Boeing 787 Operators With Engines From Both Rolls-Royce & General Electric

[@LongHaulbySimpleFlying]

CORRECTION: Ethiopian Airlines also operates a 787 fleet where some jets are powered by RR Trent 1000s and others by GE GEnx engines.

[@John-nc4bl]

The GEnx engine is superior to the Rolls Royce engine because it has better reliability and also it consumes less fuel.

[@AdditionalAccountRequirement]

You know it’s bad when even BA announced that for their latest 787 order they are going for GE

[@davidmejia2699]

That's the first thing that came to my mind when I saw that.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

True & I`d be interested in the reason for it whether it`s reliability issues still or they`ve done a deal with GE at their huge facility in Cardiff for maintenance? I`ve not heard of the reason for it as BA are keeping quiet!

[@John-nc4bl]

@@edwardwilcox6606 BA may eventually ending up being a GE powered airline.

[@AdditionalAccountRequirement]

@@John-nc4bl Hard to say. They usually where there’s choice go for RR for national pride purposes. They were though strangely the launch customer for the initial GE90 (all new compared to the other 2 choices that were just modifications of what was used on the A330) version on the 777-200 before quickly switching back to RR

[@christopherlaut8460]

If I remember corectly Lufthansa also has both. But thats because it took over same delivery slots fron a diverent airline.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

Lufty ordered RR but also in the interim took some `ntu`s` with GEnx which are being transfered to group member Austrian.

[@TysonIke]

Lufthansa also has the 747-8i too

[@AdditionalAccountRequirement]

@@TysonIke They were the launch customer for it. They are the only airline to have more 747’s than A380’s

[@bomber996]

One interesting exception is Lufthansa and their 787s. The first 5, originally destined for another carrier, were delivered with GE engines. The remaining 27 orders will be with RR engines.

[@TheShowblox]

The 787 will always be my favorite Boeing. It’s so elegant and my flight on one was super smooth!

[@FanRailer]

Sounds like RR is going down the same path Boeing took. Not a good prognosis if that’s the case.

[@v1spotter]

Very informative video - did not know this many airlines operated 787 with both engine variants

[@edwardwilcox6606]

RR`s T-1000 was the first engine on B787 & subsequent models of that aircraft. It started out very well & in fact it was the GEnx when that entered service a little later that had the problems not T-1000. JAL had icing problems straight away which caused them headaches as well as some other operators but to GE`s credit these were sorted quickly & the engine turned into a pretty reliable unit. Sadly over time T-1000 started to have issues with turbine blade coating & this took sometime to overcome damaging RR`s reputation. By 2020 it was sorted & many airline have ordered T-1000 since, but it has to be said GEnx seems to have the edge in reliability. RR are spending large sums in improvements to their whole range of turbines & T-1000 is about to get upgrades done to T-7000 very soon which should help future sales. It should also be said GE was always going to be the most popular engine on B787 because of the fact the huge US airlines would only purchase the GE US made units & quite rightly so. No engine is immune to problems & both have shutdowns periodically but overall both these units have been pretty decent considering they are stretched to the limit in both power & economy. It`s also great that the airlines have a choice in engine & service agreements on the Dreamliner.

[@John-nc4bl]

The GEnx engine is superior to the Rolls Royce engine because it has better reliability and also it consumes less fuel. The GEnx is outselling the RR engine by a margine of almost three to one.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

@@John-nc4bl These two engine are very close on fuel. GEnx is slightly better at cruise & the T-1000 is better at lower altitudes particularly at take-off. But you know that already because I`ve mentioned it to you before, but never mind carry on peddling your nonsense if it makes you better. You are correct with reliability as GE has had less problems but they still have engine shutdowns which obviously you wouldn`t want to hear about only RR issues for you eh?!

