Boomer vs Coomer: a response to "Rick Beato is Wrong"

[@Midna__]

[@xXMachineGunPhillyXx]

You forgot:

[@Midna__]

@@xXMachineGunPhillyXx well,

[@Christophernbh]

Me when I watched both Fantano and Rick's video- "OH NOOO!"

[@Ronnie.Raymond]

[@Midbooze]

LMAO

[@RockLuca6]

Boomer vs Coomer commented on by a Doomer.

[@labuti17]

🧹🧹🧹Broomer passing by

[@metalvyvern9531]

We're waiting on the Eoomer next.

[@vcp93]

Uh ....you spelled "Loser Dickhead" wrong, but I'm with you.

[@replicated]

@@metalvyvern9531Foom it, then goom it.

[@SearchingForTone]

🤣when my dog runs around In circles I call him a zoomer

[@xXMachineGunPhillyXx]

Three Italian men squaring off. Is this the Coliseum?

[@loweffortproductions1985]

Beato Fantano Kupris 🤔 Yup, checks out

[@CYB3R2K]

Gladiator II, the actual good one.

[@lucasartscrafts6023]

too good!

[@jarjar45123]

hahah love it

[@Ca.li.ban.]

Has Mike italian descent?

[@xdimitrije]

One more nerd jumps into the debate. Hell yea

[@thewhiterabbit8581]

We only need adam neely to respond to this and we got the musical nerd beef of the decade titled "Does music suck?"

[@troysmithfr]

Add 12tone as well lmao

[@Bloor005]

No, we need the other bass guy, the BEHS guy!!

[@alexanderwilliamson7431]

"Well rick likes music theory and music theory is racist. so there for rick beato is racist". Adam neely probably.

[@thewhiterabbit8581]

@@troysmithfr Rick likes rock music, and 12 tone writes on paper, so 12tone would win, I guess 🤣

[@gergoretvari6373]

this comment section is gold

[@EmperorTigerstar]

It largely seems like Fantano is arguing about creativity from the result of the final product while Rick is arguing about the creativity that goes into the final product. These perspectives can overlap but they are different if you think about it, and it makes sense the critic thinks about the final product while the studio producer focused on the process.

[@gallusgallusdomesticus281]

It's producer plus Artists perspective. The artist is just as likely to value the process just a producer. Hell, sometimes they're the same person. Also, just because a critic is divorced from the creative process doesn't mean they don't understand it or respect. The issue you pointed out is closely related to consumers, who in fact are the ones who only care about the end product. And I'd honestly say that Fantano operates more under "Music Optimism", where music is always in a great spot because technology has allowed so many people to make music on their own and because so much is being put out statistically some of it must be great even if it gains no traction and no one knows it exists.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@gallusgallusdomesticus281Fantano is an "artist" in the same way Yoko Ono is an artist...

[@gallusgallusdomesticus281]

​@@mr.brenman2132I mean that Producers and artists have a very similar relationship to the music making process. I did not once imply that Fantano was either of these. Lol.

[@jamilmcclelland8304]

​@mr.brenman2132. Lol😂

[@Ruddline]

@@mr.brenman2132 I hate Ono too but she did have the cojones to make her crazy music, Fantano ain't made dick.

[@Slagdar]

12:48 Just something to add to that. From personal experience. it's not the Technology that limits innovation or creativity. it's the environment it puts you in. usually when you're with a couple of people in a band, studio (or even just in the same room with someone to bounce off of) there's a healthy *clash* of ideas, thoughts, noodling etc. and at multiple points someone will say something like "WOAH STOP!, DO THAT AGAIN!" because something another person did ignited a creative spark. When you are alone, in your small little bubble with your pc, tech and every tool available, to be a one-man-band. It is MUCH more difficult to get that creative spark, including the energy and motivation to keep trying until something good pops out.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Taking art creation from collaborative to solo is a great point I hadn't considered! Thank you for sharing 🙏

[@keithparker1346]

We can now collaborate in real time over the net ...so you're kind of wrong

[@frankmarsh1159]

Plus when human beings play they are pushing and pulling the tempo and dynamics ever so slightly. Computers don't do that.

[@keithparker1346]

@@frankmarsh1159 computers can be programmed to do that

[@frankmarsh1159]

@@keithparker1346 No they can't.

[@willhalvorson6118]

For Fantano’s point about digital music being difficult, I think he’s referring to it the same way it can be hard to pick out a movie on netflix than in a theater, because there are so many options you can get lost. It’s obviously harder to mic a real drum, but when you have a wall of 1000s of snare sounds and you have to pick one, it can be just as time consuming

[@Fe22234]

​@@wiggy009It is not a problem just a different challenge

[@DiscGolfLeagueMVP]

It's funny how this guy rants about Fantano putting words into Ricks mouth, while doing the exact same thing to Fantano. Dude started going on about "Woke shitheads" a few minutes later so im not surprised

[@jonasjakobsson9006]

And when you finally have a good snare sample it still needs to fit the mix. You tune it and process it to what vision you have for the song you are making. And again something being harder does not mean a better result!

[@Anonymous-o6t6p]

It is genuinely interesting to me to see so many different people coming together on this subject

[@darkdudironaji]

Haven't watched the video yet. But calling Fantano a "coomer" in the title tickles my funny bone.

[@mycity7590]

It's funny because it's fit's him.

[@ifiwantyoutofeel]

what even is that

[@darkdudironaji]

@@ifiwantyoutofeel Google it. The KZbin Bot will almost certainly shadow ban a comment describing.

[@Arthur_-xv4yt]

​@@ifiwantyoutofeel it means porn addict

[@mariokarter13]

"I'm feeling a soft 10 inches on my wife's bull."

[@DivineTrash81]

"Who fucking cares, Rick? Bonanza's on!" I nearly died.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

I'm so glad someone caught that lmao

[@jackielupo5943]

@@BecomeTheKnight dude, he's only 63. His dad maybe, but Rick was a year old when Bonanza ended its run. Rick said what a lot of people say all the time; the fall-off of musicianship has been steady across time and all genres.

[@perlundgren7797]

@@jackielupo5943 Beato was born in 62, and unless the internet is lying to me Bonanza's last season aired in 73. I'm no mathematician, but I don't think he was one at that point.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@jackielupo5943I'm in my twenties and Bonanza is awesome. So is Gunsmoke and Have Gun Will Travel.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@perlundgren7797Bonanza has been on television since it was first aired. It's on television now.

[@CYB3R2K]

Well dear Mike... as one famous philosopher once said "Everything is fucked, everybody suck". All music suck and yet there's awesome on it.

[@joe.osullivan]

Sounds like music needs to get some better beats and uh, get some better rhymes

[@jackofalltrades7728]

System of a down ey?

[@joe.osullivan]

@@jackofalltrades7728 wrong nu metal band...

[@TheBull14597]

i think the technology argument would be more correct or less broad, if it were about the automation and industrialization of music, even art all together

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Excellent observation!!!

[@georgeantonioandrei8570]

Well, yeah, but then it should be addresed differently.

[@TailosDarwin]

things evolve. being against evolution to make a point about how art is less meaningful or whatever the case may be is just stupid and sounds like making excuses for not being able to adapt

[@SaumBodhi]

​@@TailosDarwinnew isn't always good. Do you love how cars have bluetooth now but you work over 400% more buying power for the thing to die off within 7 years? "Adapting" or just plain getting screwed? Sometimes new things are shit. Define shit? Something that far from optimal. Something worthy of explusing from our behinds.

