Bonanza Takeoff Performance- When to Continue or Abort

Dan Gryder joined FlyWire to take a look at the Rejected Takeoff, or Aborted Takeoff. We used the recent Bonanza Accident in Corona, CA as the review case and tested several takeoff profiles to determine their affect on takeoff performance. The purpose of the video is not to determine what the pilot of this accident did, or did not do, but to use the facts to elicit performance metrics that all pilots can adapt to their own operations. We highly recommend that you go out and test this yourselves, develop a plan for the time when this situation may happen to you!
FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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[@andyjgreen]

What an AMAZING video. So much to think about. I've had the best Saturday night in for ages watching your videos all night!

[@rickrickard2788]

Came back & found this video. People really have no idea, the insanely valuable information there is, inside this video. Sure, I'm coming from the future, and commenting on this video- But I've learned much over my years- Dreaming of being a pilot, but never being blessed enough to find a way. However- I HAVE been involved in flying, in some way, shape, form, all my life. Life happens. Just the way it is. But I've come close a few times, trying to get my license, it just wasn't meant to be. But I've worked on, helped maintain OP's planes, been up w/them, had sim time, and studying much. What people like Scott, Dan Gryder, (in this video, who DOES now have his own KZbin channel, btw), and a gentleman named Juan Browne offer the Aviation community? Is INVALUABLE. Their insights, discussions, tests, experience, & knowledge, are for HELPING OTHER PEOPLE. In this day & age? This is, sadly, a VERY RARE thing to find. But more- They are tackling areas, NONE DARED TOUCH, before- and for good reason. People are DYING, who NEVER had to. Families are suffering, that NEVER needed to. And what? Y'all think the GOVT.'s gonna give a rats ass? It takes them 2-3 YEARS to solve things Dan, Juan, Scott, can sometimes discern, with 1/10TH what they have! All the while, planes are falling, and people are dying, when PREVENTION is available! Dan Gryder recently did a video on just how many times the NTSB created "Recommendations", on mainly GA accidents. Out of 1,400? THEY GAVE JUST ONE! ONE! Their damn JOB? Is to GIVE RECOMMENDATIONS! These three gentlemen are fighting a WAR, that ALL PILOTS should be waging with them, FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY! And they do so without fanfare, (save.. uh, maybe Dan's flamboyance & sarcasm- which I actually love), and for OTHERS, not THEMSELVES. They're trying to SAVE LIVES. Our Govt? Yeah, not so much. Right now, this kind of compassion is dying in America. Y'all best wake the hell up, and realize what the ACTUAL "Good things" still are, grab hold, and NEVER let go. Help PROMOTE them. SHARE their channels. HELP THEM, HELP YOU, TO LIVE! I so wish I could have been able to fly. On my own. With my own, whenever I wished to go. That will have to remain a dream now- But I'll tell you this- I'd of been right there with these three? Because THEIR'S, is a JUST CAUSE. And ALL are doing it for others, and for their LOVE of Flying. 3 gems. Best protect them.

[@Dr.DeHicks]

These videos are excellent. Thanks Scott. Keep them coming. I know they take a lot of work.

[@michaelwilliamsd.o.5006]

The boat analogy hits home! Thx

[@charlesatrealeyesimaging8543]

As always, Thank You Scott. You’re making us all better pilots. I’ll be out in the morning with MY stopwatch getting my takeoff/abort metric on this TAT G36.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Excellent idea!

[@hygri]

Spot on video Scott, well done for bringing Dan along to do what he does best.

[@michaelwilliamsd.o.5006]

you guys are so much alike. Great lessons. Total GOLD!!! X Seconds to takeoff or Abort......... Thank you!!!

[@roberthaggard8001]

Great video, Scott! Very informative. I am going to start including the go/no-go point in my takeoff briefings.

[@trilomann]

nicely done Scott and as always very educational. Great work!!!

[@davidpevsner4515]

Man, another terrific video Scott. +1000 for Dan's endorsement. Spending hangar time while rehabbing a shoulder, and learning so much from thoughtful videos like this. Really feeling your heartfelt sentiments today. Got out for lunch up the canyon 5 minutes this afternoon and sat in CAVU 77 Degree weather staring at a beautiful green hill where 9 souls lost their lives in that helicopter crash last Sunday that was just next door. SMH. Keep 'em coming Scott.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

David, thanks! Hang in there and do your PT... it works! You'll get there!

[@burliesanford1863]

I'm not a pilot but always loved airplanes and aviation . You and Dan Crider let some very good knowledge , seems like most of it pertains to good common sense . Like I said I'm no pilot but that was good stuff in the video . Enjoyed it very much .