[@AdditionalAccountRequirement]

@@edwardwilcox6606 RR reputation though is too ruined on the 787 engine market and TAP Air Portugal is not happy with the Trent 7000 on their A330neo’s because performance is not meeting what was promised when the aircraft was ordered given its the exclusive engine

[@edwardwilcox6606]

@@AdditionalAccountRequirement Your term `ruined` isn`t correct, `damaged` would be a better descripter & in fact since the blade-coating has been addressed ( by 2020 ) there have been many airlines that have purchased T-1000 instead of the GEnx alternative. On the topic of TAP they were the launch airline for A330Neo & while they complained about efficiency they are the only airline to do so. T-7000 has had some major upgrades in the interim & it`s proving to be a very worthwhile improvement so much so that they will be applied to T-1000 very soon. A350Neo has taken-off in sales recently & not just by small airlines on a budget but some major players in the business namely Cathay with a positive order of 30 aircraft. There is rumour of China placing a very large order too on the back of some excellent upgrades not just to the engines but to weight-saving components all over including interiors all contributing to making this aircraft very competative in efficiency to the B787. There will be many more to come to be sure. RR cannot make enough T-XWB`s ( for the A350`s ) they have opened a 2nd production line at their plant in Germany because the order book is huge & as a bonus their stock price has risen considerably.

[@okay_then3337]

What I don’t get is how the Trent 1000 has been so unrealible but the Trent XWB have been largely trouble free. Other than Bleed Air, those engines are very similar but only one of the is constantly having issues. 🤔

[@edwardwilcox6606]

Although both 3-spool engines T-XWB is a later designed engine which is also larger & quite a bit heavier with much higher thrust capabilies. your `constantly having issues` is a little unfair. The main problem on T-1000 was the blade coating issue which was addressed by 2020 & there have been many airlines that have chosen RR since that time. There are some niggles remaining but these will be taken care of soon when improvements made to T-7000 filter to the T-1000.

[@sho1715]

Because Airbus employed RR to kill 787 😂

[@sho1715]

@@edwardwilcox6606but 787 RR holders were much more severely impacted.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

@@sho1715 Absolutely & I`m not making excuses, their customers were badly inconvenienced & of course Boeing at the same time but they did a great job in remedying the situation quickly considering engines has to be taken apart. The cost of this fiasco was huge & it`s taken time to recover, but it will take time for T-1000 to claw back extra share on the Dreamliner.

[@John-nc4bl]

@@edwardwilcox6606 The GEnx engine is superior to the Rolls Royce engine because it has better reliability and also it consumes less fuel.

[@michaelosgood9876]

Air NZ in 2019 when ordering 787 10s stated the move to GE was to get slightly more range out of its -10s as the GEnx was around 2% more fuel efficient than the Trent offering, as opposed to the 'Trent issues' being the reason.

[@TimTVOfficial]

I like the noise the RR T1000 makes, that buzz-saw sound, and that whine; it's therapeutic, but I'm sure people also like the quiet GEnx engines. I can't pick a winner since they're both great.

[@EpicThe112]

If you want one from LAX with RPLL MNL as final destination use NRT/HND as the transit point you get this result NH105/NH5 to NH869/819 Trent 1000 Genx version is JL61 to JL745. This one is a combination Trent XWB and Trent 1000 SQ21 to SQ918/213 or SQ915 to SQ34 this is SFO/EWR-SIN-PER/MNL. For the top examples MNL bound passengers just avoid the NH Trent 1000 and JL Genx B787 via NRT/HND routing by going PR GE90-115B or Trent XWBs. Even though it results in a service downgrade from top 10 to bottom 10 in Skytrax 2024 top 100 ranking

[@kuckoo9036]

Speaks volumes when even BA drops Rolls for GE. They're usually hard-core Rolls loyalists.

[@AdditionalAccountRequirement]

Exactly. BA was though strangely the launch customer of the GE90 powered very early 777’s before quickly returning back except for the 777-300ER which is GE exclusive

[@edwardwilcox6606]

We don`t know the reason for this last batch of aircraft being fitted with GEnx`s, `Speaks volumes` is pure speculation until it`s known for sure.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

@@AdditionalAccountRequirement No not `Exactly` for the reasons you mention. BA did order GE90`s for their B777`s instead of T-800 so it proves they`ll choose as they see fit. Sadly for them the new GE90`s had some teething problems so their next batch were T800`s, this engine becoming the most popular choice for the B777-200.

[@cabottaxi]

That Air New Zealand colour scheme on the 787 is fantastic. Best out there .

[@dominickkrahnstoever7362]

I love it too! Most airlines are like “let’s make the fuselage mostly white so it doesn’t heat up too much in the sun” and Air New Zealand is like “F-it go All Blacks! *insert haka scream*”

[@at0mcollision]

Air NZ’s 787s are also very comfortable and the standard of service is excellent, which is a relief given New Zealand’s geographical isolation!