[@TailosDarwin]

@@SaumBodhi I mean that is a great general statement about how not all inventions are better but yet the point remains. Art can be just as great with today's modern technology it's all on the artist if they wanna refine the tools they choose to use

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Mike, you NAILED IT with this video! This might be the best video I've ever seen on the topic. You're such a great critical thinker and it really shows here! 👏👏👏

[@BecomeTheKnight]

I'm honored. Thank you, Finn

[@CYB3R2K]

😭😭😭 I get it 🤣

[@conormurphy4328]

Nature is healing 🙏

[@shrimpe2876]

This sounds like a copypasta lmaooo

[@gergoretvari6373]

for a second i red it as "Critical Drinker"

[@thebubonicj]

You gotta admire a man that will just turn on a camera in front of millions of people and just rattle off whatever he’s thinking after 2 cups of coffee. But seriously, I like Rick. He’s alright

[@mrbungle3310]

id rather listen to an experienced boomer spew shower thoughts,than a marxist vaush fan sob over it with his highschool philosophy diploma

[@SaumBodhi]

Well its the type of stuff you talk about between friends just shooting the shit. He doesn't owe anyone a detailed fucking thorough research on every fucking thing he says when he's just shooting the shit and always says let me know what you think. It's just what he thinks. It's a prompt for friendly conversation in a age of rage and division. SOURCE?!

[@keithparker1346]

Beato is a clown but wise enough to know his audience consists of narrow minded classic rock fans who haven't even bothered to listen to any music from the 21st century, so hes just catering to his dimwitted fan base

[@JacobTheMusicMan]

Rick's better than fantano 100%

[@Ruddline]

Its supposed to be KZbin so its a self expression website. I totally agree Fantano acting too much.

[@NuMetalfan1996]

Rick Beato’s point is that music isn’t impacting culture anymore like it was doing just 15/20/25 years ago, because we no longer live in a monoculture and we now live in a very fragmented media world where everyone has there own little niche with their own personal algorithms. That’s Rick Beato’s point that Fantano and his audience don’t understand. Fantano and his audience just label Beato as a cliche of “old man yells at cloud” but I think that’s too easy to say. I think there is legit criticisms of the music landscape of the last 10 years. Because we now live in a very fragmented media world, it means Relying on nostalgia to sell tickets Nothing that is underground will ever hit the mainstream again Which are bad things.

[@theheresiarch3740]

If that's what he meant then he should have said that, because he didn't get that across in the slightest. The only thing he did manage to get across was a bunch of whining about technology limiting creativity and modern music being bad because of new methods used to make it, which is an impressive level of cognitive dissonance; it's not creative because it's not exactly how it was 40 years ago. While we're at it, what level of technological intervention turns a band from musicians into talentless hacks? Queen used a lot of multi tracking, which was a relatively new technology at the time, so are they allowed in the musician club with the more natural musicians from a decade or two prior? What about people like Wendy Carlos, who were classically trained musicians at the peak of their game who also pioneered synthesis and electronic music?

[@NuMetalfan1996]

@@theheresiarch3740 Well he doesn’t say that in the video but if you watch his channel that’s his point. He has lots of videos pointing out that modern bands and artists are not impacting culture.

[@elormentary]

​@@NuMetalfan1996 It's unfortunate if that point is being missed. Are we to expect everyone who watched Rick's video to also know his opinions that he's stated in his other videos? If we need to dissect his point by gathering context clues from other videos, the point is incomplete and should be more comprehensive.

[@matthewdennis1739]

​@@NuMetalfan1996That is "a" point Rick has made, it is not "the" point he tried to make in these videos...though tangentially related.

[@NuMetalfan1996]

@@elormentary Well, I will say I don’t think Rick’s video had much to do with the title of said video. I think that is a mistake on Ricks part. So it’s unfortunate that that video blew up and not his other videos better discussing.what the problem is with today’s music landscape.

[@amanbytheway]

boomer vs coomer and now we got this gooner joining the fray

[@mrlevinielsen]

we need a jelqer

[@TheBlackKnight1o1]

BOOMER FIGHT!!!! Also "Joe Biden is a corpse" got me lmao

[@Bloor005]

Fantomo is in his 40s ...hardly boomer. Boomer is a shorthand for Baby Boomer (the generation now in their 70s). Kind of wish people would come up with better descriptions other than "you're old/old fashioned!" Which in themselves are no bad thing. Snob is a better word.

[@gsly6081]

@@Bloor005 Fantano is 38 or 39 i think. But yeah close enough.

[@mirkecWii]

​@@Bloor005fantano is the coomer, rick is the boomer

[@Bloor005]

@@mirkecWii even then Rick aint in his 70s. My point about agist jabs still stands I reckon.

[@Vanhelwig]

This is genuinely the best take on the matter. You’re fair to Beato and Fantano both where applicable and call out the flaws in their positions in good faith. The world needs more critically thinking artists willing to engage ideas with intellectual honesty. Thanks, Mike.

[@wiggy009]

I think Fantano is right that technology isn't inherently the problem but Beato is right that music homogenization is an issue and that technology is being crudely applied in a way which increases the amount of sterile music. Additionally the point that these tools aren’t just being misapplied to rock but is also leading to homogenization in rap and pop is salient and one that Fantano misses. Also I think tik tok negatively impacts music because song writers are now incentivized to create viral "sounds", ten second bits of audio, and the song is just the window dressing to the viral sound that is blasted everywhere. There isn’t as much emphasis on larger composition

[@chalkandcheese1868]

Yeah it's all about creativity and talent, people back in the late 70s said the Fairlight computer would destroy music, but people like Gary Numan and David Bowie used at brilliantly.

[@MrRenatopepin]

You know, you're sitting on a chair in front of your desk. You can rest your whisky glass. We get it buddy, you're "booze loose", "shooting from the hip" thats how cool you're.

[@charlesrocks]

LMFAO at this title. I don't even care anymore. hahahahahahahahha

[@flipOverTheirTables]

The word "timbre", has as good of a relationship with Mike's vocabulary, as pinch harmonics do to Zakk Wylde's solos. :)

[@WhiteBull_33]

Timbre

[@flipOverTheirTables]

@@WhiteBull_33 touché

[@LogosRespeckter]

Tbf that’s kinda par for the course with a general term like that. Musicians have a bad habit of using abstract language regarding art that leaves everyday people like “Jesse what the hell are you talking about?” 😂

[@LogosRespeckter]

“It’s a little too crunchy on the popcorn waves, can we add a bit of slop to it?” That kind of shit, of which I am guilty of as well. 😂

[@clemcadiddlehopper5706]

Boom…here comes the ….cooom…ready or not

[@Marklar3]

Great video. This is point for point almost exactly what I wanted to say about the original videos and the response, but you said it better than I could. I put more weight in the idea that convenience of music makes people feel less passionate about it, as I think I've seen it happening to myself in some ways, but I agree that the other factors you mentioned are likely more important.

[@MrBoltaxa]

I think that rick meant to say that "automating the creative process is limiting people's ability to innovate"

[@BecomeTheKnight]

That's fair! And there's absolutely something to that.

[@Marklar3]

I think that's exactly what BtK is expressing with his steelman of Rick at 8:15, and maybe the most important clarification in the video. Rick just didn't express the idea very well.

[@Ruddline]

Its too easy to pick and choose what someone else already made for you and it leads to samey sounds.

[@MacXpert74]

I don't think it limits people's 'ability' to innovate, but rather takes away the motivation to do so. Why try to come up with something new yourself if it can be automatically created for you. That's the whole point. That's why he says it's 'too easy'.

[@notreally-sf3df]

There's absolutely no automation at all. It's depth, that's it. I can record a drumkit, i've done it for 25 years. I'll spend 10x the time and employ a lot more creativity using a sample. If you've never worked in music, you really need to just understand that you don't fucking understand what's going on at all. I didn't think drumkits were interesting in 1999 and I don't think they're interesting now. There is zero innovation in recording a drumkit or micing an amp, objectively. The people who are, as this person above says "not motivated to innovate" are not even McDonalds chefs in the grand scheme of things, barely home cooks. Don't lump actual people who make records in with those people.

