Breaking the Monoculture, the Rise of “Premium Mediocre”, and Choosing Your Suck

[@paulfaganpianist]

I love Mark's introductory theory of jazzification. I've been thinking a lot about this in my 30s (35 now). I also started to notice that Rock, in general, which includes metal as a subgenre, has become the next Jazz. And further, the best of the rock era starts to get refined, the bad stuff forgotten, the bands studied and intellectualised, the ability to faithfully reproduce and share and improvise on the genre becomes the domain of elites and inevitably the youth become both distanced but intrigued by this increasingly institutional music. And so it slowly fades but becomes mythologised at the same time, calcifying into the ghostly hall of fame along with the Jazz and Classical greats of yesteryear.

[@pqcman]

the next jazz theory

[@AlbertHuangTV]

Fucking loved the premium mediocre segment going straight into the LMNT ad read

[@michaelanderson7708]

Totally agree , embarrassing and contradictory

[@AlbertHuangTV]

@ I mean I thought it was funny and relevant. Podcasts gotta make money somehow. And it’s close to impossible to avoid premium mediocre tryna make a living doing this

[@factorfitness3713]

It's the perfect set up, honestly.

[@katiegarces]

Love that I can listen to this podcast and you guys are always discussing what no one wants to talk to me about haha. No idea how I even found Mark but I've been a fan since the blog days in like...2013ish? Filming at concerts - I realized I never ever revisit the videos I take and stopped doing it. As long as I have one or two pics of me and whoever I went with, memories are preserved. Premium mediocre: Stanley cups, private universities, West Elm (among others) furniture, flavored seltzer water. I'm with Drew on how insanely frustrating it is that many of the smartest most ambitious people on the planet are spending their time figuring out how to create some new BS product instead of solving a real problem :/ just stop already with the VR glasses

[@TenzDenz]

This channel is all you need this year.

[@davidfortin6437]

Love your content Mark. Thank you for the dedicated work. This feeling you are describing about people removing themselves from important moments through their phones... I feel exactly the same way.. and it is so obvious to me as well, I just don't understand and like this new aspect of our society. Thanks for putting this feeling out there.

[@Courtneyp268]

Mark, I love what you said about the paradox of pulling out your phone at a concert at a peak moment to record the concert!!! I went to a Sting concert in Boston and I felt exactly the same thing. The whole place had the phone up most of the time. This one guys was recording it for more than 30 minutes also. I was so aware that he was mostly watching the recording thru his phone as it was happening rather than being in the moment. And I always think, I wonder how many times he would pull up to watch the recording? Most likely none!!! It’s so sad but it happens everywhere. I go on vacation and I see that people aren’t even aware of their surroundings because they’re trying to catching that perfect picture for that instagram to show themselves off purching their lips and all. Everyone wishes to become a model. This is our world now…

[@SeanAllenPratt]

Over Christmas I went to see Nick Lowe play in Austin Texas, with a high school friend. Phones everywhere! Back in the day we used to collect his records, along with Elvis Costello, and the whole new wave movement. This episode really speaks to me.

[@ArtJourneyUK]

Recently a teenager I was talking to said, "who's Elvis Presley?" and I was shocked. I'm from the 80s era but knew who Elvis was back then. I realised then that the Elvis generation of the 50s/60s was fading out. Us of the 80s generation are likely the last generation remembering the stories of Elvis-ness and these were secondhand. I then realised that my favourite bands of the 80s do "back to the 80s" tours and, just as Mark said, it's all 50 year olds there. We all moved as a musical / cultural tribes back then.

[@syed4194]

i have to say as a fan of your work from 10th grade, i loved this episode , i would really like more podcast on socio-pop culture philosphical theories , more things like premium mediocre.

[@chrisallwhite]

The Jazzification Mark talks about , is what I call (as of just now) The 50 Cent Hypothesis. 50 Cent said When he started out his fans were you and in high school, as he grew and his music changed towards more party music his fans were now in College partying to his music, and as he evolved again and went into TV his fans had also grown up now and were at home watching Power on Netflix with their significant other and so on.

[@betsybush9289]

It has been ever so-I remember as a kid in the ‘70’s, the last of the. It bands would make the rounds, and our parents and grandparents were the audience for that.

