ASOIAF is my personality now (A Clash of Kings review)

[@matthewdeancole]

The third book, A Storm of Swords, is regarded by many as one of the best fantasy novels ever.

[@Bookborn]

I've heard that from sooo many people. About 150 pages in and it's already🔥

[@williameleno]

​@@agustinferri7299Has she even seen the show? I genuinely don't know.

[@svenningen]

Is this your first time through ASoIaF? @@Bookborn

[@aminaa5824]

@@svenningenshe said in her game of thrones review that it is her first time :)

[@svenningen]

@@aminaa5824 i must've missed it, thanks! I remember being totally engrossed on my first round as well! Such a good read

[@QuinnTheGM]

Always wonderful to hear a new reader's perspective! You're in for quite a ride with the next few books.

[@Cbutton]

Hey it’s quinn!

[@ciandryl]

OMG QUINN

[@Mic-Mak]

Love your videos!

[@FixyHartmann761]

lol quinn what are you doing here :D

[@mymaynee5963]

ariana what are u doing here

[@TheJordanK]

“…shocking but not shock factor.” 7:20 This is exactly what the show runners did not understand and what makes George so good. Great observation.

[@DongusMcBongus]

They understood it in the early seasons. Some of the best scenes in season 1 are only in the show. (There are still some stinkers for sure, like Baelish’s infamous brothel scene) Tywin’s introduction, Cersei and Robert talking about their marriage, Robert, Barristan and Jaime talking about killing. Ned saying “Baelor!” to make his last action saving Arya. However, as soon as the books ran out they resorted to mostly cheap shock factor and genital jokes for runtime. But I WILL give them credit for genuinely great additions in the early series.

[@dominiquewong4706]

i totally agree that this is the biggest challenge for the show after the book finished.

[@Ashbrash1998]

​@@DongusMcBongusI wouldnt even say it was just they ran out of books, they alsu purposely akipped whole chunks with no plans on how to fill in the gaps later on

[@rams3955]

​@kingdancekiller they understood it in the early seasons because they were working under George's framework lol. D&D aren't total hacks they did have some genuinely good original material but even that I question how much was George involved with. He had a heavy hand in every early season so honestly who's to say stuff like Arya and tywin wasn't his idea.

[@miguelbranquinho7235]

It's not shocking, it's tragic.

[@coqui9879]

New member of the Catelyn Defense Squad!! We’re happy to have you ⚔️ She’s one of the most realistic and complex characters I’ve ever read about. Not female characters, not fantasy characters, just one of the best characters period!

[@Mohler41]

But she is the reason the starks lost

[@yellowcake3468]

​@@Mohler41 it was hers neds robbs and sansas fault

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@Mohler41 That doesn't mean that she's not an interesting, well written character. I think Cersei's one of the most interesting characters in the series even though she's an absolutely terrible person. Blaming a fictional character and disliking them for events in a book's plot that they were written into is rather immature imho.

[@avipretekin5048]

​@@Mohler41holy shit dude please delete this. Major spoiler

[@evilzilla4053]

@@Mohler41 no Robb was warned n by his mother repeatedly from what I remember

[@iceclimbers22]

I think the biggest problem GRRM has caused himself by never finishing the books to this point is to make readers inadvertently forget how insanely good this series was/is because we're so put off by his lack of output. In reality, ASOIAF stills stands head and shoulders above just about every modern fantasy series out there.

[@Bookborn]

Yep, I def think this is true! The conversation has become so focused on him not finishing that it's hard to remember why everyone cared so much in the first place lol (That's just as an outsider, based on what I heard about the series before starting)

[@iceclimbers22]

I think you're dead on in that assessment@@Bookborn

[@Chu9947]

It does make me sad man. I am rooting for you George.

[@Ashbrash1998]

In a wierd way I orefer they at least stay good like I remmeber them than have something put out that is terrible like with what happend with Dune. Though it had a whole different author in the latter half but it really ruined the series

[@Zikkar]

I don’t think he will ever finish the books before he dies.

[@ElderVault]

I am praying you don’t get spoiled on anything too major. A genuine fresh reaction to asoiaf in 2023 is like finding a unicorn

[@catalinacaro8183]

Honestly these books are so good that even with spoilers they are good, a good story is meant to be told a thousand times, not just one

[@lanestapp2]

But there's a whole island of unicorns on skagos.

[@curtis25920]

Bookborn reading ASOIAF is the booktube event of the year imo

[@Bookborn]

😅

[@lkay398]

Curtis commenting on a Bookborn video is the crossover of my life

[@curtis25920]

@@lkay398 Lkay commenting on my comment made this a good day

[@WhiteWizard42]

"I'm so concerned for Robb" - I love hearing this in 2023, and seeing the ASoS thumbnail right below it.

[@Bookborn]

My concern was very founded 😭😭😭

[@keith-c]

Glad you loved Clash! A suggestion: I recommend reading "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" in between "A Storm of Swords" and "A Feast For Crows". It is a collection of three short stories in the ASOIAF universe that were released alongside the main series and were meant to be breezier reads that are lighter in tone. Reading it is not required to understand what happens in the main series, but Feast and Dance reference characters, concepts, and imagery from the stories in small and big ways. I found the connections rewarding to discover and they enriched GRRM's excellent worldbuilding even further. Plus, its a fun read!

[@BenJack]

I second this. It’s also being adapted into the next HBO spin-off that is scheduled to start filming early next year.

[@timangelis8999]

I totally agree! You should definitely read these three short stories, ideally before AFFC because.....reasons ( potential future spoilers I want to avoid )

[@SuperPaul420]

Dunk and egg stories are very interesting but not nearly as long.

[@Bookborn]

You said "short stories" and I said OK BUYING NOW

[@drewdubose2941]

I love Dunk and Egg because its written on such a small geographic scale \with rich detail and characters. Just another example of Martin's genius as an author.

[@autje1970]

If you like the prose now, wait until you get to A Feast for Crows. You will meet a septon who will have a monologue that is probably the most beautiful thing I've ever read (and I think a lot of people in the fandom agree this is the pinnacle of Martin's prose).

[@Flammewar]

The Broken Man monologue is so good.

[@Bookborn]

Oooh looking forward to it 👀

[@troyb5843]

The broken man monologue is the thesis statement for ASOIAF. I get why some people aren’t a fan of AFFC, but imo it’s got some of the best writing in the whole series and in some ways represent the emotional heart of the story

[@anamakesthings]

Omg yes.... AFFC is my favourite book in the series, precisely because of how insightful Martin is about the human condition. I love it so much!

[@jmarsinelli6149]

AFFC was so much better on the reread IMHO my 2nd favorite book of the series

[@readbykyle3082]

This was excellent and I can't wait for a 50 minute storm of swords one

[@Bookborn]

No comment on my Catelyn section? You don't want to publicly state how fed up you are with me DMing you daily about Catelyn supremacy?

