BOTMAN EXPLAINED: Why Sven didn’t have surgery after first ACL knee injury…

[@Steph-wq9it]

Thank you Keith for putting this video out there. Someone who makes complete sense & has understanding of the matter. Yesterday’s ranting, toxic & poisonous KZbin video’s from a few Newcastle fans were appalling & an embarrassment. It seems that every week they are looking to point the finger at certain individual players, the manager & now the medical staff. I get it, the season has been a disaster with injuries. I get it! We are all frustrated at how unfortunate we have been this season, but come on 🤷‍♂️the true supporters need to act as such, not bring this club down with poisonous rants & scapegoating certain players. Absolutely appalling at times.

[@paulschlader]

Really great piece Keith. Humanizing Sven in a meaningful way. Thank you for this!

[@tgdkls5891]

Zero blame on Botman, and I can totally understand and agree with trying to avoid surgery. But I can't understand then playing him 100 mins every week when he was obviously struggling, and hurting the chances of non-surgical recovery being successful.

[@j.j.911]

Exactly.

[@chrisrogers3061]

Good balanced piece. Well done and all that matters us that Sven gets fit and well soonest

[@tobysayer4189]

Excellent video. It seems many are saying they rushed him back. I'm not sure they did - they rested and treated him for 3 months after the initial injury right? Also I see people saying the players decision should be over-ruled. Surely no one should be forced to go under the knife. There's no crystal ball that tells you how these injuries will play out. Lets say he had the surgery straight away, he's in the same position albeit 3 months ahead of where he is now. If it were me I'd definitely give avoiding surgery a go.

[@rogerdavies2796]

Spot on.

[@skysportskeith]

Couldn’t have said it better myself Toby.

[@Steph-wq9it]

❤Well said 🎉

[@jasonnewton5996]

Thank you for the balanced presentation Keith.

[@neilglover6980]

Not sure how balanced it is. Seems like quite a strong defence of the club and management deflecting responsibility and accountability.

[@garyvalentine8081]

Thank god for keith making sense of the full situation 👍🏻

[@jonblackburn7634]

Thanks for posting this Keith, very balanced as normal.

[@cookieinthewoods]

Cheers Keith, nice to get a measured, well-rounded piece on Sven and a better understanding of things.

[@Soloiceman]

Well done Keith. As always a voice of reason and common sense. Thanks for doing the video.

[@tonygardiner2672]

Thanks for the work and effort you put in Keith. It's great to get some clarity instead of rumour on social media.

[@TyneBridge90]

Keith it sounds like you've been asked to do this video on behalf of the club in terms of PR

[@rocketiain84]

Yeah why isnt this just fully explained bu the club in statement or interview

[@MogMonster87]

Not to say I want a witch hunt but these reporters have had excuses for Eddie and co all season long

[@TyneBridge90]

​@@rocketiain84because nothing is explained by the club anymore...you couldn't shut them up 12 months agan. Does Darren Eales still even work at the club????? Absolute amateurs and the veil is slipping for me I'm afraid

[@AJamesRichards-ir7yy]

Thanks Keith, very useful to get a fuller explanation of injuries like this and really helps to give perspective. Also makes you realise that these situations are far from being black and white ( no pun intended) although I think that the medical staff do need to be more involved in the decision making process and provide a much stronger diagnosis to give the best advice.

[@skysportskeith]

I think the injury crisis and the player’s desperation to ply clouded this one

[@rogercookcouk]

Excellent context Keith. Thank you 👏

[@MacOSTen]

Thanks Keith, very useful video.

[@nicoladolby2154]

Thanks Keith, much appreciated 👍👍

[@keithbell4744]

Thank goodness a professional journalist gives an informative report based on facts and the hysterical responses from vloggers

[@TyneBridge90]

how do you know it's facts and not the message the club wants putting out ?

[@redl1ght1]

The Vloggers are the true voice of passionate knowledgeable fans.

[@joetanweechye8412]

Good job Keith! Mellow down the hysteria!🙏

[@willfoster2664]

Great report Keith very measured and calm, not like some Toon you tubers OMG totally Ott . Yes I agree some mistakes but I understand the decision. Only one point I do feel the squad over Eddies time have picked up alot of injuries.