[@moonmonkey303]

Its hard to deny that the musical monoculture between the 1950s and the early 2000s was incredibly exciting. A lot of it was driven by grassroots underground innovation that would regularly surface into the mainstream. That monoculture has disappeared, and musical innovation has slowed down over the last 15 years. It seems the 20th century was a bit of a renaissance for popular music. The negative was that the commercial race for the new trend would destroy new genres too quickly. What i love now is that these small 'boutique/jazz' music scenes are all those old genres being explored by real fans. The 20th century delivered so many genres we have enough ideas to explore for a very long time. Which means there's a ton of amazing music in almost every genre being released right now. Phones at gigs? Very annoying for anything more than a quick 30 second clip. Went to the Prodigy the other week, very mixed age crowd and not many phones, just a lot of sweaty ravers. Nick Cave also tells people to put phones away.

[@jkharpold]

Notre Dame kicker had the moment of his life last night in the national championship semifinal and his dad was shown recording the game winning field goal on his phone as if ESPN didn't bring 200 cameras for the broadcast. 🤣 Enjoy the moment!

[@rkentwenger5095]

Hmm -- I'm not a big concert-goer, but I do take a lot of photos, especially when I'm traveling. And I do go back and look through them to bring back the memories, especially of the people I met. (Like, "Oh, yeah -- that's the guy who bought me a drink in that little town in rural Romania" or something.)

[@bluefeatherUGC]

I never regret what I capture on my phone. The best shows I saw five to ten years ago, I get to rewatch years later. I have very little memory of the shows I didn't capture. My memory is not as good, and when I rewatch it later I get the feels again. I understand artists who want us to be in the moment, but when I'm having a bad day I love rewatching the moments that gave me the greatest joy.

[@yannick2287]

I think the astonishment many people are expressing over this phenomenon is not so much that someone does this, but that EVERYONE seems to be doing this. As if we as a society forgot how to enjoy the moment for what it is. You would agree that it takes you "out of the moment" at least to an extent, right?

[@simoroshka]

@@yannick2287 at least I'm in the moment where I also actively engage with what is happening instead of passively experiencing only to forget

[@yannick2287]

@@simoroshka why get defensive? You do you

[@simoroshka]

@@yannick2287 I'm not getting defensive, I'm simply pointing out that what you assume might be wrong

[@yannick2287]

@@simoroshka Cool! By the same token, there just might be something there :-) Which would explain why people are getting upset about it

[@OthelloBlaq]

Don't feel too weirded out. I just had this same conversation with a family member that was only half listening. I've waited to my whole life to get to "Medium Mediocre"! This made me feel much better. Thank you. 👍☕

[@mrjoecurr6147]

Best episode you have done

[@cassierabe2491]

Present! I always look forward on your podcast. Hi, Drew and Mark!

[@mtwata]

The irony... A whole Premium mediocre discussion followed by an ad of LMNT, a perfect example of premium mediocre 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ViewtifulVash]

This is the perfect episode for Mark to answer if he wrote the sick heavy metal intro riff to this show or not! I need answers!

[@gregorybresnahan2161]

Aging up with you since my 30th!!

[@noxsinfox1222]

Hm, I find this to be very relatable! I think it's so dumb that people have to whip their phones out for everything. (I'm a 90's kid so maybe that's why I have this view) But it's true how everything changes and becomes the new jazz. That was well put.

[@ro.stan.4115]

I didn't know Mark was into metal. I would never expect it. But it nice to hear it, me beeing 50 year old metalhead.

[@DadiszFekete]

early 2000s was about numetal, everybody was a Linkin park/Limp bizkit fan.

[@mtwata]

The intro should give us a hint. 😅 But yeah I feel the same as him. I went to an Exodus concert in Hamburg a couple of years ago and I was one of the youngest guys there at the age of 35 hahaha

[@TheRiveners]

I thought of jazzification in a way a couple months ago, I forgot what made me think of it, but my definition of it was kids rebelling against society, incubating a thing that can be shared across cultures, thing grows as kids enter workforce and can financially support the thing, thing gets really huge and popular because it's financially profitable, all the while the next kids are doing their own thing. Oh right I was thinking of dance punk and how it was the rebellion against goth (who knows if I'm anywhere close to right), goth against punk, punk against rock, rock against country, country against jazz, jazz against big band, big band against orchestral, then idk about baroque but I'm sure it was a middle finger to something that came before. So yes we are holding down metal, but there are rebellions against metal that are growing and I can't stand but 20 year olds love it. The wheel of taste rises and falls with its captured audience's income.

