The Zhongli Controversy In Genshin Impact

[@BranOnline]

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[@luk4s56]

why would you waste time using your burst on deyah that just sounds like wasted time you could had spent on your dps

[@BranOnline]

@@luk4s56 At that point just use a dps idk LOL

[@Menuki]

I was there for it. Zhongli was bad. Geo was a joke at the time. He was performing worse than many 4 stars. I don’t know what Mihoyo was thinking…. It would’ve set a precedent that 5 stars weren’t worth pulling.

[@TheDarshes]

And that's how 90% of Zhongli owners lost their ability to dodge.

[@fraugoldt4766]

That's so true. My sister has him, I don't. We sometimes do each others daily commissions and watch the other person struggle with unfamiliar team comps. She really can't dodge - it's so funny. Im glad, I'm finally able to pull for him next phase tho cause Geo Daddy. 😎

[@mookiess]

Can definitely attest to this. I used him so often I developed a “tank through the pain” mindset and it worked…up until I reached that part of Raiden Shogun’s fight where the skills were disabled and Yae mikos training practice for the real fight. That’s when I learned just how bad I was (and still am) at dodging hits lmao. Dudes a blessing against damage but the chronic effects of using him comes back to haunt you for life.

[@itto_potato]

@@mookiessthis is me with Baizhu lol. I know Baizhu burst can heal me faster than enemies drain my dmg 😅 so why spend precious time dodging 😂. I’m getting Zhongli soon so I’m preparing for a complete loss of dodging abilities with each one of them on one team

[@shemage5932]

I don't get why people say "oh if you have Zhongli the game becomes easy because you don't need to dodge". If you have any good healer, you don't need to dodge much, but nobody talks about that.

[@livinginobscurity]

I have him as a main for my main account, he may not be the best but he stays until I stop getting every other 4 star character. 😅😅😅😅

[@crimsonECH1DNA]

I think the big "problem" with Zhongli was he came out at a time where the community hyper fixated on the value of your main DPS over your supports. Venti came out and while he wasn't the best DPS, his burst was lauded as being a mob slayer so he was valued as the best character. Zhongli just didn't do any explosive damage. So the second archon coming out and him just being "Diona without the heals" led to an understandable meltdown.

[@poonpoon1604]

isnt his shield on release even worst than diona? plus at first it didnt even have a cc reduction so even if we didnt look at dmg dealer potential he still pretty bad overall

[@halojitte]

​@@poonpoon1604No it wasn't. The person who did the test only used cryo damage and Diona's shield had a 250% bonus since it's a cryo shield. Without that bonus zhongli had more shield hp and up time. I had both characters fully built at the time and I had a big argument with someone about this. I was fine with zhongli prebuff since his shield allowed me to use teams without healer while Diona's shield would break after 2 hits but her heal made up for it. After the buff, he never left my team.

[@Kaimax61]

@@poonpoon1604 No it wasn't, that was conflated by the current abyss domains where it was ALL cryo enemies for some floors, WELL OF COURSE DIONA'S SHIELD WOULD BE BETTER than a neutral geo shield. And like usual alot of meta slavers parrot that to death during this. Now we never have the exclusive cryo floors anymore.

[@goodfriend4059]

But also his Shield was only strong against geo but now is against every element 14:22

[@gamertagge8429]

Yeah people where dps whores

[@jackyvalencia77]

I remember how everyone skipped Zhongli when everyone said he was bad and how much people regretted pulling for him but the buff rolled and people that skipped got mad lol

[@AsharaStark]

I actually pulled for him and have never regreted it 😁

[@hendenelupre1205]

Zongli is best partner for geo traveller where you need to expand zongli elemental skill

[@funnynamelol3156]

I got him and just prided in myself for having Zhongli while most others didn’t.

[@carlosleite7011]

i pulled for Childe, so in that time i was with no primos for even attepting for Zhongli. Anyway it's better to get a character in a rerun, because at least 6 months passed, enough time to people test and make theorycraft, so there's much more information about the character and if is really worth it pulling.

[@Hezkun]

I got him but never really used him until I needed a petra user for Neuvillette kekw

[@kyoken8691]

I got Zhongli and back then he basically had 2 problems, If you built him for DPS his shield sucked and if you built him for shielding his damage sucked. It was only later when hoyo added more HP scaling to his damage that you could feasibly built a tank Zhongli that still had decent damage, but yeah he suffered the same problem Xinyan suffers to this day. The second was that his Hold E did not summon the pillar, which meant Zhongli had pathetic energy particle generation and you had to do press e >wait 3sec >hold e if you wanted him to regen energy (remember this was before the idea of energy battery units became popular). The other fix Mihoyo did was add damage to the geo resonance but that's less of a Zhongli buff and more of a general geo buff.

[@mireknycz]

I mean idk I also got him when he came out and I was up to date with content at that point. Built him physical and the shield was still fine, almost never broke before I could recast it. The changes were helpful however and after more than a year of him being my main dps I transitioned him into a burst support shielder.

[@RKNancy]

​@@mireknyczplaying him physical was never an option before he got buffed.

[@mireknycz]

@@RKNancy Cool story, just not true since he was quite popularly played like this back then with decent success.

[@Animefan-lq3ui]

I really wanna pull for zhongli but this guy nueviellete is killing me right now. What should I do guys

[@ItsVab]

@@Animefan-lq3uidepends what you need. If you wanna go meta. Zhongli will always be the de facto go to shielder in the game. We don’t know Neuvilette’s spot in the meta right now, the best we can do is look at kit leaks (they’re out on Genshin impact leaks subreddit), and speculate there. But unless you’re really struggling with the abyss, waifus/husbandos >>>> meta. Follow your heart there

[@f.b.iagent3971]

I will say that, even if it was a little before my time, Zhongli before the buff would defo had fallen farther than Venti in the meta nowadays, Zhongli’s viability is already slipping a bit since more teams dislike Geo But my main reason that the buff was good is what it did to Geo, the buff to Geo Resonance was arguably bigger than Zhongli’s buff itself as it breathed new life into the element, now we have that one singular team, mono geo, that was born from this and is actually viable, it’s not much but we wouldn’t have it without this buff

[@joeyisabsb1]

I was playing during the time of his release and was one of the few ppl who didn't think he needed a buff since he was the reason I could finally clear the abyss. Fast forward to today and I definitely was wrong, he's already fallen off even with the buffs so at least the buffs kept him relevant for a while.

