The Finale Hurts?!? | The Last of Us Ep 1x9 Reaction & Review | Naughty Dog on HBO Max

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[@AugustEverywhere]

In EP 1, Marlene states she put her in FEDRA school and was not her mom in their first scene together.

[@itss_nattyj]

Came here to say the same thing. Hope they see your comment. 😊

[@beastlydevil777]

And it is explained in the 1st game. Marlene promised her mother to keep her safe. FEDRA would not have been my first choice but the Fireflies were a armed guerilla group so she wouldnt have been safe in their group either.

[@cerberus01]

And maybe she did recruit Riley on purpose, so that she could send her away to protect Ellie. Upon recollection maybe Marlene feels ultimately responsible for Ellie's life because of her mom and her best friend's deaths and the learning of her immunity.

[@EsperUltima]

@@beastlydevil777 agree. Marlene perhaps understand that her Fireflies wouldn't attack FEDRA school because it is a school with kids and she has a say to it because she's the Leader of Fireflies, but FEDRA is considered fascist who know what they're gonna do if they attack Fireflies, they could possibly kill just about anyone. Also Fireflies move a lot while FEDRA stays in a relatively safe QZs.

[@beastlydevil777]

@@EsperUltima exactly, the Fireflies are a mobile group. They dont stay in one location for too long if it doesnt benefit their mission in the long term.

[@alanfoxman5291]

I like the minimalist nature of Joel's rampage. They didnt glamorize the violence first off but I think the directors wanted to present it as a stark choice between saving the world and saving Elli. They didnt push one side or the other.

[@yohanespaskal9352]

Joel know people better, fireflies with cure just gonna be another dictatorship, they won't share the cure to all people they gonna use as bargain power. Noone can save the world, might as well Joel save who's he can save, just like Tess said in her last moment also in line with message from Bill, to protect his purpose which is ellie.

[@hayderneamah1323]

They failed tho . Alot of people still don't get how horrifying what Joel did .

[@alanfoxman5291]

@Hayder Neamah I think we do get it. It is horrifying what Joel did. And it's horrifying for a reason. What would you do...what WOULDNT you do...to save the life of someone you loved...particularly your child. (And I know Eliie isnt his child but he now sees her as such). Would you kill someone to save your kid? If it's the person threatening my child, you're damn right I would. What about someone who's just standing in your way? What about an innocent person who just got in your way? What about innocent people who arent in your way and are no threat to your child directly? It's the Trolly Problem and it makes for fascinating moral and ethical discussions. And for those of us with kids...The answer I think is pretty easy...I would let the world burn to save my kid. But then comes the next part of the discussion...What if your kid is willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good? Do I let them make that choice? What Joel did wrong and what Marlene did wrong...was to take away Ellie's choice. The horror from Joel wasnt all the people he slaughtered. It was lying to Ellie and taking away her choice to have her life (and ultimately her death) have meaning. (And yes, she can go on to have a meaningful life and find love and happiness or whatever but that's not the point. It was her choice of whether or not to sacrifice herself). And ultimately that was the horror that Marlene was perpetrating as well...Not giving Ellie the choice to volunteer for the procedure. She seems so certain of what Ellie wanted but yet didnt trust her enough to make that decision for herself. Ultimately, both of them are no better than the cordyceps fungus that removes free will from its victims. And that's the true horror.

[@hayderneamah1323]

@@alanfoxman5291 i don't mind him saving Ellie and killing the fireflies but what he did to Ellie he wasn't saving her cause he "loves" her he just see her as a replacement for his loss "she healed him" which is fine but he goes beyond saving her and taking her choice and her future choices he make sure the doctor and Marlene dead so she has no way of changing her mind . He traps her in a relationship with no other choice and lie to her so she will never leave him to go look for them and to use her immunity for good , And she trusted him and the last scene shows how she doesn't believe him but stuck and Bella Ramsey did great job showing that ,That's why she wanted nothing to do with him in Jackson. People especially young gamers didn't get that ,They made it more obvious in the show but still some people don't see it.

[@kratosgow342]

They said Unforgiven is their inspiration of how they present violence where in that movie we don't see Clint Eastwood character shoot many people until the very end

[@carolxs]

The scene where Joel opens up to Ellie about his scar and how she helped him overcome his trauma was a beautiful addition. It tells us that Joel knows she has been through enough to be able to be talked to as an adult, that she would understand the weight of his attempt, it shows him finally being open and vulnerable, and it shows that Joel has convinced himself that Ellie was his purpose, almost an esoteric reason why he didn't die.

[@EsperUltima]

Mirrored Bill & Frank's story...Joel couldn't live without Ellie.

[@thomashiggins9320]

The massacre in the hospital was both aggressive and violent, but it wasn't gratuitous.

[@axlm.808]

Joel turned into beast mode Hence the muffled sounds and the slowmo

[@jaysundae]

Marlene and Anna were friends in the game, and she'd promised Anna she'd look after her. You can also find recorders in the hospital with Marlene's voice recordings, she talks to Anna (in spirit), she's remorseful and essentially apologises to Anna. In the show, Marlene specifically states in ep 1 that she dropped her off to the orphanage because it was the best place for her

[@JacopoBasanisi]

Also I might add, Marlene knew, or at leas suspected, Ellie was immune from day1. Maybe that's why she kept her alive after the mall incident. I mean, even if Anna said Ellie was ok, in a fungi pandemic you would kill the baby (and the teenager)

[@OblivionZer0]

@@JacopoBasanisi Marlene did not know nor suspect Ellie was immune at all, until after she got bit. We know this because Ellie was held for weeks undergoing the monitoring we see in episode 1. We also know that Marlene was not the one that found her based on their introduction after the monitoring was finished. Ellie just got lucky the Fireflies that found her believed her and didn't shoot her on sight because of her infection.