[@seanhochman]

I had exactly this experience last month when I went to a disco biscuits show. It was all the same people I saw at the shows when I saw them more often 10 years ago, just much slower and fatter, myself included :D

[@etut23]

Great episode, Mark, Drew, & team! Keep up the great work! 👍 What kind of bookshelves are those on your set? Would love that exact style for my office 🙂

[@nickmartin123456]

There has been a huge social shift with 40-somethings: previous generations were pressured to "put away childish things" and focus on family, career, and home maintenance. Now, you're a 40 year old man going to raves and metal concerts, playing video games, and enjoying comic book movies. I think that's a good thing. But it means you're still engaged in a culture that before was driven been teens and 20-somethings. Which is why all that stuff has gotten way more expensive, because it's no longer by young people for young people with no money. I'm sure Lamb of God is making way more money now on tour than they did 20 years ago. And the rise of "premium mediocre" is also being fueled by the fact that there are fewer jobs available for people to just provide fundamental basic goods and services. The demand is no longer driven by the customers, but by the workers looking for a way to earn a living. This podcast makes money from ads brought to you by another premium mediocre drink powder flash in the pan. Because we all gotta make money somehow in the new economy. Not because the drink options we had 20 years ago were insufficient.

[@marioornot]

The irony of listening to a podcast about mediocre consumerism only to be interrupted by consumeristic ads

[@rajiniseetharam5670]

Great topic to ponder about. Almost all experiences are subjective enjoyments and to be shared with a few, if only! Think those who constantly share are insecure and looking for validation!

[@Sub0Kate]

People pay for Premium Mediocre because they're trying to find something that's not shit, but it doesn't exist. We're willing to spend more for quality products that last, but there's more profit in making things that fall apart. This is why Boeing can't build a plane, movies suck, your doctor can't diagnose you, and I splurged on a $200 pair of boots that fell apart after a month. Financialization, monopolies, corruption. But arugala is real premium. Don't bash my fancy lettuce!

[@noxsinfox1222]

Hm, I find this to be very relatable! I think it's so dumb that people have to whip their phones out for everything. (I'm a 90's kid so maybe that's why I have this view) But it's true how everything changes and becomes the new jazz. That was well put! Also, I've been a fan since 2021 and have never looked back.

[@Cikanyoro]

I realized I record things but I rarely go back to check

[@GregaJerin]

I would look "Premium Mediocre" from the other side. It is also a way to subsidy products from lower price ranges, so that more people with less income can afford them. In the end that also means more profit for the bussiness, but that's how the capitalism works. Cheap plane tickets are an example of that - you even mentioned them.

[@cindyhill4864]

Having a personal device let's you find others who like the same things. You can curate your life. I studied jazz history and it was quite a subculture! Handmade instruments, musicians play one club, the go home change clothes then go play another set elsewhere. Taboo racemixing, racism, crime, prohibition, etc. Such an interesting time, wish I could have been part of that scene.

[@tomselek1000]

I went to see Rob Zombie this summer. He went off on the phones ruining the experience of a concert during his show. I would have to once again agree with the Super Beast.

[@Madeline_Renee]

I fucking love this podcast! 😆

[@lilybryan2599]

The Supreme brand is a perfect example... take mediocre items and make them scarce... then fools pay obscene money for them like a $500 brick

[@kevinhooter5133]

"No King rules forever, my son" Remember World of Warcraft, Halo, and Gears of War? "No King rules forever, my son" Remember Green Day, Blink-182, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen? "No King rules forever, my son" Taylor Swift and Fortnight may be Kings/Queens now... but "No King rules forever, my son"

[@jeriboxx4331]

If you chose not to decide you still have made a choice- Rush

[@blakebunch4485]

I'm the one ol'man who actually knows what you are referring to 🤔

[@TheFreakbreak]

Guys, picking up the phone in an important moment is either social pressure either FOMO. It is that easy

[@kenniron6313]

Much of Jazz’s influence evolved into and is personified in hip hop/rap. It was considered a really raunchy genre with hard hitting instrumentals. The instruments kept getting pushed to hit harder, the subject matter and composition of the songs kept getting pushed to be heavier/raunchier. Scatting became freestyling. The influence is still felt today.

[@anata.one.1967]

I'm a premium mediocre girl, In a premium mediocre world, It's not that fantastic, It's fucking exhausting.

[@hugoantunesartwithblender]

Actually, i was allways a rock and metal kid, and i never liked jazz. Now, im 30 and it relaxes me. And i never record concerts again for the same reason you said

[@andreabordelon4820]

I would add this thought to the pulling out the phone story I listen to Mel Robbins quite a bit and one practice I've gotten into every year is going through my phone to see what I did what I experienced what was good what was not good it's been very helpful for me to move into the new year with intention but yes I do agree with you it's over done

[@RuthHongArt]

Agree w/ Mark re: filming the entire concert is somewhat avoidant of having the whole experience and any possible discomfort. My question becomes, in the case of my 8 year old, he's become avoidant of classmates that are seen as "troublemakers" -- disrupters of the classroom. I've explained to him various reasons why a classmate might be perceived as such but to also give that student grace because he's only 8 and has a lot of growth ahead of him. My son says, "well it's my choice" of him staying clear of the troublemaker. 1) Is he smart from staying away from the "troublemaker" or 2) is he avoiding the discomfort of befriending someone who is seemingly different from him so that's the suckage he's accepting. Do we see more and more folks taking the route of #2 and being less tolerant and open to each other?

