Bridge Building With Cessationist (FIXED AUDIO)

[@bk1bennett]

Labels are bad. God is good. Great video.

[@savedbyGrace1234]

Pray for me as I’m dealing with swelling all thru my body. I’ve been diagnosed with auto immune yrs ago but I’m not accepting this diagnosis. I’m a charismatic believer and believe God can and will heal me

[@Descriptor_]

“Charismatic Cessationist” is the label I wear. I don’t see a biblical framework for the continuation of the gift side of the supernatural works yet I see very clearly and experientially the supernatural movements of the Holy Spirit. I think men like Jeff Durbin and Doug Wilson would fall into the same camp as did men like Spurgeon.

[@TheChristianNomad]

I'm not a cessionist, and I have no problem with any of the gifts, I have a problem with the people claiming to have them. I have met so many people who claim the gifts, but only 1 person I'm 50/50 on whether he does or if he's making it up.

[@jameswilson1737]

I just bawled my eyes out listening to Jeff Durbin. Thanks for this episode.

[@christopherneedham9584]

The reason that I am a cessationist is not because I believe that God cannot heal. In fact, its because I believe that only God can heal. God does not give people the gift of healing any more. He heals people, but all of the faith healers are frauds. God does not give people the gift of prophecy any longer. But he still speaks to his people. In the story with Jeff, God spoke to many people, but nobody came to Jeff and prophesied to him anything. The Holy Spirit testified as he needed to those whom he needed to.

[@pastordanaddo]

So grateful for all you guys do! Remnant radio has been a blessing to me! I am a charismatic, reformdish believer so I feel very at home with you guys!

[@maulden2010]

Good stuff fellas, had to manhandle my emotions during Durbin's clip. Tears at work are not okay hahaha.

[@garycasebier7909]

Being one that was always on the fence for years, I can vouch for RT Kendall in helping work out the arguments. This show was really good.

[@Indorm]

The Jeff Durbin story is probably one of the most beautiful miracle stories I've ever heard. I listened to his interview with Doreen Virtue over and over and posted it on FB twice.

[@inez7609]

That last clip is interesting i work in a NICU the medical term is myelomeningocele and everything he said is correct. Kids born with this defect placed in prone position..surgery to correct...prone for another 2 weeks lots of cathing the bladder watching the site making sure it doesnt get infected..constant stooling and also yes possible shunt placement depending on serial head ultrasounds looking for buld up of exess fluid in the brain. That was def a miracle theres so much these families go through. Sheesh.

[@enocheubank4424]

Alright. It's gotten to a point where if you don't watch this channel, you've got major problems. You guys are bringing unity and love for all brothers and sisters. You guys are striving for truth. This channel is unique. I'm in love. One question though. Do you have to have a beard to be on the show now?

[@matthewellis9889]

“Growing a beard is a habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial.” -C. Spurgeon

[@MapleBoarder78]

Thanks for sharing. I think it’s important to understand that due to extremists on both sides (and other factors), words/phrases like “Prophecy” or “Word of wisdom” can make people on the other side cringe because of the negative baggage it can appear to carry with it. Same goes for words from the opposite side like “Elect” or “Sovereignty”. Some will immediately associate those terms with Hyper Calvinist theology and immediately become defensive and put walls up. Some of these are becoming buzz words that trigger people on both sides where it can become impossible to have a conversation.

[@arnaldodelgado2181]

The day will come when unity will be restored to The Body of Christ.

[@-altmoon-8975]

43:24 You mentioned the idea of words that are propositions or prescriptions vs. what I call 'personal directives.' Personal directive words from God are a thing I know. When I was 16, I met a cute boy, but God told me not to date him (I was a default cessationist at the time) It was clear as day the voice of God in the Spirit. I disobeyed, and suffered a great deal because of it. That word was a personal directive for me alone from God, and I was in sin for disobeying that personal directive (James 4:17).

