Three Way Queen Mating Nucs: How & Why

[@gregcundiff]

Good looking box. I made several two-way 5 frame deeps (Luan divider in the middle) with opposing entrances last year to start nucs and for queen mating, they worked much better than I expected but were kind of cumbersome and initially difficult to go through, so I cut a piece of coroplast sign material to lay over one side while I worked the other, that helped tremendously. I didn't plan to move them so I didn't attach the bottom to the box, which made it easier when it was time to separate them and swap the two-way bottom for a regular bottom-board. I'm always intrigued watching your videos, thanks for sharing your wealth of information.

[@davidford8049]

Thanks for providing insight on these mating nuc’s. I have the 3 way with screened bottom board and the individual covers. I like the idea of having just the one cover and will look into that option.

[@Drewjober]

I saw you and those boxes there. They are so perfect. I made 6 of those in 23, with 4 slots 3 or 5 frames, they worked great. I made the screens same size. I think The screen helps to keep them from swarming a little, I made 1 box without the screens and they swarmed once. I did the dividers above with several inner lids. If you would have had those in 2023 it would’ve saved me a lot of time.

[@russellaymond312]

Good morning Bob and crew. Always good to learn how someone else does things. You might like that way better than you're on way. Thanks for sharing .

[@oscarvilla6841]

Thank you, I think the changes to the queen castle on this hive are fantastic! I will put some of these hives on my new years 'wish list'

[@wpankey57]

It was great seeing you at the Expo. Your talks were great.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks. It was a busy weekend.

[@pastormike1971]

Perfect! Just bought one at the Expo!! Great to see and to hear you!!! Thank you!!

[@drliptak1]

These boxes are beautiful. I'd live in them! Most on the market have fixed (non-removable) inserts, which can make management maddening and challenging and the flimsy, fixed inserts eventually warp over time. I used canvas for the inner cover (we have tons of sailmakers in Charleston, so canvas is readily available). When I used these ( I go with 5 frame now), I wound up not using the middle chamber so it was nice to hear you say you would go with the two chamber box. I kept records and the middle chamber had tepid results with mating success (queens returning from mating flights) so I shelved it and just used the two outer chambers. In a small operation, that has a huge impact. I hate to bring up SHB again but the size of these mating chambers makes for a ripe target for our beetle population here , stressing out an already stressed nuc. but thats part of beekeeping in my location.

[@hillkid4mountains]

