Both The Volkswagen Taos AND Subaru Crosstrek REALLY Struggle Off-Road, But Which One Does Better?

[@joemattes8389]

Your slip roller test should be everyone’s gold standard.

[@jakegolliher2891]

People have been doing roller tests for years

[@deejayimm]

@@jakegolliher2891 I watched roller tests like 15 years ago in Europe. Some people actually build them into a concrete slope.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@jakegolliher2891 Indeed 👍

[@cooverbennett4383]

Ya I hate it when I'm out in the sticks and I get stuck on a set of rollers somebody hid on the trail.

[@deejayimm]

@@cooverbennett4383 hahaha it's not a bad test of power distribution though.

[@archiebunker3654]

Seriously, if you want to go "offroading", meaning no road at all, going down dried riverbeds and up really steep inclines, get a proper 4x4 with decent power/torque, big grippy tires, front and rear lockers, heavy trans and transfer cases and all the rest. You can make the Crosstrek into a decent soft-roader or even better with the right mods. Subbies are great for what they are, I own two '18 Crosstreks and they're fantastic for doing what they're designed for. Economical, year-round, any weather, daily drivers with a nice usable hatch and decent room for stuff. They're even really good with very little mods at blasting down gravel roads, mine has the BFG K02's with some proper rock-deflecting flaps and even then it's a decent soft-roader, but I know it's limitations for the way I have it set up and it hasn't disappointed me, not once.

[@davep2945]

Since we always say tires make a big difference perhaps do an episode where you change the tires for good all terrains on these two and see if they actually fare better.

[@sking2173]

^ Ole Dave here bought an all-terrain tire for his wheelbarrow because he uses it on his gravel driveway ...

[@davep2945]

@@sking2173 Not yet because TFL hasn't shown me that it would work better! Lol.

[@ldv5831]

I help recover a couple of these sorts of cross overs almost every week when I’m out camping. The first thing I tell the owners is to not believe the fancy brochures. Rather learn the vehicles capabilities and work within its range. If you have some skills, you can go places, but with these cars, the driver needs the skills as you can’t rely on the cars capabilities to compensate.

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

Funny because I've pulled a tacoma and a jeep out of the snow with my crosstrek. They got stuck when I didnt.

[@Uberragen21]

I managed to get up a 30ish degree incline of small & medium rocks in my Gen 2 Tiguan with stock minivanesque tires. That was on a mountain fire road not too dissimilar to what Tommy was driving on. It did way better than I expected, having no issues whatsoever. I do wish it had at least a mechanical limited slip diff in the front or rear. I was trying to find a limited slip diff or lunchbox locker to throw into the rear, but it seems I'm the only person in the VW community interested (or silly enough) in doing that.

[@LigerZeroFtw]

@@danieljackson-woods6225 Crosstrek does pretty good in the snow but once you get on a steep trail with low traction and a unlevel surface the cvt absolutely shoots itself in the foot. There's a reason why subaru wouldn't give any vehicles to tfl after they tested the outback and showed just how bad they were. Cvt ruins any capability subaru claims to have.

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

@@LigerZeroFtw never had an issue with traction or the cvt in mine and I hit some pretty hard trails and OHV areas and have never had trouble. Granted the crosstrek isn't a rock crawler but I've had no issues with mine over the 3 years I've had it.

[@LigerZeroFtw]

@@danieljackson-woods6225 They are definitely great cars for what they are and im sure they're very capable when in the hands of someone who knows how to use it but i would definitely go for the manual. I stay away from cvts regardless of manufacturer.

[@Zanderthelab]

I know you guys do a lot of slip tests, but I can’t thank you enough for doing them over and over again, it makes a difference in my eyes. Please continue to do this as much as possible. Also, do it with more vehicles. I’ve never seen it with the Cherokee Trailhawk before, could you guys do this?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Roller tests are a piece of cake for Cherokee. There's even no need for Trailhawk to pass all of them.

[@sonny1597]

Just bought a 2021 Crosstrek Sport .. was going to go with the 6 speed but the extra 30 hp got me. I immediately lifted mine 2" .. and added Toyo AT3's and a front skid plate. Just got back from Moab where I was able to do Gemini Bridges rd, Shaffer trail, the back door into Arches .. no problem and getting 30 mpg.

[@FreeRangeLemon]

That’s awesome. I just bought my first car, a 2000 Subaru Outback 5Spd. I am hoping to get a 4” lift but otherwise the same.

[@chir0pter]

Are those the same trails that the 2wd Crown Vic did...lol

[@sonny1597]

@Stop Deleting Me Why?

[@joel57123]

@@chir0pter 1

[@jamesmyers9150]

Those are all gravel roads not really offroad tracks unless it's raining

[@jeremiah56088]

One of the interesting things about the TAOS is that a lot of owners purchase a odbd programmer module and change the drive by wire setting from a "ramp up" curve to a "direct" curve which helps with the pedal modulation issues that people report.

[@ColoradoSailing]

We replaced our 2013 Crosstrek with a 2022 Taos…love it! We live on a dirt road at 7,313 ft elevation…the Taos is solid in the snow and inspires confidence. For climbing, the Taos owner’s manual says to manually select gears to avoid the DSG acceleration issues you guys experienced.

[@TheMonicagal]

What made you pick the Taos over the Crosstrek? I'm trying to decide, thank you!

[@ColoradoSailing]

@@TheMonicagal the 2.0L Crosstrek is underpowered and sluggish, especially at our altitude. They offer a 2.5L now, but it’s not a turbo. The 1.5L turbo in the Taos has strong acceleration and great gas mileage. Also, the 4Motion (AWD) Taos is equipped with a limited-slip rear differential.

[@tnickknight]

What always hits me first is the great relationship he has with his kid.

[@JohnDoe-zw8vx]

Their cheap jeep build videos showed it well too. When they were in the shop working on modifications and handing tools back and forth, reminded me of when I used to help my dad. 🥲

[@tomd1914]

I recently chose the Crosstrek as I wanted a car that will get me to work everyday with good gas mileage, and still get me to my favorite hiking trails, hidden campsites, and snowboarding areas. It should work out well. I don’t do any heavy duty off-roading, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well it climbs.

