Bone shattering locks and leg grabs in Shodokan Aikido

This video discusses the old techniques of Kodokan Judo.
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Video reference:
• 富木合気道　乱取り名場面集
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[@NYTomiki]

A few notes: * There's no grabbing the Gi in this competition (though you can grab the wrist or arm THROUGH the Gi if necessary); effectively speaking, this is "No-Gi" * The face being a legal target, is a necessary compliment to leg grabs as this results in a more balanced posture; as opposed to Wrestling or Kosen Judo which requires a posture that exposes the chin. * Small joint manipulation tends to shape (i.e. deter) the grip fighting you see here. * Tomiki Aikido was developed at Kano's request to "Sportify" the remaining set Jujitsu techniques originally left out of Judo; essentially a complementary style. All serious Tomiki students should also take some Judo. My Sensei says the goal should be Brown Belt in one, Black in the other. * Of all the terrible no-good ways to learn knife defense, having someone chase you around with a rubber knife to score if the least-worst, given the alternatives of live blade (too dangerous) or situational drills/kata (minimally effective). Also, Tanto randori is SUPER tiring and A LOT of fun. The real fun begins when you start to mix and match judo with palm strikes and leg grabs. IMO, Judo + Tomiki Aikido was a proto-form of MMA, albeit with a greater emphasis on safety which makes this combination ideal for civilian and law-enforcement use. Edit: Great Read www.tomikiaikido.ie/files/UserFiles/downloads/Article_Jujutsu_and_its_Modernization.pdf

[@Chadi]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@NYTomiki]

@@Chadi Thank you for bringing a much needed spot-light to this Sport.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Ay,i was getting interested in the Judo-Aikido connection recently.

[@someman7]

I'm surprised they let you post a link. Or would your comment only show to Chadi had he not pinned it? perhaps

[@nappyheaded]

@@someman7 I think youtube is letting you put links in the comments again. I just posted a link in a comment not too long ago.

[@bknight045]

One thing that I learned from Aikido, whether you are Uke or Nage. You have to take care of your partner or tomorrow you won't have a partner to train with.

[@MasterPoucksBestMan]

This is the style of Aikido I studied. I was only able to train for about a year before the dojo unfortunately closed, but it certainly helped me. Tomiki was also high rank in Judo before he even started learning Aiki-jujutsu from Ueshiba sensei. It was after Tomiki learned from him that Ueshiba changed the name to Aikido and softened the techniques further. In some Tomiki schools, judo is also taught, usually as a separate class. That's how it was at my school, but I was unfortunately not able to attend many Judo classes because they were before the Aikido class and I could never get off work early enough to get there in time for Judo class. I always regretted that because it was the only Judo school in my area.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

The Tomiki Aikido folk did cross train a lot with us a lot of years ago, and they actually could make many techniques work, maybe they are the reason why i never looked down on Aikido. They landed many Kote Gaeshi, Kote Hineri and "Aiki Otoshi" (which we call Sukui Nage in Judo), it was very hard to get a sleeve grip on them without getting wrist locked at first haha

[@nappyheaded]

I cross trained in judo for awhile. Sometimes I would do stuff I learned in Tomiki aikido in judo for shits and giggles. I was doing randori with a former olympic competitor and I did something from tomiki out of sheer desperation. I was in disbelief when the technique worked on him.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@nappyheaded exactly haha, Aikido works like ring on the finger while grappling. And if you can make something work on grappling-only rulesets, then that means that with some practice you will be able to make it work on stuff like MMA

[@edtheangler4930]

People talking about "making aikido work" as if its not a real martial art wich it is and only some reddit mma circlejerk says it isn't

[@AdventureThroughLife]

​@edtheangler4930 they just mean that the way aikido is trained without pressure results in Aikidokas being completely unable to use their martial art in any manner at all. It is unfortunate that the average black belt aikidoka is clueless once his techniques are being pressure tested by someone who wants to win.

[@edtheangler4930]

@@AdventureThroughLife I call bullshit

[@jiujitsuismyoutlet]

Man the standing submissions are BRUTAL and something we don’t do enough in BJJ. I’ve made it a point to look for them more often and it’s made a difference in my game. Thank you for the video Chadi! This was an excellent breakdown

[@markdaniels4178]

You're very open minded for a bjj brother... that's good because I'm bjj, judo and American traditional jujitsu

[@NYTomiki]

Search for “Jamie Loves Martial Arts” on KZbin. The channel is run by a BJJ instructor who also happens to be the 2022 US silver medalist in Tomiki Aikido. There’s a good series of “Aikido for BJJ” videos.

