DESTROYING the Metal Subgenres Tier LIst

Most metal subgenres don't need to exist.
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[@vulgarschool]

The one thing we can agree on: no one hates metal more than a metalhead Edit: This was meant as a joke. Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously, chill

[@raimondsstokmanis1892]

WHY WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING SO CONTROVERSIAL YET SO BRAVE

[@lred1383]

Love and hate are extremely close emotions, after all. Both imply caring about something a great deal, obsessing over it, and that is a more unifying characteristic than just having a generally positive or negative outlook

[@thinktankdetective8307]

I hate when people say things like this and act like this is a great revelation, the reason why is because if someone cares about somethings they wouldn’t want aspect of that thing to be bad. The opposite of saying this is that somebody who doesn’t care about something, probably doesn’t hate it (which is an obvious statement).

[@williamdunnill7996]

@@lred1383 very metal comment

[@lred1383]

@@williamdunnill7996 i'll take that as a compliment

[@MatttheWitcher]

Im sure this video won't piss anyone off. Everyone will be satisfied and happy at the opinion of mike the music snob.

[@lightningjimmyjoejohnson8499]

Yes, just like the classic rock tier list

[@bengorman4045]

Top 10 famous last words

[@RockLibertyWarrior]

It is hard to watch some of his videos, sometimes I have to stop them half way through because his smugness and snobbery annoys the ever living hell out of me.

[@jordieg-us4ee]

@@RockLibertyWarrior I'm getting to this stage too, he seems to like what he likes and has no consideration or tolerance for anything outside that very small box

[@craigusselman546]

Well at least he didnt critisize nipple pinching fart metal music if he did is really be fuckin steamed!

[@WillmacLMCD]

My man just threw all the black metal in the dumpster in the first minute

[@philpennington826]

LOL Well most black metal bands sound like they use a dumpster for a recording studio anyway, so.....

[@Nicolas1909_]

@@napo7866 Do u listen to WankTheater per chance?

[@Ramanahayes]

Where it fucking belongs

[@MollymaukT]

if you don't invent a new sub-sub-subgenre that only your band plays are you even a real black metal band?

[@antontipura2686]

Literally the best metal genre. Idk how can someone call themselves metalhead and not listen to doom, black and death metal. Like, what can you listen to at that point?

[@hellhound1836able]

grindcore is an established genre thats about 35 years old. definitely valid imo

[@geetarplayer3611]

Goregrind too, but only carcass, every other goregrind band is kinda shit

[@dannywilson3226]

Pornogrind is king 💯 like raped by elephants by torsofuck 😂 I feel like the grind genres are just garage slam bands that explicitly, metaphorically and physically, talk about whatever it is in front of the “grind” in the genre

[@bitterman3072]

@@geetarplayer3611 Carcass is death metal, the first two albums were goregrind and grindcore for sure but they are established as a death metal band.

[@geetarplayer3611]

@@bitterman3072 i’m talking about the first two carcass albums, after the third album they went in the death metal direction

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@geetarplayer3611 Except Exhumed and Repulsion. Exhumed and Repulsion are goregrind and they are awesome.

[@Ronnie.Raymond]

The creator of this tier list really forgot to include avant-garde suicidal groovecore? Bloody fucking hell, man 🤦‍♂️

[@nandoxus]

This video was deliberately made to be controversial, triggering and condescending. And it succeeded to be exactly that.

[@burninflames]

It made me cringe actually.

[@Iexecutioner]

Nah I think it just outed him as an ignorant alcoholic crybaby

[@npanic628]

It's nothing of those things it's just stupid... I don't know who this guy is, why he has so many subscribers and if he even listens to metal... I mean a lot of those subgenres are indeed idiotically redundant but putting stuff like Melo death or old-school death metal into the trash? What? Those are the basics right after you have gotten fed up with Metallica, Iron Maiden and SOAD... Eventually you'll get into Death, CoB or Cannibal Corpse, any metalhead loves at least one of those 3... Just to name 3....... Not to speak of Wintersun, probably some of the best compositions in contemporary music as a whole - Melo death..

[@futurebreedmachine9302]

@@npanic628 He put Melo death in A tier.

[@laurisaarinen1126]

For me it was just straight laughter for the first part, and "hmm that's interesting" for the rest of it. Also, apparently i have a pretty good taste, although more just those old, ground-breaking genres than much anything new. Plus most of my favorites here are the "least metal" stuff, but then again i'm not even a metalhead. I'm just a music fan in general.

[@phil_k_96]

Putting tech-death in S whilst saying he doesn't like most tech-death is peak Mike.

[@coffeman3575]

Imagine ranking extreme metal generes without even knowing them

[@stevsh89]

Throws Grunge in the F tier as not metal. Puts hardcore and post-hardcore in A tier despite both being punk sub genres.

[@ToveriJuri]

Punk subgenres that have heavily influenced modern metal. Well at least hardcore.

[@tardzone5150]

Ehh really the only cases Grunge has is Melvin's, Alice in Chains and Soundgarden

[@thomo2127]

Majority of metal Is influenced by hardcore

[@sonofbelz]

Man if you think Metal has a shit ton of redundancy, try going down the EDM genre rabbit hole, it's fuckin' nuts.

[@smievil]

what is the origin of *core music?

[@lightningmonky7674]

Probably shit like black flag where they sped up punk and made it heavier . The first good core genre was probably grind then the REALLY good stuff started coming out in the early 2000s and since hasn't showed signs of stopping, it stays fresh. Deathcore and metallic hardcore are really great nowadays. Angelmaker is a great modern deathcore band and knocked loose and world of pleasure are awesome modern metallic hardcore/metalcore bands

[@ToveriJuri]

​@@lightningmonky7674 Electronic music has it's own "core". Isn't EDM what the original post was about?

[@lightningmonky7674]

@@ToveriJuri it does, hardcore and happycore I believe

[@bMt5553]

Happycore? I’m kind of interested to hear that now, also, that sounds like a nice name, but also also, I laughed so hard when I heard that

[@eashanshenai4980]

Mike during this whole video: "I don't like (insert genre name) a lot, but when it hits, man it hits hard!"

[@EmperorTigerstar]

3:35 Heavy Metal is the first version of metal music and the most straight forward (Black Sabbath as an example) Proto metal would be before metal and has elements that would later become essential to metal but is still not metal. (Examples including bands like Deep Purple or a few Zeppelin or ACDC songs).

[@napstatem8148]

I love you

[@texangem]

wow i didnt expect you here lol

[@laremare]

Proto metal would also include some Hendrix and Cream songs, and Born to Be Wild by Steppenwolf is pretty much THE proto metal song (even includes "heavy metal" in the lyrics).

[@elpolitemexa2272]

That's just hard rock

[@nemesis8626]

So classic rock then those bands you just said are rock bands so why label proto metal? It's nonsensicle

[@daveataway1952]

Glam Metal definetly deserves S Tier, since it's hilarious. On one hand you can laugh at and enjoy Steel Panther. On the other hand you can laugh at Motley Crüe failing to play their own songs live.

[@apolodord1439]

Mick Mars is an amazing shredder, Tommy Lee is a good drummer and Nikki is a solid bass player & great song writer. The only weak element in the band is Vince at the moment, but we all know vocalists are the first ones to show signs of aging.

