BREATH SUPPORT FOR SINGING (Lesson 6): 'Supporting in a V'

[@kowboys1180]

For whatever reason, it is very difficult to find vocal lessons that talk about how you FEEL when you are singing, specifically sensations and actions of muscles that control one’s breath. I have taken in-person lessons from two teachers, and have watched many videos on KZbin - this is the first time a teacher has taught me that the obliques support the latter part of a breath. This is something I’ve intuitively done, but never knew it was actually correct. The held expansion of the lower abs to keep the diaphragm down is also something I was never taught. Both of these concepts now fit perfectly with the correct execution of the Farinelli exercise. I will be be watching more of your videos for sure, thank you!

[@Velvettrails]

This breathing series is my school . It gives the clearest insight on how breathing works . I watched it over and over ,and everytime i do, i notice that i overlooked something the last time . Could be a little technical in terms terminology , but i love that the bar is raised this high in KZbin . I love your whole channel and how with every video watched a light bulb switches on .

[@cezaryturski8859]

Finally somebody is able to explain how the breath supposed to work. Bravo.

[@singwisevocals]

Awww. Thanks for this!

[@deborahshibusawa1322]

I am finding this so helpful, I was taught to force the tummy out as far as possible. It's a slow confusing process to learning a healthier/more effective way, but your videos are the first I've found that are so clear and informative. Thank you.

[@singwisevocals]

You're welcome. Thanks so much for commenting!

[@gavinedgar9464]

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[@aidenmatthias5450]

@Gavin Edgar Instablaster =)

[@gavinedgar9464]

@Aiden Matthias Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm trying it out atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@gavinedgar9464]

@Aiden Matthias DAMN IT REALLY WORKED! Just got access to my instagram login after roughly 45 mins of using the site. Just had to pay 15$ but definitely worth the price =) Thanks so much you really help me out!

[@meganlacymusic]

Karen, I recently found a series of videos by a vocal coach that illustrated that the rectus abdominus is actually linked to the muscles in the throat, and that by engaging the "abs" the body automatically tightens the vocal folds and the muscles of the throat. This illustration addressed my particular issue with vocal strain immediately! I wished I had found this information sooner. I have watched so many of your videos, and never quite picked up on that little (yet huge to me) piece of information, and I never understood that supporting with the rectus abdominus could actually cause vocal strain. And many coaches out there are actually promoting using the rectus abdominus to support. That has been a lengthy (and costly) misunderstanding in my own journey. I love and value the way you teach, how you give information, and I have gained SO much from you, and I wonder if you might expand on this connection between the rectus abdominus and the muscles of the throat. Would you be able to go into a little more depth as to how to send the breath, and where in the body? This coach also talked about the need to be able to "reset to zero" between phrases, as in being able to release all muscle engagement in the abdomen as you inhale, thus enabling a completely unrestricted inflow of breath (which is difficult to do once the "abs" have been engaged). I would link to the video of this coach, the "Singing Sensei" but his channel has recently been deleted. The explanations about support, though, were such a relief to find, and while building muscle memory in this new way, I appreciate being able to go back over what I've learned, but his videos are no longer available. I hope it's something you might touch on, or if you have, and I've missed it, please tell me where to find it! I love your channel and dive in here often. I appreciate you! 🙏🙏🙏

[@misspy1153]

I think this lady is very good; articulate and well intentioned

[@singwisevocals]

Thank you so much for your lovely comment!

[@edwardwheeler197]

The support comes from the internal obliques which are located within the corners of the V-Shape(pelvis). The upper obliques are in the upper corners of the ribcage. The transverse abdominus is the corset like muscle that wraps around the stomach area. The transverse abdominus is activated during bracing. I use a modified posteriolateral breath to support similar to Pilates( I am a Pilates Mat Instructor) which gives a similiar experience to what you described. I breath full and round but my lower abdominals stay somewhat in a resistant state. If that makes any sense

[@singwisevocals]

It makes complete sense! I really do think that, although there are some similarities in how we experience the sensations and coordination of 'support,' there are also going to be some slight differences in what works best for everyone. Some of those differences depend on our bodies, and some on the specific singing task. Thanks for sharing your insights!

