The Stupidest Argument About Slavery

[@BrandonF]

This video is surging in popularity again! So what better time to shamelessly promote myself? If you're interested in the topic of this video, you may also enjoy my new book, "Something Like Philosophy" which is all about trauma and suffering throughout military history. It's an anthology book filled with 8 articles and is the beginning to what I hope will become a long-running series. You can find the first volume here: www.nativeoak.org/bookshop

[@Samboy47]

Very shameless 😭

[@atcraft1070]

Fun fact: The Sega Mastersystem was longer on the market than the confederacy lasted.

[@Rufusdadoofus]

It is I just got recommended

[@scrittle]

shill

[@stevonwhite8933]

@@atcraft1070 My lack of relationship status, has lasted longer than the confederacy… Gotta laugh at yourself sometimes🙃, lol

[@Camo1177]

If you say ‘yes I consent’ but you didn’t have the option to say no, then you really didn’t consent.

[@lady.m0rgue]

This is such an important element of this and any conversations regarding subjected people. coercion is often an afterthought when talking about consent. It’s so harmful to hold people to the words they use when in danger of multiple outcomes. Sometimes saying yes is a compromise of self. A split second choice of a life of pain versus death is what so many people have to make. holding the victim accountable for this and not the perpetrator is a harmful cycle we are currently trying to break out of. Thank you for saying this!

[@Helperbot-2000]

Ah yes, coconut island

[@Dhampire1976]

The fact this is so hard to understand for people is terrifying

[@Diaboloboss-e1n]

and even if someone consents to do something horrible that doesn't mean we should always do it. If 6 millions of Jews ask to be treated like in the 40s we should do it? We'll be right because they consent to that?

[@Nerobyrne]

@@Helperbot-2000 bro just don't eat it's a real choice, totally!

[@SpiderPig34543]

In regards to the tool argument and the abuse of tools. I am a machinist by trade and there are many tools that you use that are expected to wear out and break down. All that you do is calculate how much this breakdown costs and bake that into the cost of the good. To apply that same logic to a person would be abhorrent.

[@nvelsen1975]

"To apply that same logic to a person would be abhorrent." Lol, my man that sort of stuff is worryingly common. I had a labour union representative badger me about my 'disrespect' towards a boomer who ignored safety regulations. I came down hard on boomer and demanded he follow safety laws. He yelled "I'm from the era of carbon-paper! I will not be lectured by a 30 year old! I am going to call the union now!" and ran out of the building crying, not to return. The conversation with the labour union ended up being that a certain amount of injuries maiming and death was acceptable to them because otherwise boomer would have to actually do his job. I confronted the union thug and insisted, union went to the director and threatened him with strikes, so my contract was ended the next month. That year they had a guy set himself on fire (preventable), break both his legs (preventable) and crash a van (illegal overloading) and they had a major derailing (faulty work as a result of not following procedure). That company recently had a preventable fatal accident on the 4th of april, by the way.

[@gundy74]

Pretty early on in the transatlantic slave trade, plantation owners figured out that it was more economically efficient to work sugar plantation slaves to death and import new ones than to work them less and permit them to live long lives. It wasn’t unlike a machinist using a tool knowing he’ll have to replace it before too long. Absolutely abhorrent.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@gundy74 Specifically the sugar plantations of Caribbean. Oh, and if they weren’t worked to death they’d probably die of disease.

[@kyleheins]

@N Velsen are you arguing that it is not abhorrent, or pointing out something about his wording of the statement? It sounds weird that you phrased your reply as though it were something the OP forgot to consider.

[@nvelsen1975]

@@kyleheins I'm pointing out that such attitudes are surprisingly and worryingly common. To me 'abhorrent' implies it's so weird nobody would or should do it, while it's everyday life. Which is a risk that we'll forget to stamp out such attitudes where we encounter them. Working conditions on US farms for migrants often resemble slavery. Barely being paid, which is then withheld for fictional 'costs of stay' and anyone who argues can be deported with just one phonecall. Over here it's no different, with the government struggling to even get migrant labourers decent housing. I've reported former clients because I encountered a guy on a matress on the ground, outside, underneath a lean-too next to a house with 7 others inside. That'll be € 200 a month please. Seems that after my visit, my ex-customer was mysteriously found out by the authorities and fined heavily. Hmm, curious how such unfortunate things happen to *rseholes. 😆

[@Bobbymaccys]

I met a confederate reenactor. And asked him what the hardest part of the hobby was. And he replied “meeting neo confederates”.

[@nigeh5326]

Same apparently with WW2 re-enactors who’s role is the German one. Plenty of Nazi fan boys around sadly who would rather wear the uniform of the SS LSAH than that of the British Royal Marines or the Parachute Regiment 😔

[@Lonovavir]

I've met Communists in Soviet reenacting and one neo-nazi in German reenacting. When they say crazy stuff they're not in character.

[@nate742]

@@Lonovavir Did you report such ramblings to their Regimental Commissar?

[@Lonovavir]

@Nate : He was the Colonel. So, I contacted a Finnish reenactor with a white camouflage snowsuit.

[@danielomar9712]

​@@nate742Do not worry tovarisch , he was sent to the Penal Battalion

[@eccod]

Those who justify slavery always envision themselves as the master. Would they willingly become a slave under the system they defend?

[@Promislandzion]

Lmao what? No one willingly becomes a slave your made one plus i’m not blck.

[@LykosShadowmane]

@@Promislandzion That sound is the point whizzing by you.

[@KatRose-0w0]

Yes. I'd willingly do so. Sounds hot

[@thatkingdomheartsguy9615]

​@zion.3879 there's absolutely no way your not trolling

[@intergalactictitanium]

​@@KatRose-0w0🔥🔥🔥✍

[@coffeemaiden7915]

Its weird to think about people getting mad because someone said that removing people’s freedom is a bad thing.

[@BrandonF]

REEEEEEEEE

[@warlordofbritannia]

“Slavery’s a bit cringe, my dude.” “THAT’S IT YANKEE, THIS MEANS WAR!”

[@Stand_watie]

Yeah genocide is a bit cringe to bad you yanks continued to do it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_units_of_Indian_Territory

[@Dap1ssmonk]

Outside of people being edgy for the sake of being edgy, there are a lot of people who have no real accomplishments, either truly, or by their own perception, and if they can’t climb above others to fulfill their need to be superior, they’ll drag people below them instead. “Yeah sure I’m white trash and work a 9-5 at Walmart every weekday, but at least I’m not one of those (insert slur here)”

[@gch8810]

@@warlordofbritannia Yes, because that is exactly why the South seceded and is a totally accurate understanding of the history of the U.S. prior to the Civil War.

[@fastenbauer]

The whole "But they were treated like family." argument really falls apart from the simple fact that they were still slaves. If you're family member was enslaved and you had the power to set them free you wouldn't hesitate to do so. Any person that kept an actual family member as a slave, we would consider the worst kind of person.

[@robertjarman3703]

That actually isn´t as weird as it sounds, a lot of families who were destitute did sell their children into slavery, or themselves. Although that isn´t quite what you had in mind.

[@billmelater6470]

@@robertjarman3703 Not to mention free blacks becoming "slave owners" themselves by buying members of their family. It's not a blanket cover for slavery naturally, but the topic isn't as "black and white" (pun not intended) as public school teaches.

[@brucetucker4847]

And yet, many manumitted American slaves elected to remain slaves rather than leave their homes and families as the law required them to do if they became free. In some times and places, even a majority. Better the devil you know. Life is rarely as simple as we often like to imagine.

[@ktheterkuceder6825]

Yeah family pets.

[@flyingmonkeydeathsquadronc968]

If you don't have the power to free them under the law due to slaves being financial elements of the estate unable to be separated from the estate without fiscal compensation and you don't have the power to protest the law due to the threat of lynching for threatening the status quo, what are you left with if you want to show some level of humanity to your slaves.

[@Dixiedingo_LBB]

Growing up a black kid in South Carolina, you couldn't get away from slave history. It's on display, constantly. So many monuments and memorials of dead and abused slaves. And i go online and I hear all these arguments about how slavery wasn't all that bad and you can't help but gape in awe. Like have they seen it all? The image of the slaves on the ship? The old houses they were kept in? The decrepid conditions? Have they heard the stories of the torture? Surely, no human would hear thay stuff and go, "ah, but it wasn't THAT bad."

[@tadferd4340]

Even worse is that a lot of those statues and monuments were put up after the civil rights movement, to intimidate black people.

[@KopperNeoman]

@tadferd4340 The first American slaveowner was himself Black. (Capitalisation intentional, it was very progressive at the time) Most slaves were black (small b) because Africans were selling most of them. Simple supply issues.

[@Dixiedingo_LBB]

@@KopperNeoman Hey, this is an extremely normal and good reply to someone trying to sympathize with someone else's pain they've felt living through a white supremacist society. Thank you user KopperNeoman, very cool.

[@freneticness6927]

It was a business. Everyones lives were horrible. I highly doubt you would have liked to be a midwesterner getting scalped by an indian either.

[@zero95lucky]

@@Dixiedingo_LBB Too bad youtube deleted the comment. Wait a minute. Was it actually a nice comment? Or were you being sarcastic? Just curious, forgive me if I pry.

[@rat-dactedinfo4069]

What horrifies me is growing up i was taught in school the notion of "if you broke your tools they won't work so slaves were treated great!" And it dawned on me that they were comparing living humans to objects and encouraging us kids that its okay to see people as objects if we are "nice" to them

[@blakestation2632]

Jesus, what school did you go to?!

[@livingdeadgirl5691]

​@@blakestation2632 I'm gonna guess; Florida?

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

While that argument is true, a free worker who gets paid well will do even better than a slave.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

@@HappyBeezerStudios There's evidence of masters beating slaves, covering slaves in lots of scars, and killing them. So that is not taking care of slaves. Some masters want to physically abuse and threaten them to make slaves afraid to escape, try to prevent revolt, and to push them to overwork actually.