[@jonathanpowell7256]

@@OblivionZer0 I think Marlene did find her as she states to Ellie that she has her to thank for her men not shooting her. I think Marlene took a group of Fireflies to the mall that day to pick up Riley to take her to the Atlanta QZ and found Riley dead and Ellie bitten but not turned.

[@anthonyscaglione9183]

Can I just say, as a very emotional guy myself, how incredibly nice it is to see another man be openly emotionally vulnerable

[@sillyskater2]

Damn the loyalty to the game story is amazing. They really did great with this show. I just love the performances this episode and throughout the whole season. ❤

[@bevssabado3460]

Well, as the show runners said, it's made by fans for fans. That's why there's so much love oozing from every detail

[@EsperUltima]

@@bevssabado3460 yeah, Craig Mazin is a fan of the game that's the reason why he wanted to make the adaptation. 😊

[@J1ntu]

Ellie's mom is the VA who played Ellie (Ashley Johnson. Also Laura Bailey reprised her role as one of the nurses from the 1st game. I can't wait for season 2! Edit: Remember Marlene told Ellie that she was the one who left her with FEDRA so it makes sense that a resistance leader wouldn't want to keep a newborn in case they had to suddenly leave plus it was the safer option. Edit 2: Isn't the giraffe theme the same music that played during the final scene with Bill and Frank?

[@RanticProductions]

Bella doesn't need to age up she purposely did things to look 14 xD she's the age Ellie is in the second gameeeee

[@Redjack10]

Welcome. To Giraffic Park.

[@iczorro]

I'm sure 9 people will say this, but Marlene explicitly says that she is the one that put Ellie in FEDRA school as a child.

[@samshootman6510]

They're in Salt Lake City, not St. Louis

[@G1Transformed]

@Nerdy Nightly, 20:33 they didn't encounter an Infected, but this episode did have one. I guess I'm an odd man out, as I appreciate the focus on people rather than the Infected, as people were always the bigger threat given their ability to strategize. The Infected, when use certainly up the tension! Watch your reaction again. Watch how different you respond to scenes when Joel and Ellie encounter people versus when they encounter Infected. There's a huge difference, viewers are on the edge of their seats when an infected is on screen or heard--last week many people thought they heard one in the forest when Ellie was hunting the deer. Craig Mazin's decision to use Infected sparingly paid off big time, and will serve the story better going forward, IMHO. I don't know about you, but the zombies in the Walking Dead loss the ability to scare me a long time ago, and that's because the series flood the scenes with zombies every chance they got! I'm so happy this series is going a different direction than the norm.

[@matthewtopping2061]

This might just be the series that finally cures my addiction to reaction videos. I absolutely do not want to relive this bleak, bleak episode and this entire bleak, bleak series. It only gets darker in The Last of Us Part 2. Enjoy, everyone! I guess.

[@michaelmcclelland9876]

Many people try to simplify the solution to the final conflict, by saying "just let Ellie choose". This completely ignores the fact that: 1) Ellie is a child 2) She is struggling with SURVIVOR'S GUILT, not necessarily in a healthy mindset. 3) Joel doesn't TRUST the Fireflies (for a variety of reasons). They are undeserving of being the beneficiaries of Ellie's gift. 4) There is no "choice" to be made. "Save yourself or save the world" is NOT a choice. It's a burden. No child deserves that kind of burden for a world they didn't create.

[@Zoidberryable]

Children are people with their own rights just like anyone else. It was her choice to make in the end and both Marlene and Joel took it from her. By your criteria, Joel is also untrustworthy and undeserving of keeping Ellie with him given his deeply selfish actions (lying about the entire incident).

[@xxfutureisnowxx]

I can NOT wait for Part II to kick off....first game is a masterpiece, but Part II kicks it up a notch

[@Henrique-wv9xq]

Good to see a fellow Part 2 fan, I'm just worried about the harassment that will inevitably fall on the actors involved, when the haters see that there will be no rewrite of the second game's story for the show, like I've seen so many wishing in comments, it'll be that whole shitshow from the game's launch again.

[@Spud1210]

Totally agree, people who bash part 2 don’t realise that the whole point is that the game is challenging you on wether you can grow to care about Abby, and not everyone is going to be able to do that (just like Ellie). Just like the first game with Joel saving Ellie, part 2 aims to have you debate wether Ellie is still in the right to go after Abby by the end of the game by telling you her story. TLOU1 is about a hardened and broken man (and not a good man btw) reopening his heart to love, but TLOU2 is a revenge story with no happy ending. I will die on my hill that I believe TLOU2 is even better than the already brilliant original. But jesus I feel awful for whoever is brave enough to play Abby, and would suggest they stay off of social media for a good few years

[@CristianCorbett]

@@Spud1210 I have found my people

[@xxfutureisnowxx]

@@Henrique-wv9xq @spud1210 I actually don't think the backlash will be as bad(if any at all). A large chunk of gamers are a..."special"...kind of fan. Intensely loyal and also the worst of humanity all at the same time haha

[@Henrique-wv9xq]

@@xxfutureisnowxx Oh I agree, I think TV audiences will be more tame, but the ones that hated the game still hate it with a passion to this day, even if the backlash isn't as bad, I'm still sorry for whoever ends up playing Abby.

[@rillzy9637]

I love how they did the hospital scene. No big action sequence, just the ominous music as he just massacres the hospital. It really makes you feel kinda icky or conflicted and just plain uncomfortable. We’re on Joel’s but at the same time it still doesn’t feel good.

