Bramblestar is Worse

Is this video an hour long? Yes. I'm sorry.
BGA's video on a similar topic: • Squirrelflight should ...
Abuse information (likely discussing potentially inappropriate topics, be careful):
www.talkspace.com/blog/cycle-...
www.thehotline.org/identify-a...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_o...
ncadv.org/why-do-victims-stay

[@koolkeldeo1056]

Timestamps: Section One | Introduction 0:01 Section Two | In "The New Prophecy" 4:50 Section Three | In "Leafpool's Wish" 14:31 Section Four | In "Power of Three" 16:38 Section Five | In "Omen of the Stars" 18:14 Section Six | In "Bramblestar's Storm" 24:18 Section Seven | In "A Vision of Shadows" 31:49 Section Eight | In "Squirrelflight's Hope" 32:34 Section Nine | Conclusion 1:00:38

[@xxratsrcutexx3494]

Thank

[@rp-ov6br]

Thank

[@yourpersonaljuicebox977]

Thank

[@SunFeathers]

Thx so much you deserve the pin

[@tamsinwalsh8796]

Ocelot 26:13 and 1:04:17

[@ReficulQwertz]

Bramblestar is the worse: the documentary

[@cinnamon4180]

xD

[@Freezinglion]

Lol

[@cocothebean378]

Completely true 🤣

[@mirrorducky6736]

Pfft-

[@flippylekitty]

So true tho

[@Helicidae]

Bramblestar would probably find "I hate my wife" boomer comics funny

[@Schnort]

@abiiurry ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ I feel like this audio sample applies _very_ well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnnGZqxvaMxrY5I

[@robynsadlyisnttaken4692]

@@Schnort why hello fellow mcyt fan if you aren't one then uh 😃 this is awkward

[@BowHooHoo]

@@robynsadlyisnttaken4692 did I hear someone say...mcyt? 👀👀👀👀

[@robynsadlyisnttaken4692]

@@BowHooHoo maybe 👀👀

[@tabbycat21]

@@robynsadlyisnttaken4692 HELLO FELLOW S I M P

[@natalieeuley1734]

Squirrelflight is the poster child for domestic abuse. As a kit and apprentice, she was energetic, adventurous, bold, enthusiastic, and independent. By the end of Squirrelflight's Hope, she is none of those things. It's like Bramblestar sucked the life out of her

[@amberhawksong]

Well said

[@eve7638]

Sad...

[@turtlespeedrunner]

Poor Squirrelflight :(

[@Lilybelle-vr3ho]

Why did Erin Hunter Team have to ruin all potential Bramblestar had? They made it sound like he would be a good cat and then he wasn't! I don't like it! >n

[@leona067]

@@Lilybelle-vr3ho One of the authors even mentioned how Bramblestar was one of their favorite characters

[@acinomthecat]

When Bramblestar compares Squirrelflight to a kit or apprentice, this reminded me of an abuse tactic where the abuser treats their victim as a child so they can only depend on them and their judgement.

[@alexanderthorne5366]

Infantilizing

[@Wren_BurnsHam]

@@nicki8813*wat*

[@stellabonet-downie1002]

This is a warning sign that Squirrelflight is in a bad relationship

[@piffny6666]

Were have I heard that before🤔🤔

[@TipOfTheSauce]

was waiting for that one

[@Eyrinthefae04]

I was looking for this comment

[@axelf9947]

_Like father like son_

[@ohoh8454]

@@axelf9947 Damn I was about to say that

[@virginasol3031]

*I’s so weird seeing Ashfur without blond hair*

[@sillygoose7076]

WHERE ARE HIS LUCIOUS LOCKS-

[@eater_of_grass_beater_of_ass]

It's a stunt double

[@dawnflame9642]

He’s a bald boi

[@kaleaandsunny7819]

We now see blonde haired Ashfur as canon XD

[@-zawolf-8325]

@@kaleaandsunny7819 yeah XD

[@amyd4227]

Why did they make ashfur kittypet xenophobic,,,, when cloudtail,,,, a literal kittypet,,,,,, was raised along side him as his littermate????? That makes literally no sense wtf

[@seineevee]

Honestly the Erins just wanted to make their golden child Bramblebitch look like a savior in comparison to Ashfur

[@bbp975]

@@seineevee BRAMBLEBITCH LMAO, YES

[@Weirdanimalboy]

@@seineevee The Erins: **write Ashfur to not like kittypets to show he is not a good guy** **write Brambleclaw as the hero even though he went to karate class in hell with Cat Hitler as his Sensei**

[@nyxianee]

@@Weirdanimalboy OH MY GOD CAT HITLER AHAHAHA

[@dopeanddiamondsqueen]

@@seineevee FACTS!!!!!!

[@styx7503]

The way people place blame on Squirrelflight because she stands her ground and doesn't back down when she knows what she's doing is right reminds me of the concept of the "perfect victim". The idea that, to be a "real" victim of abuse, you have to be completely perfect and innocent and never fight back. Otherwise, any bad behavior you show (no matter how justified) will be treated as justification for your abuse. This is how the fandom treats Squirrelflight. She's clearly in an abusive relationship, and both the cycle of abuse and her thought processes clearly show that. But because she argues with Bramblestar when he's being unfair instead of silently submitting, she's not the "perfect victim". Because she doesn't fit into the innocent and submissive box people have for abuse victims, they decide she doesn't count for being "bossy" (i.e. standing up to abuse), or "entitled" (i.e. having wants), or any other argument meant to paint her as "just as bad". Which is exactly what Bramblestar does! Even when she ALMOST DIED, he shifts the blame and says that they're BOTH at fault. What the "perfect victim" concept does, at the end of the day, is reinforce the manipulation abuse victims have to go through at the hands of their abuser. I like how you phrased it at the end: Even if Squirrelflight was bossy, or entitled, or whatever, that doesn't suddenly strip her of her experiences as an abuse victim. And for anyone reading this who can relate to this video, the same is true for you. You and your experiences are still just as legitimate and deserving of support, even if you weren't the "perfect victim".

[@TheMorde45]

I've always hated how many people think that abuse victims have to be sad and weak and submissive, it feels like everytime me or my friends talk about the shit we go through people don't take us seriously because we're loud and angry instead of quiet.

[@styx7503]

@@TheMorde45 I feel the same way. Loud and angry victims are just as valid as sad and submissive ones. You have a right to be angry about what happened to you, and it doesn't make you any less of a victim.

[@moonseaeeveelutionsdance8863]

@Moon did- did you watch the video at all?

[@moonseaeeveelutionsdance8863]

@Moon yeah but that's.. one thing. What about the entire Hope thing?

[@theskywingartist]

...thank you for that bit at the end... I'm not going into detail, but I'm not the 'Perfect Victim' either.

[@axelf9947]

The worst part is that the writers didn't even intend for this to happen. They genuinely thought they were making Bramblestar sympathetic and likable. Oof.

[@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160]

Yeah, but it’s pretty hard to like and be sympathetic towards him if they keep writing him like that.

[@axelf9947]

@@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160 yeah, that's what I'm saying lol

[@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160]

@@axelf9947 Yeah, I got that xD

[@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160]

@Wowie Zowie True lol

[@abigailw7146]

Wowie Zowie *twigbranch*

[@eptck]

ah, the classic “he only hits me because i did something wrong”

[@frankenstein2758]

Double yikes bro

[@humangarbage3019]

@@frankenstein2758 triple yikes bro

[@olivineanimatics477]

@@humangarbage3019 Quadruple yikes bro

[@humangarbage3019]

@@olivineanimatics477 quintuple yikes bro

[@quicksilverchaos4122]

@@humangarbage3019 s*xtuple yikes bro

[@LunamFlore]

"I skipped the bit where she went on trial for her crimes in life. You're welcome." I got curious and looked it up and okay, no, nope, we gotta talk about that bullsh*t "The two wake up in StarClan's territory and are greeted by Larksong, who tells them that they aren't quite dead yet, but their lives are hanging in the balance. Firestar comes along and warns them that they may not be allowed to stay in StarClan due to their deception about Leafpool's kits all those years ago. A trial is held, with Bluestar, Yellowfang, Tallstar, Crookedstar, Moth Flight, and Littlecloud as the judges: Squirrelflight and Leafpool have to explain their reasoning behind breaking the warrior code. Ultimately they decide that Squirrelflight and Leafpool have done more good than harm, and that if they die now, they'll be welcome in StarClan." StarClan actually puts Squirrelflight and Leafpool on trial for something THEY played a part in? For real?!! StarClan was the one who told Leafpool to follow her heart when she asked for guidance on whether she should run away with Crowfeather. They were the ones who gently informed her that she was pregnant, only to LIE to Squirrelflight and tell her that she was barren so that she'd be more inclined to claim Leafpool's kits and they're feckin' PUT ON TRIAL FOR ALL THIS?? F*ck off, for real, I'm so pissed about this. ASHFUR GETS TO GO TO HEAVEN AFTER NEARLY MURDERING AN ENTIRE FAMILY BUT SQUIRRELFLIGHT AND LEAFPOOL'S TICKETS TO HEAVEN HAVE TO BE DEBATED. OKAY THEN. OKAY.