[@shitloveaduck]

That CVT in the Crosstrek is made by Subaru and not the Aisen cookie cutter transmissions out there and the like.

[@YouTubeCensorsAndSuppresses]

2024 Update: CVT 100% made in Japan by Subaru. It uses a chain for initial torque transfer. Also now uses Torque Vectoring to transfer wheelspin to grip wheels. But yes you need the 2.5!

[@shitloveaduck]

@@KZbinCensorsAndSuppresses - my wife just ordered a Limited 2.5 Crosstrek (Canadian spec). The test drive was impressive. The ride & handling is very different than the 2021 my niece has. The performance is somewhat better as well. If you mess with the paddle shifters it gets to be fun. Looking forward to seeing her driving her brand new vehicle!! With the current price trends for new vehicles, it may be the last new vehicle we will own,,,,,,,.

[@carzarmy]

When driving offroad use manual mode, it helps the cvt stay in one gear ratio and makes crawling up hills a breeze. Keeping the cvt in Auto is similar to going into high gear to crawl up a steep hill.

[@milan_spasić]

But then Subaru and CVT would actually look good, which is not what they want. They want street tires and no X-mode plus burnt clutch.

[@lesrose1989]

I have a 21 Crosstrek. It does not have paddle shifters anymore, but it does have a low range for the trans, and coupled with X-mode, it’s not bad at all. I live in Northern Minnesota lake country, so not exactly flat land driving where I live, and the winter is obviously formidable.

[@endrizo]

that is unaceptable. the system should sense the situation and set itself for the climb. the car knows its going upwars or climbing...so... full auto.. come on.

[@441meatloaf]

@@lesrose1989 Uhh mine does. Did you buy the bottom rung convenience pack model?

[@KettleRiseRanch]

I have the larger engine in my crosstrek. It’s good in the snow and rain but it’s not made to go where they are taking it. I have a rubicon and I can tell you these are fully different use case vehicles. I love both for fully different reasons. Overall a 28k Subi and a 60 k Jeep are just not really comparable.

[@KTMcaptain]

Who’s comparing them to a Rubi? And you can get into one for under $40k. Especially a JL with tread lightly stripped order from a forum friendly dealer.

[@mynock250]

Subaru advertises it as an off road capable vehicle clearly it is not.

[@johnreese3762]

I think these guys are bitter because Subaru wouldn't give them a test car. They buy one and tell everyone how bad it is. I didn't buy my "Sport" to do the crap they're doing. I love mine and no problems at all!!

[@KTMcaptain]

@@johnreese3762 you sound like a triggered Subaru owner. Their review was extremely fair and many xtrek owners do use them for similar situations. The Subaru was clearly better than the VW here, so I don’t know what you’re complaining about.

[@johnreese3762]

@@KTMcaptain As mentioned by Brian, The Subaru wasn't meant to do this. The next test these guys do will be a C8 Corvette and complain about ground clearance.

[@haystack-is-back]

Just bought a 2021 Subaru crosstrek 6 speed and I love it, i think the manual is way more capable than the cvt, being in maine I can get into some really remote places with the manual

[@ScarletKnightmare]

6mt nice!

[@IronmanV5]

If only they offered that with the 2.5, or better yet the turbo 2.4

[@Spike-13]

I agree, my Impreza stick shift has got through alot of mud, snow, steep grades, etc and performed great

[@taraaaron1242]

It's amazing how much a real transmission matters. The cvt is hurting this car and subaru in general, meaning it's off road performance. Manual is the better option

[@haystack-is-back]

@@IronmanV5 I agree it is pretty slow😂 Subaru definitely needs to update there line up

[@matthewg.4238]

Let’s be real 99% of people who buy vehicles with “off-road capabilities” never go off roading.

[@kirksmith347]

Everyone I work with who bought a gladiator and Wrangler have not gone offroading once. They bought their cars to look cool. Off-roading is a very niche market.

[@gs98999]

At the same time I doubt anyone actually buys either of these with any sort of off-roading in mind. These are basically what Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla were 20 years ago to today’s buyers.

[@kimcloud8995]

I'd argue more subaru owners do outdoorsy activities like kayaking camping mtn biking than jeep owners go rock crawling or sport car owners go to the track.

[@gs98999]

Probably true. I see tons of subarus at trail heads, park lots, camp areas. I’ve never seen anything other than jeeps, Toyotas, domestic trucks or an odd old Nissan on actual off road trails. These type of vids show why. Yes they may do a bit better if you lift, air down ect, but you’re still nowhere near what a stock 4runner or wrangler can do.

[@jrkin]

This is true, I take my trek trailing and camping all the time but I'm 1 out of many Toyota, jeep, etc. Well the goal is bronco anyway...

[@MrTopgear67]

My wife owns a base bright pumpkin 2018 Crosstrek, it’s a great little car. We live on mountain gravel road, it’s climbing the 14 degree hills without issue. It wears Hakkapeliita 8 studded for the winter as the road is mostly iced…the gas consumption is probably one of the best on the market, it takes only 1/3 of our Jeep Gladiator Mojave…

[@tylerrichey8002]

Well ones a car and one is a truck..

[@tommymas1]

Note how well the Crosstrek did up "Truth" once he disengaged the VDC. Furthermore, if he had placed it in Manual, the CVT crawls much better.

[@Crazyced]

This is an interesting point!

[@BrentODell]

This actually increases my confidence in the Crosstrek, given that it did ok with the small engine(vs the 2.5 on the Sport and Limited in 2023) and stock tires. Having owned a 1999 Outback years ago, I know how much tires can change things off road.