[@sinkfaze]

At least YT had the grace to put your video in the recs for Fantano's video. His video was so ridiculous, you said almost exactly what I was thinking about it.

[@MusicOrLoseItTV]

38:13 Did algorithm even exist before 2015 when I began to commonly hear that term? Was algorithm in control of Yahoo Groups and MySpace (circa 2005-2007) which were just fine with chronological view and upvoting merit?

[@TallicaMan1986]

Yes and no. The Algorithm was a lot more analog and people driven back then. Recently it's digital, people driven and corporate driven.

[@brittig8983]

The algorithm has been around for while but it's become more refined and more focused on marketing than it used to be.

[@BlackrockLobbyist]

30:57 to that point, i would argue that the sterilization in rock is actually BECAUSE of pop and rap. Modern artists are no longer afraid to admit that they like other genres, and thats not a bad thing, but now metal artists are taking queues from pop and rap. Hell, finns video on metalcore the other day pretty much sums that up. I swear to god if i hear one more mid ass rap-metalcore band djenting in a colored room im gonna an hero.

[@gx1tar1er]

I wish you add EDM as well. A lot of metal today is basically based on what the drop is in EDM.

[@mountbrocken]

Strange how rap and hip hop artists aren't however. They may wear our shirts but I don't hear them 'bumpin' slayer out of their cars. Go to any downtown area in a large city and try to listen for something other than hip hop. We do NOT have diversity, we have homogeneity.

[@arifb222]

@@mountbrocken I think it's because metal music usually aren't used for chilling. I like metal but if I'm not actively listening to them, they're just noisy. Meanwhile, due to the nature of their music, many pop, hiphop, and songs from other genres can be used as "chill" music which don't require people's attention to enjoy. You could say that these songs blend well with the background. If I just wanna blank out or chat with friends I'd rather have some bossa nova or jazz playing in the background rather than metal.

[@PCamron90]

5:53 onward, it sounds like, from here, you and Fantano are making the exact same point and don't even realize it.

[@Bedrockbrendan]

I grew up when we used to get albums on tape and record, eventually CD. Overall I think this video makes a lot of good points, but I think we tended not to wear out records that sucked. If a record sucked you might try to bring it back to the store (which I found you could do for 2-3 albums before the store manager put an end to it and just stopped exchanging records), you could trade it with a friend who had another record you wanted (this happened a lot), or you just cut your losses. There were albums I let gather dust because I didn't like them. What buying them meant was you understood each album to have a value and the decision was important, if you liked it, you tended to really listen to it. Whether it means people value music more or not, I am not sure, but I do think we have a habit now of blazing through music, giving it thirty seconds to please us, move and, and forget half of what we listened to. I think the advantage of the physical medium was it helped with remembering (you had the physical album and put it in a player and that really burned these in your mind) and you tended to give them a fair hearing because you spent money on them. Think of how many people don't even listen to albums now. I grew up listening to an album as a work. I think we have moved towards something more like you had before where there is greater focus on singles. I don't necessarily think any of this is better or worse. It just does produce a different experience. And I can understand where Rick is coming from on a lot of this (he is a bit older than me, he is more a child of the 70s I think and I am more a child of the 80s-----but I share a lot of his sensibilities)

[@BecomeTheKnight]

This is an excellent point on physical media I hadn't considered. Thank you for sharing!

[@matthewdennis1739]

I think this is another extension of the issue with unlimited choice. Yes, you are going to give songs less of a chance because you know there is so much else out there that you want to keep looking for something better. I remember cassettes and CDs and I think there is a certain degree of truth to what you're saying, but I don't think I appreciate music less now just because I have more choice and it's easier to consume. The music I'm really into now I think I love more than what I was able to access back then.

[@Fe22234]

I have discovered so much good music that I love now then I ever did back then. I love streaming and discovering. Also I am glad vinyl is still popular it was and still is a great way to experience music. We now have the best of both worlds.

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@Fe22234 Agreed. So much amazing music out there that it blows my mind people don't think anything good has been released since 2000....and yes I've seen/heard people say that. It's just such an ignorant take. Or they'll say yeah of course there's one or two good songs but that's it. I don't know, I can name easily over a hundred artists I think are making great music post -2000.

[@LysergiaBandOfficial]

record it to a tape loser

[@supermegaultraawsome]

I feel like the classism argument stems from Rick's overall point. That music technology has made music easier and thus made it worse. Anthony's point is that just because something is easier does not necessarily mean that the end product is worse and the ease of access to this technology and the low barrier to entry cost wise allows for a greater number of individuals to produce music, especially those worse economic conditions.

[@chalkandcheese1868]

In the 60s and 70s the coolest thing in the world for a young boy to be was a rockstar, more than a movie star more than an athlete, therefore you had a huge spurt in talent. It's just not like that anymore, not even close.

[@joesalyers]

Rick's main point is technology is overtaking even the simple tasks such as being a well rehearsed musician or singer. This is why many live shows today are terrible unless its literally lip-syncing to a karaoke track then it becomes more about the dance moves and light shows. Basically I see it like this, with a pencil I draw OVERWEIGHT STICK PEOPLE 🤣 but if I use Ai to create a painting of someone based on my prompts is it really me making the art anymore and is it ethical for me to claim I am the artist who created the work of art? Nope. Technology is cool but it does drive ART to a souless place in certain aspects.

[@matthewdennis1739]

Yes, that's an issue. It's also not an issue for a lot of amazing artists out there. You're going to naturally get a lot of variance. As was said, technology isn't the issue it's how its being used.

[@user-yk4gd1fl4z]

@@matthewdennis1739 very true until just recently, with AI. When you can spit out a song based on text prompts , that’s where “technology” becomes a very real fucking big problem.

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@user-yk4gd1fl4z Yeah, I hate that. But I also have no idea how you combat that on an industry scale. I still don't think it's an issue for a lot of artists in that there are artists who just aren't going to use AI because they're passionate about their music.

[@user-yk4gd1fl4z]

@@matthewdennis1739 I’d like to think so and hope you are right.

[@shootinputin6332]

I got click baited into clicking this video. But you do make good points, and I do agree that we cannot take someone who began their 'career' on 4chan, seriously. I'd rather channel the boomer energy and yell at clouds with Beato.

[@djacobmadrigal]

I think Beato was saying regarding technology is that if you only use computers to make music and you can’t play an actual instrument you can’t really call yourself a musician. If you like jazz and prog rock or any genre that relies on improvisation, technology inhibits said improvisation.

[@theheresiarch3740]

And that's BS. Music evolves with technology, that's just how it works. As long as human thought and creativity are going into it, that's all that matters.

[@NedJeffery]

If you make something that people like to listen to, you are a musician. I don't give a shit how you make it.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@NedJeffery Really? If you fart into a megaphone and 1 person out of billion thinks it's good that makes you a musician? What an extremely broad and ridiculous definition for musician you have.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@theheresiarch3740There are clearly different types of musicians. Those that suck and those that don't. You can call yourself a "gaming athlete" for playing call of duty at a high level but no normal person will view you in the same vein as Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali.

[@ZalvaTionZ]

As a hypothetical: Lets say there's no digital technology, only pen and paper. If someone writes down a composition on that paper, but can't play an instrument, would you consider them a musician or not?

[@Tylervrooman]

The one point I kinda agree with is that when music is purchased it's valued more. I remember having to buy albums because I was born in 87'. I remember buying albums and didn't like most of the songs. But needing to justify my purchase I listened to the entire album, then the album became a favorite album of mine. Also reading the liner notes exposed me to Charlie Parker and many other musicians I would have never been known about. You don't really get that with streaming unfortunately. Perhaps Spotify could include more information someday... Anyway I appreciate your musings. Have a good day. 👍

[@conormurphy4328]

On the flip side the availability of music is much more diverse now. How many subgenres have developed after music became more accessible both for listeners and musicians.