[@almaszericebean1401]

Leafpool deserved better

[@RocketTheRat]

Starclan is full of hypocrites smh

[@Felisidae]

StarClan doesn't deserve the amount of power they hold. They cause WAY more harm than good.

[@LunamFlore]

@@Felisidae My heart wants an uprising against StarClan but my mind suspects that HarperCollins will never have the guts v_v

[@Felisidae]

@@LunamFlore I want there to be a HUGE plot twist where starclan is actually being controlled by one cat to do all these horrible things. Cause some of the things they do make no sense, unless there was actually an evil cat behind it all.

[@ghost-hn2lh]

one of the worst parts of bramblestar being abusive, in my opinion, is that they could have DONE something with him. they could have made him be a great character. and it would mean something because he was tigerstar’s son. i would have loved a book about bramblestar proving his worth, proving that he could be more than just the son of an evil cat, but he never really did

[@JlMMOTHY]

Bramblestar is horrible, but it's either that or bad writing. He has so much wasted potential

[@ghost-hn2lh]

@@JlMMOTHY i do agree that branblestar is horrible and i really wish they did something good with him

[@Bilbz1]

I mean................. Didn't the new prophecy do that?

[@TheRibottoStudios]

@@Bilbz1 tried and failed cause bramblepaw did stand up to his father in tpb

[@Lilybelle-vr3ho]

I agree! TnT I loved the idea of his potential soo much but then they just made him so BAD! I cry

[@ThatOneKaiPerson]

Someone: Wait bramblestar was manipulative? Moonkitti: "gun loading sounds" Always has been.

[@Owenbot3000]

Signs of a moonkitti attack Sign 1 Moonkitti posts video about how bad you are Sign 2 The video is a hour long Sign 3 Moonkittis making valid points Sign 4 Hearing a gun load

[@spacedoge4363]

@@Owenbot3000 LOL

[@frzen-rain6433]

lol

[@ChonkyCats]

She even had her actual cat in the background meowing his agreement of what she said

[@CupRamenZ]

@@ChonkyCats The fact that your name is ChonkyCats makes this comment even funnier 😂

[@glossymoss5577]

“Being annoying is never an excuse to treat someone badly” EXACTLY. THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING FACTS. I’m so glad I’m not the only one that thinks Bramblestar is worse Edit: thank you guys for the likes and sharing your experiences, im so sorry that you guys have had tough times too ;; you guys deserve to be happy

[@dr.fattyzaddy5590]

yesh u r not the only one for I hate the way Bramble acts

[@malaynacase]

@@dr.fattyzaddy5590 Same

[@ohfluffyuwu835]

Always have ((After he becomes a warrior))

[@elliotsweet2046]

I agree!! It’s so annoying as I’m seen as annoying to most neurotypicals but it’s just because I’m autistic and they don’t understand it, and then I’m treated badly or bullied because they perceive me in an annoying or strange light It’s unbelievably frustrating to know people use annoyness as an excuse for abusive behaviour

[@dr.fattyzaddy5590]

@@elliotsweet2046 yesh i FULLY agree

[@SheetGhostWithBones]

Something that bothers me is that Squirrelflight kinda CAN'T leave Bramblestar. They're in the same Clan, they're always going to be around each other. She literally can't escape and I can't even begin to imagine how damn awful that must feel. And Squirrelflight isn't the type of cat to just runaway to a different Clan or vecome a kittypet, there is no escape for her.

[@jittercritter]

Finally someone else says this! Even if she broke up or rejected him, she’s have to deal with his anger over that every single day, not to mention when they started being romantic he was her deputy, and now he’s her leader and she’s his deputy. He’s ALWAYS in a position of power above her. He also threatens to remove her from her position as deputy when she disagrees with him. Imagine what he’d do if she left him. Yikes

[@SheetGhostWithBones]

@@jittercritter Honestly, that stuff makes my insides churn with anxiety for her.

[@cheramiawish9980]

She wanted to be with him. There is some points in the book that they show true mateship and happiness to each other. Like when they escaped the dark forest after being taken over by ashfur, everyone focuses on the bad points when they don’t know there is other stuff off book, if she hated or was scared of him she wouldn’t try to get back with him and miss him when they were broken up.

[@vamppooni]

@@cheramiawish9980 do you know how abusive relationships work?

[@efrenamy]

I agree.

[@honeybumblebee9274]

Bramblestar seems like the kind of guy who calls himself an "Alpha Male"

[@_idk_tbh_]

Legit

[@ssupermarlo]

Bramble Tate

[@FlowerGriffon]

True

[@tsaralexis9459]

@@ssupermarlo what color is your pelt

[@Snow_Sailor]

He runs an alpha male meeting after gatherings, doesn't he

[@rowanfeather2804]

I’m pretty sure the erins just wanted Tigerstars son and firestars daughter to get together, honestly.

[@Cloud_peepon]

They wanted a different type of forbidden love, between good and evil this time. 😂

[@rickmanalwayss]

Like Kovu and Kiara, except that relationship was more healthy

[@GarbageCannot]

@@Mreowr1234 Mothpool would’ve been so much better if they wanted to do Firestar’s kid x Tigerstar’s kid! They actually have a healthy relationship with realistically developed chemistry.

[@cursedalien]

So..... indirect FireTiger.

[@catboy_exorcist1906]

i know, like tawnypelt is RIGHT there

[@AUGGHAHAHA]

“YA JUST LIKE YA FATHER” -leafpools angry ghost

[@Zero_Is_Stopping_Time]

“YOU’LL NEVER BE SHIT” -Leafpool’s ghost

[@zoe.b.8548]

I can only hear this in a Scottish accent

[@zoe.b.8548]

YA EVEN MO ANNOYIN THAN HAWKFROST - Darkstripes ghost

[@daobabyish]

“YA WORSE THAN ME” -BrokenStars Ghost

[@Oakhaze]

“YA SUCK AT YA JOB MATE” -Firestar’s ghost

[@tinyalie1]

Im really alarmed at the relationships in the warrior cats series, either the authors purposely wrote abusive relationships OR they genuinely think those relationships are normal

[@violetskiy854]

BramblexSquirrilflight is one of the erin's favorite ship

[@Romanticoutlaw]

stares at spottedleaf..........................................

[@tinyalie1]

@@Romanticoutlaw firepaw was too young for spottedleaf

[@Romanticoutlaw]

@@tinyalie1 oh yes absolutely, I didn't mean that to hold her up as an example of a good relationship but I can see how it read like that. What I meant was me awkwardly looking at how horrible an example of a relationship she had in her solo arc. That whole situation was... yikes

[@tinyalie1]

@@Romanticoutlaw no im agreeing i cant believe they had that string of relationships, thistleclaw pedophile then spottedleaf does the same to firepaw but oh its ok because shes sweet, never mind that shes a dead medicine cat, THEN her ghost gets between firestar and sandstorm just YIIIIKKKESS THEY PORTRAYED IT AS ROMANTIC

[@gouldiloof]

I’m really sick of seeing people call Bramblestar a good mate and a good cat and then call Squirrelflight a bitch, when they completely ignore how Bramblestar has always treated her.

[@devi---]

ikr?

[@layladeclaire4737]

Literally everyone hates on bramble, no one sympathizes with him.

[@stric9l0l]

@@layladeclaire4737 idk mabey watch the video your replieing to

[@layladeclaire4737]

@@stric9l0l not what I meant, genius. Nobody in the fandom calls him a good mate and no one trashes on Squirrel. There’s a huge bias for her. This comment is completely wrong and out of touch. And frankly, it’s quite stupid how people get all of their opinions from two biased youtubers instead of thinking for themselves.

[@stric9l0l]

@@layladeclaire4737 yes because the fandom got over it this video is 2 years old anyway go back to when this was made (or even befor then) and you'll find a-lot more bramble fans but most ether changed or left

[@vynniev9611]

oh this is... this is spooky. wow. imagine writing such a realistic abusive relationship.... *accidentally.*

[@jokie3224]

Oh seriously, makes one worry about how the authors view or know relationships

[@snakewithapen5489]

I refuse to believe it's accidental at this point. If it is, I'm terrified.

[@topmalk]

@@snakewithapen5489 makes you wonder about the author’s relationships, and why they think this is okag

[@janeoathdragon5793]

I've seen similar situations happen when people are shipping characters that are toxic towards each other, I guess that sometimes when someone is super invested into a couple they like they overlook those things because they are more into the characters being together then how they would actually function. That's my guess anyways I've never really been one for analyzing and writing romance

[@tigerdiamond2486]

@@snakewithapen5489 it his accidental,kate said that brambleclaw was incapable of being abusive,how he one of our most honorable warrior,that he always treated her as a equal and with respect and that he and squirrelflight just have different opinions and partners sometimes feel so intensely to be always racional

[@StarrChild.]

Never noticed this before but Squirrelflight being so desperate for kits could possibly be linked to how she was told she would be barren? She worries about getting older and not being able to have kits, which was a lie she had been forced to accept as truth for years. She fears going back to that, or that lie becoming true with age.