[@desertrose0027]

I work in pharma manufacturing, so my experience is with drugs, not vaccines. But the regulatory stuff around getting a new drug researched, approved, developed and manufactured is enormous. It takes years because there are so many ways that things can fall through, and the regulatory burden is so high (understandably so). The COVID vaccine only got produced as quickly as it did because everyone was focused on it due to the need and governments were willing to devote resources to cutting red tape. In The Last of Us you'd need a large enough pool of people to test it, which alone is hard enough given that most of the human race has died. You also need clean maintained manufacturing facilities, all of which have likely lingered for 20 years and would take a lot to get back online if they could work at all. You'd need things like cleaning agents to clean the equipment and rooms, ingredients to make the vaccine, supplies (vials, cartons) to bottle them in, employees who are trained enough to be able to manufacture it and QA test it. It all seems impossible. Then, to top it all off, if it's an injectable vaccine (which seems likely), it needs to be a sterile manufacturing environment, which is basically a clean room. I've no idea how you would do that in a world like The Last of Us, let alone do it at a scale required to immunize the remaining population of humans. The fireflies are also likely to be choosy about who they distribute the vaccine to. Marlene says that it will help "all of humanity", but would they really share with Fedra employees or sympathizers? Or anyone outside their organization for that matter? I'm not sure. Another thing that really bothered me is that Marlene never got informed consent from Ellie. Everyone says that Joel took away her agency to choose, but Marlene did as well. Informed consent is a major pillar of medical care. She should have been told what the procedure entailed and that she would die from it and allowed to agree to it. Instead, Marlene assumed that she would agree and rushed her to surgery. Ellie didn't even know she was drugged. It's messed up.

[@eveninglion137]

You are one of the very few who seem to understand the vast gulf between "successfully synthesize a cure" and "successfully immunize the world". I do think that the ending dilemma is presented with the intention that we believe that creating the cure is possible, and that Joel seems to think it was possible. Certainly, a world with a synthesized cure is in a better place to try to recover than a world without, and I think we are intended to read Joel's actions as forcibly shifting the former possibility out of reach in order to keep Ellie alive. From a viewer perspective, the dilemma would be less of a dilemma if Joel is obviously in the right and the doctor was a hack, etc etc. So I think we can make the assumption that her death really would have contributed to successfully creating a cure. As for the 'what if' of distribution however... The world is 20 years into societal collapse, humanity is reduced to small communities who are suspicious or outright hostile to outsiders. The promise of a cure is something that has been rumoured and disproven a hundred times over already, if Joel and Tess' reactions to the job initially are anything to go by. And Marlene's Fireflies are not a neutral force, she heads up a resistance group opposing FEDRA. There are other resistance groups, there are other groups in general from small towns, to raiders and slavers. Assuming they have the ability to create a cure from this event, and then mass produce it, in order to distribute the cure, you would have to advertise that you have a cure. And you are dead on in that raiders and slavers alike would make the Fireflies their #1 targets: either to control the cure for themselves, or to destroy its existence if they can't control it; so they can maintain their status quo. And again, the Fireflies are not some neutral force. If they successfully test it, they'll quietly immunize their leadership, then their rank and file, before attempting to use it to strong arm remaining FEDRA enclaves and other groups into surrender. Control of the only source and distribution of cure would potentially grant them immense bargaining power and leverage. But that's only if they survive. As Marlene said, she lost half her group just making that trip to Salt Lake City. We've seen instances of well equipped Fireflies massacred before. They don't appear to be any sort of dominant regional power (Kansas City seemed more powerful just militarily), and so I doubt their ability to ward off the violent attention of god knows how many hostile groups that would come their way once the news slips out. Finally, I agree that Ellie's final line there is an acknowledgement that she knows Joel is lying to her. Just like Marlene knew Anna was lying to her when she said she cut the umbilical before getting bitten, when we know she didn't. Anna did it because that was her baby, and if she has to lie to her oldest friend point blank to make sure her baby lives, that's what she's going to do. Joel did it because that's what he's there to do. He killed a hospital full of Fireflies to save her physically, and he lied to her face in an attempt to save her mentally. Like Bill, he found someone worth saving, and he protected them, even from themselves. Ellie seemed to have the intention of seeing that trip through to the end, and while Marlene didn't tell her she was going to die before putting her under, part of the implication is that Joel lied to her because he felt she would have said yes. And he couldn't allow that, because that would mean he failed again and he would lose a daughter again. It's absolutely a paternalistic, borderline selfish? type of response, lie to your kid so they aren't scared, so they can live on without a shadow hanging over their heads, even if you have to carry that weight and the betrayal of their trust and agency forever, because allowing otherwise means you failed as a parent. Neil Druckmann said on the companion podcast that they had focus groups when making the game of who agreed with Joel's choice to get her out of the hospital. The answers were split 50/50 for and against Joel for those who weren't parents, and 100% for Joel for those who were parents. Unconditional love is wonderful, but we must remember it is by definition, unconditional. There was never any variation of events where Joel would have let Ellie die there, that was the parental choice.

[@dolcegal100]

Marlene and Anna being friends was in the game. BUT if you didn't scavenge through the hospital, you could easily miss it. We only find out that they had a friendship through letters Marlene writes to (deceased) Anna, as she's struggling with the decision about offing Ellie :) I think I found 2 of them, but there could potentially be more.

[@Riftsrunner]

I was thinking about finding a cure in the apocalypse very doubtful. Especially if your first foray into synthesizing a cure is speculative nonsense that kills the only person you know is immune. Here is what, small steps, find out how she is actually immune, see if that immunity is transferable, see if it requires actually killing the patient. Are we even sure Ellie isn't a carrier, in that it doesn't affect her, but for all intents and purposes, she is essentially an infected that hasn't lost its mind. For all we know, Cordyceps Ellie might just be the Typhoid Mary of the infected. We essentially have only seen her bite one person and broke their skin, and she cleavered him to death shortly afterwards. Could her bite be just as infectious? And for the sake of argument, I am not entirely sure giving the Fireflies the cure is the best alternative. These are a people who have resorted to terroristic acts trying to overthrow FEDRA. How do we know just how altruistic they are? They may become the next FEDRA, in that they would control the opportunities to get the cure. What is to stop them from not distributing the cure only to like minded individuals who happen to believe in the Fireflies creed. And all others needn't apply. Also, I am sure Ellie knows Joel lied to her, but she trusts him enough that he would only do that to protect her. That something was going down and by taken Ellie away from the fireflies, it was really Joel's only option.