[@SoldierDrew]

Standing arm bars thrown on quickly like this video shows is dangerous. Good way to get an arm broken at the elbow. And that never fully heals. Very good documentary Chadi, you present factual information and leave your viewers to ponder it for themselves. Tomiki mixed old school Jujutsu , dangerous Judo techniques and Aiki principles of non-resistance to achieve Kuzushi. Very different from the Aiki Kai Aikido , which O'sensei himself stated was not for fighting but merely physical exercise and a way to bring people together in cooperation (choreography) as part of his Omoto Kyo pacifist cult.

[@britishaikidoassociation]

You would be correct, however in competition you are not allowed to take Waki on the elbow, if you do it’s instant disqualification

[@iatsd]

Yes, very dangerous. That's why you practice. And why you start slowly and at walking pace with a concentration on technical skill & perfection, not power. The entire point of joint locks is that they are dangerous. That's why they exist: they work. For this one in particular, later on you add power and movement, but still they are added slowly. In most aikido dojo there is also a cut-off point of application when done at speed - and they appear to be doing it here. They aren't dropping their body onto the joint and continuing the movement to the ground. That will wreak the elbow. They are applying it but limiting the power and depth of application.

[@ambulocetusnatans]

From what I heard, Ueshiba felt betrayed by Tomiki's efforts to make Aikido better, but in my opinion, it was Ueshiba who betrayed the principles of Budo because of his silly religion. I think it was also at least partially projection, after all, Ueshiba himself betrayed his Sensei. Like the old saying goes, " a thief is the first one to accuse others of stealing." if you get what I mean. I respect Ueshiba for his contributions to MA, but I don't have a particularly high opinion of his character.

[@martialgeeks]

Entire Tomiki Aikido is so underrated, even with people who accept it they still tend to underestimate it, JamieLovesMartialArts is a prime example of how good an aikido practitioner can actually be.

[@PolarMorphling]

The way my teacher taught waki gatame was to turn the arm and put pressure on the SHOULDER, rather than the elbow. Once you get the shoulder turned, you can then keep a slight pressure on the elbow for control and zanshin. My teachers would give a point deduction if it was done on the elbow. You can see a lot of shoulder twist, but there are a few shown here that twist on the elbow but still got an ippon. From the judo examples, they kinda take the forearm and turn, putting all the pressure onto the elbow joint.

[@britishaikidoassociation]

Nice video - One bit of advice on a comment I picked up, when uke has Tanto they have to be a certain distance to get a clean strike, hence why you do not see uke “stabbing” consistently at close distant, if uke strikes with tanto too close they get a warning (half point) (shido) taken from them

[@danielcarranza9699]

Excelente, ya hacía falta un video de Tomiki Aikido 🎉

[@tintingengen5601]

Pretty good video. Cheers for it. I learned and practiced for 15 years. I agree with what you just said. The dilemma I found is that the reffing was dominated by certain people who were were rather blind to their quite reasonable (as in who wouldn't be) bias towards their own teams. Sometimes they were just biased because they had only ever seen a certain narrow range of techniques used so missed other approaches. So I would do a move and they would call it as a foul and give the opponent a point and I found this incredibly demoralising. I usually had to travel a long way and spend a lot to get tossed out in the first round was difficult. Also internationals were often picked on and injured because they were internationals - possibly not on purpose. If the reffing had improved I would have hung around. And you are correct as regards the waki - if a person drops on the elbow they will be disqualified immediately. Thanks

[@svatandoost]

That waki Gatami from side control is amazing. I always try to do a kuzure juji fromthat difficult angle. never thought of that waki approach

[@alhuzayl6029]

how interesting! I like a few of those throws (combined with the elbow manipulation).

[@jamesfrankiewicz5768]

I've had my shoulder temporarily separated by wakigatame (or as we call it "rokkyō"). Fortunately, my shoulder popped right back into place without having a chance to settle into a dislocated position… which would have hurt a whole lot more. When it happened, the eyes of both me and my partner got really big and we both decided it would be wise to slow it down a bit. I train at an Aikikai-affliated dojo and our version locks up the shoulder, bars the elbow, and locks the wrist (nikyō-style), all at the same time. It's a tough one to take ukemi for, mainly you need to try to circle backwards towards the rear of the person applying it, as you are being brought down to the ground. You have to be extra careful applying it to folks who are unfamiliar with it. The recently departed Yamada-shihan was fond of saying, "You can do aikido nice… or not so nice!" (usually, while first demonstrating the "nice" version, then following with the "not so nice" version of a technique). And his compatriot, the late Chiba-shihan, was well-known for ACTUALLY injuring people every so often, mainly when his uke botched their ukemi during an aggressive version of a technique.