[@jasmineblack9778]

no clickbait from Keith just the facts explained clearly

[@unixsystems]

Very well articulated Keith

[@robhall9599]

Good first hand information from the actual player. They could have put a micro camera in via key hole surgery to see exactly what damage was there. I’ve read that torn acl’s do not repair as there is no blood supply to them. I ruptured my acl 20 odd years ago . I couldn’t bend the joint at all. Tony Underwood the Falcons winger played on with no acl in his late career, hence the knee support worn when he played. So everyone is different.

[@hayz1313]

A knee support isn't what held his knee together mate it's just a piece of fabric! Rugby players often are able to play through ACL issues because their hamstring strength is off the charts

[@skysportskeith]

My physio made that exact point about the key hole today actually. Good point

[@robhall9599]

@@hayz1313 certainly helps when you’re missing one of the four that holds your knee together. 🤷‍♂️

[@johnwebber8994]

Great video Keith but I just can't get why we're playing players whilst injured while we have players that could come in but they are not trusted.This needs addressing in my opinion.

[@Jules220965]

Hi Keith I Feel Sorry For Sven he will be gutted and Feel Sorry Fir Eddie and the Club think lot of frustration from Some of our Fan Base we need to take step back loads of bad luck . 5:34 Let’s hope Eddie is still here he deserves to be ,not his fault .Hope we can sell fringe players keep our best and Get several Players we need . In Eddie I Trust Hope PIF Does. Don’t need Elite Manager like certain Fans think.🌑⚽️

[@Robert.Sheard]

A slight tear of the ACL can indeed heal without surgery IF it's rested and treated, not rushed back into action at the first opportunity. The player and/or coaching staff shouldn't be able to overrule medical professionals. This is a massive own goal by the club.

[@skysportskeith]

He rested for 3 months. Wasn’t rushed back

[@Robert.Sheard]

@@skysportskeith I'm not blaming Sven in any way. It's admirable that he wanted to be there for the club. But as someone who has destroyed my own ACL and has suffered for years as a result, this is not an injury you overcome in a couple of months. I just hope it hasn't done him even more irreparable damage. Maybe the club should have questioned such widely varying "expert" opinions.

[@levstone415]

Medical advice was mixed so which do you listen to?

[@neilglover6980]

It was wishful thinking to get him back in 3 months. It's an injury that would normally keep a player out for most of a season if not longer. Yes 3 months in a long time but it's still rushing back (yes in the players view for the right reasons). Now it's 12 months combined even if he gets back to 100% at all. Huge assets need a conservative approach taken to protect them. Should never have been Botman's decision, that's a dereliction of duty from the club to fall back on a young lad eager to play. It's the same argument as to why players cannot be given the choice to play on with concussion after a knock to the head. They are full of adrenaline and testosterone, they want to be brave and play. Mature qualified adults need to take charge. If you get multiple medical opinions and all say something different, you take the conservative belt and braces option, not the one you HOPE comes off

[@stephenandrews1318]

I wouldn’t want to live in a world where employers could force employees to undergo surgery against their wishes. You speak like someone who has seen his medical notes and has the ability to understand them. You don’t.

[@sahrealsound]

Such a shame for the lad. I would add to your freak injury list, Dan Burn and Elliot Anderson’s back injuries

[@JulieDorsetBelle]

Great information - thanks Keith...feel for Sven and the team...😢

[@bensouthwell1339]

About time someone has told us the truth or even told us anything! I just wonder why the club could not have bothered to mention the trouble that was dropped on us. ... well done Keith D.

[@neilglover6980]