[@itto_potato]

I’m actually finally getting him on the next banner precisely for my geo team 😅 (I’m missing a third unit for Gorou’s buff) and maybe for Wanderer hyper carry. So even though he’s not as strong or versatile as other characters I think he’s still a great choice for people who will use him a lot in a particular team.

[@Illusion517]

You may think Zhongli is slipping, but he is still in the top 10 most used characters for spiral abyss and is probably even more popular for casual play. He still fills a niche that makes him viable on every single team in the game that does not require all 4 slots or already has a dependable shielder. He's also one of if not the most casual friendly characters in the game, being beloved by the community for negating almost all damage except for an avoidable instance from rare enemies. Zhongli will be viable until the day shields are no longer useful or there are elemental shielders that rival him in simplicity and efficacy.

[@shemage5932]

Venti only fell off because of Kazuha, not because he's as weak as old Zhongli was.

[@f.b.iagent3971]

@@shemage5932 not at all, he’s not as weak as old Zhongli, however he’s definitely the weakest archon character as he’s the only specific one that doesn’t work in every situation. Kazuha isn’t “Better” than Venti, he’s arguably “Better” than Sucrose but he’s very different to Venti and they’re both useful in different situations

[@kritin2855]

On one hand I like it when devs recognizes a genuine issue in their game but on the other hand, I’m scared at the thought of how much the community could force the devs’ hands regardless if they were valid or not.

[@no_dojo8056]

Understandable, I've heard about devs scrapping a lot of things in their games (whether it be story, gameplay or other) in order to cater to their audience instead of going with their guts. Heck, we see it with movies these days as studios like Disney try to take the safe route in order to appease investors. But by doing that, the result is most often underwhelming

[@silverclik]

​@@no_dojo8056 It seems like you reside in a parallel universe where Disney aimed to satisfy its audience, which contrasts with the reality in our universe. Companies like Disney have not only disregarded their audiences but also manipulated aspects of race and history, attributing failures to the audience and even accusing them of racism... etc.

[@no_dojo8056]

@@silverclik Noted. Though despite the formula being different, the result in the end is the same. The story is underwhelming, and the original writers who created the scripts for movies that could've been a hit in movie theaters are suddenly changed and in most cases completely re-written by a different person since it could be "to risky" to put it simply. No idea what the higher ups are thinking in that aspect. As for games and such, the higher ups are technically us, the audience. Personally I feel like we have much more influence in how a game turns out by submitting suggestions and such or just spouting nonsense on the internet.

[@Neloch4]

@@no_dojo8056 the way they called you delusional, i cant lol But anyway, this was years ago and he's the only character they've touched. Deyah's burst canceled by jumping is "intended", Yoimiya's arrows getting blocked by Hilichurl weapons is "intended". i promise you, Mihoyo doesn't actually care about what their community thinks, especially regarding character viability, and especially outside of the CN fandom. Artifact loadouts pleaaase pleaaaase

[@silverclik]

@@Neloch4 It was less of an insult, more of a joke.

[@poppythecat454]

I love Zhongli. I don't have him in the game because I don't use geo. I'm just scared that I will pull for him, never build him but just have him as a moral support 😅

[@teinfoongwong2248]

ZL isnt only used in geo. he is a universal defence unit (the best defence unit), you can plop him in any team and not take a single damage

[@RitinhaGE]

You don’t get zhongli for geo you get zhongli because he has an indestructible shield that makes dodging unnecessary. You can fit zhongli in to every single team in the game and the fact that he’s geo means he’s not going to interfere with any of the reactions which is a massive pro

[@Kaimax61]

Who effing pulls Zhongli for his Geo? Lmao XD I pulled zhongli from day 1, He was easily usable on any kind of team and makes any challenge easy back then. Like It made Ganyu mains so potent because they can now just stay still and charge shot without worry of interuption.

[@Neo-Queenserenityt2l]

I pulled Zhongli for 3 reason, I really liked his design, I needed a better shielder because ngl Noelle's shield sucks ass and because I spent money on his ass to get him home 😂 also because his VA voices Hawkmoth in Miraculous and I'm a fan of that series

[@mapol8088]

@@Kaimax61 as a ganyu main, I WILL PULL FOR HIM THIS RERUN! i swear that on ganyu's horns, honestly its been a year after i got ganyu and im Fucking DONE getting blown away by enemies, getting my charge atk cancelled because of some bullsh*t enemy, i decided i shall not suffer anymore.😡😡

[@Leon-yg5gm]

they didnt change venti, but they changed the mobs so that his ult didnt work on a lot of them. in the start, venti's ult could basically infinite cc the game.

[@imokay6395]

ok one of the main problem that i remember is 1. his hold e doesnt make a pillar, only a shield (which makes energy particles v scarce) 2. his shield was MUCH weaker 3. his pillar didnt make particles on every pulse 4. his petrify was much shorter (when this is like his main niche) 5. stagger res was lower 6. oh right no elemental shred 🙏

[@Kellexyz]

11:02 they didn't change venti, but they change the enemies, same argument as freeze being weak now cause the boss aren't freezeable, venti when it works it works really good.

