Bobs' 223 Bulk Bullets - Crimp tests

[@buffalosoutdoors]

I love these tests you do. I've learned a lot from watching your channel and it's saved me a lot of time and money. Thanks for what you do.

[@dillrepair]

yeah, came to say this. lately when i'm reloading and thinking of something its usually a combo of a bunch of forum and reloading book reading finished with a "what about johnny?, what does he say". so with great power comes great resonsibility... we're counting on you johnny boy.

[@georgetimm8203]

A person can spend several weeks on the range playing ballistic research scientist. This video confirms similar I have done. Great work.

[@dmo7815]

? Why not load to mag , 2.250 . Length,,, measured my Armulite chamber + .050 jump . 75 gn bullet ,yes ,,sized , trimmed,, annelled , wire brushed the inside neck , tight neck tension all most crushing the shoulder when feeding the bullet then slight crimp with the seater die ( as much as I can before crushing the neck ). Still the bullet moves ! No cantilevers on the bullets.

[@ronpelton2590]

I do a mild crimp on all my 223, after some rounds jammed in my Armalite and it was because the bullet had been pushed back on the feed ramps.

[@richardsveum8452]

Check your feed ramp alignment, My Armalite was Horrible with crushing rounds, at least 1 per magazine after some troubleshooting the feed ramps were slightly mis-aligned.

[@claywynn4507]

Proper cannelure dimensions are required for the 5.56 roll crimp to work effectively. "Ghost Crimp" first offered by Sierra was rejected in favor of the Nosler 77 gr OTM cannelure on the Black Hills Mark 262 Mod 1, until Sierra came around to making a fully developed cannelure. You can see the waffle impression on the soft case mouth from the bullet cannelure on fired federal XM193 military cases. I think the extra grip between bullet and case used by the military was for added insurance against poor neck tension and subsequent loose bullet from jamming the weapon.

[@PlugNuster]

I really expected to see more deviation from NO crimp to the extreme X-Heavy crimp. Even the pressures didn't pick up as much as I thought they would have. Excellent video buddy.

[@chriskristopherson7739]

Just started reloading and your videos are the best I could find!! You don't talk too fast and you dont talk to slow. Your precise and concise. Keep making them

[@lincolnparker5802]

He’s videos are really helpful to me. Haven’t seen many do so much,or so many with my rifle rounds.

[@wrxs1781]

Well done Johnny, here is my two cents worth. For years I crimped my 223Rem/.556 ammo with a medium to heavy crimp for the simple reason of bullet push back, in competition causing jams. In the last few years mostly bench shooting on my part and never crimp, and no issues so far.My only comment with the bullet you are using why OAL 2.215", my preference for that bullet OAL 2.247".

[@darthdively]

I've been reloading for some time. Yet, im new to auto rifle. This was great information. Thanks for taking the time to do this and sharing with us. Good job!

[@misterx8592]

6 years old video but still relevant!

[@Puggernaught24]

Literally love nerding out on these vids, good job

[@mattpatton8887]

I have found that crimping tends to elongate the bullet by .001 to .002" so that may explain the extra thou in your measurements.

[@OzarkSpirit]

I was taught to always crimp compressed loads and anything that will be stored for any length of time. I.e hunting loads. Other than that, it's shooters choice. What do the manuals say?

[@robkilcollins310]

What a cool test! Putting theory to paper to quell the masses!! DAMN I love this channel!

[@jasonposten9481]

Where do you reload at? Shed, garage or inside the house? I don't have a shed or garage. Just curious on your opinion.

[@MrKredinger]

Great test and content. Very helpful to someone getting into reloading. Thanks for doing this channel.

[@ccwynn6657]

Glad you went back to LC brass. They take pains to assure a soft annealed shoulder and neck. This serves to make sure the neck seals to the chamber during firing. The downside is that if you get too heavy on the roll crimp on your press, the shoulder will flare where it attaches to the shank of the case. It can be subtle and go undetected under visual inspection. It can even sneak through the Wilson Pattern Gage Test. When setting up for a roll crimp into the cannelure keep an eye on possible shoulder flare. By the way the MilSpec for M193 is 35 lbs neck retention. The Military does not insist on crimp but LC throws it in to assure there are no disassembling or bullets pushed back down in the case during the autoload forces and the 35 lb. minimum milspec requirement is maintained.

