The Last Of Us Episode 9 BLIND Reaction & Review! (HBO)

The Last Of Us Episode 9 BLIND Reaction & Review! (HBO)
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00:00 Intro
1:13 Reaction
35:48 Discussion/Review
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[@BOLDcast]

What an incredible season of TV! Was way better than I ever expected, and it completely blew us away! Don't forget to leave your comments and questions for us here for a chance to be featured in our season review! (we do a podcast going through all of our thoughts for the whole season whenever we get to the end of a show)

[@JohnnyZ716]

How do you research anything when you've never had an immune person to research from? So researching for 20 years doesn't fly with me. They have no idea that if they took tissue from an immune person and did whatever with it, then gave it to someone, that it wouldn't work. Or bone marrow, blood transfusion etc. Sorry but you don't risk the life of the only immune person on earth and just the first thing you do with them is brain surgery that's gonna kill them. Brain surgery should be the last resort.

[@SugerFreeJazz]

The giraffe is 100% real. And they did feed it. They had to film it on a green screen so it does standout from it's environment a bit, thats likely why so many think it's fake.

[@Boyefran]

This is true. They built a stage connecting to the Giraffe sanctuary at the Calgary Zoo. They really went all out to be as faithful as possible and spared no expense to film this season.

[@2ntwins]

A doctor reacted to this and his response was accurate to the way most doctors would respond. "We don't fucking sacrifice people. I don't care how many lives that vaccine would save" The other part is that, does it matter if we agree or not? It's the decision joel would make. As craig said, "it was the easiest decision of joel's life." What makes a good story is characters makign the decisions they would make, not our decisions.

[@math9172]

Your entire second paragraph is one of the biggest reason why TLOU Part 2 is excellent and makes sense, but also why so many braindead people hated it. I mean TLOU 2 is basically "everything goes wrong : The game", but it's still excellent storytelling. It's not because we don't like the way things went that it's bad, on the contrary it's *supposed* to make us feel bad and empty to truely make us FEEL how pointless hate and vengeance are.

[@gieron666]

Let that doctor live for 20 years in postapocalypse world and lose most of his friends and family. Let that doctor be a part of a rebel organization whose only goal is to "save the world" Then deliver him the only person who's immune. I wana hear him say then that he doesn't care.

[@markmywords3817]

Ofc our preferences don't matter to Joel's decision, but it's still a useful intellectual exercise to think about. It's like the trolley problem, except its more complicated. To be fair, Marlene didn't give Joel and Ellie much options. The ending may have turned out differently had Marlene given them enough time to think about it. Ellie most certainly would've consented into doing the operation. And Joel could've made a proper closure/send off to Ellie. He would've ultimately respected her decision the way a good father respects his child. But ofc, that kind of ending doesn't make for a good story.

[@SugerFreeJazz]

Dr. "We don't sacrifice people.... other then that one time in tuskegee... oh and there was those human radiation trials..... we do a lot of stuff without telling people we are.

[@OdeOneEleven]

​@@math9172 Exactly. Thank God someone else gets it.

[@nate0765]

I like how this episode ties into Bill's note in episode 3. "Because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did, I saved him. And I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here, We have a job to do. And God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way."

[@MadSkillz76]

And there are people who say episode 3 had no impact to the story lol.

[@ahmaranwar1488]

remember when kathleen said to henry "children die all the time, is sam worth everything?" yeah each episode had clear purpose towards the finale even the part where henry killed himself right after killing sam. All is connected

[@carlosriveraauthor]

Watches the giraffe: "It's not quite there, but it looks really cool." The 100% real giraffe: 💔😢

[@TukaihaHithlec]

Love when people think they can recognize CGI then call real things fake lol

[@jubilantsleep]

19:38 Wow…Joel basically told Ellie that she’s his reason for living! That’s heavy! The look on her face right after is adorable. She doesn’t know what to say or do it touches her so deeply.

[@Berg126]

Something I think makes this ending even more interesting then in the game is Ellie telling Joel, everything I have been through and done, we have to follow this through to the end, "but after this, I will follow you anywhere you want" that clearly tells! Ellie doesn't think the possibility she will die herself in the attempt to save the world, because she knows it's only an attempt, because she earlier asked Joel at the bonfire if he thinks it will work, because her blood didn't help Sam

[@dizzisliving2355]

You saying Ashley Jenkins killed me. Ashley Johnson haha. Also the giraffe was real. I thought it was CG too

[@Vin_Venture896]

Well fwiw Ashley Johnson named herself ‘AshleytheJenkins’ on twitch because Ashley Johnson was already taken lmao so close enough 😂

[@DB-ed1nw]

It looks like CG

[@CBZero]

😆

[@watsonsd1]

I thought Joel's talking with Ellie about Sarah was guilt-talking, a preemptive effort to prevent her from asking more about the Fireflies and what happened. He knew it was coming.

[@birdobert]

Ellie was purposefully never given the choice in the first place. She was put under not being told she was going to die, or asked if she would make that sacrifice for a cure. Even if I agree Ellie probably would have said yes, the point is she was not given the option. And what, if Ellie said no, would Ellie and the Fireflies really have let her just walk out the door rather than harvest her brain against her will? No, hence why they didn’t even give her the option in the first place

[@jubilantsleep]

The cello broke my heart even more during the Joel Rampage scene 😢. You could just feel the music expressing the emotion that Joel no longer could.