Hello Bob, another great video on a topic that I can really relate to. Kind of a been there done that thing but with a whole new and unique approach based on your ideas and 4 decades of experience. Lol. First of all when I got enough years under my belt I used several different methods of rearing queens from cells. I was fortunate to have worked alongside a half dozen commercial beekeepers raising queens exactly like this. So much of what you talked about today I took in on my own over time. My mentor who I worked with as a carpenter until he hung up his hammer and turned his retiring dad's beekeeping outfit of 200 hives into 2,000 +- over the years with his brother was a great influence. Also working alongside Randy Oliver on and off from our bee club was a great and rewarding experience. First early on, I bought a deep box made with 2 dividers and 3 chambers like yours from Steve and Sandy Forrest of Marovian Falls, North Carolina back in the early 1990's from Brushy Mountain Bee Supply. It had round holes drilled in the same spots much like your entrances but different, yours being 1-3/4" inch slots instead. I myself have gotten used to and like to use individual 5 frame deep wooden nuc boxes but in much smaller quantities as you staggered throughout my bee yard spaced at diverse angles but with different colored painted 3/4" reducers in the front so queens can orientate and find their way back home after mating flights. With Randy, he usually had 2 five frame deep nucs side by side but at 180° degrees next to each other. He would work both of them at the same time, putting in grafted cells and finding then caging queens in many of his 24 colony out yards during the day. He also taught me his setup of two 4 or 5 frame nucs installed into one single deep box with entrances on each side of the front like yours. He used a follower board of a 1/2" plywood I think with a 5/8"plus skinny top bar to go all the way over to his frame rests to separate each compartment not allowing any intermixing. My carpenter mentor showed me and used the same method but with entrances caddy-cornered on the opposite front/backs of the box with the same masonite with dadoed slots into the middle insides like you. In making up these 2 in 1 deep nuc boxes we folded up and slightly jammed colored magazine pages rather than black & white regular newspaper into the length/width of our 2-1/2" entrances so that it was harder for the bees not to chew up until transported to another yard and pulling out the paper so they could fly again putting in 9/10 day old bought queen cells in after experiencing queenlessness usually by the next first day or 2nd. Always keeping them cool by relocating to a shady spot in the yard we were working or under the flatbed truck until we're finished, loaded up, and then driving away having the open air on the road to keep them from overheating. I used both the 1/2" follower boards and 1/4" masonite often found on my jobsites for free. Because of the ability of them to absorb moisture and curve, I would dip them into hot wax, electric hit melting steel box borrowed from RO, like some my other equipment like lids, bottom boards, and boxes and weight down to keep flat until dry. I like how you added and stapled an extra strip the length at the top of your masonite inserts to eliminate this potential problem. Sometimes I just used a stick or piece of wood to keep them from bowing just like you used with your plastic in-hive cap and ladder feeders. Finally I woukd use bottom boards with T&G cedar from Dadant, same from my migratory lids, or oiled up 3/4" HDO form plywood from the poured-in-place concrete walls and bridge jobs that I worked on over the years, but with 2" x 2" ripped treated cleats under, mudsill, in the front and back per Randy Oliver design. Because I used 3/4" beeways and 22" bottom boards I split the difference in length of a 20" long deep box and centered each one which leaving a 1" landing board platform on both ends. Then I would use 12" beeway reducers from the corners of each end in opposite directions front and back if you can understand/imagine that? So a little diverse, I like your 3 chamber style multiple queen mating nucs in a deep, the ventilation screening, the design and construction of your bottom boards, and the top lids with 3 holes over each compartment to feed sugar syrup is great. Note: maybe a canning jar ring hot glued underneath your screened bottom board hole might work out better instead of cutting out the center of a regular one? As a sideliner if I were closer to you, not here in California, and not a carpenter who could cut and make his own equipment, I would definitely buy your setup to raise my own queens like you have shared. Also you mentioned 4 frame nucs. Michael Palmer has an excellent presentation at home in his yard talking about how he uses 2 four frame isolated nucs side by side above a deep. He raises several queens from cells in each nuc, lets them buildup at times to pull capped brood and bees to bolster other hives on a regular basis, and sometimes will drop the entire nuc into a colony struggling or is a queenless one. He also has a lecture in front if an audience where he explains how he goes about cutting up1"x12"x 12'ft. long wood boards and building his own hive bix and other equipment in the very cold state of Vermont in the northeastern part of the US. He also uses Caucasian queens and stock for his snowy winters there. On a less than positive note, I did work for another beekeeper a long time ago and again learned many new things. What was tough was working his six to a pallet double deep colonies. A pain to work that middle hive on both sides. Also he used a medium 10 frame medium box setup like you mentioned. Something that you said you would liked to have tried in your past maybe. I didn't particularly like his commercial configuration of this because he had dividers to separate 4 chambers within the inside if a medium box instead of just 2 liked you talked about. Four different small entrances, 3 small mini frames per section, a plastic pint drinking bottle cut in half with straw for feeding sugar syrup, and just a handful of bees, about a cup. We would go out every two weeks with a crew if six, pull queens, place new cells into the tiny sections, and repeat about 5 to 7 times until everything dried up here in June. So just like you stated, not enough bees to feed new queens royal jelly, not enough time for them to hatch, go out on mating flights especially if weather was a problem, then if one or more spots in this setup didn't have any viable queens you had no new nurse bees hatched to take care of a second, 3rd, 4th new cell introduction. A terrible way to go about queen rearing in my opinion. But working for money, experience, when I was between construction jobs for a couple of weeks in the summer, this was pair for the course and required chores along with several of his permanent employees taking cell bars into the field, collecting queens, and putting new grafted queen cells done by a very gifted Hispanic woman by the way. Thus after those days of stressful experience I take the same stance as you and would not ever buy a newly mated queen from someone using small single individual mating nucs. I like the 5 frame deep mating nuc method with a 3 week laying period to see if a good pattern of eggs are being laid and if some capped brood has occurred. Your sweet spot of 24 to 28 days is a good idea though. I was never in too much of a hurry. Working hard on my bees on the weekend and after when evenings had more sunlight in the summer. I also think and was taught by my mentors and commercial beekeeping friends that thus was like a tried-and-true time tested way to go about raising good queens in in an apairy with good weather and lots of young fertile drones. So I apologize for the lengthy page long comments, but I just wanted to share my experiences over the years in this area and keeping a single apairy in one spot, outside of going into Almond pollination in February and March in the Sacramento valley with the 100 to 150 plus colonies on 4-way pallets at the peak of my Beeking here in the hills of the Sierra Nevada in Northern California. Thanks! P.S. Bob I also had Dadant, Mann Lake, and other individual beekeeping people make equipment such as boxes with no handholds with select lumber over the years that I bought and built by myself broken down if course. One thing I noticed on your boxes in this video was, to me, an imperfection with the way they use to make the upper 3/8" x 5/8" x 16-1/4" frame rest at the top of each end of the front and back if your boxes. That small sliver of wood would crack, break off, or bow out sometimes for me. Needing to drill a pilot hole and install a couple of electroplated smooth 8d nails and sink the with a punch as not to dull your hive tool when scraping propolis or excessive wax buildup. I instead started looking for bee suppliers that stock frontand back end boards with that top of the frame rest milled together with the first finger joint down in combination as one piece. I believe it is so much stonger, less apt to crack, splitter off at the top and warp. I hope you can understand what I am saying here. Finger joint with just the 5/8" tall top tip and 3/8" thick vs one that is finger jointed longer in width a rabbit 3/8" thick and as wide as a 1-3/8" or maybe 1-5/8" depending on what all the widths of the remaining finger joints down to the bottom of front and back boardsat the bottom, the full 3/4" square cut at the measurement of 9-5/8" and 6-5/8" inches respectfully. Many times I've had to pull those nails at the top of a front or back in those fragile ears, stand the the box up tall on my table saw and rip off that 3/8" x 5/8" piece of wood and cut a new piece of wood, predrill, glue, and renail to save the box. Thanks again and let me know about what you think.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks for this good comment. Lots of ideas. I do agree on those upper ears, got to be careful.