[@TartarusIvy]

Marlene probably took Ellie to FEDRA because they controlled the baby formula & hospitals. If no firefly could feed a newborn, what else could she do?

[@bridgethaines7127]

Bella is 19 years old atm so...she doesn't need to age up too much more for a time jump. The rest can be handled with minor makeup I think. Marlene told Ellie in Ep 1 she was the person who dropped the "orphan" at FEDRA school which is where most orphans went, to keep her safe.

[@houseofaction]

Joel actually made the correct decision, even though vaccine technology is pretty advanced NOW we still do not have any vaccines for fungal virus's so its highly unlikely they would have suceeded with Ellie

[@shawnloging8649]

The season has been incredible at telling powerful emotional stories. The show has not missed a beat this entire season.

[@jasonholman1011]

A lot of other reviews said Ellie would have given her life if the choice was given. I say no, at the beginning of the episode she said she would go anywhere with Joel afterwards, she did say no half measures, but she expected to be with Joel afterwards. So it’s not a given and I believe not probable that she would have agreed.

[@biglu323]

@6:14 - No. Marlene reached out to Ellie's friend and had initiated her into joining the Fireflies.

[@mjdaniel8710]

If you ever go the the Calgary zoo look for Nabo, he was the Giraffe used for that scene

[@thrummer1953]

Salt Lake City Utah.

[@MethosFilms]

Those mountains are in alberta canada. The show was filmed up here in my canada 🇨🇦

[@de68a]

The hospital scenes were filmed in an abandoned one due for demolition in Grande Prarie, Alberta.

[@kevinscottbailey8335]

They talked about Marlene putting her in the Fedra orphanage when she was a baby back in episode 1. She tells Ellie that

[@JacopoBasanisi]

Fedra is basically "the government", so it make sense they had schools, Firefly would probably die at random, not the best environment

[@LuckDragonLair]

I'm fairly sure it's not intentional but the way Ashley yells Marlene! with the emphasis on the N at the end like MarlEEENuh was the same as the way Bella said Booonesuh describing the mortal combat fatality. :) Marleenuh and Boonesus :)

[@blastingweevil2968]

joel started to think of ellie as his daughter in this episode and as a result (being a parent myself) i can tell you joel did exactly what a parent would do you would do anything no matter the cost to protect your child, and now for joel Ellie is as good as his child and when marlene decided ellie was to die joel just could not let that happen ! Fantastic episode and fantastic season cannot wait for next season.

[@yohanespaskal9352]

Joel know people better, fireflies with cure just gonna be another dictatorship, they won't share the cure to all people they gonna use as bargain power. Noone can save the world, might as well Joel save who's he can save, just like Tess said in her last moment also in line with message from Bill, to protect his purpose which is ellie.

[@Pandaemoni]

I mean...in Episode 2 the mycologist tells them to bomb Jakarta and everyone in it, including her family (and that presumably included her kids and perhaps grandkids). With around 10 million people in Jakarta, that is a lot of "Ellies" to die in those bombings. With this show I hear a lot of "all parents would..." but, as a parent myself, I have no idea what I would do if I lived in the show's universe.

[@seelfire4725]

nah im sorry not every parent would do that. just look at how many parents beat or do worse to their child because they are gay or trans. not every parent loves their child or is able to express that in a healthy way. and also if you have multiple children and only one is immune and you can save the two others.. and you child wants to save them.. what will you do?

[@smeg4brainsukaya]

Marlene and Anna being friends and her bringing Ellie into the Boston QZ is cannon with the game. But you only get this information from a note Anna left Ellie and in game recordings as well as episode 1.

[@deanthemachine8879]

I’d love to see a ratio of reaction videos comparing how many Nerdy has cried at vs how many Claroos has cried at. My estimate is like 30:1

[@Andjelka99]

That one Sandman episode?

[@deanthemachine8879]

@@Andjelka99 Sandman might have been peak Claroos crying reactions

[@bevssabado3460]

Hope yah guys react to the making too, confirms the giraffe real 😁 "It was made BY fans FOR fans"

[@PrimarchEldarAutarch]

they wouldn't let Ellie have a choice - they want her brain, they will take it - don't care if kid agrees or disagrees (Ellie didn't think they were going to end her - she said she'd go with Joel after they were done, but she probably would've said yes) fireflies would take people prisoner and do the messenger tests on them

[@houseofaction]

and they most likely would fail, not even with all our advanced medical technology today do they have a vaccine for fungal virus's the experts say it will eventually occur but not for a while

[@Arezoo298195]

I have difficulty with the doctor’s choice to cut out her brain on day 1! Cutting someone’s brain out should never be the first choice, there is at least a hundred different other things you try first. Also there had to be way more testing before the surgery should happen! Not to mention, what if whatever they want goes dormant or dead the minute it no longer has a live host. The doctor was a moron who deserved what he got. Everyone else though… well those poor people.

[@ranialian8537]

Agreed. It kinda bothers me too that the doctor went from zero to a 100. "Hey, here's the one human in existence that we know is immune. Let's kill her right away and study a corpse". It makes no sense. Other than that, I loved the finale, though I still think the season would have benefitted from at least on more Joel-Ellie centric episode. Or maybe that's just me wanting more 😅

[@Arezoo298195]

@@ranialian8537 I think it would have been better to have a few months time jump here, where there has been extensive tests done and Joel and Ellie were lulled into a sense of security and Ellie had maybe already gone in for a bunch of procedures like a biopsy or a spinal tap so they didn't think anything of it and then Joel finds out and does what he does. It would make more sense that way.

