The Mapleshade Problem (ft. Moonkitti) | Warrior Cats Chats

It's not wrong to like Mapleshade, but it is important to realize the complexity of her character and her flaws. I've brought on Moonkitti to discuss her in the context of her novella, which over time has become one of the most well-known books in the Warrior Cats series.
Moonkitti's channel: / moonkitti
Cat art by Missy Dakota!
Her Patreon: / missydakota
Her Twitter: / miss_dakoart
River/DarkForest/StarClan background art by Moonkitti
Intro by Lapis Feder

[@Moonkitti]

sometimes you both love your kittens and plan to use them as a bargaining chip in your relationship for their entire lives

[@beaniebooking268]

Moonkitti BAHAHAHA

[@keiiquu]

mood

[@alinetitus2873]

Omg soooo relatable 😂😂😂🙄🙄🙄

[@snek723]

For their entire 30 minute lives

[@Feezee223]

Lol

[@purpleorangewings]

The only true victims in this book were the kits. They were in a dangerous situation from the moment they were born. They didn’t deserve what happened to them.

[@moonflight1867]

100% agree with you. The kits didn't deserve to be treated like they were.

[@aella_stormwitch3519]

They died 😢 I sobbed for awhile it was oh so sad

[@scootermcpeanuts6699]

Yeah, I’ve got like, eighty AUs where at least one of them lives, but here’s my favorite: The kits get swept down the river, but their bodies are never found, so all of riverclan pronounces them dead. Meanwhile, the kits are pulled out of the river by a mother crocodile (don’t ask what a crocodile is doing over there) the crocodile takes the three unconscious kits back to her nest where her other small crocodiles are. The three kits grow up with them and start to act more and more like them. They learn how to swim incredibly well, they grow incredibly sharp teeth, and for a while, that’s just how they live. One day, larchkit as well as one of the younger crocodiles venture onto clan territory. (This is a few weeks after mapleshade kills three cats and then dies) The first cat to notice them is stemfall who, understandably, is freaked out by the sight of a crocodile as well as one of Mapleshade’s presumably dead kits on their territory. He tells his clanmates right away and they try to take them to oakstar, but larchkit has become incredibly fierce in his time living with the crocodiles, and lashes out, believing they’re going to try and kill him. When oakstar finds out, he’s horrified at the sight of a half clan kit with a crocodile and demands they be chased out, but his warriors don’t even have to do anything, larchkit and the crocodile are already running. Larchkit is faster, as he has longer legs. When he gets back, he tells the other crocodiles as well as his two siblings what happened. The three of them are afraid of what might happen to them if the clans know about them so they swim far far away. Mapleshade, now in the dark forest, notices all the cats talking about her kits still being alive, and manages to visit patchkit while he’s asleep. She tells him to come with her. Patchkit, who has no knowledge of what his mother did after they presumably died, is more then happy to come with her. She brings him to a dark and murky pool, (in this AU, the dark forest has a pool that depicts the actions of the cats who are in it) patchkit gazes into the pool and is horrified to see an image of mapleshade standing over the dead bodies of ravenwing, frecklewish, and appledusk. Mapleshade tells her son “that could be you someday, you could seek vengance on everyone that wronged you.” Patchkit slowly backs away, saying he would never do anything like that, but as her tries to leave, dark brambles and vines block his path. Mapleshade slowly draws closer to patchkit, but petalkit managed to get into his dream. She pulls the vines away and tells patchkit to wake up. Mapleshade lets out a howl of fury as they dissapear from the dark forest, waking up. Her plan having failed, mapleshade never goes into the three kit’s dreams again. Patchkit, petalkit, and larchkit live with the crocodiles together in peace.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Fair fair. I feel like MapleShade would have been a better character if she had gotten a redemption ark, and without it she was just bland. If MapleShade has a realization during the dark forest battle, and betrayed them then was forgiven by starclan and her kits and got too join them, or atleast if she died had starclan forgive her before she faded, it would make her a much more well rounded character. Especially sense Atleast that I remember there hadn’t been any redemption arks before that in the series.

