Borderline Emails

[@sarabobara8458]

Really related to the first question, and for some reason when Bob said "dont worry about it its ok" I actually started to cry. I felt like he was hugging me just with the way his tone dropped when he said ok. Thank you for all you guys do, and thanks Bob for that hug feeling I guess I needed today.

[@wronggeometry]

Bob's voice always sounds so full of compassion.

[@MB-lw7uo]

That got me too! Felt like he was speaking directly to me.

[@dopeydiablo]

I wanna listen to this as I have BPD but I have an avoidant coping mechanism and my brain is making me turn away so that I don't trigger myself 🙃 I will come back to this someday. Sending warm thoughts to everyone who reads this!

[@searranolan1010]

I felt the exact same. I'm reading the comments on pause bc I'm not ready. Glad you shared so I feel less alone 🥰

[@Valoelify]

You're both such sweet people. I am diagnosed with BPD too..

[@tinyelephant77]

I so appreciate the modeling of vulnerability in the podcasts with Bob and Dr. Honda's reality show reactions. Hearing how pple can be honest with others and so open is such a lightbulb for me. These podcasts are a corrective experience for me. I'm learning how "healthier" pple can relate to one another. I'm learning it's ok to be honest and even being given the language to say how I really feel. It's such a gift. Thank you all so much.

[@marilisaracine2358]

Dr. Bob's calming voice makws me feel better. Over the internet all the way here in Canada I can feel his compassion

[@sarabobara8458]

Im in Canada as well ! New Brunswick.

[@laurarussell9354]

What Bob said about peer led groups makes a lot of sense from me. Thank you for your insight, and for your genuine vulnerability that you bravely model. It is a heartfelt kindness that you extend to this listener.

[@Blueqwerty564]

I love Bob! Thank you for always sharing and making others feel so accepted and normal. What I would wish is for Bob not to be so hard on himself, Bob is an amazing human being.

[@multibuttercup101]

Almost a year ago I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. Ive been doing weekly therapy ever since, and once covid calms down I am on the list for Group DBT! Thank you both so much for uploading this, and for being here and sharing your knowledge. I really look up to you, kirk. Youve shed so much light, thank you 🙏

[@virginialucciodonnell9623]

I appreciate this. I was diagnosed with BPD last fall and it was very upsetting. I thought it was never going to get better because there is no cure. But I’m sloughing through therapy and things are getting better slowly.

[@wronggeometry]

I am doing DBT and they emphasis a lot that you can be treated to the point of no longer meeting the criteria for BPD and so are effectively cured. I find it hard to believe sometimes, but I'm confused if you have been told there's no cure. (Not sure what my point is here, just thought I should say I have been told differently!) I am glad to hear things are getting better for you. I started DBT over a year ago but it was disrupted a lot because of covid. Even so, this is the first therapy that has actually helped me. I pushed for a diagnosis after years of involvement with mental health services, including hospitalisation and various therapies. I had given up hope of therapy working but once I was finally diagnosed and researched treatment things have fallen into place and I am confident this is going to really help me. Maybe whether or not there is a full 'cure' is open to debate, but things can definitely get way better. Best wishes to you

[@b.t.9071]

I love hearing this! There is someone in my life that I suspect may suffer with BPD and I wonder if they will ever be able to see the problems they have enough , that they to do the work. Thank you for giving me hope! The more I hear of people with BPD getting help the easier it is for me to be patient while my family member struggles and keep hope that they will seek help.

[@b.t.9071]

@@wronggeometry Ditto to what I said to the other person identifying with BDP. Thanks for sharing! Thank you for putting in the work.

[@therabbithat]

They thought it was untreatable years ago but there are lots of treatments that work for lots of people now. So glad to hear it's getting better bit by bit

[@NotAMuse]

I know we’re not entitled to but I am so appreciative that Bob shared his struggle to identify his trigger and self-soothe in that moment. I really do look up to Bob and was shaming myself for not being as empathetic and kind. Thank you for reminding me that you’re human so I’m not putting you on a pedestal unhealthily. You still inspire me and are a great role model. Today I’m reminded to forgive myself and try again.

[@micheller6804]

Yea, Bob is here! 🎉

[@PsychotherapyAnaZoreGrmek]

Thank you so much for your honesty and vulnerability. As a psychotherapist who just started my journey, it’s really refreshing and inspirational to hear two fellow therapists talking so openly about their process of basically self acceptance and how that process is never ending.

