Brazing vs TIG Welding for Bicycle Frames

[@velowelder6333]

Fillet brazing is a dying art for sure. When I got hired for a high end tandem bicycle manufacturer it was my ability to fillet braze that got me the job, they had been trying to hire someone for 2 years with no luck. Learn both, it comes in handy especially bicycle frame building.

[@felixokeefe]

I would add that one potential dissadvantage of TIG welding is the subtraction zone which happens next to the weld bead. If the tubes you're using are already very thin this subtraction zone caused by hot semi liquid steel being drawn towards the weld bead can cause a weak area to form right next to your weld.

[@elimarc3891]

Don't stop teaching dude. Youre great at it! Better then my university teacher at least. I got a crack and got nothing to fix it. Im studying a way to just get it from falling apart. If any on would like to look at it would be greatly appreciated.

[@JeffWagen]

I suggest you to drill a clean hole in every end of the crack, fill it and weld the crack, brazing doesn't work in this case, in case you're thinking about the holes it is to reduce the stress concentration in the area.

[@TandyTerrison]

Dude your channel kicks ass. You've got a video for damn near every question I've ever had about frame building.

[@AndrewCampbell-ut6jk]

As a welder in all forms of welding for over 50 years I think you make some valid points and useful tips for beginners. One point that I would like to elaborate on is that brazing does not have to be a slow operation, many years back bicycle frames had sleeve joints just as you mentioned and showed a picture of. The whole bicycle could be assembled and heated until the braze and flux melted this process could be done as a one off or hundreds of units were sent through an oven. This process is used extensively today in industry. With thin wall tubing the process is reasonably efficient and reduces the effects of localized stress that can be a problem with other forms of joint manufacture, especially if you are using high strength alloys. Low temperature brazing alloys may not require the assembly to undergo further heat treatment. Tig welded mig, gas, or stick joints produce high stress riser points so compensation has to be made to ensure failure does not occur at these joints, this usually means increasing material thickness.

[@KY-zerSOH-zay]

I am very happy, that a guy your age has masterly knowlegde and is able to explain that knowlegde in such a good way. I am happy that craftsmanship is still outa here

[@TechStryker]

Alhamdulillah.. Brother you are the young star of cycle master technology.. I am appreciate your creative activities... May Allah / God bless you

[@shiroshiro00]

For a novice like me, you nailed it thank you

[@peterbedford2610]

I've built two frames with lugs. Silver brazed. It's slow, but the look is beautiful and you can customize a lot.

[@TheGamersRace]

2:57 "Through capillary action it just SCHLUUUURRP..." haha this had me dying.

[@cvspvr]

that's the scientific term

[@jctoth]

I really enjoy your videos. There are couple other advantages that TIG has over brazing that you didn't mention. The first one is that TIG arguably produces a stronger frame because the heat affected zone of the joint is much less. The TIG torch produces rifle like accuracy whereas the brazing torch has more of a shotgun like effect spreading heat into a much larger area. Secondly, all things being equal, the frame that is TIG welded will be lighter than the frame that is brazed as the TIG joints will have less filler material in the completed joint. Keep up the good work Joe.

[@pero2727]

Yes, but also no. I think that TIG (fillet) brazing takes the cake here. The problem with actually welding highly alloyed tubes like these is that when you make a puddle with the base metal you are actually pulling the alloying elements to one place and you are creating a brittle zone there. That is why any weld will always fail and crack right next to the weld. From a metallurgical standpoint welding alloys is a shitstorm. TIG brazing will keep the basemetal the coolest and strongest at the expense of a few extra grams of bronze per frame. We are talking about maybe 30-40g of bronze per frame after the fillets have been filed compared to 10-20g of steel filler wire if TIG welding.

[@jthepickle7]

At 3;00 you showed hard copper pipe. I have successfully welded the fittings of this type of metal, using copper rod and Oxi/Acet. John Chaplain's comment is valid. Torch welding steel is a beautiful thing. Over TIG, you have more control because of the lower temp. and the puddle is really thick (not runny) so there's plenty of time to pull the puddle around and get superb penetration.

