Bob & Ramon Show EP.15 - Could this be Eric Claptons lost Les Paul Guitar???

PATREON: / theguitarshow

[@georgew.morrowiii118]

No matter the opinion of this particular guitar, you never fail in presenting quality, informative, and interesting content.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks George!

[@ScottAbene]

"You're a fuckin' Aweful Luthier" :) Brilliant!

[@TheGuitarShow]

lol

[@chingasofarkaso]

This was absolutely fascinating, guys. Thank you for doing this!

[@sgtpepper9099]

Yes ! I’ve been waiting all week for this, can’t wait to watch !

[@runreilly]

Love the color! This video was awesome. I expected to watch only one minute but instead found myself nerding out with you guys for forty minutes. Learned a lot. Great content. Thanks!

[@TheGuitarShow]

Many thanks indeed bro!

[@mrsoul4231]

Great video..really enjoyed watching this,I love how articulate Bob is.Thank you for posting.

[@5150show]

Our channel repeatedly talks about your videos. And the archeology you do for the music we all love . The next generation of fans will be well served with this organic research you and Bob provide . Thank you Ramon and Bob

[@TheGuitarShow]

🙏

[@danottley2627]

Thanks Bob and Ramon. Fascinating!!! Thanks for showing that off (and always good to see the 58) and for the forensic deep dive.

[@HC_GUITAR]

My favorite youtube show keeps getting better!! Great stuff Bob and Ramon :)

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks

[@gadilauer]

Thank you for 41 very enjoyable minutes. Bob you knowledge about these guitars is fantastic.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks!

[@shot8unshot8un75]

Great stuff, I enjoyed this. Thanks

[@richardleonardhill]

One area of guitar identification that often gets overlooked is the uniqueness of the fret marker inlays. The markers on Les Pauls are helpful in this area due to their large size. The individuality of each inlay is often captured very well in photographs and as both missing instruments would have been photographed many times this may help you guys further with your investigations. Good luck, and thanks for a very enjoyable video.

[@5150show]

Wonderful thank you both

[@danielhorsley2259]

Fascinating theories and beautiful old guitar that was some fine playing too!

[@PhreddCrintt]

New boy to the channel guys (New boy!!! - I'm 73!) VERY informative to say the least. I look forward to going over your back-catalogue and to future shows. (I have an '83 'Experimental' SG which I love - paints in a bit of state at the bottom of the body - and yes the heads been of and professionally repaired!)

[@TheGuitarShow]

🙏

[@GraemeCampbellMusic]

That was really interesting, loved it.

[@BNC593]

Let me also add you both are incredible guitar players! Glad I found this channel!

[@TheGuitarShow]

Many thanks indeed 🙏🙏🙏🎸

[@justinmcconnell3315]

Thanks 👍👍👍 That was a great fun walk through one of the greats,

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks

[@cgavin1]

Great to see Bob again! You know its going to be a good video if he's getting some toys out the family crypt.

[@johnrazer9736]

The craic between Bob and you is great. Funny and smart guy 🎸 🔥

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks bro

[@karinmars7664]

Thank you guys !! Interesting as usual....💗🎸

[@atiostefony3760]

So greatness in this chanel, i hace a Traditional Pro, 2011 not even on the same leage of a 59 or 60 but man do i love everything about Les Paul guitars, good job here.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks Atio

[@patrickkellyguitar8300]

I thought I knew about Les Pauls until I came across this channel. Thanks for educating me, fellas. Love the videos.

[@markwright9352]

Great episode guys loved it lots of interesting thoughts there 👍🏻

[@willwye410]

Just seen this (better late than never) & it reminds me of another '59 thats been hidden within the M25 since the 1970s. My brothers one is up for sale at Dore & Rees in March 2022.

[@brownsfan7753]

I loved this video and the playing was awesome!

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks

[@toneman335]

Too many "may bees", could bees, and "might bees" in this video.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Definitely maybe

[@derekclacton]

On the subject of headstock breaks and repairs, Michael Schenker reckoned that when he had his Flying V repaired it sounded better than before. As I recall, he said that may be due to having a steel rod inserted to reinforce the repair.

[@bobburke1799]

Ok..when we gonna call Clapton ❓

[@chuckschillingvideos]

There are plenty of things one can call him...

