy with a mediocre ending but had a great time playing. We smashed out over 70 games of Gloomhaven and still wanted more in the end. We finished 12 games of Trudvang and it is getting hard to get it back on to the table. Campaign games don't need to end abruptly as a penatly for a loss but they shouldn't make the game a worse experience as a penalty

[@jcw59able]

Loving that side camera

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks :)

[@dav1dgear]

Hmmm this is pretty much the same as what you said about Bardsung, with the repetitivenes.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yes. Same problems in different games. Although dif ratios,.I think bardsung had more grind but at least more to grind towards.

[@lucky6666]

Bardsung is a grind. But the random dungeon does offer a degree of opportunity to use resources in a clever way to better succeed. Bardsung actually used the grind to incentivize you to play better so there's less grind! But unlike this I think Bardsung offers a ton of variation with characters and builds and really fun loop. Combat is good and there's boss fights. Every room you're praying for a good exit and a good draw and you especially do not want to have backtrack through the center.

[@lucky6666]

I'm sure I would have backed this... looks so good. Glad I didn't though and glad I don't need to pay resale prices to get it!

[@mikhailvoroshilov1536]

So... quickly... I'm very impressed with how quickly a human being is actually able to speak! This is just overwhelming. I can't understand half of it.

[@BoardGameCo]

Lol sorry

[@jeffbroemmel8003]

We’ll, that was disappointing to hear. I will wait to see what the 2nd wave brings when it comes out. It may not update the rules but it will increase the numbers mobs we will encounter.

[@tawink]

CMON has yet to make a compelling campaign game.

[@patriziopastore9895]

Hi man... I'm also playing the game after waiting a lot as all the backer that jump this project. We are more or less on the same page is a good game but not great and I want to play great game (to keep in my collection) I can agree on 3.5 but can be easy going to 3/5 in a while.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yup, I enjoy it but enjoyment alone isn't enough.

[@kevinalford]

Sounds like the expansion might elevate this game up to improve on the negatives it has.

[@BoardGameCo]

Very possibly

[@ThymeKeeper]

I had no interest in this but it actually sounds like I would enjoy it. At least for awhile. I'll wait and look for a secondary copy :).

[@bigd5773]

The more I hear people talk about it the more it sounds like Destinies to me (except for the Co-op part). Unfortunately, I hated Destinies, but fortunately my kids loved it. All the reviewers seem to love Destinies, but seem to dislike this one.

[@yogibbear]

Soon to be in your "Games Leaving the Collection". I give it 1 week. :P

[@BoardGameCo]

Oh, it's gone.

[@scifigeezer5271]

This looks a bit like Runebound, kinda, but less fun. Can anyone recommend a Runebound style game that isn't disappointing? (assuming you like Runebound 😊)

[@patrickk.6641]

It depends on the edition of runebound. If you want a similar game like 3rd edition that is competitive your best but very expensive choice would most likely be Euthia: Torment of Ressurection. If you like 3rd edition and you want a cooperative version of it: lord of the rings: journeys in middle-earth (it is pretty much the spiritual successor to runebound) or the hexplore it series (which is most likely heavy influenced by runebound). These are my recommendations but there are a ton of games out there which I have never heard of.

[@mouselim72]

I cannot comprehend here... story cannot get invested in, repetitive gameplay, lack of variety in combat and experience upgrade - yet it is enjoyable?

[@Gwendor19]

Honestly if you listed back to your review it sounds that your rating should be lower then 3.5😅 your more critical than normal (nothing wrong with that though!) in your reviews with an 3.5 rating😊

[@BoardGameCo]

Not at all, 10 hours of gameplay in and enjoyed all of it...just not enough to give it another 20 hours.

[@Gwendor19]

@@BoardGameCo ty for your reply😊 I will find out myself Soon😀 I bought a base pledge from some one for 90€ (not to bad for todays current prices for board games)

[@wonderbread3371]

I sensed you were going to get rid of this game from your previous video. I feel better that I backed Isofarian Guard over this one. Hopefully Isofarian doesn't disappoint.

[@daodasbrot4817]

This is no game. You can not loose! 😟

[@NickJacksonusa]

You could always house rule a lose condition. For example after 3 deaths instead of drawing a Wyrd card you are eliminated.

[@daodasbrot4817]

@@NickJacksonusa i could also design my own game! Sorry for that, i know whT you mean. But how can you design a game where the player can‘t loose? Where is the reason to play good? Is this just an Adventure Book with miniatures? No, for this much money, thry habe a responsibility

[@mysticmouse7983]

Legend of Galzyr is similar as the focus here is on the journey imo.

[@daodasbrot4817]

@@mysticmouse7983 True, but far more streamlined and it does not try to be something else. But for me, it is more a Story with littlebit game. Not a real game. But Trudvang wants to be sooo much…

[@Gwendor19]

Alex, did I win a prize? It looks like you send me a reply in a below remark. Or is this phishing?

[@michal4736]

Looks soooo good but its coop...meh ;/

[@Tharukan]

This sounds incredibly basic. Wonder what they spent all this time on..

[@paleblue8922]

CMON lost Reputation, such a stupid game