Boneshatter: Slayer or Jugg? (SSF player's perspective) (PoE 3.21)

I played jugg boneshatter to 97 and slayer boneshatter to 95 in Crucible SSF, killed some ubers with both of them, and thought I'd make a comparison video for the two builds.
my jugg pob: pastebin.com/mfUFY1Lu
my slayer pob: pastebin.com/akVVTLES
NOTE i finally found my actual jugg POB from 3.21 (sans crucible tree). Sorry I couldn't find it in time to make this video (my folders are a mess). Here you go: pastebin.com/nrjxQG4b
0:00 Intro
2:54 Part 1: Damage
7:55 Part 2: Trauma Sustain
13:43 Part 3: Defenses/EHP
26:34 Part 4: Endgame bossing/uber viability
27:45 Part 5: Mapping
30:02 Part 6: Leveling
34:47 Luna's Verdict
36:32 Smokie's Verdict
Strim
/ smokie_777
P.S. (Why the heck did I make this video? 😂 3.22 patch notes are dropping tomorrow, so this video will probably be useless in approximately 12 hours 😭. But hey I always wanted to do a video like this, so here goes I guess.)

[@makar_halaman]

Slayer has higher phys max hit couse of suppression, remove suppress nodes and his max hit stats drop by 1/3 . Keeping them is incorrectly because not all physical hits are spells, opposite most of physical hits are not spells

[@dali1384]

that doesnt help with trauma stacking. i can tell you, that nothing killed me more often than my own trauma stacks - i did deep delve... not some weak mapping. jugg is the only option, except maybe chieftain, that i would consider for BS.

[@psyeseease2649]

Thank for making this analysis! I like the format of this video - it works very well.

[@louiskusters9452]

Just wanted to leave a comment to say that I really like your videos. You explain everything in a really clear and detailled way, in a very chill and easygoing manner. Very nice to listen to and learn SSF. You got my sub.

[@mertaltan5388]

Great comparisons, great infos and the perfect video. Thank you.

[@MegamanLegendz89]

I appreciate the time and effort you put into this Smokie! Been looking for something like this for quite a while so I can finally feel comfortable in HCSSF. Thanks :D

[@BartoszBielecki]

Slayer! Thanks for your work. I am currently also doing slayer practice.

[@jacksonmatar9682]

Thank you, this was the exactly what I was looking for! The best most comprehensive and concise comparison around. I'll be going slayer now personally, Carn will be happy! 🤣 Thank you for your work, got a sub!

[@Qwikipedia]

Awesome video! I love that you call yourself an average player but are definitely in the top 1% of players xD

[@smokie_777]

🤔

[@user-hy1lz4qq1v]

Hi! I found your awesome Atlas-SSF video and were inspired to try SSF for first time last league(Cru). I've started with boneshatter Jugg and it was easy way to T15 maps, but after that I just hit a wall. I'm definitly going to try Slayer this time )

[@louiskusters9452]

I hit a wall as well recently around red maps. I need to upgrade some gear (specifically get more chaos res, because I keep dying to chaos dmg). But I have almost zero currency to invest. I guess I just need to do yellow maps for a while and get currency through expedition.

[@smokie_777]

Hey, glad to hear I inspired you to try ssf ^^ Lemme know if I can help in any way to get u over that wall, I think I know what you’re talking about, I always hit a wall between 5link and 6link where there’s not much to do but grind fusings and expedition/essence and prayge, hah. Not sure if that sounds similar to what you are running into as well.

[@user-hy1lz4qq1v]

@@smokie_777 No, I was pretty lucky with 6-l on my weapon, spending like 200 fus to link it(with 30%qual). I was constantly dying on bosses(cortex, Exarch etc) and some rares(mods like "Hits Overwhelm Physical Damage Reduction" are insanely annoying if you didn't spot it fast and treat like regular rare mob). And I have 5500+ unreserved hp, 80k armor, even 60+ chaos res. Feels like I can handle almost any hit, but still dead to 2-3 hits in a quick succession. Part of that is def my fault as player - I lack experience with bosses and mechanics, and still don't have good enough gear to kill them fast. So I'm looking toward next league and my revenge! )

[@user-hy1lz4qq1v]

@@louiskusters9452 as I did: try to get base on T15 map with high ilvl, then quick farm T1-T5 maps for ess/jun(skip most mobs, just check map for these, then run to boss), then craft base with ess - prob get pretty OK gear for T15 as well as progress/unveils for syndicate.