[@slashingbison2503]

Love these shows, damn that 10 years after spoonful cover is amazing, love that era.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thank you

[@BrianKlobyGuitar]

Awesome history, thank you :)

[@MrMike-fm8bp]

Very very well done !!

[@GlaucoAlves]

Amazing stuff Ramon!

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks

[@stude1953]

BRAVO! Interesting video!

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@dennisshearer4655]

I owned a 1967 345 that had been shipped from USA about 2000. The guitar had been professionally lacquered we don’t know when but probably 1970s. This was commonly done when guitars were gigged to protect the finish. Sometimes done by Gibson to order. The colour was quite similar in the way it held onto its red colour due to the lacquer. Black light did look a bit cloudy.

[@BNC593]

Love this! Really entertaining and educational. Just bought a new 60s original series Gibson Les Paul Standard Cherry Sunburst. Love it. First thing I did was rewired to 50s. Also the neck tone pot was on the low side of 500k ohms, around 465k. Temporarily added a 50k resistor in series with the .022uf cap for this tone control to open up the high frequencies. Ordered a new replacement pot. I used to own a 68 Cherry Sunburst, but like the idiot I was in the early 80s, I sold it.

[@shaunw9270]

Ooh I was about to watch this morning and it disappeared. Now I'm heading to work. I think I shall watch later on the TV 👍

[@MarshallAmpMan]

Great Show!!!

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thank you

[@bertjilk3456]

It’s like ‘Fake or Fortune’ of the guitar world. Enjoyable to watch. I’d love to see Clapton try it, although I’m not sure even he would know. It’s a long time ago, and many guitars have passed through his hands.

[@SagaMediaNet]

Frailers is in Runcorn :) but only started operating in 1983 Curlys Music is in Liverpool - Started 1978

[@BeesWaxMinder]

I was in Curlys the other day👍

[@markhemming1423]

In my mind, the shallower the break angle of the string over the saddle, the lower the friction coefficient of the string over the saddle, so less force is required when moving/bending the string. A similar lower friction effect is obtained when you apply a lubricant to the nut. It’s not a question of reducing the string tension, it’s more a case of reducing the friction across fixed points. Ie the nut or saddle. So yes, top wrapping DOES indeed make vibrato and bending of strings easier.

[@gordonhawtin2181]

Mark Hemming ,I worked for Sound City Jan-Jan 1967 and again Sept 1969-March 1970. I cant remember all the brands of strings we sold but two of the most popular were Fender and Gibson. One of the manufactures, I cant remember who, had a manufactures fault and the Ball End was faulty and so the string were giving way at the Ball End and the sales staff were told to tell all Gibson owners to put their strings on and wrap it around the bar and with Fender were told tell the Fender owners to put the end of the string through the ball end hole several times before putting them on the Fender Guitar and that seemed to stop the strings giving way on the Gibson and Fenders.

[@stonodo]

Very enjoyable video. Do you have any updates on the origins of this guitar? Has a follow up video been made? Thanks!

[@JuddLofthouse]

Amazing show only yesterday I was watching your beano guitar post .WOW👍👍👌👌

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks Judd!

[@JuddLofthouse]

You 2 guys really know your stuff reading some of the comments some people just don’t get it 👍👍keep up the good work

[@jeffholliday8304]

Great show and like everybody else I’m a huge Clapton fan And yes a lot of people are top wrapping The stop bar on my les Paul I just Raised The stopbar and it plays like butter it makes bending a lot easier A lot of people make the mistake of letting the strings hit the back of the bridge before they hit the saddles that’s hard on your strings and the guitar does not play as easy as it should

[@ericbitzer5247]

Hey, I found something you might be interested in from Gibson themselves. I was looking at Gibson Custom 60th anniversary Les Paul and this is what the description said: Les Paul standards from the first third of 1960 (V1) had the same specs as their 1959 counterparts, while the middle (V2) introduced thinner neck profiles, different knobs and brighter colors. The final third (V3) brought about some of the thinnest necks Gibson ever produced, accompanied by wide, colorfast sunburst finishes. That's from Gibson themselves so I hope this helps.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thanks for this Eric

[@redjet4810]

Love Bob's Gibson expertise.