[@CooLDevi]

I find it very funny that my reaction to the giraffe was also: "that's really good CG" and then find out that the giraffe was indeed real!

[@tellanpairama9245]

Everyone forgets Ellie never gave her consent everyone still assumes she would have, Joel's made the decision she never was aware of for her and his backstory clearly makes sense why

[@Dark__Thoughts]

Ellie birthing Ellie is just beautiful. That scene got me pretty good, knowing and loving both games and Ellie as a character, with all she went through. And no, that's a real giraffe. His name is Nabo and he lives in Calgary. I think the suicide attempt is a nice addition. But I am a little sad that they removed the photo of Sarah. In the game Ellie snatched that at the dam, after Tommy failed to give it to Joel, and gave it to him before they reached the hospital. It's kind of relevant for a scene later in the sequel, similar to the removed Arcade scene from the Left Behind DLC. I think the rifle he uses at first is a Mini-14. It's a short variant of the M14, or rather a development that came out of the M14.

[@aPhatPhoenix]

I can see why some people say Joel is in the wrong but I only fault him for lying to Ellie afterwards. Marleen and the doctor are mostly in fault due to the fact that they were going to go through with the procedure before informing and asking Ellie first and also before letting Ellie and Joel have goodbyes with each other. Imagine being woken up from being knocked out and first thing you are told (by people you barely trust) is the little girl you bonded with while traveling across the country for months is getting prepped for surgery that will kill her and we aren’t going to let you even go see and talk to her first. Like if they would’ve been patient and waited and let Ellie and Joel talk and then find out Ellie wants to do it and then Joel turns around and does that then I’d be like yeah he is being selfish now and that’s wrong. But Joel wasn’t going to give up another “daughter” just for some chance that isn’t even 100% sure that any good will come of it. I only fault him for lying to Ellie and not being transparent afterwards. She would understand with time that he had to do what he did since they were gonna deny any final moments he had with her.

[@eloise2319]

That's Nabo the giraffe! Great actor!

[@means_well]

15:45 once giraffes are older than 3 they don't really have any natural predators until old age. They kick too hard and are too hard to take down for predators. There are easier meals out there

[@darrylhughes7797]

Someone suggested that Ellie got her immunity not because her mom got bit (because it was too fast for the blood to travel from her leg to her uterus) but from her mom using the same knife to cut the cord that she'd just used to kill the infested. Interesting thought...

[@marlonm.255]

Another fun fact: Cordyceps grow everywhere BUT the brain 😊

[@VtuberFan404]

The Giraffes were real, not CGI. Great reaction loved watching.

[@BOLDcast]

It’s hard to tell in 720p 💀

[@VtuberFan404]

@@BOLDcast lol understandable

[@Jimmie_Rudolfsson]

​@@BOLDcastWhy do you only watch in 720? :o

[@means_well]

I'll admit, the CGI *around* the giraffe doesn't do it any favors. But it totally makes sense that it's cheaper to just use a real giraffe instead of a CGI one.

[@jubilantsleep]

@@Jimmie_Rudolfsson Truuu the CGI around the giraffe threw me off at first too

[@PrimeBox]

The giraffe is real. The behind the scene photos are pretty fun since the who set is green screen, however the actors and giraffe were still actually there at the same time.

[@alexanderloeb]

Curious - what was the most emotional moment for both of you this season? Is there a kind of moment, character interaction, concept that tends to get ya in the feels?

[@jubilantsleep]

10:33 the clearing of the throat here was adorable lol 😅

[@Jon66B]

Real giraffe. They spent weeks teaching it to take food from strangers, the background is CG. So, yes, Bella really fed the giraffe.

[@oultimometroid2764]

only now i noticed that the main line of part 2 is exactly the same line as the end of part 1.....

[@math9172]

From what I've read the giraffe isn't even CG ! The background is CG, but not the animal.

[@BOLDcast]

That makes sense Something about the shots looked off, but it’s also hard to tell when you can only watch in 720p on browsers But that’s awesome they got real giraffes

[@yohanespaskal9352]

​@@BOLDcast illegal streaming website? Lol

[@BOLDcast]

Lmao no. The official website that we pay almost $30 a month for only does 720

[@yohanespaskal9352]

@@BOLDcast that's sad, illegal streaming website got 1080 720 and 360 option.

[@frankthatank4900]

I really hope yall play these games on stream theres even a coop multiplayer which i played around 50 hrs in the first game lol loved yalls reaction to this season finale nd looking forward to the discussion.