[@edwardwheeler197]

+singwisevocals Thanks for reading. I love your videos

[@VIDEOHEREBOB]

Just great doses of knowledge given to us so well explained.

[@singwisevocals]

Thanks, Bob.

[@mahmudsohan3243]

Hats off to u for such amazing informations... all other teachers on youtube dnt go so detailed... Cant thank you enough

[@musicstudiouk]

Excellent video as usual- thanks!

[@singwisevocals]

You're welcome!

[@mikailacalhoun2807]

Hello! This video is heaven sent. I'm a master's of vocal performance student and with every new voice teacher, I am totally confused about breathing. Haha. I'm hoping you can give me a little more clarity with something.... When I engage that "tuck" you were talking about, my middle area (right in between the bottom part of my ribcages or my "epigastric region") gets larger and larger the more I increase the tuck. Is this normal?

[@ashish71620]

I am unable to use breath support in low volume singing especially at high notes. If I tried to use thicker or high volume I am able to use the support. Suggestion, please...

[@Springfeild4]

you are amazing by the way thankyou for this information !!!! I have discovered how to activate the TVA as you describe the begining of the V in a core yoga sense and its helped my voice and its fantastic to have you describe it from a singing perspective. as i said befor I had MTD do you have a diastis or should i say did you this was a while ago well if you did/ do i recomend RYC

[@mondotwistedmojo]

Is the rectus abdominus the muscle I am using when I build up a lot of pressure behind a plosive ('p' or a 'b')? I'm trying to figure out if that's a maneuver I should avoid when I sing.

[@Springfeild4]

i have been doing an online yoga pilaties course called restore your core it has hepled my MTD it might help your abdominal wall issue

[@carolcheny]

Thanks for the video, as always. Question: 1. where is the video of the hiss-buzz-oh-buzz-hiss exercise? 2. The last video in the breath support series talked about Farinelli exercise, so should I engage this 'V' set of muscles while doing Farinelli exercise or isolate to train intercostal muscles only?

[@allanhan4007]

Hi Karyn! I've noticed something when I actively try to support my voice, or more accurately when I actively try to raise my soft palette. I'm a lyric baritone, and I can sing with a lifted soft palette and proper support below B3 without issue. When I sing above it and really try to belt while actively paying attention to keeping proper technique, it hurts my vocal cords (a lot), whereas when I let my soft palette down, it hurts less but my tone becomes nasal. I've been trying my best following these breath support exercises and I really love them! But when I actually try to apply them when I sing a song, usually I feel something uncomfortable (like hurting my vocal cords, at least, I think those are my vocal cords. Something behind my adams apple feels like they're pounding together). I suspected that it might be because I'm using too much thyroarytenoid muscles, so I tried to brighten my tone w/ twang but it still hurt. Would you happen to know why this is? Thanks so much!

[@singwisevocals]

I can't know for sure, but I wonder if maybe you're engaging the tongue root above your lower passaggio (B3, likely), and that's pulling down on your soft palate. (This is a really common reflex in the passaggio.) So when you try to keep the soft palate elevated while the tongue is pulling down, you get pain. I suspect, though, that the soft palate issue may actually be unrelated to the pain that you're feeling in your larynx. You mentioned belting above B3 as being the coordination that causes the pain, so I wonder if you're maybe squeezing too much with the circumlaryngeal musculature to create really high glottal compression in order to support/brace the belted voice. It might be good to train head voice coordination for a while and focus on vowel modification and 'tall, rounded, darkened' vowels. The concept of inhalare la voce - 'inhaling the voice' - may be beneficial because it helps discourage pushing from the throat to get the sound out.

[@allanhan4007]

Wonderful, thanks so much! I'll definitely give your suggestions a shot (: Thanks for the feedback!