[@pablopenasco4254]

Lol. That is my favorite website for supporting all my favorite content creators!

[@brentmack51]

Glad you did this. I had an old timer tell me he never crimps 223. He shoots competition. Hence I dont crimp

[@ibthumper2]

No crimp pimp. LOL I just wanted to thank you for your hard work and sharing with us brain stems out here.

[@shuumai]

haha

[@neilharris4462]

Thank you, for confirming why i don't crimp for 223. No real accuracy gain as well as velocity jump. I use a .002" neck tension and it seems to work well.

[@paulatudor691]

How do they hold up over time with moisture in the air? Just curious about the powder might get damp over the several years. I have black powder and it don’t take moisture well.

[@neilharris4462]

@@paulatudor691 I can't speak for black powder cartridges, but moisture is not an issue with modern cartridges. Neck tension seems to be pretty air tight. Crimping with black powder may be more important for assisting in pressure curves as well. Good luck.

[@Dustysa4]

Many moons ago I performed a variation of the test you did here. I used cases sorted by stamp, 55 gr hornady FMJ bullets, and two different ball powders (H335 & TAC). I tested medium crimp vs no crimp at various charges weights. I had similar results. Sometimes the crimp yielded better consistency, and sometimes not. Data was so inconclusive that I also determined crimp doesn't make much difference with plinking ammo in an AR platform rifle. However, for my target rifle I'll often achieve a spread under 15fps. I never crimp these rounds.

[@jeffmerz3595]

Military doesn't even crimp ammo issued to sniper teams if that tells you anything

[@denverwynn4]

No disrespect, I’m relatively new to the sport. But why is the suppressor/barrel strapped down? Should barrel harmonics not play a relatively large factor? I can tell by your methodology that you are quite scientific and I really enjoyed that aspect. I just don’t know what the point of the way you locked it down was? Thanks in advance.

[@kilokiloj]

I love science and I love testing that makes sense. 50 shots isn't enough to "prove" any theory but the way you conducted it proves to me that crimp just doesn't matter for 223 or 5.56 range shooting. All reloaders are crazy but we really appreciate a good video like this one.

[@WolfzVideo]

I've been reloading for over 30 years and never bothered crimping. I was just gonna start playing with crimps and found your video. I prob won't now. Great seeing this... I would think just to put a little more tension on the bullet.

[@oldmanpatriot1490]

Wondering about the Chronograph you are using. Do you notice any trouble sighting in your rifle with it being on the barrel? The slightest deviation on my barrel and shot placement is all over the place.

[@belt1974123]

My thoughts exactly. This has to be messing with the barrel harmonics.

[@rykelee]

Whether you apply a crimp or not, I have found uniformity in neck tension is the criteria that's important.

[@keithreutter4253]

The best way to describe crimp is to hold bullets in place in auto firing guns. And some powders do better when bullets are crimped to 🔥 all the powder up. The old wise tail says if you can't push the bullet in with pressing it against something your fine and just lightly crimp them to iron out the lip of case.

[@davecarberry8212]

Thank you for this video! You answered that question I always had in the back of my mind in regards to crimping. I will continue with a light crimp on my 223 reloads without any more doubt about going heavier!!

[@calangel]

The heavier the crimp, the higher the POI shift is what your test seems to show. I have a hornet, and I was instructed to always put a light to medium-light crimp as they have low neck tension. Thanks for the test, bro!

[@inglwud5625]

I would try them without the can on the end- it with the sensor on the end may be affecting the barrel flexing.

[@myronmaghirang2654]

Sir, the group with no crimps...did you just used the Lee's bullet seating die? If so, it cycled all the way through ,you took the last round out correct?

[@homiegali]

I've crimped mine with a light crimp because it came with my kit. Interesting results.

[@scottarthurjr.1818]

CRIMP: Just enough to get it done.

[@Angl0sax0nknight]

I agree I’ve noticed that it depends more on the brass then anything. But on 5.56 I was always using used brass. Had a few times where the neck was just too loose and the bullet wouldn’t hold. But on my 308 or my 6.8spc the brass is always tight so crimping is not necessary and could cause over pressuring.

