Bottom Bracket installation for best performance and durability

[@radekhahag4472]

This channel is a treasure.

[@Mapdec]

Thank you. Spread the word.

[@clp91009]

It’s a sad state of affairs when manufacturers who charge thousands for carbon frames can’t make a round hole with a 41mm diameter.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Well - most “OEM’s” aren’t actually making their own frames. It’s been outsourced and my guess is that the QC aspect might be “assumed”.

[@clp91009]

@@petersouthernboy6327 Doesn’t matter. When your brand name is on the product you are responsible for the quality of that product even when you subcontract any part of the manufacturing process.

[@radekhahag4472]

@@petersouthernboy6327 Yeah but you should check it. Not sell it..

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@clp91009 Oh, I agree with your “sad state of affairs” comment 110%. There are *far too many bike brands* because the access to frame molding in Asia is easy and not terribly expensive. And enthusiasts tend to be piss poor manufacturers but perhaps that’s a different discussion

[@fukairen9601]

That's what we called "bad money drives out good", for example Giant produced almost perfect frames before 2021, but recent years their QC is basically SH*T.

[@Miraflores1990]

Just the best technically explained bottom bracket video I have ever seen

[@khosrove2222]

thank you... with so many brands and different standars, sometimes working at the workshop is kind of guerrilla warfare... thank you for clarifying this concepts...

[@dennieriechelman319]

Hey Paul. Your channel is gold. The technical details are next level. Thank you for spreading your knowledge!

[@Mapdec]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@JohnWilliams-s9n]

Fantastic Paul - chapeau! What’s not to like with all those lovely tools - proper engineering!

[@stormeporm]

Wow that was a ton of useful information, thanks a lot!

[@stuartbennett4476]

Great explanation, thanks Paul. My experience over the last 15-20 years has been that I will only buy a frame now that has a bsa BB. Old school screw thread is simply the best ✌️

[@Mapdec]

Be open to T47

[@petersouthernboy6327]

I would prefer T-47 for DUB and 30mm spindles. BB386EVO is great but it never got enough widespread traction.

[@c4p3fi3rr]

Sadly that alone would not guarantee that the openings are aligned, concentric, round, and properly faced. Especially if it's a metal shell bonded to a carbon frame. Probably a metal frame is more likely to have a good threaded BB if it has been machined in a single pass. For CF frames i think that pressfit works better.

[@fukairen9601]

@@c4p3fi3rr Some frame got one piece metal thread part, so it will naturally aligned.

[@kevinfrost1579]

Masterclass thanks Paul helps bring all their preceding practical demos together. Always a nugget of knowledge without fail. As a sidebar worth mentioning such compounds occasionally useful on metal bike head tubes where necessary provided used within the gap tolerances of the individual compound. Previous vid of yours gave inspiration and got me out of trouble. Cheers 😃👍👍👍

[@Oilyhands749]

Ace vid, real world, loads of perfect how to use our tools on here but not many are brave enough to put up the not so perfect ones, I look forward to seeing the not straight forward ones Thanks for making these , I’d imagine they are very time consuming.

[@sebbo9696]

going for perfection every time. love it

[@evanelken4964]

Very happy to have seen a previous video of yours that went over the Shimano BB86 letting me know to use nothing when fitting the bb. I put it into my new frame (Winspace SLC 2.0) and it’s working great!

[@pierrex3226]

Various KZbinrs, as well as Cannondale Australia, recommend that Japanese silicone grease thing. The European equivalent is liqui moli 3312, it's German. My BB86 aluminium BB started creaking last week. I slathered that stuff everywhere. No more creaks, after 2 rides, 1 in z2, 1 w vo2max intervals, uphill and flat. I ordered a new BB but might wait to see how long this survives without creaking again. The BB is 5200km old, including mountains and rain, but mostly dry and flat.