[@eyes1168]

it's interesting to follow your (Mark's) work as a currently 18 year old girl, feel quite isolated with most things I'm into :/

[@louc3268]

I feel that way, too, and I'm an almost 39 year old woman! I truly miss the world before social media replaced all of our in-the-moment interactions with one another. I know I sound like a grandma, but living in the monoculture Mark talks about wasn't all terrible. I remember going to school and everyone talking about the same show we all watched on TV the night before. We were more connected to one another, as strange as it seems. Now, society is fractured into so many segments, we are all isolated from a collective experience.

[@jeriboxx4331]

Pretty soon they will have screens in tombstones playing all the videos you’ll be buried with your phone..except it will all be in the metaverse instead…

[@rajs5609]

i remember this one time i felt like no matter what i did, people just didn’t notice me. i tried everything-confidence boosters, social tips, you name it-but nothing seemed to work. then i found this book, Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki, and it completely shifted how i saw myself. it’s not just about being noticed; it’s about understanding the energy you project. honestly, this book made all the difference for me. if you’ve ever felt invisible, you need to read it.

[@Sub0Kate]

Wow they're really hitting the spam hard today

[@jimjam3423]

This bot has been on this podcast forever

[@Miam_miam_la_gauffre]

Wow really? I use to be invisible too! But I found THE solution: my clothes aren't invisible and therefore people can see me! Don't run around naked and you'll be seen too 😇😁🫠🤩

[@montgomeryscot6623]

I used to feel invisible and I hated it (denied it too). Now I feel invisible and I love it.

[@kingofcrob]

On phones at gigs, I've had two personal projects going on in my life for 10 years... Project 1 one second a day, at the end of the year put it together as a reminder of the year, each day gets 1 second, the second is a photo a day... So I will often do 20-30 seconds of a show then put it away... That said, I'm very pro people recording a full set of the openers, don't know if you read this mark, but I'm guessing you've seen yeah video of rage against the machines first show at some some uni in the middle of the day, that shit cool, and no one knows where the opener will be in a few years, if everyone is filming you could take everyone's phone footage and put it together to make a cool music video of the next big things early years.

[@rehaansh618]

20:42 i have personally experienced that a lot of artists/creatives i liked experimented and tried something new and they became mediocre or even sh!t

[@rehaansh618]

Maybe because they were not being authentic and not completely going with what their heart wanted to do🤷

[@blakebunch4485]

"This is Water" 🌊

[@Cjclt2008]

A newer sub culture of music is Violincore! It’s a bit of classical violin meets metalcore. @Imminence is a Swedish group who has perfected it!! They are touring the US again this year. It would be shameful to miss them.

[@hannitta9able]

I realized most vip rooms just have fancy free snacks lol

[@JonCoutu]

*picks up phone to watch a video about putting down my phone

[@WumboSolutions]

I got blackout drunk at xzibit and Cyprus Hill and wouldn't remember any of it if i hadn't taken some videos 😅

[@RustyShackleford-q6x]

I already know where the mystery draft is coming from 😈

[@vandalpaulius]

Drew hating on VR/AR is very much uncalled for. VR games are straight-up magical. Being and interacting with the world where you fly cast fireballs from your hands is the closest that we get to experiencing fantasy worlds. AR stuff though is very early and it haven't found it's niche just yet, but I bet it will be super useful in the future. It's new way of computer-human interaction

[@moraruic89]

Talking about "Premium mediocre" things and then promoting "premium mediocre" products. 🤣🤣🤣 We cannot avoid contradicting ourselves in life. My question would be: Why hypocrisy is always necessary in day to day life and unavoidable if you want to achieve anything like having a business, a job or relationships? I am fully conscious that I am also a hypocrite in many situations.

[@mac-ml9xf]

The more I listen to these Podcasts, The more I Realize That if you Replaced Me and Drew... Mark would never Notice a thing, Basically the exact same person. By the way Drew, tell me more about your Zelda playthrough, I Fucking love it when you Mention it!