[@MariaShelleyCraft]

I was diagnosed with features of BPD/CPTSD. When I feel extremely down on myself and my diagnosis that makes me feel like a monster sometimes I read a subreddit called, "raisedbyborderlines" where people who had borderline parents go for support. But it's painful to read the things they say about people with BPD such as they should be culled and "BPD = bad people disease." I understand they are victims of abused too and dealing with that pain. But seeing this titled "borderline emails" thought this was going to be another place to make fun of the crazy things people with BPD say/do/email/text like that subreddit. I'm so relieved to see a lot of empathy for those us with BPD instead. Thank you

[@swimgirl24]

You are definitely not a monster!

[@MariaShelleyCraft]

@@swimgirl24 thank you, I decided to not have children so I don't have to subject vulnerable little people to my issues. I'll settle for being the eccentric aunt haha

[@littlefrog9553]

Maybe avoid that subreddit? Those people are coming from a place of pain, and many of them are going no-contact. Some people will focus on the negatives of their parents in order to sustain the no-contact, otherwise they might be tempted to allow their abuser back in their life. It is really, really hard to cut a parent out of your life. It hurts.

[@PhoenixtheII]

When you put in empathy, understanding, things like good vs bad disappear (kinda, the ends stretch out in reality, because there are kinds of people, that really should be seggegrated communal living (NOT PRISON)). You are not bad, they are not bad. They both have a different history making it understandable for how they FEEL. Now behavior is questionable.

[@gunita1300]

Hi from Latvia! I was so thrilled to hear your thoughts on therapists that doesn't set diagnosis or plan for therapy, because I have had 4 therapist so far here and non of them is open for that 😐

[@theredrosepedals3396]

Hi fellow Latvian! I hope you'll be alright love ❤

[@kalmuke]

Fellow Estonian here! So glad to know there are listeners from this part of the world too. ❤️

[@gunita1300]

@@kalmuke yes, me too! So unexpected! ♥️

[@gunita1300]

@@theredrosepedals3396 thank you ♥️ We all deserve it! Take care!

[@sankuperis]

Fellow Lithuanian!

[@stephaniesilvan3526]

Hi! I have been moderating several large groups for recovery from codependency (or, as Kirk would call it, "dependency") with ~20k+ members. I feel very validated in our approach, as over the years we have come to the conclusion that these groups need to be very closely monitored and moderated including individual post approval in order to prevent the "trauma echo chamber" from just ripping each other's wounds open and re-triggering each other. As admins, we take a lot of time out of our days to provide support to each other and keep each other in check. If one gets triggered, we leave the post for someone else to take care of. It's a constant effort to both allow people a voice, but not allow people to dwell on issues or detail their abuse in length. I have learned a lot over the years of doing this.

[@luvbearbut]

Wonderful cast guys!!! So enlightening and inspiring hearing a bit about you both all too human beings who happen to he therapists.. Very often we listeners, we clients, get into the whole routine of we ask you, you give the answers. It can sometimes become very formulated and create a detached, tutor/student situation. Knowing that you as therapists also deal with issues and felt comfortable enough to touch upon them, made me feel so self soothed and capable! I hung on every word Kirk was relating to Bob about the perception he puts across to others. I so often hear these things from my friends and they're also the friends who are gobsmacked when I have the rare blowout moment..

[@pandorasiceboxx]

Hi Dr Honda and Bob! This episode made me feel warm and fuzzy, and somehow heard. Thank you! ♥

[@theduchessofessex6418]

Bob is my favorite!

[@gaylewatkins6781]

In my 69 years I have had many therapists .. the majority of them were useless. Sorry.. but the one I have now is wonderful. I think people should try different therapists before they settle into one long haul...

[@evanz2704]

I agree!

[@b.t.9071]

I always make time for podcasts with Bob in them! Sometimes at work there is some fairly mindless data entry that I do and having Kirk and bob in the background encouraging good mental health is a wonderful way to pass the time! Thanks guys!

[@theveganapprentice4069]

Thank you for the great episode! I love hearing Dr. Kirk and Dr.Bob discussing emails. Bob, if you read this, I think you're incredibly brave and real. Listening to you talk makes me feel like I could see a male therapist if he was sensitive and as insightful as Bob.