[@prowlinality]

woah "woah" got me 66 likes what

[@C_at_J]

I also found it to be her trying to fix their relationship. When couples are fighting and they don't know how or can't talk it out, they can try to get pregnant to try and fix the problem, even though it often ends in a larger divide than the original one.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

@@prowlinality YES! Their own cat gods LIED TO HER just so they could get what they want! But somehow she’s just as bad as Bramblebutt or Finleap? 😒

[@prowlinality]

@@xRaiofSunshine >:(

[@Cephaloporridge]

another thing: in leafpool's wish, yellowfang tells her shes never going to be able to have kits (which was a lie but she didn't know that at the time making her lean more towards actually adopting the three) so that's a pretty big factor

[@manssman1]

Remember when the whole point of brambles character was to prove to firestar that he shouldn’t judge others on their bloodline/looks? As in, firestar got over being scared of him just because he was related to and looked like Tigerstar. Well the hunters threw away his “good character type” for this.

[@startheangel9760]

For some reason the Erins started treating she-cats like trash

[@manssman1]

@@startheangel9760 eeyup. They are borderline becoming J.K Rowling at this point

[@gouldiloof]

Yeah.. Firestar(heart) was right being sus of him..

[@almaszericebean1401]

@@honeybumblebee9274 especially since he ended abusing firestars own daughter

[@moosefromsky4662]

@@gouldiloof Not really, since Bramble was still a baby to child when he was suspicious of him. No child should be judged for the sins of the father.

[@pinky0558]

The “StarClan gave us claws for a reason” scene is actually horrifying. Brambleclaw’s words Squirrelflight and Lionblaze’s reactions to it It really sounds like Brambleclaw was threatening to hit her

[@MartiniiYeah]

Jesus Christ... that sent chills down my fucking back.

[@Ladywondeer]

Which book?

[@FizzyFizzie]

I don’t think that was his intention, in the book, they’re yapping about battling shadowclan. NOT trying to defend anything but i dont think that was the intention whatsoever

[@loppie_445]

⁠​⁠@@FizzyFizzie True, but i wouldn’t put it past him, especially seeing how he behaves in Squrrielflights hope

[@mxxem_AL]

@@raccoonsrule3090 💀

[@feveraven]

they really had to make ashfur go turbo and try to kill 4 cats so brambleclaw would look better in comparison 😭😭

[@lpsruby-8182]

THANK YOU

[@scaredstiff7176]

this comment made me burst out laughing LOL because everyone knows it's true 😹

[@movedtocupowarriors4205]

THANK YOU FOR COMMENTING THIS.

[@krybutterworth2456]

It's really sad to think that they went that far to make Brambleclaw "look good." It really shows that they knew he was terrible, but found a lazy way out of it.

[@humangarbage3019]

@Wowie Zowie why are you everywhere

[@professionalocchiolist4104]

Squirrelflight: don't murder pregnant women Bramblestar: no Fandom: squilf is so manipulative and bad!!!! :(

[@professionalocchiolist4104]

@@solsticesailor uhh i think you misread my comment

[@hikari3553]

@@solsticesailor Whoosh

[@adamyusuf1805]

@@solsticesailor since when was Squilf a guy?! Let alone abusive!

[@solsticesailor]

@@adamyusuf1805 I misread the comment,

[@adamyusuf1805]

@@solsticesailor oh

[@annawesometheflameingpikac3688]

Sparkpelt clearly knowing her Mom is in an abusive relationship is what hits close to home for me

[@ix3755]

Same here. Only thing is that my mom and I know that my father is a really, really toxic person towards everyone, not just her. She's planning on divorcing him btw

[@annawesometheflameingpikac3688]

@@ix3755 I'm glad to hear you'll hopefully have a way out, and I wish you all the best in the future

[@ix3755]

@@annawesometheflameingpikac3688 This is so late, but thank you so much! My mom is saving up money to move out of state, and so am I.

[@annawesometheflameingpikac3688]

@@ix3755 I know it's not much, but I believe in you! You deserve to get out of this situation, and I trust you'll be able to find happiness where you and your mom end up

[@ix3755]

@@annawesometheflameingpikac3688 Thank you! I appreciate it!

[@MaddHadder]

ashfur is obsessed, bramblestar is abusive, cant poor squirrelflight get a normal mate for once

[@JustDuckiest]

If only Shrewpaw had lived

[@Wren_BurnsHam]

@@JustDuckiestwhy did we have to live in the universe where ShrewPaw died?

[@MaddHadder]

@@kira-channn yes abusive.

[@ShortyJordyB]

ShrewPaw is her cousin too 😭😭

[@cornucatia12yago]

Ashfur is also abusive

[@Flickabee]

Plot twist: Bramblestar isn't actually possessed, he's just being his true self. (:

[@JingoTastic]

I'm not gonna lie, this has been my theory for some time. It makes no sense but I am convinced.

[@canned_beanz1944]

Whoa that- Why does that make such Perfect sense

[@uglyferalcat149]

I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the truth

[@softwhiskers607]

I'd actually prefer it that way lol

[@TioShoutaAizawa]

Omagah perfect

[@phantomcat7990]

How the actual hell did the Erins accidentally write about domestic abuse so realistically?

[@goldieofthegold9169]

No clue

[@ohno5866]

have been in one and thought it was normal?

[@Fuwaketsuu]

+oh no Well in that case, that's pretty concerning.

[@phantomcat7990]

@@ohno5866 that’s... worrying

[@delubayca1290]

@@ohno5866 oh no.

[@RLane-xz5cj]

"Blood runs deeper than anything" is a weird connection to make right after deciding you want to be a good dad to your adopted kits 🤔

[@phantomstarsx9343]

at this point it wouldnt surprise me if the Erin's forgot they werent his (or her) biological kits.

[@brigade7678]

Right!? so nonsensical 😑

[@VampuuriYT]

I'm seriously worried for whoever is writing WC, especially people who wrote Squilf's hope. Like, you don't accidentally write a perfect example of an abusive relationship. Either you did it intentionally or you yourself have experienced an abusive relationship and tought it was normal, "this is what relationships are supposed to be like". If somebody's relationship is similar to Squilf and Bramblestar, they need to break up immediately.

[@thefiretailedweasel6206]

Plot twist: Bramblestar hasn't even been possessed or anything, everyone's just starting to see how much of a toxic and abusive person he is Guys please I am joking

[@killersparky4044]

i get this is a joke but root boi sees his ghost

[@insertishereyeah]

@@killersparky4044 It ends up just being the ghost of BrambleStar's personality before he became an abusive mess (not saying he had much).

[@starvoltnexus3139]

No

[@Octoweaponry]

@@starvoltnexus3139 yes.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

@@Octoweaponry I really don’t like the supervision and I’d rather Retcon it to say that bramble star was possessed of the time and say this was all Ashfur actions If you’re going to make Ashfur a villain go all the way

[@Stephanieshortland]

Firestar watching bramblestar abuse and manipulate his daughter: 👁👄👁

[@Oakhaze]

@@MahkRonAKash He and Sandstorm loved eachother, he defended Squirrelflight and Leafpool against Lionblaze and Jayfeather, he made Sandstorm go to Jayfeather’s den when she was sick cuz he cared about her. The reason you don’t see much development is cuz he’s not the main focus anymore ig

[@Oakhaze]

@@MahkRonAKash The reason he lashed out at them was because he was told that the two would destroy the clans, this sounded like a bad thing so he tried to keep them apart. This is the only bad treatment we see given to Squirrelpaw. As I said he defended Leafpool’s secret and in his super edition he is given the chance to choose Sandstorm or Spottedleaf and he chooses Sandstorm. When Leafpool told Firestar of the bramble vision he agrees saying Brambleclaw would make a good deputy, just because he isn’t given much development with his children and lashes out at his daughter ONCE does not mean he’s a horrible father

[@absollinazimmer2883]

@@MahkRonAKash He tried to keep the clans alive by separating them two bc that’s the msg Cinderpelt got from StarClan. Dude I only see you hating on him even tho there are many arguments against it wtf

[@fireandice1228]

@@MahkRonAKash um if firestar is bad than brambleclaw is dark forest bad

[@aspen-1277]

@@Oakhaze the high way dude is going through every reply section that involves firestar and I don’t think you’ll change their mind

[@furbyjpeg4616]

It's extremely fucked up to me after realizing that growing up, not only was SquirrelBramble my ideal relationship but that they perfectly mirrored my abusive relationship with my last ex. I wish the Erins had handled this better and actually done something about it. It took me six years and a shitty relationship to realize how truly toxic their relationship is and I can't help but wonder if stuff like this played a part in normalizing abuse for me.

[@kingsleysocean45]

I'm so sorry to hear that you used to be in a abusive relationship! :( Also, I agree with you. When I was younger,BC of Squirrels and Brambles relationship, I thought it was okay to be treated badly because 'we are still together after all'. What The Erin's wrote, was a extremely dangerous thing to teach younger readers

[@fallenfrostspirit]

Same... When I was younger I loved their relationship, then I was unlucky enough to experienced a five year relationship similar to it. It was not good. Anyway, I wish the Erins would maybe use the SquirrelBramble relationship to teach about abuse instead of accidentally normalizing it. It would be a very important lesson if they did, one I wish I knew before.

