Unbiblical use of "Healing Gifts": When Charismatics go to far

[@djw.5958]

In 1977 I attended an Assembly of God church in Ohio. They had a visiting minister from New York. He ask for those who needed healing to come up front At that time I was 27 years old. Now I am 67. At that time I would get sharp shooting pains in the side of my legs, I don’t know why because it was only the last several months before I was prayed for. It could of been from a fall which in turn my hips may of not been aligned which in turn would give me a leg discrepancy. The minister had me sit down after I told him why I was getting prayer. He said to stretch out my legs. And to keep my eyes open. He never touched my legs or feet As he prayer I saw one of my legs move into position with the other one It was an amazing miracle for me. I was healed ! One month after receiving my healing, I felt a sharp pain again in the side of my leg. I immediately told the pain to stop in Jesus name I am healed. I never had anymore leg pain. It has been 40 years. Praise the Lord

[@taylorclark1048]

Just wanted to thank you guys soo much, I really found myself being a cessationist after listening to soo much john mcauthor /piper / sproles, I still absolutely love those guys and listen to them, however I now fully believe that all of the gifts are still in operation through the power of Jesus Christ. I have began praying for his Holy Spirit to fill me with gifts that can edify the body of Christ. I really was looking at the most extreme examples of charismatic churches and videos on youtube. I have refered yall's channel to several of my friends and they have also gotten a lot closer to God. This past month I did a 21 day prayer and fast and after several of us laying hands on an individual with faith praying that her infertility become fertile, I saw a healing miracle happen that was just unexplainable apart from the power of Jesus. The doctor told her there was no way she could have kids, and on day 17 we found out she was pregnant. That is just one of manyyyyy healings that took place.Thank you and I hope yall can keep your ministry up.

[@davidrussell631]

I can relate a lot to what you said, but just realize that John Piper is in no way a cessationist, although more and more I find the term not necessarily objective or helpful. But on the other hand, if they claim to be a card carrying cessationist, I guess they prefer the label, right? Blessings, brother.

[@kimcoffman8390]

I have come to realize that the scriptures about being healed can more often mean a spiritual and /or emotional healing. This is so much more important than physical healing. Yes, He does heal physically and is at the Father's descretion. He knows best what we need to walk out to remain close and abide in Him. I had a broken shoulder nine years ago that healed poorly and have nerve damage. Trust me, I've asked God to heal me many times from the cronic nerve pain, over the years. I've come to realize that He knew, in His soverntity, what I need to remain desperate for Him and to grow in my walk with Him. I have absolutely experienced emotional healing and growth in my spiritual closeness to Him, but have not been physically healed. I know He could still do this, if He sees fit, but eternity with Him is so much more important than this short time here. It does also build in you a more compassionate heart for others who suffer and that is needed so much.

[@assyrianrelief]

My new motto: I’m charismatic with a seatbelt. After hangin out on your channel a while. 😆👍

[@MrsMeganDyer]

I've been saying "Ghosty" so much 👻😆 I love the stuff these guys come up with!

[@assyrianrelief]

😆 👻

[@jess1987]

I've heard, Ruslan KD (another Christian KZbinr), say the exact same thing!

[@CoffeeScribe]

I was blessed to witness a man's leg (knee) be healed during a time at which he received the gospel and came to Jesus Christ.

[@Menaboucher]

We are not little gods but we do have the Holy Spirit in us. And there is power in His spirit.

[@rodnajean9508]

If everyone were meant to be healed on earth and then what would be the point of looking forward to the no more pain and no more tears of a new body and being in heaven with Jesus?

[@LGSNIKOS]

Leg growing? Why do they always have to hold the legs? I saw this at a meeting I held, it looked like a lot of strange things going on. I stepped back and the leg-growers took over. I always lay on hands, most often anointing first, and simply praying. The rest is up to the Healer.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

I remember a tall, young lady on campus who had a leg that was about 4 or 5 inches shorter than the other. She used a crutch as she walked to and from her classes. When the Happy Hunters came to campus I went as a skeptic -- because their ministry was known for limbs regrowing. Anyway, that young lady was in the audience, wearing a knee-length skirt, and she spoke up that she wanted God to fix her leg. Up on the stage I watch her leg not only grow (length) but fill out (her calf was atrophied) too. The place went bananas. That was no trick -- she had been on campus for 3 months and most everyone would recognize her because she was 5/11 to 6 feet tall, with a crutch. Other than when I felt many bones move back into place under a baby's skin during prayer -- that leg-growing incident bwas the most awesome (yes, I was in awe) healing I have seen God do.

[@bcrown_9736]

Faith is a gift from God. This is why it can be the assurance of things hoped for. If God gives it then we can be sure that he did so with an intention to fulfill the hope we have. This problem occurs when we make faith something we conjur. We don't have faith in and of ourselves it comes from God. When we receive faith from God we can be confident that we will receive the things we ask for.

[@amandawellsvenegas7024]

I recently saw a charismatic preacher trying to heal someone in a wheelchair. He was saying, “you look skeptical. Remember, you’ll be healed by the measure of your faith.” He started to pray for her. There wasn’t any mention of “if it’s God’s will” to heal her. After he prayed, he was like, “Let me see your eyes..you’re at like 85% faith..” then was like, “If I’m lying, God can strike me dead right now.” She couldn’t get up, so he moved on to someone else. I was very disturbed and felt so sorry for the young lady in the wheelchair. Even Paul had an ailment that never got healed. It kept him humble. But God makes all kinds of people with different abilities. While we can petition God for healing, I don’t think it’s right to demand healing, and then when it doesn’t happen, blame the person for not having 15% more faith…

[@corysmith8722]

Grammar typo in the thumbnail! “To“ should be “too“

[@allenbates4163]

I’ve found RHEMA teaching that originated with Kenneth E. Hagin sound.