[@jungleno.]

I’ve never used the factory crimp die on 556. Just a normal crimp on the lee seating die. And like you said just enough to get it done. It takes about five whacks with a kinetic bullet puller to knock a bullet loose. That’s plenty tight.

[@alext8828]

What was the purpose of measuring the last of each group w/ the calipers??? Was it expected to change length in the clip?

[@woe2thet1m1d6]

Very nice video and good info. I've loaded about 4k rounds for my three gas guns and never used a crimp as I have had zero function issues. Accuracy with H335 w/HDY 55gr about 1.5 MOA and Win748 w/HDY 75gr BTHP 0.8 MOA with an 18" BA 223 Wylde barrel.

[@MrTgrasshopper]

Interesting. Did you mesure neck tention? The no crimp, did they had all the same neck tension?

[@edboy916]

Great job man! So the question is: to crimp or not to crimp. I personally don’t crimp my bullets, even if I do “fire-fire” with my AR15, or bench rest with my 308 Remington 700. The reason is that I prefer to not stress overall the neck of my cartdriges, since I reload them. This is my opinion. Anyway, thanks for making this video, and sorry for my english. Greetings from an italian guy :)

[@mbizzle1801]

Best link at the end of a video yet, well played

[@jamessolomonii7516]

In my opinion crimping for rifles is more based on how you are going to use the gun. If its a self-defense or gun fighting battle rifle setup, you want to crimp. The rifle is going to be dropped banged around on things, etc and you don't want the bullets shifting. If all you are doing is bench shooting, then who cares.

[@rfgon3727]

Thanks for the video, tell me one thing, currently what do you use? No, light, medium or heavy? It was weighed not to use, that in the caliber 38 special, what do you recommend

[@tomharrell1954]

Your video is excellent! The test hypothesis is excellent! You are testing more than just the crimp! Please excuse my next question. I do not intend on being rude. I am simply looking for extreme accuracy. The shooter is part of it. Have you ever entered any competition shooting? Have you ever taken shooting lessons? Also How was the wind that day? Thanks for what you do great job!!!!!!! Ok here are some thoughts. Effects on SD can be broken down into groups. Horizontal deviation and vertical deviation Horizontal deviation caused by things that move the bullet left or right. *Trigger pull, *wind, *rifle hold, *rifle riding the rests, rifle bedding, bullet and case concentricity, *fouling, *temperature change, barrel mfr Vertical deviation- caused by things that move the bullet up or down. *Load variations, CRIMP! , *heat, *temperature change, bedding, rifle riding rests, fouling, Bullet and case concentricity. Rain, barrel mfr * = major contributor JUST FOR AMUSEMENT IF WE SAID THE HORIZONTAL DEVIATION OR THE HORIZONTAL SPREAD WAS DUE TO THE SHOOTER AND WE CHOSE TO LOOK AT ONLY THE VERTICAL DEVIATION OR THE VERTICAL SPREAD As the vertical spread is where we would expect to see the change in group spread caused by crimp. WHAT Do THE GROUPS TELL US THEN??? NO CRIMP. You first group the control group was 1.29 in vertical spread. LIGHT CRIMP 1.49 - 1.29 = 0.20 increase vertical spread MEDIUM CRIMP 2.10 - 1.29 = 0,79 increase vertical spread HEAVY CRIMP 1.50 -1.29 = 0.31 increase in vertical spread X-HEAVY CRIMP 1.30 - 1.20 =. 0.01 Increase in verticals spread THEREFORE THE STATISTICAL DATA TELLS US ALL FORMS OF CRIMP INCREASED VERTICAL DEVIATION IS THE STATISTICAL DATA COMPARABLE TO WHAT YOU SEE IN THE REAL WORLD? Yes (maybe). I have never seen any benchrest competition shooters CRIMP their cases. It is said that crimping cases decreases accuracy a small amount. (BENCHREST SHOOTERS ARE SUPREMELY CONCERNED WITH THE SMALL AMOUNT OF ACCURACY). THE DIFFERENCE IN COHESIVE FORCES IN THE BRASS METAL CAUSE VARIATIONS IN THE RELEASE OF THE BULLET CAUSING MINOR CHANGES IN VELOCITY RESULTING IN MINOR CHANGES POI. . CRIMPING THE BULLET IN THE CASE IS USED IN THE MILITARY TO PREVENT CATASTROPHIC FAILURE. TO PREVENT MOISTURE INTRUSION INTO THE POWDER AND PROBLEMS CAUSED BY THE BULLET MOVING IN THE MAGAZINE DURING AUTO FIRE WHICH CAUSES FAILURE TO FEED JAMS. THE MILITARY IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE MINUSCULE ACCURACY LOSS FOR GREATER RELIABILITY. To some degree your test bears out what one would expect to see. OR I.Am nutz