[@lovemore4229]

Best bike maintenance channel by far. Cheers 🍻

[@Mapdec]

Wow, thanks! 🙏

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Excellent, well explained video 👏 *The only valid lubricant is 99% isopropyl alcohol on dry fit applications, if you really have to. Don't listen to me I'm not that type of engineer

[@Mapdec]

Oh. Nice idea.

[@comtruise9779]

What a great and informative video. For years now, for my own personal sanity I've just been using token ninja thread together bottom brackets with Loctite retaining compound and primer on my bikes. I don't know how else to do it reliably with just a few tools, even if it's not optimal.

[@sccxvelo]

This advice will good for when working on my BB30 cannondale cx9 frame that I use for singlespeed CX now.

[@mountaindweller4514]

Great video. I think Henkel has some issues with distribution, I tried looking for some Loctite SF 7649 and Loctite 641 recently and could only find very expensive 50ml bottles, 10ml was only on ebay. Currently as a home mechanic you almost have to resort to the Park Tool rebranded versions if you need primer and retaining compound, which is crazy.

[@rivnuts7398]

Excellent description😊

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Thanks very much Paul...

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

Thanks Paul!

[@Mapdec]

🙏

[@saj78769]

explained very well, thank you

[@dmlopezleon]

Enhorabuena, sus videos son de gran interés y muy instructivos.

[@n22pdf]

Another great timely vid dude awesome content 😊 Pete 🚴🏻😊👍

[@Mapdec]

Thanks 👍

[@steve6942]

Interesting I just replaced a gusset BB (press fit) for a sram Eagle crank on a trek remedy and there wasn't any advice in the BB pack😢, fortunately Trek uk advised loctite primer SF770 and loctite 641 retaining compound Incidentally this is advised for press fit carbon and aluminium shells The last carbon remedy was the shimano BB 😮🤔 who'd a thunk it. Quality video again 👌 👏 btw Cheers 🍻 Ste

[@andrewblakesley4202]

Fantastic video and if I had this type of bike I'd go to Mapdec. I'll stick with threaded BSA.

[@d8461]

Ive just had a new BB fitted thats press fit and its creaking again in less than 10miles! It looks like grease has been used during assembly.

[@denis_roy_7]

Merci!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you

[@davetomlinson8090]

Hi, Great channel. I watched a video of yours and you mentioned an aliexpress bb removal/installation press, I was looking at a Wheels Manufacturing one, bit quite costly for the home mechanic, which one do you recommend please, and does it have a suitable drift to install a sram 28.99mm dub bb. Cheers, Dave

[@jerseybarrier64]

If I am reading this right, if a frame manufacturer shoots to make a BB86 to work with shimano or sram they should have it sized at 41 mm going no lower than 40.95 or higher than 41.07. However Campy is asking for even smaller hole, 40.97 or as small as 40.94 mm. That doesn’t seem to be fair to a frame mfg finding a nominal that works with 3 different ranges? What may be great for one could in fact be too large for another? Why aren’t all BB’s held to same range of tolerance? This could be so much better for all involved.

[@Mapdec]

Yep. Sometime. Your frame could be right the intended BB, but not right for your sexy ceramic speed upgrade.

[@kevinfrost1579]

@jerseybarrier64 “…..Why aren’t all BB’s held to the same range tolerance ?” That’s the 64 K $ question and something that’s on bike mechanics’ Christmas lists every year 😂 (…….to no avail 😭)

[@kubabud]

Fantastic video which is very helpful with my current predicament, a creaking bb... Question: can you advise how you clean a carbon bb shell after removing cups which had retaining compound used? I have tried using a medium strength 641 loctite which hasn't worked (still creaking), so now planning to try stronger 609. Not sure how crazy I need to go with cleaning the previous loctite residue before re-installing.

[@Mapdec]

You need the surfaces meticulously clean or the compound will not cure. Scrape off the old stuff with a scalpel. Clean with brake cleaner until cloth remains white.