[@readbykyle3082]

@@Bookborn Catelyn is a complex character with good and bad in her, like everyone else. I merely don't fall for her shtick just because she's a MOM, Bookborn

[@Chu9947]

​@@readbykyle3082thanks kyle for gettting bookborn to read asoiaf

[@Johanna_reads]

Cheers to what you said about Catelyn! This series is important to me because it was the first adult fantasy I read that had complex, believable, and fascinating female characters. Not just one but several! If I did a favorite fantasy characters video, ASOIAF would probably dominate that list. Loved hearing your first-time thoughts on A Clash of Kings! ☄️

[@Bookborn]

YES!! I now see why so many people were sad I hadn't read ASOIAF when I did my favorite female characters video. There are SO many good ones in here already

[@monolith94]

Dianna wynne Jones does a good job of making great female characters for fantasy

[@鲨-j1s]

Her only redeeming quality is loving her children by blood.

[@modelnanpresident]

It is so great seeing new people discover these books!

[@deadcaptainjames6045]

If I had it to do all over again I would never read the series. I've been reading the series since 2003 and knowing that we are never getting resolution with the series is more painful than never reading it IMHO

[@modelnanpresident]

@@deadcaptainjames6045 it makes me really sad too, but i think it's still totally worth reading. Although I only started the books a couple of years ago, so i feel for you. 2003? Damn

[@Bookborn]

I know there aren't many losers like me left who have never gotten into it, but it's so fun discovering a new series that's so incredible for the first time again. It's been a while since I felt this way!

[@TayNez63]

I’m honestly interested in reading it. But I’m also scared of it never being finished. But as of now, I haven’t read any of it.

[@TheJordanK]

@@deadcaptainjames6045we know how it’s going to end. The endings from the show are from George. The main general endings. It will just arrive there differently. I’d bet money on this

[@Dantrag123]

I really love the poetic ending of this book, mayby the most memorable one for me in general (any other meditative literature like this?): "At the edge of the wolfswood, Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse of the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell’s chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I’m not dead either."

[@Bookborn]

Not me getting emotional reading that again 😭

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

I was taken by that but on my second read through and it’s really stuck with me, ever since.

[@ancatdal]

It brings tears to my eyes every time 😭 Not only is it so moving because Winterfell is HOME to so many of our POVs, it's also touching for the connection Bran feels to it as a newly disabled person. It's so well done.

[@jimjones5743]

😭😭😭

[@exothermic1942]

​@@ancatdal Plus, Winterfell is the first place we see in ASIOF after the prologue, it's like we're losing the anchor.

[@otavioguimaraes5798]

I think Catelyn perspective is important to the story not only due to the situations she gets herself in but also because of how unique is her role in the overall story. She was married to Ned and brought to an unfamiliar place she did not like not for love but because of the duty she had towards her familly, the Tullys, but with time she learned to love her husband and her childrens and was satisfied with her life in Winterfell. She is the one who is suffering the most from the ongoing war, like, her husband is dead, as well as two of her children (as far as she knows), her only two daughters are being captive in King's landing and the son she still has is often leading an army to battle and does not even seems to want her there at all. It is interesting to see how the love and grief for her shattered family leads her to do some very questionable decisions as well as the impact they will have on the later books.

[@Bookborn]

YES YES YES!!! You GET IT!

[@hkdarthcadeus1555]

She did NOT listen to Ned. She was told to go to the North prepare the cranogmen and moat Caitlin with 100 bowmen. She didn’t do her job. And fucked up every possible thing she could by being emotional and irrational. She failed Ned, and Robb because she couldn’t do what she was told. But it’s justified because she had REASON to be emotional. That’s the exact reason Ned sent her away.

[@berlineczka]

It looks like you already recognised the holy trinity of Martin's writing: dialogue, deaths, and unexpected plot twists that still make perfect sense in retrospect.

[@mrc-rrn]

he is also the master of forshadowing :)

[@divyeshkotthakota7035]

Tbh his plot twists are mostly deaths

[@Junior6288]

“Look, if there are one million Catelyn fans in the world, I am one of them. If there is one Catelyn fan in this world, it is me. If there are no Catelyn fan’s in this world, I am dead.” 😆 I LoL’d so hard at this. You nailed that joke! 💯

[@鲨-j1s]

If there are no stark house allies all you need is catelyn to destroy the protagonists

[@aaronl4935]

Catelyn does not hate jon as much as she fears him. She does not care that Ned had another child but is bothered that he is raising him as if he was a true born son. She does not fear that he will take Winterfell over Robb, but she does fear that the children he has will, because they will be true born and have a really good claim to Winterfell.

[@Bookborn]

Yes, I think the fear of Jon is such a good element to bring into her character. It's complicated!!

[@sophiawilson8696]

Ned could make legal Stark.

[@aaronl4935]

@@sophiawilson8696 no, I believe only a king can legitmise a bastard. Ned was technically hand of a king for a time, so maybe then he would be able to.

[@TheObsedianEmperor]

No she hates him for simply being mothered by anothe woman. Fear is a factor but it’s mostly due to him living amongst her true born children and he also looks the most like Ned outside of Arya which plays a factor as well.

[@ktymouse]

One of Caitlyn's problems with Jon is that Jon looks like a Stark, while most of her children don't. Robb, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon are all redheads with Tully blue eyes. One look at Jon's dark hair and gray eyes tells everyone who his father is.

[@bendricdayne2850]

I actually really enjoyed reading Catelyn’s chapters! Partially because I really love Robb and everything to do with the King in the North stuff and we only see that through Catelyn, but she’s also written really well. Was surprised you didn’t talk about one of my absolute favorite chapters in the whole series (which is a Catelyn chapter) where Catelyn gets Jaime drunk in his cell and they have some of the best dialogue!

[@Bookborn]

Oh man it's so hard to talk about everything but that chapter was SO GOOD. Also filled with tension. It was also exciting for me because I know so many people just love Jaime and basically I've gotten nothing of him yet. So I really enjoyed getting to understand him slightly better.

[@pjlights164]

Gave me chills all over again describing some of those scenes/moments/characters. I want books 6 and 7 as much as anyone else but I do not regret reading this series in 2022-2023 at all. This video was EPIC! #TeamCatelyn

[@Bookborn]

YES, no regrets! Although my friend did joke to me that she'll be so angry if I read the books this late and then suddenly George decides to publish next year or something and I didn't have to wait at all 🤣

[@ccorvid]

​@@BookbornI'd say I'm with your friend on that one, but tbh I'd have to be an insane person to have any reason to complain that the wait was finally over for any of us, new or old fans

[@a.a677]

Don't worry, the Sophie Turner divorce and the 'spoiler headlines' have nothing to do with the books, because the show went past the books and basically wrote fan fiction for multiple seasons. Also, I agree with EVERYTHING with what you said about Catelyn. She's my favourite POV, it's so interesting and essential and she does not deserve the hate she gets.