[@mrjuicejunior]

​@@livingdeadgirl5691I live in Florida and I bet it's not, unless it's somewhere in Northwest FL. Imma bet it's Mississippi

[@ThePoeticPariah]

"Slavery... is bad" Some people: "How fucking dare you"

[@danielomar9712]

BUT MUH AFRICA SLAVERY WARLORD SLAVES WHATABOUT

[@theforcedmeme]

Slavery is a potent reminder that your rights exist at the absolute ability to defend them.

[@johnramos8703]

I think you are going too far, some slavers were nice to the property they owned and control

[@nikolozgilles]

bruh

[@theforcedmeme]

slavery is bullsh*t. imagine spending the resources to maintain the most inefficient form of labor

[@raging_n00b50]

The biggest evil of slavery I've observed was that it was hidden in plain site. Most slave owners weren't mustache twirling villians, they were average joes and majority of conditions were not overtly brutal. They even made laws for how to treat slaves properly, creating another reason to claim "it's not so bad." That's what made slavery so insidiously evil. A rational person, with a bit of logical gymnastics/bullshittery could justifying it. "Look they are moderately happy, and sure every once in awhile we beat the shit out of a couple of them, but it's not that bad." They would shrug and move on, which is majorly fucked up. Slavery was horribly evil because it possible to ignore how evil it was. The justification. "Therein lies the rot of civilized society." Well said Brandon.

[@adisappointedfbiagent449]

To people that were born and grew up in Confederate States you would not only be indoctrinated into these beliefs at a very young age but it became an everyday part of your life and culture. Despite how evil the nature of slavery is and other such ideologies and practices the amount of propaganda that went into it has, (and still does) change and question even the strongest of minds. The Confederates fell for the lie that was slavery, and paid a gruesome price for it.

[@allengordon6929]

This is the true evil of humanity. Not the evil men, but the good men who think the cruelty is the point.

[@huntclanhunt9697]

The only good slave owner, and I don't mean a good man despite also owning slaves, was Thomas Jefferson. He inherited them from his father, and was unable to free them without massive penalties from the state that would have ruined him, his children, and the slaves. So he set about making sure he helped them as best he could, paying them for their labor, paying for their education, and helping them even create their own businesses and letting them effectively rent their own land (since legally they weren't allowed to own land in Virginia). He remains the only good slave owner, bar none, and one of the greatest abolitionists in history

[@allengordon6929]

@@huntclanhunt9697 IRL naofumi a.k.a "They're basically freemen but the law won't let them cuz fuq u that's why"

[@aaronTGP_3756]

​@@huntclanhunt9697Even Jefferson doesn't count. As big of a Jefferson fan I am, he was no abolitionist. If he was, he would have freed his slaves as soon as he got them, and consistently and actively oppose slavery in politics. So Jefferson, in reality, was just anti-slavery. Morally against, but not an active opposer.

[@josephvarno5623]

It disturbs me that Brandon is getting push back about slavery being bad.

[@orionspero560]

It would disturb me if it were not so infuriatingly common.

[@arfyego0682]

@@orionspero560 That's what's so disturbing- it's so disturbingly common!

[@orionspero560]

@@arfyego0682 Disturbing requires disruption of understanding. It is infuriating and horrible but it is just too ordinary ( in the sense of the stalin quote) to actually be disturbing .

[@benjamintherogue2421]

I really don't think he is.

[@teddycooke8145]

I dont think really anybody does ... the only thing I can think he is referring to is equating the discussion put forth by people challenging Lincoln/Union in the US civil war, with defending the institution of slavery

[@door-chan]

"Unlike us, who are more civilized and intelligent, they are more prone to violence" "So that's why you beat them constantly?" "Yes"

[@andyblanton6570]

I mean I get the thought process there. See 13:25

[@trithos7308]

@@andyblanton6570 I don't, because I have morals.

[@Awesomeisme7000]

They literally fucking ate people the moment they were freed and got control in places like Haiti.

[@nanotech1921]

“These natives are savages, who dont know the basics of morality, they HAVE to be controlled” “Is that why you cut off their hands when they dont bring you enough gold?” “….yes”

[@nathanial8587]

@trithos I don't as well, because I have morals too

[@leslie62]

Let's not forget that many of the "good masters" would send their disobedient slaves to "slave breakers" who would break their wills for them in horrific fashion. See Frederick Douglass's account of such.

[@julietfischer5056]

Or sell them 'down the river' to Deep South plantations where the heat and brutal conditions killed them.

[@leslie62]

@@julietfischer5056 I read a good book about just that (amount other aspects of the slave marketplace) called Soul By Soul, really great book, definitely recommend

[@darkshadowrule2952]

Honestly I only learned about that last year, as an adult, and it's absolutely horrific that they didn't tell us about it in school

[@leslie62]

@@darkshadowrule2952 Yeah a lot of the details definitely get swept under the rug, unfortunately.

[@88porpoise]

Yep, plenty of slavers were nice and friendly to those who obeyed them. You see the same trend throughout history. Even in the most racist areas into he deep south, they always recognized the "good blacks" who stayed in the place in society the white supremacists allocated to them.

[@fredericksmith7942]

I love how neo confederates think that it’s even possible to “treat a slave well.” If you’re enslaving somebody, that’s inherently abusive. You cannot treat a slave well because keeping a human being as property is already one of the worst things you can do to a person.

[@Peter-jo6yu]

THIS

[@daveholland6293]

Or Hoteps defending AFrican slavery

[@louiscypher4186]

@@daveholland6293 Afro-slave apologists are generally worse the neo-confederates. Because at least the confederates don't argue that slavery should be brought back. I unfortunately i have had the displeasure of having to pull security at a speaking event where a man who called himself a "professor of black history" sincerely argued that Slavery in Africa was not only a good thing, But that it is an injustice to deny "decedents of Africa" their natural right to own slaves today. One idiot speaking wouldn't have been so bad, but it was the 300 or so people supporting him which did my head in.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Slavery as system is bad. There is no denying that. But there were differences in how slaves were treated and what rights they had throughout history. A "house slave" was generally treated better than a "farm slave", but that obviously also differs from slaver to slaver. If I were forced to be a slave, but could choose time and place, I would probably pick an urban location in early imperial Rome in an aristocratic household. Because at that place I could not only have the option to be freed, but even to buy my own freedom or inherit from the owner. European-American slavery is pretty much the opposite and amongst the worst, only surpassed in inhumanity by WWII forced labor camps.

[@Mayan_88694]

@@HappyBeezerStudios that doesn’t mean slavery isn’t atrocious, no matter if a system of slavery is “ less harsh “ than others, owning someone as property is inherently atrocious, despicable, inhumane and a violation of human rights.

[@warlordofbritannia]

“Slavery was good for the slaves and they were treated well?” “Ew, no. That’s crazy even for you!” “That’s true, I’m a cartoon character-not an idiot.”

[@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432]

It's fairly depressing to see people willing to sacrifice their human decency to defend a heinous institution which is clearly immoral.

[@warlordofbritannia]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432 Tbf, the reasons why people spout the Lost Cause is a different problem than the Lost Cause itself. It makes more sense to at least give those people a chance to learn accurate history than to dismiss them as lacking in human decency.

[@coh2conscript851]

@@warlordofbritannia half of the time people will just deny it or won't care despite the evidence.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@coh2conscript851 That’s why I mention *a* chance, not multiple ones 😂

[@henrikhans467]

"Do it again Uncle Billy!" I do love the coverage of the American Civil War by Atun-Shei. Some people coddle the neo-confederates while others want to drag them into the 21st century.

[@Smellbringer]

My best counter against these arguments for slavery is simple, "They are still people."

[@PossessedPotatoBird]

Hmm I think that’s too complex, your typical idiot racist wouldn’t understand basic English Something like “black is person” would probably get through their skulls easier

[@chadthompson3003]

​@@PossessedPotatoBirdthat's the thing they don't think that black folk are ppl, it makes it easier for them to justify slavery and all that bullshit

[@Awesomeisme7000]

People originating from where and doing what? 😂😂😂😂

[@Waashoe]

@@Awesomeisme7000?

[@milkwater1204]

@@Awesomeisme7000 nice bait, fisherman

[@FoNgThOnG]

I love the people that go "Well, this race and that race kept slaves too!" Like that makes slavery less bad lol

[@RiseOfAnarchism]

And even if this country or that country had slavery at any point in history it doesn't detract from the fact that chattle slavery, what the US had, was far more insidious than most other historical forms of slavery solely due to the fact that in it the slave was seen as on the level of or below that of an animal with absolutely no recourse to leave their condition. Hell even in the Barbary period, the period most of these racist dickheads point to because whites were enslaved, the slaves had a way to leave their condition.

[@Darqshadow]

Slavery is slavery. It's a bullshit system that is still, somehow, for some reason, not dead yet. Thanks China. (I know there's more but China has a very long list of minorities in work camps that needs to be addressed. Preferably with sanctions)

[@NolanWins]

For real, the reason we still talk about American Slavery is because it still effects people today

[@eiavops4576]

@@NolanWins 💀

[@alienalchemist]

Neo Nazis justifying genocide: But this ethnicity killed this ethnicity too why cannot do that?

[@legion999]

No one who says slavery was "good" or "not too bad", would volunteer to be a slave.

[@iamwonka]

They would try to justify why they shouldn’t be one.

[@juanandresrueda4957]

@@iamwonka This is actually what some philosophers from greece said on their time, aristotle argued that some people simple weren't able to rule themselves so it was the task of those who could, do it for them

[@iamwonka]

@@juanandresrueda4957 Yes, I am aware of that, but Aristotle was totally wrong on natural slavery.

[@juanandresrueda4957]

@@iamwonka yeah, I just wanted to point out that people saying there are "reasons" for oppressive systems to exist (and then put themselves on the high places) is really old and can get to smart people

[@Awesomeisme7000]

😂😂😂People already do volunteer to be a slave, it's called working on a wage.😂😂😂

[@Chimera6297]

my favorite argument is "the civil war was about state's rights!" because it's true. It was about state's rights... to own slaves

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

Keep paying those taxes. See who the slave is now.