[@kubabud]

@@Mapdec Thank you guys 🙏 I wish I lived closer and could have my bike serviced by You 😀

[@mrjono999]

Thanks

[@Mapdec]

Thank you. This is so kind 🙏

[@mrjono999]

@@Mapdec really appreciate the call the other day!

[@c4p3fi3rr]

I build all my bikes myself, it's my hobby. But still cannot justify spending more than 1000 EUR on tools to ensure the bottom bracket/brake mounts are flush and aligned properly. This should be the manufacturers' job. Nowadays even an aluminium frameset costs north of 1500 EUR and for that much I would be expecting that at least all the interfaces with other components are built to spec. Apparently this is too much to ask. I also don't see many bike shops employing underpaid students bothering with checking that the frame is built to spec. They probably just want it out of the door ASAP. Hell, a few days ago i was working on a friend's BMC, and as soon as i pulled out the crank, the BB cup came along... These guys have no shame... From the manufacturing, to the QA, to whoever assembled the bike, nobody bothered addressing something this serious. These are the consequences of not having industry standards, nor accountability.

[@Mapdec]

It’s long been the role of a dealer to sort final QC. Very few take this seriously these days.

[@tekjim]

I agree this should be the frame manufacturers job as part of QC

[@fukairen9601]

That's why team ag2r got much better result this year haha.

[@kevinfrost1579]

Change of material to CF has thrown up some basic manufacturing issues ……..none insurmountable if the will is there ……but that’s frequently lacking at the manufacturing end so it’s easy for brands to push it onto the final delivery point….. either the customer or more often the LBS. Far simpler in previous times, check frame alignment, chase the threads and invariably happy days. Agree 💯 absence of better quality supported by meaningful QC is simply shameful today. Plenty of potential business for any manufacturer prepared to deliver value and proper quality. Also any decent workshop will adhere to professional standards, share knowledge and work in conjunction with customers. Also provide a written record of the work undertaken and return key parts. The issue is finding a good one especially if you have little or no mechanical knowledge………….and that’s where this Chanel helps out 👍

[@stephenwilliams926]

If you use loctite 638 you will have a right game taking it apart again. I know I've been using at work for 40odd years.

[@Mapdec]

Depends on the size of the gap.

[@treyquattro]

are Hambini BB instructions hand-written in red pen by a 5 year-old?

[@Mapdec]

Some say

[@MokaBoucha]

Too funny!

[@Andy-co6pn]

Depends if the pen is working

[@dennismicallef9350]

I email Scott Sports 5 years ago asking what they recommend for a Shimano pf bb86 in my carbon Foil. They recommended a light smear of "bike specific grease" just to help keep it water tight. I popped that one out this year after 5 years, and it popped out very easily while being nice and secure the whole time. I did the same light smear on the new one going in and it fit just perfectly once again. Going in dry might be ok, but I feel like removing it several years later could be more difficult.

[@Mapdec]

I doubt there was any grease present by then. This will all depend in the bore, its sealing and the type of grease you used.

[@liammaguire5625]

Paul what bb would you recommend for my look 765 optimum. The token bb left bearing is making a knocking noise when peddling.

[@Mapdec]

Token make good stuff. Banging doesn’t sound good, sounds like something has been fitted poorly.

[@jorgealvarez3369]

Eso explica lo que aue ningún mecánico pudo mi Madone 2018 bb96 todos los pedaliers se oxidan con facilidad y crujen

[@DanRoch]

Decision tree summary?

[@serzhick23]

Just buy bikes with a threaded BB.

[@MisterCOM]

A pure gues is that the shimano bbs are made from something like POM

[@BMD8]

have you used the Park Tools primer and retaining compound?

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. I don’t like that they don’t advertise the full data sheet, what cure time and gap fill is. I asked Truman on a podcast once and they were pretty unclear.

[@BMD8]

@@Mapdec disappointing. I bought some to use on my last build but ran into the same sort of vagueness so went with the lbs recommendation. Unsure if it was any good but the campy cups haven't given me grief yet

[@sabamacx]

Cannondale keeping their creakingdale reputation in good check.

