HICKORY DICKORY DOCK by Agatha Christie | Project Poirot Spoiler Free

[@LiaMahony]

“I think sometimes Agatha Christie doesn’t know how actual humans operate” 🤣🤣 I love when you give shade to the books but still stay a fangirl.

[@danecobain]

The weird thing is that that's kinda how they did operate back then!

[@bookslikewhoa]

Haha, we can only roast those we truly love! :)

[@eleanor7]

The reason I always assumed that she named this book after the nursey rhyme because it's attention grabbing. It's memorable, it sticks out in people's brains. So people are more likely to want to pick it up and read said book.

[@LiaMahony]

I think you are right about Christie not being proficient at writing people from outside UK and US, even her Americans and Brits fell into many a stereotype. Poirot was her anomaly however this may be because he was primarily referenced through his personal behavioural quirks not his specific nationality. (He was a quirky man who happened to be from Belgium. Rather than he was quirky BECAUSE he was from Belgium. ) not articulating clearly here. But hope you grasp my gist.

[@iansmith4023]

Lia I agree with your points. I know that Christie was extremely shy;and found it very difficult to talk to people,and therefore get to know them - but she was,by all accounts,an extremely good listener and observer. Perhaps this is why some of her characters come across as somewhat stereotypical?

[@bookslikewhoa]

I really like how you said that- that Poirot is FIRST a quirky character and THEN foreign. For her other foreigners, it's like that is the defining quality of that character, rather than just being one of many details about them.

[@smitsonavane6278]

Okay honestly I liked this book But it scares me The murders aren't brutal but I don't know why but they seem so evil Spoilers ahead: Nigel killed Celia in a kind of disgusting and really eager way He killed Mrs Nicoletis like a sadist But the final blow was when he killed Patricia Lane cause come on it's such a big betrayal He's like Michael Myers if he was sane on the outside but still a sadist murderer on the inside

[@iansmith4023]

When reading Christie in chronological order, it's interesting to see how the stories reflect the wider changes in UK society and how Christie viewed them : from the rigid class system of the 20s and 30s;to the austerity of the war and immediate post-war period;to the increasing cosmopolitan society of the 50s;and the rise in youth culture of the 60s. However,these changes are being observed and commented upon through the attitudes of an increasingly aged woman (with all the foibles and prejudices that a woman of her generation would have had.) I agree that she should be applauded - and she clearly tried hard to reflect 'modern' ideals;but this often makes for uncomfortable or patronising reading.

[@bookslikewhoa]

Yeah, patronizing and uncomfortable are very good words. The further I get into the project, the more I'm feeling it. But then, maybe that also comes from reading so many back to back to back?

[@ysbel]

I liked this book a lot even with its problems. After a while, I started enjoying Agatha Christie more for her snapshots of a society in a particular place and time than as murder mysteries because her solutions tended to repeat themselves. To me, this book represents Agatha Christie acknowledging the huge influx of students from the British Commonwealth after the war and the pending changes to the fabric of the nation that they represented. Of course, Sally Finch represented a naive SJW but in some places in the U.S. she really would have had little chance to interact with POC as her equals. Also I read Akibombo as being just really bad at English which the Brits just interpreted as being dumb overall. He also was young with not a long experience living in England. But he had the best comeback to a racist statement that I’ve heard in awhile. When Nigel mentioned that someone was ‘free, white, and 21’ Akibombo asked what it meant. When one of the girls tried to downplay what Nigel said and told him it didn’t mean anything, Akibombo then asked, ‘Why say something if it doesn’t mean anything?’ He was the only student in that hostel that could have pulled off that comeback and it was delicious.

[@mikegseclecticreads]

Really nice review, I was looking forward to hearing what you had to say on this one as soon as I finished. I fully agree with you both on the mystery plot (too much guesswork by Poirot) and on the analysis of how many characters were portrayed (nice try, but still falls very short of modern standards). Even the Italian cook felt like a bit of a laughingstock, though he still had it much better then Mr. Akibombo who I guess didn't even have a full name? I still found it enjoyable enough to read though because the hostel setting made for something a little different than Christie's other novels.

