Brands Can Do Better! Things That Matter...and Don't To Our Crew

#ebike #loamwolf
Join us for this discussion of things we'd like to see the Industry improve on, what topics are most important, what would prevent us from buying a certain eMTB, and more importantly, what wouldn't.
Over the years we have tested over a hundred different eBikes and have come away with quite a few thoughts and impressions from our own rides and talking with friends, strangers and countless other eMTB riders all over the World.
We hope you enjoy the conversation and please let us know what matters most to you, down below.
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#mtb #mountainbike

[@SubmarinersDive]

Standardize motor mounting points on FRAMES! I want to choose the frame and motor, just like I can forks, shocks, brakes, grips, pedals.

[@thewrx2600]

not that all those other things are entirely standard, but yes mounting systems need to be standardized, and maybe even take its a far for batteries battery extenders.

[@canieto1]

I love the "Not a real mountain biker" shirt. perfectly encapsulates the senseless anti-ebike gatekeeping.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thank you! haha. Life's too short to be angry all the time, let's all have fun.

[@mustclime5311]

Water proofing of the drive unit.......non of them have the required sealing.

[@josephcox2201]

Bosch does

[@weslenkewich7359]

My top priorities when it comes to E-bikes is the weight and downhill performance. That's why I just ordered a Transition Relay PNW. I also live in Canada, so I store my bikes in the garage (not heated) and it's pretty important that I can remove the batteries for long term storage.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Great points as well!

[@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v]

It's important to note most can be removed some are a little more involved and some a bit of a lengthy process that you wouldn't want to have to do on the regular but would be fine for seasonal storage.

[@mrmotovisor3417]

I think the new Orbea Rise with full power, low weight and the option for a 430 or 630 battery with range extender is exactly what industry should strive for. You can configure it to be exactly what you want. The only thing that still needs to catch up are drivetrains that are much more durable.

[@fzr1000981]

How do you define "full power"? That's relative compared to a Wild with Bosch Race motor, which I consider a superior system

[@mrmotovisor3417]

@@fzr1000981 anything with 85nm or more is generally considered a full power emtb

[@BSE75]

I like to see more e-bike framekits to buy. full power motor lighter battery + range extender is my way to go in the future

[@TheLoamWolf]

Same!

[@weaponofchoice8942]

Guys great work. I am in the module battery camp. Just enough power for the ride. I own three EMTBs two full power one mid power and love all three for different reasons. I do have a recommendation; I am retired and ride with lots of intermediate riders here in the hill country of Texas. Me guys and I can’t relate to how you guys ride. We are riding rock gardens and 4 to 11 mph technical trails. No groomed trails. So I can’t tell which bike would be best where we ride. Lots of ebikers are not going down hill flying through the air. Looks great but not what most of the guys/ gals we know and who really can afford a 10/12k bike . Peace

[@swiatekx3]

The number one thing I want is a repairable and replaceable motor before I drop $6k on a bike. I want to know I'm covered 2 or 3 years down the line if my motor seizes. Unlike testers who mostly have unlimited access to new bikes, I only own one bike. I want peace of mind knowing I can fix or replace the motor if needed. A standard mount like a SRAM hanger would be ideal, but I understand that might not be feasible

[@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v]

There it is that last part feasible just like cars and motorcycles and other things with engines you can't just bolt what ever engine you want in. It not just because they just don't want you to be able to it's just not realistic. However having a few options that may be more realistic.

[@SEBARU_117]

I'd like to see battery, chargers, and charger connections to be standardized. I have to ebikes with Shimano motors and the chargers and connectors are completely different. Removable and interchangeable batteries would be nice too.

[@richardbedford5583]

This! ^^^ Surprised EU hasn't force manufacturers to standardise on charging plugs. Would make complete sense.

[@EvanShowsMTB]

Standardized motor mounting is the dream 🙌 aside from that I would like to see manufacturers provide service KITS so I can work on my own motor instead of sending it off if I have an issue after warranty period ends

[@kostak2171]

Removable battery is required for being able to fly with your bike, if I'm not mistaken. Also if they implement a good quick release system, instead of carrying a range extender, you could quickly swap in a a brand new battery for longer rides!

[@_TheDeanMachine]

After riding the fuza motor equiped bike and a full power bike (Bosch) back to back, i am sold on the fuza system. The power difference I felt was very minimal and the range was about equivalent. I did the same climb back to back and used two bars on both bikes. So for me the weight saving and the playfulness of the lighter fazura was way better.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Great info thank you.