[@Bookborn]

OH GOOD! lol I was like nooooo is this telling me that my worries about Robb being dead are already coming true ☠

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@Bookborn Yeah, from about S5 on, they absolutely butchered GRRM's story for the sake of making a flashy, shocking TV show. That's also when a lot of fans of the books (like me!) gave up on the show and just stopped watching. They ruined so many great plotlines and characters that it's disgusting. And Team Catelyn all the way!

[@oliviawilliams6204]

@@thing_under_the_stairsyeah through for me the show really died towards the end of season 4, to avoid spoilers, will just say in the Black cell with a certain revelation being omitted

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@oliviawilliams6204 We could even say mid-season 4, when one character was swapped for another that the showrunners made up entirely for... reasons?

[@greywolf7577]

While I had some problems with the later seasons of Game of Thrones, I do think that if they had stretched out the story over a few more seasons, then they could have told a better story. A lot of the problems with the later seasons was trying to do too much in too little time. @@thing_under_the_stairs

[@adamrivers3250]

Me all the way through your Catelyn rant: “Yas! Preach!” Catelyn is a brilliant character and I don’t understand the hate she gets. You’re not going to hear any push back from me because we share quite a lot of opinions (aka, the correct opinions). Hilarious that you couldn’t wait to start the next book.

[@Bookborn]

THANK YOU! I'm just so surprised that people can extend so much sympathy to our other flawed characters but can't seem to feel the same about Catelyn (or Sansa, but that's another conversation entirely haha)

[@leonardostefanucci4106]

She's hated because she did a lot of useless bullshit and retroactive damage to her side. 1 captured Tyrion 2 told Ned to trust Littlefinger 3 made a shitty deal with Walder Frey that would end up biting them. 4 gave Jaime to the Lannisters in exchange for her daughters even though she should'nt trust them.

[@kilgore1863]

I don't think shes hated as a character, but as a person. Shes written really well, no one could deny that.

[@Mic-Mak]

18:06 I love Bran's chapters. I don't know, there's a small segment of the fandom that find them boring. I find them so captivating! One thing I love about all the Stark POVs is that we get to see how much they think and care about each other. One of my favorite moments from the first book is when Bran catches Robb crying because he fears for their father. Also, Robb tries to comfort Bran when they get the bad news and holds his hand. It was so moving. And so many times, all the younger siblings when they are alone and in danger think to themselves, _I need to be strong like Robb._ I love that! I wish the show had captured that.

[@veszeljko7645]

“No one is finally dead until the ripples they cause in the world die away, until the clock wound up winds down, until the wine she made has finished its ferment, until the crop they planted is harvested. The span of someone’s life is only the core of their actual existence.” - Sir Terry Pratchett This is how I feel about Ned as well, and Liene was on point with that one !

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

GNU Sir Terry.

[@VoltaDoMar]

It's great to hear this, because what I mostly hear today is backlash, due to the show, or due to him not finishing the series- But it's good to hear someone go back to the books and say, these books are actually very good. I think that gets lost in the conversation sometimes

[@Bookborn]

It definitely has, just as someone who has been an "outsider" for so long. Whenever I heard about the series, it was always in the same breath as either "they'll never be finished" or "the last seasons were terrible". I think we've lost sight of why they were so popular in the first place - because they are incredible!

[@VoltaDoMar]

@@Bookborn 100%!

[@VoltaDoMar]

@@Bookborn 100%!

[@Chu9947]

​@@Bookbornabsolutely.

[@schizoidahole]

As long as you and I are alive, there will be at least 2 Catelyn fans. Everything you said is 100% on point, Catelyn is actually my favorite POV of the whole story, her chapters are so beautifully written, even more than the average ASOIAF chapter, and her conflicts and flaws always keep me enthralled. We are in complete agreement, and I go even further because to me she’s one of the greatest characters of all time.

[@Bookborn]

I'd be shocked if she doesn't stay in my top female characters of all time. I get there are lots of books left so I don't want to say anything to quick, but as of now, she's just...SO WELL WRITTEN AND COMPLEX

[@schizoidahole]

@@Bookborn RIDICULOUSLY WELL WRITTEN AND COMPLEX….. And also so sarcastic and hilarious. I was also taken aback when I first learned how much the fandom hates her, because I personally love everything about her and her chapters.

[@siljapeters2836]

Make it three🫡 Catelyn is SUCH a realistic charachter, and the facts that so much of the fandom seems to hate her more than people such as Tywin goddamn Lannister? Infuriates me. I love her

[@sathira_anuk5179]

​​@@siljapeters2836Tywin is a wayy better character anyway

[@siljapeters2836]

@@sathira_anuk5179 thats up for debate but I think its pretty objectively clear that Tywin is a worse PERSON than her

[@kristensadana8097]

We are conditioned to be unforgiving of imperfect female characters but will laud characters like Tony Soprano/Walter White. I love Catelyn and I love Sansa.

[@Bookborn]

And that’s 👏🏻 the 👏🏻 tea 👏🏻

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

I think that's mostly misogyny in action. The fanboys want their antiheroes to be allowed to do whatever they want with zero consequences, and expect all the female characters to meekly stand by their man, even when it's putting them and their families in danger. But if a fictional woman makes the slightest mistake, or in the case of Sansa acts like a *real* sheltered teenage girl, they crucify her. But in GRRM's world, actions have consequences, and both worried mothers and naive teen girls are deserving of respect and compassion. And sometimes they're smarter than the men around them, too!

[@monolith94]

Most guys I know don’t see Walter white as a laudable figure. At the beginning he starts off as relatable to a degree but you see him “break bad” so to speak

[@warallied]

@@thing_under_the_stairs you lost me at misogyny and even further at "they're smarter than the men around them" Its not even a trope "fanboys" believes on the opposite scale. Imagine if a fanboy said that about his male favorite. Female Anti heroes are plenty that has not only the respect of their fan but absolute recongnition of their importance and the challenge they had to face. Few to name on top of my mind: Galadriel, Eowyn, Sarah Connor, Cat Woman, Olenna Tyrell. Females with personal flaws, flawed motives but truly inspiring, ground shaking in their approach and execution. People have problem with bad writing and there is plenty to go around. While there *IS* a certain bias when it comes to expectations of character, this is a biased and great misunderstanding on your part to simply make a judgement by association of what it means. Sheltered naive teenage girl are annoying and GRRM made it so purposely because it serves his story. Joffrey was overall hatred as hell for similar reasons on top of his viciousness BUT it was throwing several lessons with it to the audience on top of flashes of brilliance for his character. Tommen as king was SOOOO PAINFUL and annoying for the same reason as Sansa which made us miss Joffrey. That was also intended. Sansa's story point is showing that shes a remarkable survivalist that can adapt on a whim despite the most horrible of events. As Tyrion said: You may survive us yet. Joffrey's point was to show that we can desire the worst of fate for a 8 years old sociopath that was just overly sheltered with bad parents with no understanding or knowledge of kindness and purpose. He had good ideas few times: The crown should have its own army instead of rellying on houses and their politics, they should handle Deanarys now before her Dragons becomes a problem. We were all missing him when the religious radicals took over even if they were populists. Tommen's point was similar to Sansa on the difference of never adapting and being very soft and sensitive. Made the famous debate: are elitist nobles better than radical religious populists? Why are we in love with noble medieval houses that starves and profit from their peasants that they have disdain for? Hence why we missed Joffrey that we wanted dead prior who was just an 8 year old. Its not about misogyny and even if your case was true - thats not what it means.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@warallied Well, you lost me as soon as you dismissed the use of the term 'misogyny', so I guess that's even.