[@Jakeblauwkamp]

Thanks for pressing into this topic. This is a helpful conversation to listen in to. Any books you would recommend?

[@Drspeiser]

Holy Fire by RT Kendall is a good one

[@PixlerPerspective]

Josh, if you read this...thanks for this. Today’s video had me in tears. I would love to see Christ’s body come together and be led by the Spirit under the authority of Scripture. Thanks for bridging this divide.

[@FrAndrewHarrah]

Just a heads up to Josh: I've heard you use the phrase "patristic fathers" on multiple shows when referring to the church fathers. It is a linguistic error because "patristic fathers" is redundant. The correct phrase is either "the patristics" or "the church fathers." I enjoy your show.

[@RyuujiRaptor]

Thank you, Josh for your wisdom. May God bless you! We should never stop having relationship and understand others.

[@Myrdden71]

Great video! As a Southern Baptist, I was raised outside of this whole controversy I guess. It was never really dealt with from the pulpit that I can recall. I was interested, however, so I bought MacArthur's "Charismatic Chaos" and it didn't convince me of cessationism. I keep it on my shelf right beside Tony Campolo's "The Kingdom of God is a Party" out of a sense of irony.

[@nathanweisser]

Man, thanks for this guys. I think the only way to work through these issues is with unity. I'd still love to hear someone come on your show and articulate the cessationist position.

[@surenshrestha6405]

26:1, you mentioned Paul washer on tongues where he says gibberish utterance isn't tongues. Maybe 95% tongues are these, do you condemn them and call out names ?

[@Tina4Yhwh]

I am a Calvinist and a charismatic. I believe in the gospel as Calvinist and believe the gifts are for today as the charismatic.

[@jacobvashchenko7687]

You are one rare breed of Christian.

[@ryandawson2877]

This is good. The manifestation of the gifts of the spirit alone are not enough to confirm a message. Or the messenger.

[@Kintizen]

I wish you guys had Justin Peters for this. He is out spoken Cessationist, who has been speaking up against Charismatic, Apostolic and Prophetic movement.

[@Liminalplace1]

i think Titus 3:10 applies to JP..so i dont think iits appropiate to have him on a program that seeks to bring believers together in unity.

[@Kintizen]

@@Liminalplace1 Why would you judge so severely?

[@onesimustim8424]

@@Kintizen Because Justin Peters judges so severely - and often incorrectly.

[@Liminalplace1]

@@Kintizen at least you read the scripture. It comes from having to literally salvage pastors on the mission field from listening to JP. He continues to present lies and distortions which can be seen when you research sources. i will not say he not a brother..but the effect of his "ministry" is only divisive. JP claims charismatics arent brothers and he refuses to debate Dr.Michael Brown on the basis he doesnt accept he is a pastor. I think thats divisive.

[@Kintizen]

@@Liminalplace1 Thanks for clearing that up. I only seen his stuff on 2020 prophecies and election related. I just thought he had good exegesis on subject of prophecies and Cessationism.

[@NoahRichardHarris]

27:10 Get Paul Washer On! He'd be great, such passion!

[@jenniferlearman1623]

Miracles were used to prove the message before the cannon in my opinion. Now, miracles are not our test but instead the written word.

[@St._Jaden_P]

Well, i wouldn't deny that the gifts were to confirm the Gospel, but in regards to believers in an assembly or going out in general, not even in just the sense of bringing non-believers to Christ, Paul gives 4 reasons as to what the purpose the gifts are for, one of them IS as a sign to unbelievers, yes, but the other 3 are to edify the church, to edify oneself (in the case of tongues without interpretation), and for the common good all around. We can't complete throw out the gifts because we have the bible, because the gifts still do confirm the word, both the spoken word and the written word. But they are also for the edification of the body, for the edification of oneself spiritually, and for the common good as a whole. In the end, it's ALL for Christ to get the glory. I would suggest reading all of 1 Corinthians, chapters 12 through 14 for more clarification on it.