[@Clooover]

Thats so true.

[@JacquelineBarth]

“Appledusk is a filthy cheater c:” Says akira happily

[@ledbyrain]

Well, yes, but I pity Reedshine

[@JlMMOTHY]

@@ledbyrain Yes, I agree. She didn't even know about Mapleshade and Appledusk's relationship, after all, Appledusk technically cheated on her, too. She didn't deserve to have her mate get murdered in front of her.

[@cristalfalls]

He's not...

[@corajeanchickering3861]

yas!

[@thenyan3095]

*”Akria said C A L M L Y”*

[@shizcrazy6990]

With every arc I feel like the warrior code gets weaker and weaker

[@amarisrosalette3694]

Yeah...

[@amarisrosalette3694]

@TheClowderOfPizzaCats that's so true.

[@finnsnow2495]

I think that's intentional. And I hope Akira is right and soon they'll get rid of it or rewrite it. Because if it's not intentional than there is some very poor storytelling going on. If things don't change with Starclan and the code in this new series than I don't think it'll change. SPOILERS Starclan is fully responisble for this new conflict it is 100% their fault for imp Ash. It's the perfect set up for Starclan to change or for cats persepective about them to shift. The cats have had to work without Starclan for a lot of the series so that adds to it. This is the second worst thing Starclan has done since giving Tigerstar his 9 lives.

[@dragonstouch1042]

@TheClowderOfPizzaCats Leafpool’s dad was the leader and Crowfeather didn’t accidentally murder two Thunderclan cats before this

[@dragonstouch1042]

@TheClowderOfPizzaCats My point is it was bias that got her kits kicked out. If were any other Riverclan cat, the kits would’ve been spared

[@sannsanniii]

Mapleshade is probably one of the unstable characters...

[@secvlarhaze]

It was confirmed she had mental issues

[@sannsanniii]

@@secvlarhaze of course she did and I believe that. But the thing is that, I hate Mapleshade but also like her as a character. She had flaws, some huge and unforgivable, some tiny. It's just what characters are. Let's admit tho here, Mapleshade's Vengeance was MADE for us to feel sorry for her but I didn't quite budge. I did a little but that's it.

[@mothermusic2549]

Probably in BIIIIGGG air quotes

[@AnimationRAPTOR]

that’s a personal attack-

[@sannsanniii]

why am I getting so many likes?

[@mylesberman1639]

missy Dakota's drawing of moonkitty caught me very of guard, mainly because I'm very used to her simple and scribbly style, and missies is anything but that.

[@dualsolstice.]

Moonkitti*

[@chupichupyoi]

So true lol

[@kittyrainno2752]

K xD

[@kokichiouma.___88]

I like mapleshade

[@moved2799]

X_Demonic_reaper_X OwO • h u h

[@rexxy3697]

mapleshade: has kits with appledusk starclan: your kits will die greystripe: has kits with silverstream leafpool: has kits with crowfeather bluestar: has kits with oakheart starclan: yall' hear somthin?

[@numberjacksoctonauts7138]

Yellowfang had kits with Raggedpelt, and two of them died and the last one became a kit killer.

[@numberjacksoctonauts7138]

@Katerina Kaltsounis Yeah, it's been close to three story arcs since Mistystar became leader and I dunno if she's lost a life yet. Stonefur died in arc 1 and Mosskit died *before* arc 1.

[@rexxy3697]

@Katerina Kaltsounis lol yes

[@ialive9084]

@@numberjacksoctonauts7138 In the newest books it mentions that Mistystar is on her last life and many fans speculate she will die sometime in a starless clan which is the new series after the broken code

[@youshouldhydrate5018]

But they had their consequences Bluestar was deeply affected by that, you know how Yellowfang had a murderer kit, who banished her. Silverstream died. Leafpool ... HOLLYLEAF. Also, her other kits stopped talking to her, but she didnt get so much consequences since it was clear that it was starclan's fault.