Why do so many people seem to think Eddie and/or the wider club management is blameless in this and not ultimately accountable? I can guarantee you I'm 100% a supporter but what I am not is a blind follower of the Eddie Howe fanclub. You all make out as if there's nothing that could have been done here, and that choices were made for the right reasons. Well I disagree. Choices were made because they wanted him back playing, and it's a choice they have made with plenty other players this season resulting in reinjury. It's a pattern. It's wishful thinking vs taking a conservative approach for the longer term benefit of club and players. In this case there were multiple specialist opinions each with a different view. In normal business practice when considering risk mitigation of very valuable assets normally the conservative option is taken. Forgive me for talking about Sven as an asset, but in footballing terms and in the eyes of the Saudi Investment Fund that's what he is. The club collectively should have taken the conservative approach and been stronger to push the surgery. They certainly cannot leave this down to the player to decide for himself. Yes it's admirable that he wants to play and help the team, but when should you ever put such important decisions like this in the hands of a young testosterone filled lad against the apparent willingness of the club to go to surgery? It's the same argument against concussions. Don't leave the decision to the player, take it out of their hands for their own good. I'm not saying that this alone means Eddie Howe should be sacked. However it is the worst example in a long list of similar injury recurrences which suggests a pattern of poor decision making. Couple that with the lack of willingness from the manager to rotate and adapt playing style tactics etc to mitigate fatigue and burn out ultimately resulting in more injuries and a downward spiral of poor performances and result, this is why Howe is and should be under scrutiny and pressure. No amount of "credit in the bank" makes a manager immune to scrutiny and responsibility for systemic failures when there has been no evidence of learning and adaptation. Again, if this were big business (which football is remember) an senior manager, director or asset manager would not keep their job through similar systemic and repeated failures

[@andyhazel82]

Thank you for adding much needed context and facts to Sven's situation. I really feel bad for Sven considering that his heart was in the right place when he made the decision against surgery in order return as fast as possible to help the team. Do you think measures will be taken from management to "protect" players from themselves in these type of decisions? I got the impression from you that the medical staff at the club was open to either option, so they may have opted for Sven to rest and ended up at where we are now anyway. Let's hope for a speedy recovery for Sven.

[@dansnowden9147]

They gambled with his health and have been caught out again. Howe has the final say and has got it wrong multiple times this season

[@daniel4224]

totally agreed. Downie's video seems like on PR piece on behalf of Howe and the club

[@petershrive416]

If Howe not go confident with players on the bench when someone get injured sell them and sign players who are ffs

[@niallpowell5456]

We had an injury crisis granted but not in centre half area

[@Davey3R]

Hopefully we can get Kelly in on a free to cover at LCB until he’s back then move Kelly over to LB or onto bench

[@centurion8446]

As I heard elsewhere, have to remember the timing with the UCL games about to start and he would have wanted surgery to avoid missing UCL and the Euros. When he came back he was definitely missing a yard of pace though

[@markbarrett5942]

Being a freak season but we'll be back nxt season...on a brighter note we got a breakthrough gem in miley howay the lads😊

[@parallaxview6770]

Truth is negligence

[@rocketiain84]

Anyone with one half working eye could see he wasnt movinf right when he first came back so why wasnt this picked up and assesed in training prior to that return ??? Hes literally looked like a stick in the mud, slow, ponderous and off the pace. Surely that should stand out and if Sven himself chose not to have surgery and wasnt right it needed strong management to say sorry were not picking you until your fit, but given weve rushed back murphy, burn and a few more from bad injuries it still looks like poor management and decision making

[@ant2533]

A fact based, well reasoned, fully understandable piece. You'll never make it as a keyboard warrior doctor life long fan for the last two years, Keith. 😂 Has any club ever had such a bad luck season as ours? Howay Eddie, scrape into Europe, regroup and go again next year.

[@matthewwoodward8805]

Thanks Keith for your insight. We're in such a precarious situation with all of injuries. Nothings black and white 😉

[@BigDom61]

Great piece Keith but I know it’s hindsight but I still think it’s a poor decision and seeing 3 specialists and getting 3 different diagnosis means the club should use different specialists

[@Jettplayzgames]

2:38 don’t wanna hear fans talk like that concerning qualifying for Europe; we’re desperate to qualify because we’re trying to grow the brand, unlike elite clubs like Chelsea who can afford to have an off season and miss out on European competition

[@ozzy6162]

Our current squad can't deal with playing in Europe on Tues/Wed and then the EPL on Sat/Sun. Our revenue is the most important thing and the amounts allocated for each finishing position in the premier league show that finishing higher in the EPL would make us far more money than having a run in the Europa Conference League which would probably be at the expense of our league position as evidenced by this season. It wasn't just injuries that hampered us this season, it was the extra games causing fatigue because we didn't have enough quality in the squad to rest the top players. Therefore looking at the bigger picture and the most important aspect, money, it would be best if we concentrated on the league next season to try to finish as high as possible while we hopefully improved the squad over the next 3 transfer windows so we can deal with the extra games & travelling that playing in Europe creates - PSR willing.