[@EvilClowns69]

I have a Subaru Crosstrek it’s one of the best cars I’ve had in the snow for a small SUV

[@taraaaron1242]

If that's the case I feel sorry for you 😆. Or you must not take it on any real off road 😉

[@gobear83]

@@taraaaron1242 over 90% of people who buy the Crosstrek don’t go off road with them….that’s the real world It’s a great all around vehicle ….stop dissing people’s choices not cool

[@vedder10]

@@taraaaron1242 Having you been paying attention or just in your own little world. 90% of vehicle buyers don't take any vehicles for serious off-roading. They just like having a vehicle with the appearance of ruggedness and off-road capability. Even "Trail rated" Cherokee's and Grand Cherokee's rarely see any serious off-roading.

[@tylerrichey8002]

Well if we were bringing facts here the crosstrek is not an suv.... it's a Impreza I don't understand why nobody can see that. It's just a different trim level without the Impreza name so they can sell it for more. Its basically like the new version of the Impreza outback. Same car with stupid shit added to it. And people that "buy" them for off road dont take them on real trails or have to put a bit of money into them witch is pointless just buy a real SUV with real power and real 4wd

[@TonyCox1351]

@@taraaaron1242 he never said anything about off road, he said snow, which probably means on snowy paved roads, not sure why you’d feel sorry for him, Crosstrek’s are great cars

[@Pcfly]

Crosstrek! 👍🏽 It’s even easier to factor in after talking about long term reliability and ownership cost between anything else you mentioned…….maybe aside from the Bronco Sport which we will know more about within a few years. Tommy……dad still has his Subaru hate all over his body, it spews out before he even starts to talk about it. 😂 Also Tommy, you have the right idea about the Crosstrek, it’s the basic city escape tool that will do enough for the average outdoorsmen and will exceed anything that is needed for everyday. You guys are pushing these to the limit of what they can do which is good but also tying a negative connotation to something that works…..they aren’t a 4x4 replacement. They don’t have all the extra nonsense issues that 4x4s have in terms of maintenance and ownership cost which is not ideal or needed for the average person……these little cars work great for what they are.

[@hiiiofficial8306]

TAOS

[@gffriedman]

Neither

[@curt2742]

What kind of maintenance/ ownership costs?

[@jessebrinker3706]

Subaru and long-term reliability do not belong in the same sentence

[@MrTOMYLB]

The clutches in that DSG might be toasted by now. So sorry for the future buyer of that TAOS.

[@DurangoRTGuy2019]

One reason I won’t buy used

[@v_n_bot]

One reason not to buy DSG

[@nh_2923]

It has a DSG with wet clutches (in Oil), so they shouldn‘t be toasted that bad.

[@huntersmith8338]

The taos without the dsg is the one to buy.

[@reestyfarts]

@@huntersmith8338 With all those plastic engine parts?

[@biggkoz]

Tires are everything here, who would go off-roading up a hill with street tires? The spinning would be greatly reduced with better traction tires.

[@mo-215]

No offense, but honestly the vast majority of buyers and drivers of this class of vehicle are going to do exaclty that.....drive these on dirt roads and ascents with the factory street tires, which to me makes it fairly accurate testing. You, or someone knowledgeable like my ranching wife, may know to use different tires.

[@JodyH66]

Econo-box cars don't go off-road that great. Is anyone surprised? I say this as the owner of a +2" lifted Crosstrek with up-sized AT tires. The 10" of ground clearance and more tire grip and sidewall are awesome on rough washboard gravel roads and the occasional slightly high water crossing I come across on my way to nice camping spots or plowing through snow drifts on my work commute.

[@ThisGuyRides]

True, but there are people who claim Subarus are better off road than regular 4x4s.

[@MrSlicer2424]

26k econo box? So sad

[@RKmndo]

You make me start to wonder what constitutes an "econobox" these days. My YJ had a base MSRP of under $9K. Gas was under $1/gal. The '97 TJ debuted at the end of '95 with a base MSRP under $10K. My Rio Grande YJ wasn't great right off the showroom floor, but disco the anti-swaybar, remove the trackbars, move the front brakelines under the framerails, and air down...the YJ became a pretty decent wheeler. 30" siped MTs, lunchbox lockers, and a winch even made it considerably MORE better. The Suzuki Samurai was even still around back then.

[@DarkStorm388]

It's obvious these guys hate Subaru @ 25:50. "It did it but it didn't really do it". 🤣. The Subaru did everything they wanted it to do but yet they still hate.

[@rallysauruswrex]

so true

[@williamsmith5462]

True

[@SubieandFriends]

Yea I agree with you, this people hate Subaru so much that they “bought” a Subaru just to talk bad about it, yet every other “expert” reviewer has praised the off-road capabilities of Subaru’s crosstreks,Outback and foresters...they are able to conquer amazing difficult off-road terrain....yet TFL can’t even conquer simple off-road obstacles with their Subaru’s.... makes we wonder why??

[@DarkStorm388]

@@SubieandFriends if you go back 7 years and watch their review of the "all new" 2014 Subaru Forester with the CVT and X-mode they say they are really impressed with the off-road capabilities of it and how amazing the all wheel drive system is. Now all they do is talk crap about it.

[@SubieandFriends]

@@DarkStorm388 I guess that’s before they messed up their relationship with Subaru, they used to love everything about Subaru’s symmetrical all wheel drive and how it was the best in the business.

[@rolexr]

X-Mode ON……VDC OFF. That’s the key for the best off-road performance on a CROSSTREK!!! Because the traction control is totally regulating the power DOWN! You can put your foot through the floor and nothing happens that’s normal with VDC on!

[@iamjasonfoster]

Beat me to this comment, thank you

[@SimonShaws]

Agree, X-mode on and VDC on is fine for downhill. Traction control off I think. Crawling over rocks, xmodes not bad. My main complaint re the Crosstrek is approach angle and lack of underbody protection. I drive city 99% of time, the Crosstrek is great for the times I want to go places your average city car can't without having to drive a tank everywhere.

[@rolexr]

@@SimonShaws …you’re absolutely right my friend. And I do have a steel engine and differential skid plate under my Crosstrek/ XV (in Europe) originally from SUBARU.