[@Barnacl3_Boi]

Mapleshade is not a good person but she's a GREAT character in this novella, she reminds me of malicious people I've met in real life

[@molime8190]

No, she's not a good PERSON

[@wolfiegamerhowls4]

Moli & Me i think they mean shes interesting to read about her, Or they make her sound like shes good in the book, but shes not good

[@molime8190]

Sinning Flower, that's my dog, her name is Moli

[@lykhra2178]

WolfieGamerHowls I think Moli meant that she’s a *cat* and not a *person* XD

[@molime8190]

@@lykhra2178 you get me

[@appleitskiwilegendleopard384]

I feel like Mapleshade has the most mixed feelings in the fandom. Just my opinions~

[@joellabauza1936]

Or Ashfur

[@appleitskiwilegendleopard384]

@@joellabauza1936 The fandom is pretty divided on him too, I agree

[@flurryhowl9277]

The most divided cats in the fandom in my opinion are Crow and Night, in my opinion. If you love Crow, you probably hate Night. If you love Night, you probably hate Crow. There's rarely ever any inbetweens

[@brooker7624]

I love night, and I’ve always kinda hated crow. but when Crowfeather’s Trial came out I personally then liked him. But I still love night much more than crow. So I’m kinda in between??

[@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160]

brooke R Why would you love Nightcloud? She once scratched Crowfeather on the leg for some reason, if I remember correctly. I mean, isn’t that abuse?

[@WanderingRoyal]

As someone who hasn't read the Warriors series but still likes the lore and world, Mapleshade was one of those characters I was confused by. Mostly due to the way people portrayed her, either as a villain or a victim. But I agree with Moon. She should just be a pure nasty villain. If she never showed remorse to begin with it wouldn't make sense for her to change. Plus I love me a good villain...or bad villain? You know what I mean.

[@Alexi0s]

Wandering Royal yep

[@rainthedreamer6713]

It (sorry I accidentally commented)

[@ArtsieWolf]

Well this book is by Mapleshade’s point of view and her in eyes she is the victim. Of course that isn’t true but it’s how she portrays herself.

[@pense_6492]

Read them 😆

[@prcervi]

for a number of people this was their first true encounter with an unreliable narrator an alarming number didn't pick up on the part where she'd been lying through her teeth from the start

[@koi_bee]

My opinion on Mapleshade: Personally, I love her, but I hate when being grouped with the other people who like her. I like her because she is a villian, I don't condone her actions, in other words, similar to alot of other villains, I *love* to *hate* her. Her actions are not justifiable, although it is fun to make theorys, saying she was innocent is a huge lie. Just my opinion though! Everyone is aloud to have their own!

[@aspenpawarts9333]

MøønKreationz The Gay I agree (besides murdering AppleDusk I think that one was atleast a bit justified) MapleShade would have been perfect for a redemption ark tho. Okay picture this: MapleShade is about too go into battle, when she sees the ghosts of her kits. They cry out too her, and she has a realization. She then decides too turn on the dark forest and kills an important cat saving a main characters life (preferably one of AppleDusks descendants) Then A. Dies and is finally forgiven by starclan and is surrounded by the ghosts of the cats she loves as she dies, or B. Is welcome back into starclan, where she can finally redeem herself fully. Maybe not those exactly but something along those lines if you understand what I mean. I think that would have been a perfect conclusion too her character IMO. It might be she was about too kill a cat she she is related too then has the realization, etc. Just along those general lines.

[@brandoncamacho5532]

MøønKreationz The Gay Do you mean condone instead of condemn?

[@koi_bee]

@@brandoncamacho5532 Yeah- lemme fix that-

[@oliviab.9194]

I also love to hate her.

[@oliviab.9194]

I actually took the things cats said to her personally, because Her actions mirror my personality.