[@apoorvjoshi2383]

Nope, not a dps. Zhongli is a shield bot support with some burst dps potential. Zhongli as a burst dps actually carries through early AR content, as he gives unbreakable shield nad the multipliers on his burst are just crazy. The moment you get geo traveller(if you dont have any other geo character for resonance), just go out with him and keep dropping meteors. I mean, his burst cost is so low. His burst multipliers are so high. For early game content, he does feels like a god, that can protect and attack at the same time. Sadly as the enemies start to hit harder or require to be hit harder, you are forced to choose, and this is where his kit takes a turn as his element, holds him back from displaying his full burst dps potential. And this is also where he kind of gets reduced to a shielder with some occassional damage in(which is not bad ngl). So yep, his kit is wholly directed towards support, to an extent that i use his burst animation to delay dying/heal myself while i m getting mobbed by shit tonne of monsters in abyss. plus the fact that he freezes the enemies for a few seconds just allows for even more breathing room. Then there is an artifact set that he can basically proc quite easily, and he can be a good favonious holder. Sure he can do damage if you wanna build him for burst dps, but then again, you can build barbara as charge attack dps too if you want to, it doesnt make barbara a dps character, she is still a healer with huge dps potential(if anyone new here wanna see what i m talking about, just search charge attack barbara and you ll see some clips that ll change your opinions about church of favonious' Clerical staff..rosaria isnt the only one capable of slitting throats...). Lmao i ended up ranting soo much, because i love zhongli. He was my first five star and he stayed on my team...for like...forever. I retired him only recently from my go to team, when i guess dendro came about. and he still is staple in a lot of my teams and in abyss.

[@BDaTDaSADaNDaIME]

The best build for him will always be Hybrid build..give him crits and geo goblet instead of HPs he does minimum 100k with every burst while providing good shield with 30k hp

[@JimRaynor2001]

@@BDaTDaSADaNDaIME So true. This is what I build Zhongli and he's super strong!

[@gammaray1583]

Zhongli was my first five star too, and a staple in all my teams until I decided to retire him a little so I could learn to dodge better 😅. He’s now a hybrid build and I can dodge, win win. He’s definitely great for early game but you can become very reliant on his shield

[@Mgaming61]

@@BDaTDaSADaNDaIME based take. I'm also trying to do that build, but for now shield it is!

[@Celestine_78]

I pulled him on accident on his first ever banner, I was just random pulling for Zhongli I don't regret it because he is good now, I had no idea this controversy even happened

[@wuixxxxeee]

I felt like it was fine when it came out, the shield meta wasn’t a thing at this time so that’s why people didn’t understand him. Now it’s OP and that’s also fine. The reason why he got buffed was because of Chinese patriotism.

[@lapisincognito]

Even if it's not because of the patriotism they still need to buff him because he's an archon. All the archons have to be op not mid

[@Sychyx]

​@@lapisincognitotell that to focalors

[@Kaimax61]

@@lapisincognito But he was OP even before the buff. Meta slavers just want him to do 100k damage out of the box, when he was focused to be the best shielder.

[@blazikenfury8852]

He wasn't OP and neither is now, his current state is fine where he brings down the damage of your team over using anyone else but gives you comfort. If you build him for shielding then he wouldn't have had 150% resistance to all elements so his shield would be more than half as weak and without HP scaling and his shield's resistance reduction he wouldn't do any damage either.

[@blazikenfury8852]

@@Kaimax61 Bro his shield then wasn't even that good, he was good in neither role. He still doesn't do that much damage but his shield is fine.

[@FaiGal]

watching this after getting into a heated argument about Zhongli versus Venti leaving the archon team when Furina joins. I said I'd still keep Venti on the team for the crowd control and hyperbloom and all the Zhongli mains attacked me saying he's absolutely useless. I'll never stop being sacred of Zhongli mains

[@mookiess]

Im sorry you got attacked like that :( I have both and love them to death, and I think it’s unfair to compare the two when they do different roles which gains preference depending on your playstyle. Zhongli for the big shield and geo resonance and Venti for effective CC and more variety in reactions. I don’t use Venti a lot since i have Kazoo but he’s still valuable if you don’t have someone like Kazoo to CC. Plus, having zhongli off would exponentially improve your dodging skills. Being a chronic zhongli user since 1.5 I’ve stunted my ability to evade lol. So as a zhongli main, I say to pick whoever fits best for you 😤

[@rainiplaysgames3545]

zhongli main here. Archons can and WILL be phased out by hoyo, including zhongli. most situations, 4star shields esp dendro shields easily outshine him these days so he's mostly clinging to that party spot based on how much the player likes him or comfort and not meta reasons. there will be 7 archons by the time genshin is all out so 3 archons are gonna lose the musical chairs game lol. i think shield-bot zhongli is gonna be less and less relevant due to all the great 4star and 5star alternatives we've been getting in sumeru. he's no longer the only choice and a lot of zhongli enjoyers have probably been burned by the whole 'dps-loss' arguments. in the end, it's really just a personal choice.

[@loif93]

And for the release of Raiden, people were asking Hoyo to buff her for some reason. Maybe they expected Hoyo to cave in because the whole Zhongli situation created a precedent.

[@RKNancy]

Nobody asked Hoyo to buff Raiden. The Devs made sure that Beidou didn't work with her by adding some technicality to her burst, essentially killing the whole meta community's hype and in turn turning the whole community against the Devs. It still is one of the most scummiest things Hoyo did to Beidou, all because Kujou Sara didn't hold a candle to Beidou at C0.

[@Kaimax61]

@@RKNancy Nah fuck the beidou players.