[@Tylervrooman]

​@@conormurphy4328it's a double edged sword no doubt

[@MaggaraMarine]

Yeah, you listen to the album more closely - you get to really know the entire album. Today it's so easy to skip tracks - you naturally spend less time with the same music. It's a different way of listening. Of course it's a choice you can still make, but having instant access to basically all music out there easily makes you want to skip the "boring songs", and find more and more new songs, instead of spending time on listening to the same tracks many times. I personally liked Rick's closing thoughts. I actually think it was the best part of the video. It is a good thing that we have such an easy access to music. But it makes you listen to it differently. So, I think Rick's point about "listening to the music as if you had just bought the record" was valuable. It naturally makes you listen to it more closely and spend more time with it.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@conormurphy4328Many subgenre's should have never been developed...

[@i_am_florida_man4327]

Fantano lost me when he said the drums on the new Dying Fetus album sounded dull and soulless......dude they sound exactly the same as everything theyve done since reign supreme. Youre just making shit up to sound refined lol

[@fecklessman]

the funny thing is that i got pretty much exactly your steelmanned position of rick's take just from thinking through the original video. i think you're right that this is his actual take and you articulated it much better than he does.

[@OfJaggedRisings]

Rick’s not wrong… We’ve gained over 3 billion people since 1985! Not to mention new technology, which have completely changed the landscape for consumers and creators… For those two reasons alone, the pre-Internet times are the before times which may make it an unfair comparison, but Rick is correct in his assumptions.

[@matthewdennis1739]

There are a lot of ways that Rick is wrong....and a lot of other ways in which he is right. We need to stop oversimplifying the conversation. Absolutely agree that changes in technology, demographics, culture, and economics have completely re-written the music landscape.

[@lightningmonky7674]

Your Marxist rant was a little odd but besides that very enjoyable video

[@themetalhead1463]

How is it Marxist? Mike is the opposite of a Marxist.

[@lightningmonky7674]

@@themetalhead1463 if I recall correctly I think I was commenting on him complaining about Marxism in the vid

[@coder4liberty]

Right. Truly creative people will still do what they do with those tools. It does not reduce their effectiveness at using their talent. It does lower the bar for less creative and talented people but so what? If we still had the radio station/record store/record company gatekeepers limiting what was available for us to consume that would be a problem. We don't. Music is now everywhere. It might be hard to find the good stuff but the problem I have with Rick is that he looks for good music in the wrong places and seems to think "popular" implies "good". I also contend that a non creative person blindly using the tools is not going to last as long making music as a truly talented musician. The advantage of technology as a crutch is short lived. Having said all that eventually Rick did clarify "well I don't mean ALL new music". Listening stardards are higher today which does put musicians under pressure. Singers especially. They have what God gave them period. Over time things like that drove technology. You hear all kinds of stories about classic recordings and how they were done. People look back fondly about how songs like "I'm Not in Love" -- 10cc were done and the above beyond techniques used. The thing is the "good old days" are rarely as good as people remember. I'm a boomer and was a musician and sound engineer for 20 years. Guaranteed most of the engineers who did those crazy things on records which took so much effort NEVER wanted to do that again. Chances are pretty good they talked to company reps for the gear they used and said "you have GOT to make this stuff easier to do" and thus was born the next version of the product, and the next and the next until we got DAWs and plugins and 200 tracks if we want them. Metronomes were invented I don't know how long ago. Click tracks have been used in studios since pretty much the beginning. Some drummers boast about being able to play around a click but not everyone can do that. People today bitch about bands using tracks but I know for a fact in decades prior bands took tape machines with them on tour and did some of the same things in every way they could stretch the technology of the day to do. I sang backups from the FOH position more than once. Nobody knew where the parts where coming from but they were there. If people thought it was just a band going into a room and playing period up until the 2000s they are sadly mistaken. Was it REALLY necessary for Steely Dan records to have ~20 session players on them where nobody knew who actually did the parts in the final product? Maybe. Maybe not. Rarely was there a full sounding song that had a one to one relationship with official band members and instruments on the recordings and whatever could be done was done to make those songs not sound disappointing live. A lot of people have no idea that many hit records were recorded with feminine hygiene products stuck all over the drums. We have products for that now that are easier to use which is a good thing but those sounds back in the day were not the drums just as they are when they were bought in the store. I see some people who think they were. I lived through disco which was also terrible for the same reasons IMO. On the other hand not all music is there to sit down with headphones and listen to so maybe to one extent or another disco got a bad rap. I was in a punk band in the late 70s. The quality based on todays listening standards was crap but that wasn't the point of the music either.Which is one of the reasons why Rick looking at Spotify top _____ lists if he really wants to do in depth music analysis is ridiculous. Sure you have AI stuff in there, the "one guy" with a microphone and algorithms but you also have stuff that is for a completely different audience, maybe not for sitting down to listen to. I just think that if Rick wanted to do more "what makes this song great" sort of analysis (which I don't know we might disagree over the usefulness and value of. I like personally) he might want to ask his audience for those suggestions and not go to Spotify lists to look for them and then bitch about the general state of music because of what he hears there. I find good newer music when I look. I know it exists.

[@SaintKines]

You have to give it to youtubers. They will spend all the time to sit down in front of a camera, rant about whatever or take others to task, spend the time to edit it all and still do exactly what they are calling the other person out for. Fantano said literally nothing even remotely related to Marxism in ANY of the clips you showed. You can't even pretend to distort ANY of what Fantano said as Marxism. Yet you spend a 3rd of the video calling Fantano out (I believe correctly) for putting words into Rick's mouth that he didn't say. Jesus man. Then the irony of telling Fantano to lay off the virtue signaling and touch grass. You're literally the only one in this video that is guilty. Lay off the right wing media, or at least introduce some other points of view into your diet and maybe YOU go touch some grass. Then you can come back and tell us whether or not the Marxism is still in the room with us.

[@davyboy9397]

Anthony's personal views literally spill out into every subject he makes videos about

[@joerojas5448]

5:38 Anthony Fantano apparently does not know "Old Blue Eyes". There was a reason why he was called "One Take Frank". Whether it was movies or music, Frank Sinatra did everything in One Take. So Rick Beato was right on that one. 9:10 As a user of technology even for the start of MIDI, I would use technology to help me write music and even to use for performance (I'm one of those guys who have it difficult to get band members). 12:24 I love that argument you put out .What I would say "perfect music created by imperfect people". 18:28 I agree with your argument about "snapping to a grid", Jrodan Valeriote even talked about that. It does make one a tighter musician (as a guitar player like yourself, play better in the pocket). On the flipside, not all bands don't need to be snapped to a grid. I understand the "Drum Machine" argument with Fantano, but it's not the end all be all. 23:06 Is he serious? His music credo just went out the door! He lost me there. He needs shut up at this point.

[@gx1tar1er]

Honestly if i used Rick's perspective, I bet he would've loved King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard. They have everything that Rick likes & I wish he does more vids like that from them.

[@CidsaDragoon]

Yeah, you've pretty much nailed it. Beato just dumps random thoughts about the mainstream music industry (which is becoming irrelevant now) to boomers who still listen to the same music they did when they were 15. Forgot to add: On the technology making things more complicated part.. I think what Fantano was getting at is that you can set up drums the way you like and go, while with digital you are inundated with choice, which can overcomplicate and slow things down a ton.

[@roboj]

great viewpoint. would actually want to see Boomer Beato respond to this. honestly if he just titled his videos accurately and not over-generalized as a means to bait views, i’d give his glossed over under a rock opinions about modern music a little more consideration.