[@sswcustomsewing4276]

I agree 100%

[@Nine_883]

I am old. I braze everything. I don’t do aluminum, but they do make aluminum brazing rods for the HVAC industry and others, however it’s very difficult and I have no idea if it would work for bicycles. I have tried it on scrap lawn furniture as an experiment. If it can be done reliably and consistently it’s very difficult. You would need a very good system figured out and lots of practice. Not worth it. The aluminum is hard to read. It will melt long before it would glow red. You really have to braze with an air tip at the most. It just turns to butter under a torch. It’s very hard to repair a melt through. Great info and video.

[@gregriutzel7834]

You've been well schooled. Great work and info!

[@robkunkel8833]

1:19 I haven’t touched a acy-oxy torch in 50 years but that is a damn good bead!

[@woden20]

Exactly my words as I was thinking it you was saying it. Soldering / Brazing even with the plumbers example exactly my thoughts. I'd never fillet braze not enough surface area for my liking.

[@SeymourSunshine]

I don't think that the amount of material in the brazed joint adds much to the strength. In fact, I think you'll find that the less braze there is in the joint (ie the closer the sliding fit), the stronger it is. The fillet is there to spread the stresses. As I recall, the molten braze diffuses into the parent metal and forms a microscopically thin intermetallic crystalline alloy at the surface. The joint isn't "glued" (like a joint in wood, for example) but the metals are joined on the atomic level.

[@errcoche]

When I was cycling seriously back in the late 70s and early 80s, the concern was always overheating and damaging the tubes. This was in the days of Reynolds 531, 753 from England, Columbus from Italy, Vitus from France and Ishiwata and maybe Tange from Japan. I seem to recall you needed a license or certification to make 753 frames because they were very delicate. I would guess that once TIG welding came along, tube development has occurred to allow for use of the process without compromising the characteristics of the tubes. Back then, braze-ons were frowned upon in the UK ( Italian bikes had them everywhere ) and chroming was discouraged, again because of potential damage to frame integrity. My impression is that you can silver braze anything as long as you don't overheat but I wonder about TIG welding. Just checked the Reynolds site and they pretty much seem to be saying that they made their newer products TIG friendly.

[@gerry343]

Fillet brazing with a gas fluxer saves a lot of time on preparation and clean up.

[@hananas2]

I'm starting to get into brazing and so far I found I really love using a propane torch and silver filler. I don't need to mess around with acetylene and the silver makes such beautiful clean small fillets with barely any post processing. I really wanna see if I can build full frames with this. If I can get the prep work to fit the tubes nicely quick enough I think the price of the filler can be offset by how quickly it brazes into a nice little fillet

[@PhiLeo7973]

1) What state is your shop in? 2) How much would you estimate it would cost a noob to procure a quality Brazing and TIG rig? 3) Kindly list your estimate$ of each and brand preferences. 4) Do you use BikeCad or another 3D CAD modeling software? Thank you for such articulate, inspiring, and imformative videos. Have a wonderful Holiday season,phil

[@michelevitarelli]

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

[@meatcreap]

great stuff - thanks!

[@stevenmchenry9276]

Great video & nice shop. I'm trying to learn to braze.

[@readrepairs]

Great video

[@randycheek1263]

GasFlux process allows brazing without paste flux. No residue to clean off. It's much faster.

[@chadkline4268]

Very good 😊 great job 😊

[@skibomber12]

The hexavalent chromium is no an issue when TIG welding stainless, only when MIG welding is it a problem. TIG welding stainless does expose you to ozone (small particles). Proper ventilation is the key here.

[@alpacamale2909]

Thanks Anthony Thintano

[@johnpalma7265]

I don't know what an LUG is, I don't know what an WATERBOTTLE is, Thanks for the video.

[@TimCalvin]

RE: Old school brazing into the 80's and 90's- the advent to of steel alloys that air harden made the move the to the higher temperature process of welding workable for high-end bikes. Previously, tubing was heat treated from the factory, and the thinking was that brazing allowed better heat control and less risk of killing the temper on the tubes. Reynolds 853 really did change things a lot- it was, to the best of my knowledge, the first premium bike tubing that was designed for welding (or, in some cases, high temperature brass brazing).

[@cobraframebuilding]

Thanks for that!