[@BillytheCorgi]

​@@MrRAGE-md5rjyou're delusional if you think the Confederacy wouldn't have issued taxes, because it did. It was about the right to own slaves. Simple as.

[@Im-BAD-at-satire]

​​@@MrRAGE-md5rj The only slave in modern society is people in the prison population, slave labor is legal in these instances. It shouldn't really, and an incredibly high number of taxes is put into the prison revenue because the government incentives state prisons to make the prisons as profitable as possible through ethically horrendous means. But that's how it is in the current structure. Not every state is like South Carolina with their implementation of reparative justice and their 23% recidivism rate. But hey, slave labor and other inhumane prison tactics in most of the US pays hefty profits through tax dollars and a myriad of other means.

[@phoenixpipins2034]

@@MrRAGE-md5rj ah yes paying taxes the less preferable alternative to being whipped and forced to work hard in fields your whole life

[@darrowgreen6367]

"States' right to do what?"

[@robotcow28]

As a black man i actually got into a debate about the civil war with a white guy who told me "look if you have a horse you take care of it. Same with slaves, they were well fed and had structure" i laughed in his face and asked him if he was seriously comparing my ancestors to live stock. He stammered and panicked out of the conversation. A few hours later i got called into my bosses office because i made my coworker feel "unsafe". I explained our little debate and what he said and they reprimanded him. A month later he got fired for calling a coworker a racial slur 😂 who couldve guessed he was a racist.

[@connor3284]

Stories like this bewilder me because I can't understand why anyone would think it is a good idea to get into historical or political or philosophical debates with coworkers. I don't want to know or be friends or have any discussions with coworkers that aren't about the task at hand. I want to get my work done and get out with as little pain as possible.

[@TsarButterfly]

And then the whole office clapped

[@hotdogwater9580]

​@@TsarButterfly these situations are pretty common, the only way you havent seen this happen is if you live in a predominantly white area or very young

[@LykosShadowmane]

​@@hotdogwater9580Hell even being white you'll sometimes get people who just say the most hateful shit about a minority because they think you'll automatically agree with them. Casual racism is still very much alive and I can absolutely see the story above happening.

[@storm6661]

@@hotdogwater9580 Yeah, workplaces aren't great for minorities in my experience too

[@titansmirage]

As a Confederate reenactor, I want to say I really appreciate you covering this subject. As reenactors it's our (unpaid) job to tell the truth of our history, warts and all. I even butt heads with my own comrades that still lean on remnants of the Lost Cause teachings. Keep at it! I always look forward to your videos

[@prussia1557]

That's the reason I haven't gotten into re-enacting.

[@teddycooke8145]

I mean its been like 160 years with the same opinion being mostly prevelant in the south.. it hasn't changed because some people started calling "The Lost Cause teaching"

[@drivanradosivic1357]

boy, does Rageaholic have some words for the Civil War and Ol' Abe. not a Lost cause sort of thing, but a "this is what you did not know about that period" sort of thing.

[@brettb.3328]

@@drivanradosivic1357 His talking points are the same old lost cause arguments that have been made and debunked for the better part of a century, just repackaged for a modern audience, and no, him falsely saying, “Ooh tHe lOst CaUse Is A sTrAw MaN AugUmEnt!” Does not excuse him as a lost causer…

[@drivanradosivic1357]

@@brettb.3328 . . . . did we watch the same Razorfist video???

[@tamlandipper29]

I've not lived under slavery, but I did live for a time under apartheid, which isn't the same but the same people would enjoy it. My words fail me to describe how sordid, silly and brutal it was. Even if, which I do not for a moment believe, the victims could be induced to enjoy their position it would still corrupt the 'masters' with its total moral vacuum.

[@marianotorrespico2975]

GLAD YOU SURVIVED. | Maybe you know or maybe you do not know, but, the Murican fascist plaster idol, St.-Jesus Reagan, as U.S. president, worked very hard to keep the Afrikaner Apartheid government as an anti-Communist ally of the U.S., and continually sugar-coated their slave state as "not so bad".

[@MrTommygunz0482]

I was just speaking to someone today and I said that if anyone understands what it's truly like to be Black in America, it's South Africans, what your people went through was every racist white man's wet dream and I'm happy I was alive to see it fall. But we all got alot of work left to do.

[@terrified057t4]

Mhm, I had a gym teacher in highschool who was a South African Jew. Need I say more? Any time the fools did something stupid, he'd sit them down and recount how downright terrible Apartheid was...

[@marianotorrespico2975]

@@terrified057t4 -- YES. | Christers are like that; their ownership of the world is "a given".

[@alericjohansen6775]

You likely are living in a slavery time still, and some even realize it. The 13th amendment says that slavery can still exist, you just have to make sure that those you put in slavery are convicted of a crime. Funny enough, after that amendment passed, we got a LOT of laws that disproportionately affected blacks. And nowadays it's STILL legally allowed to use forced prisoner labor. Many states use prisoners to farm, fight fires, and do other things. Yeah.... Slavery still exists to this day in the US

[@SpoopySquid]

The people who pull out the "just a product of their time" argument infuriate me because it deliberately ignores the many, many resistance movements that existed at that time working towards combating slavery. Also you know who really knew how bad slavery was back then? The slaves

[@anon9469]

The idea that "slavery is bad" - at the total level, as in the entire institution is fundamentally evil - has existed since the 4th century in Europe. (Am unsure of how long it's been around in other regions, since I haven't really looked into them.) So that's *thirteen hundred years* of anti-slavery agitation. Also, by the time the Confederacy rose up, most of Europe had gone and abolished slavery. So at that point the rest of the world were acknowledging and getting on board with it.

[@greyfells2829]

Product of their environment is a better way to say it. Don't get me wrong, Sherman's March to the sea was awesome and the south had it coming, but societies don't change in one go. I can forgive southerners for being backwards barbarians by nature of their environment and culture, it's the people in the modern day espousing their ideology that are the problem.

[@nikkialkema1032]

@@greyfells2829 That's an explainotion no an excuse, but I do think that how the environment someone grew up in is important to consider when talking about the morals of historical people.

[@ericdpeerik3928]

They were products in such time, but our ancestors knew it was cruel. It was however very profitable and still today many corporations keep this energy abroad, mostly in Asia and Africa. Maybe they're restricted from slavery, but they sure like to make people's life impossible. Take examples like Shell in Nigeria, Halliburton in Indonesia, or Firestone in Liberia. Corporations are seldomly held responsible for their poor conduct abroad.

[@666Kaca]

Which resistance movements? You realize that slavery has existed since 3000bc, maybe earlier, right? Americans think they are the center of the world and the only country that had slavery. When slavery was practiced your country didnt even exist.

[@AnthonyBlamthony]

For the empty headed confederate sympathizers and apologists going “but that form of slavery was more brutal” that’s the same thing as saying “This guy doesn’t hit his girlfriend *NEARLY* as much as that guy.”

[@NatorGreen7000]

And what about the empty headed northern fan boys whose ancestors funded slavery? The south wasn't making cotton for the south.

[@adrianainespena5654]

Then other forms of slavery were less. In the Spanish Empire, for example, any black man or woman was supposed to be free, unless you could prove it was a slave, and the authorities looked upon slaves achieving freedom with approval. Freed slaves joined the general population and intermarried.

[@thunderspark1536]

@@adrianainespena5654 That sound is the point flying so far over your head it went into fucking space.

[@adrianainespena5654]

@@thunderspark1536 The point is that if you say that slavery was worse in other places, then you must admit that it was better in another ones.

[@thunderspark1536]

@@adrianainespena5654 Let me make it crystal clear to you: ENSLAVING PEOPLE IS BAD. Obviously some people had it better and some worse. BUT, they were still slaves. While I know you aren't making the claim that "this place had it worse so it excuses this other place", people DO use that argument. The poster was calling attention to how stupid such an idea is.

[@smithhickenlooper5477]

I never got the whole “you wouldn’t beat up your tools” argument. As a mechanic I beat the HELL out of my tools. The amount of times I’ve thrown an impact wrench or spiked a ratchet is innumerable

[@SilverAceOfSpades]

I joke about murdering my Nintendo Switch joycons for not working. Also, people aren't tools, which is the worst part of the "you wouldn't beat your tools" argument.

[@benjaminparent4115]

It's is almost as these people never worked a day in their a life, or more probably they never payed attention to the real world. I mean yeah sure a contractor that own their tool might not beat up their own tool, and then again you prove this life of thinking is wrong. But I can assure you that a minimum wage worker do not give a damn about scratching a forklift, or ruining the batterie by not following proper procedure. It is not their tool and they aren't payed enought to care anyway.

[@momentmoment-4]

All my homies hate impact wrenches 🤜🔧

[@420kleiner]

I think it's very funny that you're argument is kinda "yes actually I *would* beat my slaves*

[@raulthetorchic7324]

As a gamer, I've broken several innocent controllers over my own incompetence.

[@KarlPHorse]

"The stupidest argument about slavery." Is there really anything you can say in favor of enslaving thinking, feeling, human beings that isn't a load of horse shit?

[@anomonyous]

I guess in situations where you are attacked by a greater force and need to use POWs as labour to survive? That whole situation would be horrible either way. I don't know, the US government seems fine with it when it comes to inmate labour, perhaps they have an explanation that would suit you.

[@TheOnlyKingBee]

​@@anomonyous it's still a load of horseshit

[@iplaygames8090]

Vea Victis

[@ignasimontserrat]

If everything about it was bad, nobody would have ever done it. The benefits for the enslaver are obvious.

[@petriew2018]

@@anomonyous POWs and inmates still have legal protections and there's limits on what the government can and can't use them for. And if those limits are exceeded, the POW/inmate can get compensation from the government. None of this applies to a slave, who is literally property, not a human. making this arguing pretty idiotic, when you spend the slightest amount of time actually thinking about it. Because to make it one has to have no understanding of what slavery truly is.