[@rozee8516]

@@RKNancyobjectively wrong

[@tama4997]

i think people underestimate the severity of his "supportability" before zhongli got the buff. imagine if it today time (patch 4.0) no one gonna use him! he dont have decrease the Elemental and physical RES (btw this is the one that make him relatable to this day) while he casting up for shield (his main purpose) he could be disturb tbh it sadge what happen to dehya but i dont want to compare her situation with zhongli (i mean zhongli is an archon, china inspired nation archon bruh) and even in her worst scenario at least what make her going is she is a pyro (copium)

[@akirayuki6275]

I might be wrong about it, but I think his Hold E didn't place a construct either, so you had to chose between energy or protection, or just place the pillar, go to other characters while waiting for Cooldown and then activate the shield. To be fair tho, Zhongli's ability to resonate with other constructs is to this day one of the most unique interactions in the game, I wish they did something about it. Constructs per se are often not that great, a lot of them get easily destroyed, the usually don't do particularly high damage (can't proc reactions), and the range of their AoE (when resonating with Zhongli pillar, and obviously the pillar itself) is quite small. They can also often be an obstacle to tour movement (I can't recall how many times I climbed on Zhongli Pillar by mistake). With this many drawbacks I don't think there's any reason to not make it stronger. On top of that, having pseudo quadratic scaling would help a lot since that would favor using more characters capable of placing construct, while also having a team where the better support and grouper is Venti since Kazuha doesn't have the best grouping and Geo can't be Swirled for his DMG bonus

[@Ria-vj3ch]

They also had to eventually buff Zhongli from all the controversy cause he is the poster boy for Liyue which is supposed to be China 😂

[@qtchae]

omg I really love Zhongli, he will always be my savior in the game! I have fun building him as shielder and as geo dps. I only need another one constellation to C6 him and I will be really happy as a geo daddy haver 🥰🥰

[@GSYMdaseatistaken]

I remember someone mentioning that Zhongli Leaks back in 1.0 helped fuel the fire cuz people saw how Beta Zhongli performed better than his released ver. I was there and I was honestly hesitant to pull for Zhongli myself😅

[@xceeda4539]

I was fustrated i got c1at that time haha. I was thinking of building pity. I won 50/50 early and i think i got him again in next 20 pulls

[@RitinhaGE]

I blame this and the fact that everyone complained that inazuma was “too hard” when it was released in 2.0 so much that they had to nerf the overworld mobs in inazuma as the reason why we will never have challenging content in Genshin and why the overworld is so easy. I assume they originally intended to make each region harder and harder like many games, but so many people complained about inazuma so they just nerfed all the challenge out of the overworld to not upset the players. Still love the game though but it’s understandable why the company would think people just want easy content when they ask for characters to be stronger and mobs to be weaker

[@FinnManusia]

Remember when Childe boss got nerf? It still hard tho.

[@RitinhaGE]

@@FinnManusia child boss is the easiest with devalin. People just didn’t have good teams back then because it was 1.1 but the community has been telling hoyoverse since the beginning that they do not want hard content this is why I don’t understand why some people complain so much about it. The community has been saying they want easy casual game for a long time

[@hdmaad]

Y'all ask for harder content and then complained when they put 2 waves of consecrated beasts in the Spiral Abyss lol they can never win with y'all

[@RitinhaGE]

@@hdmaad exactly the majority of people do not actually want harder content

[@ajiroclovertail992]

​@@hdmaadYeah it's fine if it's abyss but over world being too hard is just tiring and tedious

[@adorkablerandomness7210]

The first day of his release, I managed to get him on a ten pull and was so excited. But when I was looking to see how excited other people were about Zhongli I was so confused as to why everyone was hating him. I was perfectly happy with him cause he kept the rest of my party safe. Although I was happy when they buffed him, cause in my eyes it only made a good character better.... but I had no idea that they buffed him a second time, that's the first I'm hearing of it😅

[@SOUL_0033]

The only worst thing I felt was they removed the taunt effect from Ayato's E 😭

[@sneakypanda81731]

For Liyue, it was Zhongli. For Inazuma, it was Kokomi. For Sumeru, it's Dehya. I wonder who will it be for Fontaine now that the region is out... I have a feeling it's either Navia or Wriothesley. I was never a fan of Geo as damage ever since the start of Genshin. I only see it as "shield provider" so I use Zhongli to CRYSTALLIZE the element the enemy has (or if they don't have an element, I apply it first) with his press skill. Kokomi with -95% crit rate made the community RAGE because they want characters that crit so that they deal a lot of damage, completely ignoring the fact that she is a HEALER where you don't need crits to heal. "So why can Barbara crit and she can't?“ Can Barbara heal more when she crit? Dehya... This comment will be SUPER LONG if I talk about Dehya so PASS. I cannot wait for the new community rage and I'll be readying my popcorn and coke for it.

[@soaringspirits2267]

I've always noticed with Hoyo's bad build, Dehya still seems to do pretty great damage with what is a pretty average build. Sure she isn't 'meta' atm, but she is super good, like Yae, for aoe puro application, afk boss fights, damage sponging, and dragonspine exploration. Her and Beidou are my two favorite girl characters (I platonically Ship them and wish they met), and honestly it makes me sad to dee so much shade. Ehy do you think she's good? Would be very interested to know.

[@soaringspirits2267]

@spidebot3045 Totally valid!!! I myself am just figuring out builds now, ans have learned that big, or small damage, if it's fast, is great. This means I have been able to throw together half baked teams in over and under, and call it good. The viability of her dps in general is up for debate, and I still want to.know why people consider her good, but mostly just appreciate her for what she is. She's not the best from what I have seen. Not the worst. But I still love her.

[@FinnManusia]

Monstadt: Eula Reason: No rerun banner for a long time.

[@RavenUwU605]

Oh it’s gonna be Navia 100%, she’s Geo… that’s it

[@sneakypanda81731]

@@soaringspirits2267 I mean, I have C6 Beidou, C1 Miko and Dehya (all of them triple crowned) so who ever you questioning me if I think she's good, I think my answer is yes haha

[@shoko4690]

It’s funny that akashot uploaded video about zhongli one day before he got a announcement from the livestream

[@hallelion]

There's a reason why Zhongli's my eternal party member...