[@GeniusHamsterhe]

I'm so sorry wishing you all the best and to find your true love soon!!

[@justyourlocalcommenter7492]

Firestar: “I should’ve left you in that fire.” Bramblestar: “but cha didn’t!”

[@ssupermarlo]

i am now imagining firestar saying that watching bramblestar from starclan around bramblestar's storm and squirrelflight's hope

[@Cndery]

he could have let brambleshit die, and saved Yellowfang. I would be happier.

[@WeirdCatLover]

@@ssupermarlo Bluestar: “Firestar? Where are you going?” Firestar: “I’m going to go tell cat hitler’s son that there is a prophecy where he must eat a pile of dirt and choke to death. HE DISRESPECTED MAH BABYY THAT MEANS DEATH”

[@Kensuke22]

@@WeirdCatLover me: "lemme join u fire star"

[@molester628]

it would have been better for bramblestar too, he probs faced a lot of bullying due to who his father is.

[@treenaturtle1585]

I love how when Squirrelflight breaks up with her boyfriend and explores other options she's automatically demonized, accused of leading Brambleclaw on, attempting to make her ex jealous, etc. But suddenly when Bramblestar literally openly pursues another woman and buries his face in her hair to smell her one last time nobody bats an eye and assumes this is all normal,, hmm👁👄👁

[@snakewithapen5489]

I've literally seen people hate on squirrelflight and try to justify Ashfur's actions by saying that Squirrel _cheated on him._ They were never in a relationship, Squirrel might have been interested in him for a little while because Bramble was being an absolute POS to her at the time, but Squirrel never cheated on Ash- there's no reason for him to try to murder three cats he believed were here children other than the fact he felt entitled to her because he liked her. Bramble is the apparently unfaithful one, and yet we never see anyone call him out on it, either in the books or in the fandom.

[@treenaturtle1585]

@@snakewithapen5489 Fr it’s just behavior enacted by 12yos who don’t know what a fling is. Squirrelflight’s just treated like some kind of trophy object the whole time and it’s so sick to read :/

[@treenaturtle1585]

@Some Weeb Why don't you think so?

[@bellrookie3499]

Idkw, but the fact that this sounds so similar to how DovexBumble works somehow makes it worse...

[@treenaturtle1585]

@Abigail Ginn yeah I was lmao

[@TQuinn-yy9wy]

"Why would you help your twin sister who is the only medicine cat of this Clan and has been nothing but helpful and kind to everyone" Says the cat who almost murdered his father figure and abandoned his morals for his half brother he knew for a month

[@nyowo]

lOgIc

[@jamarihernandez7117]

*MORALS 100*

[@-zawolf-8325]

Bramble claws reason makes sENcE

[@axelf9947]

I honestly loved Firestar and Bramblestar’s dynamic. But to be honest, that‘s... pretty much the only redeeming part of Bramble’s character. Ugh.

[@BlueMaskGuy]

Isn’t that kinda weird since Firestar was a father figure to Bramblestar and now Bramblestar is dating Firestar’s daughter? 0~0

[@SillyNep]

It's actually heartbreaking what he's done to Squirreflights confidence... She's such an amazing character and her energy has been fantastic since the start tbh, and honestly it felt like he never saw her as a full cat, ever since he PINED AFTER HER WHEN SHE WAS AN APPRENTICE, he was still looking down at her as if she was a stupid child, because apparently that's attractive to him. If he thinks she's so immature then maybe he should stop dating her, he'd be doing her a big favour, even if it hurt her to lose him at the start she'd be better off in the long run.

[@efrenamy]

It is really sad how he drains all the confidence out of her. I agree.

[@yolochip4889]

Have you ever watched the video or what? You make me laugh more.@@DaisyBelll

[@hadleyreynolds8870]

@@DaisyBelll no one said she was perfect or never made mistakes, but the abuse is clear. Watch the video.

[@Marilynn_1275]

Oh hell nah! I do NOT like that implication... But you're definitely correct on all of these points.

[@user-gk6sg1jw3m]

Tbh the only reason the Erin's made them get together is purely based off that bramblestar is tigerstar's son and squirrelflight is firestar's daughter

[@yawninglion1677]

Sad, because they had a perfectly good Mothpool...

[@Anne-wf1vo]

How ironic. He didn't want to be as bad as his dad, but here we are

[@nectar2636]

At least HE somewhat treated his mates nicely... okay maybe not, but better than Bramblebutt here.

[@nectar2636]

@Skywalker Kitty Haha, I think he has a lot of nicknames. I personally call him Bramblebutt. But some say Brashblestar/Brashstar, and some with swear words in it that I prefer not to use. :D! Kinda funny how we have nicknames for certain characters.

[@Weirdanimalboy]

Yeah this is like the weird Tigerstar x Sasha relationship, where he claims to love her but chastises her for her decisions and who she is 😕

[@andrewatkinson4168]

Bramble is WORSE then Tiger

[@mysryuza]

Runs in the family I guess

[@HarvestPeiskos2209]

Moonkitti: ranting Ocelot: *Chirp*

[@Darkmoon67]

c h i r p

[@lesliewolfe7643]

c h i r p

[@batkittii]

c h i r p

[@thebunnygamer9838]

c h i r p

[@theotherghostgirl337]

Ocelot: I too must rant

[@KM-pd8vq]

Here's the thing about Warriors: We love the concepts that fans make, not the books themselves. My favorite past time is making complex, interesting OCs and exploring the OC plotlines that others make. I love the fandom and the creativity that the concept has created, but the books not so much.

[@rose_gold_foxie6336]

im late but THISSSSSS

[@azorimariposa8975]

I am also very late to commenting on this, but yeah- Most Warrior Cats fans don't read most of the books and get most of their information on cannon characters from YT videos People loves the concepts of Warrior Cats because it's so easy to make it your own, but actual Warrior Cats is pretty bad at times-

[@donaverboxwood]

This. This right here is the facts.

[@theMyRadiowasTaken]

ahhh classic. the worldbuilding is more interesting than the plot

[@user-ef8jd7mg1s]

I agree, reading the books makes me actively angry at these xenophobic, ableist, sexist, cultist cats, but once I put them down I enjoy the concepts I was left with, and I get excited to create my own.

[@candiiihearts]

Something that should be notes is that Bramblestar, in multiple instances, uses a very common manipulation/abuse tactic: Love bombing. Love bombing is when a manipulator/abuser realizes that they have upset or are at risk of losing their victim, so, they shower the victim with love, attention, and promises(that usually aren’t fulfilled) in order to make them stay, in order to make them believe that they are loved, even if this affection isnt the norm for their relationship. Another tactic that could be interpreted from his actions is where the abuser gives promises, ideas, etc. to the victim, but either these promises dont have a set date or are far in the future. Whenever they reach the “calm” period in a relationship, at least one promise gets fulfilled. This leads the victim to associate the abuse they receive as just the build up to something good.

[@god_2.0_the_better_version]

I've known about this for a long time but reading that in description made me realize my only friend is doing that to me, I didn't want to believe it since she is a victim of an ex gf doing that to her, and, well, my only friend, but it makes sense now. I'm sorry, that was kind've unrelated, I just felt like this huge gut punch just now and it hurts so now I'm rambling in the replies. Sorry again, probably just ignore this.

[@deranged_dragon9471]

@@god_2.0_the_better_version Hey...just want to check up on you. I've had this same friendship and it's hard to go through. But I do believe you should distance yourself. Do you have a discord? Maybe you'd Iike to talk? I recently lost the same friend and damn it's hard. I wouldn't want really any one to go through it alone like I'm having too.

[@GeniusHamsterhe]

@@god_2.0_the_better_version I'm so sorry, wishing you all the best how are you right now 💗💗💗 I'm sending you the hug!!!

[@GeniusHamsterhe]

@@god_2.0_the_better_version don't stay in toxic relationships please it's awful

[@god_2.0_the_better_version]

@@GeniusHamsterhe Thank you. I've since let go of the friendship. I did it all alone when I had nobody left and it was really hard, but she was 17 and I was much younger, and she uh... well, let's just say, got very weird. Not technically grooming since she's also a minor but the age gap was way too big for that stuff to be normal. I'm not doing much better now, but hey, one more toxic person gone

[@TheRibottoStudios]

I full on believe that they're ONLY together because StarClan needed them to raise Leafpool's kits. And you can't change my mind.

[@dropletdraws8907]

True, and they also were the main male and female protagonists so they Haddddd to be together (I hate this but I’m pretty sure it’s one of the reasons)

[@julesyano4337]

@@dropletdraws8907 male and female protagonists that aren’t siblings? Ship ship ship!!!

[@dropletdraws8907]

@@julesyano4337 this is definitely one of the truest comments(and responses) on this whole post

[@deltastar4147]

I felt like they were going for the whole hero's daughter falls in love with villains sons thing

[@dropletdraws8907]

@@deltastar4147 true

[@xlunnx]

Hey, maybe Squirrelflight wanted children so badly, not just because she is old, but because she was once tricked by Yellowfang into not being able to have kittens, so this is really scary for Squirrelflight.