[@marieb1350]

Hi Karyn, yet another super helpful lesson. Thanks! Can you please do a lesson on breath energy and how to control / maintain / increase the energy within a phrase? I sing in an a cappella ensemble and find that it's quite different to master breath energy than when I sing with accompaniment. I'm : the group either expels either too much energized sound before the end of the phrase or we don't use enough and the sound just sits and doesn't have the energized spin behind it. Does that make sense? I especially notice it when the phrase calls for soft dynamics....the softer the volume the lower the energy....same with tempo/slower tempo, lower energy energy instead of the opposite. thanks for considering this request!

[@singwisevocals]

Great video topic suggestion!

[@maryannmootosmootos2333]

Hi Karyn! Thanks again for your posts! I have a question, or perhaps a two-part question. How does the V-shape "toothpaste tube" concept and the idea of appoggio work together? Is appoggio simply keeping the rib cage open or is it the appoggio something more "active"? Appoggio means to "lean", correct? This seems to be a different idea than to"support". Support sounds more to me like a muscular action as "lifting" or "holding up" whereas appoggio, which I understand means "to lean" gives this concept a different physical idea. Where or what in our body do we "lean" against? I would appreciate it of you could expand a bit on this a bit more! Thank you!!!

[@singwisevocals]

Maybe I'll record another video on this topic. Appoggio encompasses not only breath support but the resulting resonance factors, so it's a bit more complex (and also more complete) than 'support.' As I see it, we're 'leaning' on the abdominal and pelvic floor muscles for subglottal pressure (not on collapsing the ribs and our our 'posture' and depressing the sternum to generate it), but the continued expansion of the lower ribs merely keeps those pressures manageable by slowing down the rise of the diaphragm. We're 'leaning' on a connected system that works in balance to manage subglottal pressures so that we're not 'leaning' on the muscles of the throat to try to manage the breath or push the sound out, which will cause throat constriction and undesirable tensions, not to mention a bad sound due to a high larynx and poor resonation. Basically we're relying on the muscles of the torso to protect the instrument and ensure proper/effective resonance. Hope this clarifies things. If not, let me know.

[@jgtv5387]

So how do you build consistency in breath support and not consciously think your breathing system?

[@barborakafkovamusic]

I got through the whole great support videos. Its really helpful - thank you very much!!: Plus you are funny:)

[@singwisevocals]

Thanks so much for watching this series! I think you're the first person to ever call me funny! ;-)

[@Tamtam-123]

May I ask Is the belly pushed inwards or outwards when we tighten our abdominal muscles?

[@emilyfrancescook]

Hi Karyn, I have a question about the visual effect of good breathing technique for singing. You mention the lateral expansion of the ribs, but should we see the effect of inhalation lower down too? Is it accurate that when the diaphragm lowers on inhalation it sort of displaces the organs below it and has the effect of a slight protruding of the area above the belly button? Not a forced protrusion or a pregnant look, but more of a gentle rise and fall as a byproduct of breathing well and deeply? Thanks xx

[@singwisevocals]

Yes, there is a slight protrusion of the belly due to the displacement of the abdominal contents (viscera) as the diaphragm lowers. The abdominal wall does protrude a bit, but we needn't exaggerate it. I do explain this in an earlier video on how to take a proper inhale. Expansion deep into the hypogastric region (between the naval and pubic bone) is unnecessary and unhelpful. It's impossible to completely isolate and limit all the forward and outward movement to just the epigastric region (between the bottom of the sternum and naval). However, due to the insertion of the abdominal muscles in the pubic bone, there is less range of motion for those muscles down lower. Some teachers encourage a slight firming of those lower muscles above the pubic bone just before inhalation to prevent exaggerated displacement of the lower abdominal wall. The more exaggerated this displacement, the higher the pressures within the visceral (abdominal ) cavity and the more pressure the viscera exerts against the diaphragm (partly through elastic recoil) as we initiate the tone. But we also have to remember that the diaphragm actually only lowers as much as two inches. Hope this helps.