[@MrsMeganDyer]

Yes! Agreed.

[@ruthvansandt9713]

Uh yeah no. That’s where most of this WoF false doctrine started at. It is less unsound than his teachers/followers today but still very unsound

[@allenbates4163]

@@ruthvansandt9713 uh no Ruth that was my experience. Your lack of agreement has nothing to do with my comment.

[@davidrussell631]

Actually, Kenneth Hagin’s teaching on faith, which he plagiarized much of from E. W. Kenyon, is exactly what they’re talking about when speaking of Word of Faith theology.

[@allenbates4163]

@@davidrussell631 Kenneth Hagin put out way more teaching than E.W. Kenyon. There wasn’t much for him to plagiarize. What you said had no merit to it. Everything Justin Peters says isn’t accurate.

[@maurdib]

So No Paul was not asking to be healed physically, it was persecution. "Numbers 33:55 But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then those of them whom you let remain shall be as barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides, and they shall trouble you in the land where you dwell. "

[@explodingrubberducky797]

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to [a]buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. You are right. Paul tells us what this thorn in the flesh was-A MESSENGER OF SATAN. Angelos in the greek. In English the phrase "A messenger of satan" would be considered a non-essential or parenthetical clause. It isn't important to the grammatical meaning of the sentence and thus could be crossed out and the sentence would read well. However, in this case, it gives more information about what this thorn in the flesh is-an entity. Nowhere does the passage indicate that this is a disease. At most it is a personality whether be it an evil spirit sent to give Paul trouble.

[@explodingrubberducky797]

oh and check out Praying Medic's book "Divine Healing Made Simple"

[@maurdib]

@@explodingrubberducky797 All I hear is God didn't heal him, it's so silly

[@explodingrubberducky797]

@@maurdib I agree with you. I get exasperated when people push this sort of narrative

[@maurdib]

@@explodingrubberducky797 God Bless you, may we both increase in the knowledge of him

[@lindamew626]

In a healing service I attended in the 1990's two young people were healed of major diseases and other people did not get healed at all. It seems that something else may be in play regarding healing besides the gifted healer. Some of the people who did not get healed were mad. They wanted to end all future healing services at this church. Our attitude toward God may be a factor, unforgiveness, unrepentant sin, self-righteousness, etc. may be factors in how we receive from God and how God works in us.

[@josie8740]

Also, sometimes God allows us to walk through trials so we can learn that His grace is sufficient. He is not a slot machine.

[@lindamew626]

@@josie8740 I think this may be true. I've heard teaching about believers sometimes being in a trial for ten or more years before deliverance comes. I think in some cases it is God's timing and not ours. I think we have to learn to rest in God and trust Him with our lives, our hopes, and our dreams. We see examples in scripture of this. Job is one example, Moses is another. We are God's servants.

[@LGSNIKOS]

Some people are healed on the platform, but when they get home--no healing.

[@davidrussell631]

I’m inclined to believe that’s usually evidence it’s psychosomatic and not an actual healing.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

I would venture to say that God is strong enough to make a healing "stick."

[@chargreen9940]

"By His wounds we are healed" is taken out of context all of the time. Instead of taking the whole package together of all of this passage people isogete the meaning to fulfill their own false doctrine. By His wounds our sins and transgressions, not our diseases and illnesses, are healed. I believe that is what the passage refers to. He has taken on our sins not our head colds.

[@lightlover33]

The Hebrews didnt make the separation of body and spirit when referring to personhood, and this has nothing to do with "isogete." The better arguments are that Isaiah 53 indeed refers to the WHOLE person.

[@chargreen9940]

@@lightlover33 I do not get the "whole body" from either Isaiah nor in Peter's reference. I do not know where you are getting a whole body reference? Please clarify.

[@caroleimani9754]

Why can't Jesus handle both our spiritual and physical ailments? Isn't He God??

[@caroleimani9754]

@@chargreen9940 Didn't Jesus heal people when He was on the earth (in a physical body)? Why would He change now? Doesn't the Bible say that Jesus Christ is the same: yesterday, today, and forever?

[@chargreen9940]

@@caroleimani9754 Jesus did not heal everybody while He was on the earth. The first case I can think of is the man at Bethesda. How many times must Jesus have walked by the man on His way to the temple and yet it was the disciples that healed him. I never said He stopped healing people. I hope I did not imply that. I said in the Isaiah and Peter passage it refers to our sins being healed. He was pierced for our "transgressions" and crushed for our "sins". By His wounds we are healed is in reference to healing our sin nature through His sacrifice. And if we reflect on the nature of our time here versus our time in eternity with our resurrected/glorified bodies we see that indeed "everybody" is healed. Just not in this lifetime.

[@caroleimani9754]

Also, the WOF people who are going around saying they are healed, when they are obviously sick, is based generally on Isaiah 53:5 and Mark 11:22-23.

[@MiniMaker68]

One of the hardest things for me when I was in that mess, was Knowing I was actually Lying, because it was expected of me to Not say I was sick, and of course, they thought I didnt have enough faith, but asking for prayer, believing that IF it was His will, Was me Having Faith! I had and Have faith that He will If it is His will! Good series guys!