[@sjl2949]

Solid video. Very helpful to see we basically believe the same thing. No one disputes that God can and still does the miraculous. It’s just the vernacular and approach that are different. I also think there’s a lot of fear of appearing new-agey (and rightfully so) in the cessationist camp. May God use this message to unify the body of Christ!

[@TheRemnantRadio]

To be fair. There are lots of different cessationists. Some, granted a small minority, would be uncomfortable with the testimonies by Doug and Jeff in this video. Some would deny any working of the miraculous. they are functional diest and should probably be called "Hyper-cessationist". Most of my cessationist brothers, pray, evangelize, and request the guidance of the Holy Spirit with the same level of fervency and dependency as my Pentecostal and Charismatic brothers.

[@MakeAmericaNiceAgainPlz]

@@TheRemnantRadio Amen to that brothers!!!

[@davidrussell631]

It’s not a fear of appearing “new-agey”. Heard of the book “The Physics of Heaven” Bethel church leaders wrote? It’s concern of actual new age practices infiltrating the church.

[@sjl2949]

@@davidrussell631 you’re right. I retract “appearing” and replace “being.” :) I agree with you that it’s a healthy fear to have if the practices or beliefs do not have scripture supporting them.

[@sjl2949]

@@TheRemnantRadio thanks for correcting. Have y’all had any people who deny any working of the miraculous on your show? I am interested to hear how they explain testimonies of Bible-believing Christians like Doug and Jeff.

[@principled.not.pragmatic]

This makes me think that the difference might be Gods sovereignty. It is one thing to know miracles happen but disagree on God changing his mind in the moment or He already knew the miracle would happen. Man is so finite and limited that the problem seems to be in our understanding of God in the world we live. Just as in August’s life, did God know he would be born healed or did God change the outcome because of the prayer? Do we pray and God changes us through the prayer or is God being directed by our prayers? I’m sure there are subtleties to both but interesting to think about.

[@pete4527]

Love this.... but Mark Driscoll talking even faster? 🤣

[@duncescotus2342]

There was a bridge being built, but it stopped.

[@BornAgain223]

bridges being built are not for today

[@bananaman5554]

the Holy Spirit never stopped, nor did the gifts ever went away. God does talk to all brothers and sisters, as our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher, guiding us to do the Father's will, convicting us when we do wrong, comforting us in hard times, helping understand Scripture. The Holy Spirit is God.... so why teach that He stopped? He never stops working.... He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

[@rahr11]

Super enlightening!! Thanks so much😊

[@williamphelps4552]

Sooooo, Jeff Durbin is into fleecing........ HMMMM... lol Amazing testimony, glory to God! Soooooo Good!

[@jordan-kristina2014]

John Alexander Dowie i think may be the zion guy he was thinking of.

[@Drspeiser]

With respect to people understanding tongues as in their own language, I believe the miracle happens in the hearer, rather than in the speaker. For example: a man speaks in tongues, and someone who speaks Portuguese hears and understands what he says, but someone else who also speaks Portuguese hears but doesn't understand. Why? Because the one speaking in tongues isn't speaking Portuguese - he's speaking in tongues. But God does a miracle so that the one person is hearing those tongues in Portuguese

[@BrownGuyGaming91]

Im just watching this now, I'm kind of shocked actually, it seems like that there's some cessationists out there that actually aren't cessationists? In the truest sense Lol. I'm a charismatic calvinist, and believe in the continuation of the gifts. It's interesting to see that interview with Jeff Durbin. It's almost like they just don't want to associate themselves with charismatics, and secretly their closet continuationists? Lol I dunno. Anyways this video was great, I feel like it definitely can open people's eyes so there can be more understanding on both sides.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Yes - Honestly, sometimes it's just semantics. It's like we're using different vocabulary but saying much the same thing.