[@isabelalexander6381]

the fact that i don’t even remember william just goes to show there are FAR too many characters in this book. i agree with your view on the solution, it’s sort of slowly revealed throughout with many many pieces that don’t click together in a way that felt i had a shot at figuring it out? like you said, a lot of convenient guesswork. even in regards to the list of stolen objects, about five different people end up being somewhat responsible?? it’s a little messy. and is really missing a big poirot reveal!

[@isabelalexander6381]

i think the POC just unfortunately don’t play much of a role. i remember Gopal being introduced, but does he ever show up again?? the same with Elizabeth, she was just dropped, even though she could’ve been really interesting. i also thought sally and akimbombo made more sense than len at the end, which felt a little shoehorned.

[@TheNathanj2009]

I knew this would almost send you over the edge🤣yeah the nursery rhyme thing was getting very redundant by this stage!

[@IrmiRose]

I think you are right. She could empathize with the "other" because of her American-ness and that was the lens by which she viewed the times. But that doesn't mean she could recognize racism at all, in herself or in others. It was still so much a part of her that her intellect could no longer help her. She could not speak to what a non-racist, non-colonialist reality would look like or be expressed as. I think it's very much comparable to how so many white people today who identify as non-racist do so just because they aren't blatantly racist. They couldn't tell you what white privilege even is let alone define their own or care to begin to deconstruct it. Our brains are hard to unwire when it comes to our biases. Speaking of the Suchet adaptation [which notably had not a single black or brown actor in it], I don't remember Ms. Lemmon's sister being named Mrs. Hubbard, but I do remember that character being called "Ma" by the students in the houses. So, Mother Hubbard! Great video, again!

[@bookslikewhoa]

Yesssss, this! I was reading a quote from the son of a prominent KKK member the other day (thanks Twitter! :)), and he was saying how his dad was always looking for people on the internet who would start comments with "I'm not racist but...". He saw that as a foothold in the door. Very humbling to think about, because we all have those little biases that we don't see as a big deal, but could totally be the beginnings of a more active, deeper prejudice. I appreciate Agatha trying here, but yeah, I think she just couldn't get far enough away from her unconscious biases & prejudices to create real people I haven't seen the Suchet adaptation, but there are seriously no AOC in it??? What the actual fuck, BBC? Did they read the book??

[@locutusdborg126]

@@bookslikewhoa IrmiFROSE IS WRONG ABOUT there being no people of color in the adaptation. There are at least two Indians (from India).

[@puirYorick]

Agatha Christie took an early stab at *The Blind Side* before the contemporary IRL revelations about that story?

[@Smallpotato1965]

I love her nursery rhyme titles! What else would this book be called? 'Death in the hostel'? 'The hostel of death'? 'The student hostel murders'? Bleh. 'Hickory dickory dock' is much more fun.

[@bookslikewhoa]

Haha, different strokes for different folks! I like them fine if they seem to actually related strongly to the story... for me, this one just didn't :/

[@sempre8135]

In portuguese it was translated to "Crime em Hickory Road" (Crime in Hickory Road) wich i think is a way better title. Simple name but it works here. On the other hand, Evil Under the Sun , a really great title, was translated to "Morte na praia" (Death on the beach) wich is a very boring title. Sometimes you win when you change, sometimes you dont ;)

[@eamongilligan3262]