[@Manuherikiabeekeeping]

Hi from southern New Zealand 👋 very interesting, these look fantastic for raising queens and very well thought out and constructed. I use older but still good deeps with a larger center split board to create two four frame queen raising units and I find it useful for the few queens I need to raise myself, I also use a brand new plastic excluder on top it's the only time I use them, I prefer metal excluders for anything else, but if I need to put feed on them but all my equipment is deeps so it's personally convenient for me and I have great results with that. My units have a solid floor with no ventilators but I only use them in cooler weather and I have a dedicated area for queen rearing and mating. Great idea though, very interesting.

[@brucesouthernsassapiaries8316]

Good morning Bob, hope you and the gang had a good NAHBE and trip back down.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks, we had a great time. 👍

[@thomasplummer2673]

I'd give this video and the box design a double or triple thumbs up. Great stuff. Thanks

[@stevesoutdoorworld4340]

Thanks Bob you and i think alike. I like 4 or 5 frame deep boxes nucs for mating queens then all i have to do is transfer them to my 8 frame boxes and i am done! Let's keep bee work fast and simple!😁

[@aileensmith3062]

Although we will never go there. This was quite interesting to watch, Thank You!

[@brianbennett4374]

Happy New Year. Hope you had a good trip at the show this year looking forward to the next video 😊

[@bobbinnie9872]

Happy New year. The Expo was great.

[@alanporter2694]

Nice detailed explanation of the construction and thinking behind it.

[@twenzel420]

Bob, I watch all your videos, this was also a good one. I am from Iowa and will be coming to your store tomorrow, look forward to seeing these boxes. I also hope to meet you . Thanks

[@bobbinnie9872]

I'll be there much of the day. Please ask if I'm there.

[@chuckgross6024]

fellow Iowa beekeeper! 👋👋

[@twenzel420]

Bob, Thank you for meeting me today, it was very surreal to walk in that shop. You youtube videos have reached so many people, that is great you take the time to make them. Was also a bonus meeting your neighbor, I talked to him about japanese knotweed, it is becoming very invasive in Iowa where I am from. Thanks again Bob, God Bless

[@andersonhomestead1534]

You can make a vented cap easily with 1/8 hardware cloth and a canning jar band. The band has no center and is easy to hot glue the cloth into. Enjoyed the NAHBE. Thanks Bob

[@timlewis9873]

I've got a deep with 2/ 4 frame nucs. I will put another box on top to get 2/8 frame colonies, and then try and get them threw the Maine winter. Can't wait. Very good vid. Bob, have a great wk.