[@vintagecottonon]

I think u guys were the only reactors i saw that noticed laura bailey in the operating room! Such a clever little easter egg. Also, interesting parrallel: ellie is sorta like harry potter in a away - raised like a pig for slaughter to die when the time was right 💀 Lastly i love how they sneaked music from the second game into this episode - it worked so amazingly and actually triggered tears from myself 👏 *edit one last thing: the voice actor for the doctor in the game, is the same voice actor as Mr Jefferson from Life is Strange 😄

[@antp6150]

I think in regards to whose side you are on i think some of it does fall on if you are a parent or not, was interesting listening to the podcast Neil druckmann revealed they got feedback on Joel's decision playtesting the first game and people without children it was 50/50, for or against Joels decision, for people with Children, it was 100% that sided with Joels decision. I also think the way the fireflies handled it didn't help. If Marlene was so sure Ellie would say yes why didn't she explain it to Ellie and let her make the decision the excuse of 'didnt want to cause pain' doesn't fly with me. If she was so confident in ellies consent What she should have done was explain it to Ellie, with Joel there - and let ellie say yes to joel then maybe, maybe he could have taken it. Marlene and the firelies were doing that surgery regardless of anyones opinion - does that make them good guys? Question that i have for you both that i have seen that is somewhat critcal of the show is the amount of infected - obviously they toned it down from the game as that CGI bill would be astronmical and that much combat would be boring to watch but did they go to far in scaling back the infected in the show in your opinion? I'm on the fence, i think they aren't normalised being on screen much so are scarier when they are. But after Kansas we saw one infected in the finale? Great videos and reactions, your discussions are great to listen to.

[@SohiHien]

there was also the infected in episode 7

[@kevinscottbailey8335]

I'm not convinced Ellie would have wanted to die. Maybe she would've, but there's no way the Fireflies knew that BECAUSE THEY DIDN"T FUCKING ASK HER! They intentionally took away Ellie's agency in the situation because Marlene knew they were killing her either way. Joel did what had to be done. You don't sacrifice ANYONE (more or less a LITERAL child) on the off chance you MIGHT be able to make a cure.

[@thomodachi]

All of those fireflies didn't have to die if they just waited for Joel to gain consciousness and then all sit down with Ellie to discuss the whole matter and let her decide. The whole plot didn't make any sense to me. They waited for months for this moment and they couldn't wait like a few hours to discuss this?

[@siegbruh2266]

This might not be a big talking point, but for your podcast, I'm curious how did Carson feel about Bill and Frank's story in the show. Specifically the fact, that we didn't get much interaction between Bill and Joel, and no interaction between Bill and Ellie which I really loved in the game, but wasn't possible in the show because of the direction they took with it. I absolutely love what they did in episode 3, but I'll forever miss all these back-and-forths between Bill and Ellie. Anyways, thank you for this great reaction series and let's hope that season 2 comes rather sooner than later. Cheers!

[@StinkFingerr]

It was done better in the Game. Not as Sappy though.

[@DaStar280]

I hope they make some serious changes in season 2 or it's gonna be terrible :/

[@hernangodoyyanez8785]

For me the world matters as long as I live in it, sacrificing your life is meaningless and anyone who asks you to do that is really cruel and cold.

[@Triggernpf]

Nice slick look Carson. I like the hairstyle.

[@abeautifullie7579]

Part 2 stream when ? 😬 great discussion as always

[@tpaxatb]

I’m sorry but the misspeaking of Ashley Johnson’s name I kept hearing “Ashleeeeeeeeeeey Jeeeeeenkins” in meme voice 😂

[@BOLDcast]

It’s not misspeaking! Lmao Her friends on critical role call her the nick name Ashley Jenkins, it’s a common meme But yeah that’s a classic lol

[@BernicePanders]

15:00 - They were on a lifter bucket thing like electricians use for power lines, 100% REAL 🦒 on a blue screen!!

[@Vextipher]

"He killed them all" He actually left 3 Nurses(?) alive.

[@marcs1951]

That shootout music reminded me of game of thrones ice King. Episode

[@tellanpairama9245]

All the bad calls were made before the Joel Wick scene, 1 big one was there 1st plan, sacrifice Ellie, why did that have to be the very 1st step, no tests nothing

[@simpgod2170]

41:26, guy almost looks like a completely different person sliding his hair back like that

[@user-uy9tw2zb6g]

14:50 In the news today they said - this is a real giraffe.

[@melissapennington4679]

One of the best, longest, most powerful sustained notes of all time - check out Carrie Underwood and Vince Gill’s “How Great Thou Art.” It’s mind blowing!

[@MrPicklerwoof]

Marlene and the other Firefly leadership couldn't see how murdering a child without giving her a choice was utterly inhumane and the worst possible first step in trying to find a cure (if it was ever even possible). Utterly deluded. Joel's choice to save her wasn't really a choice - he was always going to do that under those circumstances. Joel lying is obviously an issue, but we all have our weaknesses, it's why we are human. And Joel's biggest fear is losing another daughter, his weakness is he cares too much and it clouded his thinking in terms of keeping Ellie shielded from the truth. But to be honest, that is nothing compared to Marlene's crime of attempting to murder Ellie, making the decision to sacrifice her. If there is a villain here, I know exactly who it is...

[@gby139]

Joel lying is FAR from being the only issue, stop lying to yourself, what he did was horrible and way more serious than what Marlene did. This doesn't change the fact that most of people, me included, would have done the same thing. But you just can't try to justify or deny how horrible it is. It is the most selfish choice to make, more than to not let Ellie choose (and he didn't let her choose either).