[@chand911]

So glad you are enjoying these. A Storm of Swords held the title of "Last book I threw across a room" for a long time before I finally read The Way of Kings. Love when books illicit uncontrollable emotion.

[@fernandogutierrezcantoral5613]

I honestly love Theon he is so complex and returning to pyke just reignited his identity crisis. The final chapter is amazing, all the mistakes he made through the book is coming towards him, being left behind from the people he so hard tries to be part of, and when he finally have a window of oportunity to redeem himself, its too late.

[@YoungNarcissus]

I also started reading ASOIAF this year! I’m 100 pages away from finishing A Dance with Dragons. I agree that the fact that a story is unfinished/ends badly doesn’t meant you shouldn’t start the series to enjoy the highs and lows of the story along the way. A rollercoaster of emotions await, can’t wait to see your thoughts of each book!

[@Bookborn]

OOH! So has it been worth it to you to read them even though they are unfinished?

[@ccorvid]

as someone who just finished ANOTHER read thru of the series, I can absolutely say that it's worth reading it, even without Winds not being out yet. waiting for Winds will just give you time to go back and appreciate the whole thing even more the second or third time through. not to mention getting into all the theorizing about what'll happen next! we've been combing thru these books so much the last decade, I think we have a pretty decent notion of a few big plot points that'll happen in the next one. but even so, just waiting for Martin's newest Prose is so so worth it.

[@YoungNarcissus]

@@Bookborn 100% !!

[@BasalThor]

I absolutely love that you are enjoying this books so much ! You aren't alone with your Catelyn opinions , I fully agree with you ! She is one of my favourite characters in the series

[@Bookborn]

Seems that she tends to be very polarizing! At least I'm finding more of MY PEOPLE in the comments 🤣

[@exothermic1942]

I know im a bit late, but regarding the House of the Undying - people love this one so much because it foreshadows basically Every. Single. Plotpoint throughout the rest of the story. Half the ASIOF theory videos you watch mention this chapter because there's just so much involved, gotta love it

[@helenrose5383]

I think that Catelyn has the best chapters consistently.

[@a.a677]

yep I agree

[@Bookborn]

yes, exactly, you get it!

[@helenrose5383]

Her chapters doesn't hide her thought processes like Ned or Dany's, She has more experience and knowledge about Robert's Rebellion than the children pov and Tyrion. She also interacts with almost every other character.@@Bookborn

[@sathira_anuk5179]

Nah Tyrion

[@jinntaliswrites]

It’s so much fun hearing your fresh thoughts on this old and loved series! Wishing you a spoiler free ride all the way through.

[@Bookborn]

I've already been spoiled on (2) things... one isn't relevant (it's a late stage show spoiler that people assume was Martin's idea but hasn't materialized in any of the published books) and another one I'm hoping I misinterpreted 😬

[@Flammewar]

I'm so glad you're enjoying the journey :D I'm also a Catelyn and Sansa defender. I've rarely seen better female characters in media, and Catelyn might even be the best written mother I know. I think they are hated so much in the community because their flaws negatively affect other favorite characters. It's just so much more outrageous when a good guy does something bad to our favorites than a bad guy like Jamie. He's my absolute favorite character in all of media, but it's just easier to root for him when he does a good deed because he was introduced as a villain originally. In addition to the beautiful prose, I love the density of George's writing style. There are so many foreshadowings and little things that completely flew over my head. For example, that Renly is gay is pretty obvious, but I didn't notice it the first time I read it.

[@rabbithaze9707]

I have to say that one of the most brilliant and not discussed enough parts of this series for me has always been writing an epic story about a young heroic king from the perspective of his mother. *chefs kiss*

[@The_Left-Hand_Path]

Catelyn is one of my POV's in any fictional book ever. Such a complex, thoughtful character.

[@nicholashandfield-jones1837]

This series is amazing! It's like reading the books for the first time again. Catelyn is a prime example of a character that is derided because the fans don't LIKE what she does. But as a character, she is perfectly writing because everything she does is in character and well written

[@Bookborn]

Totally agree! Although I maybe am less critical of her decisions than I should be 🤣🤣🤣

[@emeraldmendez9208]

I loved Catlin as well! She was my favorite and it was sad

[@watcherofwatchers]

One of my favorite aspects to ASOIAF is that there are very few outright "evil" characters. Most characters are acting (mostly) rationally and in their own (or their houes') perceived self-interest. It makes everything, especially the conflicts, so much more relatable and interesting. It's why you can empathize with some truly horrible people sometimes. Lol.

[@Bookborn]

I def think there are characters that are more in the wrong than others (admittedly, this is from just 2 books, so my opinion on the matter may change) but I do LOVE a book where when you are in everyone's perspectives, you can understand why they think they are right. That's difficult to do and also shows why Martin is such a good writer

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@Bookborn Just wait until you get to some Cersei POV chapters!

[@kalamataolives]

Catelyn’s scene in the rural sept before meeting with Renly is some of the most beautiful prose in all of the novels imo. one of my favorite scenes from all five books.

[@Levacque]

Ok, the fact that you said, "Winterfell is a character," by book two is a foreshadowing of how well you would review these books. Winterfell is more of a character than most Freys.

[@aminaa5824]

11:03 he says in the first book, (his first chapter) that Jaime was the only member of his family who ever loved him and treated him kindly, and that he could forgive almost anything he does because of that, also, the thing about hiring a whore as his wife was a kindness in tyrions eyes, he thinks Jaime just wanted him to be happy and it was ruined once Tywin made him confess, so he’s not mad about it (which is crazy)

[@ciandryl]

you know this is a spoiler right? the tysha confession

[@aminaa5824]

@@ciandryl I said ‘once Tywin made him confess’ as in when he made Jaime confess that she was a whore and that it was all planned not the other confession, it might sound like a spoiler if you know the book but I’m just talking about all the info we got from tyrions story, anyway let me know when you read this so we can delete these comments cuz these really would be spoilers lol

[@katsucurry8357]

I am 1000% a fan of your correct Catelyn Stark takes. Catelyn is incredibly written. Not a word of any of her chapters passes where I am not hooked because of her emotional state and her complex emotions she feels about Jon, Jaime, Robb and so many others. Her conversation she had with Jaime in her final chapter is one I remember especially well. What a phenomenal character. I know you’re not watching the show, but I will say for the sake of it Michelle Fairley acts the SHIT out of Catelyn in the show. The quality of her acting is UNSUNG im so impressed by it.