[@kulk76]

Hi I am unable to locate the video where you are lying down on your back and singing I suppose it was NG sound. Can you please share the same as a reply. Thanks

[@1234hhj]

If the air is inside the lungs..not sure if muscle work has anything to do with a real effect on breathing..or it is just a false sensation of influence..we cannot influence on the diaphragm at all..perhaps the only thing we are achieving is reducing the subglotic pressure by increasing the personal attention to the abdominal section.. This is just a thought that I have..I am still searching and learning ..

[@Morning404]

The intercostal muscles associated with correct appogio breathing will automatically engage. But in your training you should play with the amount of sub glottal pressure you can achieve with a relaxed, comfortable throat and open pharynx position. Over time this will encourage your cords to approximate together right at the very moment of inhalation - meaning no physical/muscular force is needed. But you've got to first pay attention in your training to both low breathing (support) and your mid-section area at the same time.

[@alfredobelloni3258]

In regard of the S- buzz- O exerice, is there a particular reason for it to be an "O"? And would going up half notes in pitch be a good idea?

[@singwisevocals]

I think it's an /o/ vowel simply because very little adjustment to the shape of the mouth is necessary when transitioning between /s/ and /o/. Other vowels can certainly be used, as well. Yes, if you have the time, feel free to moved up by half steps when you practice this exercise. It's good to feel the differences between pitches.

[@pranilbajracharya7000]

Thank you so much..This Video really helped me a lot:)

[@singwisevocals]

I'm happy to hear that!

[@setapartforHim]

Is that how its suppose to feel when u sing? The pressure down to the pubic area then to the abdomen while trying to maintain the ribs out? I've been trying to figure out how much pressure I need to make. It seems that I over do it. Sometimes I feel like I'm working out my abs. I also need better breath control. I'm sure you can hear it when I sing. I sound too breathy. I just started incorporating the straw exercise. I hope to see an improvement by my next video. I wanna stay consistent with uploading. I've never really focused on getting better at my voice until just recently i got the desire to get better and i have watched many videos on KZbin. By far, your videos have made me understand how the voice works and how it all needs to be balanced to function properly. Thank you so much for sharing

[@singwisevocals]

A simpler and likely more effective way of trying to cue your body to the right amount of 'support' and the correct muscular engagement would be to sing exercises with a sustained V (upper front teeth on lower lip). First, place your hands on your lower ribs around the sides, then start with a few energized Vs. Let the voice 'rev' a bit, like you're revving a car engine. This should cue you to which muscles intuitively want to engage. More often than not, it's the transverse and oblique muscles immediately under the ribs at the sides (a bit to the front). You may also feel the rectus abdominis muscle down the front engage if you're forcing more. That's where you should be feeling the body connecting with the breath. Then, try some slides or sirens (1-slide-5-slide-1) making your way higher in key each time. You should still be feeling the same kind of muscular engagement that you felt when you 'revved,' although it won't be as forced. (I''m glad that my videos have helped you in some way! Thanks for sharing that with me.) Show less

[@setapartforHim]

@@singwisevocalsthank you so much for your reply. I have been incorporating exactly that lately and it has been helping a lot! This confirms im heading in the right direction. Thank you!

[@wowawewah]

Is it supposed to feel relaxed or engaged (which in my mind is to keep it ever so slightly tensed).

[@singwisevocals]

I would say engaged, but not super tensed. The breath management system is doing work. It has to engage. And the louder, more intensely you're singing, the more engagement you're going to feel. Also, you'll likely feel more engagement at the end of the phrase (especially a long phrase or sustained tone) because those abdominal muscles have to work harder to keep compressing the air and maintain a consistent subglottal pressure when lung volume has decreased significantly (from what it was at the start of the phrase, immediately after the inhale).

[@JordanPringle]

I don't understand this video. I think it's becuase I sing and use everything in my throat the body is foreign to me. Even when I try to do what your saying it still doesn't make sense. And I'm supposed to release the breath yet I don't know how. I get it but I don't get it lol

[@thewrestlingpalace9989]

You said tuck in your abdomen if you have a weak core before inhale. When you do inhale does your stomach go out. Or supposed to rather??