[@jimjungle1397]

When Reynolds first came out with cold worked air hardening 631 and heat treated air hardening 853, Reynolds approved welding the thicker, softer 631 and only brazing the thinner, harder 853 tubing. Reynolds originally recommended against welding 853. When Reynolds later decided to approve welding of 853, I did start seeing welded 853 frames that had cracked. Is this due to being heat treated or is it due to the tubes being so thin? Most other tubing companies that sell air hardening tubing, sell in it only in the heat treated, hardened condition, so I think the welded 853 frames are cracking because the tubing is so thin and difficult to weld properly, because it is so thin. It is interesting that Reynolds originally recommended only brazing 853, while the thicker 631 was approved to be welded. Maybe they knew something all along. Other than the thicknesses of the tubing, the thicker 631 is not heat treated and the thinner 853 is heat treated. Is it thinner than other tubing companies' heat treated air hardening tubing? Reynolds has a chart with the hardnesses before and after brazing. High temperature brazing is recommended of the air hardening tubing. The 631 would become harder at the brazed joints and the 853 would become softer at the brazed joints, but the brazed 853 hardness was still higher than the brazed 631 hardness. I've seen too many welded 853 frames crack to recommend welding 853, but I do like air hardening tubing for bicycle frames. Maybe the other brands ren't hardened to as high a degree of hardness, or maybe their tubing is thicker and less prone to cracking when welded. The thicker, softer 631 doesn't seem to have the cracking problem when welded and other brands, which most all are heat treated, seem to weld alright. I think 853 survives best when brazed, but might be on the thin side for crack-free welding.

[@fancytyme]

Really enjoying your videos, man. Do you do any rack fabrication? I've done frame brazing but it's been hard to find any info about fabricating racks. Tubing used, how to best bend tubing, etc.

[@cobraframebuilding]

I just might do a series on that!

[@LeoInterHyenaem]

Thank you for clarification. 👏🏻

[@maxhavelaar2462]

The Dog : Boss, you're talking too much.. where's my meal.. 😰😰

[@robertm1552]

Good stuff. In brazing you’re actually seeping in filler underneath the two materials to join them and get that semi-fillet curve going as you call it. It’s also way easy to go the other direction and glob too much filler and concave the braze round. That case lends the possibly to joint failure as you don’t know if the filler actually seeped and sealed the joint. Advantage to TIG, I think is even if you’re burning holes in joining materials you can cover them and ensure you’re getting a good bond. My two cents from trial and error and a certain school of thought. Thanks for posting.

[@eternaloptimist2840]

I was surprised you didn't mention one advantage of welding (including bronze welding) frames, which is that you're not restricted to the sizes and angles of available lugs. High-end TIG welded frames took off around the same time as mountain bikes, I suspect for this reason.

[@321tryagain]

This was very helpful, thank you.

[@myscreen2urs]

Does tig welding make for a stronger joint than brazing? You would think so if it actually melts the 2 components together, whereas brazing only melts the filler material to act as a glue. That's my interpretation of the two situations. Correct me if I'm wrong🤔

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

Hetchins were once asked by an American interviewer how long it takes to file their brazed fillet joints to that beautiful finish. The very indignant answer was "We do not ever file our joints at all."

[@Golgi-Gyges]

You had to say "American interviewer," like that was relevant.

[@frakafrocka]

Is silver filler typically used for lugged brazing and bronze is best for fillet brazing? Thanks. You are great teacher.

[@NobleOmarBey]

I'll just take "brazed" wings for now 😄

[@lemmetellyousomething679]

Great buddy👍👍👍👍that was very helpful

[@MakingArt.DoingStuff]

Just curious, why is your bender mounted to your mill? Love the Bridgeport btw, I have the same and love it.

[@jeffreyhickman3871]

Kmart and Walmart bikes are TIG welded, or simply spot welded. Very uneven heat (6000 degrees), and poor frame tube adhesion (joining the frame tubes together) are the result. These kinds of bikes are produced in the masses, not quality. I’ve owned a few of these bikes, they’re junk. Brazing, on the other hand 🤚, is done at a WAY LOWER temperature (and even heat, too) 🤒, resulting in a VERY STRONG bicycle frame. Such a bicycle frame could last up to, and past 10 years, and is VERY WELL worth the investment. Your friend, Jeff.

[@FUNKBOOGIE1]

Cobra Framebuilding ? Do you have a store that sells custom made Ebike frames with full suspension ?

[@sswcustomsewing4276]

Old motorcycle frames and the old springer front ends were furnace brazed together so you have brass inside of your tubes. Guys who modified old springer front ends making them longer using old ford radius rods brazed or welded them safely with oxy acetylene. The book I learned from for motorcycle frames is Custom Chopper Cookbook by Mike Geokan check it out he builds gorgeous frames for the street and for land speed racing. I am really glad I found your channel I really like your work and appreciate your sharing your knowledge.

