Dave Grohl Recording Secret...SSSHHH.

In this episode I show you how to record a secret drumming technique in the studio used by Dave Grohl, Jeff Lynne, Mutt Lange, and other huge producers and drummers.

[@janjohansenmusic]

”Third arm” 😂

[@sottovoce4]

This Channel has Raised the bar so high on Music Mixing/producing/engineering and now even mastering, that I can't even remember what my second favorite was!

[@BobbyHuff]

Haha! Thanks so much Scorpio. I appreciate u watching!!

[@cederickforsberg5840]

Always possible to do a mid-way between these! You can do like Slayer did on first album. They recorded drums "normally" but skipped the crash cymbals. Then recorded the crash cymbals aftwards :)

[@LylaTheLich]

That was usually just because Dave was unwilling to use darker cymbals, he uses this Paiste Rude cymbals which are fucking ridiculously bright, loud, and heavy, so they ruined the recording because nothing else could be heard

[@damionchrist]

@@LylaTheLich - That sure didn’t happen on any other albums after Show No Mercy. His Paiste Rudes didn’t ruin shit!

[@jimosberg3769]

Great video. It's interesting that Mutt, Jeff Lynne, and Grohl all came to this technique for different reasons. Mutt did it to get some live feel to programmed drums, Lynne said he prefers layering drums starting with the hi hat instead of playing all the parts at once, and obviously Grohl did it for the reasons stated in the video.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yeah agreed. They are all personal favorites and I love the way they use the studio itself as an instrument for different sounds and textures. Even easier now for us with DAWS. Not so easy on tape, or Fairlight back when Mutt and Jeff Lynne we’re doing it.

[@maxmileski1248]

P Gabriel and Lillywhite had to solve the problem differently in a much earlier time. With limited tracks and a subjective, mild disdain for cymbals in general, Gabriel instructed his drummers on #3/ Melt simply not to play cymbals at all. They were able to crank the room mic at the Townhouse, stumbled onto that ‘Padham/in the Air Tonight’ drum gate and insinuated the vibe of crashes with guitar chords splashing on the pertinent down beats & changes.

[@Thorley666]

So grohl got this from josh homme. They use pads in place of the cymbals or shell they don’t want record so they can still keep the feel. They at least did this with Joey C. I’ve seen Hawkins do it without the pads on a sonic highways track. Grohl played cymbals Taylor shells

[@sandersonstunes]

4:49 When your drummer has 3 arms to hit both crashes and the snare at the same time.

[@BobbyHuff]

Exactly!! I often like to hear crashes in both the left and the right side of the stereo field.

[@ericmsandoval]

Nothing happened at 4:49..?

[@ianslingshot]

I noticed this too, when he does the snare rolls he keeps playing the crash which would be impossible to play, when they usually do this they replace the cymbals or shells with pillows so you can still play the cymbals/snare when doing each take, I think I watched a thing where Eric Valentine explained how Dave used electric drum pads rather than pillows when doing this.

[@lt.loomis8176]

Pretty sure Andy Wallace used to use snare room mic samples to get a more ambient sound for Dave. And the in Utero sound featured a similar technique but with a short delay on it. Eric Valentine talked about this too in his videos.

[@Fos3tex]

You're not a half bad drummer. Pretty good in fact! Then again,. we drummers make great engineers!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Phil! I’ve been playing a few years! Haha

[@oscarg8119]

Sometimes....But more often engineers make great drummers.

[@RandyWillcox]

It's very cool. I just heard Dave talk about this recently. The only thing to be aware of is the famous "what happens when a guitar player programs drums" scenario like at 8:35 when you have both sticks hitting cymbals at the same time you're hitting the snare in the other track, unless it's intentional, of course.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yeah exactly. There are certainly times in recording where I enjoy having crash cymbal’s coming out of both sides of the stereo field .

[@o.b.v.i.u.s]

making good recordings has NOTHING to do with making sure a drum part is executable, or logical, or possible, or feasible... that's for geeks to spend time geeking out over... making good records is all about EMOTIONAL CONNECTION... anything else ~~i repeat, ANYTHING ELSE~~ is ßµ££$hit... nobody, nobody, NOBODY is EVER gonna say "I'm not gonna buy the new Foo Fighters song 'cuz at 3:22 two cymbals hit at the same time as the snare... they cheat!"

[@BobbyHuff]

@@o.b.v.i.u.s hahaha! Totally agree...totally!

[@RandyWillcox]

@@o.b.v.i.u.s Nope. But, if you ignore it completely in the process, you absolutely run the risk of having something just sound ridiculous. Nothing about my statement was an absolute. Hence, "unless it's intentional, of course." But many people aim to have their programmed drums be undetectable. And if that's the goal, it's absolutely something to pay attention to. That was exactly the point of my comment. That people should be aware of it. What they choose to do with that information is up to them. You can do anything you want with technology. But for people going for realism, that's something that's often overlooked. If you know it's there and dig it, that's cool. But when you're really proud of what you've done and that drummer friend who plays like Vinnie Colaiuta points out such an instance, you might find yourself disappointed you didn't think of that. So again, it's useful information for people who do give a shit. It's not nonsense. Sometimes the lengths an artist wishes to go to to create their music matters greatly to them. Nobody is perfect. Mozart wrote chords for violin without the understanding that it couldn't be executed as intended. So the duties simply got split among multiple instruments. And yes, most people won't know. But for anyone watching this and wanting their parts to program like an actual drummer played it, it's a detail to pay attention to. Wanna go nuts with layers? Fine! Nobody holds it against Alex Van Halen for Hot For Teacher! But being aware of it also means you can be even more creative with creating those same layers.