[@richinoya_]

Great content as always. Unrelated to this video, but do you know when the Time Scylon refresh is happening?

[@Mapdec]

Yes. 👍

[@richinoya_]

@@Mapdec I don’t suppose you’re at liberty to say? 😀 they told me May 2024 some time ago but I have been eagerly awaiting since then

[@Mapdec]

@@richinoya_ 🤐

[@iffy_too4289]

If you're really stuck you know you can just use spray foam... Video it and send to Just Rolled In.

[@kon1402]

02:23 What about BB86 on aluminium frames?

[@Mapdec]

What specifically about it?

[@kon1402]

@Mapdec Sorry for not being specific. I meant to ask if dry installation applies to aluminium frames too?

[@Mapdec]

@@kon1402 with a plastic bearing housing?

[@kon1402]

@@Mapdec Yes. It's BB71-41 with cups made from fibre reinforced polymer material.

[@Mapdec]

@@kon1402 yep. If the frame bore is correct press it in dry.

[@DanTuber]

When you're cutting an oval sized BB, how do you set the cutting tool so it's aligned correctly to the frame? And what happens if both sides of the BB are oval shaped but misaligned?

[@Mapdec]

We made vids on this. The wonky Wiellir. Get one side sorted, hand sand the other to get best alignment possible. Gap fill the space. Or fit a one piece BB if really bad.

[@jonathanbishop78]

Best Cannondale bracket? For a synapse carbon frame from 2019 running the new 105 mechanical 12 speed. 😊

[@Mapdec]

Is it BB30a or PF30a ?

[@jonathanbishop78]

Bb30a thanks

[@Mapdec]

@@jonathanbishop78 just a 6806 bearing in your price range. Pick a stainless one with lip seals unless you want micro watts friction saving.

[@evanjohn503]

I have 2021 Giant TCR manual Ultegra press fit but its started squeeking in the last few months. I've been told it needs copper greaseing - is this correct if its going to eat the plastic? cheers

[@Mapdec]

Show that bike shop this video. Copper slip is a corrosion prevention grease. Plastic and carbon fibre don’t corrode or react with each other.

[@RobPollen]

i think Shimano is a ABS plastic ?

[@bromasi]

Did you go to the bike show?

[@Mapdec]

I went to Bespoked. Not Eurobike.

[@DDai-qd8uk]

You mentioned concentricity. How are you measuring concentricity?

[@Mapdec]

With our own tool. Or a set of parallels.

[@DDai-qd8uk]

@@Mapdec looking forward to seeing a video where you have a concentricity issue and how you go about measuring and remedy.

[@Mapdec]

@@DDai-qd8uk we did a few already. Look for the video called Wonky Wieller.

[@DDai-qd8uk]

@@Mapdec i hoep tahts' nto akchulleh teh tittle 😂

[@funfriends609]

I have done about 10000K on my bike (BB86 - with Ultegra Di2 12spd) and I have not had any creaks or anything and whenever I take the chain off (each time I re-wax), I check the rotation of the cranks is still smooth. All is good. I don't pressure wash, only by hand. Do I still need to have my BB removed and serviced. I do all my other things myself, but don't have tools for that. Just worried I might make a problem where there isn't one if I send it for a full service and they remove the BB and then it is not right.

[@Mapdec]

Sounds like you have a perfect frame with a perfectly aligned and fitted BB. Keep it in there and keep it clean. Well done! 👍

[@funfriends609]

@@Mapdec thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

[@bamicus9342]

I have a new Time ADH frame, they say use Loctite 648 for install. Wheels Manufacturing BB says never use any type of compound, only grease. Doing my own install, any thoughts?

[@Mapdec]

Who says that? The only correct answer is to measure and use the correct method for the gap and the materials.

[@bamicus9342]

@ Time says to use Loctite 648. Wheels Man. says never use retaining compound, use grease. I have this BB in my Giant TCR and they are a screw in type, no problems with them. Time recommended this BB, along with a Token press fit.