[@TomGD]

There is another 787 operator that did made the final switch to GE engines. Africa's Air Tanzania had issues with one of the 787-8 that was grounded for so long that it's harder for the airline to get it maintained in Malaysia. So the last 787-8 5H-TCR is delivered to the airline with GEnx-1B engines. I guess that's one way to switch.

[@John-bi1lv]

No one really cares about that. Leased aircraft anyway.

[@ImtiazRiadi]

Didn't Ethiopian airlines did the same thing? Their early 788 and 789s are Trent 1000s?

[@LongHaulbySimpleFlying]

Thanks for highlighting this! Yes, we missed this airline and will pin a correction comment. Ethiopian's 787-8s are some of the 'terrible teen' 787s that Boeing had trouble selling. It also has some Trent 1000-powered 787-9s. For more information on the early-build, 'terrible teens' 787s, you can check out our other Long Haul video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5C9dqJ3ma-dotE

[@edwardwilcox6606]

I think Ethiopian were the first to have a mixed engine fleet on B787.

[@Blank00]

Ethiopian switch engines twice. Initially, they took delivery of GE 787-8s. Then they switch to RR 787-8s, then they took delivery of RR -9s. Then they switched back to GE -9s. Once they started taking the RR -9s, they had no -8s on order at that point.

[@rafaelwilks]

You know the Trent 1000 is cooked when BA orders the GEnx 😎

[@stradivarioushardhiantz5179]

GEnx-1 vs Trent-1000 Leap-1A vs PW1000G

[@cellpat7392]

A few of the later UA 78X have RR engines. Apparently they had made a commitment to engine the A350s they were supposed to get with these.

[@LongHaulbySimpleFlying]

Wow! Interesting! Thanks for this information. We can see that airfleets.net marks these RR-powered 787-10s. But the databases that we usually check for this type of info, planespotters.net and ch-aviation.com show those same airframes with GEnx engines. They are usually reliable sources but I guess they missed these few jets and, like us, assumed the entire United 787 fleet was GEnx!

[@cellpat7392]

@@LongHaulbySimpleFlying I work around these at my local airport and I also found out by chance. I read in another aviation website what someone had said about the commitment made by UA to RR and that they might use the engines on later 78X orders instead. Strange.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

I don`t think this is correct, UA wouldn`t want a mix of engines on their B787`s. They still have to decide on their A350 choice, should be interesting if they do indeed go for it. I think A350-1000 would be terrific for them.

[@nickolliver3021]

@@cellpat7392 Hey I might have a frame that has the RR T1000s I use Boeing Aviation flights website which lists MSN 1208 having RR engines!

[@cellpat7392]

@@edwardwilcox6606 well, they do have RR powered 78X. check in the UA official fleet page. What I was told and read is what I wrote, and It is not the official word from UA.

[@markiangooley]

Recent RR engines are usually named after rivers. There are some weirdly-named rivers in Britain… I look forward to the Ouse series of turbofans.

[@zlm001]

Thanks.

[@dedsert9653]

I think letting this area of the business fall a bit shows they aren't entirely reliant on it. thai seeks discounts, RR refuses because they don't need to give discounts. that's a mutually agreed separation.

[@MartinBluston-o4z]

I do not think RR are too bothered about competing for 787 orders now. They are busy supplying engines for the A350, for which they are sole supplier.

[@marcusdymler8386]

I don't know why your clip continues to show Korean AIr aircrafts. Korean AIr 787 only has GENX engines on all their orders of current and future 787s. If you are referring to recent lease of 4 787s with Trent engines, they are going to be Subleased to AIr Premia in 2025.

[@learjet55c]

Lufthansa switched from GE to RR :)

[@edwardwilcox6606]

No, they ordered RR but took on some `ntu`s` with GEnx that have gone to Austrian.

[@VLC-Construction]

It's just Rolls Royce bashing from the team, isn't it... Poorly researched, as it seems like they only used the one site (Being GE Aerospace) when finding these announcements.

[@John-bi1lv]

@@VLC-Construction No it's not. It is TRUE that GE ended up with the majority of the market at now over 2/3s and RR really did have HUGE issues with the Trent that further favored GE. The numbers speak for themselves.