[@riftplut0474]

@@Arezoo298195 in the game it’s meant to show how incompetent the fire flies where

[@Rickety_Cricket]

As a parent: Joel did nothing wrong. Period. The instinct to protect your child (or step into a parental/protector role over a kid's safety) is *so* intensely and deeply instinctual, just... embedded inside of you - you would literally kill people with your bare hands to get to and protect and safeguard them from harm. Actually, he did make one mistake: he left those two nurses alive. Just saying, if it were me, NO ONE would have lived through that sweep and clear - especially ones that have seen her face and know her name ffs! I feel like Joel should have definitely eliminated those two. Loose ends like that are something I feel like his character would have never in a million years allowed to live. And if anyone wants to go with the 'they were unarmed nurses' defense - come on, man! They were going to kill a non consenting 14 year old girl! Oooh HELL NO! They would have cost me two more bullets just for that alone on my way out. I said what I said. The only thing that truly bothered me was that Marlene and the rest of the fireflies never asked Ellie what she would have wanted to do. Yet even if they had, she's a traumatized girl that wouldn't have been in a stable mental state to even grant her consent to begin with. She just hacked a sicko would be r*pist into hamburger helper with a butcher knife they planned to fillet her with to freaking EAT her! She was clearly struggling with that trauma in this finale. The trickery of it all just made my blood boil. Plus, the flash bang grenade thrown at an obvious father/daughter just walking down the road, having a laugh?! These were not 'good' people. All of that put together just sucks the grey area right out of his decision, for me personally. (For context: I'm a gamer, but I never played the game and had little to no knowledge beyond 'there's a guy named Joel and a girl named Ellie and it's some kind of dystopian apocalyptic situation' I only took in the content so far as the show delivered it - and it ended up being a really great story with awesomely talented actors performing their asses off in every 👏single👏 scene!👏) Can't wait for the next season! Please don't spoil it for the rest of us! 😂

[@gailseatonhumbert]

Non game player here. I really liked the heavy silence in the hospital battle scene. It takes it out of the "fun" of a combat sequence you get in a game. Serious and melancholy. The medical ethics are clear they shouldn't be killing Ellie for this. The doctor just has a theory and Ellie is 14. I had no problem with Joel killing Marlene and I don't even know the specifics of how upset he still is about Tommy. Aka "turned my brother against me". I would not have thought to go back when his first shot didn't kill her but his reasoning was correct. I was married to a military member and know many. Joel is pretty standard in his combat behavior - the medical attending were unarmed but the surgeon threatened him and he took out every person with a gun. Another channel quoted a study about a survey on the game. Parents agreed with Joel's actions while non-parents were divided.

[@yohanespaskal9352]

Joel know people better, fireflies with cure just gonna be another dictatorship, they won't share the cure to all people they gonna use as bargain power. Noone can save the world, might as well Joel save who's he can save, just like Tess said in her last moment also in line with message from Bill, to protect his purpose which is ellie.

[@tananario]

So parents are cool with their kids living in a hellscape? The Great Meteor can’t come soon enough.

[@rowaystarco]

@@tananario Kids have been living and surviving in hellscapes for thousands of years. And Joel very much knew that Tommy didn't live in a hellscape, but a quite functioning town. He knew that this town was waiting for Ellie and him.

[@damienb8568]

I dont think we can justify joel actions and it was selfish.

[@rowaystarco]

@@damienb8568 They wanted to kill a child, of course he was justified. No laws of today would allow this killing and it would be generally seen as immoral to do it. In the world of TLOU there are no laws.

[@OnlyInRushville]

OMFG.... DEAD!!!! 🤣🤣😅😂😅14:26

[@tatitorodriguez376]

Why cut out the time heals all part?

[@WarNeverChanges9191]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWKvpWyirbycgtk She saw the giraffe through the sandblasted windows 🙂

[@dan_ngyn1828]

To me that's certainly the point, the progression through the hospital and massacre is meant to be cold-blooded and absolutely chilling (not heroic and thrilling). Adds weight to the moral complexity of Joel's actions.

[@NHNuisance]

For those who didn't, I'd highly recommend loading up an Ellie section in the game and open her backpack and look through and read through the items in her backpacks.👍

[@Attelocin217]

My guy, Marlene literally told Ellie she put her in a FEDRA school. I know it's been 7 weeks but you gotta keep up.

[@jasonstyles2798]

The girraffic park 🥲

[@ogieogie]

The Ellie and Marlene story was started in the first episode. Marlene told Ellie that she was the one who had turned her over to FEDRA to raise.

[@victorewah2659]

What Joel made very clear in this episode is that he would do anything to prevent having his heart crushed again and torn from his chest. Unless you experienced loss in the same manner as Joel did with Sarah you could never fully understand what motivated him in that hospital, which I fear went somewhere beyond just love for Ellie. Joel in essence recovered a part of himself that he had lost so long ago and he's intent on never letting it go EVER again, if he can help it anyway. For 20 years, Joel has just been existing and once he met Ellie he actually began living again; so ask yourself, if you were Joel could you just give that up to go back to how you were?

[@dlund8715]

No. If I had been asked this before I had kids yes but now I would 100% make tbe same decision Joel did. Is it selfish? Absolutely but reliving thst pain would be to much.

[@thomasjohansen8152]

You guys should rewatch ep1. Marlene tells ellie she was the one Who put ellie i fedra school

[@realmorgan3075]

Can noone study the medical books and gain the skills that the dead surgeon had? Given nothing else to do on earth, seems possible to figure out the cure without Abby's dad.

[@IntrepidHomoludens]

Thanks for sharing your reaction! You played the game but probably failed to find the last recording that was in the hospital, of Marlene talking to Anna postmortem (so more a soliloquy), apologizing to her. They HAVE been best friends ever since before Ellie was even born. In the show finale, Marlene took newborn Ellie to Boston and left her with FEDRA, THE ONLY TRULY SAFE PLACE TO LEAVE A BABY, guaranteeing her protection and training her to fight to ensure she can protect herself. FEDRA probably didn’t yet know Marlene was Firefly, or one of her agents left Ellie at FEDRA’s doorstep. Also since you missed it there’s the parallel of Ellie having to kill her best friend after being bit, and Marlene having to kill HER best friend after being bit.