Great analysis! I have to admit, I've always really liked this book, though I can see the issues with it too. I feel when I did my chronological reading many years ago that this was the point where I started noticing the plot wasn't coming together as completely as before, and subplots weren't being resolved. Not in a huge way but perhaps indicative of things to come by the sixties. For example it was noticeable to me how much Elizabeth Johnson was a part of the story in the first half of the novel and then kind of disappears in the second, and she was an interesting character. For me, what I love about this book is the international flavour. My favourite memories from it are the scenes where all the students are squabbling over breakfast. The youth hostel setting is something new and reflective of the times too. It's definitely not without problems though as you say. I feel as you do ("A for effort") because you can tell she was trying to present a progressive point of view, even if somewhat simplistically on occasion. This is the book I think where they talk about black nurses being so much nicer and better at their jobs than white nurses from memory. It doesn't always work of course. I thought the: "Everyone calls her Black Bess and this name isn't offensive because she accepted it herself" statement to be kind of strange and not wholly convincing, though you can tell it's not meant offensively, just a bit naively. I also do like the ease of friendship between Sally and Mr Akibombo in the UK with the knowledge that segregation is a thing back in her home country, even though it's a bit problematic as you say. I like that she allows characters to call out the Anglo-Saxons on issues, like when Elizabeth Johnson talks about the witchhunts, or Chandra Lal brings up the Mau Mau and the Suez Canal... so yeah, I agree she's really trying here. One other small thing I noticed is that this book again contains more of Christie's distrust of overly religious people, though it's a bit more subtle, and that's in the characterisation of Jean Tomlinson who I think Christie portrays as a really unpleasant young woman always trying to show herself as being pious, while being a snoop, a gossip and very judgmental. Good grief I've written another novel myself here! Fantastic video as always! 😀

[@bookslikewhoa]

I also liked this one pretty well on my first read-- I think reading it critically/in chronological order is what kind of killed it for me, lol :). The setting really is fun, and I enjoyed all the character interactions between the students. And yes, that's well said about subplots not being resolved! I hadn't thought about it in quite that way, but yes, that's what a lot of the feeling of lack of cohesion was probably coming from. There just seem to be too many threads & they don't resolve in any kind of satisfying way. Good call on Elizabeth Johnson- yeah, what the hell happened to her in the back half of the book??? And very true on Jean- I assume giving her such a bummer name was a part of that unfavorable characterization ;)

[@danecobain]

I haven't got to this one yet either haha, I'm starting to wonder if I'd get more value if I read them in order instead of dipping in and out at random!

[@bookslikewhoa]

I think chronological reading has pros and cons-- I liked this book better the first time, in part because I didn't have all the really good ones to compare it to. But you can definitely see how her themes book over book build if you read in order... so pick your poison! :)

[@danecobain]

Well also I guess a lot of the books that I've read are like Tommy and Tuppence ones and stuff which actually means I'm saving a little Poirot for later :D

[@notdeadjustyet8136]

I like the setup of this book a lot,as it's very different to most of her works,but she doesn't really know how to write foreignn&non-rich young ppl,so she often treats them as comic relief or doesn't develop them at all. it comes off as unvitingly offencive & ignorant. Which is a massive pity, as this was a great opportunity. The solution was somehow both too easy (if you've read a lot of Agatha) & out of the blue (in terms of clues& deduction) & the ending was a bit rushed Imo. It was great that it didn't involve disguise though😂 All in all, this is one of those books with a good idea and atmosphere but not a great execution.

[@Graid]

As someone who has only ever seen the David Suchet TV adaptation of this one, in which the only foreign character is the Greek woman, I'm genuinely surprised to find that this book had such a diverse, if cringeworthy cast. I can see why they didn't add these characters to the adaptation, though, they could've perhaps tried harder to incorporate that aspect in the adaptation. I remember that the adaptation also had the most intensely filmed interpretation of the Hickory Dickory Dock nursery rhyme possible- I believe I was a child when I saw it first and I was genuinely feeling the intense suspense of the mouse climbing up the clock! This one I found compelling to *watch* but it's also quite psychologically unpleasant. I always felt terrible for poor Patricia!

[@isabelalexander6381]

unfortunately none of the diverse cast end up being at all relevant in the plot! which is such a waste of representation

[@ofgodzeus]

the huge cast worked well with the orient express haha I like this serie I'mma check out the other ones..

[@ofgodzeus]

I agree with the akibombo thing (I'm commenting as I watch XD)

[@locutusdborg126]

Just re=read the superb Card on the Table and forgot the racial slurs used to describe the Mephistophean antagonist.

[@kevindoom]

this book is in my top ten