[@elidiapearfindchannel2587]

Appreciate your prayers for healing of breast cancer. X

[@aprilwhite1794]

I pray that you are in Jesus name.

[@jeancesar212]

Thanks for sharing 👍

[@ironlion805]

“I’m 40 in the Spirit” 🤣 Bro that was so funny

[@redeemeddaughter2338]

Thank you for this episode!!

[@Inharmonics]

Remnant Radio - I really do appreciate your content. Thank you for all you do. However, could you do a video sometime focusing on true healings (and other acts of God) you have seen? The internet can make it look like the world is full of extremes, but many of us in the background just really need encouragement as to the reality and goodness of God. We face sickness and trouble, and would love to hear encouraging testimonies from people like you that we can trust. Scepticism comes naturally to us, because in the West it's practically thick in the air - and rather than endlessly dealing with charismatic "extremism" or heresy-hunting, I would love to hear of times where God does do "the stuff" for real through His servants. I've heard odd stories here and there from your guests, but would love a whole episode where real examples you've seen of all of this are focused on! Thanks so much.

[@davidrussell631]

Although I feel you guys may go too easy on Bill Johnson and Todd White, I really appreciate this very balanced and objective discussion. My issue with BJ and TW isn’t as much what they do with healing, but their treatment of the gospel. BJ has said there has to be power demonstrated for it to be the gospel, and he made it clear he was speaking of healings and signs. TW’s version of the gospel is works based, in that if you’re being sanctified you can follow his example and brag about how many years you’ve gone without lusting after a woman. And you’ll know you’re being honest, because like Todd said, “I live with myself.” Anyhow, yeah, if you’re praying for a leg to grow, pray and see if it grows. Might as well pray for the amputee’s stumps to grow out at the same time, though. Just saying. I know the Lord heals and that’s why I absolutely loved the healing testimony of Rose. God is so compassionate because God is so good! Thank you!

[@ReachOutMinistries]

Although this episode is about healing abuses and their impact, I wonder what is the impact of the other extreme of radical cessationism and exaltation of intellectualism?

[@ekchris8]

Please correct title- you mean “too” not “to”. Thank you!

[@sifender56]

Maybe “Far” is a place?! 🤔🤔🤔

[@k9felinePeru]

@@sifender56 🤷🤣

[@3ndl3ssch0as6]

pc lol

[@3ndl3ssch0as6]

should they wear a mask to lmao?

[@MrsMeganDyer]

Ahh! I didn't notice! Glad I'm not the only one who typos LOL

[@Bullseyeguy8]

What would be your response to someone who says: "That doesn't prove the gift of healing, that is simply God answering prayers." when you give example of people being healed after praying for them?

[@CharlesHorning]

Do you ever consider not labeling these "charismatic" or other labels. You likely will aid in an over correction and vilification of the label that I am sure is not your intention. But continued focus on the label rather then the issue may have that problem.

[@chrissy1374]

I want to validate what Josh is saying about trigeminal neuralgia. I experience the symptoms of trigeminal neuralgia. It could be from being floxed by cipro or from my Lyme, we don't know. Maybe it's both. It is absolutely true that it is known as the "suicide disease" because it is one of the MOST painful conditions known to man, more painful than cancer pains and child labor pains. (Added: Yes, pain is subjective, but if you've experienced this pain plus it interacting with other diseases that are of the top most painful conditions, you would be begging on your knees day and night and you would be suicidal. It breaks you. Anyone who experiences it knows. And it's relentless, as opposed to other things that only exist for a few days or a few years...this and many chronic diseases & conditions are endless and relentless with no known cure.) There exists no cures for it, modern medicine fails us who have it. It feels like being held captive by a torturer who is setting fire to your head and body, drilling into your flesh, doing all sorts of horrible things to your body and you can't escape it. It is excruciating and flares have absolutely made me wish for death. It is not a joke and no little thing. You cannot live a normal life with this if doctors fail you; it is entirely debilitating. Smiling will trigger a flare up, laughing, chewing, brushing air, brushing teeth, winking, small facial muscle movements like moving your eyebrows, turning your head, a gentle breeze on your face, showering, talking, walking, sitting, laying down, standing up....these things and many more trigger a flare up. And for those of us who have this PLUS other chronic diseases, it's a nightmare. I have this plus multiple other diseases and the way all of these diseases interact with each other makes it impossible to take anything for any of these diseases. MANY of us are in this boat. Often modern medicine performs failed surgeries and gives treatments that are a joke and don't work. Many of my friends also have this and all of them are suicidal because the pain is nearly unbearable and doctors do not help and often even refuse us pain medications that may help ease the pain a tad. All of this to say, the fact that God healed this woman of this terrible condition is AMAZING and gives all the glory to the God who is the GREAT physician! Praise God!

[@kwamebofrot2195]

Thank you for this.

[@caroleimani9754]

We are supposed to be a ROYAL priesthood and a holy nation!!!

[@pamhartwell5790]

I could not figure out how to download Send Proof, so I purchased it on a DVD.

[@josecamacho6372]

Is it God’s will for all of us to do good? To be righteous? To be saved? But are we? So yes, it is His will for all to be healed! 🙏

[@caroleimani9754]

To get it perfectly "in context," read all of Isaiah 53 and all of Mark 11. Better still read the whole book of Isaiah and the whole book of Mark (or read the whole Bible).