[@singwisevocals]

Yes, there still needs to be lateral expansion of the lower ribs and upper abdomen so that the diaphragm can lower. The tucking in before inhalation is just of the muscles immediately above the pubic bone, and it is only intended to prevent over expansion - to great a distension of the abdominal wall - when there is laxness of the abdominal muscles. The upper abdomen and lower ribs - the epigastrium - needs to remain flexible, supple, and able to expand as needed.

[@thewrestlingpalace9989]

singwisevocals Does this tucking encouraged expansion else were?

[@singwisevocals]

It depends on how you're doing it. When I encourage a tuck, it's really a very subtle contraction. I generally discourage stiffening anywhere in the body. This slight tuck down lower will merely encourage the expansion to happen a bit higher, in the mid-section, which is ideal. This is the area of the lowermost ribs to which the diaphragm is attached.

[@thewrestlingpalace9989]

singwisevocals So if I contract my lower abs, my ribs will expand?

[@singwisevocals]

When I 'slightly' contract the muscles immediately above the pubic bone, that doesn't seem to inhibit expansion anywhere else. In fact, it seems to 'direct' the expansion to where it's most useful. But if you don't need to 'tuck' in this area before inhalation, then don't. I only teach it this way when the abdominal wall tends to over distend.

[@imaplant4030]

Do we keep on the expansion until the vocal phrase is done? When i do the inspiratory hold, and when i exhale, it kinda feels painful.. :(

[@fmmo8885]

I did not understand the exercise Do I raise the legs while doing (v) while breathing The most important thing is the method Thank you 🙏🙏🙏

[@cyomara89]

Hey there Karyn, as ALWAYS, this's a great video and visualization- thanks much for it! One question: in another vid, you talk about how you refrain from involving the pelvic floor (i think you might've added that it's 'naturally engaged'). But this technique brings it to the fore, somewhat- is the difference that this's just a non-singing, visualization/training bit? Or have you slightly amended your previous thinking? Just asking cause i recently read this interesting article that addressed it: tinyurl.com/yahx3o45 What she says in there struck a chord with me, and reminded me how pavarotti used to talk about that region; and how others talk about 'growing taller as they sing'. Thanks for your time, Karyn

[@singwisevocals]

This is a good question. I believe that the pelvic floor does engage passively in response to the lowering of the diaphragm and the resultant displacement of the viscera upon inhalation. This has always been my view. And from what I've read from many sources, the pelvic floor muscles are somewhat engaged during exhalation, as the abdominal muscles generate subglottal pressure. They want to 'spring back' to their original positions. But the degree to which the pelvic floor becomes engaged differs depending on the context/situation. My concern is with their active, conscious engagement, along with directives such as 'clench a dime between your butt cheeks,' 'push downward on your pelvic floor,' and 'bear down as if having a bowel movement,' all of which can lead to imbalances, such as 'holding' and tensions, including the Valslava Maneuver (which is often engaged during difficult defecation and weight lifting, and cause the vocal folds to act as valves to excessive pressures). I believe that if we focus on certain aspects of breath management - mainly posture and encouraging a bit of natural antagonism between the inspiratory and expiratory muscles and forces, the body will coordinate effectively and in balance, and this includes the pelvic floor muscles. To me, it's all about balance in coordination. If we misplace our focus or place too much focus on one area, that can lead to tensions elsewhere, often in the throat. There are differing opinions on the extent to which we should actively focus on and engage the pelvic floor muscles. I simply believe that they will engage as needed (passively). The Backstage article that you shared here obviously promotes a lot of active engagement. The traditional appoggio does not (www.voicescienceworks.org/appoggio.html). 'Supporting in a V' is partly visualization and partly a promotion of the engagement of the lower transverse muscles first so that the upper abdomen remains supple, which frees up the diaphragm. Again, though, if the transverse muscles are engaged above the pubic bone, there is likely to also be a bit of engagement of the pelvic floor in response. But the difference is that we're not thinking about engaging those pelvic floor muscles. We're not actively/consciously tensing them or pushing them downward or upward. As for 'growing taller as we sing,' that can refer to a number of things, including the traditional 'noble and axial' posture, which involves elevating the sternum and allowing the head (as a whole, not the chin) to lift upwards and away from the shoulders. I'm not sure that it necessarily refers to the pushing downward with the pelvic floor. With regard to breath management, my most honest view is that so long as the body remains in balance, the specifics are somewhat inconsequential. But since I'm often asked, and even required, to teach on this subject, I need to present some opinion and technique. What I've stated here closely aligns with what I believe to be most intuitive and natural for our bodies.