[@OnlyInRushville]

5:50 In episode 1 Marlene tells Ellie she wasa the one to put her in the Fedra orphanage. "What are you my mother or something?" "Do I look like your mother?"

[@brianspeaksnerd]

I'm here for the critical role discussion. how far are you into i'm assuming the first campaign? also, marlene put her in fedra school because she knew that is where she was safest.

[@mariobacco2589]

The thing with Bella aging tho it’s weird cause she is like 20 years old so how much different can she look from 20-21 or 22 years old , game Ellie did get a lot taller and just all around looked older , but still Bella will be fine for season 2 they’ll make it work

[@JULIASMITH-eg9kp]

Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.

[@AuroraMeansDawn27]

The baby was actually a set of newborn twins, the giraffe is from the Calgary Zoo

[@sherank244]

Lets gooooooo

[@RonnieG]

How did you leave out "I guess time heals all wounds" "it wasn't time".

[@ValentinasWatching]

The 🦒 music is the same music from that moment in the game. I appreciated that detail.

[@wallykingsborough5811]

The single issue I have trouble with is that 20 years later there would be no more batteries.

[@TukaihaHithlec]

It’s interesting that everyone is asking how did Ellie see whatever she saw, but we can clearly see what she saw as well. Before they reach the opening, we can see the giraffes through the glass and their shadows on the tarps.

[@dirkrousseau462]

The intro reminded me so much of the Blood Snow intro to that Wheel of Time episode for some reason... I just can't put my finger on it. They were both amazing and had topnotch acting and cinematography!

[@katiewright3309]

I had the same thought as well. Both openings are pregnant women in hard times being badasses. Both give birth to babies that eventually could save the world.

[@lkzMini]

The feel of... "it is succ" Clarus said. Is the same of feeling Empty, maybe? I felt like that since the momento i saw the ep. Dont get me wrong. I loved the ep and the season itself. But i wasnt expecting exactly this. My english is not THAT good, hope it's clear.

[@homeiswhereukeepurdealdoe]

marlene ended up being the most stupid character for me. all of this could have been avoided by TELLING ellie what's what, and for her to decide, cause u know she would have been like, "yeah, its what has to be done." and if marlene didnt tell her cause she didnt want conflict, all she would have need to say was "for riley" and then instead of treating joel as a hostage, SINCE U KNOW WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE DOES, all u needed was to bring ellie to tell joel what's what. and yeah i would have been sad as fuck, but joel would have understood it coming from ellie herself. *ta daaa, thats how u solve a conflict. * but instead u do this in the most shady way, and make two ARMED idiots to take joel outside... leader of the fireflies my ass.

[@laratheringfabian]

Exactly 😭😭 Marlene really had it coming tbh lmao

[@edasher06]

Bella is 19. I think they could make her look aged

[@codyprice2616]

Trivia fact: Ashley Johnson and Leonardo DiCaprio was on the same TV sitcom back in the early 90’s called Growing Pains.

[@nickwalker2438]

Is 1 of the nurses Laura Bailey from critical role?

[@Amfkndinosaur]

14:26 lmaooo ah the good old FLAME THROWER

[@zfaulhab]

Go back to around 32:33 in the show and tell me you saw the one person that Joel didnt actually kill getting away was also the only one completely in the shadows so you couldnt see their face and the only one with backpack and a long single braid.... 👀🤔

[@CommonDaeze]

Marlene said FEDRA school was the safest place to put Ellie and it wasn’t until she got bit and I’m presuming Marlene or another firefly went to the mall and found Ellie and her dead friend. Ellie has less of a connection to Marlene than Marlene has will Ellie.

[@MolnarG007]

Yep they addressed this in episode 1. At "Are you my mother or sg?!" scene.

[@joeokabayashi8669]

Marlene put Ellie in the FEDRA orphanage/school knowing they would take care of her - Marlene explained that to Ellie in the first episode. I agree that Marlene had observed Ellie througout her growth and indeed wanted to separate Riley from Ellie to ensure Riley did not influence Ellie before Marlene was ready for Ellie to leave FEDRA. It's been a great journey with you covering this series. I look forward to your future content.

[@nicolasrodriguesdossantos1881]

And explain how she got to the point that she could give Ellie away for a cure. She didn't REALLY raised Ellie, if she had expend one day with her for real like Joel did she would never do it. But again, that's why it's an amazing story. She acted exactly like she would.

[@jaysundae]

The vaccine would work, Neil Druckmann had already stated that it would work in the context of the game, and they also made it a bit clearer in the show that it would work and they'd certainly attempt to distribute the vaccine to as many people as possible at the very least. Either way tho, the point of the ending is that Joel saves Ellie for himself and for Ellie regardless of whether it was going to work or not. There's no right or wrong in this situation, just different perspectives. It's completely understandable from Joel's perspective, and it's also understandable from Marlene's perspective, tho she absolutely should've let Ellie make the choice. Also, mini Part II spoiler: Joel also states at the very beginning of the game that "They were actually gonna make a cure", so he certainly believed it. And the show version of Joel also stated in ep 6 that Marlene is no fool, and that if she believes it can work, it will. Another spoiler is that Ellie can't infect other people, as we find out in Part II

[@thrummer1953]

There have NEVER been any successful fungus Vaccines. However, We already have effective anti-fungal medicines such as Diflucan.

[@jaysundae]

@@thrummer1953 That's irrelevant, it was gonna work within the context of this fictional story. And again, as I said, that's not the point of the ending anyway

[@thrummer1953]

@@jaysundae If that is true, then they should have kept out the extraneous stuff. But speaking of the context of the Story, how do You explain the Television show at the beginning where the expert says that it was impossible to make medicines or vaccines? Remember? That is part of the context as well.