[@liamnuge428]

The thing I loved about Catelyn in the first book was where you see how Tyrion sees her as opposed to how she talks in her own head. It tells me how oblivious a lot of the men are that they seem to think she's acting erratically because they can't pick up on the subtleties of her words and facial expressions and don't pay enough attention to her

[@praiha]

Martin's TV background probably helps a lot, the prologue was like a Twilight Zone or Outer Limits episode in a way. Length is just right, we get just as much information we need etc.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah, someone else was hypothesizing it's because he treats them like short stories!

[@elaineirving77]

Glad you are enjoying the series. Its great to see your enthusiasm. It’s been a good while since I read the original books but I’ve just started A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms which is also set in Westeros. Loving it so far.

[@BudravenOG]

Thick as castle wall

[@AffinityCola]

Absolutely can not wait to hear your reaction to A Storm of Swords, one of my favorites of all time

[@Bookborn]

It seems to be literally everyone's favorite so I'm sooo excited.

[@kruegertcg9830]

I love hearing your thoughts on this series! I could talk about it for hours, but most people are only into the show or just don’t get obsessed with characterization or prose to the same degree as I do, lol 😅 I’ll second that Martin doesn’t get enough credit for his writing chops. He moves seamlessly back and forth between description and dialogue in way that is pretty uniquely immersive. The entire series is very enjoyable in this regard, I'm looking forward to your reviews of the rest of them! Sansa and Catelyn also don’t get enough credit as interesting characters in their own right. Martin as always does a great job character nuance via incorporating their backstories into their internal monologues. For example, Cat often feels guilty for how she treated Jon, and Sansa still holds onto some romantic notions about knighthood and honor despite her trauma. I really wish there were more fantasy authors writing well rounded female characters like this, where their femininity is a big part of their identity, but they also have many unique experiences and traits that are specific to them. Abercrombie is probably close, but his books just don’t have the same diversity and variety of characters involved. Sanderson does a great job with representation, but I just don’t think he has the same talent as Martin in regards to character development (few do, haha)

[@Bookborn]

Ok but I agree with literally everything you've said vis a vis Abercrombie and Sanderson. They are two of my favorite authors, but Martin does seem to blend their two talents together in this book and that's what makes it so fantastic

[@rsmlinar1720]

Agreed. I know GRRM has kind of proven its not necessary for having really good female characters, but i wish we had more prominent adult fantasy authors that are women. Im a man, and even if i try i will never really know how it is to have femininity as major part of identity. And while for most things, we are similar enough, there are things like motherhood, things from bodily perspective and Romance that are simply somewhat different between the sexes.

[@mattwypijewski4192]

I’m right there with you. Reading the series for the first time and halfway through Storm of Swords. I can’t remember, have you not seen the show? I was worried how I viewed the characters would be tainted by the characterizations from the series but I’m finding I have my own unique versions of them in my head reading the books.

[@Bookborn]

No, I have never watched the show! And I never plan to lmao

[@Trepanation21]

17:03 as you mention loving Davos! In tune with your comments around about appreciating Catelyn, one of the things that isn't always overtly apparent is that Catelyn and Davos are basically two of the most mature and "wisened" characters in the story! They're almost like, the only two that aren't playing the game, or caught up in the game. They're able to look at it from the outside and make their observations and moves, and I think that lends very well to our appreciation and connection with them. They feel a little safer, among the chaos.

[@avah3643]

I know it seems hard to love Jaime at this point in time, every time I reread the series I think to myself, "wait maybe I don't like this guy as much as I remember..." and then I get to book 3 and remember why his chapters are so interesting. For his chapters, and later Brienne's, I would keep in mind that idea of knighthood you noticed in Sansa's chapters, it's one of my favourite recurring themes in the series. Another thing I love about ASOIAF that I don't see mentioned often is the disabled characters. ASOIAF has more disabled characters than any other series I have read (at least by the time of the last book) and they are all treated with just as much care and compassion and ambiguity as the other characters. Most often in fantasy when there are little people they are only halflings, hobbits, dwarves, fairies etc, small races who are specifically NOT HUMAN. Asoiaf actually has characters that are simply human beings with dwarfism, and I just love, love, love that. The way we see Tyrion struggle with the ableism of the society he lives in is so reflective of real life and refreshing to see discussed. GRRM is trying to establish that the setting of ASOIAF is not perfect, it's not to be idealized. ASOIAF is fantasy yes, but it's more interested in being a deconstruction of the genre itself. I love Cat dearly, and her relationship with Robb is my favourite familial relationship in the series. I've read all the books and it's still my favourite. It's sad and moving and tragic and everything I love in this series. Lastly, about Brienne, I have never read a female character, even ones written by women, that I relate to more than I relate to Brienne. I'm not joking or over exaggerating, she is my favourite female character. Ever. In my opinion, she is the moral heart of the series and her story is the most important thematically. A lot of my love for her comes from book 4, which is most people's least favourite, but it is my favourite.

[@xnewland9674]

So I read GOT after watching the show because I was a huge fan and wanted to start reading because I’ve never been much of a reader. I started the second book and didn’t touch it for a year. I watched your review on the first and you’ve inspired me to go through the whole series with your videos and I wanted to say thank you for helping me get back into reading. Finished a 700+ page book in a month is insane for me. Thank you again!

[@enlighten92]

I’m a massive fan of the series since 2012. I would recommend Fire and Blood as well , especially the official audiobook narrated by Simon Vance. Been re-reading and listening to F&B for last one year

[@maheen8869]

I've always loved catelyn but her ACOK chapters upon re-read were so hard-hitting and wonderful and I'm so glad you like her!!

[@TheDuckChris]

Hahaha the catelyn defence is amazing. Starting the next book right after is real degen energy and I love it The enthusiasm here is awesome to see, 32 minutes and it feels like you could have gone longer

[@artxroyalty]

Finished “A Clash of Kings” yesterday and after hearing everyone say “A Storm of Swords” is the best installment, I’m super excited to crack it open!

[@lewstherinteletubby50]

I had always been hesitant to read ASOIAF because of the show and earlier this year I began reading the series and a few weeks later you released your first video about aGoT and now right after I read aCoK you release a video about it. I love that you are going on the exact same journey. It really is an amazing series and so far I can understand all the hype.