[@Gallardo6669]

Darn good video, thanks a lot!!!!

[@automataFrank]

Can you repair a crack from the frame with welding?

[@MrJasenstewart97]

So could I braze an entire swingarm and frame to build an ebike? Or would the brazed joint be too weak and crack?

[@alexambro4998]

I have to make a small repair to a brazed frame but I only have a mig. Will I destroy everything if I mig weld next to a brazed tube?

[@jamesmedina2062]

Hi I have a question. Can I fill a small crease in thin bicycle tube with silver solder and a simple propane torch that does not use acetylene? The tube is seat stay about 10 cm from the drop-outs.

[@AngelWingrc]

What about brazing alloys?

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

Why wouldn’t you be able to MIG weld frames?

[@robindegu7294]

Can you stick weld a bicycle?

[@abrarfaisalhaque9944]

which on stronger? Braze or Tig?

[@bobawatsit]

Is that mill a Bridgeport ... ta

[@thomasvmanning]

What about TIG brazing?

[@skr-2517]

I came here to get some light on to why some mtb steel frames made in Taiwan are much more (we are talking 300-400USD) expensive (I think of Surly Krampus or Ritchey Ultra) than others also made in Taiwan (like Sobre Off or Nordest Britango). Are the expensive ones TIG welded and the cheaper ones done through a cheaper, less quality method? ALSO, some frames have only 1 gusset on the downtube other only on the toptubes, and apparently they are all regular 4130 double butted tubes. Does only 1 gusset make it cheaper and therefore more prone to braking the frame in the long run? I got excited and I asked too many and complicated things. I will understand if you ignore my message

[@st.paulmn9159]

Mechanical design(?) Is it a poor decision to weld a bike frame & not re-jointing the brazed joints?

[@LukeVibert1]

What are your thoughts on tack welding with TIG to get the alignment and then finishing with fillet brazing?

[@cobraframebuilding]

I have tried that once or twice, but once I really had my own TIG machine in my shop I stopped building bikes with fillet joints, so I never got that far into it. I have heard it works well, but I don't know who does it. I would talk to some of the fillet builders who also have TIG machines around -- they have all likely tried it.

[@renrifle]

Isn't brazing super expensive cos of the Oxy/Acet set up??

[@sswcustomsewing4276]

Oxy acetylene welding from my experience is the lowest cost way to weld or braze. Go price everything necessary for OA welding and look at the cost of a tig machine big cost difference.

[@DaWinter69]

Coming in late here but curious how bad would mig welding be for adding a disk bracket etc. to an old steel frame MTB?

[@eternaloptimist2840]

It would be fine for a low-end steel frame but not for lightweight alloy steel tubing. For adding a disk mount you could probably use silver solder and a propane torch but you'd need to take a lot of care with the fit and cleanliness.

[@skalliwag2766]

Very good knowledge, are you tools available in the UK,

[@tonyfoxxbuilds1920]

That Everlast tho

[@Monsieur.Nobody.]

Heya! Great video. Have you guys tried brazing or welding Titanium frames?

[@daydodog]

What about Tig brazing

[@051658]

I need to ask you a question, I used to ride a re unbent trike, and a car hit me fractured the frame and eventually broke a part, so I’ve been looking for somebody to do so, but because of COVID it is hard to get somebody to do it, where are you at so perhaps you can’t take a look at it. I thank you before hand and hope to hear from you Carlos

[@bryanharrison3889]

you can braze aluminum. Its actually quite strong. Otherwise, a fantastic video.

[@cobraframebuilding]

I don't know too much about brazing aluminum, but my understanding is that it is not actually practical for frame construction outside of cable guides and small bits.

[@tourbike]

Whats the difference in strength of the build?

[@bobseagull7600]

What about strength, in term of frame durability?

[@MarcusMussawar]

with the water bottle boss why not use rivet nuts

[@betsysmith9176]

Hey there I have a question. I have an aluminium folding bike, and I want to add a better fitting basket on the front. It doesn't have mounts. I have considered drilling into the frame and adding a klickfix, or brazing a custom mount onto the front that I can slide a custom made basket into. What do you think? Better to to sand down a bit of the coating and braze, or better to drill and set a couple holes? Thanks. :)

[@rchandos]

Very useful information, thank you. My frame recently cracked where the seat tube joins the bottom bracket. It is a steel frame from the early 1980s (Centurion Super LeMans), which I understand was made from "double butted" steel tubing. I was planning to take it to a welding shop for repair. Do you think TIG or brazing would be better? Thanks again.