[@ToddTheJoker]

What I wish you would have commented on is if the original neck PAF pickup was all white covered..that would put it towards the Beano Burst corner I think. Cool video. Be great to know what happened to that guitar.

[@richardturner5463]

Fascinating vid, really enjoyed it. How many more missing famous guitars are there I wonder?

[@CaptainCraigKWMRZ]

Fantastic video guys! As Bob would say, "I love this shit!" Keep digging...

[@CBBluesman]

Fantastic Show as always guys.Awesome playing and tone Ramon.What pedals and amps are you playing through? Cheers from Canada.

[@nickp1548]

'sounds like the pickup's been in the guitar for a long time'!!!!??? Ahhh yes, that bedded in pickup tone!

[@nownow1950]

great show thanks

[@jonathanhandsmusic]

Very interesting indeed. It could be the Beanoburst. Or it could be the Summersburst. I don't think we'll ever know, but it was fun watching you guys talk about the possibilities.

[@jonnybeck6723]

"Deep geekery" ha ha y'all are the best... and yes, it took players and builders alike 70 odd years to make a tunable nut where all but the very worst tuners work just fine... loving this

[@MrCacoluna]

Great content guys. It would be marvelous to see Eric examining and playing her. He will definitely know if it is the true one. And than maybe even say "I finally found you". Trying to reach him is more than worth It. As for the money invested, I'm pretty sure it will be all figured out between all parts evolved.

[@dominou01]

I would bet that the appearance of the guitar was slightly modified to be harder to recognize. Great video guys, as always!

[@playpaulbee]

On the subjectof top wrapping, I haven't read any forums on this, but having seen it in practise thought I'd try it on a late 70's Deluxe, I can't swear to a difference in string tension or feel, but this particular guitar now holds tuning better,so you tell me !

[@davidcollin1436]

People were making sunbursts out of gold tops in 1972 in San Francisco Bay Area. I watched one being created at a shop by a luthier that worked on my D41. Later they showed me the finished product and let me play it. Quite nice and with a beautiful curly ribbon top after the finish was removed. Thus an $800 dollar Les Paul became $2,000+. My stock white 25th anniversary LP went with me to London and fetched $2,500 in 76. Cost with case in SF at the time new with heavy bargaining was $550 out the door. I immediately bought another for the same upon return and traded it for a 1961 Byrdland. The sunbursts were a tribute to Beano which was revered as well back then.

[@ernieflanaganstingraybassm1463]

My Les-Paul is real 1959 and the 1960's some were mixed 60 body,59 necks. Nice guitar my friends, ps i had a 59 les paul jr Tobbaco sunburst and i had it leaning against my white Marshall stack and it fell over and the headstock broke off. cause back in the 70s my Jr was purchased from my dads guitar player and i had it fixed by one of the only certified luthers and amp repairs in Chicago, Il ps i still have my flame top 59 that my dad gave me when i was seven........

[@thebeans7846]

Enjoyed this twice! Hope you can do a follow up with the neck pickup and wish an extensive black light exam could be video worthy.

[@jamescarter4175]

Thanks! That was very interesting. I've never tried top wrapping, but it makes sense that it would give a more slinky feeling to the strings since top wrapping reduces the angle of the string crossing over the saddle so would reduce the force pushing the string down onto the saddle.

[@AdvenuringTime]

Yeah by reducing the break angle of the string you decrease the proportion of the downward force onto the bridge. The overall tension of the string should change but since it can slide against the bridge with less force that could make it feel more slinky.

[@metalmulisha0143]

2 more huge telltale signs you didn't go into - the neck tenon on the tomato soup 60 Les Pauls (later 1960) were a short cut off tenon as opposed to a 59 with the long tenon. That would instantly tell you the year or at least give you a better idea. Also the original neck pickup bobbin colour as the tomato soup 60 would only be black coils as on the summer's/fresh cream burst. On late 1960 Les Pauls, the reflector knobs would also be there as on the summer's guitar, but as the pots have been messed with and one changed, it'd be feasible that the original knobs were also changed.

[@BeesWaxMinder]

They state, later on in the comments section, that both bobbins are Black👍

[@frankscutari9516]

I want to play guitar just like the guy on the left he's awesome!