[@MrPicklerwoof]

@@gby139 I'm not 'lying to myself' thank you very much. His daughter was about to be murdered and his actions to save her from that fate were therefore justified. What we define as 'horrible' in a world like this is just semantics. It's not about how many people die, it's about the justification and reasoning behind it.

[@superronjon]

@@MrPicklerwoof He did it against her will though. She wouldn't have wanted him to do it. She would have wanted the surgery to take place. Obviously they didn't ask her and that is wrong of them, but Joel did no better by also taking away her choice by killing all of them and lying to her about it, because he knows she would have wanted to go through with it if she had been given the choice. In the garage Marlene gave him a second chance, a chance for them to actually talk to her about what she wanted. She wasn't going to kill him, and told him "What would she have wanted? It's not too late, even after what you've done" and he denied that chance to actually get Ellie's side, because he doesn't want her to, because he knows what she'd choose.

[@MrPicklerwoof]

@@superronjon He didn't know any of that for sure though. Which is the whole point; it would need to come out of Ellie's mouth, on her terms. In the garage Joel knew what Marlene & the Fireflies represented; an organisation willing to murder a child without giving them a choice. Any fanciful ideas about them 'saving humanity' went out the window from that point onwards I think. Leaving Marlene alive would make little sense.

[@superronjon]

@@MrPicklerwoof He did know that for sure. That's why he has to lie to her, because she would want to go back and do it if he didn't. If Marlene truly was the big evil villain that wants the cure at any human cost she would have killed Joel in the hospital before he could do anything about it, or she would have killed him in the garage without trying to convince him to do the right thing on his own. He had the opportunity to hear it from Ellie's mouth, but he took that away from her, because he knows what she'd do. He couldn't give her the choice, because he did it for himself. If he went along with Marlene's second chance they could have had a real discussion about what Ellie wants and how the cure would work, but he isn't interested in that. He can't lose her, no matter the cost. That is why he did what he did, because he can't do anything else, even if it's the wrong thing to do.

[@laketosky-aerialimagery80]

They were there with the Giraffe

[@gregwillett2710]

22:44 - I was waiting to see how long she was going to wait before having to pause and say something lol like 10 Seconds it took haha Same here girl. I was SO MAD at this part too

[@chalando6124]

tbh, I'm 99.99% sure this show will win multiple emmys, and I mean many many. Almost 169% sure that Bella Ramsey will slay with Emmy's. Hope my guy Pedro gets something. Surely Bill & Frank ep will get some juice. What a great season. I also played the game, loved the little add ins they did. Like the finale with Joel talking about his suicide attempt with Ellie. Fantastic. =)

[@batrinine6591]

Great video ❤ I can't wait for you guys to play the game , I don't care even if you already know the story 😊

[@klm7272]

One thing that I would have preferred is that Ellie drowns before reaching the fireflies, not because it's a crazy scene in the game but because Ellie did mention in episode 2 that she can't swim and that never came up again so drowning her here would have been a good callback.

[@StinkFingerr]

Let's not forget that at the start the expert in the Television program stated that it was impossible to make a vaccine or cure.

[@birdobert]

Did people get hurt? Was Ellie's way of confirming if Joel killed people, when Joel said Yes, you could tell Ellie made her decision there to accept what Joel did, that's why she says Okay at the end

[@SohiHien]

she didn't accept what he did, she just chose to believe the lie right now. The alternative is too much to handle right now. She knows he is lying just not what exactly of what he tells her is a lie.

[@iaani_]

It's been a while since a show has been stuck in my head like this after it finished (for now). It means it's something special, but fuck I hate this feeling.

[@jamesquinn8558]

I think the premise is flawed. Get samples of the chemical that marks her as infected and break out the chemistry set and duplicate it. The brain surgery as the absolute first attempt is excessive and dangerous as she’s the only one immune. Killing her first attempt is kinda insane.

[@MrPicklerwoof]

It was always a huge flaw in TLOU1. It's basically just a narrative MacGuffin to serve a story beat. It makes zero sense no matter what angle you look at it from. TLOU1's still a great story though as long as you don't analyse it too carefully.

[@ImaginarySkittles]

why do you think every brand is a sponsorship lol. that's not how it works XD

[@TheDoctorIWho]

The Giraffe was real. The rest is blue screen in this scene

[@dbastos]

It was a real giraffe! T___T

[@AKmumu]

The giraffe was actually real and they were with it at the zoo everything else is blue screen

[@SanctumGamingNetwork]

The giraffe was real, they said they were trained giraffes in the making of the episode.

[@anttiharju3739]

Thanks John Connor and Pocahontas for these great reactions for this absolutely wonderful show. Gotta watch some of your others

[@DarkKnight2037]

I have a lot to say about this, but i can't rn, hard to formulate into concise words Maybe i'll make a video about it someday?

[@caiuscosades362]

She’s right. Fireflies didnt want it hard enough they should have brought more guns and better shooters.