[@zbn3320]

Damn i have the exact same frame laying around. Rusty torn. Considering fixing it up! Nice frame

[@sswcustomsewing4276]

Good question. I know on motorcycle frames they always crack where the seat post joins at the bottom. Have you thought about stripping the paint or coating off the areas you are concerned about and having a shop Magnaflux that area and mark out see exactly where the crack starts and stops ? That is what I do when someone brings me a cracked frame I strip it down clean and magnuflux test that entire frame with my magnet and shaker of iron powder because I want to be able to go to bed knowing that frame will be safe.

[@chesshooligan1282]

How about TIG brazing?

[@sephangelo4603]

Good for making use of aluminum or silicon bronze.

[@bobbythompson4268]

Thanks for the info. I’m building a motorized bike with the standard kit mainly, if you’re familiar with that. I need to mount a gas tank onto the top horizontal bar of the frame on a men’s bike, thinking about brazing, any thoughts on that? Thanks in advance! Edit: steel frame

[@lof7845]

Which tig machine do you recommend?

[@rewind9536]

What about a clean crack in the frame?

[@craigrmeyer]

Ever try "TIG brazing" with silicon bronze? It's a real thing, and apparently a significantly lower skill than "real" TIG welding (which I suck at).

[@hbeezey]

Maybe braze or tig weld a tripod so your camera isn't shaking the entire time.

[@moosicnsk8]

hi, great video, any thoughts on stick welding a bike frame?

[@edma711]

hmm 6011 in 3/32, 1/16, fish mouth with a little space for the material of the electrode, i try with 6011(3/32, 1/16, 1/8), 6013(3/32), 7018(3/32), 7014(3/32), i fk smash with jumps and hammer the frames and don´t have any problems with the stick welding, tube of steel 1,5 mm to 2mm that work for me, i try repair a tange tube with stick welding and fking destroy the frame is a bad idea stick weld a thin tubes

[@edma711]

peachcycles is a chilean guy who sell stick welding frame bike, look his instagram, his first post, he change the welding for hard brazing

[@richardwales58]

I think it would take a lot of skill to stick weld a bicycle frame you’d have to turn the juice right down and just dab with the stick

[@richardwales58]

And I think a 2 mm 6013 rod would be your best chance of doing it

[@haraldkinzel7871]

I was wondering if TIG brazing could work too? What do you think of TIG welding it first and filling it up with SiB & TIG brazing (just for the nice look of it). I am welding in my basement and Oxy-Ace setup is just too dangerous there due to poor ventilation, still I TIG braze random stuff a lot for the sake of the fillet-brazed look. Thx in advance!

[@angelitomiguelbatang5195]

I need help. I have a fixie steel frame i think its chromoly and i already hammered the inner chainstay so i can fit ma wide tire. So here is my problem i want ti fit a 700c x 45 on it but it hits the inner chainstay. My solution is find someone that can cut and weld new rear triangle of the bike is that even possible and safe if it si

[@mikekrasovec6390]

It's doable to replace the chainstays. It's probably not cost effective. Being happy with what you already have is going to be the cheapest. If you must absolutely have fatter tires getting a different frame usually makes more sense.

[@franzv3172]

What CNC mill is that in the background? Looks like a HAAS minimill that was converted to Linux or something????

[@cobraframebuilding]

1996 Bridgeport Torq Cut 22. Good machine. Loud as hell.

[@levondarbinyan3934]

Thanks for the video! Can I use propane + oxygen instead?

[@wnessnol]

Yes

[@wnessnol]

For braising

[@checkmyvevo]

Hey thank you so much! Is there any way to make lugs without machining them on the mill or buying presized ones? My dimensions are a little abnormal and I'd like to reinforce my joints with a basic lug of maybe just slightly larger pipe

[@cobraframebuilding]

You can make your own for sure. You need tubing that has the right slip fit over the inner tubing size. In USA if you buy the outside tubing 1/8” larger in diameter with a .058” wall it will have a nice slip fit over. So if you have a 1 1/8” tube and want nice sleeve material the easy way is to get 1 1/4” tubing with a .058” wall. .058” wall is kinda chunky so you still might want to turn that diameter down on a lathe if you have the means.