[@skeletonmodel]

@@RandyWillcox I was thinking the exact same thing: During the fills there is a cymbal too many, and the ending as well, what bodypart would be used to hit the snare... :D For this great video it's too much in detail ofcourse. Me personally, when recording, I would use dummypads on the cymbals and vice versa on the snare/toms so that the actual parts and timing are a little more natural. Though the lack of real 'feel' of those could get in the way of fast fills I guess

[@chardrum]

Bobby I met Dave back in 2007 at a gig and we talked about this very thing. Me being session drummer and bringing up recording. I said I had been working on the tab for No One Knows. Dave said the thing with that song is we put up pads where the cymbals were and recorded it then put up pads where the drums were then recorded that. Mixed together to get the separation. We talked about all kinds of drum stuff but that stood out. Recording all the time now I even do whole drum tracks one drum or cymbal at a time in the studio...now that's a trick!

[@BobbyHuff]

That’s awesome Charlie!! Thanks for that great story man!!

[@1shannonleggette]

Wow. Great video. And also great recording. Really enjoy the stuff thanks

[@Dejoblue]

I thought this video was going to be about Dave recording himself saying "shhhh" and then flipping the phase to cancel out the cymbals in the room mic track, lol!

[@BobbyHuff]

Hahahaha!!! You’re killin me!!!! Hilarious!!!!

[@mjk5254]

that's genius!

[@zionerick9414]

I know Im randomly asking but does anyone know a way to log back into an Instagram account?? I was dumb lost the account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!

[@dominikdevin2110]

@Zion Erick Instablaster =)

[@zionerick9414]

@Dominik Devin I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@MarkBlasquez]

This is one of the greatest "hacks" ever. Thank you!

[@stevenron2759]

Simple yet beyond genius

[@borjamuro7745]

hahah 5:52 you need 3 hands to do that! Great vid!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Borja!

[@Ang3_0np4ws]

You just Noticed 1 mistake?

[@DMDvideo10]

I read somewhere that Mick Fleetwood did a lot of drum overdubs to get better separation... Too much emphasis on perfect sound. People have been recording drums all at once for decades.

[@mikecurtis11]

Maybe don't beat the hell out of the ride?

[@freez092also]

Tight drumming man! You're full of all sorts of surprises! ;)

[@BobbyHuff]

That’s better than what some people say I’m full of!!! Thanks for the kind words!!

[@freez092also]

@@BobbyHuff hahaha awesome!! Thanks for all Mutt Lange series of tips! Priceless and amazing stuff for sure! I can't believe he thought to do that stuff back then... especially the snare tricks!

[@creyd93]

Check out the album "and the glass handed kites" by Danish band Mew. Beinhorn produced it - used this same technique. Really great open drum tone... big copper shells I think.

[@BobbyHuff]

Wow great comment! I’ll check it out. Beinhorn rocks!

[@anthonydicarlo9554]

Another great video from Doctor Bob. Great insight on recording drums and great drum sounds for mixing.

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Anthony. It’s really helped clean up a lot of records I’ve worked on!

[@jettjaguar8150]

great playing and content , thanx again for the tips Doc

[@pizall1440]

it is not "bleed" in the room mics. Its just the room mic. Bleed would be hi hit in the snare mic or crash in the toms mics.

[@kadenstevens8213]

Do you think he doesn’t know that?

[@pizall1440]

​@@kadenstevens8213 I think people watching the video might NOT know it. He is using the wrong term while teaching. It should be corrected so as not to misinform.

[@BobbyHuff]

All good!

[@redpillmafia960]

It's really the same advantage you have when using midi drums... the overheads, hi-hat and ride mics are independent from the rest of the kit.. and the kit is the same from the overheads... no over bleed.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes!

[@kaislivesoundchannel4706]

I get it, but what if you just don‘t hit the cymbals as hard in the first place ?

[@BobbyHuff]

Agreed but most drummers don't have John Bonham or Jeff Porcaro's dynamic sensibility!

[@NonetheWiserNJ]

We are talking about drummers here...

[@drmedwuast]

If we're talking about Dave Grohl style, part of the sound is hitting the cymbals as hard as possible

[@BobbyHuff]

@@drmedwuast Not in the studio....