[@maxb7611]

You didnt need to flex so hard with that demo holy crap 🔥

[@PeterCamberwick]

That was the point of the video. LOL

[@SugarpillProd]

Tbf, the whole 'shower thoughts' argument is a pretty weak cope on your part. Rick clearly set his video up to be some grand think piece or statement, given how scaled up the video production is compared to his usual setup. He just lacks the ability to edit his thoughts, even in post, which is pretty clear when he fumbles his point at 7:30. But that's not really a win for him or an argument that his video should be taken less seriously because it's all 'shower thoughts.' He wanted it to be taken seriously, and I don't think Fantano's response was made in bad faith by doing so. He's just reacting to something that was put out and meant to be taken as 'facts' for the most part, as evidenced even more by Rick's follow-up video.

[@AlexpPresley701]

9:35 the fact that you actually have to rephrase the man's argument is quite saddening. The idea that Rick has been trying to get across for long time now is very simple. But people still don't want to or can't really listen to what the old man says.

[@matthewdennis1739]

It's mostly because Rick is hella bad at formulating an argument and conveying his ideas through the use of words.

[@AndromedaEleven]

23:26 yeah that felt a bit like Fantano copium but from 24:10 onwards it seems that you huffed some copium too because of being triggered by the use of the word “classist”. You accuse him of intentionally misrepresenting Rick to “win moral points” by misrepresenting the dialogue but how are you so sure about his intentions? If you can be in good faith to Fantano in the rest of the video, why can’t you be in that specific part? Fantano said that he admires Rick and is on the good terms with him. He didn’t say that Rick doesn’t understand the plight of a poor musician. I think bringing up classism was a stretch but ultimately he is right in what he meant, that claiming technology making music easier is negative ignores the benefit of a lower entry point for artists. And that Marxist part, aside from being cringe, was also insinuating. Do we really need to label everything as Marxist?

[@wiggy009]

Yeah this was the worse part of Mikes video I think. I did like it otherwise tbh

[@magnusdelectat2826]

That was the part of the video that made me realize that while Mike was doing a great job of elaborating on the points that were made in these videos, he still isn't actually progressing the discussion forward either. I'll admire someone who actually tries to identify solutions with good intentions more than someone who condescends over everyone else while they do nothing.

[@dreamcity7514]

comparing sampling to AI may be one of the worst takes I have ever heard lmao.

[@NickWebbSax]

A thought on Fantano's point about the crap that came out back in the old days... He mentioned terrible, cheesy vocal records (Andrews Sisters, some of the early Doo Wop type stuff - some is great, lots is garbage). That wouldn't happen today. You know why there was a sudden influx of those? Musicians' strikes. Yep. Because you had to have union cards etc to work and record as a musician and therefore charge a rate, when the rates became stupidly low, no musician would work. There was power to be had from having only a select few killer musicians able to cut it as session guys. They pretty much stopped the serious recording industry for 2 years. That can't happen now because everyone thinks they can do it themselves.

[@notreally-sf3df]

This is unbelievably accurate. Objectively, there's never been more collaboration in music across the board.

[@jgrangervikings1]

Beato’s 62. I’m 47. Fantano is 38. People tend to glom onto the type of music they hear in their high school and college years. As time passes, though, music changes-it’s always similar to the past, but with more or less flair, more or less nuanced, more or less changed by what’s going on in the world today. Record labels are all about $$. They release new music that’s similar to what’s been selling well. Beato, like me, is a sad guy. He misses the rock/pop rock of the 70s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s. I do, too. New rock music like that of the 70s, 80s, 90s, just doesn’t sell like it once did, so labels don’t release and promote it much. Fantano likes much of today’s music; he hasn’t fully hit that age-or that proverbial “wall”-where today’s music has passed him by. He’s lucky; usually that age where new music no longer appeals to a person seems to be around 30, but Fantano’s in the music biz, so his age-his wall-has been extended. Within the next 10 years, though, music will continue to change, and Fantano will likely be in the same boat as Beato and me. Long story short: Music technology is always changing, always improving, but that doesn’t mean the users of that tech are less or more inhibited by that tech. It’s just that music changes.

[@nickdoe7770]

It's not about Fantano hitting the wall or not. He's a music critic and general media personality, and his popularity depends on the fact that he defends the current status quo no matter what. He rates a bunch of shitty but popular albums highly so the teens and 20-somethings of today feel validated in their music (not that it's all bad) and keep watching his content. Nothing more to it than that.

[@madamkirk]

Rick used the word Dependance. Depending on your definition of that, I would say he has a different point and you haven't Steel Manned his point.

[@thomasdematteo2281]

Your demo sounds like the computer malfunctioned

[@sydberetta4649]

Mike killing it pointing out the most difficult part of modern music production is choice paralysis 🔥🎸

[@JoseEchoes378]

Oh hi there. That's a really cool profile picture you've got

[@andrewichigo]

I think that ease of access to technology to make music has indeed given access to music creation to people who are bad at it. Sure all art is valid, but not all music is good. So yeah, having tech that can give an awful musician a way to mass produce shitty music, I don't think anyone is the better for it.

[@immortalx50]

ahem.. You mean old-time record companies DIDN'T give access to music creation to ppl who were bad at it?

[@andrewichigo]

@@immortalx50 Some slipped through the cracks but back then the filter was much tighter and great bands actually had great musicians

[@immortalx50]

@@andrewichigo so, there are no great musicians or great bands today?

[@andrewichigo]

@@immortalx50 I don't know what your reading level is, cause I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from my comment. Of course good musicias still exist. But terrible ones have flooded the market, rendering the discovery of good ones severly more difficult. Especially when the "average consumer" of music is just chasing the bad one and thus fed it in a terrible loop of business over art.

[@immortalx50]

@@andrewichigo ah, it's all about the market. Then how come the "new" market is still steered almost entirely by a bunch of big old-time labels? If these labels and platforms didn't permit it, nothing would flood the market. Filling Spotify with slop is desirable for Spotify's owners and their big label buddies (it's well known that there are "slop farmers" e.g. in Sweden that intentionally flood the platforms with dreck) and has little or nothing to do with the advent of affordable home recording and DAWs. If anything, these people feel threatened by new affordable tech.

[@allyourbasearebelongtous2191]

This really is a super thick subject. Beato is correct on a whole lot... but like you said... They're more shower thoughts. Fantano though... that fucking guy man. Can't stand him. Dude is a narcissistic authoritarian. So it's really hard for me to ever agree with anything he says. My bias hurts me there. It's a nuanced subject. Music is a DIRECT study of evolution in real time. To say that people nowadays aren't as into music as say... my generation was... it's correct... but it isn't at the same time. I was born in '83. Going to Sam Goody and getting an album was a ... man... it was a THING. You take the plastic off the CD and examine every inch of the cover. Look at any art, photos, clues to the art... then you open it and examine the booklet for lyrics... art... photos... ART man. Pure PHYSICAL art appreciation. The feel. The smell. Everything makes it a THING. There is none of that if you just stream a song on Spotify. People now are in a sense OVER exposed. So the NOVELTY effect of the music is no longer there. That doesn't mean they don't care as much necessarily... it's the level of care. It's a really difficult subject. I think it will get more involved when we are able to change ourselves with tech. When we can alter our bodies and brains we could really make art even better. Like there's just sounds/sound that humans CANT hear. If we make our bodies capable of hearing infrasound and make it possible to use it in music it would change the whole thing. Or be able to add different senses to music. Make it possible for people to actually FEEL what you felt while writing the song. Evolution in motion man

[@matthewdennis1739]

I have experienced both in my life (born in 89) and I have to say I don't necessarily agree. Maybe it's just me, but I get so much excitement and joy out of finding new music on Spotify and making playlists to share. It's not the same, but its equally enjoyable to me. And I remember cassettes and mowing lawns for money and riding my bike 5 miles to the store and back just to buy for example Hybrid Theory from Linkin Park. And I remember staying up all night with friends downloading the Offspring and Iron Maiden and Social Distortion on dial-up internet😂 I just love music, did then and still do now.