[@AdditionalAccountRequirement]

@@John-bi1lvThey must be biased to RR

[@John-bi1lv]

@@AdditionalAccountRequirement They are indeed very because of a huge contract with LH tech. "Specialist for Rolls-Royce TrentAircraft Engines N3 Engine Overhaul Services (N3) is the European competence center for the maintenance and repair of Rolls-Royce Trent engines and their components. The company also has one of the world's largest and most powerful engine test stations. The name of the joint venture with Rolls-Royce plc, "N3", is derived from the three waves that Rolls-Royce turbofan engines have, and at the same time it represents the company's product profile: the repair and overhaul of these engines. The current portfolio encompasses Trent 500, 700, 900 and XWB engines, used to power the Airbus A330, A340, A350 and A380 - currently the world's largest passenger aircraft. N3 is integrated in the global Rolls-Royce network, consisting of operative sites in Hong Kong, Singapore and the United Kingdom. Within this network and, indeed, throughout the aviation industry, N3 quickly established itself and earned a strong reputation. Dependable delivery, excellent quality and oustandingly well-trained personnel have enabled N3 to prevail in the competitive international market, so that the company can now claim more than 40 international airlines from all over the world as established long-term customers."

[@seagullsbtn]

Rolls Royce has a good following but seemingly a more troubled in service history than GE.

[@RacingDriver17]

1:28 GEnX engine 2:28 GEnX engine(2) 2:43 GEnX engine(3) 3:13 🤑🤑🤑 3:28 i lost my count

[@stephengnb]

What airlines use a different engine on each wing? 😉 GE on the right, RR on the left?

[@creativemindplay]

😂

[@manitw.4998]

This would be interesting but insanely expensive.

[@shahriar4526]

bruh

[@John-bi1lv]

Don't be stupid.

[@ballsinsurance]

​@@John-bi1lv don't be so serious

[@TheShowblox]

I will admit, despite knowing a ton about the aircraft themselves, I know like NOTHING about engine makers

[@parrotbrand2782]

Rolls Royce's name is synonymous with luxury and high quality. Airlines want to have engines with that name but unfortunately it is less reliable.

[@brentboswell1294]

Wasn't the 787 supposed to be easy to switch engine suppliers on? As I recall, Boeing designed the plane to be easy to switch from one vendor to another, by changing the pylons...

[@edwardwilcox6606]

Doing a swap after building would be hugely expensive & certainly not worthwhile. I believe it was done once by Boeing changing from GE to RR but I can`t remember why but I think it was for their own testing.

[@brentboswell1294]

@@edwardwilcox6606 if I had to guess, if it's as easy as Boeing was touting, it was done at the behest of leasing companies. I would imagine that the lawyers get involved when an airline tries to switch engine vendors 😅. Gotta protect that market share!

[@Raze2090]

​@@brentboswell1294And of course, engines are stupidly expensive. You'd have to reprogram a lot of systems too to swap another engine. Just not economically feasible at the moment.

[@phillm156]

Would it be feasible for a 787neo with GE9X engines to improve fuel burn?

[@MrSchwabentier]

The GE9X burns more fuel than the current 787 engines. So that would be stupid

[@YukariAkiyama]

No reason to. GE9X is way too big, requiring a resign of the wings and pylon, and the GEnx-Trent 1000’s make plenty enough power

[@phillm156]

@@MrSchwabentier It only burns more fuel because the 777 is a much bigger, heavier plane. Cruise at 50% thrust in the 787.

[@phillm156]

@@YukariAkiyama just mount the engines forward & higher than the current pylon…..add MCAS to offset the nose up angle caused by the engines….make it really responsive at 200 knots too….

[@YukariAkiyama]

@@phillm156 thats a whole lot of work and maybe a few billions just to put bigger engines on a plane that already does extremely well on its current engines

[@ZainabHali-b6z]

❤❤❤❤❤ tank

[@stevenholt1867]

also TUI

[@Titot182]

I'm guessing Thai didn't take the bribe from the boys in Derby then? Here's a thing, how about diversifying and eliminate common cause failure by using RR on the port side and GENx on the starboard side. Fun and games with the thrust/weight imbalance, fuel systems and control and insturmentation, but go on, one of these operators would have been tempted to do the bodge!

[@anggergalih3414]

?

[@Titot182]

@@anggergalih3414 Rolls Royce percuma dulu - nyogok Thai.

[@John-bi1lv]

More likely RR didn't offer the bribe.

[@EpicThe112]

2:25 NH B787 operations is this Genx donestic but Trent 1000 domestic and International. I wonder why NH couldn't get Genx B787 to do RJAA/RJTT🇯🇵-RPLL🇵🇭/KLAX/KSFO/KSEA/PHNL🇺🇲.