[@SimonShaws]

Guy from subaru club has nose angled up for better protection, old turbo forester, off road tyres, underbody protection, climbs sandhills like a dream. Would make mincemeat of that trail in the vid.

[@SimonShaws]

@John Stone for steep descents, i agree its annoying, for crawling over rocks, its not bad.

[@ostmk496]

These all-wheel drive systems are good for some snow and for every day driving, but they are not made for offroading

[@TFLcar]

The other 2 guys just called this a dirt road so which is it 🤔

[@MemphisMojo15s]

@@TFLcar dirt road with a steep hill that combines the 2 for a small off road adventure. Nothing drastic, just not a place for most "AWD" cars

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

Having taken my Crosstrek through almost all offroad trails and OHV areas in Oregon I can safely say they are more than capable offroad. TFL sadly does test them properly. No serious offroader hits trails with full tire psi, then they shit on those that lift their subaru and add offroad tires without ever testing it. It's why they had to buy a subaru because subaru won't loan them cars anymore because they are biased against these cars that are more capable than they want to admit.

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

@@underthelibertytree712 and yet I've tackled worse hills and trails than what they show in the video with my 2018 trek and have never had an issue with the cvt nor have I ever gotten stuck

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

@@underthelibertytree712 naw there is a reason subaru doesn't loan them cars anymore, they are oppositional biased against them. That's why they had to buy this red crosstrek. And im not biased. I know the crosstrek and other subies will never be real off readers but they are more capable than tfl makes them out to be. I'm a realist and I offroad in both my trek and a rebel on 40s. So I know what it can and cannot do.

[@stumptownwoodworks]

I have a Forester and I'm 100% ok with how they test Subaru. Everyone getting upset or saying they can go all those places or worse...good for you, but you're missing the point and not being objective. The bulk of people buying these go camping a few times a year and will try to go on some Forest roads to camp sites. When they try to get off the beaten path a bit for dispersed camping is when they "could" run into issues. If you know about airing down and have means to air your tires back up...then congrats you are the top 5 or 10% of subi owners. You probably downsize the wheels, and upsized the tires because the stock ones are straight trash. And maybe a puck lift. And unless you have underbody skid plates, momentum is not your friend. You always want to go as slow as possible, as fast as necessary. That's why they stall out so much on these hills. Keep up the good work TFL!

[@jaybou007]

Coffee ready, breakfast ready: another sunday morning starting well with a TFL video.

[@HarryKuloh]

Tommy, i agree.

[@1106843]

I have a 2017 forester xt, and you just gotta know how “off road” worthy it really is. It kills snow (not deep stuff), and does decent on fire roads. Really though, it’s a comfortable, mildly quick daily. People really need to figure out how they are going to use a vehicle before they buy it, and not mod it to look like what they should of bought.

[@jackrandom4893]

My 2018 Outback burned oil.

[@ropersix]

@@jackrandom4893 All Subaru engines burned oil, with Subaru saying one quart every 2K miles was acceptable. But buyers started to not like that (especially the ones who don't know how to check the oil), there was a class action lawsuit, and now the "problem" is fixed.

[@jackrandom4893]

@@ropersix Yep. I fixed it. I traded it in for a different car. I will miss the AWD but I can't beat the gas mileage of my Honda especially now that gas prices have skyrocketed.

[@Noah_E]

I put a set of Toyo Open Country ATs on my Forester XT and it is an off road champ. I have been using it on my 26 acre parcel with no roads since Aug 2015 without issue. On the other hand my 4x4 F350 has gotten stuck several times. The torque of the diesel just digs holes or it sinks where Subaru just works without drama

[@alien7161]

@@jackrandom4893 What are you getting in the honda? I have a Crosstrek 6m and I get 38 on the highway (not hypermiling)

[@tnickknight]

Note, he has not had really good sourdough bread.

[@svenglueckspilz3331]

Probably never had a proper sourdough bread. But could be hard to find in a society that loves industrial food.

[@jcollins1305]

Get a loaf of rye bread from Rockland bakery in NY, and you’ll see the light!

[@Rocketfish17]

Next time you're doing the roller test on a VW with 4motion, you should compare the snow mode to off road mode. Snow mode may be better for the slip test due to changing the power and throttle control

[@nathanm6143]

I think this was a really fair assessment of the car's abilities, and the roller test is a nice touch to see what happens when any given wheel loses traction. Test like these are what lead me to buy a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk because I needed the additional off road ability that others in the segment just don't have. The trade off is that I had to pay more in terms of price and a reduction in MPG. Had I intended to just stay on snowy/icy paved roads, these two would have been adequate...I find myself watching these videos because I am rooting for the underdog, but the strain that it puts on these cars trying to offroad is going to drastically shorten their shelf life

[@KTMcaptain]

KL is an excellent platform and showcases what a crossover can do. If I were Subaru, then I’d build a Xtrek STi mode for $35k base that has the STi driveline, portal planetary hubs, and a button to engage the planetary reduction. Plus clear out the fenders for 33” tires. Give it a real low range, real traction devices at all 3 differentials, and give it the ability to use high traction tires.

[@deejayimm]

Or they could do a comparison between the Crosstrek with the CVT and the Crosstrek with the manual transmission and see what that platform is truly capable of, but they refuse to do so. I'm not even a Subaru fan and I don't understand why they won't show a manual transmission Subaru to prove once and for all that it's the transmission holding the rest of the vehicle back. After all everyone claims the drivetrain is so amazing, and from what I've seen the older Subarus were legitimately really good off road.