[@jungzollner6069]

I highly doubt that. I've ridden with friends who had the fazua and they could not keep up at all with the full power ep8 and Bosch cx bikes. No way you are getting 6k elevation out of the fazua with their 430wh battery, which I can get out of the Bosch cx with the 750wh battery in the emtb mode. No doubt the Fazua has it's place but it's not comparable to a full power ebike. And bikes like the relay make no sense to me when they clock in at 45 lbs but give up almost half the battery capacity for 5-6 lbs. The heckler sl is more compelling at 40lbs but that's a trail bike built with a 36.

[@skellener]

Now if they could just ditch that cheap plastic controller for something substantial made of metal with bearings or just use reliable buttons like others.

[@JeepingNet]

I want to see more self repair in eMTB -- I like my local bike shop but having to relay on them for any thing that goes wrong I hate it. I just smashed my TCU on my specialized 2 weeks ago and still no real word on getting a new one. I'd love to be just able to buy it myself but even if I do that I can't install it because I need their software. My next eMTB I might be looking into more who allows more self repair.

[@SwimmingBird846]

None of the brands are self-repair friendly. We need right to repair badly.😊

[@roymerrill]

I have a Kenevo SL. It is not easily removable. I have never wanted to remove it. I just plug it in. Securely being bolted in with no rattle and noise is more important to me.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thanks for sharing. We tend to agree. But, also realize traveling with an ebike becomes more difficult when you can’t remove it…

[@roymerrill]

@@TheLoamWolf I live in Utah, Salt Lake City area. There is a shuttle for the Wasatch Crest Trail that doesn't take e-bikes. I don't know if they would even take an e-bike with the battery taken out. So that isn't much of an argument either. I hear that you can take your e-bike on a plane if you take the battery out, and then you have to take your chances if they allow you put the battery in a carry on or checked bag. A lot of google searches that I do specify no batteries exceeding 100Wh. So I don't know if that is even practical. I think I would still like the no-rattle or noise option...

[@TheLoamWolf]

Yeah what we've done is ship the battery via to a friend or bike shop in our final destination and then arrive with the bike on the airline... Of course there's the risk it gets lost in transit, but, then you could maybe find a shop and just beg them to loan you a battery for a few days? haha

[@blakkpatron]

As someone living in a cold climate having a removable battery is a must.

[@blakkpatron]

Adding to that, this is why I ended up ordering the new propain sresh.

[@TK-pv6qu]

I have a Transition Relay. I like being able to remove the batter for charging. It allows me to charge the battery almost everywhere. Also my garage has very inconvenient placement of outlets. If traveling and bringing a bike into the hotel room is not an option, I can bring the battery into my room and charge. The Relay is my first eMTB, so I can say I don’t know or experienced other types of charging.

[@TheLoamWolf]

That’s a definite benefit. But, not having the option to charge in-bike is a bummer too!

[@skyonic01]

ebikes... 1. how loud is the motor on the way up and how much drag or rattle on the way down 2. display integrated is must 3. can you change the cranks.... 4. what is the charge port like? 5. extender is a must on the sl bikes ... everything else i can change

[@AL-sd5cs]

I’m waiting for a lighter Pinion MGU bike, the Nicolai Saturn is built like a tank and looks light years ahead of all the bikes tested here and built to last..just a bit heavy on paper..other than that a Fazua system would be my other option

[@andresamson8859]

It’s not that heavy for what it is. Being in the middle of the bike, it probably feels a lot lighter than equally weight bike (none MGU)

[@AL-sd5cs]

@@andresamson8859 for sure, based on the videos it seems like a balanced machine..very interesting to test one out

[@bongobob7079]

No mention of the Pinion MGU? I am surprised you didnt touch on such a great system. I don't actually think I would buy any other system than a MGU driven bike currently

[@andresamson8859]

I’m on the same thought. I’ve seen a couples of reviews of the MGU and I’m waiting for it to come to Canadian market. It’s just common sense and i’m tired of changing chain and degreasing/oiling chain all the time…

[@ScaldedDawg]

Same... waiting for MGU w/ belt drive to hit the US market.