[@xlunnx]

@@Crowhexer Yes, but for a long time she was deceived about infertility, so when she found out that she could give birth, it was a surprise for her, which could develop a fear of losing such an opportunity again.

[@luana29879]

watch me throwing all the hate on yellowfang for that. Everyone always says how she s such a good character and I’m here to respectfully (or not) disagree. She never stood out to me when she was alive so i didn’t really mind her existence but when she was in star clan GOD I hated every single piece of her. Especially in POT. How she came in jayfeathers dreams every damn time and scolded him for no real reason. How she lied to squirrelflight about kits (that made me so mad I actually threw my kindle across the bed and that’s on anger issues). How she butted in in every single situation even tho nobody needed her. I have many more examples but overall she’s truly one of the most overrated and ANNOYING characters in the whole series

[@iclynnx]

@@luana29879 I usually don't reply or comment much these days, but I have to say I agree here. I didn't think of it before but now that you say it, yes, Yellowfang did exactly what you say she did. I don't like how the Erins treat certain StarClan cats. There's a select few, who are so "important" they never go away nor are replaced by newer cats who have experienced the new ways of the Clans themselves. These few are Spottedleaf (but she's double-dead now), Bluestar, Yellowfang, Rock. Maybe one or two more. It gets annoying when they try to literally control every step the living cats take to get their own version of a perfect ending. I don't like the idea of destiny, a fate you have no control over. In reality we ourselves choose which path to take. We determine ourselves how and why we do things. Our own decisions lead us to situations, even if coincidences happen. Okay... I'm done rambling now.

[@luana29879]

@@iclynnx this made my day and i gotta agree!! Now that you mention it there truly are a few old cats that keep popping up whenever there a an issue and it’s irritating how they always try to fix things their way/the old clan way. Things have changed to much since the first series and honestly although it’s nice to see old characters such as firestar and others who are no longer alive, they should just become background characters especially since they passed away so long ago. I mean ffs, spotted leaf didn’t even live for one whole book and tho she wasn’t that annoying as a starclan warrior she still kept making useless appearances. And her obesssion with firestar became ridiculous. May I start by saying that she was half a life older than him and they had like 5 interactions throughout the whole damn book? And none of them were even slightly leading to anything...romantic. He liked the smell of her fur and the fact that she was kind, and that was it!! How did that turn into this wierd I love him and I visit his dreams situation, I don’t even know. But I guess I let this slide because she wasn’t t really annoying in the other series, she was always nice and never pushy so I guess she was helpful in a way. Rock never really mattered that much to me because he was kinda useless but the fact that he lived so long ago when things were so different and I dunno he had this mysterious aura about him. He was kinda pushy at times but not so much. Bluestar was definitely an interesting character when she was alive although I didn’t like her, she annoyed the shit outta me when she just went crazy. She seemed a bit more chill in starclan but shes pretty overrated and since firestar is there now as the last leader of thunderclan her appearance is pretty much useless. You already know my thoughts on yellowfang. They keep these cats around for no reason srsly, I’d rather hear about ashfur because he ended up in starclan due to yellowfangs insecurities tbh (“his only fault was to love too much”. I’m mean you ve got to be kidding me. The guy went totally bananas after TNP just because he couldn’t suck it up and find another girlfriend. Chile you’re gonna get rejected throughout life, if u can’t understand that then you need serious therapy. He was way too posessive anywayss). I see that we’re getting more of him in the current series which makes me sorta happy because I’ll find rest when he s in the dark forest. But if he kills squirrelflight or bramblestar I’m going to be seriously furious. Anywaysssss sorry for the ramble and old excuse any mistakes I’ve made and I couldn’t be bothered to check for any. Also if you could give me your insta so maybe we can chat there ( I find u rlly nice!!) I’d love it!!

[@fortressnearabridge]

I think it's a combination of both. She lived with believing she couldn't have children so long that she fears getting older and losing that opportunity.

[@boipoi7836]

Come get your "I hated Bramblestar before it was cool" badge here.

[@kimhyunjinbarksjeonheejina9759]

👍

[@sodadile]

Hiii

[@popitpoprocks]

eyyy

[@_idk_tbh_]

How much? *Grabs fathers wallet*

[@reo_1907]

imma go grab one of those

[@yanmeggo]

I love this. I used to not like Squilf, I was indifferent about Bramblestar, but this really opened my eyes. And after watching this, with the realization that Squilf is literally killing herself in this new arc to fight for her abuser's life is so depressing

[@honeybumblebee9274]

Yeah, it just makes me so sad to think about how the abuse has been going on for so long that Squilf has literally developed Stockholm syndrome.

[@Trans_Reed_13]

@@honeybumblebee9274 and the fact that she was terrified of Ashfur while he was possessing Bramblestar and flinched a lot during that time yet still thought it was her own mate...

[@thesnailphilosopher]

Bramblestar to Jessy: I’ll never forget you Jessy: *is never mentioned again*

[@Clooover]

Also Squilf and Shrewpaw were best friends but like- she never even thought of him after he died-?

[@Weirdanimalboy]

I had no idea that Jessy was supposed to be a romantic interest for Bramblestar so at the end of the book I was like "Where is this coming from...?"

[@axe5745]

I genuinely felt sick when she said "Why did I ever want kits?" after she came back.

[@skyshale]

same, same

[@aischengoldworm1182]

Honestly looking back at the beginning of their relationship, I gotta say the age gap is honestly really weird. I mean Brambleclaw is a warrior before Firestar's even leaves for his quest, and he even though he has kits soon after that still makes Brambleclaw quite a bit older than her. I did some rough timeline calculations for a fandom project and if we kepts all the events canon that would make Brambleclaw almost 2 years old at the beginning of Midnight. Even though they don't get together until after Squirrelflight becomes a warrior, I feel like they're relationship is comparable to a 25 year old dating an 18 year old who just graduated high school. As Moonkitti pointed out, there was always and inherit power imbalance and looking back it's kind of disturbing to see. ESPECIALLY when Bramble trivializes Squirrelflight's feelings or treats her like a child.

[@loganthebookdragon]

@RobotBlue 😰

[@dahannes6739]

@RobotBlue 25 and 18 is not a disgusting age gap Whats wrong with you

[@dahannes6739]

@RobotBlue no whats wrong with you, do you really think theres a great difference if youre 18 or 20 years old?

[@dahannes6739]

@RobotBlue check my Profile and tell me im 12 again

[@East9211]

They’re animals. It’s really not that deep 🤦‍♀️

[@fairycat23]

"I just want justice for my little red cat." I haven't been active in this fandom for about a decade, and I skim TVTropes and the Warriors wiki to know what the heck has happened in the books I haven't read, but I just might write an AU in which Squirrelflight gets justice.

[@user-tk4mr8nk6l]

write it and link it i will read it

[@AnOmoriFanatic]

Oh boy do i have a warrior cats map for you

[@amberlarch7922]

The fact that he’s “punishing” her makes me beyond angry. She’s just his little object who stepped out of line and needs to be taught to never NEVER do it again.

[@NutpuffTheWolf]

Yeah I hate him

[@ohoh8454]

Hes treating her like a child and it pisses me off

[@elm-ishh5718]

petition to kick his ghost

[@moni8908]

@@elm-ishh5718 yessss eject himmmmmm

[@frog8366]

@@elm-ishh5718 i’ll sign.

[@flippylekitty]

“Oh, Bramblestar isn’t that bad” Moonkitti: *Im about to end this man’s whole career*

[@robynsadlyisnttaken4692]

i was talking to my friend about how bad bramblestar is, and she was just like "well i don't hate him yet because he hasn't attacked her or anything so it isn't that bad" and believe me i rephrased atleast 3 whole websites about emotional abuse to her and most likely got her really concerned on how i knew so much stuff about this so that was a fun 2 hours

[@Randomreplacement]

@@robynsadlyisnttaken4692 all my friends are like ‘nonono Bramblestar did nothing wrong’

[@gummychee]

@@Randomreplacement All my friend are like “what’s warrior cats?” or “ are you a furry?” lol

[@flippylekitty]

@@robynsadlyisnttaken4692 What the fudge is wrong with your friend-

[@robynsadlyisnttaken4692]

@@flippylekitty i have no clue honestly-

[@Wormmings]

I’ve /always/ found it incredibly off putting how bramble was a *warrior* when squilf was born. Just another way he has power over her.

[@Littlefox1213]

I wonder, when did he become a warrior? Skipped ARC 1(oopsie!) and in Midnight he’s apparently a young warrior while SF is an apprentice?

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

@@Littlefox1213 He became a warrior in Firestar’s Quest and about four months later Squirrelflight was born.

[@TorbieGinger]

They have a age gap of like a few months-a year max.

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

@@TorbieGinger More like close to 2 years, depending on how long Firestar’s journey to Skyclan took and when Squirrelflight was born.

[@jellybeanmutt3228]

@@TorbieGinger in human years new warriors are 18-20 Meaning when she was a BABY he was an adult She was a teenager when they got “close” on the Journey they got together as adults but the gap is still weird.