[@etaddie3832]

I only like her as a villain. Her plan to take over almost succeeded, and her actions werent justified, but you can see why she did her evilness

[@silverfang1158]

She was driven, betrayed by the one who she thought only loved her, and was kicked out of her clan along with her kits(which was pretty crual of them to do that to kits if they remember one of the codes for them)

[@RmeowNalu]

yea your right about that

[@pratyushmittal7826]

@@infinitepossibilities2862 cause she killed ppl for no reason

[@pratyushmittal7826]

*well for made up reasons, accept appledusk

[@g.d.graham2446]

Even if it was still evil, I imagine you meant that you could see how she was reasoning?

[@Cheeseballzzzz]

Who else loves Moonkitti's design in this video? Edit: WOAH I'VE NEVER GOTTEN SO MANY LIKES ESPECIALLY NOT SO FAST THANK YOU!!!

[@Unknown-dw1ng]

I don't really like it

[@blue_sockz7771]

Me

[@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160]

Me :) it’s really cute

[@blue_sockz7771]

@@jayfeatherthesnarkymedicin8160 agreed!

[@kittyshenanigans5678]

I love it

[@swampthelizard]

The only thing I'm thinking while watching this is: *D A R K F O R E S T*

[@dualsolstice.]

Same

[@moss7245]

Its... the DAK FOSET

[@swampthelizard]

Hm? Foset...?

[@moss7245]

Vanessa Billings I am quoting Starkits prophecy, Moonkitti animated quite a bit of it

[@swampthelizard]

Ohhh... I see... sorry bout that

[@ragepilled]

Nobody: Not even a single soul: Mapleshade: *I AM ABOVE THE LAW*

[@scourgemcedgelord9263]

ShadowWasTaken Well, she is... (Don’t ask how I know that)

[@oliviab.9194]

Congratulations on 69 likes! I am not one of them, sadly, this is because if I was then it would be 70.

[@moonfirelight9236]

She is cause she's a cat lol

[@Alexi0s]

HAH

[@Audrey-it5em]

r/entitledparents

[@umok5399]

This is entirely my opinion, so please respect it: To be honest, I don’t like Mapleshade. I think she’s very selfish and greedy for everything she has done but.. Oakstar wasn’t being fair on her at all. Banishing a queen and her kits is too far, even for lying about who the father was. If this applied to every other cat, Bluefur and her kits would be rogues. So would Fallowtail, Silverstream etc. I find it interesting how the Erins made it okay for other cats but really dramatic for others. Mapleshade still murdered cats, and not just any. She murdered her mate and her own medicine cat. At this point, she didn’t know what to do, her life was spinning around her. Appledusk acted a bit too selfish, but I don’t think I can blame him. He truly loved Mapleshade but he couldn’t let go of his clan like that as he had too much to offer. I still don’t like how a leader could banish a queen and her kits but let a tom stay. I also think that Mapleshade was to blame for her kits deaths. It was really dumb to cross the raging river with three helpless vulnerable kits. The saddest part is that, her kits never saw her as a mother figure again after what she had done. It’s true the book kind of rewards the bad behaviour but in the end, the kits she had killed for were never pleased. They ended up in Starclan with their father, horrified at what their mother had done.

[@sofialozano4031]

I think that one thing that could have been done was to have Oakstar keep Maple as a prisoner until the kits are weaned and banish only her. She, not wanting to lose her kits, steals them and then they go to the river and they end up drowned. This also could have worked with him banishing her right away. That way, it would actually look like Oakstar had genuine concern for the kits and it was actually Maple's fault for them drowning.

[@youshouldhydrate5018]

@@sofialozano4031 sounds like a great idea.. Like, I dont believe that if Oakstar didnt banish kits too, the kits would have survived, it would probably not change their fate, mapleshade would probably go there and take them anyways and lead them to their deaths.

[@infinitepossibilities2862]

@@handle9510 yeah, but whatever you think of the mother/father, that's noreason to punish innocent kits. its not like they could have changed anything

[@dragonstouch1042]

@@ghostykatze I think that one of the lessons in this book is that lashing out in grief has horrible consequences in the end that only continues to cause suffering

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

@@sofialozano4031 Oakstar didn't know that Mapleshade would be so careless with her kits. Besides he and Ravenwing truly believed that the kits RiverClan heritage would make them liabilities and Mapleshade did intend to raise her kits to serve both their clans' equally which threatened to compromise both clans.