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Cool, thanks

[@centralwebs]

Very valuable contribution guys giving us all a reminder to go back to basics and work it through until we fully comprehend every aspect of what was just discussed and demonstrated until it's second nature. This video is sure to save a few lives in the future for those who work it through. In retrospect it's surprising new students are not put through your test runs early in their training to make them fully aware of the importance of these critical decisions and make them automatic on every flight , it's a thought that makes a lot of sense to me.

[@Resort_Fans]

Thanks for your videos Scott. As a new Bonanza pilot I've found them to be invaluable. Instructional and yet entertaining too!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Ken- thanks! I'm not an over the top kinda guy and I try to be entertaining;) so, I appreciate it!

[@quantumjim45]

Wish I'd been schooled in this 30 years ago. Lucky to be alive. Full load Durango CO below std temp. Throttle did not fully call for engine power on takeoff, but I was oblivious until I barely noticed I wasn't taking off quickly enough but then KNEW I was in trouble when climbout was about 100fpm. Long runway, but I didn't realize I should and could have have aborted. VERY lucky I got into the air and with no obstructions, was able to climb a bit and circle to land. Mooney 201 just serviced and throttle linkage must have come loose during flight from Arapahoe/Centennial to Durango the previous day.

[@akb5531]

Excellent! Thank you; you & Gryder are a good team. I love your explanations and all the directions you approach this at. Just got to the end where Dan says he's not getting his own (little itty bitty fledgling KZbin) channel...ha! It gotcha, Dan...

[@ZachTate]

Great video...now time for me to test the same theory. Really apperciate the information and video! Thanks!

[@gorgly123]

I don't know why you don't have more subscribers. Great channel.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Jon- thanks a lot! the base is growing as more and more folks find the channel. Spread the word!

[@46bovine]

There aren't that many pilot's and there are fewer folks who own/ fly BOnanzas.

[@brianburchart7592]

Great methodical approach and content, thanks! Keep up the good work

[@ecossearthur]

Always great advice, with sound reasoning! Thank you!

[@caseycartusciello4746]

Thank you for the videos and data. So extremely helpful

[@baterista08]

Not a pilot but I have always wanted to get my PPC and I have been learning a lot from videos like this. Thanks!

[@gordon7470]

I really wish when I was taught to fly that just as much, if not more emphasis was placed on aborted take offs. Long time ago but sure was all about engine failure on takeoff. Flew out of many short fields and you have displayed that if I had an aborted takeoff then I probably would not be alive today!!! Used to fly with a guy who suffered from pressonitis and he nearly killed me on a downwind landing into a short field. Anyway , all behind me now and I’m still here but only by the grace of God.! Please keep trying to educate people,you are doing a great job and hopefully will save lives. Love your channel by the way (U K pilot)

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Gordon!

[@jasperricca]

Great Video. Thanks for your hard work. Your data and comments are very educational. On a side note, full aft elevator is soft field technique. This is done to keep the nose wheel light. Short field technique requires holding elevator neutral (least drag) until rotation. If I'm worried about runway length/high density altitude/aircraft weight, I follow the 50/70 rule you mentioned. I really like your comments about knowing how many seconds it should take to get to takeoff speed.

[@mattguthmiller]

Good subject. Instead of centerline stripes though, find a landmark that's halfway down the runway, often a taxiway, "just before" (or after) a taxiway, or something identifiable like a tree or a parked airplane, or know what distance that is on the distance remaining markers. Time only works if you know what the time for that density altitude and weight is... As for pulling the mixture, I think you could certainly make the argument that a windmilling prop driving an idling engine will produce more braking effect than a windmilling prop driving an engine that's not running.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Matt- Personally I'm not a fan of landmarks, too easily overlooked and too variable. But you're absolutely right that pulling the mixture will help you slow down during an abort. I've used it and it is almost as good as brakes.

[@gscop1683]

excellent video ! one reason I like the Bushpilot videos is that he Always articulates his planned abort speed, location, and intended aborted direction if he runs out of runway.

[@beachside180]

Thanks Scott, though not a Bo guy the concepts are really good. Bringing some of the airline discipline to GA can certainly benefit the accident statistics hopefully in a good way.

[@johnapstrader3459]

First of all.... absolutely excellent topic as all other videos by you. I'm certainly not an expert, I'm an old rusty. It seems to me that one of the easiest fixes to many of these issues is that the FAA would crack down on inflated, exaggerated or marginal reported performance numbers.