[@Nikolapoleon]

I once saw a video of a docent at Whitney Plantation addressing the question of "Weren't slaves treated well?" that was simple, eloquent, and at least for me eye opening. He said something to the effect of: "You wouldn't justify a kidnapping by asking if the victim was treated well by their captor, would you?" In hindsight, this may be the most important argument one can make about slavery, because it reminds us that, whatever the conditions, slavery is still slavery, and the simple act of having one's own freedom taken away is itself an act of torture, and if we try to imagine what it would be like to have no control whatsoever over our own lives, [where we can go, what we can do, how we raise our children, etc.] altogether regardless of our material comforts, we can see why slavery is, by the very nature of being slavery, totally intolerable, irreconcilably evil, and inherently conducive to disobedience and rebellion.

[@Folkmjolk]

The whites in the south didn't do the kidnapping though. They bought them from merchants who in turn bought them from some African guy who is probably the guy that got them from the slavers. When you are not the one enslaving people it's a lot easier to justify morally. The slaves were already slaves when I bought them, they would be slaves even if i didn't pay for them. Also the alternative to us whites buying these slaves is them getting their cocks and balls cut off when they are sold to the Arabs. Many nations in Europe had serfdom and at the time of slavery there were absolute monarchs. The modern view that all people deserving freedom was not universal. Slavery is just a private citizen having a small piece of land where he can practice absolute despotism over people he purchased. The modern view of slavery being one of the worst things out there is because of the freedoms afforded to the citizens. When the average subject had a monarch and nobles above him he would see slavery as just a step down in the amount of freedom a person had. We have a population that gets mad about the covid lockdowns, of course slavery is going to be seen as the most heinous thing possible.

[@notNajimi]

Well said. The devil is not just in the details but in the whole of it, as even “well treated” enslaved people are still enslaved and denied agency

[@gurigura4457]

To play Advocate, it is important (if someone wants to actually understand the situation) to know that slavery was not as cruel as is often presented in the media/film etc. That many slave owners treated their slaves "well" - i.e. generally without overtly cruel treatment. That doesn't mean that slavery as an institution is any less evil; it gave owners the right to seperate & sell family members, gave a slave's descendents in perpetuity to the owner, as well as the enslavement itself. But it is important to know how slaves were actually treated, if nothing else so you can understand why slave owners could justify slavery to themselves. "I treat my slaves with respect" (respect like a dog, but better than beatings) and other justifications. Slaves could be kept in line with the carrot as well as the stick.

[@brucetucker4847]

To me it looks like confusing two different arguments. Brandon seems unable to decide whether he's arguing that slaves in the US never had better working and living conditions than some nominally free people (which they did) or that an improvement in working and living conditions could ever slavery morally acceptable (which it can't).

[@brucetucker4847]

@@gurigura4457 Beating, but also starving to death and/or turning people off their land to be beggars, which are things Brandon never likes to admit the colonial British he's so fond of were often very willing to do either deliberately or through gross neglect to the subjects they conquered and even to their own people. Slaves in the US were often treated better than Irish people in British-ruled Ireland. Certainly the mortality rate for the latter was orders of magnitude greater in the mid-19th century. That's less because slaveowners were nice people than because slaves were expensive while Irish tenants were easily replaceable for little or no cost. Which shows that his argument that economic factors never led to better conditions for slaves is, in fact, the stupid one.

[@witchy90210]

The people who say: "Why would they treat the slaves bad if they had value to them?" Are the same people who say: "Why would employer treat their employees poorly if we do the work for them? If we just work hard and take the abuse we will be treated better! It is how things have always have been and always will be!"

[@Deleted_Alt]

I actually would like that insurance video. I never even considered there ever being such a thing as slave insurance.

[@BrandonF]

I already have an article saved to read through to start the research!

[@alexhuynh1066]

I would love to read that article

[@GermanConquistador08]

Proof that the Insurance Industry has always been at least somewhat Evil.

[@BrandonF]

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-economic-history/article/abs/insuring-the-transatlantic-slave-trade/F1E2354A667CF7A4DB989838F37B2DC2 Sadly it has a paywall

[@robertjarman3703]

Also, it would have been possible for literal corporations to own slaves, and in principle, you could also use stock shares to own them as well (EG if you have 100 shares, then for every share you own you get to have that % of the profit generated by that slave and you would spend that % of the value of the slave to buy a share). You could also gamble with them as the betting pieces, loan them to someone else, rent them or hire them out to someone else, and quite a lot of other things. Slavery is a very strange thing to wrestle with in our history, and how it changed over time and place, like how in Rome, Greek slaves were often educated, literate, and were often teachers, accountants, or scribes, where those convicted of crimes might be sold to a mine, other persons might be oar rowers in triremes, POWs would usually be sold as slaves, Spartacus was a Thracian slave (that little bit of European area in Turkey), and so on.

[@abullmoose4854]

My favorite story is of a deeply in debt Ulysses Grant who was given a slave by his father in law on his wedding. Grant who by selling the slave could have made life changing money instead chose to free the man and help him start a business going deeper in debt. Truly a man

[@michellejames2447]

This is why when I hear the argument that we can't judge people from the past by modern standards I get so annoyed. There were obviously people back then who knew slavery was bad and chose to have nothing to do with it or to fight it, even at great personal cost. Slavery was outlawed in most of Europe before the African slave trade even started. People knew it was bad from the start.

[@rutherfordgamingofficial]

Ulysses Grant was such an awesome guy. He's easily one of my favorite presidents and historical figures.

[@angryhistoryguy5657]

​@@joepetto9488Sounds like bluster to me. He wouldn't need to house the guy if he'd sold him or rented him out.

[@rutherfordgamingofficial]

@@joepetto9488 Do you have a source on that? It's also possible that he just said that to avoid angering the south.

[@rutherfordgamingofficial]

@@joepetto9488 That "I never was an abolitionist" quote was from 1863 when he was more neutral on the issue. That very same essay you mentioned claims that his views changed during the civil war and he became very adamantly against slavery. Edit: The name of the essay is "I Never Was an Abolitionist" by Nicholas W. Sacco.

[@InquisitorThomas]

Me: Mom can we have Atun-Shei Mom: We have Atun-Shei at home. Atun-Shei at home:

[@warlordofbritannia]

Meanwhile Atun-Shei at grandma’s house: *Shelby Foote*

[@Captainkebbles1392]

@@warlordofbritannia I'm dead💀😭😂

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@Captainkebbles1392 Not as dead as the Confederacy though

[@CaptainFritz28]

@@warlordofbritannia “Not as dead as the Confederacy though” As a Texan, (and thus I must be a confederacy sympathizer): That’s a great reply.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@CaptainFritz28 Whenever Texas is in the news claiming to be considering secession, I have to keep myself from yelling “Do it again, Uncle Billy!”

[@thehobowizard]

Praising the slave masters for "treating their slaves well" just proves you still don't view the slaves as people.

[@Aceman52]

What strikes me as hilarious is that the arguments that these neo confederates make is that the words of the slave owners of this time disprove them.

[@cadekachelmeier7251]

People making pro-slavery arguments won't let pesky things like primary sources get in their way.

[@TheNightWatcher1385]

The thing is, it doesn’t matter even if some slaves here and there were treated, “well.” Holding someone in unwilling bondage is violence, no matter how benevolently you treat them otherwise.

[@yingyang1008]

Nobody disagrees with you - literally nobody

[@TheNightWatcher1385]

@@yingyang1008 You’d be surprised.

[@johnramos8703]

@@yingyang1008 many people are disagreeing in this very comment section, a few are even saying that slavery was right based on fringe statistics about race that were litterally made by nazi researchers. I understand you want to believe people are better than that but it is demonstrably false if you read a few threads here

[@yingyang1008]

@@johnramos8703 No one is saying slavery is good or that we should reintroduce it So stop lying

[@OutbackCatgirl]

@@yingyang1008 I've literally seen people unironically saying exactly that. I'm sorry to shatter your faith in humanity, but there genuinely are people out in the world - I've even met a few, and it was horrible - that believe some people are subhuman and should be slaves. I wish i was lying. I wish i could tell you that people are better than that. White supremacists and pro slavery nutjobs are very much real, as much as we all desperately want them not to be.

[@lukebeich]

I'd imagine that anyone who argues in favor of slavery nowadays would never consider becoming a slave themselves. Pretty convenient.

[@yingyang1008]

But no one argues in favor of slavery - literally no one

[@richard-fish-monger]

@@yingyang1008 you're kinda blind or haven't been on the internet long enough. There's tons arguing basically in favor for it

[@Promislandzion]

You don’t consider becoming a slave your made one lol.

[@richard-fish-monger]

@@Promislandzion considering being one meaning, thinking what it actually meant to be a slave. Your kinda dumb for not getting that

[@PandaIC]

@@PromislandzionI’ve seen your comment across multiple comments just say your racist and move on

[@EmanuelRosstorp]

"If the slavers are so sure that God is on their side then why do they get angry when I send them to him?" -John Brown

[@major_kukri2430]

Based

[@dankengine5304]

An argument I heard that slavers and southerners made was that “If God thought slavery was bad, why doesn’t he get rid of it?” Which is funny coming from such a Christians during a time when Religion still HEAVILY influenced people’s lives. God gave mankind free will. Mankind created slavery. God did not allow it to happen but it is not his responsibility to get rid of it. Lincoln said that the Civil War was punishment by God for the sin of slavery.

[@justaghostinthesea]

God bless John Brown, and that's coming from an atheist

[@EricNapoli-z3d]

All the Abrahamic religions explicitly outline rules for the treatment of slaves, and thus implicitly condone the action itself. Of course, I'm not religious, so I'm not bound by this. Also, John Brown was a sociopathic freak who thought he was a prophet. Good riddance.

[@panqueque445]

If your immediate response to "Is slavery bad?" isn't "Yes", you're wrong. Simply wrong.