[@onesimustim8424]

" Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him." So clearly, the basis of faith is God's will - and KNOWING God's will. We cannot ask in total faith if we don't know we are asking according to God's will. So regarding healing - is it God's will or not? What does scripture reveal? That Jesus only acted according to His Father's instructions (will) and Jesus healed EVERYONE who came to Him or was brought to Him. That's not the only biblical proof of God's will in this matter, but it's not hard to find more if anyone really wants to know. Sadly the majority of people have been taught a watered down view of healing that compromises their ability to have faith for healing when they need it. Equally sadly is the prideful umbrage people express when they say "How dare you question my faith" when they are faced with the suggestion that they are not really putting faith into practice when they pray a double minded, 'if it be Thy will' healing prayer.

[@seanvann1747]

Excellent understanding of the truth 👏 We are called to know His will... How can we pray in Faith it we don't? It will always be a "please God I hope it is your will to heal" Romans 12:2 New King James Version And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Ephesians 5:17 Berean Study Bible Therefore DO NOT BE FOOLISH, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Be blessed my brother 🙏

[@Johnherlihy1]

I am not a word of faith person, I am completely nondenominational. However, from my experience and the word of God by revelation there is power in what we speak under the anointing. I have seen many miracles that happened when I opened up my mouth and spoke over sick bodies. This is how the Apostles saw many miracles, they simply said in the NAME OF JESUS.......... With careful study you will see this is how the Apostles saw many healings. We SPEAK to demons and they come out, and Peter spoke to the crippled man in Acts 3 and said IN THE NAME OF JESUS rise up and WALK! I saw even a miracle in my own body one time when I spoke to it. So, despite what this video says, there is POWER in our words when we speak them in faith under the anointing. And lastly, there is a strong connection with sickness and sin, as seen in almost 1000 scriptures in the bible (I know because I wrote a book on healing -very in depth, and listed HUNDREDS of scriptures that show sin can bring sickness in our life. This is so clear in the bible that anyone who denies it would have to deny almost 1000 scriptures. And the final point is that when the Apostles tried to cast out a demon and could not Jesus told them why - their little faith and lack of prayer. And in the hometown of Jesus He himself could only heal a few sick people BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF. Joshua SPOKE TO THE SUN AND MOON and said BE STILL - and the bible says it happened. JESUS SPOKE THE WIND AND WAVES, HE SPOKE TO THE FIG TREE AND IT WITHERED AT HIS WORDS, and He said NOT ONLY WILL YOU DO WHAT I DID TO THE FIG TREE ( YES HE SAID WE COULD DO IT TOO!!!) BUT IF YOU HAD FAITH (not doubt and unbelief or BAD REVELATION) YOU WILL SAY TO THIS MOUNTAIN MOVE AND IT WILL MOVE! This is what Jesus said, so despite those who come against FAITH AND SPEAKING MIRACLES BY FAITH, IT IS ALL OVER IN THE BIBLE. Jesus also said greater works we would do, and Peter did, they just touched His shadow and got healed. I could go on and on, but FAITH, SIN, AND SPEAKING all play a role in miracles and healing. One last one: And Paul SEEING HE HAD FAITH TO BE HEALED SAID (YES SAID) AFTER HE SAW FAITH, STAND UP ON YOUR FEET AND WALK!!!!! The man had faith, Paul saw it, and Paul spoke to him BY FAITH to stand up and walk and he did! GET THE REVELATION FROM THE BIBLE, AND THEN WALK IN IT, I HAVE AND KNOW IT TO BE TRUE!!!!! However, the little gods teaching is totally UNBIBLICAL.

[@Henriette-van-der-Ende]

Thank you for this excellent episode. Learned a lot, especially the term overrealised escatology is helping.

[@caroleimani9754]

I think the WOF got the idea of us being "little gods" from the Scripture that says something like this. I (God) have called you (people) gods. I'm not sure exactly where it is in the Bible. It is a misinterpretation, but what Christian group has not misinterpreted the Bible?

[@TheBdriver]

Is there some kind of mandate that pastors have to say "unpack" so many times a day like a quota or something ?

[@soteriology1012]

~@16:15 " I don't know if this is related or not but.I think it is ,.when you come from this perspective that your words have this ultimate power & your words have this creative power with that mindset; did you ever come across somebody where it's like.. they might be in a wheelchair & still saying 'I am healed. It just hasn't manifest yet.' or they might be ..you know..like the doctor says they have stage 4 cancer & they have got chemo they're struggling they're very clearly sick 'I am healed. It just hasn't manifest yet.' " My dad was a pharmacist. He was also a Jehovah Witness. He lived and died believing in JW doctrine though I tried to tell him he must be born again. Now if you know anything about Jehovah Witnesses their meetings are boring & they really do not believe in any gifts of healing. One day my dad came to me with a story that REALLY IMPRESSED HIM as being outside of his JW box. He told me that he had a customer that came in to his drug store with hands that were slowly losing their circulation. They really looked horrible gangrenous withering & discolored. Then one day the same man came into his drug store telling my dad that he had returned from a Kathryn Kuhlman healing service and kept looking down at his hands & telling my dad in excitement praising Jesus that they were healed. My dad looked at his hands & saw that they were just as horrible as ever but the man just kept praising God telling everyone his hands were healed." Though my dad looked a little strangely at him he just brushed it off thinking "OK buddy" & just let it go. Then a couple weeks later the man comes in and his hands are perfectly whole functioning just fine no discoloration no gangrene no arthritis or anything. I think when someone is healed maybe there is a feeling or a sense of the power of God making them whole that they themselves know and cannot be dissuaded by their own circumstance or any skeptic. I know myself that i once felt the power of God in healing too but I was not quite convinced of my healing like that man was.