[@cristianconnolly2709]

I really dont care about their performance live now, but their studio albums have some great songs, Mick Mars is underrated when it comes to riffs.

[@daveataway1952]

@@cristianconnolly2709 I don't care at all about them, I occasionally listen to Saints of Los Angeles and that's it. I just wanted to do jokes, no need to argue about it :D

[@josephstalin322]

@@apolodord1439 nah, Vince is the best vocalists of all time, who else do you know, tho can sing in 8 languages at the same time?

[@apolodord1439]

@@josephstalin322 90% of black metal vocalists

[@jordieg-us4ee]

Funk metal is 100% a thing. Surprised Mike didn't know this

[@superstarthomas]

Isnt that's Candiria''s thing along with some Jazz?

[@jordieg-us4ee]

@@superstarthomas yeah, Rob trujillos Infectious Grooves too, & Primus etc.

[@RyanRediger66]

Turnstile is kind of turning into this. Probably more like funky hardcore punk

[@honeycomblord9384]

You could call Faith No More funk metal, too

[@PM-vv3uc]

@@RyanRediger66 Where does Turnstile sound like Funk Metal? lol

[@V.F.D.DaleSalvador]

I still think "Experimental" and "Progressive" are different. More so in the Outcome then the Idea itself. Something like Dream Theater: A Change Of Seasons and SWANS: She Loves Us are VERY DIFFERENT SOUNDS, despite having the "Same Thing".

[@jovan9989]

Agreed, and it can also go into the post metal with bands like Neurosis who can arguably be in both but are neither. There are differences in ambience in the feeling of and in telling the story which is a big part of Progressive music, and i l know this is done all for entertainment but if he isn't really well versed in these genres then he shouldn't be so dissmisive.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

That's a fair argument. I can see that on the rock side of things. In the metal world I can't think of a metal band that is experimental and not "prog" atm, but i definitely get what you mean.

[@V.F.D.DaleSalvador]

@@BecomeTheKnight How about the Melvins? I don't know a LOT about them, but I've listened to a couple albums and a bunch of random songs from others.

[@connerstines1578]

I generally use it for anything progressive that reaches truly inaccessible status, something like Frank Zappa or to a degree Primus, or Mr. Bungle.

[@V.F.D.DaleSalvador]

@@connerstines1578 Definitely Mr. Bungle and I can see Frank Zappa (from what little I listened to) I don't think Primus is Experimental. Especially when we're talking about Mr. Bungle, Swans, Frank Zappa (Songs like Dangerous Kitchen to be specific)

[@superrookie-1]

Tbh there should a distinction between Japanese and European Power Metal because those two are very distinct

[@BecomeTheKnight]

YES. The 2 cultures inject their own music theory intuitions that yeild consistently audible differences.

[@elpolitemexa2272]

Japanese is the one that sounds like a metal slug soundtrack isn't it?

[@eldritchkaiju5829]

US Power Metal also has its own flavor, influenced by thrash and speed metal

[@robwalsh9843]

I personally like US power metal better. Manilla Road was a damn good band.

[@eldritchkaiju5829]

@@robwalsh9843 Virgin Steele as well

[@EmperorTigerstar]

Also, 6:10 - Blackgaze is definitely its own genre because it is a fusion of black metal and shoegaze music. It actually does have a reason to stand as its own genre.

[@ZauTa]

it's part of post-black-metal

[@EzioMonty117]

Agreed. I don't particularly care for blackgaze but there are enough bands in the genre and enough distinct characteristics to make it worthwhile on its own

[@thess6327]

Lol Tigerstar's here

[@michaelberresford4291]

Wtf is shoegaze!!?

[@ZauTa]

@@michaelberresford4291 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmbGXoNvncegeMk

[@Brutaldeathkingpin]

Can we stop having sub genres based of lyrical concepts

[@BecomeTheKnight]

YES

[@FISHYFILMPRODUCTIONS]

Could not agree more.

[@EzioMonty117]

Case in point, Pirate and viking metal

[@Bodge18]

@@EzioMonty117 Pirate metal actually sounds different though

[@Brutaldeathkingpin]

@@Bodge18 It's power metal with an accordion

[@Br00tz966]

Wild how "Mike The Music Snob" knows so little about several entirely valid metal subgenres. You don't get to be a snob If you're not informed.

[@nicholaslichtenberger4802]

The names brutal death metal, slam, old school death metal, and dsbm are genuinely good differentiations for sub-genres

[@sagnikdev5378]

Yup, and guy includes Prog thrash and ignores prog metalcore

[@mega_jonne1546]

dsbm is 50/50 a subgenre and not

[@vonbl3]

He rates New Wave of British Heavy Metal but removes DSBM, Brutal Death, and Grindcore, genres that are night and day apart from their godfather genre? He's either trying to be controversial on purpose or straight up ignorant. It wouldn't bother me if he was just unaware but he's talking as if those things are facts. Posing clown.

[@Klabbity_Kloots]

If you put "Black" first, the acronym becomes "BDSM".

[@user-gd1no3gf6d]

@@vonbl3 honestly, it's just that Mike isnt a good source of knowledge on metal subgenres. Dude dont even understand stuff how Brutal/Slam Death, Groove Metal, Death-Doom, Funk Metal and NDH are real genres when they're known genres, it's not like they're as underground as Avant-garde / Dissonant Death Metal (which is not THAT underground too)

[@ZauTa]

sub-sub genres are useful imo. Take doom metal for instance, someone who likes Candlemass, Solitude Aeturnus, Procession, and Crypt sermon (epic doom bands) might not like Thergothon, Skepticism, Bell Witch, or Shape of Despair (funeral doom bands). and fans of either of those genres might not like Sleep, Electric Wizard, Witchthroat Serpent, Weedeater, or bongzilla. these groups have very little in common besides being slow to mid tempo metal, but inside the groups they share influences and musical style

[@snow15243]

Agreed.

[@machinismus]

I know right? Sometimes I'm just in the mood for a really specific sound and niche subgenre classifications are useful for discovering new bands.

[@mr.echo24]

I love Candlemas but I also very much enjoy My Dying Bride and bands like that. But I get what you're saying for sure.

[@robwalsh9843]

You also have sludge bands like Buzzoven, Eyehategod, Crowbar, etc. Music that's much nastier, filthier and has more of a hardcore punk vibe. It's basically all descended from Black Sabbath, but there are variations. This is why I disliked Finn McKenty's recent video on stoner and doom metal. He didn't bother doing any research.

[@mr.echo24]

@@robwalsh9843 Is Melvins sludge?

[@SefniAsheforr]

I get what you're saying, but I think Melodic Death Metal is a fair title. Early Amorphis, early In Flames, and Dark Tranquillity are very different from Cannibal Corpse. Yet, I actually think Death had some albums that did straddle the melodic line more, like The Sound of Perseverance.

[@SefniAsheforr]

@NaPo7 I agree 100%

[@Gregbaltzer]

I love Death metal, but I'm not really a fan of Melodic Death Metal.

