BOOT SIZING: High Volume vs Low Volume Last Discussion

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• Shoe Sizing Techniques...
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[@teikohdotcom]

Dale…..mate…..it all does make sense…..but my head is swimming. 😂 There are so many variables to dial in. Luckily for me I have “average” feet. I have luckily fitted (with some exceptions) in 8D and adjust accordingly if need be, by varying sock thicknesses or, sometimes by inserting varying thickness removable insoles. This is probably one of the most important videos for a “boot newbie” to watch!

[@DalesLeatherworks]

hahaha thanks so much Teik!!! agreed let me tell you, you are beyond fortunate to have average feet!!! believe me you've dodged quite a few frustrations!

[@stephenathon]

Yessss!! The video I've been waiting for.

[@krisc548]

This was a master class in boot sizing. Thank you!

[@frankrizzo7185]

Perfect timing Dale. I am assessing all my shoes, boots, and slippeds that have too narrow a shape last where my feet want to splay…and donating them! Well done.

[@patrickmiao1698]

Hey Frank, they sell shoe stretchers that can widen the fore foot area, particularly where your big toe and little toe press up against the sides. I had stretched all my shoes and they all feel much better.

[@orlog3343]

Ron’s advice of more room in the toes is great. I’ve had dress shoes that I thought fit until I realized they were causing my toes to squish. Starting to become a believer of shoes being comfortable right out of the box as opposed to “stretch to fit”, because when you think about it, a bespoke shoe will fit perfect immediately so that’s what you should be aiming. I’m surprised more brands don’t do the Munson based last. Tried some Lofgrens recently and they were the most comfortable boots I’ve ever put on but were a hair too short for my liking. Also re brannock, Ron said to add 2 widths which I never heard before, I’m thinking he’s right in terms of what the manufacturer brands the last as (i.e. 8.5EE ball width with narrow heel seems to be the best fit for me, 9.5C/D brannock). I say all this even tho I just got a pair of Viberg 2030 service boots in Maryam horsebutt that may or may not be half a size too small on my toe box (8E, 8.5E in wholecut was way too big) but I digress … in my limited experience so far, more volume in the toes is the way to go. Also side note, has anyone else noticed their feet get larger / wider over covid from not wearing shoes as much? Lol !!

[@stephenathon]

Not going to lie, this one felt more like a lecture than a chat, but a very helpful lecture at that! 1. Is your Parkhurst boot on their old last, because the new (602) last is reportedly lower volume? 2. Allen Edmonds 1757 last is definitely a good one for low volume feet. 3. I want to watch more of that podiatrist's videos! I've been doing this insole test for years not realizing it's an actual thing - but most shoes squash my toes anyway and I figured that's just how things are supposed to be. As a low volume guy, wearing anything with the proper width has far too much volume, so I have to wear thick socks or add inserts. 4. I have been avoiding Alden because of the price but I think I must try the Trubalance again. You say that it's relatively low volume but I've long assumed the opposite since trying them on a half size down from Brannock: my feet were swimming in them. Never been to a proper Alden store though. 5. I struggle with those "combination" lasts which are tight in the front and loose in the heel (though that term typically refers to the opposite proportions). The White's MP is bad for me, and the Grant Stone Leo, but I have narrow heels and a low instep. The struggle is real! Thanks for your valuable input, Dale! Since I am low volume and you are the opposite, I probably need to just start avoiding all the boots that you say fit you well, haha.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

so happy this was able to resonate with you Stephen!!! in many ways you are lucky to have a low volume foot as there are many brands and lasts that would fit you just fine out of the box!! for narrow heel/low instep I would think many Italian shoes would work well for you. but yes alden, despite the price increase, definitely has lasts that would fit you very well including their Grant/Leydon/Aberdeen!

[@caribe2k]

This is a video that all beginners should watch

[@jeffloucks2120]

Such a great video. I'm looking to branch out of mostly Red wings and looking at Grant Stone and Parkhurst. So very helpful.