[@Bookborn]

haha YES!!! Did you start SoS too?

[@DongusMcBongus]

The first 4 seasons are some of the best television ever to be filmed. Just like the books, even if it ended in tragedy, it is TOTALLY worth it to see this fantastic world realized in amazing fashion. Just treat season 5 and after as bad fanfic.

[@Hroupe]

It's so nice being able to re-experience the series through your own journey with the books. It's been a while since I've read them but it's all coming back so vividly listening to you talk about it

[@BradyStiff]

I read the series when I was seventeen in 2013. I never liked the show after season 3 or 4, so its poor ending didn't affect me. For a long time, I thought I wouldn't read the series again until the next book came, but watching your review on GOT made me change my mind. I had forgotten how much I liked reading these books. It is also interesting to come back and read them as a more mature/experienced reader than I was as a teenager. I feel like I missed a lot of things on my first read, so it's almost like I'm reading it again for the first time. Looking forward to your review of Storm of Swords! It was my favorite book on my first read-through of the series.

[@Bookborn]

OOH it's SO fun to be able to read a book as an adult that you read as a teen. I did that with Wheel of Time - I wasn't a teen when I read them but was super early 20s, and when I reread in my 30s I was shocked at how my perception of characters had changed based on my life experience. I feel like that would be doubled with a book like ASOIAF!

[@BooksWithBenghisKahn]

Loved this review! I had a very similar experience with this first read earlier this year. Amazing prologue, fantastic dialogue/internal monologue on every page, so many compelling characters. I think we experience fantasy characters in a similar way where we try to deeply empathize with them and truly inhabit their shoes -- it means we don't often just dismiss a character and hate them but appreciate their distinctiveness even if they do things that we wouldn't do ourselves.

[@felipebrosco2423]

Davos is my favorite character in the series. Him and Catelyn are just so much more mature and self-aware than everyone else in the story.

[@henriquedaumas9934]

The only reason I didnt like his PoVs was because ot made me angry that such a good man is dependent on Stannis (aka the Heartless mannis)

[@cacophonic7]

The Game of Thrones books were great the first time I read them, however, after absorbing more of the lore and becoming more familiar with the style, I am finding a second reading SO rewarding! I am picking up on hints and things earlier on and I am finding it a minefield of further surprises and delights on the second go. Dare I say I enjoy it even more on the second go round!

[@andrew-hf9fl]

I feel like there is no other author and series that Feels more real than asoiaf...and it has magic haha. Every single character feels like...if I were them, I would think say and do what they would think, say, and do what they do. It's so immersive, and it just keeps growing, the more you know. The depth of secret, mysterious world building and symbolism is beyond compare. Then, when you read the blood and fire history, it Really gives you this sense that this is just a slice in the history of a real world. Like at any point in the history of westeros you could just pick up and write a seven book masterpiece. Incredible

[@chris-te5tm]

Absolutely love the Catelyn defense. She's the Demeter of ASOIAF!

[@doomrot]

I 100% agree about Shocking Deaths vs Shock-Factor Deaths. Every major death in ASOIAF has huge ripple effects after the fact. Hollywood is bad at this; someone dies for shock value and the story continues like nothing happened.

[@havewissmart9602]

Great time to start reading! The next book's just around the corner

[@hawk66100]

Fuckin Dave Chapelle ova here!! 😂

[@JSP471]

I audibly laughed at this, well done 👏

[@bidossessi]

😂😂 well done, well done 👌

[@Bookborn]

lmao ok but my friend did joke that like she'd be furious if George somehow released it right as I finished and I didn't have to wait at all ☠

[@Chu9947]

​@@Bookborn2025 release is very likely

[@drewdubose2941]

People who give "vague references" dont seem to realize that people some people can infer better than others and while a "vague reference" might not have given anything away to you, it could give someone else a clue that spoils the whole plot point. This only works in real life but of late I say "I am gonna read/see it, so not a word please!"

[@hardyworld]

I'm so glad you loved the book. I was also late to the IP (I read the books 2015-2017 and didn't watch the show until 2020), but I actively avoided spoilers for YEARS because I wanted the non-spoiler experience. It wasn't easy, but it was worth it. I loved the books and not being spoiled made it much better. I spent LOTS of time thinking about the characters and their motivations as I read the books and actively looked for youtube videos that discussed plot points I already read about (and not spoil what was still ahead of me). It was honestly hard work to walk on that tightrope, but I enjoyed the books so much that they drove me to that level of fandom. I'm excited for your to read the rest of the series because I think your fandom will only grow from here.

[@Bookborn]

I'm so scared to google anything/ watch anything so I'm trying to read all five and then go back and binge all the content to catch up 😂

[@hardyworld]

@@Bookborn I completely understand and I wish you well on your journey through A Song of Ice and Fire. When done reading (and if still hungry for consuming more from ASoIaF), I recommend checking out videos from creators: In Deep Geek, Alt Shift X, whycreate, and Preston Jacobs. I love your channel and I hope you can provide some more reading recommendations for kids!

[@TheGreaseGoblins]

First of all welcome to the community of ASOIAF! Speaking on the Catelyn hot topic, I am someone who uploads ASOIAF content regularly, and can say she is one of the hardest povs for me to place. Personally I don't like Catelyn as a character, but she is by far one of the best povs of the story. Like u mentioned she has a lot of the most interesting and important chapters. Also, she is just a very human character without getting into spoilers, she is the one character that seems too real because of her struggles. Excited to see your reaction to Storm it is by far regarded as the best book, but personally mine is Clash because I am a team Stannis guy

[@TheGreaseGoblins]

Follow up comment I don't like Cat, but even when ranking the povs of all the books for me she is easily in the top 5.

[@nathanielanderson6356]

The next book is on a whole different level. There are some genuinely shocking moments that I hope dont get spoiled. I totally agree with you on Theon. I didn't like seeing the world from his point of view. He was always gross and made my skin crawl.

[@jonrazo7912]

It's funny, Most of the characters become more sympathetic when they get POVs, and somehow he becomes worse.

[@nathanielanderson6356]

@@jonrazo7912 I completely agree. I understand the purpose of The on, but still he's just awful.

[@Amberrogers]

I started EMPATHIZING with Theon. I started off this book with me ADORING his perspective only to start falling into a pit of despair and frustration after each passing Theon chapter.

[@gulsahalkan5578]

@@jonrazo7912cersei becomes worse

[@nevaehaho61]

I LOVE that you love Catelyn and Sansa and Davos. They do not get enough love for how well they’re written.