[@jamesspahmer7193]

Thanks for putting this out, great info..."..and your correct about the fact that we GA pilots don’t focus enough on this very important area of each and every one of our flights.

[@jennis23]

Great video.

[@piper0428]

Good presentation

[@bobcooper1737]

Thanks Scott. I’m fresh out of VFR school on Cessnas and wanting to learn about Bonanza and low wing. Your shared wisdom on all these videos is so valuable. I’ve spent so much time on short field take off, never thought about short field abort…I like the clock seconds method myself because you might not be familiar with field for a land mark

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Bob. Keep at it!

[@markanthony653]

Good upload very interesting very informative thanks.

[@Joe_Not_A_Fed]

Well now I feel a bit goofy. On another vid, I suggested you get Dan on. I even watched this vid too. This must have been one of your first vids I watched. Sheesh. I must have left my memory in my other pants. Thanks for taking my advice before I even thought of it.

[@backcountyrpilot]

I see you brought the gear up maybe 15-20’ above the runway. I was taught to wait until 500’ AGL in my G36 for 3 reasons. 1) Incase the plane settles down to the ground 2) When retracting the gear it creates more drag then when down and locked. 3) Less workload on takeoff FWIW, I experimented and don’t remember a big difference in height reached by the end of a 5500’ runway at 2,300 MSL with a Tornado Alley turbo-normalized 300 HP Continental 550. The plane weighed 2720 empty and I typically flew with 60 gallons and my 180# self. Ground-roll was about 1500-1900. Love the tip about deliberately popping the 2nd tire if the first fails. I saw a C182 blow a tire on landing once.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Maybe I should do a video on gear retraction on takeoff. I’ve tested the concept of more drag on retraction on takeoff. I didn’t see it at all on a 24 V airplane and marginal on a 12 V airplane. If the air is turbulent wait a bit, if the air is smooth and you think you’re going to settle then you yanked the airplane into the air at too slow a speed. Workload on takeoff….. don’t buy it at all. The issue on takeoff is to accelerate to your climb speed as fast as possible… with speed you have options. Period.

[@davidd6635]

Thanks for great info. Have a comment about props. Had a turbo 210 with that similar skinny taper tip prop. Never again! Upgraded to a Black Mac and never measured like you're guys are doing, But, the acceleration was Very Noticeable! And climb, and speed. Would not give a dime for a trainload of those skinny taper tip props. One of your other videos, an A36 pilot commented he had similar results.

[@jetdoctn]

One thing I always add on a less than 4000ft(home field 3500') at gross weight is to hold the brakes until the engine is at full power and then start the take-off roll. 15 degress of flaps standard(Comanche 260B). Not off by midfield its an instant abort.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

Those strong 260hp will reach Vr at around 600 feet even with little wind and 4 seats full.

[@pamagee2011]

Commenting before I watch. I use 70%/50%. Let’s see how I do, two of my favorite resources

[@joemayo8108]

Dan. Great to see you again. Hope you come back to Khab. Again.

[@darrenhillman8396]

Hi Gunny! Another fascinating and thought-provoking video. Good of the landaway airfield to let you practice what you needed to generate your take off data. I guess you had pre-arranged that with them? I’m only a sim flyer, but follow real-world GA events and read the UK AAIB incident reports. And subscribe to a few GA flyers her on YT. Keep up the good work! Best wishes from the UK.

[@waukeshapilot6462]

Dan has been everywhere lately

[@insideoutdad]

Hi Gunny, the first time I did a soft field takeoff in my Bonanza it was my last one using the book procedure. I could not get to rotate and had to push the nose to level to get to rotate speed. It was painfully obvious that we were not accelerating. I was on a grass strip, North Fox Island, 3000 ft with 100 ft trees at both ends. I don’t go there at max weight. If I had held the nose up I would have put it in the trees. I recommend everyone to go out and practice different techniques and determine the best procedures before testing it out in the real world. The soft field technique that is taught is dangerous, go find the numbers on long runways.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Paul- Excellent input, thanks!

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

I taught and did Bush Pilot work on Cherokee sixes and others (South America) Some pilots pull too much elevator without noticing it. You only have to LIGHTEN the nose wheel. If you pull too much nose high you are delaying the take off OR stalling the wing on the ground. Even on rough fields i better deal with a damaged nose strut later than hitting the trees at end.