[@jarvis2101]

They need hdpe bash guards. That’s what’s on dirt bikes not plastic. They are inherently slick and take impact well

[@obiwun32]

High Density Poly Ethylene HDPE is plastic. It's good plastic. I agree though, HDPE or even glass fibre Nylon P66 would be a great material. ADC12 Die cast aluminium bash on my Trek Rail isn't the best choice, I've cracked one.

[@chriswiles87]

As battery research advances, solid-state batteries will double the energy density of current lithium-ion batteries. Imagine a 50lb eMTB packing 1600Wh, or keeping it ultra-light at 400Wh and cutting the weight to 30-35lbs. The future's looking shockingly light and powerful! 🚴‍♂🔋

[@TheLoamWolf]

It’s definitely an exciting time!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Yeah yeah... it's been 25 yrs since it's just coming, calculate that in Elon years, so about in a century maybe solid state batteries will be invented... 😂 It's vaporware the closest thing someone made is take capacitors tech that already exists.

[@linemanap]

@@LaurentiusTriarius solid-state batteries are already in mass production. I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[@stephentreble7]

@@linemanapIf something is already in mass production that means you should be able to buy it from somewhere or see it offered routinely in bikes already. While solid state batteries for e-bikes have been demonstrated taking a product from prototype to mass production can take years.

[@matenc]

They should standarddize the charging port, all to USB C! Only one cable type for all brands.

[@-bh]

That would probably end up frustrating for most people since USB-C cables are a mess. The spec allows for cables up to 240W, but most cables only go up to 27W or 60W. Meanwhile most of the eebs I've seen have a >300W charger. There should totally be a standard, but USB-C likely isn't a good choice as most consumers would be upset with 12 hour recharge times. Maybe they can include both ports in case you're not in a hurry?

[@khunlongpete]

reliable water proof motors, repairable motors, motors that last(and that means 20000 km or more, standardisation of batteries,chargers and motor mounts, removable batteries, affordable standarized range extenders, no longer integrated cables(I like to bled my brakes off the bike), possibibility to mount batteries with different power(360, 500 watthours on the same bike), no intergrated screens and start buttons etc., bottom brackets that can be exchanged(now worn out bottom bracket is worn out motor). More tunability of the motor etc etc. Shorter cranksets(pedal strikes kill motors)

[@josephcox2201]

Bosch motor can do 60k in miles and the Battery can do 2000 chages

[@lars_atx]

Prefer quiet, motors rattles, everything. Ideally, these bike companies can adopt the new USB-C PD spec, which can deliver upto 240W (5A 48V) of charging power. which is more than some of the chargers I've seen. Would also like them to partner with nav units for display and tracking performance options.

[@dumwee]

I want removeable batterie just to you can dry the "channel" after a wash. You can be sure water will get in there even with normal garden hose. I always remove the battery and the oneup tools from the stem.

[@Jeroensurf]

I Own a Orbea Wild and although I really like the bike, the motor protection is something they really need to upgrade (I know there are 3th parties who sell protectors). For the future/wishlist: An universal simple charging port and charger isnt that much to ask for and saves tons of different chargers (this works for mobiles in the EU) Get rid of the extra friction when you paddle above assistance, make bikes as silence as possible, More bikes with Pinion MGU! alike systems, preferable that doesn't cost a kidney and a 2th mortgage..

[@andersonsridebikes]

I have significant time riding most of the major ebike motors (Bosch, Brose/Sram, Shimano). My biggest gripes are the amount of pedaling friction beyond 20mph, and finding the motor's preferred cadence while sprinting below 20mph. This is particularly noticeable on fast flow trails. This is where traditional MTBs really shine over EMTBs. The SL motors seem to generate much less friction, but they suffer on range. For now, its hard for me to imagine liking an EMTB as much as I like my V3 Raaw Madonna. For now, I'll stick with the Transition Repeater, because it has very similar geo numbers to my Madonna.

[@obiwun32]

Over here in Aus, the land of 25kph cut out. Dealbreaker purchase decision is if the bike can be derestricted. Bikes with an external speed sensor are preferable. Rim magnets are a no go for us. Every single one of my friends is derestricted, it’s number 1. Removable battery is also very important. I just got back from Bentonville with our e-bikes. We were able to send the batteries FedEx and take our bikes as luggage. Also, two batteries are great for camping emtb trips and longer sessions where you might want to have more range.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Nice info thanks for sharing.

[@manfredstrappen7491]

Touching on the Brose/Specialized/Trek motors would’ve been nice.