[@reetgoodministries1273]

Excellent as always, thanks dudes

[@jajj0428]

Based on Cessationist argument, that God speaks only through the bible, there should be only two ministries in the world today 1) bible translators who translate bible into native languages 2) gideons international - distribute bibles. There should not be anyone preaching, teaching, writing books, nor writing new songs. The only thing we need to do is just read the bible. But God is the same yesterday, today and forever. The God who inspired the people of the past is the same God inspires people today. But that doesn't mean that we can add to the bible just because of the fact that what we write today couldn't be applicable to the people of the past. Bible is like the operating system that is designed once and for all but people still can develop Apps (books, songs, prophesies, healings) continually. But in order for the app to work it has to fit the operating system standards.

[@BlastHardcheese194]

Look further into the Montanists. The practiced as they did because they believed in the democratization of the Holy Spirit, and did not believe that the Apostolic era ended when John died. If he died?

[@williamphelps4552]

Good episode guys, really enjoyed it. Agree with your final thoughts, I just want people to be open to the Lord to do these things in their life. I know so many who wouldn't even consider the miraculous in their sphere because they have been so convinced that God doesn't do this anymore.

[@kathleenparonto5324]

You briefly made a comment about Anabaptists and it sounded to me unfavorable. I am wondering why? Perhaps you could do a show about that movement and bring some clarity? Years ago I attended a Brethren in Christ Church and I researched the doctrine of faith and they seemed sound on essentials. I read a little about Anabaptists back then and I know that their views on war, taking vows and dress in some of the more traditional Mennonite communities adhere to those things, some of the newer do not. I found that community to be very loving and giving snd serving and biblically sound, so I’m curious as to why you made that comment. I really appreciate you snd all that you do. Your wit sometimes can be cheeky but as a rule you try real hard to honor the whole body. This seemed different.

[@ryanjamietaylor1134]

Probably because they have a faith+ works gospel

[@byronbesherse3703]

This is the second time I am watching this. This is my Question: I know the claim is that the prophet today is not to be judged by the same standard as the OT prophet. But how can "God said" be anything other than "And the word of the LORD came to..."? I know this weird and not vary clear sorry. I just do not know how I can hold to the bible as having everything we need for "every good work" if we need the speaking of God today.

[@LD-cx4hw]

God can call out sin in people or a specific church. God can edify people. God can give clear direction to someone if they are struggling to make a decision What do you think Phillips 4 daughters prophesied about They said agabus prophesied about Paul getting tied up that similar warning can be prophesied about today for the church today

[@kennethrandolph2495]

I'm a fairly new Calvinist but have to admit I've seen or heard from very Godly men things that wasn't natural that happened to them Like a Mountain NC Hillbilly speaking Flawless Spanish while leading a Mexican sheepherder to Christ who was speaking flawless English to this preacher. Neither one spoke the others language.

[@GabrielMartinez-su8di]

A "plethora" 🤣🤣🤣 Love the reference

[@Lillaloppan]

Thank you😊

[@jacobmbush8982]

Brothers, I want to bring something to your attention. I think the phrase 'getting Gh*sty' is a violation of the third commandment. I understand that your intention with using this phrase is to express familiarity with the Holy Spirit and your enjoyment of your relationship with him, but please consider that you may be using the Lord's name in vain by using it in a humorous way.

[@cbuggy]

Watch their video with Carmen Imes so you can get a good discussion on what the 3rd commandment actually means. It has little to do with anything someone speaks.

[@jacobmbush8982]

@@cbuggy at the very least, it has to do with speech.

[@joshuaburkholder203]

Video is way to fast.

[@bridgitmorris740]

This is awesome. Durbin and Driscoll!

[@bridgitmorris740]

I actually got chills when Durbin shared his story (testimony). There is hope.

[@sitdownandcode]

If there is a man or a woman with genuine miraculous gifts of the Spirit, his/her message, by definition, is infallible. if you say a man is a genuine prophet, then by definition his word is infallible. We see a clear pattern in the Bible that the miraculous gifts are given for the authentication of the message of a prophet. I don't believe that miracles have ceased, but miraculous gifts had.