[@osheridan]

I'm truly tired of the "Europe abolished it so it wasn't really evil!" Or "there were worse things" argument. Slavery was horrible, no buts

[@panqueque445]

@@osheridan "There were worse things" is such a brain dead argument for literally anything. Hey, you shouldn't complain you got robbed, there are worse things.

[@flyingmonkeydeathsquadronc968]

The problem is this way of thinking is very, very new within the history of the human race and it's still not universal (note global elitist sex trafficking, the middle east, and parts of Africa that still engage in the slave trade). Hell the idea that a free society require that those right fundamental to free individual must be protected, that basic principle on which the United State was founded on is still very much so foreign to most nations and collage campuses.

[@moth5799]

@@flyingmonkeydeathsquadronc968 It's not a new way of thinking. Greeks, Romans, Persians and the Chinese all had ideas of personal liberty. They weren't always enshrined in government (they were in Rome though, look up the twelve tables) but they were still popular ideas. It's true that the US was founded on the Graeco-Roman tradition of freedom and liberty. Sadly people from both parties (including every president in the last 20 years) have been trying to change that narrative and implement Jewish law instead.

[@yeslol9303]

@@moth5799ok and we’re getting anti semitic now

[@Rrextrex]

Hearing all these excuses is like a throwback to my US history class in 8th grade lmao, Texas public education really did a number on a lot of us 💀

[@blizyon30fps86]

Exactly, one thing you have to understand is, neo confederates are speaking out their own mouth, they’re speaking about what they will do if they owned slaves, they’re projecting. They’re not talking about what actually happened in slavery

[@NatorGreen7000]

@blizyon30fps86 If there are neo confederates there must also be neo unionists who go out of there way to offend people by making the north out to be nothing but the good guys and calling the south as good as nazis.

[@SuperHGB]

Ah Texas, land of inverse Massachusetts

[@Patryk128pl]

That explains why awful american corporations call their workforce a “family".

[@michalsoukup1021]

Japanese companies do it too, but I think in their case it is somewhat more honest, because of how Japan society works

[@doctormantistoboggan2339]

It's so they appear more human and relatable in hopes you forget they're a soulless, faceless corporation

[@Freedmoon44]

@@michalsoukup1021 i mean Japanese work culture essentially means you may spend more time working than with familly, so calling their workforce "familly" isnt totally wrong as they are arguably more present in your life than the real familly

[@michalsoukup1021]

@@Freedmoon44 and also the japanese companies actually care for thier employers a lot more than the us one. They are NOT ideal, but they are a lot better

[@takebacktheholyland9306]

@@michalsoukup1021 *proceeds to work you to death* Although having no first hand experience on either, I'd rather choose the american ones than the japanese... Many demographic issues faced by the japanese stem directly from their work ethic and none of their companies are doing anything about it. Most especially "Karoshi" That's arguably the most messed up part of it all. It means, "death by overwork" which might seem little, but for it to become a term meant that it's become a phenomenon...

[@UltraCenterHQ]

The fact that saying slavery is a bad thing even debated is just sad

[@faithalone5081]

No its not slavery>prison

[@UltraCenterHQ]

@@faithalone5081 dude really just forgot about racists. That's crazy

[@faithalone5081]

@@UltraCenterHQ because i dont agree with race related slavery only slavery in place of prison

[@dhans9662]

​@@faithalone5081 all slavery is bad. Prison slavery is an incentive for persecution.

[@PedroHenrique-ox9zx]

@@faithalone5081 um what the actual fuck

[@rotwang2000]

I read an account of a man who inherited some land and slaves. He wasn't fond of slavery, but he wasn't an abolitionist either but he tried to give his slaves decent conditions. He found out that the more he tried to accommodate them, the more rebellious they became, to the point, that he relented and hired people to "manage them" They were very brutal in restoring order and after a few years he grew tired of the whole business and sold everything. His conclusion was that it was a horrible affair that set people against each other. Slavery invited rebellion and rebellion invited retribution, which created more resentment ...

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

Sounds like it'd make a fine documentary. Did you ever get his name?

[@robertjarman3703]

Manumission laws changed over time and place. What were the things that induced this guy to not free his own slaves at least?

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

​@@robertjarman3703 Some places like North Carolina makes it illegal to free slaves, period...

[@billyyank2198]

Where can I find that account? Sounds like a very instructive story.

[@bjmccann1]

This story smacks of, "I don't beat my slaves (so much), and I give them an extra ration of pork fat on Sunday, and those ungrateful bastards the gall to want to be treated like actual human beings."

[@samuelazzaro]

Honestly, I think the funniest thing about pro-slavery arguments is that, fundamentally, slavery in every form has always been fundamentally justified by one mentality. It is ok b/c they are an other. They are a different race, religion, class, etc. You will never fundamentally hear someone argue that the enslavement of their own specific group of people is a good thing, b/c then its not an other you can dehumanize as easily.

[@penultimateh766]

No modern person OTHER than anonymous internet trolls has ever said slavery is OK. This is a straw man used to attack conservative people.

[@Folkmjolk]

The only people that were pro-slavery were a couple of crazy southerns and the Africans states that did the enslaving. Most people were anti-abolition, arguing that abolishing slavery would be a disaster.

[@JABN97]

@@penultimateh766 mate, here a small piece of advice for you: when you see someone being attacked for saying that slavery is okay, and your first instinct is "this is a stawmen being used to attack my political orientation", maybe it's time for some deep self-reflection. Because what you effectively just said is that YOU believe that the general public believes pro-slavery attitudes are close enough to your political orientation that they will associate that special kind of idiotic evil with your political views. And if your views are close enough that, by your own admission, the general public associates pro-slavery with your politics, maybe your political views need to be re-examined. just a though. as an aside, anyone who is pro-slavery can not be conservative, nor can anyone who is pro-segregation be conservative. Because by definition, 'conservative' means 'to preserve what is'. Instead, those kind of believes are best described as regressive aka 'wanting to regress, go back, become less'.

[@brucetucker4847]

That's true of the modern institution but wasn't true in the ancient world. Many if not most slaves in ancient Greece were debt-slaves. The Romans generally didn't enslave their own citizens, but they didn't shy away from enslaving even other Italians.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@JABN97 Who here has been attacked for saying slavery is okay? Who here has said it's okay? All I see is someone attacking a straw man and the reply saying it's attacking a straw man.

[@martrex2]

The fact that some people would even slightly entertain the idea that slave labor is justifiable tells me that we're entering a new dark age.

[@greyfells2829]

It's always been this way, it's just social media making it seem like people are getting worse. Spend some time in the comments section of news from India or Africa and you'll see that it's even worse outside the confines of western culture. Humans are scum by nature. It takes a great deal of effort and social conditioning to elevate humans from base nature, and as we see, even in the west many people choose to willingly ignore these lessons.

[@julietfischer5056]

Or they don't understand what it means.

[@MayorofHopeville]

They've been around, it's not new. Reconstruction didn't go far enough

[@scheikundeiscool4086]

Sadly it;s a fact of life that we humans are just victims to the social dynamics. And that by our nature of sentiance are aware of those dynamics. Ensuring that we feel the need to rationilise those dynamics. Leading to the sad state of afairs that ppl feel the need to make up a rationalisation for inrational social dynamics.

[@surprisedchar2458]

Anybody gonna tell him that slavery is still rampant across the world? Point being that a lot of people will do this. And if slavery is the measure of a dark age, we have yet to ever leave one.

[@fried_miso_soup]

The problem isn't that they're treating their tools improperly. It's the fact that they're treating human beings like tools

[@DerrickSeaborne-d2j]

Correct

[@Mr_Chunk]

I love that most of the negative comments are just people saying “Shut up lil bro”. Like they cannot fathom an actual argument or reason to justify their viewpoint.

[@OtakuJuanma2]

We've reached a point in history where slavery isn't unanimously seen as a bad thing... I'm so unbelievably concerned for humanity, especially USAmericans.

[@yingyang1008]

Who believes slavery is a good thing - list some names

[@OtakuJuanma2]

@@yingyang1008 You just watched a whole video regarding people in the comment section of a poll. I saw them, but I didn't take notes of their usernames.

[@yingyang1008]

@@OtakuJuanma2 None of them argued that slavery is good or should be reintroduced Literally no one believes that

[@OtakuJuanma2]

@@yingyang1008 I never said reintroduced. They argued "slavery was fine actually" (direct quote)

[@zandaroos553]

Reached? Baby I’m a black Jamaican-American. If you watch isekai animes they treat slavery as minor inconveniences half the time. There British people who still talked about how the colonization of Jamaica & Africa overall “benefitted” their societies. People would fly Confederate flags all the time in my hometown. Not to mention all the paramilitary-led neoslavery in the Sahel and Congo, sex slavery world wide and normalization of state-neoslavery in the Arab Gulf States. This disgusting part of humanity has always been there. It’s no stronger today than any other time in history. The internet simply makes it more public.

[@Callie_Cosmo]

“Most people at the time voted to keep slavery… except the slaves, they weren’t allowed to vote”

[@RadioStar_Music]

States rights to do what?! -Doobus Goobus

[@LandonDoesThings88]

Get douglassed

[@kurtberliner7049]

I am fairly big into like the history of the 1800s till right about the end of the Cold War. It is insane how many people refuse to touch on certain topics to instead just focus on “muh cool uniforms, coulda won”. Like, so many of these wars and conflicts throughout history are not limited to the battlefield. History isn’t only about war, but sadly people tend to forget that

[@Tarnatos14]

A german historian (not an academic one though) once said: History is a t least as much about peace, as about war and to explore the ways of piece and how its conducted is at least as interesting and valubale as to do with wars. (Sebastian Haffner)

[@danielomar9712]

You gotta admit Rebel barefoot is pretty intriguing

[@bjmccann1]

Why abuse your own slaves? As Voltaire famously said [in reference to executing soldiers and sailors] "pour encourager les autres" (literally, to encourage the others). Slaves were PUBLICLY punished, not just punish that slave, but to let the others know what could, and would, happen to them if they displeased the master, his agents, or the public at large.