[@meevins]

it's sort of frustrating that a lot of peoples takeaway from this is to try and debate whether bramble, ash or another cat would be a better mate as if the concept of her just being single and not wanting or having a mate is a concept that doesn't exist. not to mention both bramble and ash are terrible, terrible partners in their own ways "but--" no they're both awful and wouldn't be a good match with or without the broken code arc existing.

[@nicknackpaddywacks]

Moonkitti exposed Bramblestar so hard she singlehandedly caused warrior cats to trend on tumblr, and I'm enjoying every second of it

[@thistle_flowers5018]

whaaaat the warriors fandom is on tumblr??? do you know of any good tags I can look through? Cant believe I never knew

[@wes1759]

The way Warriors treats its female characters in general is just very bad.

[@zippyshuman1464]

I was going to write that Mistystar is the exception but- that's right she was trapped in a rotting hole and almost starved to death. Wow I never realized that... All the strong female characters (except Sandstorm (?)) either end up uncharacteristically grouchy (Mousefur) or have some sort of traumatic experience in their lives. (Mistystar, Mothwing, Leopardstar, Bluestar, Hollyleaf, Ivypool, Yellowfang, Sorreltail, Spottedleaf (though SL wasn't that independent)... the list goes on) oh and let's not forget about Willowpelt who was killed off for no apparent reason and then never gets mentioned again

[@mckaylamarille8630]

@@zippyshuman1464 Holy shit you're right. What's up with that?!

[@oliwkaz5173]

@@zippyshuman1464 So was Shrewpaw, Rainwhisker, Runnigwind, Hazeltail, Whiethroat, Foxleap, Mudfur, Brindleface, Molepaw, Tadpole...

[@Oakhaze]

This comment made me think about Daisy and Spiderleg’s relationship ship

[@axelf9947]

Ivypool is Good. I think that's about it, to be honest.

[@algiz_3696]

Yeah this is why I stopped reading warriors. Once Brambleclaw/star became the protagonist I felt the story went from a classic hero tale to a horrible inconsistent mess with now ableism, forced religions, normalized abusive relationships, sexism and no choice in a persons destiny. what ever happened to simple character archs and plots that still teach a lesson without forcing it down your throat

[@jittercritter]

Honestly yeah. It would be awesome to have a protagonist that rejects all of these issues, bc they have been a problem in like every single arc

[@devi---]

i stopped reading the series after squilf's hope.. it really messed me up inside after i just had a bad abuse situation with a family member

[@random3545]

that’s so true. after brambleclaw became protagonist it became messy, drama-filled and annoying.

[@goldenretrieversarethebest8119]

i agree with some of the things you said but not all of them. Personally I think the formula just got old.

[@KiwiDrawz]

This is why when I revisit Warriors I don't go any further past A Vision Of Shadows. The series has gotten way to complicated going further than just Clan cats living under the guidance of their ancestors it's now going in all different directions like POSESSION?! Have they really run out of ideas that they now dig in to all this supernatural stuff why can't it just be simple anymore with a character vs a villain with no big plot holes left

[@pinky0558]

Brambleclaw should’ve been like an older brother to Squirrelflight. Like if he saw Firestar as a father in place of Tigerstar

[@Moqnxydotc]

Yeah they have more of a sibling relationship rather than a romantic relationship

[@brigade7678]

you are SO right! Even having them try to date but realize they love each other in a more platonic sibling way would have been WAY better

[@Vivigreeny25]

Fr

[@aviomons]

I think.... Moonkitti dislikes Bramblestar.. I’m not quite sure though. If only she made a documentary on how Bramblestar is terrible. Hmmm

[@vivi_art7121]

Yeah it would be *really* helpful if she did

[@akevdisbejvsjsvhrjsbsjdhdvajnh]

Yeah i wonder why she hasn’t yet?

[@inugamiwang9704]

That would be cool to watch.

[@aris1869]

Oh welll, i guess this short video will do

[@vari6588]

damn it’s just really hard to tell..hopefully she makes a super really long documentary about it

[@jasonlpap]

“Being annoying doesn’t mean you need to treat someone badly” me: shows my younger brother him: I’ll just pretend I didn’t see that

[@snybies]

How nice it would've been only having one brother

[@bgmarshall]

Shows my OLDER sister Her: imma pretend I didn't see that (2 years older)

[@creepycrawwly]

Huh I feel you

[@koifish4276]

My friend : I'll still smack you

[@Feezee223]

Looks at my older brother.

[@mowserbedowser5436]

Dear Squilf, 1. Dig big hole. Very deep. 2. Put deathberries into Bramble's fresh kill 3. Put dead body into hole before he revives. Bury it. Let him suffocate eight times 4. Go to moonstone and take over clan. Yay SquirrelStar! 5. Bramblestar goes to dark forest hurray the end

[@theskywingartist]

Unfortunately we all know the Erin's won't let Their Golden Child go to the Dark Forest

[@JayVasco2282]

Are you trying to repeat brokentail's death all over again? We already know how that turned out when yellowfang made her own son eat deathberries so he can die poisoned instead of fighting to the death.

[@stevenbet6837]

6. Completely ignore or make up some kind of thing about Bramble's death :D

[@molester628]

squirrelstar would suck ngl

[@Diamondr11Blue]

Wtf

[@deerlyqueery]

It's honestly scary how closely this follows an abusive relationship. Makes you wonder if one of the writers was or is in a similar relationship and thinks that this is just normal.

[@muffinland8660]

Jesus tapdancing Christ, did Starclan really put her on *trial* for doing the thing that they lied and manipulated and forced her into doing?

[@leomajor4145]

Wow I just realized that 😒

[@alovelydeadfish]

Yeah :/

[@sillygoosegio]

honestly im pretty sure that, on the darker side of things, starclan might actually be really corrupt? i play with the idea that it's actually some kind of cult that all the clans are tied into

[@alixmalone19]

I haaaaaaaate it. How are they going to lie and manipulate her into doing something and then try to punish her? I wish Squirrelflight had called them out on it.

[@Theartisticyoshi]

@@sillygoosegio Honestly, I don’t even think Starclan being corrupt is an idea as much as it is fully canon. We have enough moments throughout the book series showing Starclan doing some very morally questionable things, especially the fact that cats only get sent to the Dark Forest if they defy Starclan or support the Dark Forest in life, not if you do anything actually atrocious (looking at you, Ashfur). What really concerns me is the fact that these clans have been following the same societal structure for so many generations with no addressing the flawed parts of their culture nor their code because “dead ancestors’ word is law, and if you disagree, prepare to be chastised”. The clans truly are a cult.

[@nyanbinary87]

for me, the worst part is it all worked. i hated squirrelflight because i was a young, impressionable reader. i've grown past that, but i haven't read the books recently enough to really remember bramblestar's behavior. i know by now its wrong, but as a kid, the tactics WORKED. i was fully on bramblestar's side once. i wasn't even out of elementary school. if i hadn't learned better by now, i could've become bramblestar. watch what you're writing and how it's presented. the books tried to present bramblestar as sympathetic, and i, an elementary school kid, believed it. i believed that bramblestar was in the right because i couldn't have known better and nothing showed me otherwise because bramblestar is intended to be sympathetic. i also do not have some of the books that demonstrate their relationship, as i don't own more recent books, but i have many and they all contributed. YES, THESE ARE CAT BOOKS. but i learned so much from all the books i read and this was almost one of them. i almost learned that being bramblestar is okay, is good, is right. i did learn it, but not fully, and i have been working to undo that idea within themselves. you CANNOT dismiss the lessons any fiction can teach, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

[@purple6242]

THIS! I was in the same exact situation and as a young impressionable kid I didnt like Squilf either because the authors presented her in such a way were to a kid she was in the wrong. They need to be careful how they write things that they 'for kids' because most kids will think of that as normal witch is incredibly dangerous.

[@nyanbinary87]

@@purple6242 I hope later books present her better, i largely lost interest past omen of the stars, but i doubt it after seeing this video, as even if they present squirrelflight as in the right, bramblestar is still........whats the word.......not fully presented as unsympathetic, more as a neutral party whos been sympathetic? it does not fill me with confidence.

[@nectar2636]

I read Warriors much older than you started probably, so I was so confused. I though Squirrelflight was just fine, and interesting character, while Bramble just saying how annoying she is. Which is why I also don't find Jayfeather heartless or cold, like how other cats say he is, but in his mind, or even out of his mind, I can see how he truly cares for his Clanmates beneath that layer of standoffish-ness. But I have to agree, its frustration how it worked. How Bramble's attempts and everything worked out for him, and I feel so sorry for Squirrelflight.

[@pikathemimikyu6655]

Im in elementary school and I knew Brambkestar was being unfair at time, though I used to really like him. Not i see his true self.

[@unripetheberrby6283]

Good good GOOD very good post here. oh my goodness I'm nearly at a lose for words. I'm sorry. Yes, strongly agree.