[@lombardi4]

This podcast is peak premium mediocrity.

[@Arsh1M]

there was a time when i kept wondering why some people seemed to naturally draw others in while i was just…there. no matter what i tried, i couldn’t figure out how they did it. then someone mentioned the book Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki, and i decided to check it out. the way it explains how your aura affects everything around you? it blew me away. it’s like having a secret code to unlock your magnetic energy. this book is a game-changer.

[@Muawiyah-Shabana]

The phone recording thing is driven by fomo mainly

[@michaelanderson7708]

So often these type of creators completely contradict themselves by flogging their premium mediocre goods, vitamin drink ffs

[@timoooo7320]

I’ve been trying to find a high quality suede jacket like the one Mark is wearing. Any ideas? 😅

[@leoneldelarosaibarria]

Found the exact same one Mark is wearing... Just search for Men's Goat Suede MA-1 Bomber Jacket-Auckland 😉

[@sumernoel1553]

Some people are really awkward at concerts. Don’t know how to move w the music & engage in that way (maybe particularly in front of others). Perhaps long video dude was one of those types? Or he might be boot legging the show for his platform. 🤷‍♀️

[@Curiousmatty]

For the guy filming 30 mins, maybe he just planned to upload to KZbin

[@Motivationalvideousa]

Your videos have such a unique charm, and I can see so much potential for growth. I’m a professional video editor and thumbnail designer, and I’d love to help you streamline your process. Let me handle the editing, thumbnails, and even SEO optimization while you focus on creating. Shall we discuss this tomorrow?

[@sneakers_guy5488]

Premium Mediocre just sounds like a result of marketing, am I wrong?

[@troytalbot5746]

I'm just not over the zipper on Mark's sleeve again..

[@nancygreenseich9877]

🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘

[@cindyhill4864]

Maybe "Premium Mediocre" is the new "Post-Modern"?

[@OutPushing]

Premium Mediocre. Wow. Absolutely. What to do in response? For me, it reinforces the idea of the best things in life being free (or low cost). Time with family and friends. Time at a public botanical gardens or the beach. A vista of nature. And put your fucking phone away and enjoy the moment, FFS 😅

[@traceystich5020]

Are all your advertisements "premium mediocre"? 😛

[@loganprice3218]

I think you're missing the fact that culture has become a product. The Genesis of cultural trends used to come from a philosophy or way of living. It was a true form of self expression. In the last hundred or so years, american culture had always been a rebellion against the status quo and dogma of the time. Now culture driven by algorithmic marketing schemes or a cult of personality pushing an ideology into the empty heads of people looking for an answer, and are willing to a crowd rather than exist within themselves. Not to say it's so dichotomous, but clearly we have no defining culture. And I think your assessment of why doesn't capture the whole picture. I think you're just explaining aging.

[@fixme.96]

40:03 how did we end up from to sucking 😅

[@DadiszFekete]

Well that criticized dude will let potentially tens of thousands if not millions enjoy that concert all over the world for free...

[@betsybush9289]

Big bands

[@conorhoward10]

Premium Mediocre… oh screw you guys for introducing me to this. Now I’m going to see it everywhere 😂

[@aljosacebokli]

Heeeey don't slag the cinema recliners...love them, best thing since sliced bread.

[@philippackermann3751]

2:26 Nah Mark, Miles Davis didn't invent cool, Lester Young probably did. No wonder you dropped out of music school ... (just kidding, looking forward to the rest of the episode)

[@Dee-sr4lt]

I make kahwa at home everyday😅😅.

[@Lol-h1g7o]

Reality sui generis.- Émile Durkheim

[@arpanjana5132]

i used to think being magnetic was just about looks or confidence, but i couldn’t have been more wrong. i read this book called Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki, and it totally changed my perspective. it breaks down the energy and mindset behind true attraction in a way that just makes sense. once i started applying what it taught, i noticed people reacting to me differently almost instantly. it’s seriously worth a read.

[@Grumpy_old_git-73]

Some of your audience are in our fifties 👅

[@sneakers_guy5488]

@ 20:08 Honestly, I feel like the opposite lol. Through watching stupid anime edits, I learned about Brazilian Phonk music and have added a bunch of songs to my playlists. Though, I see what Mark means about the dissipating of the monoculture, the things I watch online are usually never watched by any of my friends 😅.

[@dang2523]

Complain in general some more. It's intoxicating.

[@ostros]

Whenever I use my phone to much, Maynard tells me to stop: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qH3SeJ-KZbKrgaMsi=o8yHwWT2KVr2D5Di&t=155 . This is the way to go about it ;)