[@mohamedsiddig2850]

Great topic! Another thing that boot collectors don’t talk about often enough is how your boot size changes over time. As you break them in the arch settles and toe box curls up causing a slight variation in sizing over time.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

you are right, I have heard this time and time again that your foot grows with age. some say a half size every 10 years, moreso in width though as opposed to length. time will tell!!

[@mohamedsiddig2850]

Would be a great topic to discuss with a panel of cobblers and boot collectors! How your foot and your boot change over time, which leathers stretch which ones don’t.

[@caribe2k]

The problem is the we only had a single dimension of your shoe "size" when your feet are 3 dimensions. The Low and High volume together with "knowing your feet" has gave a great tool to buy my boots online. I am almost 10 1/2 E , Taking GrantStone as reference in Brass Boot (High Volume) my size is 9.5 E (going down 1 full in), but in Diesel (Low Volumen) my size 10 E (going down just 1/2 in ). Thanks Dale.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

Thanks for sharing! I agree with you, I would probably be fine with 8D in the GS brass boot which would be a full size down. I'd just have to wear them with thinner socks. the 8E's I'm wearing are a phenomenal fit!!

[@jj4483love]

I've always considered an unstructured toe to be a toe box without celastic or stiffener, just the leather, so it collapses easily. I think an Alden Indy or Grant Stone etc is still a structured toe because it has celastic stiffener keeping it from collapsing, it's just that the last is very low profile. A red wing moc is also structured with celastic, it just has a higher volume last that creates the higher volume bump toe structure. A Viberg 2030 with and without the toe box stiffener creates a whole different look and feel.

[@mrandmrscorona8658]

Wow first time I hear of using insole as a gauge… I like that and explains why I finding myself using my Birkenstocks more often than any of my other shoes

[@splashpit]

If iv got my moneys worth out of my boots the insole had disintegrated by the time im looking at new boots .

[@mrandmrscorona8658]

@@splashpit any model in particular?

[@splashpit]

@@mrandmrscorona8658 ok so I’m in Australia so I don’t buy online. Blunstones but I’ve switched to Redbacks in work boots. Chukkas Clark’s and JimGreens in rough outs. On my second pair of RM Williams Chelsea boots.

[@stephenathon]

@@splashpit I recently tried a pair of Jim Green Vellies and they were huge in my correct size. Definitely high volume.

[@apilkey]

Regarding insole or sock liner test for getting your width, what about stretching? Leather stretches the more you wear it. So if it’s too narrow based on the insole test and I go wider, it may stretch too much and end up too wide after a lot of use.

[@tommyt8998]

Recently bought Thursday Captains. I wear an 11D shoe and they recommended going down 1/2 size. In spite of this I went with an 11. I'm glad I did. It is very slightly too big, but a 10 1/2 would have probably been a bit too tight. I learned the hard way, that a slightly bigger boot is better than slightly tight. With the former, you can always wear slightly thicker socks, but you will never be happy with an overly tight fit.

[@caribe2k]

Thursday are great but The Last is Narrow. I am big GrantStone with a very generous last that still look good.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

I'm with ya! I think Thursday and Bordon I'm better off going TTS instead of a half down. the half down in Bordon are more exact to my measurements but after a while I start to feel the squeeze! much happier going TTS with these low volume lasts

[@aradoran]

I’m the exact same 11 brannock and Thursday the 10.5 are too tight on my toes. Their lasts are super narrow. I tried an 11 and while I could wear it I didn’t like the extra length.

[@michaeledwardlenzi]

Very good info which helps to fill out my rudimentary shoe fit knowledge. Thanks.

[@Cwing07647]

Good one!

[@CrispyFrenFry]

This topic is such a helpful thing to explore. Alas, I suspect that I am an odd case because I have flat feet with EEE width AND high volume insteps. Strangely enough, Alden TruBalance in 8.5 eee fits wonderfully but Alden Barrie last in the same size is quite uncomfortable right at my insteps!