[@jimgourgoutis]

Watch some CS Hirose videos here on KZbin -- he fabricates custom lugs for a few of his frames.

[@drake9453]

will you mentor me

[@amanijam9676]

U r amazing

[@chrismason5662]

I was able to get my hands on some stainless tubing for cheap. It’s about 1.5” OD 035 wall. Not sure what type of stainless. Question is, can I braze a frame together with it? I brazed a 4130 frame years ago, so think I can do again, but don’t want to buy a torch if I can’t use on the stainless. Guy at weld shop says SS can’t be brazed, but wonder if that doesn’t apply to bikes where metal mass if very small and therefore maybe can get hot enough. Thoughts?

[@cedriceveleigh]

"wonder if that doesn’t apply to bikes where metal mass if very small and therefore maybe can get hot enough" Repeat this to guy at weld shop and see what he says.

[@chrismason5662]

Cedric What are you saying? His opinion was pretty firm. Was hoping someone on here has tried it before.

[@hogdog567]

Chris Mason people do braze stainless even though manufacturers don't generally recommend it. However, they seem to be O.K with brazing when using lugged construction. As you don't know the alloy I wouldn't try brazing it without lugs. Look at silver soldering it too, that'll keep the heat down.

[@masonbiker01]

Anonomosomous appreciate the comment. Lugged brazing is more for the classic bike design and method. The one frame that made was brass fillet brazed (not lugged). It was on 4130 and lasted over a decade with a lot of abuse. Wondering if there’s some reason this won’t work on SS. I think I’ll just have to make samples and test to destruction. Thanks again

[@skoue4165]

I'm not sure why he said SS can't be brazed, because it can be. Now everyone here seems to be talking about brazing with a torch, and mostly sweating connections and maybe that is where the trouble is? I have and many others have TIG brazed SS with out issues. You can get away with out having to purge. Some stainless welds badly so without knowing what you got...

[@secondwind3989]

😁👍💗

[@jimgourgoutis]

Doesn't good TIG need 220V power?

[@cobraframebuilding]

In the old school you had "transformer" welders that were the size of a fridge and they used a lot of current so they were always 220v single phase or even 440v or three phase. Since "inverter" welders have become common there are a lot of options that will operate on 110v. They don't always have as much output when you run them on 110v, but they generally have plenty for welding thin wall bike tubing. My Everlast welder is this style. Also, wiring a 220v outlet is generally a pretty approachable DIY project and there are a bunch of youtube videos about that topic.

[@skoue4165]

Kind of "what he said". Inverter TIG welders can do about 140 amps on 120V and that is enough to weld up to about 1/4", so much thicker than anything you are likely to deal with on a bike. Also many of them are dual voltage and can run of either, you just get more amperage available on 220V.

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

@@skoue4165 I used to TIG weld constructions from 1" and 2 3/4" with 1/8" wall aluminium tubes. The welder was usually set to 190-220 amps. Anything lower would just take way too long although I started off at 140 amps until I got better at it.

[@kalijasin]

@@cobraframebuilding if you getting 220VAC then there is something wrong with the wiring or the transformer outside supplying power too the electrical meter because the nominal standard in the USA is 120VAC and only allows for a range of −5% to +5% RMS. Note: The 240Vac is two legs so its 120+120.

[@tootzy-the-roll]

A brazed bike frame looks 100% better than TIG.

[@sharksaysso3309]

Need change out my old 1” head tube put to have a new 1 1/8” head tube. Is it possible?

[@sswcustomsewing4276]

Any frame can be modified just take your time and fitting it up, measure, check, and see if it works. I have no college education all I have is learning from my father at a very young age, my own projects, job sites, figuring out what works, and what doesn't work. The best framework starts with that one question will this modification work ? The person builds something that works or learns how to make it work even better than expected. Best wishes and good luck 👍

[@needparalegal]

Brazing does not deform the metal. No brainer.