[@frankscutari9516]

You're very welcome

[@jupitermoongauge4055]

That spoonful at the start of the show was epic

[@TheGuitarShow]

Aww thanks so much!

[@vadenk4433]

With a good repair the stability is going to increase which helps correct tuning and intonation issues. You’ll get less flex under string tension. The glue acts like a strut and stiffens it up considerably

[@leftchicago]

"We're going to deep geekery, here..." A man after my own heart.

[@keyscook]

Whew... Ultimate guitar geekery! Cheers from Seattle 🍻

[@georgeshaw8925]

Great video.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thank you George

[@kennethbourne2766]

Thanks 4 Sharon.🌞

[@bobburke1799]

R.i.p.Eddie van Halen' yes !! i like you guys ! 👍..from an American 🇺🇸

[@moose6676]

True words, you can’t be to sure what’s out there. Enjoyed your video thanks, subscribed.👍🏻

[@rjlong89]

Nice guitar. SOMEBODY give Eric a ring

[@carnivaltym]

Exactly!

[@Mikeyorkmusic]

There’s still a C+A in Amsterdam: Damrak 79, 1012 LM Amsterdam, Netherlands

[@jayeagle8363]

Probly a 59 that got messed up and whille they where spraying the neck to hide the brake ..they sprayed the whole thing. Added the red burst ,and the headstock was oversanded (looks smaller). Cheers 👍

[@stuartpenney6829]

Another great video guys. Looking at the Top Gear ads in Melody Maker from the early 70s they were advertising what they called an "Original Gibson Les Paul Standard" for £285 which even then was double the price of every other guitar in the shop. And right through the 70s these guitars were selling for around £400, which seemed a huge amount of money at the time, when a vintage 50s Strat could be bought for £100 or so.

[@Rockbeareguitars]

Stuart Penney When I acquired my 61/62 Shoreline Gold Strat in the early-mid Seventies for £180, the seller was also offering what I now know to have been a ‘60 ‘burst for £300. Sadly I had to decline as that was more than two months’ wages 😢

[@billygoatgruff2554]

Rockbeareguitars I bought my first Strat from Marshalls in 1968. It had 2 July 1962 on the dusty end of the neck. Serial number 78371. I paid fifty quid and got it as a back up guitar for my Gretsch Jet Firebird. Dropped the Gretsch one day, snapped the neck, my dad repaired it and I swapped it with Jim Marshall for a PA amp. He then sold it to a guy from Edison Lighthouse who were a 'pop group'. I carried on just using the Strat for quite a few years but sold it in 1977 for £180 and bought a Les Paul deluxe Goldtop. Cheers Bob, Keef. P.s... I got the Gretsch guitar from Pan Music for 65 guineas in 1967... 🍻

[@joeharcourt6861]

I love these pair, it’s like a caricature of vintage guitar collectors. I’d love to know what wine would pair best with the tomato souper

[@ronfrey5327]

The original owners Whine ?

[@1972luap]

I saw the first drought of this video and i love your insights . i wondered the same thing when joe bonamassa found the the red painted gibson les paul. i love see how bob;s mind works. I drop my les paul tails down to get the resonant off the body and the wrap around gives me the break angle. P.s you can do the same thing with strats and teles on the high B and E by removing the string tree if the nut is cut right. ..... i love these videos showing horses for courses. Like bob sayes if it is fake Coo dose.

[@egnbigdave]

Just a thought (and Im no expert). Could the fact the serial number being obscured/removed point towards it being stolen at some point, to cover its identity?

[@jimherleva4541]

Possibly, but it is worth considering that a headstock break might have been replaced with a remade headstock - so no serial number. Paul Kossoff's 59 is the same, broken stock replaced by a custom stock - no serial number.

[@egnbigdave]

@@jimherleva4541 True, but the fact that there apears to be a "ghost" of what could be a serial number does raise questions

[@jimherleva4541]

@@egnbigdave Well, that does change things. Must have missed that bit!

[@mrmanch204]

I would have thought a Luthier capable of repairing a neck break would be able to avoid sanding off the serial number and know it is important to preserve the identity of the guitar..... This is a great presentation, thanks boys.