[@cliftonjames785]

@NaPo7 I've literally said that colony is the best melodeath album of all time. Embody the invisible, ordinary story, scorn, colony, coerced coexistence, and zombie inc are my favorite songs by in flames. Well, including only for the weak, free fall, December flower, and my sweet shadow. Their new album so far sounds more like their old stuff, and im glad but nothing beats the era of colony and clayman

[@daveataway1952]

I really like the Rise of the Tyrant-Album by Arch Enemy

[@metalwarmaster4056]

What's crazy is that sometimes he is able to look past his own tastes to appraise something artistically, but can only manage to do that when its overtly technical or progressive. Yet disregards whole ass fuckin genres because it's "lesser" to him because they dont use 87 polyrhythms and bullshit chord progressions to create the illusion that they can make interesting songs to listen to, when you can make amazing songs using 4/4 and simple power chords.

[@lukeizabelle2131]

Agree 100%

[@AntoniZeppelin]

These first 5 minutes of you trashing these genres is some of the best comedy gold I've seen in quite some time

[@31luckispucki10]

When it comes to "Progressive" vs. "Experimental" I usually think about it like this: Progressive Metal is when, like you said in your Finn McKenty video, you have Metal that tries to push the genre forward and actually achieves that goal. Something that actually brings something new to the table which is then partially adopted by the rest of the genre (aka it progresses it). Experimental Metal meanwhile is just when someone makes metal with some weird, uncommon shit that you would call experimental, but doesn’t actually impact the genre as a whole. So "Progressive" is when metal is expanded upon, brought to new heights and is actually changed on some scale, while "Experimental" is just Metal with weird shit thrown in (Differentiating between "Experimental" and "Avantgarde" still doesn’t make any sense to me though).

[@BecomeTheKnight]

That's a good defense

[@Yenneffer]

That's a really good explanation. Progressive metal takes what we have, builds upon it and pushes it in a new direction (and also inevitably lumps in any bands that follow in that direction, even though they're not really progressive themselves). Experimental often kind of abandons any prior structures and does whatever random BS... with very varying levels of success lol. And avantgarde is probably just a fancy way of saying experimental.

[@briansullivan3424]

I have always associated "progressive" with technique and composition, usually focused on odd time signatures, shifting tonal centers (but usually still modal or scale-based in some fashion), and virtuosic playing. Experimental I have associated with orchestration and production. Introducing weird instruments, leveraging atmospheric effects. Players can be technical in experimental, but not a requirement. And atonality is far more common... that being said, I can't think of any discernable difference between "experimental" and "avant-garde", other than the intent of the artist. People who think of their music as "experimental" intend to get people to "think" about something new, while people who think of their music as "avant-garde" intend to get people to "feel" something on a more artistic level. I agree with Mike though... the final product of experimental and avant-garde music is about the same, but I think progressive music is distinctly different.

[@Bodge18]

When I think avant-garde, I think of experimental music with a high level of inaccessibility. So all avant-garde music is experimental, but not all experimental music is avant-garde.

[@nu-metalfan2654]

@LucasPMN. Prog = a Scientist. Experimental/Avant Garde = a Painter/Artist

[@WattPheasant]

The moment when you realize you know more about metal subgenres than Mike does.

[@chr15tune56]

Why isn't slamming brutal blackened experimental death core metal on the list??

[@adaef69]

well i mean the guy is literally blinded by a corporate image of metal. he literally thinks ffdp sound good. if you have an admiration of that sound like 70% of good metal is just locked for you. also why are you a watt player what is wrong with you

[@youreokayboah2128]

I cringed hard when he said funk metal probably doesn’t exist. Like WTF

[@Shiljamannn]

Most of them are crap... I would put even more in that shouldn't "exist" category... Just because a band is more technical, or melodic, doesn't mean they need a sub-subgenre to describe them... I mean original heavy metal has melodies, and all other main subgenres has some kind of melodies... Because melody is a part of any music genre... Only boneheaded metalheads try to flex with all this descriptions and make it distinct... What makes a band distinct from others is style, not the near infinite iterration of Sub- subgenre....

[@xaphan8581]

@@youreokayboah2128 if funk metal does exist they should shoot it in the face and put it to rest

[@hannahkozlovic1715]

I can’t believe you don’t think Slavic post-blackened two-tone ska infused progressive slamming stinky shrimpcore is a real genre, unsubscribed. (Also, I think folk metal is a lot more diverse of a genre than you’re giving it credit before. Folk elements are infused into pretty much any other subgenre of metal, and black metal is just one of them as opposed to the full array of bands in the genre, hence the distinction with folk black metal. Personally I find folk metal from foreign countries the most interesting and the most worthwhile, since a lot of interest and creativity can be had out of putting the song structures, conventions, and instruments from the traditional folk music of a country into a style of metal.)

[@brauliodiaz3925]

It's kind of ridiculous. If you add any folk instrument into your metal composition it immediately gets tagged 'folk'. Indian metal, and scandavian metal are worlds apart, but are still considered ''folk metal''. Meanwhile you get a band like Behemoth which play a more polished modern style of black metal and immediately they get a new sub-genre for them and their copycats. They are black metal.

[@EbizzerHH]

Slavic post-blackened two-tone ska infused progressive slamming stinky shrimpcore... that shit is a thing... I am sure! ^^

[@Divig]

This. Noone would describe the Hu, Bloodywood, Myrath or Týr as any kind of black metal. (It's honestly strange that they counts as the same genre at all) That said, even if it is one of my go-to genres it is so incredibly hit and miss that the ranking is probably spot on.

[@hannahkozlovic1715]

@@brauliodiaz3925 Agreed, it is a pretty vast genre which is why I thought I would mention that it’s more broad and varied than he gave it credit for. While styles of folk music from various cultures bear little no resemblance to each other, I think it’s interesting to have a genre with such a loose definition that can fit so much good material. I think that’s kind of the point that was supposed to be made in this video; why would it make sense to have a thousand separate genres of metal each being specified and categorized by its connection to one particular culture, when you can safely put them into one eclectic genre that they all technically fit into?

[@hannahkozlovic1715]

@@Divig Yeah, I agree on the ranking despite folk metal of various styles and derivatives being one of my absolute favourite genres. There’s some absolute gold in the genre though

[@valland9075]

Mike pretty much admitted that he has no idea whatsoever about what he's barking about

[@Bemenhorst]

How to say you have no idea about music without saying you have no idea about music

[@huliobeebop]

Anyone disappointed that he didn’t rank “Symphonic post-apocalyptic reindeer-grinding christ-abusing extreme war pagan fennoscandian metal” in this list?

[@sputhoor96]

These subgenres exist so that you can explore more bands with similar music. For example when I discovered early carcass, thanks to it being classified as "grindcore" I could check out other similar bands such as napalm death, terrorizer, impetigo, general surgery just to name a few. Also when I listened to cryptopsy, I was intrigued to listen to more of this subgenre called "brutal death metal". Sometimes it helps you to stay away from certain genres. When I listened to sunbather by deafhaven, I knew I had to distance myself from "blackgaze"

[@Consolous]

Glam metal being S tier just felt so right. It is so much fun and so easy to enjoy, but surprisingly, some amazing musicianship from many of those bands

[@anthonyrowland9072]

glam and nwobhm just having fun in jean jackets while all other sub genres are miserable...