[@patriotarmament7407]

Just a thought; maybe crimping isn’t about accuracy but pressure and FPS.

[@8literbeater]

Which contributes to accuracy.

[@jasonweishaupt1828]

I crimp just enough to prevent bullet movement under recoil and cycling.

[@roadsideprophet2012]

I know I am about a year late for my comment but I only found your channel in the last week. So u can probably expect a few late comments on other videos as well as I watch them. :-) great content! loving the channel and experiments

[@gwidwock]

I have read in multiple forums about reloading .223 and a lot of reloaders do not crimp. Good video, Thanks!

[@johnblythe8229]

Love the “I can feel it all the way down to my plums”🤠

[@michaellacy8510]

This video is very well done! Not overly talky. Great target and shooting visuals. Thanks!

[@jakebirkmaier5703]

I think the changes in group sizes are due to the barrel heating as the first through third grow progressively bigger until you take a break then the same thing happens again

[@RimfireAddicted70]

Great video! These videos are very detailed and well thought out. Tons of serious information to be gleaned here. Keep up the awesome work!

[@TimKollat]

you should test your OAL after you chamber a round, then pull it out and check its OAL as this is when you would get bullet set back when the bolt slams the round into chamber. I crimp everything, even for my bolt rifles. After trying to mimic some factory loads Ive noticed that some of the most accurate factory loads Ive fired were with rounds that were heavily crimped to where you couldnt pull the bullet out without some considerable force in a bullet puller die. I just seem to get better accuracy and consistency when crimping. Ive come to the conclusion that crimping creates more consistent pressure. Thats what I think so thats what Im sticking with. Even if the bullet doesn't have a cannelure I still crimp with the Lee Crimp

[@tomharrell1954]

mojo jojo interesting hypothesis. Sorry but I don’t agree. Can you support your idea with any thoughts? Read my thoughts up at the top and put what you think! Thanks

[@keithreinert5835]

If you watch he did that exactly. It chambered he ejected it and measured it.

[@jungleno.]

Your reasoning does not make sense. When the round is chambered, the kinetic energy of the cartridge getting slammed into the chamber would throw the bullet forward, not backward.

[@WestDesertShooter]

The video clips thrown in make me laugh every time. The 8541 tactical made me laugh out loud at work when I shouldn't have been watching videos. I've never crimped, haven't had a reason to, and I get good results without it. So it saves me another step I guess

[@dannyo3317]

I have never crimped either and do not know anyone that does.

[@89tonstar]

From what I understand, crimping bullets came about after most of the worlds armies learned that soldiers during battle can be very hard on their ammunition. Using bullet tips as tools, running through red hot machine guns, slamming home bolts, double feeds, etc. Crimping also came about due to war time production as neck tension could sometimes vary quiet substantially. Crimping was just another step to decrease the likelyhood of a misfire damaging the weapon. Today, the quality of modern brass is just out the freakin roof, even with cheap brass. Crimping can help, but is not needed. I think all of us, early on in our shooting career, "heard about that one shooter" who had a round pushed into the case and blew his face off. So we intuitively added crimp, JUST IN CASE. lol

[@pareloader5989]

Hello. I have a question that I am hoping you may be able to help me with. I have been reloading 38 special for some time and have always used bullets with a cantullure and I would crimp my case mouth into the cantullure. I recently purchased some berrys bullets without cantullure, will i still be able to crimp the case mouth or not because there is no cantullure. Please help. Chris

[@jungleno.]

Yes. You can Chris. Don’t crimp too tightly though because you may cut right through the plating the Berry’s bullets.