[@DugTheDog]

Ashley Johnson, not Jenkins. lol

[@BoldCaster]

It’s a critical role meme She’s on a dnd show where people have called her Ashley Jenkins as a joke for years

[@saberzer094]

A bit hard on Merlene there. When your best friend ask u to kill them that is something the average person wouldn’t just go ok buddy sure. That’s something w as human beings would need a minute to proces. Even Joel just completely shut down when Tess was going to sacrifice herself, Henry needed a minute to process what he had to do to Sam. The average person isn’t inclined to kill the ppl they love

[@rick_rosamondbatonrougedry913]

So what if Anna was genetically immune and was shot for no reason

[@DugTheDog]

Her leg shows the infection is spreading normally as with all other human beings by the time Marlene gets there. She was certainly not immune.

[@JPGameStuffs]

I believe Ellie has proven that she's mature enough to decide on her own. The Fireflies, at the very least, should have presented the idea that there could be an extreme risk. Also, keep in mind, Joel wasn't supposed to take her the entire way. He was instructed to drop her off, but the Firefly group was killed. I really like the way Bella played Ellie. When she was in the backseat, the way she looks at Joel, it was like she had a strong feeling when she asked if people were hurt, then asked about Marlene. P.S. Also on the watch thing. They lingered on his watch in episode 8 when Joel was comforting Ellie.

[@JBurnz001]

Or the fireflys could have tried every other way before killing their supposed “only hope” for humanity’s survival. They also aren’t good people so whose to say they wouldn’t monopolize the vaccine in their favor deciding who does and doesn’t get it. Possibly starting another war. Yea Ellie might seem mature but she isn’t an adult. That’s why we don’t allow kids to make important decisions in the country they live in because their mentality changes as they get older.

[@AbstractMedia24]

Joel should have also gave her that choice if you really fell that way but maybe you accidentally left that out, and if you were paying attention closely to the story you can see the obvious hints that Ellie already made her choice they even try to make it even more obvious by introducing the Henry and Sam arc but unfortunately most people did not get it

[@JBurnz001]

@@AbstractMedia24 Joel was never going to get the chance to ask Ellie what her choice was. They were literally informed to kill Joel if he tried anything. What do you want him to sit there and hold down the fort until the drugs wear off and Ellie comes to? That wasn’t going to happen. It was never an option for Joel even if he wanted to give Ellie a choice. Yea the story might show hints at Ellies answer but Ellie also thought it had to do with her blood and all they needed to do was draw some blood. They never once told her she would die for the vaccine. At the end of the day she should have been given the choice. Even if she said no I doubt the fireflys we’re letting her walk out of there because they wanted the vaccine no matter what. For all we know if her and Joel talked about it she may have changed her mind especially after what happened to her at the lodge.

[@SohiHien]

Ellie may be mature but she isn't in a good headspace right now. She would decide to die because she has serious survival guilt and is super traumatized after David. She does still talk about the future so she isn't suicidal but she would absolutely be a martyr right now because she thinks that is the only way her life will have meaning. Not that her life can have meaning with just living a regular life and having friends and family.

[@AbstractMedia24]

@@JBurnz001 first: there's a reason why Joel lied to her because he already knew what her answer was going to be that was a trick question sorry, second the fact that Marlene didn't kill Joel instantly shows she never wanted to kill Joel in the first place and spoiler alert in the second game it goes in to more depth of how the rest of the fireflies we're urging Marlene to kill Joel but she refused and also when Joel was coming from the elevator Marlene had the drop on him and she still allow him to live, and even with all the things he done she still was willing to let him go cuz she understand why he was doing it. But instead of doing the smart thing and the cruel thing by just killing Joel which end up causing her life cuz Joe did not hesitate they were literally show you the parallels between the two of them but it went over most people's head

[@clonexx]

The thing is, it’s not really saving the world. Joel isn’t thinking of this of course, his response is purely selfish and emotional. If Ellie dies, Joel will kill himself, he can’t lose another daughter. So he’s saving himself along with Ellie. As for saving the world, it really isn’t. What Marlene was talking about was basically making bites non fatal. That’s awesome, sure, but it doesn’t change the fact that we are 21 years post apocalypse wifh tens of millions if not billions of infected that are more than capable of ripping people apart. Especially clickers, bloaters and the spore throwing dudes. Raiders and cannibals aren’t going to change how they do things just because bites become non fatal, either. Resources will still be extremely limited and people will still fight over them. When Marlene asks how long before Ellie is ripped apart by clickers or killed by Raiders, none of that changes with what the Fireflies want to do. Again, Joel isn’t thinking this deeply about it, but that doesn’t change the fact that the vaccine is 21 years too late to save anything.

[@emilioserrano5488]

If you had kids and understood the sacrifices you do for them, nothing is out of reach of what you would do for them... as Joel did for her substitute daughter. And as a father I would lie my ass off to protect my child from the truth at that age. Common people, she's 14 years old! She can hate me later but it's a pipe dream to save the world with no logistics to deliver a cure!!!!

[@mysredeyes]

It's Ashley Johnson. While I"m sure Ashley Jenkins is talented, I've not seen her yet.

[@BoldCaster]

It’s a critical role meme She’s on a end show where people call her Ashley Jenkins as a nickname

[@akshitsharma2374]

A cure wouldn't have worked anyways... The factions ... The groups that people have formed would Never come back to work together. The differences between people that this infection has caused is a far bigger threat than the infection itself and is rather irreversible..