[@nathanm6143]

@@deejayimm That would be an interesting comparison, but for me personally, I'm a lefty that never bothered to learn to drive a stick, so I'd only want an automatic. Subaru also eliminated most of the standard safety features on the manual as well, so you would get far less for the money, and that is why they account for only 10% of sales. I believe that the older Subarus had more off-road worthiness than the new ones, but I'm not sure if that is because of the transmission type

[@deejayimm]

@@nathanm6143 I've been left handed my whole life and I've always preferred manuals. Of course I live in the United States where we sit on the left side of the car and shift with our right hand, making manual transmissions natural for lefties as we can keep our dominant hand on the wheel. I've always thought it's interesting that less than 10% of the population are left-handed, and less than 10% of vehicle sold have manual transmissions. I'm not so sure I would like them as much if I had to take my dominant hand off the wheel in order to shift gears, so I can see why right handed people might not prefer it. The only reason I suspect it's the transmission is because you never hear anyone talk about Subaru's drivetrain being worse than it used to be, just the CVT bogging down refusing to put power to the wheels. A normal torque converter automatic would also make a great comparison, but they don't make those so I would like to see the manual compared to the CVT just to prove it's the transmission and not the drivetrain.

[@ToymakersToolbox]

I don't have a dog in this fight (I'm a 4Runner guy) but you folks do seem to pretty relentlessly complain that Subarus aren't Jeep enough. I think someone who wanted to use their Crosstrek for this would have specced it out very differently from that base model. At least with decent rubber. I see Crosstreks with decent build-outs deep in the national forests around me all the time; maybe ya'll should team up with someone who's done a lot with them offroad or overlanding and find out what it is exactly that you're missing about them.

[@garymatter8306]

4 things. Better rubber. Lift. Rear locker. Centre clutch upgrade.

[@AustinH7]

AWDs literally will never be able to be even close to as good as a 4wd. Taking an AWD into intermediate and hard trails is just asking for trouble, and an expensive recovery bill. I’m not trying to be insulting but i see this all the time, people think they can do anything in their AWD and end up getting into dangerous situations.

[@FantomLightning]

I'd love to see other CVTs on this course. You guys have demonstrated time and time again the Subaru CVT won't send enough power through in low traction situations, but I'd love to see how other manufacturers CVTs would perform.

[@LukeEdward]

LITERALLY looking at Taos videos. Thanks, y’all.

[@w0by]

VW is usually a tank in the Snow, Love it

[@crisp_dude6073]

You also have to remember this is the base model the other models as you go up has a bigger engine then redefined off roading options the crostrek they're driving is basically a great in town and okay on the trails my XV crosstrek I owned I took it down the mountains where I drove through rivers and deep into the woods no problems up a steep mountain rough terrain steep inclines and if you notice he will randomly stop instead of keeping momentum like when they test other vehicles they seem to put a little more speed in to the beginning

[@marktaylor171]

The thing about the XV is that it had to be restricted quite a lot to get that boxer to be fuel efficient. A few modifications and a torq locker, and it can be quite the beast off road. These tests are all about factory equipment, of course.

[@jface3806]

From experience, driving a Suby really teaches you the art of picking the line 😆

[@svenglueckspilz3331]

Hi TFLC Team, Like the quite professional film making and funny (ironic) way of your presentations. Your points of comparison: 1. Price: VW 28% more expensive, or Subaru 22% less expensive. 1 point for Subaru 2. Interior design: VW interesting seat cover (uhhh), else both bland. 1 point for VW 3. interior space: VW more roomy, Subaru livable. 1 point for VW 4. Slip Test with Off-road mode: VW 2 fails, Subaru 0.5 fails (Note: if I am stuck in a snow drift I don't care for 10seconds more to free myself, but that is me). 1 point for Subaru So a draw, kind of. What I miss: Approach angle, break-over angle, departure angle? Cargo capacity? Fuel consumption? Engine power and torque comparison? What I do not understand is the problem of the CVT. Is the CVT the problem or the torque converter? My limited knowledge is that the torque converter will only engage fully once a certain drive train speed is reached and it switches from slipping to fixed transmission (like a regular clutch). Could this be the limiting factor rather than the CVT? Can you, or the community verify, whether it is helpful to switch off traction control when engaging X-mode on the Subaru? I have fun watching, though would appreciate a reply.

[@dhanesh9999]

Good point I been thinking about. Engine power and torque differ a lot between these two vehicles. If some journalists talk about torque curve, final drive ratio etc, I call that a fact check 😊

[@ropersix]

I have an old Impreza, and while it was advertised as a rally car, I never used it for that. I was smart enough to figure out what it's actually capable of (without employing a full-time mechanic). Same thing with these small SUV's. Most people know they're really only meant for light duty when it comes to dirt roads. Although videos like this help figure it out.

[@SeanDuu]

Reading the comments prove love is what makes a subaru a subaru, not its off-road ability.

[@haroldbeauchamp3770]

Must be love. It certainly isn’t anything else.

[@solarfry]

Next time I’m off the beaten path I’ll look for rollers to get stuck on.

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

Having driven my crosstrek offroad for the last 3 years I have had no issues on any trails or OHV areas. And never had the cvt become an issue at all

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

@Jay Zhang I've taken it through the Oregon dunes national park, Browns camp which is an OHV area in oregon and through trails at lava beds National monument and many other with more difficult trails than what TFL shows in their videos. If you struggles in your onyx xt then the fault falls on the driver not the vehicle. We have a whole group for offroad cross6rek enthusiasts in the pnw who tackle worse trails than what is shown in this video.

[@danieljackson-woods6225]

@Jay Zhang or be smart and just search KZbin for any offroading subaru video and you'll find plenty of people tackling worse trails than what tfl puts up against them.

[@stephenhendricks103]

Would you have taken a Golf off-road? No? Well, despite the SUVish costume the Taos is in effect the replacement for the basic Golf (now discontinued) in VW's North American portfolio. Though about 6" longer than the Golf it's still a small vehicle (174" long) designed for the jungle of urban/suburban traffic with extremely generous interior space for its size. No plastic cladding and 7" ground clearance, the Taos is designed for the occasional "challenge" of a gravel road combined with comfortable travel for a couple or small family on a highway or backroad. Nothing wrong with that focus. Just as there's nothing wrong with the CrossTrek's somewhat more successful focus on off-road use while sacrificing the interior space of the Taos. But to give the Taos its due it's important to recognize that it's a basic Golf tailored for Americans' obsession with SUVs.