[@christopherastudillo2918]

The Egyptians in Exodus, the false prophets in the new testament ?

[@sitdownandcode]

@@christopherastudillo2918 The Egyptian priests were not genuine miracle workers. We see that when the staff of Aaron's rod swallowed their rod. And false prophets are not genuine prophets.

[@St._Jaden_P]

Paul also said that the gifts as a whole are for the common good, for the edification of the body in the growing of faith, and for the edification of oneself in regards to tongues. It wasn't all just to confirm the message of the Gospel. We still need edification today as individuals and as a church body.

[@sitdownandcode]

@@St._Jaden_P At least you must believe that the gift of prophecy and apostleship was for foundational purpose(Ephesians 2:20). The work of the prophets and the apostles is now benefiting us through the bible. As I said, all miraculous gifts, including the gift of tongue, was for the purpose of authenticating apostles and prophets.

[@St._Jaden_P]

@@sitdownandcode Paul never said that they were for "authenticating the apostles and prophets". They were for the common good, for the benefit of the church and for a sign to the unbeliever. And he even mentions about the one who speaks in tongues edifies himself. Now, the position that the 12 Apostles had is no more in that sense. No one today will ever have what they had in the sense of the authority to write scripture, saw Jesus and walked with Him and all that. There are no more prophets today as in the Old Testament. They didn't have "the gift of prophecy", rather they were specifically chosen by God for that time, just like the 12 Apostles. There are no more Apostles and Prophets in that sense, today. The office of apostle and the office of prophet are still for today. Ephesians 4:12 tells us the purpose of the 5 gifts Christ gave to the church, and verse 13 tells us how long we have them for. "Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, to the mature man, to the fullness of that which belongs to Christ." (Not an exact quote of the verse). Barnabas, James the brother of Jesus, Silas, and even Apollos are called apostles in the scripture, yet they were not part of the 12. They held the office of apostle, which is separate from the position that the 12 had. Priscilla and Aquila are considering apostles. Timothy and Epaphroditus would be considered apostles in the sense of "sent one", not necessarily holding the office of apostle. The office of a prophet is in regards to someone who could genuinely hear the God's voice and make known what God wants to be made known. We see this with the church of Corinth, they had the gift of prophecy. The church at Thessalonica, they had the gift of prophecy. Philip's 4 daughters had the gift of prophecy. Not once does Paul display that any of the gifts were to confirm that someone was an Apostle IN THE SENSE that only the Apostles would be doing these things. Yes he did tell the church in Corinth about how the marks of a true apostle was performed among them... with signs wonders and miracles. But again, to say this means that "only the apostles had the gifts", is biblical illiteracy. Philip the evangelist and Steven the deacon performed signs and wonders and miracles, and they weren't apostles. Once again with the entire church of Corinth, they all could do these things (not individually, obviously). To say that the gifts were only to confirm the apostles and prophets is absolutely wrong. It was to confirm the Gospel, as well as for the edification of the body in FAITH, and for just the common good. Meaning that it could be an entire assembly of believers, one believer can't walk, another believer lays hands and speaks the name of Jesus, and the lame believer is healed, Christ is glorified and the church is edified in Faith. And even if there was an unbeliever in the assembly and saw that occur, that would be a sign to them and they may or may not repent and follow Christ. My point is, what you are saying is biblically incorrect, as well as making a category error in regards to apostles, and i guess in regards to prophets too.

[@MrDenjok]

Click bait Was really hoping jeff Durbin and the other guys would be having a diologe with you

[@jackswager3067]

Cessationists are false teachers because the gifts of the Spirit in Jesus' name have always been active up to the present. If you teach something that is not true and is contradicted by facts, you are false teacher.

[@christopherastudillo2918]

You are part of the problem my friend

[@brucewayne2558]

10th