[@radman6047]

God can heal anyone from anything. He sometimes uses vessels to deliver His healing power. The power is God’s and is from God. The vessel is just a vessel. Some people are not vessels but masquerade as such. They use parlor tricks and psychological manipulation to develop a following and make money. They serve mammon, Hinn, Copeland, etc.

[@hiskeeperathome]

You sound so much better! Praise God!

[@junebugtea6654]

I wonder if the person who asked about healers always wanting to grow legs was asking from the perspective similar to mine. As someone who has gone forward for prayer for healing of chronic illness and pain many many times, it seems like no matter how I explain what I am dealing with the person praying for me always wants to try to grow my legs. So for me it seems as if this type of prayer can be a "cure all" approach rather than actually hearing what God is saying to do. Just a thought.

[@onesimustim8424]

How tall are you now?

[@radman6047]

The Holy Ghost knows what you’re suffering from. The holy goat does not.

[@danzo8372]

Thank you so much for this conversation. Really cleared up quite a bit of things for me. Especially when it comes to recognizing and understanding the "too far charismatic" theology. Really good and I'm barely halfway and yet there was soo much value added already.. 🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@josuejcruz2015]

"Yup!" God bless. Father, be glorified.

[@ruthvansandt9713]

EXCELLENT initial summary of WoF! I was raised in it and now that I’m out- you are spot on.

[@enocheubank4424]

Lol. Such a great episode. You guys are definitely my favorite KZbin family!

[@theologymatters5127]

In response to the scripture, "Death and life are in the power of the tongue," we must remember to translate such scriptures in their genre. Proverbs is an "ism" and often contradict themselves. Also, Lamentations 3:37, "Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass unless the Lord has commanded it." [Mic dropped] 😁

[@margocarmichael6765]

What do we do with, where Jesus talked about casting the mountain into the sea, and he said if we believe, we will have what we SAY, Mark 11:22-24?

[@marybrewer2203]

What bothers me is that far too often, there is a “show biz” aspect to a lot of “healings” that are done in front of an audience, whether at a church, or in a larger venue. The focus almost always skews to the person/s that are “doing the healing”, instead of on God. No glory goes to God, only to the people who are standing around making a show of themselves….

[@lindararey8641]

I get what you guys are trying to say, and generally agree with you. But there were a couple of statements made that gave me pause. "If it's in the Bible, it's true." Not everything that's in the Bible is prescriptive. In the Book of Job, particularly, for a lot of what Job's comforters say, one must be be careful in interpreting as doctrine because in the last section of the book you have God basically saying that they don't know what they're talking about. Also, I know that the traditional interpretation of Paul's thorn in the flesh is that it's illness, but the better exegesis is that it is persecution. There are other passages that indicate Paul still suffered from the results of the beatings he received, and possibly from just growing older, but the thorn in the flesh passage has suffered from just plain eisegesis.

[@nancystorm]

Great point about people placing the Gospels above the rest of Scripture. The Anglican church does the same thing. During the service, there is an O.T. passage read, a Psalm, an Epistle, and a Gospel reading. I love that they read so much scripture. However, the Gospel is read differently from the rest of the scripture passages. The reader moves back into the congregation, to symbolize that the Gospel belongs to the people. To which I say, so does the rest of the Bible. It is all the word of God.

[@fathersdaughter9139]

The man at the Gate Beautiful did get healed. Perhaps Jesus waited to reveal God's glory after the Holy Spirit fell in Acts 3. The word beautiful also happens to a "timing" word. Peter and John did heal him. 5611 hōraíos (from 5610 /hṓra, "an hour, the time of fulfillment") - properly, a particular hour (a "season" of time); (figuratively) beautiful in timing, hence fruitful because fully developed.

[@Gaming_and_God]

Whatttt!! You mentioned Frank Hechaverria??!? He was the youth pastor of El Rey Jesus Miami, where I went to for 10 years! I used to do youtube videos for him and I was in that youth group for many years. That's insane, I had to pause the video and rewind it. Wow, I wonder what church you went to, that he went to that church also. Crazy small world, wow.

[@josie8740]

Also, Satan said (in the book of Ezekial) "I will be like God." That in essence is basically what the word of faith wolves teach. I'm convinced after doing some research that most these "teachers" are in actuality - occultists. Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation, Copeland, Dollar, Joyce Meyer, Osteen, just to name a few and there are many. I also will never watch christian television stations that have their shows in their line up. They are part of it. I used to be fooled by those false teachers.

[@stewietinktink8441]

I like it don’t deny it just confess it and give it to God. You sick you sick and you need God’s mercy and Grace, and if you broke you broke you need wisdom on how to manage your finances and/or a new job.

[@caroleimani9754]

Also back to the "little god thing." I think it was an Old Testament term that referred to something like judges, kings, or magistrates.

[@IMAGINENGINE]

Please , as you’ve mentioned, be careful with the cavalier.