[@josephcox2201]

There junk

[@hassebir]

Pinion MGU is on my next bike if no one else makes a gearbox motor unit. basta!

[@grrlewis1]

I would like to see full access to all power modes right up until the battery is exhausted. My Levo cuts power once you get below 10%. Don’t nanny me!!

[@bjmn7d]

Really enjoyed all of the videos for those in the shootout. I don't have an eBike yet but imagine I'll get one eventually so I've been watching reviews closely to see what I'd snag later on at sale pricing. My main interests are in downhill performance and "natural" motor assist tech and motor reliability. The prior models seem to have fairly negative long-term reviews as far as motor service/breakdown but it is hard to keep track of which specific models are potentially problematic (need to start making a spreadsheet or something). I definitely want one of the lighter ebikes because I'm not a fan of the full power tanks out there. My current wishlist is Transition Relay, Ari Timp Peak or Nebo Peak, Canyon Strive:ON CFR Underdog, or one of the Pivots cause they seem like a very solid brand.

[@dreman5547]

Hey You’ll, It would be cool to have mag charging to eliminate the flimsy port opening and awkward insertion of charging cable. Also don’t need 12 speed, 9 or 10 with 48 tooth is fine. More Pinion gearbox motors available here would be great too. For now I’m happy with my Pivot Shuttle LT size small (I’m 5’ 8”) fits me so good.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thanks for sharing.

[@mi1stormilst]

We need more of these types of videos and close ups of damage so the manufactures will take more notice. Also service needs to be seriously factored into bike recommendations.

[@scottpratico1315]

I am on my second shimano equipped bike and am blown away at how much the new ep801 has improved over the old version. That said, shimano needs to display battery charge in percentage. The 20% gap between bars is just ridiculous. Also, all these bikes should come with a 500wh ish battery with 250wh extenders. The mounting for the extenders needs a lot more thought as you pointed out. So now you have a light bike with options for increased range. Finally, all ebikes should have plug and play lights and a usb charging port for phones/navigation units. My Devinci eTroy made running a light wire a complete faff. Just install the wires already.

[@hobblyjig]

I don't have a climate controlled bike storage area so the bike can be in extreme temps in the dead of winter and heat of summer out in my shed. I need to be able to pull the battery to keep it out of those temps. I also prefer to charge the battery in the house where its room temperature as well.

[@nick22954]

i have a riftzone e1. the frame looks on some points very similar as the polygon. Priorities when it comes to E-bikes: more range. Ive bought an extra 630W battery , 90% of the time im in a trailcenter and can easy/fast remove battery. & a better way to do software updates. i see people (incl myself) the do a update (shimano) and after the update there is a failure code in the app.

[@otiscooper5013]

Thanks for another great comparison video series. I'm glad to finally see someone mention the lousy plastic motor covers that come on many of these bikes which crack as soon as you touch them to a log or rock. Please push the manufacturers to at least offer an optional bash guard that would survive a chunky trail ride. Thankfully I found an aftermarket skid plate for my Nukeproof Megawatt. On your removable battery question, my Megawatt has a removable battery but I've never removed it so I guess I'm in the "removable not required" camp.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thank you for sharing and appreciate you watching the series.

[@grrlewis1]

Such a shame that the Orbea does not have a removable battery. It rules it out as an option for those of us without access to outdoor/garage charging.

[@Emtbtoday]

I designed and printed my own rear pivot mud gaurd for my bike works great! Best thing about cad you can get it perfect to your own frame its not universal whare still leaving gaps for crap and squeaking and rubbing paints off!

[@jlh530i1]

If we are putting in requests to manufacturers, mine would be for modularity … I want a light enduro type of bike with a motor like the shimano 801 rs with the ability to swap a ~400 or ~700 battery and the ability to add a range extender in the water bottle cage. In the light battery configuration, I would like this bike to weigh less than 45 lbs and in a 475ish reach with a sub 1270 wheelbase, mullet, and a stack height higher than 640. Please and thank you Santa 🙏🏼

[@TheLoamWolf]

Sounds like a great recipe to us. And undoubtedly something that some brands will offer soon!

[@jeffreyfoster7297]

Standardized plug port would be nice or paint a dot on the top of the plug and be done. I’d like to see more options for wireless remotes. I have a Rail 9.9. with the wireless remote and I don’t think I could live without it now. Real problems right!