[@yousaysilver]

It took me way too long to realize that we weren’t talking about SkyClan’s Frecklewish

[@NapaCat]

Honestly I think they just reused lesser-known characters' names. Ravenwing is the name of a COTC character too.

[@nectar2636]

True. There's two Shimmerpelt, two Sparrowpelt, two Ashfur, two Darkstar, so on and so forth...

[@blondeashfur3445]

Well they do reuse character names. You all remember Ashfur right? *Y'know, that one Shadowclan elder from the first book. Yeah what a great character.*

[@WulfWhistle]

Something that bugs me about the fandom's take on this book is that so often in maps it seems like they cut out Appledusk protecting Reedshine. Mapleshade always seems to kill Appledusk on purpose in animations and I get it probably works better for the song or the aesthetic, but a lot of people in the fandom don't read the books, and I think that's part of the reason he's viewed as irredeemable is that people just don't know any more nuanced take of him outside 'dirty cheater'. Which he is. But also other traits.

[@nectar2636]

He also went into the river to check the kits, but then found out they were dead, which to him (and is) Mapleshade's fault. So it's reasonable he's angry. IDK, havent watched any PMV's or MAps in a while, since they dissapoint me.

[@nectar2636]

@Breezepelt the Banana This is so annoying. They take the maps for granted and base their opinions and facts from that, EVEN though the main source is in the books themselves. Obviously fanwork isn't 100% reliable, and things can change drastically due to like the telephone effect. A single change or headcanon or even leaving something out in a pmv can become something defenders use to defend their statements (if that sentence made sense idk).

[@mckaylamarille8630]

Yes, Appledusk was definitely a selfish, cheating scum, but I don't believe he deserved DEATH. Are we going to forget he also saved Mapleshade's life in the river? And how he was trying to protect Reedshine, his PREGNANT and vulnerable mate when he died? I don't mean to downplay the time and effort that is put into them, but I find it annoying how maps, pmvs/amvs leave stuff like that out, but not "Mapleshade cried herself to sleep aaaa, her kits died"

[@nectar2636]

@@mckaylamarille8630 I could not agree more. I know right, it was justified because Mapleshade aimed to kill a pregnant queen first, and that's obviously wrong to do. So Appledust protected her. And since he's her mate, he even has more right to do so. He even saved Mapleshade's kits and later when the kits were washed away, he was the one searching for them as well! So yes, he is pretty terrible, but better than Mapleshade (morally).

[@youshouldhydrate5018]

@@innerbeast2951 appledusk gave his life for reedshine and people still think he should have gone to the Dark Forest.

[@b1acksol]

Here’s the thing. She lies to Crookedstar as well. She knows well that she herself can’t do anything so Mapleshade has the bright idea to go to a seemingly helpless kit to do her evil bidding. She pretends to be a StarClan cat to catch Stormkit (or Crookedkit)’s attention. She then follows through to help him. She tells him who he can and can’t talk to. And when he disobeys her, she becomes furious. Why? She’s selfish. She then proceeds to keep acting like a StarClan cat for Crookedjaw’s trust. Maple’s trying her best to make him leader and full-on manipulates him to leave Hailstar to the rats (literally) which would make him leader. I believe she wanted him leader because Mapleshade already knew that she had control over him as his ‘guardian angel’ and once he becomes leader, Mapleshade will continue to whisper in his ear to get what she wants. To have power over RiverClan. Showing them her *vengeance* (see what I did there? Ha! I’m hilarious) and once Crookedstar finds out she’s from The Dark Forest he proceeds to hate her. No matter how far she’s gotten him. Mapleshade doesn’t like this fact and that’s where I’m going to leave this essay. My point is already proven (or their point that I’m helping) since Mapleshade isn’t only selfish and manipulative in her super edition.