[@bigglyguy8429]

I off-road a lot in SE Asia with a Crosstrek and a Hilux. A HUGE difference here is we're often dealing with mud, and that VW would not grip at all with all that jerking

[@Kman09JGC]

Had a 2018 crosstrek limited. For what it is it’s a great all weather car. It’s not an off road vehicle.

[@TFLcar]

We love the little Crosstrek but you are correct it struggles off-road when it gets a bit more technical.

[@MarksTech]

Agreed. I have the 2021 sport, and x mode 2 really helps, but its still not a hardcore off-road car. Although, I did take it on some jeep trails last week and a few jeep owners started clapping when I made it through one of the trails lol fun little ‘all around’ car

[@jaspercammaer1926]

The VW's hill decent should be on automatically in offroad mode. If the car detects a hill steep enough it will maintain this speed. If you find this to be too quick, you can use the brake to slow the car down, if you then release the brake the car will maintain this new slower speed. This is at least how the hill-decent in a Passat Alltrack works It is quite intuitive if i am honest, never had any issues with it.

[@fartman10284]

Good thing you bought your own Subaru. Because after this, Subaru won’t give you any more cars to sample (again)

[@chir0pter]

been that way since 2014 lol

[@ryzenforce]

@@chir0pter Soon VW will join like Ford did lol

[@chir0pter]

@@ryzenforce I don't think they're still on bad terms with Ford

[@chir0pter]

@Stop Deleting Me nah they're not mad, they're just pointing out CVT subies suck offroad

[@AustinH7]

Tell the truth about these vehicles or lie just to be able to sample them?

[@phxdesert4464]

All season tires aren't for off road. Put a set of wranglers on & lets see what happens

[@coraltheexplorer6753]

VW all the way! And we have VW and Subaru in our family lol. while cross shopping the VW atlas and Subi Ascent, the atlas was such a more bang for your buck over the Ascent as far as comfort and everyday driving… next to switch my 18 wrx for a golf R :)

[@alannewhall2323]

These are mostly driven on the road. Be interesting to see a comparison of these cars driving during bad weather on the road or interstate. Maybe Pikes peak or something like that.

[@RKmndo]

One can be upgraded with... - Winch. - Diff locker. - Skids. - Adjustable coilovers. - Siped 235/75R15 ATs/MTs. - High-clearance hitch. Air down the tires. Disco the anti-swaybar.

[@thehammerwell]

I think you guys are confused on how a CVT works. It has a chain and pulleys linked to the engine by a torque converter. The issue is Subaru's programming, it is too aggressive. The traction control is clamping down on all four wheels, while torque management is pulling power. This literally has nothing to do with cvt!

[@colestock9980]

I’m in talks for a brand new Taos, and for what I do, it’s a perfect little whip. Good economy, deceptively spacious and powerful enough for my needs. AWD is a huge bonus, i do a lot of winter driving, so having AWD paired to winter tires should make it a beast in the snow when I need it to be. I don’t actually mind the DSG, when I tested it, i found it shifted exactly how and when I wanted it to. In “sport” it was a little herky jerky but I can live with that, it would really only go into “sport” if i needed to prioritize power to pass someone. Great little well appointed small crossover that can be extremely practical.

[@mikekarena]

Honestly, the intro was the extent of my off roading. I guess they both work.

[@shanechenery7261]

Great video guys, thanks. There does seem to be a fair bit of angst here in the comments though. Can I suggest that we all agree on a couple of things? 1) Nobody who is really into offroading, and wants a really good 4WD, will buy a Crosstrek / XV! (unless money was an option and they couldn't afford a Wrangler or whatever). Surely it is hard to argue that point. However..... 2) What the Crosstrek does do, and I am sure the VW too, is enable folk who 95% of time cruise around the suburbs or highway, to do some light / mild offroading without getting into too much trouble......which they can't do in a standard hatchback or sedan, mostly due to AWD and ground clearance. 3) If the Subaru was fitted with some A/T tyres, running at 26psi, it would do much better (but still not be a Wrangler or Defender)

[@jjr007]

Tommy is complaining about the power of the Subaru, yet they bought the 2.0, when they could have bought the 2.5 sport model.

[@ryzenforce]

And he doesn`t even know how the VW works too. They are real amateurs and I can`t believe 1M + people trust them.

[@gffriedman]

It’s not that the engine lacks power, it’s that the CVT doesn’t apply it.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

@@ryzenforce how is the VW supposed to work? You get in, throttle modulate, and steer over obstacles… off-roading is simple. Vehicle has to do some work tho.

[@Deeboskim]

Would be curious to see how the Crosstrek Sport would compare, since it has 30 extra horspower and dual x-mode. Seems like it probably would have got up that hill and off those rollers without as much of a struggle in deep snow/mud Xmode as it allows for more wheel spin.

[@4G63Tx]

That’s the one I’m currently eyeing for my next vehicle. Thirty extra horses plus the dual X-modes are great but I still think Subaru should offer a Crosstrek with the WRX’s turbo 4

[@leonzarco8609]

They have a video already on that version

[@mikekarena]

Putting more appropriate tires and comparing would be interesting since most of us would change them (as noted in comments by others).

[@hughwolfe1176]

So basically what you’ve found is AWD is not the best option for off roading situations. Perhaps this is why Jeeps are so popular.

[@lumpskie]

Yes but just as important is how bad the transmissions are... especially without low range. Lack of articulation makes it even worse. Neither of these vehicles should be taken off graded roads.

[@hughwolfe1176]

@@lumpskie exactly, I’ve had better off road drivability with our 2010 MINI Cooper, automatic and really low ground clearance. Pick the best line and take your time.

[@gffriedman]

Bruh. You’ve completely missed the point, and they weren’t subtle about it.

[@slappingham976]

We had a 2010 outback with a cvt and Yokohama at tires on it, would go places most guys wouldn’t want to drive their trucks and we didn’t even worry about it.

[@nhuff73]

I just Bought a 2023 Taos 4motion. Fabulous so far! 40 mpg on the highway.

[@whafrog]

I know it's a stretch, but I really wish you'd bought a manual Crosstrek...because I need to upgrade from my very old Corolla but I just can't give up a stick yet...