[@niallpowell5456]

If you don’t get europe your best players could leave so no logic in not pushing on we can easily deal with Europa conference and it’s another chance of trophy West Ham won it and this team is on a par if not better than them

[@Jettplayzgames]

@@ozzy6162 so are you saying we should deliberately lose games to insure we don’t finish seventh or higher? You can’t win trophies if you don’t participate in the competitions

[@b4dass]

If we get uefa conference league its awful teams at first so you can play the fringe players and keep them game ready. Players like Miley, Hall, Anderson, Tino etc can get more experience and develop too

[@MogMonster87]

@@ozzy6162we played better when we were playing twice a week

[@matthewbryant958]

How can the medical team and eddie not be held responsible for this is bizzare. Eddie running the players into thr ground with injuries, never changing the first 11 not giving players a chance when the first 11 are obv drained. Playing less games wont matter if the medical team is the worst in the country

[@matthewwoodward8805]

Wow the amount of replies from Keith show just how hard this man works at his job. We're lucky to have someone so dedicated reporting on our club. Also...that beard 🖤🤍🖤

[@stevedarragh]

The only plus of this is that it is an injury in defence (unfortunately of the best) of which we seem to have plenty of cover. If this had been Isak or Bruno the shit would have really hit the fan!

[@philipmurray7419]

Cheers for that Keith great of of work but why have we had to wait for you to tell us. Why not someone from the club. Just saying

[@kristianheadland8184]

I suppose the real problem is, knowing that Botman was using rest to heal the injury. Howe must think about slowing the use of the player by using Dummet, Kraft could have helped. The one issue I see is Howe and I believe he will learn his lesson. Howe believes a premium player injured like botman is better than a fully fit Kraft or Dummet or Lascelles. Once you know the players are struggling the benches fitness is more important than their quality.

[@DreamTeamWrestling]

take a shot every time you hear 'sven botman

[@stuartg380]

Keith Chemical Ali Downie. Schilling the company line. Shoulda had the OP ; Eddie shoulda played the squad. Need to learn from this.

[@andygallagher6897]

I think its the combination of injuries that has many fans frustrated, myself included. In isolation Botman (who shouldn't be blamed) is one of those things but when you add Murphy's shoulder popping out twice, as well as Joelinton, Willock, Isak all having recurring injuries or setbacks it does seem something isn't right.

[@tomm9758]

It seems incredibly naive for the medical staff to allow Botman to refuse surgery even if he wanted to, they should be the authority on the matter. Regardless if the team/players wanted him back, they’d have to accept, like they have now, that he’s injured and can’t play. Very poor all round in my opinion and could’ve been avoided.

[@skysportskeith]

The thing is tho, he could play. And proved if for 3 months. Just not at the same level, in hindsight

[@eddouglas]

I don't know why the club is desperate for getting players back from injury though - we can take our time and build a squad - it was always going to take at least 5 transfer windows with FFP. We're travelling at Howe's desperate Prem Manager "scared of the chop" pace - which is fair enough - but it's mad the injuries we had this season AND the ones Howe had at Bournemouth. Botman was obviously coerced into coming back early for me like, it's part of the club mentality under Howe, and even if it wasn't that Howe playing everyone and never making subs for me leads to players getting injured over nothing. The human body obviously can't take that much of a strain over and over day after day and it ends up making weird parts of the body weaker - like tearing a pectoral or dislocating a shoulder. It's surely because the body is generally over worked and it's sucking reserve vitamins and minerals from weird parts of the body to feed the legs and the cardio system. I don't think just having 1 or 2 rest days gets people back to 100% - that's why workers have the weekend off AND x amount of holidays per year. Otherwise you get drained in general - and that's not even top level athletes. I can see why people are quick t defend Howe but I'm not buying the "weird injuries/bad luck" defence - he did this at Bournemouth, never seems to make subs and plays the same 11 Satdi, Wednesday Satdi wherever possible,. He can't grow if he doesn't get called out for mistakes imo.