[@swirlyopalzofficial]

You had all of this time do type a whole paragraph? 0_0

[@b1acksol]

I did

[@b1acksol]

[@strangechimera9538]

Was reading this, idk if you’ll see thing but wanted to let you know you did a good job

[@inserttotallynotusedbywest1376]

She’s basically a Karen warrior

[@MARRYME2DPLEASE-]

DONT DO THAT TO HER AUGHH

[@gwendolynniccolls3031]

Who doesn’t think her actions are justified (don’t get me wrong I still hate Appledusk) but loves her cause good female villain for once. Also, personal opinion: I don’t like when people try and say, “She didn’t do anything wrong!” I like her because she’s a villain. I feel like the novel tried to justify her actions, but I haven’t read it in awhile so idk. ⬇️

[@catnipcrash]

I agree with all that, except that I do kinda like her novella

[@littlefox_100]

Ye I’m like 100

[@aspenpawarts9333]

I think her actions weren’t justified, but being sent too the dark forest forever too rot alone and never getting a redemption ark or anything isn’t either

[@Povejmikatrina]

I used to glorify Mapleshade and thought she was ABSOLUTELY justified in killing three cats. But she was not. She was horrible, even though her three victims weren't innocent either. But at least they never actually killed anyone. Mapleshade was in the wrong for thinking that nothing could go wrong. Almost all the other cats in forbidden relationships did know that this was wrong (well...except for Graystripe and Silverstream) I think Mapleshade could have actually had Psychosis. Her not thinking about the consequences of her actions and the hallucinations of her dead kittens are very much confirming this.

[@Thornblix]

Yes Same opinions here!

[@siqxyre8473]

The Fluffy Nickit Mapleshade is definitely 100% a narcissist

[@aspenpawarts9333]

I think killing AppleDusk was atleast a bit justified, not really the oth

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Winter White fair, she sort of deserved it, but not as much. I still think AppleDusk was on her hit list tho.

[@Thornblix]

@@aspenpawarts9333 I think She was deciding who to kill And then She went for reedshine cause She was pregnat And She did not want appledusk line to continue

[@novaryxi]

Mapleshade was so manipulative she manipulated herself into believing it was all Frecklewish’s fault, Ravenwing’s fault, and Appledusk’s fault

[@JlMMOTHY]

I agree. I cringed when she went as far as blamed Appledusk for her kit's deaths. He didn't know they they even died until he saw Mapleshade standing over her children's bodies. Appledusk is 100% justified for breaking up with Mapleshade. Not so much for cheating, but he didn't deserve to die

[@novaryxi]

@@JlMMOTHY Yep. 100%. Mapleshade was a psychopath

[@DoctorWhoXIII]

Finaly, i waited years for a video like this one, Appledusk, Freckle and Crow need more love in this fandom

[@nectar2636]

Frecklewish deserves big love.

[@shrimpcravings7134]

MapleShade is SUCH a Karen. *Scoff* “AppleDusk, I DEMAND to see your manager. It’s YOUR fault my kits died and it’s YOUR fault I murdered 2 of my ClanMates! I demand you’d be fired AT ONCE.” -Quoted directly from the Book

[@aspenpawarts9333]

I mean... when you think about it it *is* his fault

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@aspenpawarts9333 Did you watch the video? Mapleshade chose herself to kill other cats, and Appledusk tried to save the kits, and he was even the one who stopped Mapleshade drowning as well.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Brishti Sengupta MapleShade didn’t choose too kill the kits, she did unrightfully kill two cats (if she was going too kill should have gotten OakStar instead...) but her religion also supported her in her eyes, and she thought she was doing the right thing. Starclan should have stepped in. Also AppleDusk tried too save his kits yes, but it’s not like MapleShade tried too kill them... and he did save MapleShade from drowning but is that just basic sense? If you see a cat drowning in a river and you know how too save them you save them. AppleDusk also cheated on MapleShade, blamed her for something not her fault, then also left her too die while she was even more in shock, cold, and wet. Also while 100% okay with DarkStar not even going their kits a proper burial. You cannot say AppleDusk was a good cat