[@luckysarangpure8936]

Please us english thumbnail

[@Dr_Xyzt]

On a side note for 303 stainless: All free-machining alloys have lead added to them, and lead melts at 620F, while the TIG arc is 10,000F. The lead boils out and causes issues with your shielding gas. So, you do get a weld, but it's not as clean or free of porosity as a comparable non-free machining alloy would be. -- Similar issues happen with brass, galvanized steel, and zinc plated hardware. The zinc in those alloys goes through a similar boiling event, plus you breathe it in, and that's no-good. -- TIG brazing is able to deliver results very similar to oxy-acetylene if you purge the tubing with argon. The scale and oxide is what stops the bronze filler from sticking to the joint materials. If you're careful, you can actually TIG braze stainless without an interior argon purge. -- Hexavalent chromium is present when you heat stainless enough to turn it grey without argon shielding, so bright yellow hot. When you grind stainless without coolant, or create stainless weld sparks via MIG or SMAW, that's when CR(VI) becomes something you should be aware of. Hexavalent chromium is listed as a "probable" cause for lung cancer. So, don't lose sleep over it. If you cut stainless with a chop saw or angle grinder, do it outdoors. If you sand stainless, you should be just fine, but you will become a better craftsman if you use soapy water as a coolant and lubricant during the sanding process, which applies to ALL metal sanding.

[@Golgi-Gyges]

What about TIG brazing?

[@Razorphil]

Very impressed with your knowledge for being so young. What many are missing though, is inline liquid flux. If you are welding frames more than once you should be using it. I used to braze bike's and wheel chairs in a production environment, and you can fly when brazing, with minimal clean up. I also Tig welded for all kinds of frames. Both like you state have pros and cons. Man, I can't imagine how much you will know in ten years from now. Try the inline flux, you will laugh that people still use paste. You can braze faster, cleaner and have more control over where the brass goes. Of course the tip size is also a factor along with how quickly you can move. Skill level is the most important factor, but it come down to practice like anything else.

[@johnchaplain7259]

Son, you have a good torch set-up. Forget the tig and learn to weld with it. There's a reason the FAA still recommends AO welding for aircraft frames and high end frame builders use AO for racing frames. AO welding is done at lower temps than electric welding (tig/mig/arc). if properly done, AO is as strong as tig and more snap resistant in a crash because it creates a softer weld and self annealing is a natural part of the process. European racers have proven this for years. I built two fuel dragster chassis with a torch, the same one you're using. I built a stretch breaker to test tubing welds and the OA welds were consistently testing as strong a the tig welds and known to be more snap resistant in a crash. The reason tig welding is promoted these days is it's easier to teach someone to do a serviceable tig weld than a proper OA weld, and a tig weld is faster and prettier, not necessarily better.

[@Peter-V_00]

FINALLY another voice from the "flame fusion weld" wilderness, the first problem in trying to get the point across is always the assumption that OA is all "brazing", the concept of cohesion vs adhesion seems to just blow their fragile egg shell minds. Yet another technique is bronze joints without flux by using TIG and argon, small tight joints are the result of the experienced hand, I've used this technique for repairs on steel parts that have a problem being flame repaired or TIG "welded" by using the TIG torch for the heat source and .035 bronze MIG wire to keep the heat down and puddle to a minimum, as you pointed out John, slower and requires a good amount of skill.

[@jthepickle7]

@@Peter-V_00 Perhaps, when people think of torch welding steel, they think the puddle is going to be really thin, like bronze. Little do they know that the puddle is as thick as cold honey, is easily led and informs you when the weld is happy!

[@javierzavalaponce]

Hey John , thanks for your feedback, would you please clarify meaning of AO welding, ... I do not know what AO stands for. big thanks for sharing your knowledge

[@labelJohn]

@@javierzavalaponce acetylene oxygen I guess or oxygen acetylene

[@shhhdontshout]

If im not mistaken Harris said the same thing why they prefer to build racing bike frame by brazing.

[@shannonbene7220]

Spreading the gospel of brazing & welding. Amen.

[@kenneely7899]

Cro Mo bicycle steel tube can be very thin. Better suited to bronze brazed. Steel tubes that are brazed correctly should make a stronger frame because they are not over heated. Maintain the heat treat.

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

could you do a video about how you initially got into bike frame building, to how you acquired all that machinery? it seems like just the start-up cost for all of the equipment is so extraordinary, for a questionable return on investment. love your videos btw

[@cobraframebuilding]

if you go to my website and my podcast page I did an autobiographical podcast episode where I told my own story. Basically it took many years to get all this stuff. It was my only real hobby and I scoured for deals all the time.