[@RKmndo]

Is your Corolla 4WD? My 2016 CVT Crosstrek gets 40MPG+ at 65MPH. I doubt that the manual would lose much. I like the ground clearance, hatch, roofrack, and hitch height. It's a heavy little car.

[@whafrog]

@@RKmndo good for you. What is your point? I like driving a stick, that's all.

[@RKmndo]

@@whafrog You respond like this to every person offering helpful info? 'Reminds me why I stopped doing things like being a Marine or an EMT. I don't have to risk my butt for anybody or their bratty and entitled way of life anymore. Now I just enjoy my wealth in my waterfront home and on my boat. Good luck in life. May you never be drafted to fight the Chinese or similar.

[@whafrog]

@@RKmndo I'm not sure what was "helpful". You sarcastically asked if my Corolla was 4WD, as if that's the only thing that mattered. I know all about what the Crosstrek CVT is capable of, but very few reviewers bother with getting a manual. Understandable, since the market is very small...I was just expressing a wish, not a critique.

[@dillonh321]

@@RKmndo I'm glad someone with such a bad attitude is no longer serving our country and no longer has people's lives in their hands.

[@neoonebugc.flyboy]

This past winter I had to pull out a Subaru outback with a Ford flex all wheel drive for getting stuck in the snow. The CVT was not in his favor and I don't think the tires help either. Ford flex all-wheel drive is a beast in the snow.

[@sneakyracerpr]

Wonder what would be the difference with the 2.5 engine. The 2.0 is very anemic tbh

[@chon4k]

Take one of these Crosstreks in the 2021 sport package out there. Bigger engine with 182-hp matched with proper All-Terrain tires and a digital terrain response system. They're golden for people who want to head out to national parks and trails every few months.

[@Crono454]

Not doing yourself any favors on those all season tires. Why complain about traction when running street tires?

[@Crazyced]

Just stopping by to thank you a lot for this test and more specifically the slip tests! So good! Most don't realise how bad some AWD systems are. This shows exactly how they can perform.

[@jpch8814]

Dude, 11:26 you stopped the Taos midway and went on a tangent, it didn't overheat or anything, it was, in fact, climbing more aggressively than the Crosstrek...sorry but I call bullshit. Our Tiguans are all DSG in Europe and they do fine in a way harder off-road than this.

[@BoanergesJim]

How about testing these vehicles for what their intended use was designed for? Also, the altitude there will rob a lot of power. A forest trail that is at 4000 feet altitude or under might not be a bad idea to also try as well.

[@danielnormandeau2393]

I bought the 2021 Crosstrek Sport I did a small lift by doing the Falken AT trail tires at 215 65 17 it gave about and inch over those crappy Yokohama tires that are stock and definitely was an upgrade in capability.

[@Aeonesius]

Do you get any rubbing with that setup? I think I would have to get 18 inch Tires for my Limited.

[@carrdoug99]

It's really a shame Subaru isn't maximizing the potential of the Crosstrek. I think the 2.5 is the answer for power, but the rally version would need beefed up suspension and a better transmission choice for sure. Up graded tires are a must as well. I recently upgraded my 2017 with 225/60 r17 Toyo Open Country AT3s. Amazing what a difference they've made.

[@Connor-gy7rj]

I’m curious as to why crossovers with CVT/DCT transmission have such a hard time off-road. Even though side by sides, use CVTs (Polaris) or DCTs (Honda). My best guess the better tires and clearance help with the downsides of those transmissions. But if these transmissions don’t work well for off-roading, why don’t the side-by-side manufacturers use regular old automatic transmissions?

[@lanceripplinger8352]

All this did for me was prove why regular automatic transmissions are the way to go.

[@jstrig]

The Taos was not being marketed as an off-roader from what I've seen. I thought it was a replacement for the Golf. Honestly, I really like the Taos aside from the weak engine

[@RichardVac]

No week engine on the Taos it's actually peppy the turbo lags a little but when it kicks in it's good, In regards to off road it did better than the Subaru, harsh but better, it has more climbing power than the Subaru with CVT

[@RichardVac]

But yet, it climbs harsh but better than the Subaru, the CVT will kill the engines power on the Subaru

[@jesuschristmelvin]

I just bought a Taos and if it’s mild terrain with stock tires it will do fine. However I don’t think taking it across the beach or steel trails is going to work out well 😂

[@RichardVac]

@@jesuschristmelvin Yes it does better than other similar vehicles off road but I would not use it every day off road, occasionally going camping or skiing, it offers many other good things, interior space, security on the roads and occasional soft off road adventures

[@alexfrankl7861]

Until they put proper autos back in those things I'll pass .

[@danielfair4675]

Then you'll never own one, CVT's are here to stay and gaining in manufactures popularity.

[@marcovargas6205]

​@@danielfair4675 well... Except for any German brand as they don't know how to make them.

[@ebikeengineer]

That Crosstrek looks really good, just wish they put the WRX's engine into it.

[@DevDog67]

Honestly I wish they would just make a crosstrek sti/xti and kind of advertise it as more offroad capable wrx. Just throw the Wrx transmission and powertrain in it. Everyone wants to the option of a wrx hatch anyways, it should sell very well.

[@jalloor]

VW should have mated the auto trans with the 4 motion instead of the dual clutch.

[@subie2021]

meanwhile a jeep wrangler might break down getting to the trail lol

[@stevehascall4441]

Hilarious! You've obviously never owned a VW.

[@subie2021]

@@stevehascall4441 that's true... But I never said anything bad about vw.. I was talking about the wrangler

[@stevehascall4441]

@@subie2021 I had a GTI and Wrangler. I spent twice as much repairing the Jeep, but owned it 7 times longer. That isn’t why I think VWs are awful though, I arrived at that conclusion along with a room full of people sick of repeatedly waiting for VW to fix their cars. We all vowed never to own a VW again. That kind of group epiphany is not uncommon in a VW waiting room.