[@pareloader5989]

@@jungleno. thank you!

[@choogiesoutdooradventures.1948]

What about crimping non cannelure bullets? Can they even be crimped? Or should be? I bought some 60 grain non cannelure I was gonna shoot out of an AR. I didn’t look at the box, I wanted the cannelure ones. Maybe a light crimp?

[@raymondwalker5032]

The most important take is that there was no noticeable difference in the bullet moving from no crimp.

[@adamthatguy454]

I've been loading 300 HAM'R (basically 223 brass cut and necked up to 308) and had to crimp (mid to light) to keep the bullet from pulling out of the case when chambered. The inertia from the 125 gr. bullet made it push out into the lands. If I pulled the bolt back to make sure the round loaded from the mag it would pull the bullet the rest of the way out; turned into a powdery mess.

[@blackhawk7r221]

Much more important is to get the thickness of the neck brass even around the circumference. There will always be thicker and thinner spots. This means that your bullet is not in proper alignment with the barrel bore. Only turn it to take off the high spots, so you’ll typically only get cut marks 3/4ths of the way around. And as always, neck tension should be .002” less than actual bullet diameter compensating for neck brass thickness. No separate crimp required. Now this is for your match ammo that you baby, not the stuff for blasting with the fellas.

[@sd3gunner]

have you ever found a good ES and SD using 55gr bullets like Hornady BTSP with H335? Im having the same problem it appears you had here.

[@jungleno.]

I’ve never used my factory crimp die on 556. Just a normal neck tension on the lee seating die. It takes about five whacks with a kinetic bullet puller to knock a bullet loose. That’s plenty tight. As an aside, 25.5g H335 is above the new max but below the old max and gives great groups (Hornady 55g fmjbt, CCI 400 primer, 2.215 COL).

[@ccwynn6657]

The cannelure on those bullets is what we call a pseudo-cannelure, invented by Sierra when Mil asked for a real cannelure on the Mk262 Mod 1. According to Dr. Corbin, a real cannelure will establish a line terminus of the cannelure indent if it is to be functional as intended.

[@jamesbent2584]

I have been loading for bolt action for a while never needing to crimp butjust started loading .223 for a semi auto and have been looking for info on crimping. Ive read that its a safety thing for bullet pushback but then i hear no dont worry and i dont need it. I am loading hornady 75 gr bthp with no cannelure as well as 55 gr fmj sbt with cannelure going to be using lee factory crimp die for both as it will taper crimp bullets without a cannelure am i just wasting time and money?

[@ditchdigger93]

I always thought it would make more difference than you got there. But then you rarely ever see factory loads in any caliber that isn't crimped, some of it crimped pretty hard. I really would have bet it raised bullet pull a lot having to break the crimp back out before the bullet could move. Guess not.

[@rimrock53]

I quit crimping 30 years ago but I don’t reload for tube feed or magnum calibers. Why do you think you need to crimp something like .223?

[@tythagoras5787]

Yeah, I did my own testing a few decades back. I came to the same conclusion. Crimping rifle ammo is for people who aren't me. My Lee factory crimp die still gets some use when a friend comes over to reload, he crimps everything. I try to talk him out of it, but if the military crimps everything, so will he.

[@blackhawk7r221]

Recoil causes the bullets in the mag to shift back into the case.

[@rimrock53]

@@blackhawk7r221I haven’t observed any OAL changes with my AR and don’t believe that .223 has enough recoil to cause any. I believe crimping is more important if you are shooting magnum calibers or tube feed magazines…. Even my .308 loads are stable. If I have to pull a bullet, I have to beat repeatedly with a kinetic puller to get the bullet to move at all. The only bullets I buy with a cannelure anymore are .308 Barnes TTSX and they are not available without it.

[@blackhawk7r221]

@@rimrock53 I gave you the standard army answer for boneheads being rough with ammo. I personally apply a light crimp to .223’s because I have had an uncrimped bullet push back and blow up my bolt because the bullet couldn’t make the straight jump to the rifling. I do not crimp rifle ammo for my bolt actions. I use neck collet dies to get that magical .002” of tension.