[@1979augistine]

Excellent video

[@andrewvanzetta9036]

Another great video! 👍🏻 would love to see a video comparing the quality and comfort of the Grant Stone/Leo last vs Parkhurst/602 last

[@rogerstein2103]

If you go to a hockey store Bauer has a machine you stand in and does a 3d model of your foot. It's free. Gives you an exact measurement.

[@DirtForm]

what is your advice for a low volume, wide forefoot, which boots stand out to you?

[@frankrizzo7185]

This is a must see video!

[@minnesota-hk1vp]

Helpful! As always and interesting! Thank You

[@rvilletto123]

This is helpful, my foot is so wide I have to size up.

[@drzaius844]

Cool video. Allen Edmonds 65 last is too narrow for me. I have a pair of Carlyles that I wear sockless in summer, they look cool but my foot hates afterwards. Grant Stone Floyd is the most comfortable for me, even sizing down one half from my Brannock gives me an excellent roomy fit. Carmina Oscar last gives me a lot of arch support yet good width at the toe as well, it’s an excellent dress shoe last for guys with wider toes but that want arch support and a European look.

[@robertpotts445]

Thanks for the great video on boot volume. The Brannock device only measures in 2 dimensions. I have had difficulty finding boots and shoes that fit my feet. My feet are similar to yours. I am just under 9 to my great toe on Brannock but my 2nd toe is longer almost to 9.5. My 3rd and 4th toes are also long, I have a high instep and arch. I usually ordered longer shoes to fit my higher volume feet, but that causes the shoe flexion point to be too far back. I have watched some videos on Bespoke shoe measurements and it seems that putting in more foot measurements other than length and width would be helpful.

[@MichaelE.Douroux]

I'm new to this world and have my eye on a pair of Viberg's Service Boots. On the Brannock device I'm an 11D right foot 10.5D left, instep not too high or low and pretty straight toes. I'm stuck between the 1035 and 2030 lasts. At this price point it's uncomfortable to pull the trigger without trying on the different choices first. Is there anyway around this? Thanks and very helpful video.

[@stevek5909]

I forget now whether its Viberg or Nicks, but one of them has a sizing chart that factors in circumference ( volume ? ) when trying to determine best shoe size. Someone should be able to quantify the volume part of the equation and include that factor into size and last. For example, you are an 8.5 D , with a circumference at ball of XX inches. Maybe there should be a recommendation for each last , which could be sizing 1 width wider, or 1/2 length shorter, or whatever. Perhaps even to stay away from certain lasts altogether if they don't match up well with the measurements. If all else fails, maybe you could set up a hotline, 1-800- CALL DALE , and charge $10 to get a personalized recommendation.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

hahaha 1-800-CALL-DALE I love it!!!! but in all seriousness I believe this is what they're trying to accomplish at Grayle in terms of building a sizing database!! let's hope they succeed!!

[@apilkey]

@@DalesLeatherworks Does Grayle’s have a specific section to note foot volume?

[@tuckersholl6773]

Does the heel fit any different between the Truman 79 last and their 20 last? I’ve heard the 79 has a wide heel.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

It’s almost the same thing, the 20 is probably just a little smaller

[@spartanbike2260]

excellent analysis. i would like to buy my first pair of truman boots. i am 9.5E in GS brass boots what size/last would you recommend in truman lineup. thanks

[@DalesLeatherworks]

Probably a 10D would be equivalent but I’d check with them first!

[@keehdesign]

Interesting video on shoe sizing. What would be your preference for people with wide feet? Given the choice of 8.5D, 8E or even 7.5EE. Would you choose a wider shoe with shorter length, or a slimmer shoe with longer length. Thanks.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

I’m still figuring that part out! I’d love to try the 7.5EE or EEE one day

[@keehdesign]

@@DalesLeatherworks from aesthetics perspective, the slimmer shoe will look sleek. But the wider shoe may be comfortable for people with wider feet. I think my true feet size is a 10EEE, but not easy to find such shoe.