[@DarkSeraph]

Same

[@blazikenfury8852]

For all the casuals who don't see smaller intricaciesof the game, and think he didn't need the buff and was OP even beforehand. If you compare Zhongli prebuff to the latest 4 star shielder Kirara: 1. His shield against non dendro/geo damage would be onpar/very slightly higher than her(including KIrara's shield stacking) 2. Both have 100% uptime 3. Zhongli pillar isn't reliable to hit and generate energy, and you don't even generate pillar on shielding. While Kirara generates particles by hitting enemies once. 4. Kirara applies dendro for aggravate teams, and can be used as 4th slot in a lot of Nilou bloom/Hyperbloom/Burgeon teams and they do self dendro damage which Kirara protects more against. Zhongli's reaction Crystalize is useless as multiple shields take dmg at same time. 5. Kirara gives team buffs with cons(being easier to get as a 4 star), Zhongli didn't have 20% res down before buff. 6. Both have overworld stuff. 7. Without his HP scaling, Kirara has a higher multiplier than Zhongli on her burst and can use spread to increase it even more. Still think he was OP?

[@mireknycz]

Yes he was. Your comparison is trash cause it doesnt take into account the content and difficulty of the game at that time. Would he be op now in his original state? Hell no. But back then he was. Is it good that they buffed him? Sure. Was it worth it to send death threats and shit over it? Not really.

[@blazikenfury8852]

@@mireknycz The game's difficulty hasn't changed that much, content/characters in Genshin don't experience heavy powercreep. And what do you want? For him to have stayed like that and become trash now in the current time? For players who are pulling him in 3 weeks from now to feel like they're wasting their pulls on a bad unit?

[@mireknycz]

If you could read I never said the changes were a bad thing. Saying that the game didn't get more difficult since 1.1 is a straight up lie as most people weren't ever max world lvl at that time. And powercreep definitely does happen even though it's not horrible. And Zhongli was never going to become obsolete or worthless. He is basically the only character in the game that allows you to just play without worrying about taking damage if you recast his shield whenever it was off cd. That never changed, he just got some quality of life changes and a bit more damage + team buffs but his main draw is still as it was on release.

[@blazikenfury8852]

@@mireknycz He got 150% shield absorption on all elements instead of only having 250% on Geo, also Geo resonance got buffed to give shield strength, what do you mean his main draw(his shield) stayed the same? Also the only 'powercreep' on content which happens mainly affects the abyss, which most casuals don't care heavily about? And if you want to bring Abyss into the picture many of the older units still hold up till today. Childe, Ganyu, Venti, Xiao are very good in current abyss 1st half, Klee was pretty good in 3.7 abyss 2nd half, Hu Tao still holds up as pretty much best single target carry(except hyperbloom

[@mireknycz]

@@blazikenfury8852 Ofc the shield got buffed I didnt claim otherwise. The point was that at that time the shield he had was more than enough. It almost never got broken for me. If that stayed the same with no changes it would for sure get broken now tho because mob damage wildly increased. But there was never a time where his shield was lacking.

[@sofarsogood8680]

This the only time we saw Mihiyo buff character's skill and number after released. And also on how his pillar skill works. Before, his pilllar and shield work differently

[@Err0r_404.]

venti was overpowered at the start because his ult was working literally on every mob that existed that time, until they added weight or something to mobs, he was enjoyable to explore, now every second mob resists his ult

[@utsubyo]

to be fair even now when you ask theorycrafters and people that are deep into meta you'll rarely if at all hear that zhongli is on top of the meta, before those buffs he was straight up dodo garbage and now he's good at best but not that gamechanging, big thing for him is how comfy and reliable he is but that's about it, there's only a few teams where he's the best option and not even by a large margin

[@Defi4nc3s1]

Pre-Rifthounds he was almost in every possible team. Even now as full Geo team, he has less spotlight, which is insane. Sumeru really ate the Geo element as a whole.

[@utsubyo]

@@Defi4nc3s1 he COULD be used in every possible team because he's comfy and consistent but that doesnt mean that he's been the best option there, he's bis for yoimiya, xiao, itto and melt ganyu, that's about it, in other teams he's a pure comfort pick and a downgrade to other options, rifthounds and dendro has nothing to do with that, he's been alright at best all along

[@Defi4nc3s1]

@@utsubyo Maybe you misunderstood me, but that is alright. For Dendro, I was meaning, that his slot can be changed with someone else. I've mention rifthounds since thats when corrosion came and when Kokomi was more priority pick in the teams (you can still die with shield on). Personally, I'm using him on every possible team, since he is my first 5* and fav, so i'm not neglecting his value overall.

[@deltaspecies1697]

I was there. I witnessed these events first hand and gotta say it was a freking shitstorm lol. Especially the behaviour of some CCs toward the tc community for pointing out how bad zhongli was.

[@spiderdude2099]

8:05 The problem is, people want assurance that they’re spending wisely. There’s no roadmap, so that led to rampant leaks in a kind of “fine, I’ll do it myself” moment. And Beta tests are the closest thing we have to meta viability indicators pre-release. So….yeah, people don’t want anything to change from beta so they can make long term plans for their wishing pre release.

[@megumin9967]

TBH Dehya could've been better if her Elemental Burst Procs Xinqui and Yelan's Skills. She would've been a good pyro counter-equivalent of Childe.

[@RitinhaGE]

She works with ayato or kokomi. She works with hydro traveler. There are more hydro supports. She also works well with dendro

[@megumin9967]

​​​​​@@RitinhaGEYeah she works with Ayato, but do you use Ayato to make Dehya better? Kokomi has a slower hydro proc making Dehya's fast Burst hit so much potential. Dunno yet for Hydro Traveler, but I would rather have my Traveler remain as Dendro. Making Dehya's Burst unable to trigger on-hits make her totally make her lose so much potential - like triggering Hydro on-hits (Yelan & Xinqui), Electro on-hits (Raiden, Fischl, Beidou). There's so much potential if she was just given that opportunity.