[@jaclyn4098]

Love you dr kirk, keep up the good work! You are really making a difference.

[@searranolan1010]

Yikes, just reflecting on how I've treated my counselor of eight years but more so the thoughts I didn't say to her, convinced she hated me. I'm so thankful for her and feel so bad for all the times she must've felt so desperate to help me and couldn't get through to me. I'm so thankful I'm healing and she is able to walk this line with me, I know it must be so beautiful for her to see. Im so thankful I'm able to see that she does care and doesn't think I'm a total piece of garabage, even if it does come to mind at times I can easily push it out. Therapists to be- please know that your time is not wasted and her listening to me while I couldn't take her advice or heal was so important for me. I wouldn't be where I am today if she didn't help me build an attachment. There are things she has talked about for years that I couldn't grasp but now that I'm truly working to heal in many aspects I look back and realize what she was trying to get me to understand. Had she not said it and talked about it, I may not have been able to grasp it when I did.

[@evanz2704]

Hey hey hey it's Bob! 🤗♥️

[@WakeyWakeyEggsandBakey]

This is so helpful. Thank you.

[@evanz2704]

Ahaha! Your avatar/username combo made me laugh.😸🤗

[@evanz2704]

re: "uuhhhmmmmm" Bob.... happens to my friends and me too since the Pandemic! I feel it's a result of social distancing and the lack of mental stimulation you'd have in a face to face conversation with different people. 😩

[@Ami-zo7mo]

In the end of the day it does not matter if someone gaslights because that's when they decided to do or if they are in denial and do it on subconscious level. It FEELS the same and it has the same effect. The only difference is intention but it doesn't change much about how the person on receiving end feels.

[@658spruce]

Just a thought. Given that fear of abandonment is a hallmark of BPD is it wise to include discussions on how to go Grey Rock on a BPD titled episode? You mentioned your friend feeling that being silently hated and rejected would be the worst thing after answering an email on how to do that 😬 (not literally, but it could be perceived that way). Not saying it's not valuable information nor do I want to infantalize other listeners with BPD. It's just we started the episode discussing not leaning in to triggering language or ideas. Acknowledging that I'm not the specialist, just an enthusiastic patron :)

[@olgahomonchuk8014]

Yeah I too was wondering whether it would be painful or triggering for people with BPD to listen to that at the end :/

[@therabbithat]

When we are symptomatic it's ok if our friends need a break, it doesn't mean they don't love us. Grey rock can also be a way for friends to keep themselves from being triggered, saying stuff they don't mean, and hurting others. It's self care and it doesn't say anything about the person being grey rocked so I hope people don't feel hurt ☹️ also it's a skill anyone can use because we all have people in our lives who trigger us sometimes

[@nicolebam3780]

I wonder if you mention c-ptsd vs bpd

[@Sforeczka]

Could you sometime address the fact that those of us living with chronic mental illness are not "crazy," nor can you write everyone we deem "crazy" is living with mental illness. For instance, I keep hearing about how the rioters at the Capitol on January 6 are mentally ill. Do you know what I mean? My chronic illness, which I work hard to manage and do pretty well - I'm not at the Capitol breaking windows or whatever - does not make me "crazy." Talk amongst yourselves.

[@TheQuaah]

I think it ties back to stigma. As someone with chronic mental health fluctuations myself, I can see how labeling the protestors as crazy and mentally ill is society’s way of shaming their behavior instead of addressing the root issues that led to that behavior. It’s dismissive (I’m tempted to agree because I don’t approve of their actions too) but at the end of the day I don’t believe dismissal will solve the issues or prevent them from reappearing in new or worse forms.

[@deadfishize]

Wow, someone else from Latvia!

[@kimf1993]

I'm so early today! Yes, I can tell that's not your dog. A much bigger Bork.

[@laynestaley6512]

12:27 I laugh so hard that part and it hurts my stomach. 🤣 I feel you bob, i always forget about something what i want to say.

[@iwantme1234]

You should react to the HBO show Undoing.

[@emeraldpilgrimfireuma]

Cute Bob!

[@bec7080]

As someone with BPD I think that some people, including professionals, are overreactive towards people with BPD. I think that they act like it's an end of the world diagnosis but it's not. I honestly think that people want the label because they think that it's an excuse to be able to act as extreme as they want in certain circumstances and they get to say "I have BPD so I can get away with this!".