[@drmedwuast]

@@BobbyHuff Well, than that would be one reason less for Dave Grohl to record cymbals separately

[@LylaTheLich]

This technique is A LOT easier on your drummer if you use pieces of an electric kit with the acoustic kit. For your drum take, replace the cymbals with the E Kit cymbals, for the cymbal take, replace the drums with the E Kit drums. That way in the 2 separate takes the drummer can just play the song normally without having to worry about accidentally hitting a cymbal during your drum track or accidentally hitting a drum in your cymbal track

[@BobbyHuff]

Agreed Mason!

[@lordmjh]

Isn't that kind of how Yes recorded Owner of a Lonely Heart? Didn't the drummer for blondie also do something similar for the song Heart of Glass? Still love hearing the comparisons and how every little increment counts. Informative video.

[@BobbyHuff]

Hey. Great comments. Not sure about “Owner of a Lonely Heart.”…great tune and track!! I know for sure that the Blondie song “Call Me,” was dome that way. Clem Burke is a fantastic player!!! Alan White too…

[@dr4d1s]

The secret trick is "ssshhh": Be as good a drummer as Dave Grohl and you are off to a great start. Everything after that is just icing on the cake.

[@BobbyHuff]

Agreed Cody!

[@david_onbass]

What do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians? A drummer. Ba dum tssss.

[@dr4d1s]

@@david_onbass Did you hear about the drummer who locked his keys in his car? It took him four hours to get the bass player out! As a drummer myself, I love when us retarded rhythm sectioners get lumped together. We almost become a fully functioning human.... Almost.

[@spikejones7450]

Acoustic treatment your room Dr. Bob. TY

[@nialletravnik3116]

And get the mic closer.

[@zenosonik]

It already is an acoustically complimentary space for capturing drums. It's not a bedroom he's recording in. I.e. a small room with low ceilings. Dr. Bob knows exactly what he's doing.

[@175kva]

That's how Keith Moon was recorded on "Who are You " , for different reasons though !

[@BobbyHuff]

i didnt know that!

[@leiferickson3183]

That is great! I was pretty sure the secret was to have the drummer play the cymbals quieter. I am certainly happy the secret wasn't fully Martin Hannett!

[@BobbyHuff]

That is an option as well but often the energy suffers especially in driving rock songs.

[@whychromosomesmusic5766]

Never heard of doing this. No surprise there I'm not really a studio tech. Love "Songs of the Deaf." When I was driving around Rutherford Co, TN in the past that CD was playing a lot. I would be singing and pounding drum beats on my steering wheel. Sitting at traffic lights and people probably thought I was a little weird. I think that actually goes with the "territory" so to speak. Nostalgic for those days since I can't drive anymore and I'm currently selling that car. Maybe I could write a song about it? Also was reminded of Spinal Tap by this video and one of the best scenes in it: "But these go to eleven!" ;-) Take care and stay safe out there.

[@BobbyHuff]

thanks man!

[@TRKTKO]

I thought about trying this before it's great for those who aren't the best drummers too, it's nice to be able to focus on individual beats.

[@BobbyHuff]

Agreed Trey!

[@dylandyce8888]

i wish alot of the drummers I've worked with did this. had one drummer do this and it sounded incredible. great content man!!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Dylan!

[@texcokley4177]

I just did this on a song last night. Very interesting. It sounds really good. I had a really good all-around drummer that has recorded a lot and this was the first time he had done this as well. He was very uncomfortable for a while, trying to figure out how to make each part as realistic as he could. Was very fun, and the tracks are very useful. Nice video Bob!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks a lot Tex!

[@bengarland]

I’ve never heard of mic’ing a kick with a woofer. Very interesting.

[@BobbyHuff]

That’s not the only mic. It just picks up the sub frequencies

[@weird_wild_world]

i can barely play an AC/DC beat, but i'm pretty sure i could piece together a Tool level performance with technique applied to the entire kit... i'll be a GOD! lol

[@BobbyHuff]

Haha!!! Do it Capper.

[@wyrlismike]

If you can get the performance you want with this technique then great. I'm not dave grohl and I track with a full band as much as possible. I can't do this, but have heard of it and loved you showing the successful execution of it

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks for watching man!!

[@carlostorres1171]

Not only do you have the control, but you have the benefit of cymbal hits that would otherwise be physically impossible (crash+ride+snare) that the end user probably wouldn't notice anyway except that it sounds nice. And you still have the option of being hyper realist if you want to, and that's great because there are virtually no actual moral imperatives when it comes to music making.Dope!

[@BobbyHuff]

YOU ARE SOOOO CORRECT!!!! YOU HAVE THE RIGHT PERCEPTION OF MAKING RECORDS

[@StevoLloyds]

I notice that you're not playing the HH at all, so would that be in the cymbals take or the shells take?

[@BobbyHuff]

Hey Stevo it can be in either but i prefer it in the cymbals pass. Great question!

[@jackquarantillo5192]

Came here to ask the same.

[@larid1069]

great tips! always walk away with valuable ideas

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks a lot Lari!

[@RecordProducerRob]

always great advice on here. Thanks Doc!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Root!!!

[@jarrahjones4913]

Thanks, Dr Bob, very cool! I hear this is how Pat Mastelotto recorded the drums on XTC's Oranges & Lemons - one of my favourite albums. :)

[@BobbyHuff]

LOVE Pat and Mr. Mister and XTC and King Crimson!!