[@rosesweetcharlotte]

I'm also pretty sure it was a weird fetish thing

[@paisleepunk]

​@@rosesweetcharlotte depends on the master

[@gozer87]

Oddly or sadly enough, I was one of those "slavery always existed, almost all cultures engaged in it, don't blame the enslavers". Then I watched Amistad, specifically the Middle Passage scenes, and realized what a brutal inhuman inexcusable act it is to enslave a fellow human being.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

Just because everyone does it doesn't mean its inherently good morally, in Medieval times Sacking was a really common practice to Cities that didn't surrender for example, yeah the system was common and regularly used to maintain the State but that doesn't mean by Principle that makes the acts good themselves, especially to the later periods of Industrialization. While I prefer to measure people in history based on their Contemporaries, that doesn't mean it excuses the faults of the Period.

[@rnp497]

admission of a previous stance that was 'simplistic' shows courage. Way to many with a public forum would do well to learn from your example.

[@Dave0G]

It is all too easy to step from "it wasn't uniquely evil" to "thus it can be disregarded", losing the evil part in the transition.

[@brucetucker4847]

Your first two clauses aren't negated by your last. if we're going to have an intelligent discussion of slavery, it has to address the question is why so very many societies over so many millennia found it acceptable and even virtuous. And why that changed. Although it should be noted that while slavery was very widespread in history it was by no means universal, and it could take very different forms and involve different levels of cruelty. Of course, it could be found de facto where it was not recognized de jure. The Belgians never had a _legal_ institution of slavery in the Congo, but their methods of extracting labor from the colonized population were far more horrific than anything ever seen in North America.

[@nigeh5326]

@@brucetucker4847thanks for mentioning Belgium in the Congo. It doesn’t get talked about enough how horrific it was

[@herculesatan4514]

The mental gymnastics needed to prove slavery is bad is, essentially, walking in a straight line.

[@helwrecht1637]

Let it always bee remembered that John Wesley, founder of Methodism, lived through the entire 1700s and thought all that crap about black’s being inferior was stupid

[@greenmountainhistory7335]

As a Methodist I agree, the first hundred or so years of our denomination’s history is wonderful. We eventually made a (in hindsight) huge mistake in advocating prohibition. On the bright side Welch’s came out of it.

[@Ukraineaissance2014]

Got a lot of respect for methodists, my grandparents were methodist socialists, at first they came across as very reserved, mild people but it was suprisingly how radical their ideas were. In this part of North england they had a huge impact. Taking the pledge or taking the ribbon were still things when i was young (the 90s))

[@Burgerzaza]

Yeah as a gay man who was raised Methodist in Oklahoma, they're the only denomination I've encountered where the adherents can be consistently relied on to be good people and Christians.

[@ivannegrozny5388]

Have you ever encountered any serious studies regarding IQ differences between groups? Or regarding genetic influence on aggressive behaviour?

[@keirangrant1607]

There were a lot of white people who knew this, but would be called traitors and worse for trying to be humane

[@evanbarth7173]

Imagine almost about 200 years later and some people still are debating whether or not slavery was bad…🤦‍♂️

[@ChrisAastrup]

That is truly baffling, especially since slave sociteties are/were usually much poorer.

[@mr.ocelotguy8995]

worst part is that slavery remains in practice in many parts of the world

[@wesleysor8216]

In some different ways

[@BryanSchilligo]

I've been a fan for a while, but this is one of the best videos you've ever produced. It's important not to ignore these topics in "histori-tainment" circles and your refusal to hedge or concede ground in an attempt to appease "certain segments" of your audience was admirable and cathartic.

[@captaincruise8796]

It’s difficult to understand how calling slavery wrong could be controversial.

[@Matt-dn5jc]

I was not aware that slavery apologia was still popular.

[@jacobcrowder2600]

​@Matt-dn5jc this comment section is so eye opening. Person A: "I'm not defending slavery guys, I promise" Person B: "So you agree, slavery was and IS evil, right? Say that slavery is bad." Person A: "You can't tell me what I believe! Not all slaves were treated badly and honestly it could have been worse for them anyway! don't take away my state's rights!!!!!!"

[@PaintTheWorld911]

It’s worse than that, some people were just saying that they want that stuff back full stop.

[@adamprice3466]

For the vast majority of human history you would be in trouble for saying that. It's only very recently that slavery has been regarding as an unforgivable sin. We live in a time where it's incredibly easy and risk free to promote anti-slavery idelogy.

[@PaintTheWorld911]

@@adamprice3466 good?

[@ravingidiot]

As a Southerner, I think that this sort of reality check is sorely needed. I've had people try to whitewash the horror that was chattel slavery by saying, "We did the same thing to the Irish!". Even if it were true (as you've said, at least indentured servants had some rights and perpetual bondage didn't have the backing of the legal system), it should underscore the very problem with bonded labor in the first place, not cause us to excuse it. As someone whose family immigrated from Ulster, I find it utterly absurd that anybody would bother to make the comparison because (at best) it diminishes both the struggle of Irish people of that time and the struggle of Black Americans.

[@obi-wankenobi1233]

This, to me, seems to be another moronic argument. It would be like a rapist trying to justify his crimes by saying 'I also did it to THIS person!' Arguing that you committed the same crime towards another person, or group of persons, doesn't excuse or justify it, or reduce its severity. It only makes it worse.

[@aguilarraliuga1777]

Why the obsession with blacks? I’ll never understand Americans

[@ravingidiot]

@@obi-wankenobi1233 Yeah, it's a bizarre argument to say the least, and it's hard to be charitable to anybody seriously promulgating it. I suppose it's entirely possible (probably likely, come to think of it) that some people accept it at face value and haven't given any thought to what it must entail, but as you point out, it doesn't take much to arrive to at least one of the several problems with it. It's obvious why Lost Cause apologists use it: it's easy to maneuver somebody into thinking that they've behaved hypocritically (again, as you point out, that need not be the case). I'm not sure to what degree this is taught elsewhere in the US, but I remember the idea that indentured servitude being a common mode of funding immigration coming up in my history classes, so I think conflating the two is meant to imply that indentured servitude was as bad as chattel slavery (it wasn't, even though I think most people can agree that it should be forbidden) or (even worse) that chattel slavery can't be that bad because we allowed indentured servitude. Just a little reasoning would solve that problem, but I think the insidious part of this is that it plays on the fact that Irish immigrants were historically the subject of a great deal of discrimination, and to get over that hurdle, it means accepting that some of your ancestors' contemporaries had it even worse than them. There are so many Irish Americans that it's difficult to predict how any one of them might process that thought. I would like to think that heritage is more likely than not to engender empathy, but it's also inspired contempt since before the Civil War even began. So yeah, I can see why one might not want to think about it.

[@anon9469]

When I was looking through the comments, one making literally this argument was three comments above yours.

[@ChrisKelly-t6t]

“But the confederacy wanted to protect states rights that that federal government was taking away!” “Oh yeah? What right was the federal government trying to take away?” They get really quiet when you ask them that.

[@hngh6404]

It’s excellent that you’re covering this topic. In military history, especially in the fields of WWII and the Civil War, it’s so easy for things like slavery or the Holocaust to be forgotten in favour of guns, tanks and explosions so it’s great to see when people talk about the reasons these wars were fought Keep up the amazing work

[@BrandonF]

I even had one commenter basically say to me "Brandon nobody wants to see this- talk about military stuff instead" and it kind of convinced me that I ought to make more videos like this.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@BrandonF War is the continuation of politics by more violent means, the whole of military history is just a particular side of political history

[@jamesharding3459]

@@warlordofbritannia Not all of Clausewitz's dictums aged well, but he hit gold with that one.

[@warlordofbritannia]

⁠@@jamesharding3459 That is because the maxim is especially true as regards modern warfare between nation-states, which is what Clausewitz observed first hand. It’s less an accurate prediction than a statement on reality, and thus retains its truth beyond the age of muzzle-loading muskets. It should be noted, however, that one can find examples of war as a different societal phenomenon, largely removed from politics outside of the post-Enlightenment age.

[@C0NSTANTINUS]

WW2 and the Civil War , WW2 was to stop nazi germany and save poland and end japanese expansion. The Civil war was about preserving the nation , most union soldiers only fought to preserve the nation.

[@mr.pavone9719]

Them. "slavery wasn't so bad..." Me: "Oh yeah? Sell me one of your children."

[@youngimperialistmkii]

Excellent work. The fact that each and every time an educational youtuber seeks to examine this history. The "peanut gallery" of usual suspects come out of the woodwork with their objections. Goes to, as you said yourself. To prove the necessity of talking about this history. Keep it up.👍🏾

[@ferrik1675]

Teaching and discussing history will simply never become unnecessary. Humanity can only learn by the lessons of their fathers and forefathers (and mothers and foremothers), and the time between the United States’s slavery times, transitionary times, to now, is large to us, but in the great history of the world, is rather minuscule. It is ESPECIALLY important, vital even, that a nation as young as the U.S. MUST remind itself of its history not on the yearly, monthly, or even weekly, but daily. We have existed far shorter than most other powers of the globe, and just like the youths of animals and people, we will continue to thrash and throw our power around until it bites us in the rear and harshly teaches us more lessons. The difference between this being a sad process, or a good one, is entirely dependent on just how willing our public and government (BOTH EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO EQUALLY PUT FORTH EFFORT) are to accept these lessons.

[@stamfordly6463]

Well said. Particularly the point about consent... I used to rage against people who praised the "Spartacus" TV series that was on a few years ago on the grounds that it was basically nothing more than artfully lit rape fantasy and the idea of it turned my stomach. Cicero's point about the routine torturing of all slaves giving evidence and how they would say whatever they thought you wanted, crystallised the horror of it a very long time ago.