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@aspenpawarts9333 Where did I say Mapleshade killed her kits on purpose? The argument "it's not like Mapleshade was trying to kill them" is weak regardless, it's the bare minimum of being decent, the fact they died is still bad when you could easily argue Mapleshade's carelessness caused it to happen. You're missing the point anyway, OP joked that Appledusk was the reason the kits died and Mapleshade killed cats, and you agreed with that. I've already pointed out how both those things aren't true, and you even agreed in your later comment that Appledusk tried to save the kits and Mapleshade did kill cats who didn't deserve it, so you essentially agree with me that your earlier comment is untrue. But you've brought up a lot of other stuff as well, so I'll address that. Firstly, just because she thought Starclan supported her doesn't mean they have to step in. It's not their job to police everyone when they are clearly in the wrong. A cat with any sense would know Starclan wouldn't approve of breaking the warrior code, and then going on a killing spree, so it's not Starclan's fault Mapleshade believed what she did. Breaking rules they had set out is a very obvious sign Starclan doesn't approve. Religious fanatics who murder also think their religion is on their side, are they justified as well? The fact Mapleshade thinks Starclan is on her side after breaking the warrior code two times shows she doesn't really care what they think, she's just projecting her own beliefs on them to make herself feel better. Secondly, they weren't "leaving her to die", she was physically capable and if you look at a map of the old territories, there is a twolegplace VERY close to Riverclan camp (which Darkstar would have known), which is exactly where she went. So they could reasonably assume she wasn't in immediate danger. Thirdly, we don't know how Appledusk felt about it all, but he couldn't keep arguing with Darkstar anyway because he was on thin ice already. Also, you're kind of glossing over Appledusk saving Mapleshade and trying to save the kits. You're saying it's the kind of thing any cat would do, but it's not. Only cats who are at least a little decent would bother, and it completely contradicts when you agreed the Appledusk caused the kits' deaths. Appledusk isn't a good cat, but he didn't deserve to die, especially since he gave his life to save his pregnant mate's life.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Brishti Sengupta I agree with you on all these points but starclan. Starclan should have sent her a sign or tried too help her, and you can’t say it’s because she broke the code because they support FireStar, and other protagonists who have broken the code more times then MapleShade. Starclan still speaks too FireHeart after he helps RiverClan and lets GrayStripe be with SilverStream, and BreezePelt still isn’t in the dark forest because even though he killed cats and didn’t defect in the battle. I’m saying Starclan are massive hypocrites, and should have and could have sent a sign too MapleShade. They could have prevented the dark forest battle, and literally every other dark forest cat from becoming evil (some might still have but probably not as many) if they had helped MapleShade or even taken a few minutes too help her unstable what she did was wrong, instead of sending Firepaw the 14th dream about how pretty SpottedLeaf is a few years later. But AppleDusk still shouldn’t have been excused. He saved her life yes, but also didn’t even protest his children being left without a funeral or even let his wife stay the night. I know he probably couldn’t have protested but I’m saying he should have tried too do something too help MapleShade, even something as small as slipping her a mouse before she goes would have probably gone a long way. I’m saying that if any point had these cats shown her kindness it all might have been prevented. If they at least let her stay the night and give her kit a burial, she would be much less likely too go on a murder spree.

[@dilbertbilbertcrabbert1868]

I don’t get why Mapleshade took the flooding river which a warrior and apprentice had drowned in a few moons ago. Isn’t there a shallower part of the river in the Thunderclan territory? The one that connects to Shadowclan under the Thunderpath? Why didn’t she take that, or use the edge of the Thunderpath to go over the water? Or go to the Twoleg place temporarily? Or carefully cross the Thunderpath? Or wait at the border for a Riverclan patrol? There are so many options then taking children over a flooding river in bad weather that cats have drowned in.

[@TDIdialgagirl]

There was a bridge that allowed ThunderClan to cross to go to Gatherings that she could have used. Also, she should have found a dry place to feed her kit and let them rest, before making the next move

[@MelonTartVA]

@@TDIdialgagirl But nope, she just HAD to go straight to Riverclan, no stops or alternate paths.