[@drkaymotorsports]

Crimp isn't about keeping the bullet in the same place on a standard feed, or really for accuracy, or for SD/speed. If you size you case properly the standard neck tension will hold the bullet, even one without a cannulure, in standard feed semiauto. What a crimp is for is a safety factor when you have a jam. A proper crimp gives you confidence to ensure the round is still shootable when you have a jam. I could have told you the results of this test before you did it... it would change nothing you were measuring.

[@rapidrrobert4333]

Single feed from a shooting bench? none. In the field hunting? Enough to prevent bullet movement while in the magazine.

[@JJN1973]

Very interesting and well done. I crimp the .243 rem I own, It is a Tikka T3 varmit. I find crimping improves the rifle's performance, I use it mainly for pest control on Fox, Kangaroo, and Fallow Deer (NSW, Australia). I would say I use a heavy crimp, but I think I will go back and look over it again as you have now got me thinking, I could improve.

[@normanmcneal3605]

Is them boat tail? Other than creating a round crimp groove, fcd does not distort any bullet. Lee said so and I have seen it’s true. If you can feel the edge of the case with a drag finger test, it’s not crimped. Send it back to Lee with a case and they will make it right

[@bretthl1]

Crimp or neck tension? I think Lee calls it neck tension die. What really annoys me is the ring that the Lee neck tension die imparts on the neck of the case. If your case is SAAMI maximum length then top of the collet should align with the top of the case. The collet on these dies close when the shoulder impinges on the base of the collet. Why can't they get this problem fixed?

[@johnnymccann5607]

I'm a advanced reloader of over 43 years , advanced ultra reduced center ammunition. all my semi auto ammunition I prove each round with no exceptions. I cross both thumbs around prime end, bullet nose betweeny fingers and push hard against a board on a table, reloading bench,door frame of reloading room. having my micre meter set to check for bullet back up .I don't buy much factory ammunition but I'm shocked at how easy to back in case some brands are also extremely dangerous ammunition.lets face facts most shooters get out shoot she spray and pray method and because you just can't see while rapid firing bullets backing up in cases then blowing up. I'm 99 percent convinced most semi auto firearm failures are due to faulty ammunition.its a experience I won't never forget. papa.

[@bubba6945]

I load those bullets with AR COMP with lc brass with 25.7grains and use winchester small piatol primers And get very very small groups at 100 yards COAL is 2.245 No crimp in a 1 in 9 twist 16 inch barrel Works great in my friends ars as well No small rifle orimers so we made do with the small pistol primers Whats your thoughts about this load

[@KiLLaDaTa]

crimped my first time today... a bit nervous. .. my case lengths weren't consistent and I screwed the die in further so it would hit the brass most are right on the edge of the neck a couple are .02 lower should that be okay?

[@KiLLaDaTa]

they show fine. sd in the 20's

[@1976kingdom]

I would like to see this with Vihta Vouri powder. That powder has given you the most consistent low SD #'s.

[@user60521123]

Thank you! Very informative and well done video. I’m just starting rifle reloading. If the bullet has a cannelure, is the crimp is still optional?

[@pault2148]

I just crimp enough to rid my reloads of the slight case mouth flare, that I use during reloading. To smooth feeding. Light to extra light crimp.

[@curtisfarmer8321]

I started crimping .223 because the crimp came with set! But something strange happened when I was trying to develop a new load. When I test chambered a round, the bullet got jammed WAY down into the case. Scary! In your opinion, could crimping prevent that from happening?

[@craiganderson3170]

You certainly go after the questions I have.

[@yolo-qr2fq]

Have you had the crimp die deform a shoulder/roll it a little? Have a RCBS crimp/seating die and that's what it's been doing. Put a factory round in the shell holder lift the ram all the way up and then screw the die in so I have seating depth and crimp. After this a put a round in to seat and crimp and comes out with a rolled shoulder.