[@ambulocetusnatans]

Be careful. That happened to my Sensei, and the doctor said that once it happens once, it's more likely to happen again.

[@TimRHillard]

Now this is Aikido I could get into!

[@bintarochan]

If I'm not mistaken, the first technique would be Sumi Otoshi (same as the last one). Judo techniques are banned in Shodokan Aikido competition, so it can't be Seoi Nage. The second technique is Shomen Ate. It's difficult to see in these videos, but one hand is on the opponents face. Putting the other hand behind the thigh or the hips is a variation of this technique.

[@killersalmon4359]

A lot of those take-downs that you're interpreting as double-leg takedowns are actually variations of shomen-ate, which is classified as an atemi technique. It's done with the hand on, or near the opponent's chin. To finalize the technique, the other hand often grabs the leg.

[@TimRHillard]

2:44 this is a perfect football tackle. He could drop his level, and explode up on impact, but pretty good nevertheless 👍👍

[@AdventureThroughLife]

It is always good to remember that the techniques we do on the matt can easily be done in a manner that makes them into bone and joint breakers like that judoka who broke his uke's wrist without giving him a chance to tap out. Judo and all other grappling martial arts are very dangerous and on the asphalt and concrete of the city these techniques are even more dangerous. Be careful and responsible but also know that if you are in real danger, be sure to do these techniques in the manner that breaks bones because it will save your life.

[@justinwallace269]

PS: I'd like to see a randori in Aikido and Judo where the person is blindfolded and ambushed by a random assailant right after it's taken off. Each attacker would wear different clothes, forcing you to adapt to the situation and grab what you can for throws. That'd be a really good self-defense exercise to do multiple times a week.

[@adampopeens2728]

is that "self defence for people with phone addictions?"

[@justinwallace269]

@adampopeens2728 You're familiar with gi and no-gi training, right? The idea is to simulate a surprise attack and test your ability to adapt to what the attacker is wearing as fast as you can. Any sort of grappling or throwing is dependent on securing a proper grip, so it's very important.

[@towag]

Its why Tomiki aikido works... Period...

[@michaelcote1942]

Well UFC did prove Bruce Lee right! To be a complete fighter you must know what works and what does not work. Great Channel.

[@Zack1440]

Great video!

[@B-qg1jb]

To use the joint lock, He has to make his opponent's arm stretch out. If he has a sword, he can induce it with blade binding. But if he's bare hands, there's no need to push back. That's why Aikido can't be used in mma. In a way, Aikido is a technique used by a samurai with a knife. So I think they're very different.

[@dianecenteno5275]

First! Thank you Chadi!

[@marekkrajewski9662]

In my aikido style, we trained waki gatame occasionally. As uke you have to think about protecting yourself (ukemi!) so you don't oppose the technique (from a given point on) as not to get hurt. Without that it all just becomes brutal fighting.

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Very interesting. Many thanks :)

[@SL-vk1nq]

Very good video chadi. Merci. That wrist lock from the waki gatame looked like a bad Nikkyo aikido technique. Good call by the refs.

[@Soaring_Hawk]

The problem with Tomiki Aikido IS this type of comp that Tomiki wanted to get away from. He only invented it due to necesdity to justify his schools existence in a university. Tomiki envisioned a more comprehensive LIGHT randori system similar to Judo without the overly competitive aspects reliant on muscles and bullying Uke.

[@paulfrost8952]

Old school judo before IJF altered the rules!🥋

[@rattytattyratnett]

The technique you described as morote gari was shomenate. It is atemi waza not attacking the leg.

[@chaosdromanah8620]

In pro wrestling they call that move Fujiwara Armbar

[@コッキーマン-p4p]

I hope fake aikido will be driven out of the world. For that purpose, Tomiki Aikido competition will be of great help.

[@tw_trad]

Would the step-over armbar (attacking the near arm that you are overhooking) from (kuzure) kesa gatame be considered waki gatame or juji gatame? Maybe both since you're also perpendicular?

[@gengotaku]

Thanks for the video , Chad. When I got back to aikikai aikido after 28 years about 2 years ago I considered taking Tomiki Aikido in the main dojo in Osaka, but since it's too far from where I move I decided to stick with aikikai and get back to judo, which is what I'm doing and hopefully will get my black belt in judo and aikido this year. What I don't like about Tomiki aikido is because they abandoned the ¨nagare ¨ and ¨tai no tenkan¨ present in aikikai and techniques will ultimately depend on the performer´s strength rather than using the momentum as it is in aikikai. Also, the knife part is laughable and doesn't resemble AT ALL a real knife attack.