[@Mapdec]

@ I have never seen a Time manual suggest that.

[@bamicus9342]

@@MapdecThese instructions came with the manual as an addendum. I could email it to you.

[@Mapdec]

@ I would actually love to see that. I have never come across it. I will ask our rep about it.

[@Leviathandk]

Im almost ashamed to ask. But lets say "my friend" has installed a shimano BB in a carbon frame, and used retaining compound. What to do when the customer comes back for a new BB?

[@Mapdec]

Depends how tight it was. If it was already really tight. We remove it with the utmost of caution using heat and a puller. Don’t just whack it with a hammer.

[@lazyac_]

on BB30 carbon which product to use for hanbini bb? Loctite is safe?

[@Mapdec]

Do you mean retaining compound? Follow the instructions on his site.

[@vlodek-193]

Press fit is a technology from the 1970s and 1980s. Maybe we'll go back to wedge-mounted cranks!?!?😁

[@lovemesomedetail]

11:08 Guys, always remember to keep working that hole until you're happy!

[@Local.hero.1983]

What about the underworld bike industry secret, gets nicknamed 'secret sauce', it's often white, technically a car industry product, cures press-fit bb creaks everytime without fail , and bb will remove no problem next time.

[@Mapdec]

Sounds sus.

[@Frostbiker]

Loctite 660? I'm lost

[@pierrex3226]

Afaik, liqui moli 3312. Worked wonders on my BB. It's used on sunroofs of cars, in particular. Silicone grease essentially. White tube. Whitish grease.

[@markstone722]

Unfortunately its becoming more and more relevant to the issues with BB today. Mapdec explains in term's we can all understand.

[@321bytor]

Move that apostrophe from 'term's' to 'its'

[@neilashton9459]

“The frame is the correct size” well that’s the whole problem for press fit isn’t it?

[@pibil8052]

too bad you are so far away. I called few local shops and they dont have tool for 'fixing" pressfit frames.

[@Mapdec]

I know. It’s so shameful on the industry.

[@tommays56]

All of the loctite compounds take heat to release and using them is risky In my job of repairing pharmaceutical mixers we use Red to retain large bearings in aluminum or other metal housings and yo will cause all kinds of problems trying to remove one cold as housing materials will also be removed

[@Rick-e2f3p]

This is not thread retainer compound...

[@outdoorvertical]

20 years ago this problem didn't exist with bbs.

[@Mapdec]

20 years ago bikes had other problems.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

20 years ago, they were bonding carbon to aluminum and it was a very sketchy process at that time.

[@martinbichler7089]

Not entirely sure I agree, there was no such thing as pressfit and threads was the way to go...but not all frames were perfect at that time and rework was commonly needed

[@Mapdec]

@@petersouthernboy6327 yes. Very true !

[@richiejames928]

Insane amount of grief for little to no benefit. threaded BB are perfect.

[@gm9559]

Let's be honest press fit is crap. I will not buy an expensive frame and tolerate a lousy BB. No threads no buy. Period over and out. Imagine buying a frame for 4000 and hoping your BB will be properly machined. All my frames have threaded BB and i sleep and ride with a smile. Come on folks send a message and stop buying and tolerating lousy products. Send a message to manufacturers.

[@Mapdec]

Oh. You haven’t seen the latest vids with the specalized threads?

[@BrianRPaterson]

Spot on. "Innovative" BB designs terrify me. And for good reason. I have a alloy Cannodale bike with BB30A. After just six months, the bearing are clicking like crazy. Fortunately my local bike shop has just replaced them under warranty. I'll see how long they last. If they start clicking again after a few months, I'll have to buy some high quality bearing in bulk, get a bearing press, and get comfortable pulling and replacing them. I'd consider installing a Hambini unit and running a Shimano chain set, but I'd hate to lose the love Hollowgram cranks. Cheers