[@wallywanker7435]

@@mrmanch204 not so much, back then no one cared about serial numbers ,it was just a guitar . No one knew 60 years later they would be what they are today. Could of gobbled it with glue took it to a sander and smoothed it all out not careing about serial numbers or if it shaved the headstock down a little.

[@mdavis2703]

There's a photo in Tony Bacon's book "Sunburst" of Eric sitting on the ground playing the Summers burst. It looks very similar and it even looks like it has an unrepaired headstock break.

[@joea9608]

I believe the key to discovering if this is the Summers Burst is in the photo of Clapton with it around the 33:56 mark & the patterns on the inlays which can be a fingerprint like the wood grain. The third fret inlay in particular has a mark between the A & D strings. It's difficult to tell from the images here but I looks to me a like there could be a similar marking in the guitar in question. Also the headstock in the same photo appears to be a little out of shape... possible "corrected" a bit during the second repair? I'm feeling like there's a good chance of it being the Summers Burst.. at least from here

[@fongy200]

The Bridge wrapping question is like the which is the heaviest a pound of Lead or a pound of Feathers one.Tension is tension, it will be the same wrapped around or run through the tailpiece. The Action may be affected but the tension will be the same.

[@fongy200]

That said i have a DC jnr that's top wrapped but it does have a Molita on it. The wiring is kind of 50's fashion but it's hardly military grade. Had to come back and watch again, great show. It has occured to me that maybe Eric could tell if it was his stolen Guitar? The serial number has clearly been removed. To play Devils advocate wouldn't someone with a stolen item remove the serial number or obvious identifying marks? I suppose God s to busy to be bothered? It may be worth asking though? The owners like "No, no what if he takes a shine to it and wants it, balls to that" lol.

[@lucasdelaluz2159]

Raising the stopbar adjusts the string tension to the player's desire. That's what it's for. A wraparound sets the angle to the equivalent of raising the stopbar to its higher level thus lessening the string tension. If you bend strings you can feel the difference straight away.

[@daviddequasie6816]

I've got a 1967 ES -175 with a headstock repair. I noticed immediately that it sounded better with the repair.

[@TheGuitarShow]

ah thats brilliant - yes Ive heard this a lot from owners of repaired guitars

[@putzengiler]

There probably wouldn't have had as many neck breakages back in the day if they had good strap locks and locking Hercules style guitar stands...

[@funeralbillii9172]

And much less drugs, lol

[@alanohagan6999]

What a great vid - I’d love to see how the story ends

[@orbitaljellyfish808]

Top wrap slinkyness is because 1) there’s slightly more string available to stretch and 2) that extra length’s effective end point slowly wraps around a radius, rather than ending at one point where a shoulder retains the string ferrule. So much for universities lol

[@thatphotographyguy9900]

Wonderful video guys, very well done, so refreshing to not have another 'gear' video. Question: The neck pickup (that isnt working) what colour are the bobbins ?

[@BeesWaxMinder]

black

[@MoPomer]

Dick Knight, a British luthier, was making sun burst copies in 72 (I'm told, but fat lot I know). I think he made one for Keef, as well as a few others. That's where (and when) mine is from. His work tends to fall apart at the seem, which is how a few of his have been exposed.

[@therover4141]

The original bridge may have started collapseing top wrapping helps those old ABR1 bridges from collapseing.

[@bee.normal]

17:45 Topwrapping: the tension doesn't change but the friction of the string against the saddles does (it's decreased). This makes for easier bendings, vibrato, etc. as the string is more free to move.

[@vegashdrider]

Bending the strings resulting in higher pitch is not due to the string moving or stretching, bending the strings increases the tension between two points, just as if you were tightening the tuners, not to mention if the strings were actually moving on the saddles the strings would break frequently

[@guitarjonathan]

Very cool video.

[@joeg5507]

Thieves have tend to remove serial numbers, just sayin'.

[@ronfrey5327]

Yes and overspray them no kidding this guitar is STOLEN and they know it which makes me wonder about why they would do this to begin with nothing worse on earth then a thief.. except maybe someone holding a stolen guitar back and I have no respect for either one lower then snake shit.........

[@jimherleva4541]

Not necessarily, Paul Kossoff's '59 has no serial number because the headstock break was replaced with a remade headstock, not the original one - so no serial number.