[@johnholmes4960]

Lots of data for sure. Sir, .....what is the distance of your bullet jump? The distance from the bullet ogive to the rifling lands? I want to do some reloading. My Remington 700 .223 loves the Winchester 45 grain hp. It is so accurate it is boring to shoot. I want to replicate that round. So, I bought some other brands of the same round, and what I found is the ogive dimension is all over the map. I have not physically loaded a thing, yet. For right now, it’s all about creating a process that works for my gun. What I think, feel or like does not matter. What my gun likes what I did does matter. The other thing I notice is the overall length of a given cartridge deviates....maybe not in yours, but in some off the shelf brands. I am still compiling my data, and moving each issue around to find what’s most important first, or last. By and large in precision manufacturing it is well known once you change one thing, everything changes. So, during the process it is best to make very small incremental chances, once thing at a time, and document, document, document everything. It is part of the process. One last thing, in order to make ammo affordable for the average recreational shooter, the big ammo manufacturers have spent years developing that one round. The machinery costs millions of dollars to make and keep running accurately and consistently. Their tolerances are regulated. When the weight says 45 grain or one gallon, then that is what it has to be. The tolerances are extremely high. It’s like going to the bank to make change for a $100.00 bill. She gives you back $95.00. You complain...then she says well, sir, that’s well within the banks tolerances. Is that still ok with you? OR, you go get gas. The pump says you got ten gallons of gas, but in reality you got nine and a half gallons. That is well within the stations tolerances. Now, is THAT ok with you? 🤠 see what I mean? Everything made has a tolerance to some degree. Some higher than others. When working in the range of tenths of a grain with very volatile gun powder, a little is a lot. So for my process, I need accuracy safely. In conclusion I want to add that reloading is for entertainment that I DID IT! Forget the time it takes and the money we spend, just have some fun and do your best safely. That will be my process. Thanks....🤠

[@MWR-lg9qp]

I struggle with crimp/no crimp. I can and do calibrate my die exactly how you did it, so I know how but my results are all over the place just like yours.

[@ironmonkey1512]

I don't want to wear out my brass I just go light

[@rapidrrobert4333]

I shoot a Howa .22-250. My favorite load is 52gr. Hornady match, CCI BR2, Hornady brass, no crimp OAL 2.370" case trimmed to 1.905. I finally got a 5 shot group under a dime at 100 yards. (Forget about the other 300 groups under a blanket).

[@markcarlton1182]

My view is that I use a light crimp when the bullets have a cannelure. On longer bullets(55gr Nosler BT) with no cannelure, the bullet is seated deep in the case and does not need a crimp. I just don't think the crimp adds anything. YMMV

[@davidunderwood3605]

Crimps are military standard. As with cci # 41 primers. I use a lee factory crimp die on all simiauto reloads. Very lite to lite. Military uses a heavy crimp standard do to the handeling of munitions and to insure proper feeding in combat as well as training. With combat they are looking at combat accuracy not bench rest. To test standards you must measure crimps on factory loadings with digital just as you would for proper pistol munitions. If your banging out more than ten in the mag such as the 30 round standards everybody uses today, I use ten, then you could see a little backwards movement by the time you reach the last few. How fast you jackhammer them out can also have affect. Clean barrel with a snake between strings to set a standard. That's my way when looking for accuracy load. But every body has there own way. Just like opinions and But holes everybody has one.lol. fun fun fun.

[@donabele1243]

+David Underwood: The primary reason that military ammo is crimped is to ensure no bullet movement during full-auto firing (the same primary reason why the primers are crimped). Be well, Don

[@BR-pj8ii]

If I do not crimp, I find that the bullets (inside Magazine) will shift in or out due to the recoil and can very easily cause a major malfunction.

[@vernonmarlow679]

Would you get better consistency by resting the front rail on the sled instead of the end of the barrel? Barrel pressure can make a huge consistency difference in some tests I've seen.

[@MYates307RC]

He did… That’s a strap hanging under the chrono.

[@pcbulletempire9872]

The only time I cramp my bullets when I use my Lee cast 55 grain bullet other than that I don't cramp any jacketed bullets I tried to get them up close to the rifling as I can

[@rapidrrobert4333]

I go .015" from rifling. no crimp trimmed case, and consistent OAL.

[@marcrobert2603]

People who reload for others and not crimp? Has any person allready shot one with the bullet fallen into the case while loading the rifle?So when you make one for brother,papa or friend,better crimp to avoid accidents

[@neilharris4462]

marc robert as a general rule you should not shoot others reloads, or give others your reloads.