[@davidknight2104]

Ngl I think Paul Dummet could have done the same job as a 70% Sven

[@gregwalsh2045]

Paul Dummett contract extension inbound

[@RavishingRickRude9]

Hi Keith. Howe out

[@simonskeen3893]

Well said Keith that should quietly keep some supporters quiet instead of shouting for everybody's head

[@leeclark8534]

I have done my ACL so God nars how he has played on like

[@smanvir94]

Ah man ive just thought Botman didnt play any ucl games either this is fuckin mad

[@alexdewar6855]

It shouldn't be up to Sven, it's more important than that. Players need to be looked after no matter what.

[@bensouthwell1339]

I agree some players would play with a broken leg if they could and most not blessed with brains neither.

[@skysportskeith]

I get your point, but there was mixed diagnoses from specialists, Sven admitted that himself

[@Sniffer-NUFC]

Any idea why Jose was sat at the boxing with our chairman.

[@jamespalmer3716]

ok but is this not EH overall decision if he knows hes injured. to "protect the lads" his own words. if he knows these players are injured and knows and sees there not able to play to there best why keep playing them like i said its his job and in his own words to protect the players in anyway possible. which also means not letting them play injured and risk destroying there whole careers.

[@shauntaylor6040]

He has possibly put his career back because he might not come back the same player, he might lose a yard of pace permanently.

[@skysportskeith]

He might. But he might also come back stronger, and I think he will given how successful ACL surgery is these days

[@LordSeth-hf8ew]

seems like the bias not obvious to fans of newcastle

[@MarkWeir-cr5tk]

I felt sorry for Botman, playing at a poor level because of injury when he came back, played a number of games when we could have used Lascelles. Management of injuries has been disgraceful, Murphy another example.

[@senshibat8920]

A Loss to club and his country

[@tracyjohnstone3313]

Thank u for helping us understand sven’s injury Keith 🖤🤍🖤🤍

[@billrailton712]

I am sorry Keith but thats a load of whitewash! Doesn’t matter which way you cut it, its rank bad mismanagement! A new injury who is everyone trying to kid! Same old same old treating fans like we are idiots!

[@NUFC2412]

It seems that this squad has been ran into the ground.

[@ozzy6162]

I don't believe that the number of injuries are just down to bad luck. The situation is complicated but the quality of the consultants giving advice and the amount of time given to rehab has to be questioned as Sven isn't the only player to have been re-injured in some way once they've returned - Joelinton, Murphy & Willock have also. Now Barnes has another injury and Longstaff has been playing injured as well. Is there anyone in the squad who is fit to play?

[@newcastlefanstv]

Keith the ones that are blaming Eddie has our head scratched. Makes you wonder if these are actual supporters.

[@neilglover6980]

@newcastlefanstv Why do you think Eddie is blameless in this and not ultimately accountable? I can guarantee you I'm 100% a supporter but what I am not is a blind follower of the Eddie Howe fanclub. You all make out as if there's nothing that could have been done here, and that choices were made for the right reasons. Well I disagree. Choices were made because they wanted him back playing, and it's a choice they have made with plenty other players this season resulting in reinjury. It's a pattern. It's wishful thinking vs taking a conservative approach for the longer term benefit of club and players. In this case there were multiple specialist opinions each with a different view. In normal business practice when considering risk mitigation of very valuable assets normally the conservative option is taken. Forgive me for talking about Sven as an asset, but in footballing terms and in the eyes of the Saudi Investment Fund that's what he is. The club collectively should have taken the conservative approach and been stronger to push the surgery. They certainly cannot leave this down to the player to decide for himself. Yes it's admirable that he wants to play and help the team, but when should you ever put such important decisions like this in the hands of a young testosterone filled lad against the apparent willingness of the club to go to surgery? It's the same argument against concussions. Don't leave the decision to the player, take it out of their hands for their own good. I'm not saying that this alone means Eddie Howe should be sacked. However it is the worst example in a long list of similar injury recurrences which suggests a pattern of poor decision making. Couple that with the lack of willingness from the manager to rotate and adapt playing style tactics etc to mitigate fatigue and burn out ultimately resulting in more injuries and a downward spiral of poor performances and result, this is why Howe is and should be under scrutiny and pressure. No amount of "credit in the bank" makes a manager immune to scrutiny and responsibility for systemic failures when there has been no evidence of learning and adaptation. Again, if this were big business (which football is remember) an senior manager, director or asset manager would not keep their job through similar systemic and repeated failures

[@goatfather5711]

Keith, medical negligence is a very serious matter. What about Joe Willock, Jacob Murphy, Joelinton, isak, it's all reoccurrence of the same injury.