[@dpinskey]

I knew this technique was utilized in the recording of QOTSA’s No One Knows but haven’t been certain as to whether Grohl and Hawkins utilize this method of recording for every studio recording or just the big roomy sounding mixes that have a lot of splash and crash. I’d also like to know if they use scratch tracks from a fully played kit that would have all of the energy and dynamics one would use while playing live with the other musicians and then just replace those with separately recorded shells and and then subsequently recording cymbals, etc. to match the scratch track before ditching it. Some purists might regard some two simultaneous two-handed cymbal hits over a snare or tom pattern as not being exactly kosher, but I think most reasonable people would agree this method of recording could translate to some very powerful drum mixes with great feel and energy. Thanks Doc! Keep ‘em coming!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thank You Dave! Yeah I'm not a purist and most people that think they are really arent. 99 percent of the music we have ever heard has been overdubbed, punched in, edited, parts doubled, comped....Yes even the Beatles and Zepplin etc etc.

[@ErickC]

There's plenty of footage of Taylor tracking drums in "Back and Forth." For what it's worth, they didn't track cymbals separately on Wasting Light, and I don't think they ever did on any of the other albums, either. This technique was really more of a QOTSA thing that they stuck with out of convention when Dave was in the band for a hot second.

[@BobbyHuff]

Excellent comments Dave! Interesting thought on replacing an energized full pass!!!!! Yeah I know the dbl cymbal crash is impossible to play but sometimes crashes in both sides of the stereo field are nice...I’m not a purist except for in certain situations... I look at it like Van Halen only has one guitar player but sometimes there another guitar part under a solo which is also impossible to play. I appreciate ur comments!

[@nickcharles6530]

This channel is awesome! We've gotta spread the word and get you some more subscribers, you're doing God's work, my friend. Thanks so much for the free content, please keep doing what you're doing. (I'm going to try to mention you to Rick Beato)

[@BobbyHuff]

Hahaha thanks Nick. Rick and I are great friends and talk every week but you can still mention me to him!! hahaha. I appreciate your kindness!

[@RjBenjamin353]

Damn the Mutt Lange’s and the Dr. Bobs!! They’re the McDonald’s of sound recording. Everyone recording with them sounds the fucking same.

[@BobbyHuff]

You need a happy meal...I'll buy! hahaha. You are entitled to your opinion Qwert and I respect it.

[@DJRY360]

The cymbals are really phasy listening on a phone speaker.. you can hear it lots in the snare wires without the cymbals... it might be youtube compression. Still great tip! Edit.. at 7:21 it sounds perfect briefly.. then back to phasing.. something is happening. 7:55-8:04 whatever you had there sounded best.. is it just me?

[@deadmaydie]

You could also sample the room mic hits of each drum and trigger it in the mix. I haven't tried it yet, just had the idea.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes I do it all the time if i get a mix where the cymbals are too loud! Good comment

[@bevo65]

8:00 - Who else was waiting for that wingnut to fall off?

[@moonkef]

Strips of gaffer on the cymbals or moon gel and don't hit as hard is also an option. But diggin' this all the same. Also Bell Brass snare that is loud as hell

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes and yes!!!!

[@turdferguson9190]

Pretty sure Grohl learnt this when recording Songs for the Deaf, Homme has used this on most Queens of the Stone Age and Eagles of Death Metal albums.

[@BobbyHuff]

Turd Ferguson!!! Hilarious. Yes ur correct!

[@VinceverevecniV]

First qotsa too ??

[@jimashtube]

Clem Burke of Blondie would go further and do each drum and cymbal separately.

[@BobbyHuff]

LOVE CLEM....GREAT PLAYER...and yes you are correct!!!!

[@alchristensen8121]

I think cymbals are overused.

[@BobbyHuff]

Listen to Peter Gabriel's album Melt...It has no cymbals.

[@alchristensen8121]

@@BobbyHuff - I feel the same about snares. :D

[@BobbyHuff]

@@alchristensen8121 listen to bluegrass!

[@erockscott1184]

In bars yes. But Cymbals are part of all the shades and colors in a recording atmosphere. Recorded music is just that, shades and colors...it has to have every element possible to create a hit record. Recordings are after all...the selling point to any live performance. After that when a band is live...they can do what works live..and that depends on the smarts of the musician. ALEX van Halen really overused cymbals live...but some of us drummers who play multiple instruments and record songs by ourselves completely like myself...understand control and the recording process helps you learn these important things as a well rounded musician.

[@The_Absurdistt]

This technique is drummer experience dependant and can be very impractical, meaning most drummers probably couldn't do this because they learned a song with all elements being played as a whole. As an recording engineer this method is ideal, but is time and money consuming for the band and rare in its successful. execution.

[@BobbyHuff]

Agree... this is why any drummer needs to get their game on and be able to play ANYTHING if they want to work in the studio. If you cant do it someone else will and you'll be forgotten..tough business....get prepared!