[@Stissel]

"Neue Deutsche Härte" is german and would word for word translate to "new german hardness", which sounds completely rediciolous, but one could argue in favor of it beeing its own genre. The most prominent example for this genre is Rammstein, who also defined the genre and its sound. Now I get the argument that language and region/country of origin shouldn't be the only indicator of a new subgenre, but I think that Rammsteins sound slightly differs from "normal" Metal due to the synth, the "spookyness", the vocalstyle that many in that genre try to replicate from Till Lindemann, and (trust me) the lyrics. So imo, it should be somewhere on the list. But as always, great Video. You trashtalking a bunch of genres in the beginning is honestly one of the funniest things I have seen recently.

[@superstarthomas]

To be far Oomph! was the first inspiration for that style, Rammstein just became the most popular of that genre. It's manly industrial metal and rock but in German so in a way just industrial metal. It's also sometimes called Tanzmetal (Dance metal) which makes since and fits well with Rammstein's Herzeleid and Sehnsucht albums.

[@nemesis8626]

Rammstein are industrial metal

[@ptwkk]

@@nemesis8626 Rammstein don't really have a whole lot in common with industrial music. The electronics Rammstein incorporate come more from NDW and eurodance than anything industrial, hence why NDH is it's own genre

[@PM-vv3uc]

@@ptwkk Depeche Mode was also a huge influence for them so I'd say it's a mixture of new wave and the new electronic music from the 90s

[@florianstumpf4349]

Gut zusammengefasst 👍

[@AndromedaEleven]

13:56 what you described here is basically blackgaze, it literally has “gaze” in it, so blackgaze shouldn’t be in the “should exist”. Post-black metal is actually closer to “shouldn’t exist” category than blackgaze. I also think that 1st and 2nd wave black metal are helpful definitions, even if you consider 1st wave to be thrash, then 2nd wave is definitely a distinctive style/movement. Also experimental/avant-grade metal fits as a subgenre for bands like Igorrr.

[@SuperMetalmeltdown]

Post-black metal is more useful as a political distinction if anything else. A lot of post-black metal bands tie in their 2nd wave black metal influences with new ideas and discard a lot of the political and ideological baggage that plagues the very first incarnations of the genre. It of course is a very fine thread to follow, but it does feel distinct enough from blackgaze. You could replace "post" with "modern" or "new" since it implies a schism between both movements.

[@regularrandom6045]

"I want some nutsack twisted fuck to tell me that I'm wrong for doing this"

[@GaminRobot]

Brutal death metal is very much a real genre, people who aren’t really into death metal just dismiss it

[@buttermybuns9529]

Yeap. There’s a huge difference between Old school death metal and brutal death metal.

[@Rooster84]

@@buttermybuns9529 yeah, autopsy and mortician, while still technically being death metal, have very little in common and need to be differentiated from each other.

[@discordiangod]

Listen to cannibal corpse Then listen to analepsy

[@cliftonjames785]

I dont really like brutal death metal, im more into melodeath but even I understand how important death metal was to the whole genre. It helped shaped a lot of my favorite metal bands and genres

[@dr.juerdotitsgo5119]

"1st wave Black Metal" / "2nd wave Black Metal" may sound stupid, but a band like Marduk sounds NOTHING like, say, Celtic Frost. Totally valid distinction. "Brutal Death Metal" is a different story, since the title itself is redundant (and stupid), regardless of how more extreme Cryptopsy is if compared to Obituary; they just have different styles, which you should expect.

[@lt8400]

Saying Sepultura like that and calling them "American rock n roll" invalidates everything you have ever said Edit: Can't believe I forgot to say this, but it also invalidates EVERYTHING YOU EVER WILL SAY

[@TheOnlyPedroGameplays]

Real

[@themetalhead1463]

He obviously hasn’t heard Arise, Chaos A.D. or Beneath the Remains which are thrash.

[@hudsonbarth5641]

Mike, I love you, and I agree that a lot of the names you tossed out were redundant (like Experimental Metal), but the first part of this video demonstrated a lot of ignorance to the heavier subgenres. Brutal death metal for example actually has a very well-defined sound, as do many of the other labels that were instantly cast out. I'm not knocking you, I respect your musical opinion greatly, I just don't think you are familiar enough with a lot of that music to make those calls accurately.

[@snow15243]

Yea same for 1st/2nd wave black metal and some of the doom metal subgenres, Like SUNN O)))) (a drone doom band) sounds VERY DIFFERENT from a traditional doom band like pentagram, or a regular doom band like Warning or Pallbearer.

[@alexistaylor9092]

Yeah because I love Technical Death Metal, I'm ok with Symphonic Death Metal, I can listen to normal Death Metal sometimes, and I never need to listen to Brutal Death Metal. I think that distinction, for me, justifies the delineation in sub-genres. But I get where Mike's coming from, because Brutal Death Metal is rather similar to Death Metal, in that it's going for the same thing mostly, just harder.

[@ThoughtPolice77]

@@snow15243 for someone who calls himself a "metal snob" he really has no clue what he's talking about on a broad scale. Same argument for everything he doesn't like either he glosses over it because it's "production is bad" or "they don't know hoW tO CoMpOsE .... rrrrrgh TaMbErS".

[@Celatra]

@@alexistaylor9092 well.. isn't that thrash metal to heavy metal? isn't that death metal to thrash metal?

[@BeyondKieran]

Yea dsbm is a lot different than normal black metal.

[@vonbl3]

There's plenty of stuff you're highly uninformed/unaware of yet voice opinions as if they were facts. That's posing in my book.

[@HeroSword_P]

Just because you think all Black Metal sounds the same doesn’t mean DSBM isn't its own distinct genre, it's one of the biggest subgenres of BM as a matter of fact. I don't even like it and I know that for a fact, seen it in abundance for so many years.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Ok....but does it NEED to be it's own distinct genre? What purpose does it serve?

[@heethanthen]

@@BecomeTheKnight Genres are descriptive, not prescriptive. A certain set of bands were the fountainhead of a certain distinct tonal and lyrical niche of black metal that many would follow suit in. You mentioned taxonomy. Think of it like an allopatric speciation event in the black metal genre that slowly and steady gained more distinctions of its own.

[@ColdWolf312]

@@heethanthen 🥱😴

[@ThatFantasyPenguin]

It's the biggest which means it's full of talentless hacks

[@SuperMetalmeltdown]

@@BecomeTheKnight Black Metal is a lot more politcally motivated that other genres. I mean, we're talking going as far as murder! As such, a band presenting itself as NSBM, RABM, DSBM, Unblack Metal, etc is a distinction not so much in terms of "music" (even tho most RABM is far more crust influenced) but in terms what the band represents, who they want to be associated with, who do they want their music to be heard alongside, who they wanna play with and for whom, etc. Yes, of course there is a wide variety of ideologies in any music genre (Nazi punks fuck off) but Black Metal in particular has had people that went from "thought" to "action".

[@KilroyWasHere83]

Can't forget about our very own Neoclassical AC/DC, DON'T EVER DRINK THE KOOLAID

[@abcdefghier]

Progressive metal is about the song structure, experimental metal is when someone decides to add some bongo drums or some weird shit, avant-garde is heavily experimental music which pushes the boundaries of the genre. All of these genres have reasons to exist, even if they overlap sometimes.

[@vonbl3]

Don't bother. He doesn't have a clue yet speaks as if he's some sort of sophisticated music critic.