[@Emtbtoday]

As a heavier rider, the SL 65nm ebikes are of no use to me. I'm only interested in ebikes with an 85nm motor and a 750w battery. I don't care about the weight savings; I prefer the stability of a heavier ebike, especially when jumping and dealing with crosswinds. Ebikes with a 400w battery and an additional 250w range extender are a waste of time. Just add the range extender to the main battery and get rid of the water bottle holder. Who cares about the weight of 2kg? Plus, SRAM's new range extender can only be used in range extender mode, so you're losing power. Definitely not my cup of tea.

[@jamesmorin3011]

Love the lighter, not necessarily super light, bikes that have reasonable size battery for daily use but an option for a range extender. Cannondale for instance, just add a 200wh extender and you’re set for daily rides and long weekend epic rides.

[@michaelroy5989]

I'm not a big fan of the E-Bike. A fairly large inventory of E-bikes But you did a really good job testing them and describing each one. I listened to each of the videos. I really liked. And as one of you said, having a standard for the motors, how they are attached to the frame, etc. Would be really good in the future. But everyone can dream. The only electric bike I would be interested in is probably one with the Pinion Smart Shift system. Can change gears without pedaling, rubber strap instead of a chain which requires more attention. Maybe too different from the ones you had. Perhaps harder to compare with others. But hey, great job

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thank you very much for taking time to not only watch but also to write in. Knowing that you're not even a huge eBike enthusiast but can remain open-minded and objective to this series is awesome. We're glad you found it entertaining, even if it wasn't directly helpful to you as a "buyer." Thanks again

[@kyleslater5245]

The combined unit is tempting. Probably the only thing that would make me want to switch from Rocky motors.

[@eddiealberton]

Id like to see a chain guard for the Shinmano EP motor. I have ruined 2 chains by hitting it on rocks and bending the link. My motor protector on the Fezzari Timp Peak seems to do very well for protection but the exposed chain is killing me

[@manfredstrappen7491]

I mostly like my Bosch CX but they need to realize that the MTB owners aren’t commuter bike owners. The anti theft feature is not. You can still pedal the bike. If you don’t have the kiosk display, you have to dig your phone out. Oh, you want to add the kiosk? They won’t sell you one. “variable cable lengths and bar diameters require you to visit the dealer”. Really? Yet they market the display but not the parts to power it? Their support boils down to “visit your dealer! Also using Komoot for mapping is less than great. I’ll definitely look for a Shimano or Specialized next time.

[@thechiefworm]

The Bosch charger has a lip on it like a small ramp which is the top of the charge plug so it goes in the right way every time. Just wanted to say that 🙂 I also would like to see standard mounting for motors so you can choose the system you prefer. Plus waterproof the entire systems to stop so many faults.

[@sparksfly369]

Interesting conversation. For years the consistent narrative I’ve heard is that Bosch, Brose, and Yamaha were fairly similar in performance, with Shimano a distant last. This is the most favorable review I’ve ever heard on Shimano. It sounds like they made up a lot of ground with the EP801, which is great since so many bikes have Shimano motors.

[@jessehill3780]

Since a mounting standard seems like it’s not going to happen it’d be nice to see frame manufacturers solve the issue themselves by designing the frame with a larger than necessary mounting area and then using adapters to mount whatever drive unit is desired. That said it is nice to hear that currently they’re all good and somewhat equivalent. I just got my first ebike and it has the ep8, looking at the difference for me vs the ep801 the cost difference didn’t seem worth it and so far the ep8 already seems ridiculously powerful so I’m happy. Also for my purpose with the hopes to do longer distance rides in areas I couldn’t before (such as the Tahoe areas) having the battery easy to swap was a concern. I’d rather have the smaller 630w battery for normal locations with the ability to carry an additional if needed and even better would be is Shimano made an official range extender boost battery, something I think they seriously need to consider as now Sram and others are doing so. Currently your only shimano offers are either the official 630w battery or an aftermarket and more weight. And even though not important to a lot of people probably but as a tech I’d love to see user serviceability, it seems dumb to me to possibly have to replace a 1000 drive unit for a failed 30.00 BB bearing. These are e mtb ridden in harsh conditions and should expect bearings failures, this was actually one thing that almost turned me off of the bike because of the shimano drive unit and not because it’s performance but because a brose is serviceable and a rebuild is typically 250.00 and even has better bearing and seal options from some of the UK service centers whereas if/when my shimano fails I’m not sure what the answer is then, hopefully there is more options than just a complete replacement by then.