[@elijahcollins9400]

Because all those (newly built) 787s they received after the switch have domestic configs (JA935A, JA936A, JA937A, JA981A, JA982A, JA983A, and JA984A). It's simply because they haven't been receiving international configuration 787s after the switch.

[@elijahcollins9400]

The Japanese domestic configuration 787s are much more crowded compared to international configs. Really feels like being in a slave ship I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to ride on them for trans Pacific flights.

[@EpicThe112]

@elijahcollins9400 thank you for telling me about this by the way JA934A it's configured as an international plane parents flew on it LAX-NRT April 29th 2024.

[@elijahcollins9400]

Also, they can't fly these routes even if the passengers are happy. All ANA's GE powered 787s have reduced thrusts (64klbf per engine for 787-9s compared to the normal 74/75klbf, and 67klbf per engine for 787-10s compared to the normal 76klbf). The thrust is reduced to extend the maintenance interval (in cycles) for those engines since these domestic config jets typically acquire cycles much quicker than their international colleagues. This means that with a full load they can barely take any fuel with them, or they won't even have enough thrust to get airborne. Their range with a full load couldn't even match some narrowbody aircrafts, and is certainly not enough for most international flights.

[@elijahcollins9400]

@@EpicThe112 yes, JA934A is the last RR engined 787 built for ANA (although not the last to be received, ANA received JA926A and JA927A after JA934A).

[@Charles-b2t]

Was hoping for more t100 orders . Looks like Emirates signed for GE engines for their dreamliners...ouch..

[@filledwithvariousknowledge2747]

I think part of why EK did that was because their 777’s + 777X are GE exclusive + the important reliability factor given the 787 is the last all new widebody program with 2 engine choices and RR has had major reputation damage for fan blades cracking which is part of why Norwegian Long Haul failed was they chose RR

[@Nino-v7u]

Sorry, but I prefer Airbus with the RR Trent 1000's or newer. I am tired of American monopolies. (Boeing has many bad issues that Airbus does not).

[@doncalypso]

No Pratt & Whitney engines for the 787? 🤔🤔🤔

[@ysfsim]

PW never made a bid to do so

[@filledwithvariousknowledge2747]

@@ysfsimThey are out the widebody market now for good as Boeing is sticking with GE and Airbus RR for widebodies although some customers are getting angry at RR which might give P&W a chance back in for Airbus widebodies

[@wardogies]

Lot should next too switch from RR to GE

[@FirstLast_Nba]

England's business model for the last 50 years in a nutshell is: Short term profit over long term stability loyalty and growth.

[@htschmerdtz4465]

Sounds like Rolls is trading on their name, at the expense of their reputation; if you charge more for problematic engines than your competitor(s), your market will go bye bye.

[@filledwithvariousknowledge2747]

Their almost down to 30% of the 787 engine market, worse than Boeing’s overall market share against Airbus (sub market share by category within the orders backlog is different with Boeing leading in widebodies and until recently a complete monopoly for freighters but still leading by a large margin)

[@eamonahern7495]

It's like as if Rolls Royce is the Boeing of engine manufacturers

[@Ashwin-c9y]

rolls royce Trent 1000 engines

[@BOWUNCE6126]

but why did these airlines chose the trent1000 in the first place

[@wrichikbiswas]

I'd assume political factors may be in play for certain carriers. BA and RR are both UK companies

[@nathanbedford1485]

Because rolls royce engines are usually very good. They can't see into the future

[@John-bi1lv]

Because at the time the two engines were extremely close in efficiency, so it came down to the deals offered by both. The problems with the RR option had not yet emerged.

[@okay_then3337]

Also the Trent was available first so maybe airlines strapped for time chose that option.

[@John-bi1lv]

@@okay_then3337 Didn't prove much of factor. With the delays of the 787 and RR they were pretty equally available. Other than ANA, there were more GE customers of the early deliveries.

[@sho1715]

My hypothesis is Airbus employed RR to kill 787 🤔

[@nidmotaviation]

Wished malaysia airlines got their 777-200ERs with the GE90 not the rolls royce trent 875.

[@davidstarkey288]

ge sounds like a more reliable engine

[@John-nc4bl]

The GEnx engine is more reliable then the RR , burns less fuel, it is less expensive to maintain and also overhaul.