[@BradysDeflatedBalls]

Overlap 95% of the time*

[@vishalnagaraj5343]

​@@BradysDeflatedBallswaaw bro I feel like it's 50% or less. Fates Warning, Queensryche, Obscura, Voivod, Gojira, Coroner, Vektor, Be'lakor, Mastodon, aren't experimental at all

[@boyarbeloved]

This feels like rage-bait, but I’m not sure he’s self aware enough for that.

[@dauls]

I am the Stoner/Doom fan and I understand why people do not like it, but it is my favorite genre and that has not changed for 10+ years so its not just a phase. Great vid

[@christiantodor9128]

In defense of "Avant-garde" vs "Progressive", compare Mr. Bungle's Self-Titled and Tool's Lateralus. The latter is experiemntal but still (in a way) sticks to the fundamentals of writing a song, whereas the former throws that out the window and says "we'll do whatever crazy shit we want." Or, at least that's how I see it anyway

[@toprak3479]

He needs to listen to some Bungle if he thinks prog and avantgarde don't deserve different names.

[@BungleGrindClown]

Glad someone mentioned Mr. Bungle, Patton’s bands are in general great and he creates avant-garde music. Seeing Mr. Bungle and The Melvins in May.

[@nkntibarik4321]

poser elitism doesn't exi-

[@MetalTrenches]

I can’t imagine throwing out melodic death metal in particular considering it’s a very specific genre generally referring to bands born out of the Gothenburg scene of the late 90’s (At The Gates, In Flames, Soilwork, Arch Enemy, Dark Tranquillity, etc.) I get you on experimental vs avant-garde, but a lot of these ARE actual genres. Just my two cents

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

You should make a video on this topic.

[@futurebreedmachine9302]

He put melodic death in A tier.

[@Heatwave9000]

He didn't throw it out. Did you even watch the video? 😂

[@hellhound1836able]

homie just said sepultura sounded like american metal

[@ben_derisgreat9824]

Proto-metal is an overlap genre that technically isn’t even metal. Stuff like Blue Oyster Cult, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple. Stuff that is debatably the thing that directly helped create metal. Please don’t kill me.

[@mr.echo24]

🤣🤣🤣

[@aaronvalere3832]

So, hard Rock then.

[@ben_derisgreat9824]

@@aaronvalere3832 essentially. Just hard rock ranging from the late 60s to early 70s. Stuff that influenced metal. That’s why I said it’s an overlap genre.

[@DogmanOffical]

A couple Beatles songs might fit in the category too

[@sushio4357]

"please don't kill me" xD

[@rkochamp07]

The Versailles shoutout was a welcome surprise. Theyre definitely under looked and underrated. Hizaki does what he does flawlessly on the guitar. And Kamijo definitely has a unique and epic voice

[@christiangutierrez1340]

agreed 👍👍🤘🤘

[@heethanthen]

I’ve seen flatearthers who understand science better than you understand metal.

[@michaels7159]

Agreed. Holy shit this guy's tier lists are always a dumpster fire.

[@futurebreedmachine9302]

@@michaels7159 I am hoping he does a redemption tier list, just like he did one for the classic rock bands.

[@HeadbangingGlory]

This guy has such a caveman opinion of every sub genre he placed in the F and Shouldn’t exist category. There’s so many good bands in each of those sub genres and gives off vibes that he wouldn’t be open minded to try to listen to any of it.

[@HemiSlant6828]

At the same time, adding subgenres to subgenres makes zero sense considering most sub-subgenres usually only have a couple bands, and even then,sub-subgenres aren’t always the best thing because every band is unique. You can have 2 bands in the same genre, but have them both be completely unique. TOOL and Dream Theater are both prog, but would you make specific subgenres for their sounds? Same with Death and Cannibal Corpse, they’re both death metal, but do either of them deserve their own dedicated subgenres?

[@HeadbangingGlory]

Considering how diverse music has become over the years it can be daunting to categorize a lot but when you look at the bands backgrounds it doesn’t always fit under the same umbrella. For example Tool has a grunge background and Dream Theater had a melodic/symphonic background. Despite being under the label of progressive they both have very different writing and production styles.

[@HemiSlant6828]

@@HeadbangingGlory This kind of proves my point. There’s no reason to have a thousand Sub-subgenres for specific bands, especially if there’s going to be only 2 in that genre

[@HeadbangingGlory]

But if we just call any band metal there’s a drastic difference of what that even means comparing past influences, production quality and time period. So while it may seem like it’s too much to categorize we also can’t just paint it all under a single brush when there’s clear distinctions between them all.

[@HemiSlant6828]

@@HeadbangingGlory That’s why we have subgenres, but i’m not talking about regular subgenres like Prog or thrash, i’m talking about using stuff like “Ultra Lo-Fi White Only Suicidal Blackened Grunge” or bullshit like that for only 1 or 2 specific bands

[@starhawks1]

I get I'm being exactly the person he's talking about, but how the fuck can you tell me brutal death and technical death aren't distinct genres? I questioned his credibility at that point

[@facundogotmand8368]

He seems to prefer power metal high pitch bullshit.

[@themetalhead1463]

@@facundogotmand8368he likes noodly wankery.

[@akephalos438]

DSBM is actually a real thing and is a fairly different sound from regular black metal. Xasthur is a great place to start. And DSBM is actually more widely used to describe the form of black metal that you referred to as 'atmospheric black metal'

[@xdimitrije]

You are so smart.

[@mattdubya1037]

I put black metal at the S tier. the raw sound of layers of tremolo, the folk-y melodies. the overall cold atmosphere is better and more emotional inspiring than any other sub-genre for me. a lot of those musicians are one man bands which pretty cool. doesn’t sound like you ever listened to Dissection or immortal, nothing shit tier about them.

[@rev9737]

Yeah this guy's a poser.

[@looeegee]

Don't trust this "music snob", he doesn't know shit, he's just stuck un his own metal elitist boomer bubble

[@ToveriJuri]

He just has a massive hate boner for black metal in general and how low-fi the sound is. He would absolutely hate Dissection if he listened to it.

[@Heatwave9000]

None of them can mix music

[@ToveriJuri]

@@Heatwave9000 I think Ihsahn has gotten pretty good at it.

[@aleximikkonen6586]

aka how many sub subgenres of black metal can mike roast in half an hour

[@arms7260]

I feel like Mike is the metal equivalent of people who say "I don't listen to rap but I like Eminem and Logic"

[@archivelibrarian6818]

how

[@user-gd1no3gf6d]

@@archivelibrarian6818 mike loves some bands like Opeth but hates everything else related to black metal. He also seem to hate grindcore & brutal death and everything related to them. Those are some of the biggest genres of metal, we dont realize it but there's 3 grindcore records for 5 thrash records

[@user-gd1no3gf6d]

@@archivelibrarian6818 also mike surprisingly doesnt know much about metal genres (for exemple he didn't knew what funk metal & groove metal were)

[@user-gd1no3gf6d]

@@archivelibrarian6818 rewatching, he don't understand war metal, dont get that proto-metal is basically hard rock / heavy psych and not heavy metal (he's still right to put in shouldn't exist, bc that's not an actual genre), he put things like progressive power metal in shouldn't exist like they're not an actual thing but treat progressive death like a genre (traduction : he doesn't stuff but can't understand that an equivalent in something else exists). He didnt even bothered to look what brutal death is (10 seconds of research + listening for 1min and you'll see how it differs from traditional death metal)

[@mr.echo24]

@@user-gd1no3gf6d He doesn't have to like black metal if he doesn't want to. That means nothing on his knowledge on metal overall, I can't blame him for not liking it either.