[@durtyt4770]

I need to be able to hot swap my batteries. I ride moto trails in the PNW. A small loop is around 10 miles. A good day of riding is in the 50 mile loop range.

[@chrisaustin8223]

Removable battery always for me, don't overlook the problems trying to operate a freezing cold ebike if it is stored in the winter in sub zero temperatures in a garage or shed.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Good point! Thanks for sharing.

[@Flight29er]

I’d like a 500-600wh battery (removable) to keep weight down but also a range extender that I can fly with (160wh?) like the Specialized SL. Also I think the lighter battery bikes with full power motors is the way ahead, especially if you have full control of the motor output via an app like the Giant/Yamaha motor app. That way you can do a full boost power lap or dial it down for a longer ride.

[@ilidiofaria]

I have ebike since 2018, always with Shimano motors and lightweight with range extender.

[@andrewvickers5565]

I would love to see bikes buck the trend of longer, lower, slacker. My 2015 Haibike Nduro Pro 180/180 26" was so much fun, agile but forgiving with frame geometry similarto a trail bike in a size small! Also I wouldn't entertain a bike with a non-removable battery although with most of the half fat bikes going with a small fixed internal battery with a range extender is probably the way all bikes will go😕

[@alexanderlothe5656]

Ultimate bike for me would be a DW-link bike like Pivot having a Pinion E1.12 system with belt. And I'm gravitating towards the bigger battery the better. Those tend to stand up better over time with usage, just like electric cars. Less cycles and abuse on larger pack. I like to use my bike for everything. From mountain trail to long journeys all packed up, on the road and in the cities. Like one bike do it all.

[@phattysnow]

The ability to purchase and replace the motor on your own is the most important. Stop paying absurd amounts of money (either upfront with purchase price or after warranty) to have a shop do this. I should be able to buy the motor off the shelf for $500 and put it in my bike just like I can with literally every other part on bikes.

[@jasonmurphy2885]

After trying the SL e-bikes and the full power e-bikes, I find myself loving the full power on the climbs and loving the lighter SL e-bikes on the descents. I’d love to see more full power e-bikes with lighter battery options to get the weight down as much as possible like the new Cannondale Moterra SL and the new Orbea Rise

[@QuakFu]

It has been mentioned but why no mention of the Brose motor system in the Specialized?

[@TheLoamWolf]

No real reason to be honest. Could be that we didn’t have one at this year’s test so it fell to the back of our minds? But it is a good performing system and is quiet, offers good power and feel, but it also appears to have more than its share of failures. According to them it’s a rather low percentage, so it could be the vocal minority, but we’ve only had 1 fail out of 4 Levos we’ve ridden.

[@QuakFu]

@@TheLoamWolf Myself and several friends have 22+ Levos and no one has had a failure. I agree that its the vocal minority and if you sell that many units, even a small percentage of failures may be more than other brands.

[@miroraja]

I'm most interested about full power and small battery 400-500wh that should be way to go.

[@porroco]

I had a turbo levo before my shimano ep8 and broose seemed to be more natural, beside it was a velt driven. Shimano dont have any email for support, so parts and technical support is very hard from shimano

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thanks very much for sharing. Not having easily findable email is a big issue. Guessing that’s because they want customers to default to a local dealer.

[@canieto1]

I have both motors and I get the opposite. Shimano is super natural and doesn't feel like the motor is even there. Brose doesn't give power right away and then keeps going when I don't want it to. maybe I just have a bad sample.

[@porroco]

@@TheLoamWolf yes, but in my country panama whenever you take the bike to them the number one question is where did you buy it.

[@erik2k09]

I have a Crestline with a 750w battery and ride in Santa Cruz. Never even come remotely close to draining the entire battery in one ride. I think more companies need to offer optional or smaller batteries. Full power motor with ~450 battery and optional extender I think would suit the vast majority of riders

[@andresamson8859]

I get through my 900wh battery in less than 3h when i want to. 1700m of vertical and a lot of sweating!

[@FantomPhish]

Motor mount standardisation and more frame set only options…

[@fzr1000981]

Agree for racing the Bosch Race motor is top notch (reliability and power) but I always ride in EMTB mode unless climbing steep hills. Turbo is over assisted for most trails

[@jmerodgers]

I like the removeable battery for sure. but the one on my Reign E is super easy tool free removal. I also like the advent of Shimano Linkglide XT for its durability and relatively low replacement cost. As E-Bikes are a big investment i want one that is going to last at least 5 years if not more. 2 advantages of replaceable batteries, you can buy another one and just pop it on if you are doing a big day, and some manufacturers will sell you different sized batteries (ie Norco) so you can tailor your battery to the type and length of ride you are doing and dont have to suffer the same weight penalty...