[@kiingdomkey3857]

ashfur’s literal fucking brother was a kittypet???? the lengths the erin’s will reach just to justify why squilf got together with bramble is such bullshit

[@luker2935]

You know she's serious when she doesn't draw Ashfur with long blonde hair

[@BuzzoBeee]

Fr

[@pebblesgum]

I feel like bramblestar wasted squirrelflight's life

[@purple6242]

YESSS And it's soo sad bc Squirrelflight could've done so much

[@megara83]

@@purple6242 chill, she won’t die tomorrow 🤣

[@tigerdiamond2486]

@@megara83 she almost did tho

[@megara83]

@@tigerdiamond2486 lmao

[@alexander-zy7nt]

@@megara83 yeah she could still live for way more books, i mean look at graystripe hfks

[@rosefawn]

I have never liked brambleclaw, I was so confused why everyone liked him since he was just so horrible to everyone. Bramblestar made him so unbearable I physically cannot stand him

[@ohmicahmicah]

Then sit down

[@Silver-yh9hk]

@@ohmicahmicah xD

[@plutossky7534]

Honestly same. Unlike with other characters he never grew on me. He annoyed me so much. I'm glad this video exists.

[@heyheydjhdj]

Same i hate him-

[@andreafleming7296]

Lilrose Fawn When i was younger reading the books i related to him because i didnt want to be affiliated with my father because of certain reasons 😅

[@ingeborgthingvold6430]

I would like to add that Bramblestar has more power over Squirrelflight as his deptuty instead of a warrior. Demoting her from deputy would be humiliating for her as even the other clans would see it, and expecially since Bramble is her mate. Threatening to take such belitteling actions just adds on to the layers of abuse, and humiliation is a common abuse tactic.

[@majasol123]

This usually happens if a female of any kind opposes a lead in a headstrong or brave way its perceived as pushy and desperate. And if they are active and spontanious they are overwelming and irritating. Sadly, these things are often said about bolth real and fictional women.

[@geministrial950]

THIS

[@random3545]

so true

[@crmpldleaves]

@@geministrial950 IS SO TRUE THAT IT'S SAD

[@Kensuke22]

Oh I wonder whyyy......

[@hoopdogtheking2348]

And this is why Squirrel saw no difference when Ashfur took over Bramble's body. Ha ha. :'(

[@seineevee]

Haha.... :,(

[@yuyuyashasrain]

I keep reading this in the voice of chuck white from American dad

[@WarmBreadBearBuddy]

**laughs at own sad joke** Me: hahaha yeah… ʏᴇᴀʜ... (;´༎ຶٹ༎ຶ`)

[@LocalFloppa.]

What...?

[@WarmBreadBearBuddy]

@@LocalFloppa. Go away, nobody likes you (Just kidding I like you so far…)

[@someoneimsure]

"being annoying is never an excuse to treat someone badly" As someone who finds Squirrelpaw annoying, I AGREE.

[@autvmnn.]

@@MahkRonAKash she is "not lile the other she-cats"

[@autvmnn.]

@@MahkRonAKash it was a joke lmao I'm aaying shes more entertaining and makes a better protagonist because shes "not like the other she-cats" she's a new personality in these books

[@autvmnn.]

@@MahkRonAKash yes, i agree she's better

[@autvmnn.]

@@MahkRonAKash ok

[@oo.Mollyn]

@@MahkRonAKash oh I've written a very long au for squirrelflight! I like turning cats into more villian like characters cuz I like those but basically the au is about squirrel taking back control in he relationship by killing off or taking the things bramble loves most and having leaf make up some prophecy on how StarClan disapproves of him and how StarClan would never accept him.

[@sooshwa4180]

So basically, Squilf was a bratty apprentice and a great warrior, and Bramblestar was a great app and an bratty Warrior.

[@Littlefox1213]

Oh god-

[@BugsyBugYT]

dun dun dun

[@jabisdumb]

The barely audible steadying breath you had to take at 52:09 before “why are you doing this to me?” is really heartbreaking and makes it clear just how fed up you were with this abusive, manipulative garbage cat.

[@blackcatmoon8118]

me: oh maybe its another one of her shorts Moonkitti: ArE YoU SuRe AbOuT tHaT

[@ryeish]

YEAH ITS ONE HOUR

[@SquidsINCIsABadYouTuber]

Ocelot filler arc

[@mossinvasion]

YES

[@mcforgaming]

I didn't know this was a hour when I saw the vid

[@roundestrow1et]

it's not a short, it's a long

[@lilaccherri7584]

The Erins had the ability to stop this terrible relationship when they didn't have any important things to do in later books, in bramblestars storm jessy shows up being a love interest for bramblestar. Bramblestar thinks of cheating on his cat wife with jessy, this should've been the breaking point in the relationship but for some reason it wasn't. They should have been apart, the only actual reason bramblestar didn't cheat in that book is because he raised kits with squirrelflight?? It's ridiculous in every way.

[@chxrrybxmb8204]

It wouldn't be cheating though, because they broke up

[@testerwulf3357]

@@chxrrybxmb8204 They were still together. Just taking some time off from each other. It’s called a break I think? You take time off from the relationship then make up later or fully break up, as you’re not exactly broken up I still count it as cheating. It’s only not cheating if the two agree to seeing other people in the meantime. Imagine having a small break from your significant other only to find out that they took that time to get laid with as many people as possible?? You’d feel like they don’t truly love you. What’s the point in maybe getting back together when clearly it doesn’t affect them since they have others to get laid with? or they might find someone they love more than you.

[@chxrrybxmb8204]

@@testerwulf3357 I agree, and i hate brambleclaw, with all my heart but I really don't see anything that says they were on anything but a break up.

[@lilaccherri7584]

@@FantasticFawnleap he was on a break, not completely broken up.

[@lilaccherri7584]

To add onto this, they were on a break but if squirrelflight had known about what had happened between the two of them they would never have resumed their relationship.

[@rebeccan7276]

Being abused does not bring out the best in people, so it bothers me to see "they reacted badly to abuse!" used against the victim to justify the abuser. Its a weird narrative and I can't exactly blame the fandom for not all reading deeper than the author's intended message which is confusing to say the least but I do wish more people saw the implications, love how you laid it out

[@VenusianVenus]

I feel like everyone forgets that stormfur had a crush on squilf before Brook. He would have been a much better mate for squilf imo, but alas, the Tribe calls.

[@manatee4578]

Me: casually doing school Moonkitti: *Bramblestar is Worse* Me: OH HECK YEAH *procrastination session*

[@amyswanson2857]

ƠʆƝƝƖƝ same

[@animalcr8zed22]

Same...Moonkitti comes before school!!!

[@mackpluis]

Sameee XD

[@jasonlpap]

Me in ELA class

[@charleshills1408]

THE WAY I READ THIS JUST AS I REALIZED IM LATE FOR CLASS-

[@dotdedo]

As someone who was in a real toxic relationship, Squirrelflight is 100% justified in fighting back even if it sounds harsh. A big a indicator someone you love is in a toxic relationship is they have sudden 'anger issues' for lack of better term. We get so frustrated of having to just deal with it and our concerns not being taken seriously by our abuser that we lash out at either them or other people, something I did a lot back then and most abusers take this as an oppertunity to gaslight the victim in front of complete strangers. ie - the abuser might say something, or even film it saying "Look how she's yelling at me guys? She's totally crazy!" while they act calm and collected. This is also why a lot of victims struggle with denial and think they are the real toxic person instead.

[@pupville1055]

+Zack Victor - Brilliant point, dude. I'm in the same boat (except with my sole parental figure rather than a romantic one), and often said parent will use similar tactics presented in this video. My sister (unlike me, who 90% just sits there and takes it) would lash out. Of course, our parent used this as a means of justifying (well, *another* justification) for her treatment of us. People get sick of being treated cruelly and they hit a breaking point. Reacting angrily to mistreatment is an understandable thing. Also worth noting, once my sister moved out, her seemingly 'irrational' anger fell away almost immediately.

[@justaperson8381]

As someone who has been in a very manipulative and toxic relationship, the tactic that most abusers use is to make you feel weak and stupid.

[@mmmm-lg2mj]

@Grace Selvanayagam you should tell someone you can trust about that

[@BrightJuni]

@Grace Selvanayagam my dad did that to my mum, and when he divorced her he started doing it to me. Tell the school therapist before it hits you or hurts your mom too much

[@sparkledust3578]

Yeah, I hate when the victim's anger at their abuser is taken out of context and people paint THEM as the abusive one because their "yelling looks scary" or something

[@gracieporter8857]

The fact that warrior cats and moonkitti has taught me more about abuse than school has

[@infrared953]

"Everything I do feels wrong at the moment". I knew I was in an abusive relationship, but I realized how real my experience is when I heard this line. I've always felt this way. I grew up feeling this way (parent abuser). It seems hard to believe squirrlflights experience wasn't intentional. I didn't notice all of this when I read the books, just like I never realized I was being abused my whole life up until recently. I wish the books could offer an answer

[@vaporskies63]

I'd like to add the fact that (SPOILERS) In the broken code, possessed Bramblestar treats Squirrelflight badly. He guilt trips her, abuses her both physically and mentally, and abandons her. Now this behavior can be excused on the fact that it isnt really Bramblestar. But what unsettled me the most when reading was how the clan responded. A large portion of the clan didn't seem too bothered about it for a while. Why? Because this has become a normal Bramblestar thing. Nobody figured out that Bramblestar was possessed because this new cat is acting a lot like Bramblestar. I have read all four books so far btw.