[@RitinhaGE]

@@megumin9967 if you use Kokomo’s burst and apply hydro first it works just fine. The problem is that everyone wants Genshin characters to be cookie cutter and that they all work the same they want all pyro characters to just sync perfectly with XQ and yelan. When if you apply hydro first to the enemies Dehya works just fine. And I do use my ayato with Dehya on burgeon team. Apply dendro with nahida put ayato burst to apply hydro and make cores and then Dehya burst explodes them. It works just fine. As long as hydro either gets applies first or is an AOE hydro application rather than an auto attack like XQ it works just fine.

[@ziebus904]

She wouldnt

[@MysticisM730]

​@spidebot3045I was thinking the same thing, both just need hp, but zhongli have that extra 20% res decrease, and dehya's E need you to stay in the circle, AND zhongli ult is way faster than dehya, can't even say dehya's ult is burst dmg at this point.

[@tye3630]

4:45 at 1.2 Diluc was one of the best DPS, until Genshin experienced a big inflation (release of Xiao, Ganyu, Hu Tao)

[@tye3630]

10:53 Venti was the best support at that time because there were no heavy enemies. Venti became bad after 2.0 new enemies’ tenacity(weight) increase, so Venti can’t pull any enemies up anymore

[@rivan660]

I remember the first time his banner was released I didn't think about meta and everything else I just wanted him to farm rocks🤣

[@ejoltz4915]

There's still one huge problem about Zhongli Vortex vanquisher

[@NoNameCherry]

Glad that when I pulled him he was already buffed up. Love the guy. 🥰🥰🥰 Loved him more with Tartaglia, and even more when I found out he was voiced by Keith. Yes. I melted.

[@cthpng9437]

4:58 I will confirm that I did say this exact thing about Dehya, practically word for word in some parts 🤣🤣🤣

[@blacksongoku312]

Patiently waiting for phase 2 for papa zhongli. After hearing his majestic singing voice just now, how could i not pull on his banner 😂😂😂

[@ziebus904]

I hate alhaitham arguement "oh he was nerfed" and then week later they buffed him to same state he was before💀

[@soaringspirits2267]

Never noticed. New player, Al main since the day i started (day after his release), and enevr noticed a damage difference.

[@bencegergohocz5988]

For ever idiotic arguement about beta complaining being baseless since Alhaitham is good, you just need to bring up Dehya geting nerfed... Also, any of use who were involved with the Alhaitham discussion only taked about his power in relation to the top characters. Noone ever claimed he was a Dori or whatnot.

[@Tsirkon]

why is it that each of the archons ended up getting beaten by some random kids like they're literal gods... youre telling me some random teen girl who likes cooking is more powerful than a god??

[@hdmaad]

After playing star rail, I now noticed that there is a problem in Genshin power scaling. Archon being support gameplay-wise while they are the nation's god is weird. Also their playstyle doesn't match their lore

[@tyler60904]

This sentiment is what i saw on kokami's release too. But iv been using her since release, and she has always been good. She got better with the new artifacts, but it seems like everyone wants every character to be a dps monster instead of having actual utility and unique play styles.

[@Mr_Phantom880]

Just got my first 5 star at AR43. Won the 50/50 twice in a row and got c1 Yelan with Venti cupping my cheeks on his statue. May the winds bless your travels!

[@doggypi1532]

After the buff he was finally worth being called an Archon ~

[@lonewolfjedi493osswfan]

Zhongli was my first 5 star and I still use him on my main team, mostly as a shielder

[@richardbednarski55]

Keqing placed at the 3rd bottom tier??? Holy fuck, she's my main DPS since 1.0 for me. I got Venti, then got Keqing from losing 50/50. At first, she's using Black Sword since i build her focused with Physical Damage dealer. After i got Keqing for several times, i started focusing her into Electro user and using Lion's Roar since her C3 will regenerate energy if deals Electro dmg to enemies, making her very easy to use Burst attack repeatedly. Now i got PJC, her final burst dmg now deal around 25k-28k

[@soaringspirits2267]

That's amazing!

[@kuyarence]

Don't forget that the Keqing from the vid was pre-Dendro patch. Right now she's powerful with a Quicken Team.

[@scarfbit7354]

What they didn't realize was zhongli was an immovable mountain even before the buff.

[@galaxycrystal2503]

The thing with Zhongli shield is, it did not gave buff to other character, even 4 star shielder give one, Diona with Stamina Reduction and Move Speed, Xinyan with Physical Dmg increase and Noelle is heal. While Zhongli only have shield. Diona literally have basically zero cooldown if you have Sacrificial Bow, that what make her a greater shielder at the time, plus heal. So he having those 20% RES Shred is literally the life saver for him as a character.

[@MandaiPL]

I'm 100% pulling Zhongli on his rerun

[@meikisaragi1445]

i remember this war, except i'm a zhongli skipper att so I'm mostly chilling in the span of this war

[@DavidBaronStevens]

i played him before he he released. he was already good. required a bit of skill to use, but he was good and the whole controversy was because people didn't know how to build him. so when he got buffed, i was like, "ok, he didn't need this, but i'll take it!"

[@dragnar4743]

Na, diluc wasn't just among top 3, but he was the best 5 star dps back then. Because the game was new and abyss was having cryo enemies and Diluc felt amazing. Although there was also childe, but maybe people weren't using xiangling like they use now. People still used crescent pike xiangling back then. Oh, yeah.. before zhongli buff, there were players who used him as phy dps with crescent pike XD

[@michaliserodotou8918]

Yey I’m so excited when this happens all over again but with Neuvillete!