[@8664antonio]

Sorry, the most complete system is from turbo levo, TCU engine and app! Then specialized has the best service. The rest is behind.

[@gr8fasushi]

internal headset routing needs to die. It's truly awful and unintuitive. The tube in tube routing should be more widely adopted. I bought the Canyon Strive:On Underdog and the internal routing and trying to route a new brake hose was hell. I want to be able to push a brake hose or cable housing through one hole, and have it come out the other side without any drama.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thank you for sharing. We don't disagree. Robert may be the most open to it, but the rest of us just don't see any major, compelling reason to have it.

[@Cassienope]

I am currently looking at what I need to route the brake line for a Cannondale Moterra SL. So many steps. And one of them is drop the motor and potentially the battery.

[@kyleslater5245]

I wish my battery was easily removable. Otherwise Im happy with my choice of the rocky Mountian. I do worry about maintenance but I’m far enough from dealers that nothing is “fully supported”. I’d probably stick with the same if I were looking currently unless a really stupid deal on something. I do really really love the lack of noise from the rocky and the pedal bike feel. I’m also with the crew that wishes I could mount whatever motor I want to my emtb frame. It should be just a component like everything else….

[@Jcool721]

I ride the Trek Rail 7. I like removable battery because of easy maintenance of cables etc. For example, the seat post cable is easy to loosen for seatpost maintenance. I hate the Bosch rattle and whine, please fix it! Not much wrong in the bike though. Just make it lighter and faster. Stupid EU speed limit 25kmh. LOL, that really suck.

[@grrlewis1]

Standardised chargers for the batteries across all brands would be great.

[@collinellis3503]

specialized is always ahread of the pack in integration, i imagine the gen 4 levo will take it a step ahead of anything else. id also like to see more gearbox motor combo options, and more high pivot bikes, with drag and effeciency not nearly as important on a full powered emtb, its worth the rearward axle path and little pedal feedback.

[@joshuarohl9371]

I've worked at an ebike shop for 4 years and sold well over 1000 bikes using Bosch, Shimano, Bafang, Dyname, Ananda and other motor systems. Any questions let me know and I'll see if there's anything I can add in terms of value :)

[@NATURALBORNSHREDDER]

Standardized motor mount bolts, you can pick your favorite geometry and pair it to the motor, in a smart world, but it's a greed world. Probably won't happen so in meantime at minimum rebuild kits. And as you guys said universal range extenders and batteries, easily possible. Surely engineers worth their salt can make solid quite removable batteries, essential for battery health imo. They have to design bikes for mechanics and not consumers with money to blow.

[@testtesttesttesttest884]

Test the Levo sl

[@bfranco1519]

Specialized has an arrow to line up the charge port. Yeah the Bosch ones suck. +1 on frame clear coating thickness, bearing, and motor protection. Ditch cable headset routing.

[@chriswiles87]

Would love all chargers to use USB C

[@Rachman01]

Lol.. E-bikes are not phones.. 😂

[@phase2re]

I am looking forward to more lightweight full power options. I rarely ride for more than 2 hrs at a time.

[@shayne131]

Full power, Removable battery is a must, 500-600wh. If with a tool no big deal. Range extender's i think are too much faf with having to change your suspension set up's. If you are going to do a range extender then make it so you can utilise your complete 2nd battery. So best of both worlds, a light park lap bike that you swap battery in, battery out. Then if you're going to do an epic second battery sits on the down tube externally as the range extender. Thats when you use your second suspension set up. Hurry up motor gear box combo's.

[@cliffsangelsphotography]

TQ for the win. I love my Trek Fuel Exe. I'm a lightweight rider, so 50nm is plenty for me, and prefer an agile ebike

[@andresamson8859]

I would like to see a 85Nm TQ motor , making love to a pinion gearboxe. The internal tech of the TQ would make it slimmer than the current Pinion MGU

[@msjj000]

Stiffer lighter quieter full power any day. I’m 200lbs trim so small batteries are restrictive imo, putting a bike with “non removeable battery” in a bag once or twice a year takes longer than removing a battery for trips, no large single point of failures (mgu) especially on a trip, many parts are relatively inexpensive depending on brand and available. 1000 comments and 999 opinions 😂😂😂

[@Doub1e_R]

I think YT decoy has best battery mounting. Two bolts and that’s it. No rattle from battery.