[@secondslate7158]

@@BobbyHuff Indeed. But one good trick, if this happens, is generating triggers of the kick, snare and toms and sending them to a drum sampler, recording just the room mics from that virtual instrument, thus getting a room sound featruing just shells.

[@mikal]

Eric Valentine? I certainly hope you're aware of the T-Ride album, the very first thing he ever produced (and was the band's drummer). One of my favorite albums of all time. And one of the most original bands of all time. Nobody before or since has sounded like them. Oh, and, recording cymbals separately? That's what I always did with my band's demos, out of pure necessity. It simply sounded better when we did that.

[@BobbyHuff]

Always sounds better to me too. Im a HUGE ERIC VALENTINE FAN!!! C'mon!!!!

[@mikal]

@@BobbyHuff It's crazy, because most non-musicians don't even know who he is. He should be celebrated on the level of Mutt Lange and company.

[@pstewartdrum]

Saw them play Limelight in NYC in 92. Tora Tora opened.

[@mckevrock]

Eric Valentine admits drummers HATE this technique because they have to play the exact same part twice but on half the kit. I remember watching parts of the "songs for the deaf" behind-the-scenes footage, Dave Grohl's bloodcurdling screams with frustration trying to nail playing half the kit.

[@mikecurtis11]

this was my first thought too, it could be hard to play the separate parts.

[@amberwoodstudio]

Great idea

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Steve!

[@deanrobertnoble138]

Secret is definitely in the crotch mic; it adds balls! Sorry, I’ll get my coat. 😆

[@BobbyHuff]

Hahaha!! Yes Dean!

[@danrebeiz4598]

You had me with “Sorry, I’ll get my coat”. Brilliant

[@BobbyHuff]

@@danrebeiz4598 hahahahaha!!!

[@stonerdrums]

I record this way as well. Except I mic and record the hi hat with the shells.

[@BobbyHuff]

That’s cool man!

[@ALucas73]

You guys are wizards. I would not have the patience to learn all this and then to remember it all.

[@BobbyHuff]

Sure u could Aaron!

[@topa1798]

this is awesome!! couldn't wait to try it !

[@BobbyHuff]

Go for it Topa!!!

[@artofpretention]

This trick explains a lot! Might be an assinine question, but is there a way to recreate this technique when using a drum program? I saw your iPhone trick, would that be the only alternative?

[@gabrielevion7055]

drum sequencing does not have this issue in the first place so it makes no sense to try to recreate it, but heres an idea that i think might answer your question. have a stereo track with just kick snare and toms...on a separate stereo track you can sequence your cymbals so now you have independent control over both elements which is what this video is trying to demonstrate...

[@rocnathan]

Funny, it's a thing I've been doing for many years with virtual drums, but I never thought about doing it with real drums. Very cool.

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Roc!

[@burnradio9681]

What's that cymbal you're riding on? Great video btw :)

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Burn....an 18 inch 70s Zildjian crash!

[@carlsalazar4490]

I’ve never been a fan of cymbals. I find that it seems to effect the sound of the other instruments. I am how ever a fan of high hats. I read that Peter Gabriel told Phil Collins not to play cymbals on his third album. I found that album to be my favorite.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes that’s true. Peter Gabriel did do an album with no cymbals!

[@officialWWM]

That's a beautiful studio. Great video.

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks man! Sound Stage Studio in Nashville. They have 3 killer rooms. I still don’t believe you are the worlds worst musician!!

[@officialWWM]

Bobby Huff you obviously haven't listened to any of my music 😂😂

[@BobbyHuff]

@@officialWWM hahahahaha

[@jessemoneyhun3621]

Weird that people are ragging on you... I knew about this already but this was a great walkthrough. Thanks!

[@BobbyHuff]

Hahaha all good Jesse...love everyone and the worlds a better place right??

[@CraigRMerriman]

All the internet 'experts' are weighing in? 😉

[@wayne1581]

Or use triggers with samples, that gives you the best isolation

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes that works but if you’re in an expensive room it’s nice to take advantage of it.

[@wayne1581]

@@BobbyHuff right, and use the room to make your samples then use triggers

[@erockscott1184]

This is EXACTLY the problem I have in my home (bedroom Ha!) Studio...the drum mix is CRUCIAL to a complete great song recording...without that a song is always junk. I will employ this technique IMMEDIATELY!!

[@BobbyHuff]

Great!

[@the72u7h4]

Slayer did this too, Dave Lombardo had to play all these songs with no cymbals then punch in the cymbals afterwards to control the fucking pssshh pssshhhh psshhhh sound cymbals make. It's a good trick, one that I use myself.

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks for watching!

[@asawiggins]

I heard a story that bears an indirect resemblance to this idea. The Steely Dan guys asked Michael Omartian to play his right and left hand piano parts separately on a record (I think it Aja). The interesting things we do to get tones. I tried to record my right and left hand separately on bass one time... sadly it didn’t work... 🤣

[@BobbyHuff]

Actually Asa...Michael Omartian only has 1 hand.. 🤪

[@asawiggins]

Plot twist!