[@ProPilotPete]

The A36 Bonanza is not a great short field airplane. What I’ve found is the difference between using flaps and not is insignificant and using flaps for takeoff tend to make it struggle in ground effect for longer. You get off the ground quicker but not climbing real well. I also prefer to accelerate to,a higher rotation speed, give up so,e more runway for a much better initial climb. It doesn’t lumber along in ground effect trying to get on the front side of the power curve. The back side of the power curve can be a scary place if you have trees coming up. I want to be at Vx or Vy as soon as practicable. Enjoyed it. Aborted take offs are something we all need to think about.

[@dickjohnson4268]

Mighty fine Scott. One thing the POH does not cover is how much of a hit performance takes a hit when the inner gear doors open. It is negligable in most scenarios, but... Grass and tar-strip runways are always a question mark for ASD.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Dick- Thanks! I love grass strips, but they do add to the drag coefficient!

[@gtm624]

Great demonstration and explanations in this and previous video. I’ll second dans closing statement about your channel. I’ll also say the same about his channel that he wasn’t ever going to make 🙄🤣. 🦶👉🏼👄. 🙏🏻🙏🏻 love you guys

[@dwgeardown]

Great videos and discussion! Quick question for you on your "positive rate, gear up". In a single, should you be waiting for usable runway to be gone before raising the gear?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Good question and my answer is that for a typical GA runway... NO. If the runway is 10-5,000' long, maybe. Energy is the most important thing right after takeoff and the gear is nothing but drag, get rid of it. That's my nickel.

[@willjernigan333]

It looks like it is hard to see out of the bonanza while taxiing because the plane is not level. Is this a correct assessment or is it not hard to see out of

[@tstanley01]

Your observation about holding the front wheel off (soft field) increases takeoff distance by a substantial margin has also been an observation of mine, but without any data recording. Doing soft and short field training I realized early one that the techniques are almost opposite, but unfortunately in most places, soft fields are typically short as well. Add to it the increase drag from teh field, and I don't think I would be doing much gross weight short and soft take offs in a Bonanza, or any other HP single out there...

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Justin- thanks! Sometimes the 'conventional' wisdom is not based on fact or experience. Based on my testing and seeing the results of others attempts (like that Cessna) I no longer advocate holding the elevator full aft. The impact of drag is significant!

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Agreed with you 100%. It can also lead to not release the back pressure on time and lift off too early and stall back to runway from over ground effect. Better to only LIGHTEN the weight on nosewheel only. Some apply too much back pressure without even noticing it. They get distracted by the multi tasking of using all controls while accelerating on rough bumps areas. Another thing is LOC on ground by going to the side of it. With nose wheel on ground with some weight on it you have more control of that. Too many runway excursions in USA GA on take off. Due Full power on they can be of worse damages than landing and power off runway excursions.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC In the accident that was the reason for this video, that is exactly what happened!

[@BonanzaPilot]

Throw a ND filter on that forward facing camera or put the rosen visors down to wash out the prop noise

[@thomascharlton8545]

Hi Gunny Great collaboration there with Dan Gryder. An excellent and important subject for discussion. Been so long since I’ve instructed it hadn’t occurred to me that the “Practical test standards” do not speak to the critical issue of an abort point. If I were an examiner I think I’d like to see some awareness of this. Be a good topic of discussion at my next hangar flying session with friends. Anything to get people think’n. Regards, Tom Charlton

[@katien1684]

Scott do you do your o

[@johnmorykwas2343]

You need to factor elevation, and temperature.

[@lawrencecarlson2425]

Scott, on what planet does a seasoned pilot jump from an airplane because of gear failure? Beam me up Scotty.

[@mayhempilot6158]

The Aero Studs

[@katien1684]

Scott do you do your own maintenance..work on engines

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Yes, I hold an A&P.

[@hubriswonk]

When and why would a down wind take off be performed?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Why indeed?!

[@hubriswonk]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Well......that answers my question! But I have seen it done twice. I am not a pilot but I am a skydiver and I have been around planes for some time.

[@dm9002]

Another interesting point is: Witnesses at Corona Airport report..... the pilot landed at Corona for a fuel stop only. The Pilot fueled his Bonanza to 80 gallons, had 4 full size people on board, plus baggage. Speculation is the Pilot may have been over weight? If this is true, all this collectively, this pilot didn't have a chance.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

The B36TC wing holds 102 gallons. I suspect that it was full, but have no data to back that up. I think the 80 gallon report came from a local at the airport that warned the fire fighters that the airplane had 80 gallons on board... because most later model Bonanzas do have that capacity. So, that 80 gallon report is a little misleading. I do however, think they were at or above GW and that is an issue.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Turns out they did put 78 gallons in the airplane at Corona.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

Yah, Avoid The Corona Virus. Lets learn well those RTO' points..