[@tessab7850]

I am a member of Creflo Dollar's church and have been for 14 years. We have the failth of God BECAUSE we have faith in God. Yes, our words have creative power but WITHIN the confines of the will of GOD. We are to establish a relationship with God where we learn to know his voice, seek to discern God's will, and stand on what we believe God's will is, declare that. You shouldn't be doing any declaring independent of submitting ourselves to God and trying to speak only what we believe He is leading. The fence around all of this is submission to God foremost not independence.

[@garymarshall4375]

Rowntree says 14:04---14:07 "Strange idea that faith existed before the history of the world" Well I say to you that faith must have existed before the history of the world. Heb 11:3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made by things which do appear. ❤

[@purelyyouminerals]

I love that! "Be careful where your heart is at." I see that a lot when people critisize... so much hate. It would be one thing if it were people actually out there healing people who have a problem with other "healers" but are the critics out there doing what Jesus said to be doing (healing the sick, casting out demons, preaching the gospel, etc) ? Also, if everyone is getting "fake healed", there would have to be a lot of hush money involved. Just a thought.

[@Believefor]

My pastor asks a 250 dollar appreciation offering per year per person

[@jerrycole4098]

I couldn't pass this one up.. No question about it he's abusing his congregation.. red flag 🚩

[@andyisarobot3849]

Most charismatic services that involve healing have music and or dimmed lights and people a lot of times feel pressured to “produce” results. Todd White is a perfect example where I’ve seen him pray for someone and nothing happened but he keeps praying over them until he gets a positive result (that is probably fake) . I’m not saying that every healing is false but there are too many variables that can make someone feel pressured to say they are healed because they don’t want to disappoint anyone. When you’re praying for someone and you say “do you feel that”...they are most likely going to say yes because they don’t want to make things awkward. We shouldn’t make things so mystical....just pray for someone and know that God is in control, not us.

[@seanvann1747]

We are called to know God's will... How can we pray in Faith it we don't? It will always be a "please God I hope it is your will to heal" Romans 12:2 New King James Version And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and PERFECT WILL OF GOD. Ephesians 5:17 Berean Study Bible Therefore DO NOT BE FOOLISH, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Knowing His will and having a revelation of His love for you will cause you to have great faith that moves mountains! Thanks guys for your ministries!

[@JillCee]

Ultimately it is gaslighting to tell Christians not to be able to talk about an illness. I have even heard that to speak of an illness is declaring a curse over oneself. If I am coming to ask for prayer, I am coming in faith, especially if I am naming the illness I want gone. In all that being said, I have found that the best approach is to press into God Himself, not the healing. By pressing into God, He will bring healing emotional and spiritual trauma to pave the way for physical healing. It is not an overnight process…. We are transformed through the renewing of our minds. I know not all illnesses have trauma as a cause, but scientifically, about 75% of chronic illnesses are caused by trauma that happened in our youth. God will also work because He wants to show Himself to our medical practitioners as well. The journey really does depend on drawing close to God since the journey for each of us is different. And obviously, our time is allotted on this earth. Death in this world is inevitable. It will happen at some point.

[@lindamew626]

I think quite a few of the problems churches experience in their beliefs and practices of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are because the underlying teaching and biblical theology is incorrect somehow. I'm a believer in healing, I have been healed and delivered myself, my husband was delivered overnight from alcoholism when he was saved. My complaint is churches that seem to teach partial truths of the gifts as complete doctrines using underlying errors in the teaching.

[@purelyyouminerals]

Is anyone else seeing the hilarious ads for this episode? Healing spring water... order yours today!

[@philtucker3154]

At the risk of being that guy, it's "too" far, not "to".

[@caroleimani9754]

I think they know that by now.......

[@daystar39]

I think the reformers...even now...right now....in the reformation the letters of Paul trump the Gospels...Also Scofield most infamously dismissed the words of Jesus in favor of the apostles which is one reason , not the only one, that the Scofield Bible is abysmal....also...the context of "Jesus is good theology' is in the realm of "doubtful things" meaning gray areas....context is everything gentlemen

[@elmerbaez6784]

What happened? You're all separated.

[@jongarrison6098]

Need another “o” on “to”...since we’ve making corrections...

[@lightlover33]

No one in the WOF movement defines faith apart from the voice of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God when it comes to a theological definition. When a pontificator coming from a sovereignty-bound culture tries say it sounds like "sorcery," there is a carnal, grievous presumption of an absence of the voice of God. This is exactly why we get the chorus of slandering false accusers dividing the body. The active role of the one believing is interpreted as action apart from God. Kenneth Hagin said, "Faith grows out of the Word of God." It is frankly embarrassing that these guys haven't done more of their homework as supposed educated people.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

Although you are correct -- I think you should be more charitable. Most folks who've never been in the Word of Faith Movement really don't understand the nuances that can be found from congregation to congregation -- let alone the subset of WoF called the Prosperity Gospel. Copeland, Dollar, Crouch, Schambach, DuPlantis, Savelle, Price, and some others went WAY too far and have some teachings that are, frankly, heretical. In fact, Hagin tried to reel them in & address the excesses when he wrote the book, "The Midas Touch."

[@christineuhler8595]

There’s a pastor that says according to psalm 82:6 you are god’s.we r born of God so we r god s. As it’s in ps. 82

[@IndianaJoe0321]

That's not what the verse/psalm is talking about. It about the Divine Council, who are, indeed, gods. Read Deu 32:8-9 in the ESV.

[@eduardoan777]

Thanks to the false doctrine that my words can actually create things I spend more than a year with fear of saying things, well even till this day.

[@ClauGutierrezY]

"To"?