[@BobbyHuff]

@@asawiggins haha! One of my fav players and all time fav songs. Thanks for the story!

[@bryancolevox]

Absolutely inspired by this video! THIS is the way to record drums without question! Thanks for mending the drum tracking wounds Dr. Bob!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Bryan it really does open up a lot of options when mixing! Try it out!

[@dreib9660]

well , this technique annoys me but I still really like these videos...thanks. New sub comin up!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks for the sub!!!!

[@gimmeshelter72]

I read/saw an interview etc Qotsa was using this way ( out of necessity i read) on their first record, didnt have enough channels. Then they liked it so much continued that way ever since. Grohl i am guessin came to know of it when tracked Songs for the deaf

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes I think that's where Grohl first did it. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@RecordProducerRob]

I noticed it's mixed from the drummer's perspective. I did that for years but about 4 years ago I stopped and have been doing audience perspective ever since, Thoughts on the pros and cons. Maybe a short video of discussion? Would love for you to let us know what Mutt, Max, and Eric Valentine prefer.

[@ASJerrell]

I adopted a panning ethos for the entire mix, see if it resonates with you! It began with this: I’m in the US. We listen to music mainly in headphones, and in the car. The driver sits on the left (close), the right speaker is distant. We also read left to right. So I mix up front and demanding sounds on the left, and put distant things on the right. If something is fading in, I start on the left. If it’s fading out / leaving, it ends on the right. If the high hat is a prevalent part of the song/kit/players style, it’ll go on the left. If it’s just another accent cymbal, it’ll likely end up on the right. All of this not accounting for how it will actually sit somewhere inbetween in the end. Same for toms, they tend to go left to right for me. It’s also just a feel thing. None of this is a hard rule, just a general guide. Especially if other elements of the song are heavy on one side, moving the hat or toms can even it out somewhat. It doesn’t even have to be consistent from song to song, though arguably it “should” be consistent. Just some thoughts! This framework helps me the most when arranging, and mixing for particularly denser tracks. Good luck!

[@BobbyHuff]

FANTASTIC THOUGHTS Andrew!! I love this!

[@RecordProducerRob]

@@ASJerrell I do a similar style with delays heavier on the right. Sometimes I put a dry instrument on the left and pan the reverb/ day only to the right. Can work magic for a dense mix but it can also backfire especially if there are low frequencies in the material being panned.

[@RecordProducerRob]

I did some listening to Mutt's drum mixing approach on High and Dry and Pyromania. He mixes from audience perspective on these. It's especially noticeable on the high and dry material. By the time we get to Pyromania it is still audience perspective but it's now primarily Linn drum samples making up the majority of the drum sounds. Worth noting also is the lack of metal in the drums. HH, ride and cymbals in general are almost extinct. check out Pyromania and try and find any drum metal on rock rock till you drop. It's mixed very very low with snare and kick being 95% of what drums are on the recording. Compare that to this recording from High and Dry. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXmxc6uaabGhetU

[@BobbyHuff]

@@RecordProducerRob excellent comments Root! I love how you are digging for details. Maybe to a fault I rarely pay attention to audience or drummer perspective. Crazy I know as I’m a drummer and a producer and a mixer! Haha. I’m not sure if it was Mutt or Mike Shipley that had the preference. I love Eric Valentines stuff too. Please tell me your thoughts on which perspective you use and why??? Maybe I have a favorite way but just don’t know yet! Ha Also if Phil Collins is drumming would everything flip flop?

[@ChrisMaverick34]

you could just sample your drum kit parts individually and use an mpc to create unlimited drum tracks ✌🏼

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes..... but you may lose the feel of a live drummer..good point though C Baltz!

[@BobbyHuff]

@@AllanJ1981 hmmmm. Respectfully disagree my friend.

[@anemaldemomusic8182]

lol

[@Gravengaard]

You could also get some less annoying cymbals with darker tones. I had to skip the first take you did, when you went into the 3rd bar because of that annoying tone... But, it takes skill and makes mixing easier, I can see that.

[@Fos3tex]

Or mics that aren't so harsh and bright.

[@adammurdock4319]

Almost missed the video! My sub box did not show this. Love that for me. This trick seems like it requires a good drummer. I watched Eric valentines video on mixing taking back Sunday and practice pads were used apparently also. My question are there any tricks to make this easier? Could you use towels or something like that on the actual kit to help the drummer but dampen the kit to oblivion? Also we’re you playing the kick on the cymbal pass? I always called it a crotch mic. Joe didn’t like when I called it that though.

[@BobbyHuff]

Hey Adam. I’ve heard of guys using Roland cymbal pads just to have something for the drummer to hit but they aren’t triggering anything. It helps to have a drummer that can remember what he played on the shell pass or that can write it out to take out all the guess work. I only played cymbals on the cymbals pass... my kick foot was prob just moving by nature but it wasn’t on the pedal. Ha. Thanks for watching. If Joe doesn’t call it crotch mic what does he call it??? Haha

[@BobbyHuff]

Also...no I wouldn’t recommend playing with towels over the shells on the cymbal pass...just one more thing you have to deal with later in the mix. Hire a drummer that can pull this off. It’s not THAT tough...