[@dethmetalhed9178]

Progressive metal is heavy metal with a progressive rock influence, avant-garde and experimental metal is just weird shit that can't be shoehorned into any other genre and it can have roots in any metal subgenre ranging from black metal to fucking power metal

[@pizzaboynizzaTV]

As somebody that considers proto-metal one of their favorite genres, I’d actually consider it the weird mix of psychedelic, acid, and blues rock with extremely distorted that occurred in the late sixties, arguably even Black Sabbath’s first album. Paranoid is a good starting point for actual Heavy Metal.

[@1krani]

Proto-Metal is like "Helter Skelter" and "Revolution" by The Beatles, or "Man On the Silver Mountain" by Rainbow. They're rock songs which carry the early hallmarks of what would later become commonly associated with metal or one of its early subgenres. It's basically metal that is still in the cocoon, half-transformed from rock but with the distinct appendages visibly forming.

[@MidnightAvalon]

So this is my question with proto metal. Where does it end? Is Rite of Spring proto metal because that piece sounds like Periphery, or what about Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, that piece carries a lot of what metal does, or even things like the third movement of the Moonlight Sonata?

[@1krani]

@@MidnightAvalon For me, proto-metal ends when songs embraced ALL of the hallmarks. Helter Skelter has the high energy and distorted guitar shredding, but not the lyrics (it's about a carnival slide). Revolution sort of has the lyrics and definitely the distortion, but the energy is more bluesy than rock 'n' roll, never mind metal. Man On the Silver Mountain also has the lyrics and distortion but is once against lacking the energy. A lot of AC/DC could be classified as proto-metal, for their songs had the energy and the distortion but the lyrical matter was often rather benign compared to singing about religious massacres or orbiting surveillance robo-falcons. In essence, proto-metal stopped being a thing around 1980 by my estimation, when the hallmarks were embraced and those bands seeking to separate themselves from the recently arrived British newcomers returned to a more pop-oriented sound akin to the first half of the Beatles' music.

[@ilhamakbar5482]

@@1krani tbh Man on the Silver Mountain is a poor choice for Rainbow, you could've chose something like Kill the King or A Light in the Black

[@1krani]

@@ilhamakbar5482 For proto-metal or for good songs?

[@ilhamakbar5482]

@@1krani for proto-metal, Silver Mountain is a great song but doesnt fit the 'proto-metal' genre imo

[@1GuyGaming]

Experimental Metal vs. Progressive Metal What's funny is some genres have multiple names that mean the same genre. According to what I've read, progressive metal has a lot of shifts in tempo, complex riffs / time signatures, and influences from other genres such as classical music. The most important quality of progressive metal imo, is the time signature changing almost constantly throughout the songs. Experimental metal is meant to sound like if WTF was a genre. It has weird, jarring sounds from the vocalist as well as the instruments.

[@bassrocks4419]

Omen and Manilla Road are actually great bands. Omen’s debut album Battle Cry is one of my favorite metal albums of all time. Manilla Road took me a little longer to truly appreciate cause Mark Shelton’s voice is a little bit nasally, but they’ve slowly become another one of my favorite metal bands.

[@capnfluff2428]

i wish you name dropped a few bands with each genre ranked so we would know exactly what you're talking about

[@EzioMonty117]

Yeah that really irked me while watching this. Name dropping some bands would also help sell your arguments too.

[@putridabomination]

The problem is he probably can't. It's easier for him to bash things he doesn't research or understand.

[@coldkiller187]

It's funny how he calls himself a Snob but doesn't even know much about Metal. "I don't know this genre so it doesn't exist" cmon man that's so ignorant.

[@facundogotmand8368]

According to his chart, my music library shouldn't exist.

[@jdiejejerje661]

Yeah. He was right to throw a lot of that out, but stuff like Funeral Doom, Death/Doom, and Progressive Black metal are completely legit subgenres.

[@beyris]

Proto-Metal refers more to very early bands like Black Sabbath, Budgie and the like which are usually referred to as Heavy Metal, but have a different, more blues-influenced style to what is usually referred to as Heavy Metal, which also takes influence from bands like Judas Priest and Motörhead.

[@polishjanush9482]

I think DSBM deserves its own category - mostly because some bands in that genre don't even feel like metal, not only black metal. The rest of black metal is basically the same...

[@TheBlackQueen]

The difference between Experimental and Progressive is that Progressive music experiments with the structure of music's compositional boundaries, whereas Experimental deals with the boundaries of the concept of music as a whole, which often treads the line of whether it even qualifies as music or not. Revolution 9 is by no means a Progressive song, but it is 100% Experimental because it tests the boundaries of what is considered Music.

[@Nila_n]

Melodic death metal exists. Otherwise how'd you define insomnium and Dark Tranquility from cannibal corpse? They are and they need to be different. Change my mind.

[@DjImpossibility]

I am at the same time extremely entertained and extremely pissed off. Thank you, good sir!

[@Kanelipulla420]

I love how he talks trash about genres and doesn’t even bother to find out what they sound like. That’s nothing but disrespect and arrogance in my eyes, and that shouldn’t even exist in the world of art. I know it’s an old video but I had to comment this.

[@mitch5300]

War metal is definitely its own subgenre, as it combines the lofi and riffs of black metal with the pacing, riffs, and vocals from either death and somewhat speed (chaotic sound)

[@MrHamtits]

Wouldn't expect much from a guy that rates melodic death as highly as he does

[@Morphoidism]

​​@@MrHamtitsMelodeath is really good though ngl. Intestine Baalism, Eucharist, Gates of Ishtar, Internal Decay, Inanna, Early In Flames/At The Gates, etc. Just that the popular melodeath bands are pretty shit, usually.

[@urmomma2688]

@@Morphoidism Yeah right. If this guy knows who Intestine Baalism is, i will drink a gallon of bleach

[@Morphoidism]

@@urmomma2688 lmao

[@forgemastermetal]

Technical performance is not good songwriting. Most progressive bands don't understand this.

[@Rowjimmyguitar]

Death doom is valid to me, death metal and doom metal are pretty different so combining elements of the two creates a unique sound

[@BecomeTheKnight]

How many bands?

[@LurchyScott]

@@BecomeTheKnight Paradise Lost, Anathema and Amorphis are considered 3 of the pioneers of the genre. Then you have Katatonia (their earlier stuff), Swallow The Sun, Draconian, November's Doom, My Dying Bride, Hooded Menace, October Tide as probably the more popular bands of the genre. There are a shit ton of death/doom bands but they are pretty underground. Swallow The Sun, Draconian, My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost are probably the 4 most popular bands within death/doom. I edited it because well....my spelling was fucking horrendous.

[@TallicaMan1986]

@@LurchyScott There's also an early 90s band called Sorrow with an album called Human Error. Paradise Lost's first album kicks ass.

[@LurchyScott]

@@TallicaMan1986 I was just mostly naming off the more popular bands with the sub-genre. There is a lot of bands within death/doom but they aren't extremely popular. Hanging Garden is another death/doom band I didn't mention but that's only because they aren't as popular as the ones I've already mentioned (at least not from what I gather anyways).