[@jaysundae]

@@thrummer1953 of course, but she also said it wasn't possible for cordyceps to infect humans. And they didn't have any research on humans. Plenty of scientists have also said plenty of things weren't possible in the past IRL only for the scientists to eventually find a cure for something. At one point, no one thought the Earth was a sphere and that it revolved around the sun, or that we're a tiny speck of dust in the vastness of the universe. Time changes things, there's always a new discovery. AGAIN, that isn't the point of the ending at all, idk why people are so hung up on the vaccine argument lol. Point is they've been setting up Joel's character arc this entire season to lead up to this moment, and a lot of us understand it 'cause a lot of us would do the same for the people we love

[@thrummer1953]

@@jaysundae Didn't She also claim that the Vaccine would fool the cordyceps into thinking people were already infected and therefore they wouldn't be attacked?

[@andresfelipemanjarres7061]

Ashley Johnson is a treasure, and we need a cameo of Laura Bailey too in the second season, i don care the haters...

[@brandonokeeffe1193]

Laura had a cameo in this episode aswell

[@andresfelipemanjarres7061]

@@brandonokeeffe1193 Yeah I know, but let's be honest, I talk about something with a little more reverence, a la Ashley. And I know many hate the character that she portrays, but if they are going to follow the story arc of the sequel, it seems to me that it is worth paying respect to the other Critter in the franchise

[@brandonokeeffe1193]

​@@andresfelipemanjarres7061 the whole cast has parts in the games, Travis has probably the next biggest part after Laura and Ashley, would be cool to see them all in the coming seasons when they cover part 2 events

[@BernicePanders]

I don't know if Ellie's immunity was from her mom getting bit just before giving birth or because she used the knife she killed the zombie with to cut the cord, either way, it likely acted like a vax & sort of gave her just enough of it to build immunity...

[@petercourtien4581]

God, I love you two!❤️

[@aimeemarie5462]

"holy fuck! Just say Hi!" 🤣🤣 EXACTLY!!

[@bryanwest8434]

How Ellie ended up with fedra is explained in ep 1

[@sarcasmxkate]

Marlene told us in episode 1 that she put Ellie in FEDRA school. I would imagine it's because that was the safest option, despite her opposite stance Marlene is smart enough to recognize that they were the most protected of the citizens. What I find so interesting about Marlene saying she's the only other person who understands is that she thinks she does. She hasn't been raising Ellie. She hasn't been protecting Ellie. She's not been there at all. She hasn't become that child's parent. That love doesn't exist. In concept she understands, but on a core level she has no idea. Does she care for Ellie? Absolutely. Is she probably right Ellie would have chosen to sacrifice herself? 100%. But she did the exact same thing Joel does and doesn't actually give Ellie the choice. The difference is that Marlene is driven by duty, not love. Her duty to the many. It kind of makes Marlene the realest "hero" we have in this show. She genuinely thinks about the many. Is she right? Honestly, probably. But that's not the way the majority of humanity works and for a TV show (and game) it's the lesser interesting route and the option that really makes you confront your own decision making. And that's terrifying.

[@gadfly149]

Many knew the story before watching. This portrayal still pulled you into every moment and held you there…grounded. The show didn’t allow us to lose our suspension of disbelief. The giraffes are a perfect moment, because until then, Ellie is deep in the trauma of the journey, punctuated by barely surviving an attempted rape. Joel was trying to reach her, but she was still understandably adrift in a fugue. His scar story reached her a bit, but the giraffes were a much needed reminder of innocence.

[@datdudeinred]

People asking how she knows he is lying - Remember when ellie asks joel did you kill innocent people he didn't answer the question & just stayed quiet. Here also when she asks is marlean ok? he did the same thing.

[@sionat29]

My oldest son was watching this with me and he asked me "if we (either him or my other children) were Ellie, would you do what Joel is doing for one of us?"

[@filmiaction7739]

React to" KGF "movie

[@auntvesuvi3872]

Thanks, Nerdy! Thanks, Clarus! 🧟‍♀ #NerdyNightly #TheLastOfUs #TLOU #TheLastOfUsHBO

[@mghJD]

You need to watch episode one again. All of your explanations about Anna and Marlene’s relationship are explained there.

[@datdudeinred]

The irony is one of the nurse was played by Laura Bailey.

[@brandonokeeffe1193]

She voiced one of the nurses in the first game too

[@jessetuttle9287]

Like "Blade."

[@bertinamiller9626]

one problem I have with the notion that cordyceps thinks she is already infected...then why would the infected try to bite her

[@thrummer1953]

Very good point.

[@johnjungkook2721]

Let's be honest, that cure was a total shot in the dark. And when you put aside that glimmer of hope that the cure would have worked, Joel's rampage immediately becomes logical and justified. Joel saw Marlene's plan as nothing but the sacrificial murder of Ellie. To some extent, what Joel did to the Fireflies is the same thing that Ellie did to James's group in the previous episode.

[@mghJD]

It’s not that cordyceps “thinks” she’s infected, that’s just a layman explanation of an immune response. It’s similar to receiving a polio vaccine. Ellie’s body received an attenuated strain of cordyceps from her mother thus causing Ellie’s immune system to not react to cordyceps.

[@bertinamiller9626]

@@mghJD but then why removing the cordyceps completely makes sense

[@LadyEmaleth]

@@bertinamiller9626 It doesn't. It's stupid and lazy and goes against what we know of fungi and how they spread. They said that cordyceps in her produces chemicals that "trick normal cordyceps into thinking she is infected", which is probably a very bad attempt at saying that it simply produces chemicals that stop normal cordyceps from growing in her body. Fugi in real world often produce chemicals that stop other organisms from living in the same environment, that's why first antibiotics were derived from fungi. Think of something like pennicilin, but working against normal cordyceps. So in order to produce that anti-cordyceps agent, they need that mutated cordyceps. They need to grow more of it and then identify and purify the anti-cordyceps agent. The problem is growing more of it and this is where their science falls apart with the idea that they have to kill her for it. Fugi are simple organisms, they reproduce by fragmentation (small fragments of the fungus can grow into larger), budding (some basic cell division) and spores (think of plants and seeds, but less complicated and not requiring pollination), so... they could look for spores in her CS fluid or they could do brain biopsy for a small fragment of the fungus.