[@adammurdock4319]

@@BobbyHuff I don’t remember what joe called it. I believe he didn’t want it called that because the prof in the other section really disliked the term. Center mic maybe? I just remember it sounding super cool, while smashed with an 1176 but I couldn’t use it because I was doing a Stevie wonder song.

[@BobbyHuff]

@@adammurdock4319 yeah it doesn’t work for everything but nice to have as an option.

[@TheStarclipse]

Nice explaination!Your voice sounds like Jeff Lynne When He was Younger by the way 😯

[@BobbyHuff]

Haha! Thanks. I should talk with a British accent...I’d fool everyone !!! Some Jeff Lynne stuff coming soon. He’s a personal fav!!

[@skodty]

Cool, but not exactly a "Dave Grohl recording secret", as Dave only recorded that way because that is what Josh Homme wanted. Dave has stated on many occasions his dislike of digital recording and preference for tape. Still, a very cool technique that I plan to use myself. :)

[@BobbyHuff]

Agreed but many don’t know that he did this song in that manner. I’ve heard from one of their producers that he approached some older Foo stuff like this too. Thanks for watching Scott!

[@skodty]

@@BobbyHuff no problem! I didn't know he did some early Foo stuff that way, cool.

[@BobbyHuff]

@@skodty All good man!!

[@TheYeqy]

Could you pull off a similar effect with layering "one shots" from the room mics?

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes but they start to sound "sampl-ish," to me. I have done it many times in a pinch though. Go through and randomly alter the pitch just barely to the room samples about every 2 or 3 measures and it helps the ear to think its a real room and now so consistent like a sample. Thanks Yeqy!

[@TheYeqy]

@@BobbyHuff wow, nice man! Wouldn't have thought about the pitch shift 🤔 Glad I asked you! Now since you mentioned it, could you imagine a pitch shift or a modulation plugin set really slow for something like that on the room sample tracks? I'm lazy, I know! 😁😇😁 Thanks a lot man! 🥁🥁🥁🤟🥁🥁🥁

[@BobbyHuff]

@@TheYeqy of course! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@RjBenjamin353]

The strive for perfection ruins the natural feel and organic sound of music.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes!

[@stillnessinmovement]

agreed. the mind can be satisfied by perfection, but the human heart does not beat in perfect rhythm, to capture the emotion of music you have to catch something else, a deeper pulse.

[@trusstingod]

I recorded an album like this and hated it as a drummer. You play the kit as a single entity. Then I went into studio and he mic'd the drums with 3 mics and signed great. After that I swore that the engineer should be able to record whole kit a once. Not break it up

[@eddiebaez2093]

Big true

[@judoka227]

How is someone gonna sound like 1 drummer hitting 2 crashes AND the snare together?

[@BobbyHuff]

It doesn't necessarily have to sound like a drum performance all the time....whatever makes for the best mix wins. Thanks for watching!

[@BobbyHuff]

@Electric Jesus hahahaha! Good one. Thanks Electric Jesus. Your name is like a Christian Rock Band!! Hahaha

[@MrAndrewpederson]

It seems like so much extra time spent on something that will mostly be compressed out of the final mix and then again at the master. I just place my room mics in different positions depending on how much of a blend (drums\cymbals) I want and play to the room. Time is money and I don't have the overhead to run each song 4 times when I need to get 6-8 tunes turned around in a day. LOL

[@BobbyHuff]

I understand.

[@MrAndrewpederson]

@@BobbyHuff I mean, it's cool though.

[@BobbyHuff]

@@MrAndrewpederson all good Andrew. I just enjoy making videos and interacting. Everyone has their own way and I respect that. I’m just giving out tips that I know work and have learned from the best. I’m also learning other tips from all of you!!

[@ErickC]

I think it would be easier to just hit the shells harder. That's always worked for me. It's a tad disingenuous to call it a Dave Grohl trick when it was used once on an album he played drums on. Nirvana tracked Nevermind and In Utero live with some vocal and guitar overdubs added later, and, to the best of my knowledge, no Foo Fighters track with either Dave or Taylor playing drums was recorded this way. Footage of Taylor tracking drums is consistent with that hypothesis, as are the drum stems that have made it out into the world, which have plenty of cymbal noise in the room mics (and plenty of cymbal bleed in the close mics). Accounts from Barret Jones, Bradley Cook, and Butch Vig also support that hypothesis. There is one Foo Fighters song - My Hero - with a composite drum track that I know of, but it's two whole performances recorded in two separate locations, cymbals and all. As Steve Albini says, to get a good drum sound out of Dave Grohl, you just need to put a microphone somewhere in the room. ANYWAY - this technique definitely has its uses. It could be particularly useful when recording drummers who haven't figured out the concept of balance. From my understanding, this is quite common. Drool out of both sides of the mouth and all that.