[@facundogotmand8368]

@@BecomeTheKnight You don't know anything about metal genres and yet still make a video about them?

[@adamwheelerproductions1607]

My palm went straight through my face when he said funk metal isn't a thing.

[@heccingcommie4942]

Proto-metal is like Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin, heavy metal is what came afterwards, Black Sabbath through Iron Maiden

[@veliki_dlek]

So made-up genre? Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin are rock, there is no reason to invent a genre for them.

[@heccingcommie4942]

@@veliki_dlek proto-metal is more of a contextual description of bands/their music than an actual genre, the label helps us understand where metal developed from

[@speakerdestroyer425]

17:09 fun fact about metalcore and melodic metalcore: the term 'metalcore' was originally coined as a joke by Matt Fox of Shai Hulud to describe metallic sounding hardcore bands like Earth Crisis, Deadguy, Integrity etc. These were all bands from the hardcore scene that were really pushing the boundaries of how heavy hardcore could get. If memory serves correctly, the reason people started using melodic metalcore as well was to distinguish the slew of metal bands in the early-mid 2000s that were influenced by At the Gates and In Flames as much as they were bands like Black Flag and Agnostic Front. This would encompass bands like Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying, Trivium, Bullet for my Valentine etc. It's a weird one because both styles are technically combinations of metal and hardcore, but they're worlds apart because one originated in hardcore scenes, the other in metal scenes. Converge and Killswitch Engage are so different stylistically speaking but both are considered metalcore. I've also heard progressive metalcore being used to describe Periphery. I don't know if I buy it but there are a tonne of bands that basically rip off Periphery, so you could give it a pass? I definitely think the metalcore styles are more interesting because they actually seem to be categorized based on the scenes they originate from, rather than just being a piss poor excuse to give 5 bands their own special term because reasons.

[@LordBackuro]

Proto metal basically is all the stuff that wasn’t sabbath but was near what they did It’s basically just early 70’s hard rock that was really heavy almost metal Which is basically just Led Zeppelin, Deep purple, Scorpions, Judas Priest, Hendrix and a few others i can’t right now think off to name

[@GonerWind]

@Dragon Ball fans can't read I'd argue their debut is more like hard rock

[@raiden3295]

@Dragon Ball fans can't read I'm pretty sure their early stuff was hard rock, I can't imagine someone listening to "Breaking the Law" and calling it a heavy metal song.

[@Delaecress]

Queen’s Stone Cold Crazy?

[@kindohein]

Glad you put my favorite genre at A (melodeath)! I got a little nervous when they first got mentioned while doing "Shouldn't Exist" but I completely agree with you on the name. It is kind of stupid but you sort of get what it means. Most of my favorite bands are in this category (Mercenary, Soilwork, Scar Symmetry, etc)

[@Masher2025]

Belakor the best.

[@solinvictus2132]

Funk Metal is indeed a thing, though I don't know any full funk Metal albums or funk Metal bands, you can pick out songs where funk Metal would be a good label for it

[@Lancelot30]

Incubus’s SCIENCE is literally Funk Metal all the way through. I l don’t think you can categorize it as anything else. It’s definitely a thing.

[@solinvictus2132]

@A bird that's filled with rage oh shit can't believe I forgot about them, and I'd say some of Faith No Mores catalog falls into this category too

[@EzioMonty117]

Extreme, Incubus, Faith No More, early RHCP, the first Mr Bungle album and Living Colour are all examples of funk metal so yeah it's definitely a thing

[@moriturism]

mike, i love you brother. but as nice as i can put this as a fellow musician: maybe be less ignorant of some of these subgenres. a few short examples being; Austere, Thy Light, and Sadness are so much different than Darkthrone, Mayhem, and Gorgoroth. Dying Fetus are much different from Kreator. side note, noticed you said goth metal bands go for timbre more than writing and composition, familiarize yourself with Katatonia and My Dying Bride. if it’s not your thing, that’s fine. this goes for everyone, just don’t be ignorant, it makes you look stupid. Mike again, love you, but you may have wanted to do more basic research into subgenres you happen to not be into.

[@crb6852]

I'm not entirely sure why "progressive metalcore" and "progressive deathcore" got thrown in the trash. specifically for prog metalcore. if you listen take a band like As I Lay Dying and then compare it to Erra or Architects, they are astronomically different. both can be described as "metalcore" loosely, but one is more influenced by old school Melo death like At the gates and hardcore punk, which is audibly heard, whereas the other took influence from stuff like Converge and brought in technical and progressive riffs and song structures. you could say "then why dont we just call them prog metal" bc they still have a metalcore base and roots but it is completely different than just standard metalcore. even prog deathcore stuff like Old Born of Osiris and Old Veil Of Maya are completely different than a band like Suicide Silence.

[@notmrcrowley9757]

definitely, I would never say Erra and Animals as Leaders are even close to being the same subgenre despite both being progressive.

[@Kripsas]

Regarding the 1st wave of black metal and the 2nd wave of black metal is that first wave is basically thrash metal but with a lo-fi sound (great examples would be Sodom - In the Sign of Evil and Bathory Debut Album). 2nd is the ones that everybody knows (Mayhem, Darkthrone, Emperor, Burzum and etc.). I understand that at labeling them seems redundant, but musically they are very different.

[@user-jx2qb8ve1n]

respectfully, this is awful 😭😭😭

[@asloii_1749]

A lot of these “genres” are literally musical concepts and ideas that bands across all genres use

[@bostontowny4life744]

Melodic Death Metal is literally a completely different sound from regular death metal. It’s basically NWOBHM mixed with death metal. To say the name of the sub-genre shouldn’t exist is just ignorant

[@ilhamakbar5482]

any band recommendation? I'm intrigued now since you said its a mix of NWOBHM and death metal

[@orion_7726]

@@ilhamakbar5482 I think it has more to do with symphonic metal + death metal some goods bands: Insomnium, Be'lakor and Dark Tranquility

[@MellowGrunt10]

@@ilhamakbar5482 I recommend Amon Amarth from Sweden.

[@rev9737]

@@ilhamakbar5482 at the gates first album.

[@Morphoidism]

There's another type of melodeath, where they instead get influence from black metal. Stuff like Eucharist, Gates of Ishtar, Dissection, etc.

[@jukeman9291]

The first 10 minutes are pure and proud ignorance

[@KaldDodeGitarist]

Avant-garde music is progressive music that nobody truly likes. They only say they like it to seem interesting

[@heethanthen]

Ah yes, tell me more about what’s going on in my head, soothsayer.

[@KaldDodeGitarist]

@@heethanthen baited

[@EzioMonty117]

As someone who likes/appreciates a lot of Avant Garde music, I would say your description of it is pretty damn accurate

[@Lucretia916]

This dude seems like a cool guy to just chill out with (as long as he’s not talking about music) but the more I watch him the more I think he just doesn’t know metal

[@lbonvillain-wm4ds]

Tell me you dont know what youre talking about without telling me you dont know what youre talking about

[@snaggletooth1500]

This dude probably listened to 1 song from each genre for like 30 seconds and thinks he knows everything.