[@louiskusters9452]

@@user-hy1lz4qq1v yeh I did the same in the meantime. Crafted myself a 550dps weapon ilvl 83! Also got a lucky expedition encounter that dropped a bunch of 6 linked gear lol. Got a 2k armour 6 link chest now. Lifes good

[@L1St3n3R]

Actually very interesting talk, thanks!!

[@Yeastnt]

A big thing I like to to with slayer is once you can get alt quality boneshatter for speed run the Conqueror forbidden flame combo for an additional 10% less damage taken and 20% less from enemies. It helps a lot when juicing past 3 deli orbs.

[@bd9045]

Hope to catch your streams soon. Best voice in poe! Go slayer btw…

[@smokie_777]

Hehe, hope to see u in the streams some day! ^^

[@CC-xb4rn]

love the smokie voice you have !

[@smokie_777]

💖🎙✨

[@asapBreeZy]

With slayer, you can use grace and a jade flask with inc evasion and get your Armour much higher.

[@dali1384]

running a depth 1800 delve boneshatter build. yes you want to convert phys to elemental, preferrably fire because fire can be further mitigated with arctic armour. at some armour level it might also help to split phys to other elements... since armour will be applied on each element individually, making it vastly more efficient with reducing the smaller damage. it might make sense to keep some tiny fracture of physical damage taken for the regen. but it has to be so small, that it gets crushed by armour. i have 300-400 trauma stacks going. @300 stacks i do 82800 - 82,8k phys damage before mitigation per hit, which occurs 30x per second. i recieve 704 total dmg on my life pool per hit after mitigation. 124 of it is physical, 471 fire, 22 cold & 87 lightning 200k armour is being used and 86% phys to elemental mitigation, fortify, arctic armour, 90% res cap, mageblood with ruby, sapphire & topaz flask,... 275k phys max hit, 214-274k elemental max hit, 32,4k chaos max hit

[@smokie_777]

hmm, very interesting! i never thought about this, to split the phys damage from trauma into different types of ele, and also keep a small amount of phys to proc jugg regen without overwhelming armor - this makes sense! i never had problems with trauma mitigation in mapping going up to 45 stacks, but yes if you want to scale past that, what you said makes sense. thanks for sharing, i learned something

[@dali1384]

@smokie_777 you are welcome! i found that out when i wanted to change my helmet. i bought a fractured 10% phys to fire delve armour base and paid lab runner just to find out on my pob, that it would actually decrease my phys max hit... from that moment i realized, that if you stack enough armour, you actually dont want to convert 100% phys taken to elemental. at first i didnt understand why, the idea came up later. i dont know the "perfect" distribution though, that needs more testing. it also makes sense to spread ele-dmg recieved to other elements to increase armour effect. doesnt matter if it is the juggernaut ascendancy passive or transcendence. the only item that does that is the dawnbreaker, from what i know. there is some other item that shifts 50% ele dmg to chaos res, bypassing ES. didnt seem great to me. maybe this helps you a bit: pobb.in/_CnVLHCg7_mp you can also find me on poeninja: "Slachtica" when looking for delve depth

[@vodanh2879]

Be carn - be slayer :))

[@ExiledVessel]

Removal of crucible tree's is good thought process. As for defenses slayer is definitely nowhere near as tanky as jugg. In the config underneath the boss you've defaulted to projectile spell so it's factoring your defenses against a projectile spell dealing physical and all elemental of the same value with a base crit chance of 5%. I am not trying to criticize but merely provide information that I have learned. This is the biggest problem for understanding defenses in path of exile as it's not a direct 1:1 correlation when you insert it into path of building. Jugg is way tankier that 8% of armor applying to elemental is insane and jugg can reduce chaos damage as well. Slayer will have way lower max hits the only acceptation being spells. It's also important for things like shaper fight to have more than 40% resistances above your max res as he penetrates 40% cold damage for his shaper balls (25% for non uber) and you will eventually get crit by them which has killed characters of mine. Looking at it now your fight with uber shaper on slayer would have gone a bit smother with 115% max res. It's really good to get in the habit of having minimum 40-50% higher res for curses, scorch, penetration, etc. Your jugg only has +35 over if he has endurances so that may be why he fell over against shaper balls. Deals 5984 to 8976 Cold Damage (non crit). No molten shell/endurance and he'd fall over, makes sense to me when I assume how it works is res before armor application against the elemental hit. Max res probably scales really well that way with jugg. looking forward to the luna patch note stream :^) Edit: I'd be curious the difference of uber pinnacle shaper ball, the slayer dropped down to 24k hit and jugg was 15k hit against normal shaper.