[@robertmelconde8151]

as a old zhongli user i use physical build on him at that time and very useful the annoying buff on him was his pillar

[@they4852]

i have zhongli but i m noylt dissapoint at all because he only one strong sheild

[@arjomomo9103]

I was late for two years for genshin so it was interesting seeing this videos. They actually felt like reading lores😂

[@spyrothetimelord]

My two points (halfway through the video but I don't want to forget) 1. The comment "people discovered beta stuff changes" whatever the person said can't actually be applied here. They have the disclaimer that the it is not indicative of final product, but the version shown in the livestream is not considered beta anymore. It's hard to explain from a marketing perspective but basically once he's showcased, yes changes can be made (especially with that disclaimer! It's very key here) but beta is specifically before the official release/showcase. He was no longer being tested at that point. That said, the disclaimer being there would make it extremely hard to make this case except the fact that you CAN get that long of petrification with C4, so it's not that they changed it (from the perspective of the general audience), it's that they chose to show off a C4 ability in what is supposed to be the base kit showcase. I'm not sure if he was like that at C0 in beta, but that's likely the real reason that had to be directly addressed. 2. Dehya situation is both the same and different. Her kit screams support but her weapon and burst imply she's supposed to be a dps. I'm totally fine with her being a support (tbh I want more support 5* because they're pretty cool), but arguably they did falsely advertise her. In the livestream, they specifically said her pyro proc during skill in the field would be great for reactions. The actual video was accurate (showing that it was bad LOL) but the fact they said it was good when by design choice her ICD makes it not good could technically leave room for argument. However no one cared to complain properly or hyv genuinely still didn't care. As someone who loves Dehya and sees extremely easy ways to improve her kit without making her too op, her situation hurts not just from a player standpoint but from a marketing standpoint as well

[@TRPDK]

I remember Tectone was like "I don't know why you guys are complaining. Zhongli isn't that bad, he's good" while rocking a C6 Zhongli. I never watch any of his video from him again since that day.

[@mireknycz]

Tectone and Mtashed are just living memes. Pretty unfunny ones too.

[@ziebus904]

Tectone is Just brainded whale

[@Defi4nc3s1]

Yea he is so sarcastic when running C6R5 that is insane. ;/

[@ziebus904]

@@Defi4nc3s1 this bitch was always a hipocrite idiot

[@luminous3558]

Tbf even at C6 he wasnt good. All his cons are pretty bad.

[@mamrdevpraze]

Zhong daddy was build like tank when that age people DPS chasing big numbers. I remember people build Zhong as battery for Noelle perma ULT build.

[@danielferrieri7434]

Zhongli and Dehya Shaking hands to: Controversial at Day One

[@kyoeix814]

ahh i remember this, back in the days diluc always on top, it's understandable because at that time we only had a few 5*.

[@Kaito-1412.]

As someone who’s played since the start, the war was brutal you have no idea

[@Soshiaircon91]

Zhongli is the actual Archon that did his job, he went to Da Wei at Mihoyo HQ and told them to not just buff him but Geo as a whole. The rest of the Archons did not stand up to the tyranny of Da Wei.

[@luminous3558]

Nahida went and made Electro playable by creating Dendro.

[@totallymage6507]

as a OG player during the pandemic I was pulling for Childe but got Zhongli instead, I did not perused building him coz id was just so awful that they are the same talent and character level with my Amber but Amber can nuke mobs better than Zhongli. But now after the Geo buff where every time a Geo infused character receives damage (Geo shield) the regen energy and HP(scales with max HP), making Noelle an OP Support/Tank/DPS or more like an all around house maid that can carry your party.

[@NoForksGiven]

I will never be angry about buffs. I hate when mechanics are underpowered in games, even if I personally don't use them. I may not be a Xinyan, Aloy, Amber, Lisa, Traveller, Candace or Razor main, but I'd still love it if they got Zhongli levels of buffs. When Bennet, Kazuha and Raiden are in the game, I think it's fair to say the bar has been raised

[@usmanya5110]

don't forget nahida she also set the bar high.

[@scorpx3790]

8:33 Star Rair players will remember about beta Bronya. My girl was too good for a base banner character 🗣🔥

[@thatfirstdude]

Funny thing about him I got him when her first came out AND I HAD NO IDEA HE WAS BAD UNTIL HE WAS BUFFED

[@brandonatherton]

My whole arguement back in the day is he's literally an Archon, and he's that god of war. Dude should have been slaughtering people, and they gave him the slickest auto attack animation, and he was just straight up back. With the units that were available, and the understand of the game at that time, it was just hard to work him in to a team and not feel like he was holding them back.

[@Hikarushinyi]

When the first time his trailer come out i already knew he is a 5* support not meant to be a full DPS character🤷 in the the trailer he does said "i do not wish for dominion / defend our safe harbor" already confirmed he is a support character, it just that so many peoples misunderstood the trailer😑

[@usmanya5110]

yeah that trailer is misleading as hell. though even then he still deserved that damn buff.

[@luminous3558]

Well pre buff he was a F tier support and a D tier DPS. Bad at both but way worse as a support. Crescent pike carried him hard.

[@Borovski213]

Imagine getting a buff in Genshin. Right? Right?!

[@LeanneKrv]

I played genshin since 1.1 and was there when he's released. I was hyped but didn't really mind him being underwhelming. I was surprised to see the outrage and found it unnecessary. But after the buff, I realized that he is indeed plays so much nicer now. I didn't know how convenient it was to not having to manage his skill because holding it only casts shield with no pillar. To be honest, I didn't really pay attention to anything else apart from that because nothing really feels like it's changing in his kit. Regardless I'm still glad that they buffed him. But still, they need to rework Geo entirely.

[@Ryusola]

I rolled Zhongli because I liked him, I didn't even look at the drama until weeks after it was a big mess.

[@Kastor774]

8:10 I saw acquaintances DOOMPOST Silver Wolf and Kafka and look at them now. Leakbrain is sadly incurable and terminal.