[@fongy200]

@@jimherleva4541 Now you mention it, didn't Kossoff get a 58 Burst from Clapton?

[@connor_selby]

@@fongy200 yes the dark burst that Paul Rodgers after kossoffs death owned until 2000ish and is now owned by a private collector as far as I know

[@thomasfreytag6784]

Hi, I saw that already some people mentioned that this likely is not the Summers Burst, as it is (was) lately owned by Drew Berlin, one of the Burst Brothers (vintage Les Paul collectors/dealers). Let me give you guys some more details about what public information is available: In the Burst Believers II book, which was published by Vic DaPra in 2014, Drew wrote a feature article on this very guitar on page 14 and 15 where he explains the story of the Summers Burst guitar, featuring high resolution pictures of its current state. Here is quoted what he had to say about its time after Clapton: "Okay, so it's clear that this Burst was used on Fresh Cream, but why was it not used again in the rest of Cream's short-lived career? In trying to understand these facts for myself, I traced the path this Burst took to New York City, 1967, where Eric and Cream were at the time. The road crew dropped the Fresh Cream/Summers Burst, and the headstock broke off. They then brought it to Dan Armstrong to have it repaired. He in turn, gave it to the best luthier in New York City, for whom no job was impossible. His name is Matt Umanov. Matt was very young when he discovered his talent for luthiery. The combination of his skills and talent were brought to the attention of world-class guitar players in need of the best sounding instruments. He quickly gained the reputation as the go-to guy in the New York area for restoration and repair of pre-war to current musical instruments. So Matt was clearly the guy to turn to in this situation. So here's where the story gets interesting. When Dan Armstrong asked Matt to take up the challenge and repair the broken headstock, Matt realised at the time that the headstock could no longer be grafted back on to the guitar, due to the severity of the break. He then asked Dan if he could get creative with this project, to which Dan gave his approval. With Matt's history of passion and appreciation for pre-war Gibson mandolins, he thought it would be cool to replace the headstock with a Gibson F4 mandolin headstock. And so it was to be." The article ends at this point and doesn't give any further details on what happened after the repair, and why or when Clapton didn't use the guitar any more after the repair, however the photos in the book show details of the headstock. It is as described by Drew a flourished F4-mandolin styled headstock, with Eric Clapton inlayed instead of the Gibson Logo and a weird looking inlay, which seems to be a shilouette of a female head wearing a laurel wreath or crown, like some design one would find on an old metal coin. There is also a high resolution picture of the figuring on the top on this guitar, next to the black and white picture of Andy Summers playing it, and the grain matches up pretty well, not to mention open coil double black PAFs as Clapton used to play it. Honestly, I find the headstock weird and that might be a reason that Eric let it go, but the Burst itself is incredible. Crazy figuring, intense tomato soup colouring and of course highest provenance.

[@kravitz1999]

Great post man! Vic DaPra owes you a Christmas ham because I'm buying that book series! Thanks again for the info!

[@johnbristow4981]

​@@kravitz1999 👍

[@Johnny-oy9fh]

Top wrapping the bridge reduces the break angle and string tension over the neck. As a result you can the use heavier strings...

[@brucereed8368]

Good point. I top-wrap my '69 LP Custom, but only because it has a rather steep neck angle and the ABR-1 bridge is fairly high off the body. Even when top-wrapping it there is still a decent break angle, so I do that in order to drop the stop tailpiece to the body.

[@greatsilentwatcher]

Glad you're highlight this sort of thing. Good music, musicianship needs to be revived.

[@TheGuitarShow]

Thank you

[@MichaelWatts]

“We’ll do a zoom” Doesn’t do a zoom Now I’m sad...

[@TheGuitarShow]

You can't always get what you want (M. Jagger circa 1967)

[@TheSavagederek]

I know very little regards Les Paul's so love the knowledge you have, and your passion for them, as I feel the same way about Stratocasters. Brilliant video.

[@richardcoates4751]

That was bad-ass!!!

[@fongy200]

I agree about the tail stop bar but i think the break angle at that area of the guitar is far better than the headstock, the break angle on a Gibson headstock is extreme, i use string butlers on mine and find it works in terms of holding tune, they even keep the old Klusons stable and aids string retention.