[@warlordofbritannia]

I still can’t believe that was treated like a prestigious show, for the longest time I thought it was just “Game of Thrones nude scenes the show” Turns out it actually preceded GoT by a year. Go figure

[@brucetucker4847]

Everyone wants to pretend that Roman slavery was somehow kinder and gentler, because the tiny minority of beloved house servants tended to be treated relatively well and were often loyal to their masters, and those are the only voices of enslaved people that have been preserved in literature (which was, of course, written by the masters). Of course the same was true in the antebellum south. HBO's Rome gave a much more accurate picture of Roman slavery, even if it did still focus mostly on the privileged urban personal servants.

[@rosesweetcharlotte]

​@@brucetucker4847 I think it is more that Roman slaves had a small legal pathway to freedom. The problem is that this pathway wasn't really available to all slaves and it completely ignores the absolute horrors many slaves were legally subjected to. And it ignores that there were often different classes of slaves.

[@HellbirdIV]

The problem with this whole argument is that it's comparing slavery to a hypothetical worse slavery, not to being free. It's not a defense of slavery, it's a deflection.

[@yingyang1008]

But no one is defending slavery What is wrong with you?

[@lordedmundblackadder9321]

@@yingyang1008 At least half of the comments on this video are defending slavery. Sort by new and see for yourself.

[@yingyang1008]

@@lordedmundblackadder9321 Do you understand what 'defending slavery' means? There's not a single comment saying slavery is a good thing

[@deandrefrench7660]

​@@yingyang1008 people who think there is nothing wrong with slavery cant say exactly that or else they would be crucified. So they have to say something like 'it was bad, but it wasn't that bad.'

[@johnramos8703]

@@yingyang1008 that is very small minded

[@LuigiGodzillaGirl]

Any argument that essentially equates a human being with an inanimate object, pet, livestock animal, or beast of burden is sickening!

[@BurntCookiesYT]

What separates those animals from "human beings"? They're less human? Perhaps how they look? Or maybe it's intelligence? None of these were used to justify (human) slavery...🥲

[@walterreeves3679]

Great video. Having grown up in the latter days of the Jim Crow south I heard all of these apologias for slavery in one form or another, at one time or another, throughout my childhood and adolescence. None of them can get away from the central reality: there is no such thing as humane slavery.

[@walterreeves3679]

@@habibishapur I'm observant enough to recognize that racism is a moronic crutch for people who spend their lives desperately seeking some reason to feel superior to others despite all evidence to the contrary.

[@austrianking6052]

@@habibishapur cope harder april 9er

[@johnramos8703]

@@habibishapur garbage proving once again why a video like this is important

[@godsdj7316]

@@habibishapur "How they behave now"? Buddy, I have black American friends who have never even committed a crime or argued with someone in public, let alone "behaved" in any bad fashion. One of them is working three jobs to stay afloat right now, and despises how politically polarising some of his friends are. Stereotyping an entire race is stupid, especially when doing so ignores so much economic history.

[@godsdj7316]

@@habibishapur If you see someone refer to white people as "they" to state that black supremacists have a point, are you going to expect people to take such an argument as "per capita", or to view such an argument as referring to the majority or the entirety of a race's population within a nation's boundaries?

[@hadookin47]

"It was about state's rights!" "State's right to do what?"

[@The-Chair516]

One time, when I was at Gettysburg, I was touring the battlefield. I was also wearing a Union infantry hat (picked it up at a local store). Then, as I was just walking, I passed a woman who complimented me on my hat. I said “Thanks” Then, she said “Wrong color, though” I just kept walking. I would have said something, but I didn’t want to cause a scene, and just wanted to enjoy seeing the battlefield.

[@BrandonF]

"Haha, nah" is usually a good reply I find. Casual dismissal to indicate your different worldview, but also not making yourself out to be the "evil other" that their media etc. might try to make you out to be. But getting into an argument/having a heated convo is really just going to feed their fire, I think.

[@The-Chair516]

@@BrandonF Yeah. I was there with my parents at the time (I was much younger), and we were there for my birthday. Plus, my stomach was a bit off that day. But if I ever get into a situation like that again, I would definitely say something like that before walking off

[@The-Chair516]

@@BrandonF Also, great vid

[@BrandonF]

@@The-Chair516 Thanks!

[@nightcoreeclub]

a quick, “I disagree!” is a good response. simple.

[@Talleyhoooo]

I really appreciate you approaching this subject with earnest conviction, while not tiptoeing around the discourse to appeal to contrarians. It takes a lot of bravery to discuss this topic the way that you have, and it means a lot.

[@BrandonF]

That is very generous of you, thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I agree it is an important kind of one to make. I am thinking of doing another one in the 'series' soonish.

[@kid14346]

"The comments aren't real life" is the best thing ever. I need to remember that.

[@moosepocalypse6500]

For this argument, a quote from the Disney film Return of Jafar comes to mind... "you'd be surprised what you can live through" in reference to Jafar being unable to kill them. This I think applies to this situation as well. The argument that a master won't risk their "investment" seems to imply that a master has to kill or cripple their slave in order to abuse them. However, as we know, it is possible to inflict great agony and misery on a person without killing or crippling them. Thus a master could inflict great suffering on slaves without putting their "investment" at much risk. I think slavery is an absolutely abhorrent act, regardless of how the victims are treated, and am shocked that so many would be offended by the idea that slavery is bad. People are shockingly stupid and awful sometimes 😒

[@modernmajorgeneral4669]

“Return of Jafar”, the modern Shakespeare

[@Ericisnotachannel]

Thanks! A topic that needs more discussion, as a Florida man, I'm still ashamed of the confederate sympathies I used to have before seriously studying history.

[@BrandonF]

That is very generous of you, thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video and that you've grown as an historian! We all have cringe views from yesteryear, after all.

[@Folkmjolk]

Nobody supports the south because they had slavery. It's ridiculous that you believe hundreds of thousands would go to war because they wanted to practice slavery. The war was not about slavery, it was about the south not wanting to be a part of the union and Lincoln not allowing them to secede.

[@KopperNeoman]

Lincoln being a tyrant doesn't mean that the CSA were heroes, after all. The real emancipationist heroes were the British, anyway.

[@Scarfy397]

I'm a Civil War reenactor. Used to do exclusively rebel infantry but now do both Federal and Confederate when I can. Remember a couple years ago getting into a very heated discussion with a spectator about slavery's role in starting the war. He was pretty insistent on the "good masters" and "actually it was tariffs" shit. That's definitely one of the more frustrating aspects of the hobby, meeting people who have no desire to educate themselves on the period or to hear the people who do know about it tell them something they disagree with.

[@noodles24601]

Something people tend to gloss over with Sally Hemings in particular is that she was 14 when Thomas Jefferson first assaulted her. He was 44. Obviously it's bad either way but it really adds to how disgusting the situation was and too many people are way too quick to just gloss over the fact he raped a child. Understanding his contributions to history is one thing, and is important, but he was a human being with some very very serious flaws, not some sort of member of an American pantheon everyone needs to worship.

[@oldhunternadir4194]

There’s no proof that ever happened.

[@diontes1480]

​@@oldhunternadir4194we're gonna gloss over the fact that he had a confirmed 600 slaves of which he freed in total of 7 in his life?

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

You gonna tear down the Washington monument, next?

[@ineednochannelyoutube2651]

@@MrRAGE-md5rj there is a very sharp line between recognizing the evils some people we worship today committed and wanting to tear down a monument to them. Jefferson and Washington both set very important precedents regarding our constitution and democracy, ironically making the abolition of the very evils they practiced possible. We should tear down the monuments to the confederacy though. They had no redeeming features.

[@ebluegamer5397]

​@@ineednochannelyoutube2651 as Doobus Goobus put it, the Confederacy lasted for less time than Annoying Orange and were just a bunch of traitors that took a deserved L. "State's rights to do *what?*"

[@thecheck968]

Thank you so much for this video. Almost a decade later and I still remember clear as day, my classmate telling me slavery wasn't that bad because most slave owners were actually pretty nice to their slaves. I was in so much disbelief to even respond and this video makes me feel sane again. Also the fact that a number of slave owners legally owned and enslaved their own children (conceived via rape) is absolutely vial and I don't know how anyone cannot denounce a system that protects something so reprehensible

[@tonyreyes3780]

The South needs to just take the damn L and move on.

[@Clocks1997]

Not the south but the racists

[@tristan8435]

@@Clocks1997they’re the same thing

[@Garrettmoron]

The south? That’s a very diminutive part of the transatlantic slave trade; most of the slaves went to Brazil. The Barbary slave trade lasted much longer and enslaved far more Africans than the transatlantic. Slavery was all over the world and Britain was the first country to officially outlaw slavery.

[@tonyreyes3780]

@@Garrettmoron southern conservatives are probably the only humans left who try to dress up their participation in the slave trade. Everyone else admits being on the wrong side of history and moving on.

[@astralbody13]

Friendly reminder that fortnite outlived the confederacy

[@fractal-dreamz]

Ghostbuster’s Cereal lasted longer, for God’s sake lmao

[@CalciumEnjoyer]

My edgy phase lasted longer than the confederacy☠️

[@ihhaahhhhhaaa]

The Doritos Locos Taco also outlived the confederacy

[@commandercorl1544]

"Slavery is bad." Is where people should stop. Where it becomes an issue, is when someone says "Slavery is bad, but-" There are no "but"s or "if"s.

[@adisappointedfbiagent449]

Morality changes over time with different people, cultures, and nations. Not justifying anything but to truly understand a period of history I think it's important to try to look at it through the lense of those that lived and contributed to the time.

[@commandercorl1544]

@@adisappointedfbiagent449 I'm talking about modern day. But for centuries people have known slavery is bad, it's just the culture liked it. Now, the culture doesn't like it, people should all know it's bad, but people hold out.

[@freneticness6927]

Or slavery was bad and therefore white people are evil and black people are great.

[@Dave0G]

I had only previously seen the "valuable assets" argument applied relative to treatment of people when they were easily replaceable "assets" - either the brutal killing fields of pre-1830's sugar or the incomprehensibly short survival times of leased prisoners post reconstruction. That people can go from "it was less of a slaughter" to "so they had it pretty good" is taking a mile from an inch.