[@frankspataro9714]

That should I do it here in the mtns of pa and it works good super em and let em make honey in the spring lol it's not Maine but are bees don't fly from Dec till March dout it can be much different there 11 degrees here and 10 inches of snow on the way we have 6 or 7 right now

[@timlewis9873]

@@frankspataro9714 I'm all brown right now, crazy.

[@richardnoel3141]

Great video. Crammed full of nuggets!!! I’ve stopped using mini nucs completely. Took too much time to manage, they were single boxes and filled up too quick if a flow came along. I just use my nucs now. All universal in size frames. Just a whole lot less problems. Brilliant video. Well filmed too. Oh and happy new year to you and the crew🎉🙏🤩🫶🐝

[@bobbinnie9872]

Happy New Year Richard and thanks. Missed you at the expo.

[@richardnoel3141]

@ missed meeting you too! Fingers crossed for next year , or maybe your trip to Europe? 😁🤩🫶🐝🙏

[@dougpeterson5257]

I cut several 2-way 6 5/8 boxes and am planning to give them a try this year 😊

[@brentstastny5179]

Good morning everyone, It’s no wonder you get so many questions about where to find HDO. It’s is extremely difficult to find and when you do find it, the price is also extremely shocking. I have not used it yet but I definitely see the value in a lid that doesn’t warp for boxes such as this. Thanks for sharing Bob.

[@MeadApiaries]

Regarding the entrance location, I flipped an entrance reducer 180° in the mid day during foraging and the returning bees were momentary confused which tells me they may orientate off the corner of the box as you inferred. They did get it figured out but I felt it was worth mentioning. I guess it also similarly applies to the issues of moving hive locations too far to fast.

[@robinmartin4464]

Another tool in the Beekeeper's tool box! Thank you Mr. Binnie.

[@lambbrookfarm4528]

Happy New Year Bob, thanks for this video. I always like to see your angle on things especially in building bee stuff because I feel pretty sure that what you are building has the input that you and your crew can give through the experience of actually using the equipment.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks and Happy New Year.

[@schammond8993]

My apiary is small. I'm not able to build equipment. After several years of Hard Lessons I learned the hard way all boxes are not created equal😅. You are absolutely correct that well-made equipment sells. It's worth it to make the investment early on. It saves money later. Just a note: I'm hoping yall will open another website to order. Thanks Bob

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks. Building a new website has been a challenge but we're almost there.

[@andrewk1191]

Love watching your videos Bob!

[@emh114]

I love using these, I run 110 of these in the spring here in florida. I didnt like having 3 jars to remove to open them so I built the bottom board to accept the entrance feeders to have the jars on the back sides away from the entrances. My entrances are one on the front and the other 2 on the sides. This has worked well... Id post a pic but cant seem to find the add picture button here on YT

[@beebob1279]

These are easier to run than those small four frames cut in half. Just use mediums full length. If a queen gets in your honey supers and lays just put those frames in the mating boxes and keep the wax moths out of the comb. My mentor told me to pay a little more for tested queens.

[@garryforsythe6274]

I have some queen castles from the Walter Kelly Co that I purchased several years ago. Yours look to be better built and mine came without the lid.

[@chuckgross6024]

interesting points of view Bob, Thanks for sharing.

[@sweettsbees]

I love this design. Let us know if you ever put this into retail. I am looking for a effective way of getting queens mated.

[@bobbinnie9872]

We have them in our store now priced at $100.00. If interested call 706 782 6722.

[@MurrayandPeggyGolden]

Just a thought. Could add a third slot on each end so could use as a two way nuc, four frames in each side. Would or could need to also shift the center entrance. In this configuration one would have just one entrance on opposite ends. User can have a regular super, a two way or a three way.

[@armymutt25A]

Thank you for the timely video. I have a couple of these that I'm going to try out this spring. Mine have individual inners with feeder holes that are made out of PVC. The ventilation holes are located front and back. My plan on these are to use them for mating, give her a few days to start laying and then move the three frames into a 5-frame nuc for the 28 days. Do you see any production issue there? I figure that gives enough time to verify that she is laying and then gives room for expansion and for a new queen cell to be put in the chamber.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Seems like a decent plan. These are efficient for filling with bees and brood in the main yards and moving to a good mating site.

[@lenturtle7954]

Beautiful woodwork .🎉

[@Velacreations]

Chris Werner's method of using a screen inner cover is a good, cheap way to get an inner cover, if you need it. Reflectix also works well, burlap works fine, too.