[@bridgeofgraceandyou5687]

Either its is active in full or it is not,, ,,

[@davidowens445]

When KZbinrs don’t spellcheck their thumbnails

[@melodystone1756]

Todd White claims he never sins, and hasn’t sinned since he was saved.

[@St._Jaden_P]

I believe that it is always God's will to heal, but we must rely on God's timing with it, whether it be right here right now, or a process, or healed sometime in the future, of in heaven. I wouldn't say that it's not God's will heal, I would say that it is God's will to heal, but it's in HIS timing, and not ours. Jesus did command us to go heal the sick, raise the dead, cast our devils, etc. Yes, there is the understanding for natural means of healing. Paul told Timothy to take wine for his stomach, or in reference in James where it says to anoint the sick with oil, or in Isaiah where it talks about using bandages, or wounds seemingly infected or so because they aren't bandaged up or softened with oil. My point is, it is God's will to heal, whether here and now, or a process, or sometime in the future, or in heaven, it IS God's will to heal, but we HAVE. TO. TRUST. HIS. TIMING! But we shouldn't forsake the use of natural means of healing either.

[@maurdib]

Using examples of people who Jesus didn't heal is not right. When anyone asked to be healed by him what was the answer and result? Did you hear in the Gospels any other person at the Pool ask for healing? Do you believe they did and he said no? The person at the beautiful gate did you read in the Gospels he ask Jesus to heal him? I didn't. Remember when he said he could do no mighty work there, was that because the power was gone or almost no one came to him? Oh and can we please get the fact that a thorn in the flesh is not a physical wound Numbers 33:55. Also Timothy stomach ever think it was the water he was drinking what was making him ill, and not the wine as the cure? Just tell me anyone whom ask him or the disciples to be healed and wasn't. Who are we disciples of again?

[@JewandGreek]

Very good. When Jesus healed by gifts of healing the gifts were dispersed by the sovereign will of God the Holy Spirit, but when people came to Jesus in faith they always got healing.

[@kimpersing3914]

I ran into a church like that they also had witches in there church (practiced witch craft.)

[@rhondarockhound622]

What if God knows that their leg needs to be pulled physically like a chiropractor would do. We can’t make rules.

[@daystar39]

I tried the leg deal once back around 1990 or so...didn't work for me...I am 100% trusting that God can use this and not offended by it I don't do it...not my thing I guess

[@jeremyyap9332]

06:22 *Tohu va-Vohu Don't make Tim Mackie sad! haha

[@davidjohnson6538]

You guys have a good show on a lot of things but you really got to do your research on the seven Mountain Dominion Theory

[@chargreen9940]

The Seven Mountain Mandate is sure something!!!

[@jokebookrally]

I was prayed for with the leg growing technique and literally felt my leg stretch out. Freaky! The video is on my channel.

[@ReachOutMinistries]

Job is part of God's Word. This doesn't mean that all that Job said and did was good doctrine to be imitated by us today.

[@onesimustim8424]

Exactly! A lot of God's Word (the Bible) isn't God's Word - that is, it's not God's personal message to His people and/or the world. A lot of it is reporting what someone did or said - that isn't necessarily expressing God's will or His ways. We need to be aware of context, such as who said or did what, why did they say or do it - and under what circumstances. Therefore before we start quoting the Bible to justify a belief, we need to be sure of the appropriate context. Job is a good example - where a group of opinionated men gather to spout their wisdom, and after they've had their say, God tells them they've been speaking rubbish - and yet today people will quote sections of what they said as if it's God's truth, because it's in the Bible,

[@radman6047]

@@onesimustim8424 Appropriate context. No cherry picking.

[@onesimustim8424]

@@radman6047 Yes, exactly - too many false doctrines and beliefs are based on cherry-picked, favoured proof texts.

[@capturehishonor9292]

You guys butchered Romans 4. Let's look at that verse in context. 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. We are admonished to follow the example of God (vs 17) and Abraham (vs 18 - 21). It is God who calls things that are NOT as though they were. Abraham did NOT acknowledge or give attention to his failing body or his wife's. Abraham was never sick. He lived to be 175 years old. HE staggered NOT at the promise of God. We can do the same. We can find God's promises, ignore our affliction and expect God to fulfill His promise. If we are missing something, or our case is an exception with God, God can reveal through his Word and revelation if we are to believe for a different course. There will be NO healing in the resurrection or in heaven. The body we receive is NOT the body we laid down. He gives us a new body. Paul gives us a clear example in 1 Cor 13. In heaven healing will not be needed since we will be fashioned after His glorious body. If it were needed, and we didn't receive it, we would die and NOT be immortal. We have to PUT ON immortality. Once we put it on, there will be no more death. YOU GUYS NEED TO EXPOUND UPON WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS and STOP MISLEADING GOD'S PEOPLE.

[@whittakerdanielj]

To claim oneself as having the power of God is to claim their self as God. I'd call that an afront to God the Creator of our bodies and breaking the commandment

[@IndianaJoe0321]

Why were the first born-again believers mockingly called "Christians?" What did others see/notice that elicited the monicker "little Christs?"

[@whittakerdanielj]

@@IndianaJoe0321 good question. Why were they?

[@IndianaJoe0321]

Because, @@whittakerdanielj , they had the power of God. Go the Holy Spirit residing in each born-again believer did miracles, signs, and wonders wherever they went -- just like Christ. Thus, they were called "little-Christs." Which is "Christians."