[@xheenalyn]

Naofumi Iwatani: "I feel you brother Zhong, you're not alone bro. Let them haters hate. idc"

[@dighad3824]

me munching popcorn with my c2 zhongli while whole china went livid back in 1.1 (yes i spent all my primos for zhongli c2 because he's hot)

[@hasagisama9514]

This video has more views than the original one

[@superqaxclub]

As the one of day 1 Zhongli haver, the problem is no interupt resist while holding Skill, in abyss with hydro + electro slimes, I get interrupted all the time by electro charged when trying to hold skill.

[@Fran_5]

Being completly honest, I feel the buffs were for the better. Looking back, his biggest problem I feel was that his kit was boring as hell. He just made a circle of geo damage around him. The pole gave him utility outside of fighting as well as a specific gameplay goal that made him more fun to play.

[@nickarooroo6397]

God, I remember the Alhaitham crap. He got nerfed and people were screaming he was gonna be so bad. I was literally lmao.

[@onirosis298]

talking about deyha in this video i got her c1 on the yelan banner hard pity bruh the first time i got her was early with qiqi in the same 10 pull

[@3nowStorm]

I was also there for this whole thing and yeah I agreed he needed a buff but I did not care nearly as much as some people. Like seriously they were going insane.

[@Farisss11]

bruh i lived through this and boy you will never want to live through this anymore, even in twitter i have like 20++ replies straight debate about his shield only

[@Defi4nc3s1]

One thing to mention on that is on his, I believe is his "3rd buff, when Tenacity came out. Don't get me wrong, there already were sets with "shield increase".

[@knightofwisdom8851]

Akashot might be the best person to cover the controversies in genshin community frfr

[@ahrisse6528]

If I remember correctly, Zhongli's E hold before is just like Geo Traveller's E and not really a shield. Or maybe I remember it wrong but I remember summoning two pillars back then and hold to position. 🤣 It was on his first rerun that the hold E became a shield I guess.

[@shuckleuser4285]

yea when zhongli came out diluc was actually an S tier option there wasnt many other good dpses

[@JustineAndrew]

As a person who had a potato phone in the past, having him is a blessing 🤣

[@kamicokrolock]

" why would you be worried about a buff, it's a buff.." anyone remember the Yae turret targeting "buff"?

[@skygoomysteatime3967]

Broskie called the HoYO-Lab icon "discord frog"💀

[@TuhinSarkar-gu3vy]

Not just that , but even Tencent took the opportunity to humiliate MHY . Back then they were in bad waters with each other , Tencent wanted to buy MHY and they refused to . Tencent employees humiliated MHY employees defending Zhongli and they were regarded as heroes by the Chinese community lol . Even the Zhongli mains discord had a Havria mains channel due to the Zhongli situation (Glory to the salt goddess) lol

[@aldyzero6676]

Tencent is pathetic and salty

[@starmaker9804]

I mean without all the shenanigans we when through before, *my man Zhongli would’ve retired earlier even before his “parting”* (So you gotta give credits where the credits is due 👏)

[@Kyle_116]

It's funny that Zhongli was an instance of the community making it clear that something was very bad and needed to be changed, and Mihoyo fixed it... But ever since, the community at large basically takes the shit they're given and refuses to acknowledge the problems.

[@changthe10th84]

I skipped Zhongli on his first run after playing with him in his character quest because I couldn't work out what he was supposed to do (I got him the second time around though!)

[@stunt95hstdt89]

At that time when he got released I literally didnt care about what was happening on all those social platforms. Just imagine happy music with me enjoying my daddy and the game to its fullest. And then one day they buffed him and I was like: "Wa? A Buff? Why though? He's strong enough in my opinion. Mhh guess I'll take it."

[@aoihitori]

Days without Mihoyo Drama: *0* _(zero)_

[@kyse2]

dehya getting frozen and it making u cancel the burst is fine cuz she needs a weakness but they should have gave it more dmg like that weakness if she was doing like 100k to 200k each hit of her burst or something like that the freeze thing would be an ok weakness

[@RTheStoryteller7]

I'm curious about this situation. I kept hearing from the community that Zhongli's situation is soo bad that the Chinese goverment is involved to told Hoyo to buff Zhongli. I'm genuinely curious about that claim of a story. (since y'know Zhongli is an Archon based off nation of China, and having him weak is kinda a rough look *being* a Chinese developer)

[@Kaimax61]

all the government stuff is bullshit.

[@Defi4nc3s1]

I've heard that played a bigger part in this, than the reddit posts.

[@lenaotaku5905]

I take that as a big W and achievement of the community for zhongli. And I'm glad for all of them.

[@z-kaizer0919]

Zhongli was my first 5 star character and he has never fail me not even once when he came out yes he was a bit weak but he was a good character I did kinda make him a Physical for some reason then later I made him a support and he was a beast the shield is dam strong

[@awinkingowl7608]

Dehya situation was much worse. Zhongli drama was crazy because the community had a different view of the game. Venti is to this day broken its just that specifically in abyss mihoyo makes an effort to keep him weak by introducing enemies that cant be grouped, while he himself never got nerfed, the game got changed to nerf him instead because he was that broken :)

[@luminous3558]

Nope. Zhongli was worse than Dehya. Dehya today is seen as worse because we have so many more units. She at least produces energy and applies pyro. Zhongli didn't make energy unless you compromised your rotation or pulled C2 and he actively interfered with your reactions. They both fail at doing what they were meant to but ZL was way more broken and useless. His arguable best role was as a Tazer driver with Beidou, Fischl and Xingqiu.

[@lacytaylor1501]

I pulled Zhongli cause i was just collecting male characters in game. I got him and proceeded to drop the game for a number of updates only to come back and play properly. Zhongli was my first permanent 5 star and has pretty much always been in my team so its crazy to see how many people just couldnt stand how he played to the point of getting him buffed like this