[@system0fadowner251]

Yep and it doesn't help with the billions of infected still out there. Maybe it gives us a start that many generations later might help us rebuild, but the old world is 20 yrs gone and can't be saved

[@baldawen]

With the way the infection works in the tv series a cure is not that useful anyway. In the game it also spread by air, so everyone was at risk (or rather hopelessly doomed, which is why they changed it). With it only spreading with bites it's only relevant to small groups of travellers who stumble onto small numbers of infected. In almost all other scenarios the infected kill you anyway and the cure doesn't matter.

[@BernicePanders]

23:00 - Ya know, every time I see how horribly Marlene handled this, I'm like, ALL YOU HAD TO DO IS LET THEM SAY GOODBYE!! She would have convinced him to let her! That woulda stopped the needless killing!! 😫

[@SLENDAMANN]

What 14 year old is going to consent to be euthanised? There's a reason they knocked her out and got to work immediately - she'd never consent.

[@abhijeetashtikar]

This!! Absolutely! If Marlene was so sure that Ellie would've made the right decision (as she was telling Joel afterwards), then why did she not ask Ellie in the first place!! And the doctor? He was the only person Fireflies dared not touch.. Had he just refused to perform a killing surgery till Ellie gave her consent & allowed Joel to say Goodbye, all this could be avoided! Whoever saying the doctor was so innocent & Joel killed him middle finger to them! Doctor is more to blame than the other Fireflies!

[@DancingSamurai]

@@abhijeetashtikar I think the point was that Marlene WASN'T sure (at least, not until she confronts Joel with the question and sees his reaction), and she didn't want to ask in case Ellie said no, because she would then be a monster. She didn't want to live with that guilt and betrayal of Ellie and her friend, Anna. So she didn't ask, and couched it in "making sure she didn't suffer or have fear". And if Joel wasn't there, she would've gotten away with it too.

[@abhijeetashtikar]

@@DancingSamurai Yes. In any case it is Marlene to be blamed for Joel killing those people. He can be blamed only for lying to Ellie even after she asks for the truth. They are saying that Joel didn't give her a choice & took away the chace to save humanity. Which is logically & factually wrong. He did not have the opportunity to give her a choice! Joel gets to give Ellie a choice only in one scenario - If Marlene told Ellie about the killing surgery, Ellie said yes to die willingly & is allowed to meet Joel. Then & only then he can allow or deny Ellie's wish. That didn't happen. So as a parent he is left with only one thing to do & he did that thing. If anyone is to be blamed now or later in season2 that is Marlene & not Joel.

[@blurrylinesx8039]

For me, it's not even if the cure would've worked or not, it 100% boils down to Ellie being denied any choice on the matter. She didn't went there expecting to die, no matter how determined she was about getting to the hospital. She was making plans for her future all throughout the season and assumed only her blood would be necessary. Marlene loved to talk about choices and how she understood the dilemma, except she didn't, because she never had the guts of waking up Ellie and having to face a possible "no". A selfish reason. It's not a "noble sacrifice" to save the world anymore, that's just child murder. It's WRONG. If you leave out the morality it's just about survival. Survival is agnostic, survival doesn't care. But human beings care, and we as a race will never get anywhere without empathy and sympathy. The prior episode about the cannibals is exactly this: humans using all ways to survive. Fedra gunning down innocent people they couldn't allocate to make sure they wouldn't be infected? Same thing. If the first step into a new world is the murder of an innocent child and no one is batting an eye, than that world isn't worth saving. Team Joel 100%

[@liaspencer7984]

Agreed. I would've done the same thing under that exact same situation. At least wake the child and explain the surgery to her!

[@patrickconfoy2982]

I mean how did you type all that and still come to the conclusion of team Joel? He also robbed her of her choice and it was made very clear that he didn’t suggest waking her up and asking because he knew the answer was going to be “yes”. He didn’t stop it because Ellie was losing her choice, he stopped it because HE couldn’t bear to lose her, it was a profoundly selfish decision. Joel killed dozens of people that almost certainly had no idea what was going on. He is supposed to be wrong here. He is a deeply flawed and broken individual and that’s interesting.

[@StKBelarkor]

@@patrickconfoy2982 I disagree Joel is not supposed to be the only wrong side. You can look at it from a Parent/Guardian perspective and any parent would have done the same as Joel. Plus as basic human decency the Firefly’s should have told Ellie prior to surgery. She probably would have still gone through with it but it was wrong to withhold that information from her.

[@blurrylinesx8039]

@Patrick Confoy i said i'm team Joel, i never said what he did was right. For me, there are just two wrongs here. What choice could Ellie possibly be given when the second he tried to get to her, the order was to gun him down? I don't work with "Ifs", I work with what happened in that exact moment. And even if Ellie would've most likely consented, SHE STILL DIDN'T. There wasn't any consent for Joel to steal from Ellie because the fireflies had already taken that away. If Joel didn't act, then Ellie would've died and maybe the cure would have worked, but it'd all have happened unbeknownst to her. She wouldn't even know her immunity finally led to something. The fireflies took Ellie's agency and acted out of desesperation, and in result, Joel acted the same way right back, by keeping that agency away because he didn't trusted any of them to do right by Ellie anymore. How could he? My point was that the chain of catastrophic events that unfolded at the hospital were essentially triggered by the fireflies, and therefore, if I had been put in Joel's shoes, I would've done the same. Even for a child that wasn't my own. And I'm aware Joel is still the bad guy. I understand there are no easy answers to this and some people won't agree, that's just where I stand

[@patrickconfoy2982]

@@StKBelarkor the fireflies clearly thought they were doing her a favor by not telling her. No fear, just gone. They were explicitly not giving her a choice, it was the survival of the human race on the line. Joel ALSO gave her no choice, doomed humanity, lied about it, and I sure hope none of the dozens of people he killed were parents or children (bit of a spoiler but they definitely were). And he did it all because of his trauma, not because he was respecting Ellie’s choice, or he would have actually given her a choice.