[@putridabomination]

@@snaggletooth1500 he probably did that for a fourth of the genres on the list

[@snaggletooth1500]

And the other genres he didn't even listen to.

[@LordBackuro]

Just as a info: 1st wave Black Metal is a lot different than the average black Metal you know Its less Lo-Fi and has more thrash metal elements and not every vocal is a screeching girl and absolutely takes itself less serious than 2nd wave Black Metal For example Venoms first 2 albums and Celtic Frost are vastly different than 2nd wave black metal or what you would call "Repetitive shit recorded with a rusty old tin can amp from the 50’s" Not a lot of screeching vocals It’s basically just Motörhead but tony iommi set the amp settings and satanic aesthetics Unless we talk about Bathory which created the modern black metal sound it’s more of its own thing from the other black metal subgenres and far more unique 1st wave was a lot punkier and thrash like with more brutal chunky heavy riffs and somewhat more diverse vocal range (well it’s more like there is 2 camps, there is the screecher who wants to be like Bathory, and then there is the People who want to sound like Cronos from Venom with a deeper more typical heavy metal voice.) Other thing i feel like is different is that 2nd wave/modern black metal was a lot more about the general aesthetic and culture surrounding it similar to gothic metal as you pointed 1st wave almost purely was about the music

[@BecomeTheKnight]

That makes sense, though I'd probably just call it thrash.

[@LordBackuro]

@@BecomeTheKnight Yeah it does kinda blend a lot Black Thrash what you could call it too But if it gets thrashy it usually sounds like stuff from bands like Slayer, Sodom, Kreator and other of the more extreme thrash bands. I mean when you look at the history Black Metal and Thrash were both created at the same moment with Venoms first album Both genres are basically twins For example no power high pitched vocals get belted out in black metal as you could hear And the production usually is intentionally worse but not so rancid that the grainy sound in your ear feels like sand flowing into your ear like in the 2nd wave It’s basically black metal but actually bare able for the human ear for the most part.

[@sputhoor96]

@@BecomeTheKnight 1st wave black metal precedes thrash so that would be wrong.

[@jdiejejerje661]

@@BecomeTheKnight I disagree with him somewhat, because 1st wave black metal isn't really any specific genre at all. It's just a tag for bands that were playing music that could be considered "spiritually" black metal, before the actual subgenre developed. Venom is considered 1st wave BM and they precede thrash as a subgenre, though a lot of thrash bands are also 1st wave including Slayer. Mercyful Fate is also commonly considered 1st wave for lyrical themes, but they are obviously just playing trad metal. Bathory's second album was probably the first example of actual black metal, and even after that it took some time for the genre to become well defined.

[@isocialist]

this is just full cringe lmao. seems like he doesn't even listen to more than 4 bands

[@dostwood5103]

Three, actually. You’re exactly right. He only listens to Metallica, Dream Theater, and Opeth.

[@Nothing-bl7bj]

When you think Technical Thrash, Oldschool Death Metal and Brutal Death shouldn’t exist but yet Tech Death is S Tier. That’s the ultimate meat rider shit right there lol

[@BigBossHayabusa]

Ultimate poser shit too lmao

[@facundogotmand8368]

Yeah man, I don't understand what's in his head. It isn't any sense.

[@veliki_dlek]

Technical trash doesn't exist, name me 5 bands. Old school Death Metal is a stupid name, it all falls under death metal. Brutal Death Metal is also a stupid name, brutal doesn't mean anything, what does brutal even mean when it comes to music? You wouldn't call Cannibal Corpse brutal yet you say Dying Fetus is brutal, when in fact the only difference is that Dying Fetus is more technical. When you're able to accurately define what makes a song brutal then it will become a real genre, so never.

[@Nicolas1909_]

@@veliki_dlek TechThrash: Vector, Coroner, Early Atheist, Voivod, Aspid, Sadus, early Annihilator, Death Row, Hellwitch, Toxik, Watchtower There's definitely a difference between Old School Death Metal and the newer DM. OSDM is rawer, simpler and borrows more stuff from Thrash. There's no way Pestilence's "Consuming Impulse" and Obscura's "Cosmogenesis" are the same subgenre. A name doesn't make a genre invalid? "Shoegaze" sounds also dumb but it definitely exists and is more than "psychedelic rock" or "post-punk".

[@donniehoffman4738]

@@Nicolas1909_ it's wild when someone says "I don't know about a thing, so it doesn't exist" Like these MFs just shouting from the roof "I'm over opinionated and under educated!"

[@krata420]

Even if I dissagre with most of "bye" it was fucking fun to watch xD I just want to say death metal and black metal (bands from polish are fucking awesome, check Odraza, Mgła or Kriegsmaschine, they have good production and great compositions) are my S tier

[@ThexCatmanx]

As much as I hate Glam, Pantera started off as Glam and if Glam is metal enough for Vinny Paul and Dime, it is metal enough for me.

[@sagnikdev5378]

Progressive metalcore shouldn't have been excluded ERRA, Avianna, Monuments, Northlane, Novelists, Born of Osiris, Invent Animate, Ocean Ate Alaska etc... Also if you hear Converge, then Killswitch engage, and finally ERRA all for the first time, all of which apparently fall under metalcore, you won't believe all these bands share the exact same genre ...

[@CaptainPantys]

I love how much of a little troll Mike's turned into.

[@James_whitler2006]

The thing that I love about this guy is the sheer balls on him and him not giving a care about people who can't take other opinions

[@ronanjenkins2323]

Thank you for putting industrial metal so high, it’s such a gravely under appreciated genre. There is copious banality in metal but to me industrial is one of the most original and consistent genres.

[@wafflemanofficial3130]

Any lesser known industrial metal bands or albums you can recommend me

[@WhoaaaMama]

@@wafflemanofficial3130 Fear Factory, Mushroomhead, Ministry

[@WhoaaaMama]

@@wafflemanofficial3130 All fairly underrated

[@ronanjenkins2323]

@@wafflemanofficial3130 you should give pailhead a try. Really underrated industrial punk metal band, only one album tho.

[@goatfromhell666]

I'm in a stoner doom band. That being said, I don't feel like explaining that to everyone who asks what kind of music we play, so I just say it's big dumb music for people to groove to instead, and just leave the genre out of it.

[@Dev7.62]

Why is Grindcore and OSDM in shouldn’t exist but progressive death metal and melodic death metal is included? I don’t even listen to black metal but 1st and 2nd wave black metal are both real genres

[@playstationmetalhead2182]

As someone who’s pretty much of a fan of more extreme styles of metal (i.e. black Metal, death metal, grind) I found a lot of humor in your reaction to some of the “shouldn’t exist” tier genres, especially the grind and black metal styles on that list….I do admit that avant-garde Grindcore sounds the most ridiculous on this list to me…LMAO

[@BecomeTheKnight]

I'm happy you found hunor in it 🙏🤘

[@rysiiyt86]

Yeah but avant-garde grindcore is a real thing. Its kinda good.

[@playstationmetalhead2182]

@@rysiiyt86….oh, I was not aware of that…I just assumed it was more of a joke genre or something…any bands you’d recommend??

[@lightningmonky7674]

He shoulda at least had grindcore on there. It sounds different than other metal genres and core genres

[@rysiiyt86]

@@playstationmetalhead2182 Antigama is good example as far as i know. I think its one of the most famous ones