[@spacebunny1661]

A knife was added into competition to further remove Tomiki Aikido from modern Judo. It is not meant to resemble a real knife attack it is used for scoring points.

[@nobodyshere5994]

I'd like to see your view of "Aiki no jutsu" working with the ki

[@drako8502]

"Judo abaixo da média " falou tudo

[@fredazcarate4818]

Chadi please explain what I believe to be a slight contradiction. Is Shodokan or is Tomiki Aikido? I await your answer.

[@Chadi]

It’s the same

[@fredazcarate4818]

@@Chadi Thank you Chadi for your prompt response!

[@killersalmon4359]

Tomiki was the name of the founder. He called his style "Shodokan".

[@fredazcarate4818]

@@killersalmon4359 I believe Chadi answered my question promptly. But I appreciate the reinforcement!

[@rustyshackleford735]

Boost

[@ThibautKurt23]

Is waki gatame hiji kime osae ?

[@shinshoryu]

Yes. The judo version.

[@uvw456]

Шотокан - не лучший вариант для боевого каратэ. Из слабых мест этой системы - огромный набор ката, низкие несуразные стойки, бесконтактные тренировочные и соревновательные поединки.

[@Fanaro]

If stabbing does no damage to your opponent, then what's the point simulation-wise?

[@britishaikidoassociation]

This is not about stabbing, the tanto being used is included for sport purpose, every clean strike at a safe distance equals a point, each person gets 1.30 with tanto and to throw, this is not about consistently stabbing and using technique, there is purpose with the tanto to use as a point based sporting system

[@chaos_omega]

Stabbing does earn points, they just have a very specific criteria (I believe it has to be performed with a forward step.) It's more about having a committed attack to counter than a realistic knife attack (if you ask me.) I definitely have my criticisms of Tomiki-ryu and Shodokan, but they are by far the best aikido I've seen. Hatenkai is a close second, but they still have some of the hang-ups of the old aikido "cult." Also, they are not as widespread as Tomiki/Shodokan.

[@SouthWest-jj8yu]

Very unrealistic if that is to represent a knife it ignores the fact the opponent is being cut stabbed etc. Keins Aikido does a very good piece on the most likely use of Aikido going on the principle that you are not defending against an armed/unarmed opponent per se in fact you are armed and using the aikido to make space to allow you to draw and use your weapon against them.

[@kevinjoseph2650]

Go for daito ryu aikijujitsu aikido lost its way this tomiki aikido is a sport and the others are rubbish too

[@justinwallace269]

Agreed. I give them credit for competing and sparring, but I'm not a fan of their technique at all. They seemed to have ditched all the best parts of Aikido in favor of a poor man's Judo. Normally, Aikidoka constantly change angles in a circle around the target, confusing them and manipulating their bodies with pain compliance and reversals. This looks crude and only moderately effective. As if the guy who made it was an Aikido dropout who never understood it. Relying on a gi for throws is a bad habit when training for self-defense.

[@britishaikidoassociation]

You are mistaking what you are viewing, these video clips are for competition and sport not for real life application, if sport aikido was being used in real life the application for each technique would be different

[@britishaikidoassociation]

There are similarities between Tomiki Aikido and Judo because Kenji Tomiki who invented the sport was a Judoka and then felt aikido was missing the sport element that was around in judo, he was taught by Jigoro Kano and Ueshiba, this is not a poor man’s judo it’s competitive aikido

[@justinwallace269]

@bradleeclarkson2213 I'd have to see more to know, but I was stating my opinion of what I'm seeing here. I love the concept, but I'm just not liking what I'm seeing here. It's not horrible, but it's not great either 😕

[@nappyheaded]

As a tomiki practioner I can honestly say the other styles of aikido wouldn't last against me in a fight. They don't spar or compete so they have no idea how to actually fight someone using aikido. You're looking at the video wrong because ii's illegal to grab the gi during competition.

[@iatsd]

@@nappyheaded And yet the TMRP chose Yoshinkan Aikido - a school within the aikikai umbrella - for their training, not Tomiki Aikido. Other styles don't compete, but some of them certainly do spar: randori covers a very wide range of practices across those 10,000+ dojo out in the world.

[@shinshoryu]

Hi. I don’t fully understand the point you’re trying to make with this video, that Tomiki aikido has techniques similar to judo? Cheers.