[@cyomara89]

Thank you much, for this detailed response. I truly appreciate it! I find I'm habitually careening from feeling certain (in singing) to being overwhelmed with abstract/vague notions, and it's so sooo nice getting a real (and quick!) answer from somebody who's both knowledgeable, and open to different ways of thinking. Again, thank you, Jeff

[@kellykcombination]

So when is a song coming Karen?

[@singwisevocals]

Ugh. I'm working on it! I had planned to record a Christmas song the week before Christmas. I had it scheduled with a guitarist who was going to sing harmony. Then I got sick. My cough is finally almost gone - two months later - and so now I can start moving forward again. Last week, I met with a pianist friend to work on one of my songs so that the musicians could have a rough demo to get a feel for the song. And I'll be rehearsing with the band in a couple weeks (once the bassist returns from vacation) and hopefully recording the song (or two) shortly thereafter. Unfortunately, with my family responsibilities, I kind of move at a snail's pace when it comes to accomplishing things. I'd love to get more done at a faster pace, but such is my life! I'm trying to make it happen sooner rather than later, though!

[@josegochez94]

awesome! thank you! :)

[@singwisevocals]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@kowboys1180]

That took a dark turn when she mentioned her compromised abdominal wall.

[@darksidessj25]

No wonder why are us singers are bad ass. Those muscles are extremely difficult to develop in the begging. I was sore for weeks and I couldn't really understand why. It was my lower pelvic floor that was getting sore. The lower v-lines. I had know idea I was doing it right but it felt right. I was seeing results. It was just odd sensations that I never felt before. I am even gaining extreme confidence from it, it's where my personal power is. You really have to explain things in a right way to students. You just cant' come out and say this is where this is from especially on high notes. The best way is where do you feel that? That's why my coach kept saying that to me.

[@IbenHansen]

Dear Karyn, Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us. You mention that you have "compromised abdominal wall" (is it after birth belly, Rectus Diastase?) Can you elaborate further on that? and what effect does it have on your singing? Best wishes 🌺

[@bauwensstefan2463]

5:40

[@alexgomez3734]

Ow my muscle super tigth super.

[@alexgomez3734]

This videos save my life.Thanksss new subcriber🥰

[@DiverBand]

This woman is absolutely brilliant. However, after watching a number of her tutorials, if you thought about everything before singing you would have a nervous break down. To constantly be aware of every aspect and you watch of singing and inhalation and exhalation would be absolutely mind numbing.

[@halimatu2455]

Я чтото понял!!! Маэстро Спасибочки!.. отА."Кавказ!.."

[@Harmony063]

Are you Sagittarius rising , sun or moon?

[@singwisevocals]

I'm not sure what that means! (I'm a Taurus, though.)

[@MattiasMartin-mm3jw]

Uffff...words words words... over and over..lead to nowhere

[@knowsomethingnew4239]

Maim i like you🌹🌹

[@LauraelenaGomezvoltan-ee4rm]

Oh God! How am I going to understand if I see an over side shirt instead of your tammy, sorry Please, no more anatomy; i do not be a doctor., thanks, very frustatting😢

[@halimatu2455]

Мне как малчику практиканту интересует... от Акт. А.