[@skysportskeith]

I’m sure it will be getting looked into. But you’re right, the optics of it isn’t great. However, i do think there’s been bad luck with Pope, Murphy, Barnes, and Wilson of course has a long standing issue

[@redl1ght1]

Not concerned at Howes part in this worrying saga ,as I know he will be surplus to requirements at the end of the season.

[@jeffreyfitzgerald4673]

Promo-SM

[@neilglover6980]

Yes there's been some freak injuries but there has been a pattern of reinjury after these injuries which I can't write off as bad luck. It's a policy issue that needs sorted out for long term player wellbeing and overall injury mitigation. I totally understand the want to get players back, but how many times do you make the same mistakes before you learn. I'd also submit that the number of injuries has to have something to do with this "intensity is our identity" philosophy. I get it and when it's working well it's great. BUT when the players bodies clearly can't stand up to that intensity all the time appropriate adjustments, system and tactical changes have to be made. Players have to be rested and rotated, even if it's youth players, for the overall long term good. This is where for me the management and coaching staff need to take responsibility. Yes they should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, but they have to show they are learning and for me that learning has been too slow. This isn't Sunday league football. Howe and his collective team are responsible for hundreds of millions of pounds of player assets (yes they are human as well, but please remember we are owned by an Investment Fund who values it's assets and wants returns from them). For me Howe and the whole team have demonstrated this season that they're not qualified to manage those assets in the environment they are needed for, i.e top level premier league and European football combined. In my view Eddie Howe has 10 games to save his job. He needs to demonstrate he is learning and is adaptable. He doesn't need to qualify for Europe but he does have to show some evidence that he's able to set the team up for long term success starting now

[@jayaychare7318]

another awful medical decision. the medical team needs a clear-out or howe is ignoring their medical advice

[@skysportskeith]

In hindsight it was, but they weren’t to know that at the time

[@jayaychare7318]

@@skysportskeithhindsight is a wonderful thing. It just seems constant never ending bad news for the team with injuries .

[@michaelgreen1577]

Intensity is our identity is coming back to bite us on the arse shite season should have bought better last summer nee good buying players for the future we were in the champions league

[@anderswillestofte9376]

agred we is a last 5 year from buy for the futur, we ned buy for the now, players who is ready from day toi strenght start lineup and the squar deep, we mess up big in summers behave like we has ben a top 6 clubs for years, and i realy dont think ther learn any thing and will doit agin whis summer, if we has any money to buy for, becuse juse alot last 3 season so fear we maby has broke rules, and will hear around Feb next year.

[@Subbby]

No signings at Xmas and the 2 big summer ones, Barns 38million , tonali 55million barely kicked a ball between them

[@skysportskeith]

Fully agree with your point on recruitment last summer

[@samcraik6705]

The club got it wrong again. That's the story here.

[@michaeljp9605]

Clearly the club acting quick to deflect attention away from the medical staff, still you don’t learn without making mistakes, however if you can’t own your mistakes then you don’t learn either

[@Browns2012ful]

It shouldn’t matter what the player wants to do. His opinion shouldn’t come into it. He should’ve been told he was out and that’s it. Also Keith….whats all this “out with” phrasing?

[@skysportskeith]

I’d disagree. It’s his body. You’ve lost me on “out with”?

[@juliogeordio7358]

Howe out

[@natanbergman1847]

What a terrible analysis! You can't compare a professional sportsman to anyone else, unless you're talking brain surgery!

[@listey]

What's your analysis then champ?

[@Unclebuzzcocksne]

My worry is this is one case in a long line of potential medical issues. It looks like we’ve been careless throughout the season, and no doubt the club will review this