[@damn8759]

Are you going to play tlou part 2?

[@vampujazz9454]

The Giraffe is real his name is pabo

[@CDMS_pt]

The giraffe is real not cgi.

[@camilorodriguez7561]

No usaron CGI en la Jirafa, literal usaron una de verdad

[@celestinopereira]

First, the show is fantastic. Follows the game almost perfectly. Episode 1 and 2 for me are even better than the game. The 3rd is a big detour but it's a beautiful story. I just wish that instead of developing the story of Bill and Frank, Sam and Henry and Riley this season, they had done it separately in a series they could have called "Left Behind". So they allowed more time for Joel and Ellie's journey. Regarding the last episode both in the Show and in the game I feel that more could have been done, and that's the only thing I have some doubts about, for me the story in the Hospital should have been handled differently. After 20 years of waiting, this miracle appears, they weren't going to treat it like it was so urgent that they couldn't wait another day, or try everything without killing Ellie. A simple conversation between the doctor, Marlene, Ellie and Joel explaining that she could die and that this is a long shot. Ellie would want to take the risk, Joel wouldn't accept it initially but in the end he ended up acquiescing to Ellie's wish. And when the operation was to start, Joel look into the clock and remembers Sarah, and the memories of having lost her, of not being able to save her make him angry and the he changes his mind and go to slaughter everyone in the hospital. When Ellie wake up in the car and asks what happened he would say that after all the doctors couldn't do anything and that she was no different from other people who were also immune. This would made Joel's act even more selfish and brutal and further justified Ellie's feeling that she didn't mean anything.

[@BedbugGaming]

You were great in Terminator 2. L is right. It makes little sense that a doctor is racing to perform brain surgery on Ellie, hours after she arrives.

[@BOLDcast]

💀

[@moruemourue9692]

She could have gotten the infection from the knife and not the bite.

[@SeeMore-ki7mq]

The Giraffe's real

[@coastermania17]

Keeping the game mechanics, except Ellie didn't ride on a single pallet

[@mikaltima]

From the moment Ellie wakes up she doesn't believe a word Joel is saying...IMO

[@TukaihaHithlec]

You seem to be very knowledgeable and remember a lot about the game, but Joel absolutely uncomfortably compares Sarah to Ellie in the final stretch. It’s not quite as awkward, but he does talk about doing stuff with Ellie that he used to do with Sarah, and how he thinks they would have liked each other.

[@Ozai75]

For me it comes down to this. The reason the Fireflies never gave Ellie a choice was because *it didn't matter what she said* They were going to kill her for their *attempt* at a cure. "He *thinks* it will work..." despite if she'd said yes (which likely she would have) OR if she'd said No. That makes them worse than Joel in my opinion, and Joel's pretty damn bad.

[@thrummer1953]

I agree.

[@Vextipher]

Agreed there.

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

The Giraffe was real, the background is fake. And good eye, spotting Laura.

[@mikecannon8079]

I think RONDA ROUSEY would be the perfect ABBY in Season 2

[@bestistmate]

Real

[@aemondmommasboy78]

Am I the only one who agrees with Joel killing those bastards?

[@StinkFingerr]

Not at all. Marlene was full of Crapola. Joel did Right. They absolutely forced his hand.

[@Ruxster1]

Johnson!

[@BOLDcast]

Her friends on critical role sometimes call her Ashley Jenkins as a joke lol It’s been a meme for years now

[@Ruxster1]

@@BOLDcast I realised this when you explained it later :(. awkward. my bad!

[@TheDemonquayce]

Spoil game on ps3 (in my memory) i am playing the game 3rd time Actually, in the game, a lot of information can be read and hear. It said : we already try several times to produce a cure, based on immune person, and they failed every time, and they all died, of course... so, in my opinion, they just want a cure so badly that they are ok with killing people for that... so, Joel had no choice to kill all of them to save Ellie.

[@superronjon]

This is not true. They had no other immune people, there haven't ever been any besides Ellie. They talk about previous attempts at making a cure, but not that those attempts have any immune people involved in them, just that they have been trying.

[@TheDemonquayce]

@@superronjon That's the reason i said, in my memory, i am not far from the hospital, so, i will refresh the message if i am wrong. But i was almost 100% sure when i write it xD (sorry if it's a false memory of mine who cannot accepted the cruel reality...)