[@Fenix-lr6ez]

A week ago I was wondering if you had stopped the ASOIAF read. Loved your A Game of Thrones video, and happy that you liked A Clash of Kings too! I think my favourite part of the book was Catelyn's chat with Jaime, he's such a great character. I know he's a villain but I don't know why I loved him from the start, Kingslayer is such a cool nickname lol. Also the House of the Undying chapter is mental, but as you say, it's 100 times better on a re-read cause you see what the visions were referring to. Loved also Qhorin Halfhand and the rest of the Night's Watch men that went with Jon. Probably the best soldiers the Watch had to offer. And as a side note, long live King Stannis!

[@yellowlili221]

even if the ASIOAF is never be finished, there are still books in the ASOIAF universe that added to the world-building and other great characters :)

[@Bookborn]

Yes, I've heard some good short stories! And then of course the book House of the Dragon is based on (can't remember the book title lol)

[@mrc-rrn]

@@Bookborn the book is called "Fire & Blood", the short stories are collected in "A Knight of the seven Kingdoms" and there is a lore and history book called "The World of Ice and Fire"

[@christopherdaley5617]

I am a new subscriber to your channel and I really love it. I am here to thank you for a gift you have given me. I almost didn’t watch these videos and I am overjoyed I did. I had lost sight of the joy these books brought me. I was so frustrated with the fact that it was not completed that it overwhelmed almost all other irrational thought. I read the first book in the year 1996. This would have been my third year as a new teacher. Next year I will retire from teaching with 30 years of teaching under my belt. That timeline seems to have blinded me. My frustration of reaching the end of my career without reaching the end of (what at one time I called) my favorite series. Listening to you talk about them has reminded me why I absolutely adored these books. They are masterful. Your joy has returned my joy. You have also reminded me of all the series I haven’t finished but never regretted reading. They were all by choice and it never bothered me. I think I have actually found some closure with this series. While I would love to read the end and will be up all night reading the next book if it comes out. I have let go of my resentment. For years I have refused to reread these books (and I reread books all the time) but I think the time has come for me to dive back in and experience the world again. It won’t be right away….I have finally decided to read Malazan Book of the Fallen….that might take awhile. Thanks again. Also, Storm of Swords is one of the best fantasy novels ever written.

[@J.S.MacDirty]

Don't tell me you skipped weasel stew.

[@bobfallen]

These videos are inspiring me to have another reread. I'm also really looking forward to you reactions in the future for your favorite characters!

[@TheRealNorth21]

Awesome that book 2 managed to rope you in like this, book 3 is widely considered to be the best one with some of my personal favorite scenes so it only goes up from here. Also THANK YOU for defending Cat, you and Glidus are the only youtubers I’ve watched who don’t just blindly hate her.

[@netojader]

Excitedly waiting for your Storm of Swords video 🙏

[@giants8585]

I cant get enough of this. Love this long form review. This series deserves and requires it. Cat is an amazing character and imo is the best "mother" in all of fantasy. Character wise. I love her. Annnnd I have to add I am so envious of you getting to experience all of this fresh. Well as fresh as someone can lol

[@michaelnapper4565]

I read this series twice, back to back. I've now read them three times, and even a bit of a fourth. I still get chills. Speaks volumes to his poise and talent.

[@tanyam928]

The series takes so many twists and turns and the characters change so much throughout. I am really interested to see who your favorites and most hated are by the (current) end

[@Bookborn]

Oh I FULLY expect it to change a lot just based on how much happens every book 😂

[@jjjjjjjjjj11ify]

Yes! Yes! Yes! I'm so glad you decided to make a video for each book. So much to cover. Can't wait for your Storm of Swords review. That one's my favorite.

[@Bookborn]

It seems to be everyone’s favorite so I’m looking forward to it. The first 100 pages were already wild

[@michaelanderson5301]

One good point previously mentioned was that if Sansa and Arya switched their experiences growing up, that is, each going through what the other went though, neither one of them would have survived

[@Bookborn]

Omg YES THANK YOU FOR THIS COMMENT

[@PhosPhryne]

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on Jamie post A Storm of Swords.

[@thebrain8188]

If you loved ACoK, you’re gonna love A Storm of Swords. And it’s not her treatment of Jon that people dislike, it’s more the fact that her actions are in GoT are what set off the War of the Five Kings.

[@Spiderweb444]

Love seeing my favorite booktuber embrace my favorite series and trust me it only gets better. I binged all asoiaf books this year and I love this world and dani especially.

[@Bookborn]

I'm very excited for Dany to get more central in the action, she's such a good character...

[@Lacabradiscoteca]

Does anyone know what line she’s talking about at 19:10 timestamp? I’ve read the book twice but either I didn’t catch this or I forgot

[@ThalonRamacorn]

That was the best wanking material :P Jokes aside... it was the story Arya overheard about a rape. Nothing special, just a reason for Arya to make a very stupid choice to kill a smallfry instead of someone bigger.

[@darthzombie18]

It is so nice hearing positive things about this series again. Reminds me of how much I love this story and these books, since the fandom on reddit and other message boards has gotten so toxic and pessimistic because the series is more than likely never going to finish. Can't wait to hear your thoughts and the next three books!

[@jimave]

You are making me want to re-read the series again!

[@Bookborn]

Look I'm only on book 3 and I'm already planning my reread so just do it is what I say

[@bencressman6110]

I’m looking forward greatly to my eventual reread

[@porkmaster4312]

Jaime is my favorite. I do not hate Catelyn at all. Some decisions I disagree with but I understand them. If I can understand a character's decisions then I can empathize fully. I am excited to see your reaction to Jaime as a character in the next book. If you like flawed characters, oh sister, he's a banger!

[@NaritaZaraki]

I think the best way I've seen someone summaries how incredibly and masterfully effective George's prologues are in ASOIAF across the board - character writing, worldbuilding, atmosphere, dialogue etc. etc. - was Will from the "Unresolved Textual Tension" podcast describing Martin as being first and foremost a phenomenal short story writer. I think that's a great way of approaching the prologue chapters (as self-contained short stories) to be able to analyze and see the intricate techniques particular to that genre of witting being deftly utilized to pack a punch with so little page time. As for Catelyn (and Sansa) literally GO 👏 OFF 👏 QUEEN 👏 I have A LOT to say about fandom where these two in particular are concerned but I won't say more here because I don't want to start a fight in your comment section but also some of it might be spoiler-y BUT I want you to know I'm with you on every word you've said here!!!

[@Bookborn]

wow I never even thought of it like that but YES!! Both prologues have been a SHORT STORY and have a full arc which is probably why they work so well. AND SANSA AND CATELYN FOREVER THANK YOU

[@Junior6288]

The Wheel of Time stilling rant has aged PERFECTLY! You were so certain. I was rooting for you! But having seen the last episode before watching your review I was highly entertained. 😂❤🎉

[@Bookborn]

Lmaoooo thank you for rooting for me 🤣🤣😭

[@syedshahrukhraza2923]

Holy shit!! Asoiaf managed to convert you. And it didn't even have to rely on book 3 to do so. Edit: do not read the comments until you finish book 3. The next book goes in a direction that you probably won't expect. Best to go in blind. Edit 2: tHotU is absolutely insane on a reread. The way it connects to the overall asoiaf lore is amazing.