[@thispersoncommented]

I think Fantano’s main problem in this video with arguing points that Rick didn’t make is that he’s also pre-arguing some things that he THINKS Rick’s boomer fan-base will say by interpreting what Rick says. And he’s getting the two confused. Because a lot of the things that he puts in Rick’s mouth are things that while Rick didn’t say them, I could definitely see a decent portion of Rick’s fan base saying them based off of what Rick said. This isn’t a justification of it because yea, Fantano is still arguing a point that doesn’t exist (at least not from Rick) and makes it look like Rick said it. Although at the same time like Mike said throughout this video, it can be kinda difficult to figure out what point Rick IS trying to make because he goes on and on about things that aren’t really relevant to the point he’s actually trying to make in the first place. And then Fantano took Rick’s somewhat incoherent rambling and figured he could make a “haha let’s make fun of boomer guy” video, because he knows his audience would like that.

[@vendasch666]

I think one of the usual misunderstandings is that you can have an opinion on the exact thing and on the other side that any opinion has to be exact. It's apples and oranges.

[@jesseurena5153]

what Rick means is when you have plugins that literally create chords and splice samples and the ability to record so easily. The thought and time it used to take to go into developing skills, your ear and technical abillity is lost. I produced music for 5 years now and I think I spent the first 4 years trying to just get gear and make things easier for myself and get right into putting songs out. I've spent the last year working on training my ear and playing on the piano and like taking time to pause and think when im hearing certain scale degrees and notes to really make decisions about where I want things to go and its made me create way better progressions and melodies. Its like math , if you just get the answer then your missing on the process of how to get the answer which makes you smarter.

[@user-yk4gd1fl4z]

Bingo. Having to be less musical , to the point where we are at now , can never be a good thing. Keep being musical dude !

[@notreally-sf3df]

This is a braindead take. I use all of those tools and my process is 100x more innovate, complex and creative than it would be if i put mics in front of things and recorded a band.

[@Owlr4ider]

Really appreciate this video. It's nice to have a level headed discussion on KZbin for a change rather than trying to pigeonhole people's thoughts and trying to forcibly disagree with whatever they have to say without actually trying to understand what it is they were trying to say and where they were coming from. I only wish more reaction type videos on KZbin were made like this... Anyway good job and a very welcome sight on the KZbin landscape.

[@thedrummerdude2431]

Logic Pro just came out with a feature where i can use AI to write a bass, keyboard and drum part in MIDI and just scroll through presets to get the sound i want. Chat GPT generates lyrics in an instant and ACE studio lets me input MIDI and lyrics and generate perfect vocal parts. And thats how some of current tech can styphile creativity

[@notreally-sf3df]

I've been doing this for over 20 years fulltime. I'm using commercial AI every day now and I literally feel more creative than ever.

[@jerrywemhoff]

Fantano's right about time lost vs time saved, especially with drums. What would take 3 days in the right room and a real kit takes me at least 2 weeks building drums in midi, then it takes even longer to try to make those drums sound real. This comes down to budget.

[@GeneralMiller92FIN]

It seems like that most of the criticism is coming from the metal musicians (Up the Irons!). Question for everyone. You do realize that the genre of music what you are playing is so niche that the Rick wasn’t even talking about it - even less thinking about it. His channel is not only about the rock and metal music. It’s the bigger picture. When Rick is sometimes speaking about e.g. The Beatles. He is not speaking about it as the “most popular 60s rock band” but as the famous 60s pop-band, since it was the most popular music during their time. He is always speaking about music in very general level, so some wanna be progressive metal musician (like me) shouldn’t take this offensively. “Yes, but I am different, and I am making unique music with the Archetype: John Petrucci!”. Most of the people don’t care about the shreddy solos and 10mins long instrumentals. He is speaking about big business and the industry. What he is speaking about is how majority of the music has been in stand still at least since the emergence of Tik Tok and songs like Despasito. An era dominated by 5 second videos and smartphone speakers. Every year people have less knowledges about music, because every new generation has consciously heard less of it. Everything is just social media noise. Record companies love the current status quo since they don’t need to invest in high production. It just needs to be good enough for video usage. Billie Eilish only used Apple laptop and 1 microphone when she was making one of her albums (and her style is surprisingly unorthodox compared to the rest of the copy paste latino pop songs currently in top 10 of Spotify). Big record labels are not interested about creating something new. But what record labels are really interested about is investing in AI. AI cannot create anything new, it can only replicate already existing data by machine learning. AI will replace everything. Couple of decades ago, record companies fired all the studio musicians when programmable virtual instruments became available. With AI they can finally get rid of the expensive singers, since it seems like that even the autotuned singers are taking too much of their time and royalties. Let me tell you. That after we are all gone, Taylor Swift will still be making new music in 2112 and jumping in the music videos as she were only 30 years old, because it’s all fake. So can someone honestly say that the music industry is currently in better place than what it used to be. Yes, there is unicorns like Polyphia and Mateus Asato but those are too tiny to make any difference.

[@astralandreid]

2112, I see what you did there

[@glennandadriansrocktalk]

Sinatra had no autotune. :) And, had to get it right or the whole take had to be scrapped. How many working artists are that good?

[@dlwn4jsi7n2jc8]

You can't prove that the ability to sing without an autotune is better than using an autotune.

[@glennandadriansrocktalk]

@@dlwn4jsi7n2jc8 yes I can. :) Check out Fil from Wings of Pegasus, his whole channel is dedicating to proving that very point with an audio spectrometer.

[@dlwn4jsi7n2jc8]

@@glennandadriansrocktalk all these "proofs" are based on the calculations of what music is supposed to sound good for all people, because it is what all these "experts" were taught in their musical schools and universities. The problem is simple - regular people like those artists who are supposed to be "bad" according to the academical researches. You should understand that these musical standard are based on the music, not the other way around. The actual music came into being before music theory.

[@glennandadriansrocktalk]

@@dlwn4jsi7n2jc8 do you know what a spectrometer does?

[@dlwn4jsi7n2jc8]

@@glennandadriansrocktalk yes, it allows to create a spectrogram (if we talk about its usage in music)

[@GMWhiting]

I find Anthony has worse takes and content than Rick, and this video kinda hammers in that point. And anything else he's posted really lol

[@magnusdelectat2826]

Mike agreed with many of the points that Anthony made in his video while the only thing he said about Rick was that he's a boomer who can't articulate himself. I genuinely don't see how Anthon comes off worse here.

[@AndromedaEleven]

@@magnusdelectat2826 yeah Mike is like “leave the poor old man alone, he doesn’t get it anymore” whilst shitting on Fantano because how dared he directly address the points made in Ricks video.

[@arifb222]

@@AndromedaEleven You kinda missed this guy's point too.

[@SnakePit6517]

7:06 I can. This is the same guy who claimed that the song Rich Men North of Richmond was about the Confederacy, talks shit about Destiny, yet refuses to debate him, did a “review” of Kanye West’s Vultures, where 90% of the review he didn’t even talk about the music, and allegedly uses the KZbin copyright system to take down reuploads of his interview with Sam Hyde. So yeah, I can buy that Fantano is that stupid. 😂

[@rockoroll9440]

When is Glenn Fricker joining this turmoil?

[@gx1tar1er]

ngl his perspective will be almost identical to Rick. Not to mention he's also a producer, an audio engineer, & into old-school metal.