[@BobbyHuff]

Hey man thanks for watching and commenting. I have found through the years that hitting the shells harder collapses the sound. It doesn’t seem to matter as much when playing live but in the studio for me it kills the tone. Maybe you have found a way around this. Not sure disingenuous is what I would call this tip as it did come from Dave Grohl and was a technique that he used. Anyway… I appreciate you watching and commenting and sharing your knowledge with all of us.

[@shinomorello]

@@BobbyHuff as far I know, Eric valentine explained in one video that the idea came from Josh Home frontman of Queens Of the Stone Age, was not a Dave idea to record drums this way. I’m pretty new in your channel, congratulations man very good stuff!

[@BobbyHuff]

@@shinomorello Thanks my new friend!!

[@mihneazoican2479]

I’m sure there’s a way to dampen the shells and cymbals enough so the drummer doesn’t have to play selectively that or that. You just record one or the other from a “full” performance

[@BobbyHuff]

What would that be?

[@mihneazoican2479]

Now I feel dumb for commenting lol. I was thinking of maybe blankets or something. Maybe use the parts of a digital kit as dummies. Or yeah, just practice😅

[@BobbyHuff]

@@mihneazoican2479 haha!!! No!! There are no dumb answers!!!! We are all just trying to figure out new and better ways! I appreciate you commenting!!!!

[@robertthompson9161]

Awesome

[@BobbyHuff]

Thank u Robert!

[@ChrisHopkinsBass]

If you’ve got a drummer who can’t not hit the cymbals then you could always use rubber cymbals from an electronic kit as dummies

[@dominik4614]

Sounds like a Single snare

[@jghillstudio1857]

I get it...not a easy pass....great video Bobby!

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Brutha!

[@eranddroory9987]

Great vids man new sub here. But the reverb tail of that room you speak in is not doing the channel much good, you being and audio engineer IMHO..

[@Skoora]

Would you include the hi hat? You didn’t play it (even if just left foot) on the cymbal pass. Sylvia Massey has a fun vid about the dick mic.

[@BobbyHuff]

Yes I would include the hat on the cymbal pass....

[@Oswlek]

Why'd you skip the hi hat the second time around?

[@danieldalton8224]

Rock on Dr Bob

[@BobbyHuff]

Thanks Dan! Hope u and Linda are well.

[@michaelmattson3515]

I like the older albums that had some bleed to the sound. The 20s to the 70s.

[@BobbyHuff]

I hear ya Michael! I do too!

[@popsongtom]

Yes, I agree, “Let It Bleed”... pun intended!

[@david_onbass]

Your video thumbnail is clever, but the secret Dave's keeping in that photo has nothing to do with recording secrets...

[@Mr_Stav]

Therapy? also recorded one of their albums like that...

[@BobbyHuff]

Interesting!!

[@remedydrums2]

I called my health insurance provider and keep getting the following response: Me- I want Dr. Bob as my primary care physician. Insurance Rep - This physician does not have a contract with our insurance network. Furthermore, "Dr. Bob" doesn't appear to have attended an accredited medical school and has no permanent office, only a 82' Eco-line van. Me - Any idea where his office is currently parked?

[@BobbyHuff]

HAHAHAHA!!!! You’re killin me!!!! I do all my surgeries In a van down by the river!!!! Hahaha

[@remedydrums2]

​@@BobbyHuff The one with the Permanent Waves album cover painted on the side, blasting Bytor and the Snowdog? Warm the tongs I am on my way!

[@BobbyHuff]

@@remedydrums2 hahaha!! Warm the Tongs..... very interesting that you just said Permanent Waves....hint hint.

[@remedydrums2]

@@BobbyHuff Hint Hint.. We hacked your Alexa. Lots of questions about homemade lubricants. Makes sense I guess as a physician.

[@BobbyHuff]

@@remedydrums2 Alexa promptly destroyed...

[@My2Drumsticks]

Anyone else catch that he had 5 limbs during the cymbal pass?

[@BobbyHuff]

Hahaha! Correct. Sometimes I like crashes to be in both sides of the stereo field. In making records, for the most part, I’m not a traditionalist that needs it to be a performance that can actually be played. For instance..Van Halen only has 1 guitar player so how can there be a rhythm guitar playing under the solo..see what I’m sayin? Same with drums...if a hi hat is playing through a fill or I have to have 7 limbs to have played that drum part it doesn’t bother me as long as it serves the song and the artist. But...that doesn’t make me right or wrong just my taste. It doesn’t bother be that the hi hat plays through fills on Free Fallin by Tom Petty but if it bothers you I totally understand!

[@mctwishvonnoodles9793]

Genuine question: how would this differ from making a reverb impulse of the same room, and applying it to the shells' close mics?

[@BobbyHuff]

That would totally work but if you have access to a million dollar room with thousands of dollars worth of mics and mix pres you might as well use them.

[@ErikAnders]

Phil Collins

[@jamesmeeker6933]

"Hey, who hired the three-armed drummer?"

[@BobbyHuff]

Hahahaha

[@jamesmeeker6933]

@@BobbyHuff When you doing the Tommy Lee "Girls Girls Girls" pump the shells into a PA while recording trick? :)

[@MacTeee]

Dave obviously has no idea what a hi hat is ;-)