[@mysteronix]

No one else is immune like like Ellie, your memory is trying to protect Joel 😱

[@TheFlameIam]

i think both choices are wrong. i think asking ellie what she wants to do after giving her all the info (like it might not work, may not be able to be distributed, etc.) & respecting her choice would be the only right thing to do 🤷‍♀️ "joel person" - "marlene person" both are wrong lol i dont think either of them knew what ellie wanted, its all assumption until it is said by her. not saying u cant understand or sympathize with either side, or agree with either side but i think it should be done with the understanding that both sides are objectively wrong in their approach.

[@thrummer1953]

Ellie said that very Day to Joel, that after their visit to the Fireflies, She and Joel would go anywhere He wanted to live. Does that sound like she was contemplating being Murdered?

[@baldawen]

I can understand the reasons for both. However I think that the fireflies went about it in the most stupid and wrong way possible. They could have easily convinced Ellie to die for the cure without being so violent about it. And with Ellie convinced Joel would not have went on a rampage either. Basically if they weren't such assholes they would have gotten what they wanted.

[@TheFlameIam]

@@baldawen yesssss!!!!

[@TukaihaHithlec]

It’s interesting how most people fully support Joel because “that’s what I would do” as if Joel wouldn’t massacre everyone they love for the one person he loves

[@alan-daniel]

I mean, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of people understand that... that's the entire point of it. "That's what I would do" = "the person I love is more important than every other person and there's nothing I wouldn't do for my person"

[@TukaihaHithlec]

@@alan-daniel But we are not Joel. Him saving who he loves is killing everyone we love. Maybe the comment isn’t coming across right.

[@Holdfast-]

Personally I think regardless of whether they would've succeeded to make a cure, the Fireflies are probably the worst people to have it. Marlene's entire drive and willingness to sacrifice Ellie to find a cure is based solely based on the need to justify their morally questionable actions. Their willingness to accept collateral damage because they believe the cause justifies the means makes them no better than FEDRA and frankly probably worse. #JoelDidNothingWrong

[@alejandrobonfil2818]

Desperate people do desperate things. Joel and the Fireflies are no different from each other. They are just two sides of the same coin, and accepting that what Joel did was equally as horrible and selfish is what makes the story so good. It is selfish, it is horrible, and it DOES get rid of A CHANCE for the world to be repaired. The fact that Marlene is able to sacrifice Ellie shows just how much the world has broken her. The fact that Joel is able to sacrifice the world for Ellie shows how much he is also been broken by the world.

[@Vextipher]

@@alejandrobonfil2818 Well put. #GiraffsDidNoWrong

[@StinkFingerr]

Under Marlene, the Fireflies became what they were formed to fight against.

[@mrdavman13]

Yeah I don’t get why this dude is such a firefly fanboy. They are evil. Random bombings, they can’t control who will be hit. Recruiting minors and teens ? Killing civilians? Shit killing fedra soldiers with no actual plan of governing or any ability to control the mess the create. Marlene didn’t give a shit about her word or promise. She saw this as a test and her firefly goals were the only thing that matters. Just because their goals were noble, it matters what happens along the way and the choices you make. Marlene was not a good person. Jerry Anderson was not a good person. The firefly’s were a terrorist group. They just wanted to justify their immoral actions they’ve taken. They even say it themselves

[@gaieepo.jeffrey]

6:56 That concept is so terrifying. How did she come up that? That's deep.

[@nekonochesire6023]

I watched the finale with my family yesterday, and my parents of course knew nothing about the game, it was pretty funny how fast my mother sided with Joel. As she said for a parent that's a no brainer, even though it's selfish, even though it's not right and you know it, they'd still do it without hesitation. Overall great series, everyone loved it, though as we discussed it we agreed that ep 7 was pretty weak and there wasn't any need to have the flashback be so long, even more so as it cuts through a tense situation.

[@StinkFingerr]

It was totally right..

[@aishaalamoudi599]

Giraffes, Ellie and Joel are real, everything else CGI; shot in Calgary. This show though; Creators were right, it's about relationships, about people; it's called the Last of Us, a reference to the people surviving, not The Walking Dead, Resident Evil or World War Z, all references to the monsters. This show pulled it off to the last moment and these relationships were the backbone of the show to the last moment.

[@squidhimself9371]

I know it’s selfish but I agree with Joel, I’d do anything for my daughter, humanity can get wrecked. I wouldn’t have lied to her tho.

[@mikaltima]

Marlene lies to Joel...She was not there when Ellie was born, in fact she wasn't there until hours later. If Marlene was there on time she could have saved Ellie's Mom and avoided all of this.😉🤔

[@NigarIsHere]

Spoilers!: R.I.P Jerry.

[@serbio26]

You're forgetting that Ellie is 14 years old. Her brain is no fully developed yet. Marlene says that Ellie would have sacrificed herself but we really don't know, probably she would, if she was willing to sacrifice herself for humanity She absolutely would have tell Joel, and we all know that he would have not allow her to make such a decision. That's why Marlene doesn't tell Ellie that they were going to kill her to extract the cordyceps and possibly make a cure. Basically Marlene made a mistake by not killing Joel By the way 100 % team Joel here He did the right thing by preventing a murder of a child for, mostly, political reasons

[@CatDuckChu]

not CG is was real