[@bryanbetournay5557]

I Love it. Thanks Bob. Happy New Year! Hoping your 2025 season is the best yet.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Happy New Year!

[@kipglass6222]

Because of randomness of returning queens, I would like to see the two outside nuc entrances to the opposite sides of the box. Posted this before the end. Each point is well taken.

[@Drewjober]

So many options and attention to detail.

[@carloscrenz9433]

Hola Bob que lindo es espectacular el vídeo yo también me crío mis propias Reinas para mis colmenas 👏👏👏👏👍🐝💪🇦🇷

[@TripleJFarmsTX]

When will these be available in your store?

[@bobbinnie9872]

We have them now for $100.00. If interested call 706 782 6722. Thanks.

[@johnrollins6698]

Bob how many holes would you put in feeder jar lids?

[@bobbinnie9872]

For these, one or two, 2 penny nail holes.

[@johnrollins6698]

Thank you 👍

[@glockky1]

When are you opening a online store and shipping equipment?

[@bobbinnie9872]

We think we will have it up within a month. The process has been more challenging than we suspected. I'll announce it on this channel when we get it up. You can order over the phone now if you like. 706 782 6722. Thanks.

[@altaylor293]

Happy New Year Bob. Great video. Quick question. You mentioned several items were made of pressure treated wood. Are there limitations on what you use pressure treated for that doesn't impact the bees?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Hi Al. Happy New Year. I'm honestly not sure but it seems like you would want to keep it to a minimum. We occasionally use it for spacing strips on bottom boards but in this case we did not and used HDO strips and only have pressure treated pieces on the exterior.

[@altaylor293]

@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks

[@razvojbioland4255]

8 frame deep super does well with 4 frames on easch side(very thi divider board) And it's great, 4 frames are onough space and for some time for laying eggs... Thank you for your great endeavour

[@MurrayandPeggyGolden]

Would also need to rethink the bottom of dividers to be able to block at the center.

[@robertdemers5125]

Good Morning Bob !

[@bobbinnie9872]

Good morning sir!

[@framcesmoore]

Ha Bob I think the box is going to sale good, I would be very interested in getting some for my self do u know your web page for bee keeping supplies is not working. It has been down for a long time now. Hope u get it fixed soon. so u can sale lots of equipment. Hope u had a good time at the expo. I sent u a email hoping u see it and respond it was to long to put on here. U make good equipment I have several different pieces of equipment I have gotten from you and everything I have gotten is just wonderfully made. Hope u have a Blessed week and looking forward to the next video. Thanks again for making them and sharing with all of us.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Hi Frances. Our new website won't be long now. The expo was great.

[@bj8342]

I have a similar box - the only difference is I added a slot and bottom rail just off center with the ability to block the center entrance hole giving me a 4 frame and 5 frame configuration.

[@bobbinnie9872]

That could be useful. I might add that to the next batch.👍

[@FudgeADV]

Add screen underneath that bottom board. Now you have a double screen board.

[@BeeOleg1890]

Так, хороша ідея в одному корпусі тримати три відводки з матками через розділювачі. Дякую!

[@overlookproduceandfarmadve5455]

I thought the screen bottom was a double screen board so you could put them on another hive if your making queens early when it's still colder.

[@bobbinnie9872]

It could easily be that.

[@pawelcc38]

👍👍👍

[@jareddoucet1656]

Do you sell these?

[@bobbinnie9872]

We do. They are $100.00 each. If interested you can from our store at 706 782 6722.

[@Bluegrass499]

I like it !

[@ГлебПисаренко-х6ь]

СПАСИБО THANKS

[@toprakanaciftligi8037]

❤❤❤❤

[@RayMcCoy-Redskin21]

The extra brood is more than likely best used to rebuild the nucs That failed to raise a new queen

[@scottweymouth4026]

NICE!

[@hootervillehoneybees8664]

Definitely needs a foamy inter cover imo

[@bobbinnie9872]

What type of foam would you use?

[@abram8808]

I'll buy it

[@bobbinnie9872]

Available in our store if you would like to call. 706 782 6722.

[@UltFrizz]

I am a professional Queen breeder, and this is the only way to do it

[@UltFrizz]

Only difference, I have separate lids for each. So I only disturb one colony at a time

[@aaronparis4714]

And there are not enough bees in them small baby nucs too

[@aaronparis4714]

You have a coat on must be getting chilly 😅

[@bobbinnie9872]

Yes, cool for us anyway.

[@ricksutton2902]

The first