[@jcollins1305]

My favorite automotive channel on YT. They test the vehicles to see if they can do what the manufacturer says it can. Simple concept right? But executed perfectly by two very pleasant guys with no bs, and no showy music or editing. Keep up the great work Roman and Tommy!

[@brandonmjohnsonphotography]

I watch other real world tests and they rave on Subaru. I just watched a Crosstrek climb this huge hill that I would never drive up even with 4 wheel drive. I just bought a 2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited. I'll let you know this winter how it does. I had a Toyota Highlander AWD and it did great in the mountains in the snow. I've heard from other Subaru owners say it does great. We will see.

[@modru2004]

seems rather disingenuous to rate a vehicles off road capability when they come wearing street tires.

[@mesomemore97]

I want a Crosstreck to go to the beach in. Will it handle lose sand?

[@atyz1000]

im not sure about stock tires, i have 2021 sport with open country 3s on it and i can say it does actually pretty well. i was up in erie for a trip and we took it to the one beach. the only time it got "stuck" was on a sand hill but i got it out easily. i just recommend driving slow through the sand and its fine! the sand was pretty loose but not super loose. definitely recommend new tires for it.

[@patriley9449]

I really think that this video points out the failings of the original equipment tires more than anything. While neither of these are Jeeps, both would have faired better with true off-road tires. It seems like there was a lot of wheel spinning, but not much actual traction when attempting the hills.

[@ShaynePatton]

Why didn't you guys get a manual CrossTrek? I'd be _SUPER_ interested to see you guys review that. Once you take out the handicap of the CVT, may be quite a bit better.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

Why I still own my 2013 Subaru H6 with a five speed automatic. None of the CVT issues that plague the current units climbing much anything. with the bigger 2.5L engine, the Subaru might be better with the additional horsepower and torque with the base Legacy/Outback engine in the Crosstrek. Also, with more power the offroad setting works much better - why the Wilderness models are now sold for better off roading experiences.

[@Mozuf]

I wonder for the Subaru if better tires would have helped it get up there much easier. It made it without more aggressive tires but barely.

[@mitch7850]

I think the upcoming Maverick is going to put a hurting on these smaller SUV’s.

[@goneoutside1011]

I can’t wait to see it.

[@tylerrichey8002]

The maverick is what the ranger should have been

[@andrewdonohue1853]

i just ordered a crosstrek and i have to wait until march. i ordered a 6 speed manual. since the crosstrek is still available as such, i think a manual comparison to a CVT model would be good

[@DarkStarX]

My only Real concern is what happens when you’re actually traveling with more than one person and a trunk full of stuff maybe even a roof tent?? Do these things go anywhere then?

[@ericdappen5893]

Tested. It works fine.

[@AustinH7]

Taking these things on an off-road trail meant for 4WDs is not a good idea

[@DarkStarX]

@@AustinH7 especially if you want to get home.

[@timdolan1437]

Most noncar people I know dont know the difference between a cvt or automatic. Auto makers know that most customers buy based on what they like, not what works best. I agree that for any offroad vehicle a cvt is bad. You guys have proved that over and over. Thanks for the informational video.

[@5610winston]

VW didn't make my short list due to the challenges some of my friends had with reliability and service. I could have gotten by with an Impreza (manual was available pre-owned the first time I went to the dealership) but ingress/egress were troublesome due to the low clearance and low seating position, couldn't raise the seat because the rearview mirror is in the wrong spot in the drivers' line of sight. I never even put it in gear because of the unsatisfactory driving position. I did test-drive a CVT Crosstrek, found the car very nice overall, but the CVT had to go. felt like driving a ball of rubber bands. The only thing missing was the steel guitar slide sound effect from a Wile E. Coyote misadventure with the stretching guardrail. I ordered a Crosstrek Premium with the stick shift. That phrase _hard to modulate_ at 11:08 sums up my preference for a manual over any automatic I've ever driven. Feather the throttle on an off-camber left turn and the auto kicks down to first and dumps all that torque to the drive wheels and you're turning a doughnut in your '96 Roadmaster, even with Positraction. With the manual (I've been driving manual since I was first able to reach the starter (under the clutch pedal in my Dad's then-ancient Studebaker). I've learned to use the clutch for traction control. 29:25 _Unpredictable_ is never a good thing when you're driving. At test-drive time my Norwegian Elkhound didn't like the Crosstrek, wouldn't even get in the car. Sorry, Baldurdash. You don't get a vote.

[@d3adk964]

Too bad the Taos doesn’t have the Tiguan powertrain. My tiguan does surprisingly well Offroad. The wheel base is just too long for going over rocks and ruts

[@haroldbeauchamp3770]

Exactly. The Aisin transmission is a beast. Very short first gear for maximum torque extremely low rpm. Perfect for steep climbs.

[@allnfun6315]

Could’ve swore I subscribed a couple years ago! No wonder I’ve been missing so much. All good now.

[@dzelpwr]

Love the real world tests as always. Super useful information. The editing on this one was a lot more scattered/all over the place than usual. Wasn't as easy to follow as normal from you guys. Other than that, love the content as always.

[@geraldcagney5926]

I don’t think you guys are giving the Crosstrek any justice I use the 1st gear on the paddle shifter on the cvt take traction control off and use xmode and I keep up with the rest

[@bigglyguy8429]

They love to hate Subaru, because the company won't lend them cars

[@BeyondTheTestDrive]

Interesting that the now defunct, but excellent, Golf Alltrack also had a DSG 6 spd. Don’t ever recall a good test of that one like the Taos here.

[@901backyardsmoke4]

Ok tfl you guys don’t like the cvt transmission right, I believe the Subaru is available with manual transmission so why didn’t y’all buy the manual transmission

[@jeffrentsch4318]

I want more about Bronco Base Sasquatch manual. I know y'all can't make Ford publish price or allow preordering that vehicle configuration

[@2050Wheels]

does the crosstek have a manual option, if so could you see how it performed in the same hills?

[@TFLcar]

The manual would do much better but we bought and tested the CVT automatic because that’s the one most people buy.