[@smokie_777]

Yes true the max hit values in pob can be misleading, on the default settings I forgot 100% supp also counts towards phys max hit. Also to see the impact of armor/unbreakable you’d have to change the size of the hits to be sure how much damage reduction you’re actually getting. Against phys or small ele hits jugg is very tanky but against big hits, jugg is less tanky. Against really big hits like shaper ball jugg without supp has barely any protection at all, whereas slayer has supp + 10%less taken from ascendancy. Also one thing to note is that overcapped res actually doesn’t do anything vs pen- pen is calculated against max res. In fact against pen, scaling max res is not optimal, as the greater the pen, the less benefit max res gives. For example against a 100dmg hit, with 75 res 0 pen, getting +1 max res will give 4%less damage taken (25/24) but with 75 res 40 pen, getting +1 max res will only give 1.5%less damage taken (65/64). But you are right that overcapped res is good for curses and exposure and such.

[@Gobblesthepatient]

Great video, I learned a lot as a noob I think jugg actually wants an evasion/armour chest tho, no? More armour than a full armour chest with the ascendancy and the keystone that converts your evasion to armour. I wonder if that would change your evaluation of whether it’s worth it to go suppression on a jugg

[@smokie_777]

Nooo that’s not how it works lol, jugg doubles armor only on chest, iron reflexes is calculated after base armor (I know it can be confusing for new players)

[@Gobblesthepatient]

@@smokie_777 I think that ggg stealth buffed unbreakable last league(according to goratha). kzbin.infoQrDZeHTypCc got about 40k armour extra when i equipped my armor/evasion rog chest

[@Gobblesthepatient]

I guess it converts the evasion to armour first now, then doubles it?

[@smokie_777]

@@Gobblesthepatient oh, didnt see the patch mid-last league, yeah i guess unbreakable does work with iron reflexes now. yeah then armor/evasion base would be best, i guess. seems like a really weird and unintuitive change i still wouldn't go suppression on a jugg though

[@ZeriocTheTank]

Everyone that I talked to keeps telling me to go Slayer, but I highly doubt I'll reach the point where Slayer completely eclipses Juggernaut. Also I like Jugg more thematically. I like being a tank by default.

[@sousukeaizen1299]

slayer seem better for 3.23 right?

[@kev23dk]

Please make a ssf crafting guide for melee characters. Im also playing jugg bone shatter new to poe only been playing for 2 weeks its sooooo overwhelming hahaha😂

[@smokie_777]

Hmmmmmmmm A few people have asked for this now, I may look into it…

[@mrw0lf364]

I agree, It would be super great and useful. Im leaguestarting bs slayer based on your videos. I left the cult of Pohx for you, better be worth it! Hahah

[@user-pc3mq7jn6f]

Yes, please do that! Pohx had a guide on each gear piece and that really helped me play RF this league. Would be great if you could do that for Boneshatter Jugg!

[@kev23dk]

@@smokie_777 pleaseee!!! Im level 92 ssf boneshatter jugg and I’m stuck only been playing poe for not that long. I don’t know how to progress further. I can clear rare t16 maps but once I corrupt them i get wrecked. Especially the map bosses. I don’t know at end game whether I should keep farming all the lower end maps to try to get gear and more unveiled. And once i have these gears at a good item level. I don’t know how to craft them to end game bosses level. Only have the normal armour/life/resis but special mods like -to mana/monsters take extra phy/ stuff like that I’m just like how the f are people crafting them. Also the end game weapon at 750dps plus.. its so hard to get it. And once i get it how do i 6link it? Per day im getting like 20-40 orbs of fusings dont have time to play that much

[@masterjediskywalker7419]

26:23 Immediately goes to check twitch vods, lol

[@smokie_777]

>;-(

[@SPEAR547]

I gotta try boner slayer cuz i play too much rf jugg. Great vid btw thanks!

[@bellpuggoyle3273]

Umm, your PoB is different than what I see on your video :c EHP is diff, items are too :( I wanted pure character from game, not self-made items in PoB...

[@spellmangaming5362]

Hi Luna WidePeepoHappy

[@smokie_777]

Luna says: "Hi there, @spellmangaming5362! Thanks for dropping by. Hope you're ready to witness some demon-level entertainment. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the chaos! 🖤"