[@whittakerdanielj]

@@IndianaJoe0321 exactly! And amen! So you have displayed that you misunderstood my first comment.

[@daystar39]

God spoke the world into existence by faith...and I cor. 13 says the opposite of what MR said....Faith hope and love are eternal...past present and future.....there is much to critique about the WoF folks but you must get it right also....if we are serious about the healing gifts invite Judith MacNutt and Randy Clark....get the best the folks who have integrity in both camps meaning Biblical and Academic/medical....

[@josecamacho6372]

It is always God’s will for you to be healed! How can you even pray if you believe it is not God’s will? Why would you pray for anyone with doubts? Just think about it! How many times did any of the apostles said “. God, if is your will please heal them?” Not once, but always pray it is His will. 🙏 It is God’s will to heal all, but is not all of us will to be healed specially if you do not believe He can heal you. So God did not take away your will and that is why you did not get healed, Cause you did not seek healing from Him.

[@andyisarobot3849]

Jesus Christ Himself said something similar: “And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.”” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:39 Isn’t it better to pray that Gods will be done?....let me guess...that’s showing a lack of faith right?

[@JewandGreek]

@@andyisarobot3849 Jesus wasn't praying for healing. He was praying about what He was facing, and sought a different path. We should always pray that way when seeking God's will but when God's will is already known because it's revealed in Scripture there's no need to pray "if it be Thy will". That's why we don't tell people to pray that way for salvation.

[@andyisarobot3849]

@@JewandGreek so if someone is 97 years old and they are on their death bed should I believe that God is going to heal them no matter what or should I rationally understand that it could be the time that God has appointed for them to go to be with Him (assuming they are saved)? I understand that we should pray with faith believing that God CAN heal whoever he pleases but we should also know that He is God and that he can chose to say no to our prayers for his own higher purpose. Saying that when someone is not healed that it is the persons fault who prayed or was prayed for, this can do tremendous damage to this person mentally and spiritually. I have had conversations with people who genuinely believe that God can heal them and when that healing doesn’t take place they have gone into a depression because they believe that they did something wrong rather than believing that God could have them suffer through their sickness for an outcome that could ultimately strengthen their faith towards God. I recommend you read God, Greed and the prosperity Gospel by Costi Hinn...it deals with a lot of these issues head on and really helped me come to a more biblical understanding of healing.

[@onesimustim8424]

" Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him." So clearly, the basis of faith is God's will - and KNOWING God's will. We cannot ask in total faith if we don't know we are asking according to God's will. So regarding healing - is it God's will or not? What does scripture reveal? That Jesus only acted according to His Father's instructions (will) and Jesus healed EVERYONE who came to Him or was brought to Him. That's not the only biblical proof of God's will in this matter, but it's not hard to find more if anyone really wants to know. Sadly the majority of people have been taught a watered down view of healing that compromises their ability to have faith for healing when they need it. Equally sadly is the prideful umbrage people express when they say "How dare you question my faith" when they are faced with the suggestion that they are not really putting faith into practice when they pray a double minded, 'if it be Thy will' healing prayer.

[@stephanievann]

@@andyisarobot3849 I recommend you look up the section in the bible where Paul is having a difficult decision...what should he "choose" to stay on earth and continue God's work or go and be with the Lord. If that 97 year old guy still sees he can do fruitful labor for the kingdom i believe he can absolutely pray in faith to be healed and continue his race.

[@melodystone1756]

Bill Johnson believes that Christ laid aside his divinity while he was on earth. He died on the cross as a man and went to hell for 3 days. Then he ascended to heaven and took on his deity. That is not scriptural and is heresy. Bill twists the scriptures a lot.

[@susiepittman601]

Seriously. Correct your grammar in the title.

[@willykamahele620]

Feel em coming on, say Get out! Continue on

[@TheDTULSA]

Grow some courage and just say the obvious they are false prophets.

[@enocheubank4424]

1000's of people getting saved in a day isn't happening in America. (At this moment) IT IS happening in Africa...

[@jonathanwortman1451]

Like Todd white? 🤔🤔

[@Liminalplace1]

i listened to it live. Good points in many parts. But i criticise Michael Miller's approach because hes basing too much upon experience rather than the word of God. This was the problem with the Wimber approach. No where in scripture do we find a command to wait for or rely upon a leading of the Spirit before we pray for someone. Just stick to the word of God and the abuses with the charismatic ministry will level out..if those listening to the preachers held them more accountable to exegesis of scripture in context they wouldnt get away with those abuses. I for years held to experience and prayed for people to be healed. and saw answers to prayer from time to time but more hit and miss i thought it was just Gods sovereignity. Once i switched to believing the God of the word of God and acting in faith and not backing down I started expecting & seeing healings and did see medically verified healings..including third stage leukemia. Yes i saw a pastors wife die a few days after she appeared to be healed from cancer...but i still hold to the word of God rather than my exoerience. i dont adjust my theology with my experiences. Healing is a part of spiritual war. One set back doesnt invalidate the battle. Id recommend Curry Blakes DHT for a full assessment of both the scriptures and abuses. its is easy to imagine we pray in faith for people and they arent healed, than when they arent healed assessing we mustnt have prayed the prayer of faith.... even though we thought we had.. its too chalenging

[@aprilwhite1794]

In Jesus name, I pray that your wife is healed.

[@davidjohnson6538]

Check out what his church did with the whole Willow Raising of the Dead Fiasco check it out do some research

[@davidjohnson6538]

Nar