[@TerryYelmene]

"What would you do for 'love'... specifically for the 'love' of a child?" ~ THE Fundamental Question posed by this episode... and this series... Great reaction!

[@mjdaniel8710]

Epic end to an epic season, can't wait for season 2, I want to see where it goes after that ending

[@JynxedKoma]

Abby killing Joel with a GOLF club because Niel is a sackless coward and therefore decided to pander to the LGBT community.

[@nicolasrodriguesdossantos1881]

Me too. I'm waiting for the golf competition

[@steviehills4256]

I wanna ask everyone the comments a question Troy Baker asked Ashley Johnson in the podcast: Do you believe that Ellie saying "okay" is her believing the lie or accepting the lie?

[@thrummer1953]

Accepting.

[@MethosFilms]

Marlene was most likely in both camps at the time period that Anna gave birth. She was probably running the fireflies from inside fedra at the time. That is why ellie got with fedra military school.

[@beverett417]

You totally forgot what happened in episode 1!? 😖😖😖 SMH... Marlene explained how she knew Ellie and why she put her in the FEDRA school... Come on man..

[@daven4297]

A real moral roller coaster. Marlene was able to sacrifice the life of someone who was in some way close to her. Joel sacrificed humanity for selfish reasons. He couldn't imagine experiencing the loss of his "own daughter" again. Nothing else mattered to him. Throughout this story told, what is also interesting is the fact that everyone glorifies the murders that Joel commits while protecting Ellie and also everyone condemns others who try to kill Joel and Ellie. The truth is that Joel protects his group, just as Tommy and Maria protect theirs, even David and Kathleen protect their groups... Each of these groups does exactly what Joel does for Ellie. He protects his own people. At this point I come to one very disturbing conclusion. If such or a similar pandemic ever happens, the biggest enemy will not be a virus, a zombie or something like that. The biggest enemy will be the other person, other group. Every group and every person, because their goal will be only to save their own people. Marlene was the only one willing to sacrifice Ellie, whom she raised as a daughter, for the good of humanity. Ashley Johnson did a great job creating the character of Ellie in the game. And the show also created Ellie as her mother giving birth to her... Great symbolism showing that it all started with Ashley... Very clever. By the way, did you know that Ashley starred alongside Mel Gibson in the movie "What Women Want" in 2000? As a teenager. A bit offtopic . I have never played the game. I saw a game play of a Polish KZbinr (SargethePlayer) who introduced an additional atmosphere to the game with his voice. Through this game play I fell in love with this title. Also my teenage daughter (actually she was a few years younger than Ellie at the time). Game version was of course with Polish dubbing voices, which I have to say is at least as good as the original. The Polish voice actors who voiced Ellie and Joel did a really great, great job. The sadder news was that on August 1, 2024, the actor who voiced Joel in the Polish version of the game died. He was 54 years old (RIP Krzysztof Banaszyk).

[@user-it4zl2bv2m]

Wow. In episode 8 you failed to show “I got you Baby Girl.” And now for this episode you failed to show “it wasn’t time that did it.” FAIL. TOTAL. FAIL. Kinda the whole point of the show. But, you had to make lame jokes. So, there’s that….

[@soccertl]

I had the same question about how Ellie wound up with FEDRA when she started with the Fireflies.

[@Tubenuub]

Because she's be safer there. Stability, food, shelter, training and education. The fireflies can't offer that to a kid.

[@jonathanpowell7256]

Marlene left her with the FEDRA school in the Boston QZ. She tells Ellie this in the first episode.

[@tananario]

So everyone gets to live in a hellscape because of one man’s fee-fees? 28:43 Really? You think Joel would have respected Ellie’s choice???? He would have slaughtered everyone, physically fought & dragged Ellie away. 31:16 Bill would have refused treatment. 😂 32:56 There would be people who would volunteer for trials. If you have a terminal disease, why not? What I am hearing is that giving up is the way. I don’t agree. At all.

[@erinhaury5773]

I've heard a lot of people say this episode is short, and it is, but that's because the gameplay/narrative ratio at that point in the game is fairly disparate. After everything happened in Silver Lake, we immediately jumped to Ellie and Joel being right outside of Salt Lake City. Between that point and when they end up with the Fireflies, it's all combat. Since they cut that down for the show, it makes the pacing quicker and lends a sort of rushed feeling to the episode. That said, I have enjoyed your reactions immensely. I binged every single episode of this today, and it was a great use of my time. I love your chemistry and humor, and it's always nice to see people being so openly touched by this story. Clarus really hit the nail on the head when she said that the story is what made the game(s) so great. While I also find the gameplay superb, the story is what dragged me in. The Infected are just the backdrop of danger in a play about interpersonal relationships. TLOU and TLOU2 are both driven forward by their characters, and I find that seems to be a rarity amongst many other AAA games. I think the show did an amazing job adapting this for the television format and I can't wait to see how they handle season two.

[@TJMiton]

The finale had no infected because this show is NOT about the infected, it's about the people. That's been extremely thuroughly established from episode 1 and maintained throughout.

[@t3hsilarn]

Obviously we're discussing fictional science here to a degree, but it sounds a bit like it's just some chemical that tricks the normal cordyceps into thinking you're already infected. So somehow or another they're planning to cultivate and produce just that chemical, so they wouldn't be injecting the actual fungus into people. That being said, since the body doesn't naturally produce it, you would need regular 'boosters' to maintain levels of it in your body (and hope your body doesn't react to it like an allergen). I guess it might be possible way farther in the future to have some kind of mRNA version which would let the body produce the chemical or even engineer it into people permanently. Of course, this doesn't necessarily 100% solve the problem because maybe there are some strains which have evolved to react to a different version of the chemical. Honestly, after 20 years you'd expect a few different strains to have emerged.