[@marcrobert2603]

I know,you know,now everybody knows,i agree.100procent

[@jonjames4281]

I believe crimp matters more with heavier/longer bullets. really noticed this with the 300blk subs bullets moving forward when cambering.(dies maybe?) Never had any issues with 5.56/223 bullets i've loaded, but I crimp them anyway cause of bullets getting shoved in cases in ammo I didn't load. The SMK 69gr are the heaviest i've loaded.

[@edwardmauch2918]

What about crimp in heavy revolvers and what about bullet set back while on a two way range?

[@redrzr56]

Well Done Sir! A real life, this is what I did and here are the results test. Thank You!

[@JohnSmith-kg5dv]

Have you noticed the wild change of bullet lengths in these Bullets? Mine have been all over the place and it doesn’t seem to matter on bullet weight. I have always got better groups with no crimp, 223, 243, 2506.

[@huntfishcreatehenrich4602]

When I first bought my AR, I was given a large batch of .223 that were loaded in the 1970's/ 1980's. On a few of these rounds, when you simply picked them up, the bullet would fall back into the case. I'm not sure whether they were crimped or not but those few didn't even have much neck tension. I suspect that the brass became brittle over the years and the tension on the bullet changed. Anyhow, that's my case for crimping.

[@jason127x99]

Huntfishcreate Henrich I had some old Russia milsurplus ammo made in the 50s that were doing that. 7.63x54r to be exact. Took it back.. This stuff was brass cased.

[@herrkulor3771]

Nice fotos. Really obvious how the bullets form a waist with crimping and thereby loose contact surface with the barrel.

[@codysp]

I never use a cannelure as a reference for bullet seating. That's not what they're for. It's merely a mechanical bond of the jacket to the core. All my 55gr fmjbt is seated at 2.250 oal which is nowhere near the cannelure.

[@glenschwarzer6282]

Your video's are the best, in my opinion I've learned so much and have watched for hours thank you 🤠

[@jamesvatter5729]

Good stuff. I did a similar .223 test a few years ago. Unfortunately, it was before I had access to a chronograph. My groups looked like yours. Not a lot of deviation. I expected variations. It surprises me to see no bullet creep or major change in velocities. I wonder what this test would look like with a heavier caliber?

[@8literbeater]

So in an earlier video you showed how much the bullets pull forward without a crimp, and we could see the affect on accuracy. Now you're saying you're not sure if there's a good reason to crimp, after we saw that they don't move at all when crimped. I'm just trying to keep up here.

[@reelamor9950]

This puts another wrinkle in my noodle. I started reloading 30-06 and 460 S&W mag, guess crimp has been engrained in me. Only load I really don't crimp is 300BO , since I just am removing the bell. Going to try no crimp on my 5.56 now.

[@southern_merican]

I tested different crimps to see if it dented the bullet once i pulled it from the case.(and heavy crimps do damage the side) And set My crimp As tight as I could without denting the bullet.

[@edp1189]

I like my RCBS taper crimp used lightly, I bet ya got one of them???

[@jacksonthompson7099]

I think all dies except Lee dies have a built in Roll crimp.

[@kennethstahl678]

I think 10 shot groups is little extreme. 5 should be enough. Maybe a little slower shooting to insure deviation is not shooter induced. Crimp or no crimp? That question has been going on forever in the rifle cartridge reloading world. Myself I check neck tension after seating. Measure, push test, measure! Also like you did a measure check of rounds from the magazine after weapon operations. No variation or issues based on that lot of brass I do not crimp! Crimping effects pressure through variations in neck tension! Common sense. In rifle it is rare that I crimp. When I was benchrest comp shooting and did inside neck turning there may have been times I used a very light taper crimp. Even that was seldom! I like your testing process and you explanation on what your doing and looking for is very good.

[@THutch556]

Me personally If the bullet has a cannelure it gets a medium/light crimp, no cannelure on the bullet no crimp. Even a fairly light crimp on a bullet like a SMK without a cannelure will deform it. I have done tests by crimping non cannelure SMK to different levels and then Pulling the bullets and it didn't take much to deform them. So no crimping for me on match non cannelure bullets. Any chance on testing Bobs' bullets with Vihtavuori powders? Should tighten up the groups big time and cut SD way down.

[@stevenwagle1101]

Maybe lose the can and/or the chrono? See if the groups don't improve?