[@toonybooper]

Where there's the threat of violence, consent cannot exist.

[@Ruosteinenknight]

I've also heard comparisons between indentured servitude and slavery. There's no denying that indentured servitude could get abusive, but they one fundamental difference with slavery was that indentured servants weren't considered property and they had limited number of rights. All what slaves certainly didn't have.

[@woaddragon]

@@joepetto9488 no they did not, we can just look at the legal system to see that. For example, indentured servant could sue, and slave could not.

[@woaddragon]

@@joepetto9488 I don't know man, I see the legal codes for Virginia and South Carolina, and the laws is so much in flavor of the slave owners, that whatever fines or punishment that did exist was inconsequential. For example, On the casual killing of slaves, all the way in 1669, you could be fined if a slave died during a punishment, but only if he was not "resisting". Most laws about excessive punishment, and abandonment have similar have the same sense of vagueness and exception. That assuming of course, a legal case could be heard. As for the idea that most slave owners were belovent, that a matter of opinions. Would a slave or a slave owner have the same idea of what belovent is?

[@Awesomeisme7000]

😂😂😂 You are considered property of your fucking company the hours you decide to sign off your life 😂😂😂

[@amberhide04]

there definetely has a parallel of labor under capitalism and slavery, of course the violence far from being on the same level, but the violence of it is undeniable

[@Austin.Kilgore]

The “white people freed the slaves” argument always drives me up a wall lol

[@alphaundpinsel2431]

they did

[@nyastalgiakitten]

​@@alphaundpinsel2431and do they deserve any credit for that? No, you don't get to enslave people and then be celebrated for undoing your atrocities

[@imrengarotp3802]

@@nyastalgiakitten What if we take into account that about 80% of slave owners in America were jewish while nonjewish, even antijewish people stopped slavery? Also while you dont deserve credit for doing something bad and then stopping it its still something special that we managed to get rid of slavery in all white countries while the other races will most likely still need hundreds of years to understand that slavery is bad.

[@radicalprogamingdotgov]

​ @imrengarotp3802 I am in total awe of this comment, I don't even know what to say. how did you turn this stupid argument about slavery into an even stupider argument supporting antisemitism. wtf edit: somehow I didn't even notice the blatant racism, also did you even watch the video?

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

Like congrats buddy, you fixed the problem YOU caused. Want a cookie for it?

[@KolMan2000]

Back in school I was literally required to take a photo taken of a group of slaves and write a story that may have happened based on the photo. We were expected to write something positive. I was literally taught as a child the believe that the group in the photo was in some way or another happy with their lives.

[@fishboy3612]

Master only beat one of us today. (:

[@spiffygonzales5160]

Exactly. The evil of slavery isn't just in the beatings and killings, but in the actual system itself where an individual is totally deprived of freedom and stripped of basic human rights. Ngl I thought this was gonna be another "bashing beo confeds" video. I was wrong. Good vid.

[@elzoog]

"in the actual system itself where an individual is totally deprived of freedom and stripped of basic human rights. " You mean, like the public school system?

[@scrotoschannel6709]

Human rights as which? If you argue life and some degree of respect as rights everyone could accept that, but with freedom it is much more complicated, even now freedom to say or do certain things is lower.

[@SpoopySquid]

​@@elzoog false equivalence is false

[@TheOnlyKingBee]

​@@scrotoschannel6709 funny thing about rights is that they can be abused and usually people that hide behind "free speech" and such if you look closely you'll see things that are really fking bad. Few names come to my mind such as Ben Shapiro, and that psychologist wannabe who were so popular on the internet because they were mad people against other mad people.

[@friendguy13]

@@SpoopySquid No it's pretty accurate. Public schools are satanic.

[@nanotech1921]

The moment you start to feel like an absolute loser Just remember there are real people out there who defend slavery and attack those who slander it

[@Minecraft_man14655]

Imagine being loyal to a country that didnt last longer than my phone😂

[@danolantern6030]

It’s not ‘slander’ if it’s correct

[@Crashsmarty]

@@danolantern6030???

[@monkeybirthdaycake0627]

​@danolantern6030 Alright ,bedtime little guy

[@HarringtonBoy]

​@@monkeybirthdaycake0627I think they're antislavery

[@jordanbrown3816]

My AP US history teacher was one of those guys that said “slavery wasn’t as bad as it is in the movies… most slaves were treated well… the civil war was about states’ rights not slavery” AP… United States… history… Bonus: his wife was the AP Literature teacher who loved Gone with the Wind

[@BrandonF]

Either you went to my high school, or this is disturbingly more common than I would have thought!

[@jordanbrown3816]

@@BrandonFI’m sure it’s so common, I didn’t even go to school in the south, this was in California!

[@BrandonF]

@@jordanbrown3816 Ohio, for me!

[@Perfect-cell3]

"Slavery bad" -the universal truth "Slavery is not all bad" -complete idiocy

[@pigminy]

I only watched 1 second of the video and all I have to say is slavery was bad, thank you for coming to my Ted talk

[@kelvin4067]

academic looks at hard subjects is exactly the kind of content i want see more of, thank you.

[@krissichan3127]

The rant at 3:40 reminded me of how I was jumped by people on Facebook for saying I don't like Elon Musk. Being a person of color, I guess that lead to the deluge of assumptions on my political leanings and who I vote for. Was truly eye-opening on how ignorant and combative our society is right now.

[@rasheed7934]

It should tell you who you shouldn't ally yourself to.

[@hilariousname6826]

The US is so extremely polarized that it's virtually impossible to even discuss the weather with someone not of your persuasion ("Oh - so you believe in climate change??!! Go get another vax!!!"). And because Americans are all over the internet, the rest of the world gets dragged in .....

[@tach-uq5tw]

The "kindly slave owner" argument reminds me of arguments for "good dictators". Doesn't matter how they are, (for the question of whether it's good or not, obviously using that power for evil is even worse) the fact that they have absolute power over other human beings to do as they please is the root of the problem.

[@vicenteisaaclopezvaldez2450]

I believe that while good can understand evil, evil can't understand good, for when evil understands good, it is destroyed.

[@fishboy3612]

And when evil understands evil it is a step away from good.

[@bigrob9044]

I’m a history teacher and this is great work. I will definitely use some of these points when discussing slavery.

[@DouglasJenkins]

As a great-great-great-great grandson of a Ghanaian stolen from her land ~1800 and brought into slavery in South Carolina, there is no argument that is defensible for slavery. Only because of DNA tests in 2010, was our family able to recover that connection and history. It doesn't take Critical Race Theory (CRT) to make you aware of the inherent nature of the "class system" in the US; whether it is layered by skin color, economic station, disability, culture, language. We shouldn't ignore this history, or hope it goes away. We must confront the perpetrators and transform our future.

[@yingyang1008]

Everyone agrees with you - you are arguing with people that don't exist

[@randomcanadianguy9740]

When does people will understand that a slave/master relationship should remain kinks in the bedroom and not in real life :/

[@teeth227]

best comment

[@JeremyPorcelain]

yessir

[@P3ndejosG4ng]

Real.

[@MemeAnt]

Maximum based

[@LeaveMeAlone3omgIgotloggedouta]

It shouldn’t exist period/in the first place?

[@rebillion9442]

not only are these “arguments for slavery by logic” ridiculous and fallacious, there is simply no viable answer to the question of in what case it would be acceptable to own another person

[@rodionraskolnikov3853]

Well why is it unacceptable to own another human?

[@talusimp7737]

@@rodionraskolnikov3853 bro really just asked that

[@kraziecatclady]

17:17 when you were talking about owners doing as they wish with their slaves, the awful thought came to mind about how some people severely abuse and even kill their children. If people are capable of doing something like that to their own child, I can't even imagine what they might do to slaves. Sadly, slave owners probably got in less trouble (if any) if they killed their slaves (on accident or on purpose).

[@Peter-jo6yu]

Very true. Apologies for slavery is basically apologies for right to abuse

[@sassymedea3065]

To add to your point in 1669 Virginia passed an act regarding the casual killing of enslaved people: “If any slave resist his master (or other by his master's order correcting him) and by the extremity of the correction should chance to die, that his death shall not be accompted felony.” They are also accounts of the children of the slave owner and his slave being physically abused even to the point of death by the wives of slave owners.

[@freneticness6927]

@@sassymedea3065 Thats 1669. There are quite a few cases of slave owners being hanged for killing slaves.

[@lokikinch]

I think of lot of the vitriol coming from the mentioning American slavery in the south stems from the good old "The civil war was about states rights!" Argument... which funnily enough most southern states did mention slavery as a reason of leaving the union in their secession declarations, but all in all great video Brandon keep up the amazing work!

[@Stand_watie]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_units_of_Indian_Territory We also had an entire army of natives fighting for freedom and against extinction just saying

[@lokikinch]

​@@Stand_watie Yeah, desperate people who had their land stolen from them given a chance to get their land back. Not exactly surprising they would take that chance for it back considering how important their homelands are to them.

[@jaegercat6702]

@@Stand_watie both the Union and the Confederacy were heavily racist against the natives. They were fighting in order to maybe negotiate a better deal and keep their land a few extra decades, assuming the Confederacy kept their word, which they probably wouldn’t have. Them being there has no bearing on the morality of the Confederacy

[@lokikinch]

​@@jaegercat6702 exactly what I meant, thanks for wording that better lol

[@Dap1ssmonk]

@@Stand_watie “yeah the nazis weren’t bad, if they were bad Finland wouldn’t join them!” Bruh

[@Nerobyrne]

"It's not about food. It's about keeping those ants in line!"

[@Ayem427]

It's always crazy to me that this is even a debate, like dude I'm Slavic-Celtic, ALL of my ancestors were threatened by slave raids from the Norse, the Ottomans, etc, lile how do more of us NOT understand how bad slavery is, especially those of us whose ancestors were threatened by it on a daily basis??

[@andremacedo8463]

Well tbh this was a lot of time ago, not trying to justify but colonial slavery is way more recent and thus way more present in society