[@dergs_and_stuff]

What book did that occur in? I'm very curious.

[@MisterMythical]

@@dergs_and_stuff The Silent Thaw, with a bit of this in Veil of Shadows as well.

[@arvo-noon]

*O h n o*

[@leopardus_paradalis]

He was already treating her badly before he got possessed in that book

[@rowanheart8122]

Literally nobody started noticing something was off until he stopped bathing and going on patrol

[@nellbell2568]

Bramblestar's Storm: We need more kittens Squirrelflight's Hope: Will you ever shut up about kittens?

[@somangiscute6370]

xD I just realised that...

[@Em-cy5ls]

I wonder if his mindset changes after what happens Dandelionkit and Juniperkit, as he doesn’t want to have to experience the tragedy of losing any more kits?

[@nellbell2568]

@@Em-cy5ls Oh, that hurt me. I eish it would have gone into more detail on the loss of their kits. It could have been some great character development for Bramblestar if he was afraid to have kits, not seemingly just being controlling.

[@Em-cy5ls]

@@nellbell2568 agreed. I really like Bramblestar and wish his character was written better, it’s sucks that they kind of made him a bit controlling and rude

[@patchzefox]

Well to be fair, thunderclan is big enough

[@CupRamenZ]

Squilf: breathes in Brambleclaw’s general direction Brambleclaw: *And I took that personally*

[@keyrel2404]

As someone who was in an abusive relationship...yeahp. This is accurate. And to take it further; Bramblestar reads like a narcissist. He has very typical narcissistic behavior, especially the type of abuse used. Was it intentional? It's possible...if it wasn't intentional, then it's the result of Bramblestar not being developed as a character properly at all...but honestly, since other characters are pointing out the issues of the relatinship, it looks intentional.

[@GeniusHamsterhe]

I'm so sorry wishing you all the best ❤️❤️❤️

[@GeniusHamsterhe]

Sending you the 🫂🫂🫂 how are you right now, darling? 💗💗💗

[@seapinecone2869]

The Erins need to break them up and make Squilf realise he’s abusive. This would teach young readers what abuse is, and that this is a form of that. It’s so horrifying a child would read this series and think this is normal. This normalises abuse, and it’s not ok. If they break up and show how abusive Bramble was, it MIGHT get reverse SOME of the damage it has caused. They also need to cover that Bramble is 100% in the wrong, but that abusers such as him doesn’t always know what this is, but they need to fix their behaviour.

[@NutpuffTheWolf]

YESSSSS

[@thistle_flowers5018]

I really hate how the new ark is making it seem like Bramble really cares about and wants to see Squirrelflight. Hearing all this really puts her actions into context now... how desperate she is to see him alive, how upset she is at the concept of his death, how hard it is for her to accept that he’s not who he used to be...

[@petalleaf2808]

@@thistle_flowers5018 Same. It's not really good to show that kind of response of a victim in a very strained/bad relationship, especially when little kids might be reading these books. Hopefully though, with this video and a lot more discussions out on the internet, they can become educated on why Bramblestar and Squirrelflight's relationship is no longer good.

[@acowinthebarn3312]

I mean YES, but the thing is, I don't even think THEY realize what he's doing is...WRONG. That's the issue I find with a lot of their books - they don't address serious issues like this because it seems like they don't even realize it's a bad thing. I mean, they called a book where a minor gets stalked by a pedophile "Spottedleaf's Heart." Either they're very distasteful, or they didn't even realize what they'd written was as serious as it was.

[@MarcPlayYatagarasu]

Unfortunately that will not happen because Something that everyone forgets is that he is one of the authors' favorite characters and she is one of the least favorite characters of one of them.

[@plutossky7534]

Squirelflight should've just joined the lesbian cat cult Edit: YESSS TAWNYFLIGHT SHIPPERS UNITE

[@abigailw7146]

Tawnypelt would have been much better to her, plus it pushes the whole fire x tiger thing

[@plutossky7534]

@@abigailw7146 Tawnypelt would be better she's a sweet gal

[@dilbertbilbertcrabbert1868]

I guess Tawnypelt likes ginger cats then.

[@lumiinesce]

i've never heard of squirrel x tawny but im all here for it

[@krosis2774]

@@abigailw7146 omfggg yes 🥺💖

[@jittercritter]

Honestly I’m pretty sick of ppl who don’t know how to write relationships forcing relationships into their stories. If you can’t write relationships… then either learn or just don’t. Stories don’t have to have romance to be good 🤦‍♀️

[@echo5435]

If I were squilf and bramblestar told me “you’re supposed to support me” I’d say “well you’re my mate, you’re supposed to support me too”

[@Draconicdisciple]

Exactly, they really just weren't good for each other at all.

[@mooneatsworms]

im not gonna lie, Bramblestar's Storm from what ive seen reads like some fanfiction im not even kidding, that "Is she always like this?" line just felt like some 14 year old wrote it

[@Rainchu89]

I read it, it was basically a fanfic, not even that good of one. It had a lot of weird moments that went nowhere, like Bramblestar noticing that Tigerheart and Dovewing ”Fought as if they had been raised with each other” then Bramblestar never thought of it again. Jessy was... Weird, honestly, she just came out of nowhere, was really into Clan life, then left and insisted Squirrel and Bramble should be together because they had an unbreakable bond. I didn't like it.

[@thefiretailedweasel6206]

But the fact that the whole abusive behavior was unintentional does kind of alarm me, bcs like Spottedleaf's book, they're portraying a dangerous, toxic relationship as normal or even "uwu quirky uwu" It makes me worry for the Erins and wonder if these are relationships that they have been or are currently in. It makes me wonder if they think these sorts of relationships are normal and what that could mean for them. Eh...never met your idols, I guess.

[@deedeedan8681]

What relationship are you talking about from Spottedleaf's book? (Literally didnt even know there was a book for her so I know nothing about any of it 😭😭)

[@thefiretailedweasel6206]

@@deedeedan8681 between Spottedpaw (little spottedleaf) and Thistleclaw. Moonkitti did a video on it. Edit: it's this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/op3boKaGmbCmsKs

[@deedeedan8681]

@@thefiretailedweasel6206 just watched and jeeeeeeeeeesus christ on a stick that is a MESS

[@thefiretailedweasel6206]

@@deedeedan8681 yeah

[@anoushkashenoy692]

but you’re missing the point. spottedleaf’s heart was clearly a take on pedophillia, otherwise vicky wouldn’t have used it as reasoning as to why he went to the dark forest. the REAL issue with spottedleaf’s heart was *how* it resolved. spotted x thistle was intended abuse, squirrel x bramble wasn’t, but they’re both badly written.

[@dg9953]

My heart warmed when Moonkitti used BGA's correct pronouns

[@violetskiy854]

Where was that part

[@turtle150]

it's the bare minimum

[@violetskiy854]

@@turtle150 that's kinda rude

[@clawcakes]

@@turtle150 yes, it is in fact the bare minimum, and the fact that people need to be praised for it. isn't fun. but that doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it, hm?

[@turtle150]

@@clawcakes ya sorry u don't need to get all fancy w me, it was like a month ago idk how I was feeling that day but imma edit it

[@ijboljayfeather]

i’m pretty late to this video and this comment means nothing to everyone but i just have to say this video, stupid as it is, made me start thinking maybe the relationship i was in was unhealthy. and now, months later, we’re broken up and i’m watching this again. he was almost exactly like brambleclaw and it’s just sad. i hope nobody ever experiences a relationship like this again, it’s absolutely horrible and i’d wish it on no one.

[@Mystiqued]

I came here too comment this too!❤😭

[@nailllstolemykidney]

IM SO SORRY FOR YOU (Also i think im The only one who liked brambleclaw as apprentice and warrior before omen of the Stars)

[@JingoTastic]

Hey! HEY!! I'm so proud of you! You did the thing! You made it! I love you and though the uphill battle is long I hope you know the view from the top is beautiful!!

[@ijboljayfeather]

@@JingoTastic thank you so much!!! that means a lot :) ❤❤❤

[@grilledtapeworm7779]

Moonkitti's opinion is holy and thats a fact

[@spring5022]

Yeah

[@cocoacat.pngggg]

Ikr

[@pricklythepear4900]

Hallelujah

[@Freezinglion]

Yesh

[@virginasol3031]

Me: *Cris as Hollyleaf is my favorite cat*

[@Lee-ss8yj]

"her mate was a kind tom" idk why but this comment about Larksong really hit me. Like she acknowledges that Bramblestar isn't kind towards her and is happy that at least her daughter isn't receiving the same abuse as she does :(

[@user-gi3cj2uw7d]

This video made me realize that I had abusive friendship and how wrong my parents treat me Sooo. Now I'm trying to heal. Thank you!

[@theskywingartist]

Hope your doing better!

[@user-gi3cj2uw7d]

@@theskywingartist much better, thanks! I visit a therapist now :)