[@rockoroll9440]

@@gx1tar1er yeah, that's true. Still, I find Rick's video as a simple warning for new generations. Like "don't forget where all of this is coming from". His video title is also a big click bait 🪤

[@ryanshinermusic]

7:10 “I struggle to believe that you’re that stupid, Fantano.” I don’t just because that’s his brand. He appeals to that portion of Reddit that just freaks out over weird stuff and considers that enough to be a sophisticated take. An example: Ed Sheeran had some one-off comment in an interview that said something to the effect of “we don’t really need critics now because music is free, you can make your own take” and Fantano had (I think) a 10+ minute video freaking out about that comment. Regardless of how you feel about Ed Sheeran, his quote was such a mundane take that no one could really argue or get upset about it.

[@perlundgren7797]

That was quite possibly the mildest case of someone "freaking out" I've ever seen.

[@Ruddline]

Proud of Sheeran for never taking his bait that one 6 month period of Fantano trying to Drake him.

[@boothby8288]

I don't think Rick's point was 'being difficult = better'; I could be wrong, but I think the point was that as a thing becomes easier to produce, the 'muscles' used to produce it begin to atrophy. For example, when the USA was founded, the founders were escaping what they perceived as harsh oppression and injustice, and were perfectly willing to do the hard work on their own farms to maximize their freedoms, but those guys had great great grandkids who enjoy all the luxuries of that hard work without having to actually do any of it (hired out, out-sourced to grocery stores, etc) - once the hard work is unappreciated, it dies, and the luxuries subsequently follow suit. Maybe the argument is wrong - time will tell. But I think there are arguments to be made that a lack of creativity has been a problem for a while now - exacerbated by the shear volume of white noise in the space - because of the ease of creation... Just my $0.02 though...

[@magnusdelectat2826]

I don't think the founding fathers were the ones doing most of the work on their farms dude.

[@boothby8288]

@@magnusdelectat2826 lol, fair point.

[@perlundgren7797]

Does that mean Rick's career has been affected by a century of atrophy, or where do we draw the line for when things started being too easy?

[@boothby8288]

@@perlundgren7797 That's the real question - hard to say exactly, because all of this is pretty subjective. We're still 'close enough' to the tougher times to relate to what was created then, and not far enough removed to have completely gone off the rails (in my opinion), but I think given enough time, we're looking at an 'Idiocracy' moment in music where everything is just soulless and perfectly replicable with no effort. Meaning, it just can't and won't be appreciated - because why would it be?

[@perlundgren7797]

@@boothby8288 My guess is we'll have the Rick Beatos of the future going "in the 20s, we still had proper music", but time will tell. 🙂

[@RB-oc7ti]

Rick actually likes alot of music created today. He’s incredibly open minded and likes numerous different and eclectic genres. He’s not ur typical ‘boomer’. He’s very well versed and informed.

[@Just_B0red]

Yeah, he doesn't like mass produced slop that comes out and 500 new "artists" and "musicians" that pop out of nowhere with the most generic copy-pasted 1-hit wonder songs ever, but most of his criticisms and reviews of new songs are unbiased and fair.

[@dneuens]

I haven't watched either video, but hasn't Beato effectively made this video like every other week for the past 6 years?

[@dneuens]

Jesus, leave it to Fantano to make crotchety boomering sound semi-sensible.

[@lw3764]

I think Fantano was trying to point out that Rick has been in a pretty cushy position with looking at things through a traditional producer point of view. Just looking at Beato's studio tells me the guy hasn't had to make music on a shoestring in a loooong time.

[@thewhiterabbit8581]

As a gen z, who likes rick's channel (and a lot of the old bands he likes to harp on), was rick's video an insult? A part of me felt like it was

[@mr.brenman2132]

Gen Z needs to be insulted more and according to some people I'm apart of that generation.

[@arifb222]

Maybe less of an insult and more of a rambling due to his nostalgia. And perhaps his "insults" were directed toward the popular music rather than music in general. But, as mentioned in this video, Rick doesn't articulate his points well.

[@mr.brenman2132]

@@arifb222 It was a fact. Modern music is horrible.

[@arifb222]

@@mr.brenman2132 Art is subjective, and "horrible" can also be defined by a plethora of variables. And I doubt you are completely knowledgeable about the music repertoire of the entire world back in the day and in the present. Therefore, your statement remains debatable. It doesn't help that you also did not elaborate on it. P.S. I'm currently wondering whether you'll put words into my mouth as most YT debaters tend to do.

[@mr.brenman2132]

@@arifb222 So if I record my diarrhea spell and one person likes it out of 8 billion that means it's equal to Abbey Road. That's very logical.....

[@BluesAuditoryBoogaloo]

I too will have a drink for this topic

[@mrbungle3310]

i mean i haven't heard enough ppl actually criticise Anthony fantano and how he actually sounds unprofessional for the amount of audience he has...i mean the rick stuff has been there for a few years now and we know it and we love him in a way for that...the melon meanwhile seems to just do reddit rage bait

[@conormurphy4328]

My criticism is I think he’s wrong about 70% of the time

[@hitman9198]

​@conormurphy4328 try like 95 percent of the time. He gets off from being the Anti common take.

[@fabiors10]

@@conormurphy4328 Really, I find it disturbing that so many people follow a guy with so many dumb takes on music and somehow think his opinions matter on the subject.

[@itsallgoodman4108]

@@fabiors10 contrarianism sells

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@conormurphy4328How is he right 30% of the time.

[@vjmarak]

"Shower thoughts"? Could be he's playing both ends against the middle, with an understanding that there can be more than one answer to a question, depending on extenuating circumstances inherent in every case, BUT that the overarching issue is what this art form is all about: CREATIVITY. Sometimes you just have to have lived through an era to fully grasp the nuances that aren't necessarily passed down through generations. Do not dismiss (the idiotic phrase) Boomers, simply because you have no real idea of their involvement in history that was in the making.

[@user-gt7yf2nv9i]

Rick Beato is a musician and a producer. Fantano is youtuber. Fuck what he says. We live in a world dominated by hip hop and emusic where the musicianship is very limited. Poor harmonies, repetitive beats, etc. DJs and rappers aren't musicians.

[@DennisChary]

In defense of Fantano,but not his points of view, he DOES play a bass guitar. He may not be as accomplished musically as Beato, but to say that he is only a "youtuber' is unfairly slighting him.

[@nickg2211]

Rappers it's not musicians it's wild because 2010s and 2000s its when hip hop more innovative and experimental than 90s. for example Kendrick Lamar and Kanye west create one of best album of all time to Pimp a butterfly, good kid maad city, etc and mbdtf, the college dropout, etc

[@CorporalASH]

Another boomer using an authority fallacy. What else is new

[@elektra8535]

"Rappers aren't musicians" lmao

[@SenatorJaiz]

I had 10 gutars, but I dropped one and snapped the headstock. I can now say that my "Ba-Roke" guitar is less creative than my intact guitars.

[@user-yk4gd1fl4z]

You here all week should I try the lamb ?

[@TheLarknessMonster]

Fantano has worse hot takes than Rick from what I've watched. Fantano wiffs quite often and pretends to be objective and logical about it while completely missing the original point.

[@lightningmonky7674]

That actually might be true, plus he loves rap music, like a lot, which means I have to ignore a ton of his videos. Like I don't give AF about the drake and lame-are beef rn. That said I think fantano is far more entertaining than beeato

[@user-yk4gd1fl4z]

@@lightningmonky7674really ? Fantano pays attention to sums shit like that. Well , I will have to check out how channel then lol

[@Azathoth43]

It's a very nuanced discussion that will 100% always devolve into a concern of the ages of the people making it.

[@JHAN1212]

Fantano isn't a dumb person, but he is so aggressively politic brained and culturally tribal that he just constantly dishes out trash takes.

[@hitman9198]

I guarantee you are smarter than him. Alot

[@GoatOfTheMountains]

No, he is in fact a dumb person.