[@Bookborn]

So...I'm worried I accidentally read a spoiler on Reddit. It wasn't in full context, but I'm trying to not think about it so that my brain can maybe forget it 😭But other than that I'm guessing there will still be a lot of twists and turns...

[@syedshahrukhraza2923]

@@Bookborn Listen, you're talking to someone who was a dumb teen when GoT S1 came out and, in order to look cool to one of my asoiaf friends, tried to talk about S1 as if I'd seen it. And he spoiled Ned's death for me. Yeah, that happened. Then later on, I had just finished book 2 and was a little confused about the whereabouts of a character and so I went to the Ice & Fire wiki in order to get some context. I *really* tried to be careful this time and yet..... there it was. "DIED IN (Year) AT (Place)". And this was another major character, mind you. But trust me. These books are so dense and rich that knowing these spoilers didn't ruin anything for me. The *way* stuff happens is far more interesting than the stuff itself. GRRM is a master of setup and he's already set up almost every event that's going to happen in book 3. You just didn't pick up on it because it seems like a random detail. Just keep reading and enjoy the ride. Be careful about spoilers but don't stress out over it. This story is far too enjoyable to be ruined by a mere spoiler or two. ...... ...... ...... ...... ...... ...... But yeah, reddit is 100x worse than your comment section. Avoid it until you've read book 3.

[@SidV101]

@@Bookborn there's two moments in the series that people talk about endlessly and you managed to completely misinterpret the first one, so...

[@lead_downpour8854]

I was screaming internally the entire time you were talking about Jaime and Tyrion's relationship and how you want it to be explored! You're going to LOVE Storm!

[@roberthoeffer7419]

Catelyn is a great character because she makes me feel sympathy but also so upset at her at the same time LOL. I always thought that the angst about her stems from her kicking off the events of GoT. Her decision to capture Tyrion, which leads to Ned being injured and spur the Lannister's to watch him more closely. Tyrion's capture was based on poor logic, and little proof and she easily understood that she risked war and death for her husband and children (A great character moment, but still...). Sansa also a great character but starts her character arc starts off where all her decisions are based on how things affect her and her (somewhat naive) dream which IMHO can be really off putting when coupled with her initial classism. That aside I think the main reason she gets so much hate has to do with her unintended betrayal of her father (again a great character moment but still lead to Ned's death).

[@Bookborn]

Capturing Tyrion was absolutely an emotional reaction rather than a logical one but idk I just understand it SO MUCH which is why I think I have so much sympathy, even though it was obviously a terrible decision.

[@roberthoeffer7419]

@@Bookborn I don't disagree with you at all, the decision is perfectly in-line with her character and absolutely necessary for the story. it is part of the tapestry that is integral to the story and I would never want to change it. I can't even say that I wouldn't make the same decision, I just understand why there is such a degree of Catelyn angst. in fact I think just shows how awesome of a character she is, that she elicits such strong emotion for actions that no one argues is out of character To expand, not only does it serve the character, but the scene also works on so many other levels. It reinforces that these are complex flawed characters (as no one makes perfect decisions, not even Tyrion and other intelligent characters that you will encounter soon) and there are believable, unintended, and undesired consequences to many of the decisions in the series. I also think this scene establishes the trend of ASOIAF nobles making emotional decisions from a place of relative safety or immediate advantage and how others often bear the costs of those choices (especially with reader 20/20 hindsight).

[@HariKrishnan-kx1is]

I agree that it's an emotional decision and a bad one in hindsight but the funny thing is Ned would have done the exact same thing. So would Rob or Jon. All the Starks have this trait of responding emotionally to justice even if it's not in their better interest to do so. Ned is not acting cautious after Tyrion's capture, he's gearing up to take the fight to the Lannisters. Cat really does believe Tyrion tried to kill Bran. And to be fair to her she had no idea what Lysa had become.

[@troyb5843]

Hearing someone new get exited about this story in 2023 puts a smile on my face. This IP comes with so much baggage at this point, but watching your reviews of these books brings me back to being a high school freshman in 2011. Dance was just released, I was halfway through Clash, season 1 was out… it was a great time to be a fantasy nerd. I like that you called out the dialogue, it’s excellent. Probably due to his time working in television prior to ASOIAF and hearing real people deliver lines he had written, I find it much snappier and more natural sounding than many fantasy writers.

[@2plus2equals4]

The one thing that struck me about this series was how I loathed Jaime at the beginning and then he became one of my favorites. It was an amazing character arc from Martin.

[@Bookborn]

I literally hear this from EVERYONE so I fully expect to have the same thing happen to me lol

[@2plus2equals4]

@@Bookborn Its been 10+ years since I read these so my memory may be a little hazy. I don't think Jaime ever fundamentally changes. He's rational, pragmatic and devoted to his family, hence shove Bran off the tower. Its also not like he has an epiphany to be a better person. I think he is consistent but his circumstances and his families fragmentation result in choices and a direction that make you root for him. Fascinating.

[@Michael_R_Miller]

I'm in the middle of re-listening to Clash right now! The best is yet to come in Storm of Swords, so you're in for a treat!!

[@Namrhof]

Know that the Shows follow a different story path than the books! There is some things that the show will spoil for you, but Overall, they are 2 separate entities. Enjoy the journey! Its my favorite book series ever and there is so much there even without it being done. edit: DEFEND CATELYN!!!!

[@Bookborn]

I never plan on watching the show so luckily that won't be a thing for me!

[@Namrhof]

@@Bookborn Honestly, thats for the best! The first 4 seasons of the show are very good and close to the books, but s5 on onwards its drastically different. Books>>>>>>>Show

[@SidV101]

​@@Bookborn you should consider watching the show! It improves upon several of the characters with the changes it makes. Even George R.R. Martin prefers the show versions of certain characters. My favorite monologue in the entire series is also exclusive to the show ("chaos is a ladder"). There's a reason why it was such a hit.

[@Bookborn]

I am absolutely certain that the show is too graphic for me, and I would not enjoy that aspect. @@SidV101

[@SidV101]

​@@Bookborn fair enough, the show goes well beyond the books there. I'm not sure how well a fan edit to censor/blur the gore and nudity would work. In addition to its infamous "sexposition" (combining exposition and sex scenes), the show has a bad habit of turning consenual encounters into SA and adding entirely new instances of SA

[@Melissa-tw2gp]

Catelyn remains one of my favs. I knew immediately when you mentioned a hated character it was going to be her. Cat also has to worry about Jon as a threat to her children as heirs. There’s a long history of inter family feuds in this world and the medieval world. Doesn’t excuse her treatment of him, but it makes sense.