[@Trys_Kapeikos]

People want to get the diagnosis because it gives an answer, an explanation of what is happening with their emotions. Its a relief, end of searching. Imagine if it was some body pain and noone would give you a diagnosis and treatment of this pain - you would go crazy looking for answers..

[@BlackCampariBlue]

@@Trys_Kapeikos I'm trying to understand whats going on with me, to be able to verbalize anything of the chaos inside me in order to have some orientation and the possibility to get emotional support, to eventually get better. Thats why I've been hoping to get a fitting diagnosis for what is going on with me. Part of that inner chaos though are also self-doubts about me just wanting the attention, trying to be special, searching for excuses and so on. What is wrong with me for having that deep need to name whatever this is? You're comment resonated so deeply with me and validated in my need

[@Haleyrosey]

would you ever do a video about Trisha Paytas & all her dramas she has been in?

[@littlefrog9553]

This is a compelling idea! He has reacted to some of the Frenemies episodes, but I wonder how he would do this, given how long and unedited her own content tends to be.

[@lukaszs4041]

"likes having fun with me and getting paid for it"....you paying extra for that Bobby?!

[@janetrawlings1691]

My dog is not barking but when I hear borderline I run

[@lannaintajak80]

❤🙏

[@whatkatydid7901]

Jeeeez, 10mins into this and Bob sounds like he’s teetering on the precipice of a breakdown. I’m sure he’s a lovely dude, but if my therapist sounded this hopelessly depressed, I’d be looking for a new therapist. He sounds like a sweet guy, but kinda Eeyore personified.

[@TheQuaah]

I’d like to think that Bob is being vulnerable here. In a safe setting with a friend, he may feel more comfortable being human in this way. I’d also like to think that in a professional setting when seeing clients, he models a more positive and uplifting side to himself. No judgment to you, but I think it’s unfair to assume he would be like this as a therapist at work.

[@zarsinoe2467]

😍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🐯

[@c1rcl3s]

I listened to almost this whole thing and it all just reaffirmed my belief that therapy is completely useless. Especially the guy who kept saying how sad everything is. How incredibly useless and a waste of money

[@kristinph8005]

Science shows that therapy is beneficial for many mental health issues. I find it helpful although it took a few therapists, time, and mindset changes for it to be helpful for me. But it's not necessarily everyone's cup of tea 🍵

[@KC69134]

I am so frustrated by the rant about gaslighting. Psychology does not own the language. First and foremost, let's remember language is not stagnant: it evolves, that's the nature of language. That's why English speakers don't speak Old English. The term "gaslighting" arose from a play and later movie (1938 I think?) in which a man attempts to drive his wife insane (or think she's insane) and one of the ways was to have the old gaslights flash, and then when the wife notes it deny it happened. The result is to have her questioning her reality and perceptions, not trust her own judgment, not trust her own eyes. This is a pretty recent addition to the language, and it does not solely require the behavior to be part of a campaign or with the intent to drive someone insane. While some (including the OED) stick to the attempt to drive someone insane requirement, a review of different dictionaries will show this not to be the case: - American Heritage: To psychologically manipulate (someone) so that they question their memories, perception, or sanity - Collins: If someone is gaslighted, they are controlled by someone who makes them believe things about themselves that are not true. - Cambridge: to trick or control someone by making them believe things that are not true, especially by suggesting that they may be mentally ill The term has gained a lot more currency in the last 10-15 years as this kind of behavior has been identified as an often very gendered form of abuse. Women are informed in a plethora of ways throughout their lives their emotions aren't valid and they really must be perceiving things incorrectly (you're overly sensitive; you are ruled by emotion not rational thought; why are you making this in to such a big deal?; you're probably PMSing so whatever you are feeling isn't valid; you're probably on your period so whatever you are feeling isn't valid; you're probably going through menopause so whatever you are feeling isn't valid), so to listen to a man declare his definition is the only definition is pretty tone deaf. And further, ongoing evolution of the language points to how the term is now being applied to actions by political leaders. We saw just a few weeks ago that a mob was incited to insurrection to stop the the democratic process of the legislative branch of our government formalizing the results of the electoral college, by the then head of the executive branch who happened to be the loser, by manipulating his followers through telling lies about the election over and over and over again. I think this is a fair and interesting evolution of the language. We'll just have to wait and see how long it taped the OED to adopt it.