[@Smokey66s]

It is hard to find a boot company that sells any but one width usually “D”, Viberg only offers “E”, Thursdays “D” etc. Many many years ago Whites sold off the shelf boots from A through EE, I decided to order made to fit, sent in my measurements. A couple of months later Whites sent me a pair of 12 B, they indicated my measurements fell into size 12 B it was a perfect fit no made to fit charge, those days are long gone.

[@kevinpowers3316]

Been watching all your videos. I'm about to order my first Truman. Looking at the Java waxed flesh. I have a high volume foot. Brannock between 10E and EE. If I go with the 20 last I'm thinking 9.5 D. If I go with the 79 9.5 EE. What are your thoughts? Since the 20 last is a higher volume last. I'm thinking less width?

[@DalesLeatherworks]

I would ask first what are your best fitting boots? I’m leaning toward 9.5EE but would want a little more info before settling!

[@brankovidakovic2987]

Great video! I have one question about last 20 in Truman boots. I have red wing moc toe in size 12D but i need to use insoles to get some volume because of my low instep. I just ordered Truman moc toe in last 20 in size 11,5D. How do last 20 i Truman boots fits in instep area compare to Red wing moc toe? Do they have lower volume in instep area? Thanks...

[@DalesLeatherworks]

my truman moc toes in 8.5D initially hurt the instep on my right foot the first few wears but now they have worked in and feel great! the redwing mocs I've worn in 8.5D have never caused me instep pain. could be the way they were lasted, but now my Truman mocs on the 20 fit so dang good, almost bespoke feeling!

[@kingofthekludge]

i have a low volume and narrow foot, my brannock device measurement for the right foot is 9 and left is 9.5 with width in between B and C. I've always worn size 42 in european shoes and size 8.5 in US shoes. The only piece of correct information i was ever able to get from the brannock is the width of my foot; everything else is incorrect. go figure...

[@minnesota-hk1vp]

Did you get new redwing moc toes?

[@DalesLeatherworks]

No that was a pair sent to me to review!

[@minnesota-hk1vp]

@@DalesLeatherworks o cool

[@edraith]

What is a "last"?

[@edraith]

Oh, the point of the shoe. Had no idea :p

[@splashpit]

Until the shoe market gets their s$&t together and use lasts that are the same / in length l won’t be buying online.

[@djhungzilla]

Not gonna happen you're all on your own there

[@Dominicreviews]

@@djhungzilla +1

[@stephenathon]

That's not how the shoe lasting industry works lol, but you're better off indeed for buying in person. Even then it's so hard to guarantee fit without a full breakin, by which point the footwear is unreturnable.

[@georgecarlin2879]

That's like saying all women better be the same shape and height or I refuse to dance with them! LOL! Find one that fits at a store, or have a customized last made.

[@troutbumandsam5394]

Man I love your channel but you have a problem brother, sooooo many boots.....a nice one but still a problem...hahahahha/all the best troutbumandsam

[@patrickmiao1698]

Hey Dale, I have been looking into natural boot toe boxes the last few weeks and picked up a pair of Jim Green african rangers and they fit great around the toes. But I also picked up a set of boot stretchers which really help to widen the fore foot area at the vamp and toe box, you can widen that area significantly so that the toes fit in much better. www.amazon.com/dp/B077T897QY/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B077T897QY&pd_rd_w=28HeD&content-id=amzn1.sym.dd2c6db7-6626-466d-bf04-9570e69a7df0&pf_rd_p=dd2c6db7-6626-466d-bf04-9570e69a7df0&pf_rd_r=JZFC4G82MWVFRGZ9XT67&pd_rd_wg=w9acm&pd_rd_r=ec4ecb1d-c49f-48f0-b9bb-f76e98f9e0fc&s=shoes&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVkFDWk1OWlIwUVNQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTEyMzAzU0RFRzVEWE43MzBZJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyNDc3NzAyWTAxVlg4RFVHVVMzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==