[@S14AA]

I like how my ep800 is in trail and boost my issue is racing I get gapped on climbs and I'm starting to think it's not just me 😅

[@rickybarker4023]

No mention of warranty on the motors or battery or reliability of the systems. Surely this is important. Also having ran brushed, brushless, pcb’s and lithium batteries in rc cars under water with no issues, why haven’t manufactures made the systems more water resistant. Simple things like coatings on electronics would be nice.

[@skellener]

Here’s a thought for Shimano, you’ve got numerous data fields for your screens on EP8 and EP801 systems. Up to four fields per screen. Yet, not a single screen will display battery in percentage with actual numbers. Just a stupid bar graphic. It’s literally the only important data field needed. These systems have been around for years now. Numerous firmware updates. Still no battery percentage field. Does anyone at Shimano actually ride an eMTB? 🤦‍♂️

[@MonsterChuck]

I'm fine cutting weight but not cutting power. That is the one reason I wouldn't want a LT EMTB. Quiet bikes are king.... noise gets in my head on the trail.

[@K1ngJame5-mtb]

The Norco Range with a Brose Mag 2.2 motor! Love the norco but I cant stand the Bosch motor rattle/clunk on the descents over chunk

[@fooblahblah]

Not emtb specific, but I feel like I see them on emtb's a lot - cable thru headset/stem systems. Not happening, nope, not buying a bike with that.

[@GarthFlint-nc2vj]

I have a Scott Genius emtb. Has a key to drop out the battery. Why? I have to not lose a key! Hate it. I never need to pull a battery quickly. An Allen bolt would be much better. Worry about someone stealing my battery? Not likely. I ride my ebike year round. Dust and sand in the summer, ice ad snow in the winter. That motor needs to be sealed tight. I worry about it.

[@c.1211]

Good morning my dude!👊👍

[@TheLoamWolf]

Same to you!

[@maxtorque2277]

As the latest bikes get ever closer in performance, could you actually add a Cateogry, for "the bike i WOULDN'T take home"? Ok, it's a negative award that might not sit well with the manufactures who loan out these bikes, but honestly, i'd rather know which NOT to buy than which to buy ;-)

[@TheLoamWolf]

That's a tough one, but we know where you're coming from. There are bikes we personally wouldnt want for our preferences/riding zones but thats not to say they wouldnt be good for someone else. If we had an absolute turd on test, we would definitely call it out though.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I want silent operation. Lightweight. Upgradeable. Under 2k?! Ok 3? Hmmm ok 4k 😂

[@TheLoamWolf]

Haha.

[@doepicchet]

Stop with the headset routing... standardized motor mounts, extender and charging systems.

[@btfox]

Headset cable routing would be a deal breaker for me. The pain of having to bleed your brakes to service a headset bearing. The whole clean cockpit thing is ridiculous and gimmicky

[@donbenincasa7442]

The Bosch plug does SUCK (including the stupid lousy port covers)

[@dreman5547]

Hey when people tell me e-bikes are cheating, I say yeah you’re cheating yourself if you don’t get one.

[@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v]

almost all bikes today are cheating they have things like gears ,suspension even evil things like disc brakes🤣

[@chriswiles87]

I would love Apple Watch support for bike and battery stats

[@TheLoamWolf]

So would we!

[@taylorhickman84]

How about the industry explain the why these bikes cost as much as a motorcycle. I thought it was due to economy of scale, but industry insiders have told me otherwise.

[@TheLoamWolf]

We'd be more curious as to why non-ebikes cost as much as ebikes!??

[@TheMirrorVision]

Shimano’s warranty and limited service policy is a joke. They have to change, otherwise you are at risk after 2 years.

[@donbenincasa7442]

If a bike is going to have a removable battery, it needs to be a better more robust design. NOT A CRAPPY PLASTIC COVER (that rattles)

[@14TacomaDR]

No Brose talk ?

[@user-ku8ip3yy7q]

More power torque not neceserily top speed! Weight is not the benefit at all, Any bike I like the new bafang unit!

[@kostak2171]

One piece stems and handlebars and cable routing through the headset have to go!!!