[@senatorsheevpalpatine3712]

You’re dumb for thinking that way

[@mr.brenman2132]

I disagree. I think he's a very dumb person. You described a very dumb person.

[@user-yk4gd1fl4z]

Never heard of him till this video. Let me guess , he is a left’Tard ?

[@shawnok1]

I’m 50, been playing nearly 40 years. I’m more creative now than ever. Technology, along with relatively low prices has allowed me to put together a home studio that would’ve been very difficult to pull off 20 years ago.

[@roguetrader2000]

Fantastic video. Here's more boomer thoughts. Remember Fantano's worst album of the year was A7X's LIBAD, even worse than Tom McDonald's race baiting garbage. That's because he hates the idea of successful white guys noodling in the studio for literally years to put out something they think is perfect and their fans are gonna buy, no matter what Fantano thinks about it. This reminds me of a question I've pondered for a while. Consider Steely Dan's infamous process of bringing in dozens of session guys to eventually create Aja. Is there even a modern equivalent? In 2024, even the most OCD afflicted creator could not spend that amount of time and money making music. My theory, listening to the Mainstream Rock Chart/Octanecore world we have now, is bands are making music with the same guitar tones and drum sounds because the infinite variety of options at their fingertips overwhelms their creative instincts. Sure there's people like Daughtry just chasing what's "commercial", but in the 70s and 80s it was the studios forcing that on everybody. If one guy works for three weeks on a song that ends up sounding exactly like Bad Omens, isn't that just a lack of creativity?

[@jamestownstudios8543]

They lack “vision” You used to have to find and capture a sound, but you knew what you wanted.

[@Mrs.Magix58]

typical boomer making dumb arguments.

[@theopinson3851]

The veil was lifted on Beato for me when he did his analysis of Smells Like Teen Spirit. He tries to analyze the “chord progression” and brings up all of this stuff about upper extensions over a blues riff.

[@JonnyHorseman]

Reminder: Fantano likes WAP unironically

[@bartekkaczmarek2865]

and?

[@JonnyHorseman]

@@bartekkaczmarek2865 You really wanna take him seriously?

[@seanbeadles7421]

It took until his wap review to realize he’s cringe?

[@bartekkaczmarek2865]

@@JonnyHorseman yeah? just because he likes a song that i dont like doesnt mean im going to discredit all of his musical knowledge. going the same route as you, i can say that mike likes barbie girl unironically, does that mean i wont take him seriously?

[@JonnyHorseman]

@@bartekkaczmarek2865 No. His credibility as a reviewer should at least be questioned considering how he unironically praises that song, you can have a lot of musical knowledge and still be objectively wrong with specific songs. How am I supposed to take him seriously after praising WAP, while at the same time bashing objectively good albums/songs because they are made by someone with the wrong politics?

[@areyouterryfied]

Is the wide rhythm starting at 13:02 double-tracked? If not, how did you get it that wide? Thanks so much!

[@bassplayer2011ify]

Frank Sinatra easy to record? Ok Fantano lets see you record a full live orchestra with 50s tech. Good luck.

[@jbru7035]

He didn't say that. He said Frank wasn't involved in all the work that went into recording, but Rick basically said the same thing, so he was responding to something that was never said.

[@andrewpchurch]

Aren’t you just shower-thought-ing? Isn’t that what everyone does? And isn’t Fantano doing that as well? What’s the difference?

[@ytubeanon]

I agree with Rick Beato, music has definitely gotten worse, it's almost valueless now, younger generations have been raised to treat it like water. Why bother learning a guitar or instrument when singing is all that matters, the computer will generate the music. It's not just rock nostalgia, Public Enemy, NWA, RunDMC would not exist in this era... Bill Maher had a good end rant about this: lyrics used to be like "we ain't got much, but at least we got each other", now hiphop is too full of materialism, worshipping money, butts, cars, reputation, etc... people used to live and die by the idea of 'selling out', now it's seen as a desirable thing - or - technically it doesn't exist anymore cuz the concept doesn't even make sense to newer generations

[@oldcat7]

If anything, technology has affected music because it has opened up an entire world of new hobbies and interests. People still clearly love music, but maybe not as much at an early age or maybe not as much as they would have in the past. It would not surprise me in the least if there were fewer music "addicts" out there nowadays. Today's music buffett is still good eats! But it's also a part of a much larger selection than we've ever had before in terms of entertainment. I dont believe this is the singular reason or the main reason for the shift, but I have to imagine that it has played a significant role.

[@erix5184]

The homogenization 1000% affects pop the most. Yeah there's some generic rock but there's ALWAYS been generic rock. Shit, AC/DC has been making the same song for over 40 years now. Every song I've been unfortunate enough to hear off Taylor Swift's new album sounds the damn same. Rick needs to take a break from the Spotify top 10 and top 20 playlists and listen to some slightly less mainstream music.

[@nietzscheankant6984]

Idk, I feel like mainstream rock is basically dead because it became too sterile, safe, and generic. "Modern metal", ie. metalcore and/or deathcore, on the other hand seems to be rather popular, even though I find the music - sterile, safe, and generic. I do find value in evaluating mainstream music (and the related phenomena etc.) - it does affect people and society in many direct and indirect ways, I believe, not to mention the artists and bands out there.

[@j800r_aswell]

It's not the tool, it's how it's used. Take autotune/pitch correction as an example. Introduced and first heard in the mainstream as an effect, now overused to buggery by the industry so that any semblance of humanity is utterly terminated. Incorporating technology into music only helps innovation and pushes things forward. Over-dependence on technology and using it as an excuse to be lazy and a substitute for real creativity is harmful. It's like how smartphones aren't the enemy. People without self control and can't stay off social media are the problem. Technology isn't the problem. We are.

[@Lee-hs4pv]

So we got Beato ,bald guy and rambling incoherent, drunk guy.

[@stephenmccarthy1795]

A lot of Rick’s friends in the music business agree with him about what was wrong with the music business. He recognized how expensive it was for musicians to make an album objected to how the studio system was treating musicians. As a producer he worked hard to help musicians to put out good music without going broke.

[@MagCynic]

Beato's core arguments are 100% correct, though. 1. Music is way too easy to create. 2. People aren't as interested in music as they used to be.

[@arifb222]

Relatively accurate points with highly questionable explanations aren't usually received well, e.g., "The world is round. Ancient humans must've carved it into a sphere throughout the years. I might be wrong though."

[@Just_B0red]

The fact that there are AI "musicians", and "bands" nowadays is even wilder thing, it just makes it a copy-paste machine instead of a process to make something.

[@cooljp1531]

Nah, younger guys just pissed that Rick is right. Same thing happened in movies and video games. The more technology advances the more people rely on it and forget it's about writing good stories ( in movies ) or good songs with good lyrics. So what we get is nonsense like you just described. Some bullshit effects without substance, or people showing off their practice licks and passing them off as actual playing ( insert any prog metal band or your favorite instagram guy name here )

[@mainsailsound983]

Fantano gives way too much credit to really mediocre music

[@andy0905]

The last charlie xcx album…

[@MarkDrager]

I'm 41 so I'm certainly not a boomer, but I've become a fan of Rick Beato over the past year. I love music history and music theory, the stories behind the songs and the artists. But I'm not a musician. I have zero background and experience in this stuff. The reason why Rick is great is, he doesn't get caught up in all of the technical stuff. He seems to talk more about the stories, the lessons, and his take on things. This is extremely helpful for people without the background. People like me. I was actually quite disappointed when I watched the commentary on Rick's video. I thought, "oh, I guess Rick doesn't know what he's talking about." Which kinda sucked. So I really appreciated your breakdown. You seem to strike a really thoughtful and balanced perspective. Thanks! (Edited for typos)