[@clobertina8176]

Yeah, she could have just found shelter and waited out the storm

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

I think Mapleshade's reckless disregard her kits' safety is an example of her delusions.

[@Robots_With_Anxietyyyy]

I'm actually voice acting Reedshine in a adaptation of Mapleshade's vengeance

[@brianna.1561]

cool

[@Lexithepoptart]

Mapleshade is an interesting character, but I’ve grown to despise her because of people painting her as an innocent mother driven mad with grief. Like what the heck?

[@nectar2636]

I agree whole-heartedly I come from hating her/being super dissapointed in her. At first, I was neutral, just preparing to see a great villain, due to the fandom hyping her up too much. And I read... this... Which makes me hate her more, I guess.

[@MelonTartVA]

Yeah, MapleShade is 1 of 3 cats I personally hate for actions and personality. The other 2 being Thistleclaw and Ashfur.

[@g.d.graham2446]

Indeed

[@g.d.graham2446]

@@MelonTartVA Fair point

[@laurenzsidefan8164]

No

[@insectcat7057]

This is why Mapleshade is one of my favorite villains. She was not justified in ANY WAY, and that's what makes her a villain that I enjoy. I also think that her novella could have shown less pure luck and more actual skill that we see later. I agree with you 100%, Akira.

[@deerprynce]

Mapleshade literally attempted to kill a woman she knew was pregnant and people continue to defend her. She’s genuinely one of my least favorite characters just because of how people in the fandom treat her. I feel like 90% of die-hard Mapleshade fans have only watched AMVs from other Mapleshade fans. I’m saying “fans” as in people who defend her actions, not people who think she’s interesting or just like her demeanor. Oh also throwback to the time someone accused me of being a Nazi sympathizer because I said “Ravenwing was just doing his job”

[@moist_dust]

I love mapleshade and I know she is a terrible cat but I do love most villains sooo

[@wolfiegamerhowls4]

Half Face why did you say “soooooo”

[@lucilucid]

Breezepelt: **Tries to Kill a Pragnat Wamon** People: *D:* Mapleshade: **Tries to Kill a Praganan Wamon** People: *:D*

[@ne0njuice782]

Mac Breezepelt was a bad person. Maple shade was too. The reason I like Mapleshade was beacuse of her role in Crookedstar’s Promise and how amazing she was as a villain. I don’t sympathize with her at all, she was a awful person and that’s why I like her. She’s just interesting and I’m not justifying her actions.

[@catmeowing4329]

Agreed.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

Mmmmm Mapleshade callout posts fuel my soul

[@firenkyo8073]

Something not mentioned in the video is how people often portray Reedshine as a bitchy, stuckup cat - How? She had no idea about Mapleshade and Appledusk's relationship, only finding out when Mapleshade drags her 3 dead kits to Riverclan camp. She had no idea that Appledusk was cheating on her, and honestly? She's justified in hating the girl that her cat husband cheated on her with.

[@JlMMOTHY]

I agree. She didn't even know that Appledusk and Mapleshade were together, and Appledusk cheated on her too. She is not to blame for Appledusk’s decisions. Secondly, she was pregnant when she was being attacked, and people still think Mapleshade is okay for trying to murder Reedshine, who has next to no association with her banishment.

[@ccowpoke]

@@JlMMOTHY Agreed. Mapleshade was never really a victim, she was manipulative, abusive, and abused her kits deaths to get into river clan, which, clearly failed, but still. Honestly the real the victims were Reedshine, she was completely innocent, and her whole family line such as crookedstar, etc, etc was tormented by her, I swear, people make her seem like a terrible person, but all she said was "leave Mapleshade! You have caused enough trouble for tonight", which, was completely true! Mapleshade /had/ caused lots of trouble. The other victims were her kits, they literally deserved nothing they went through. Warriors fans really need to stop over-victimising villains, like, cmon.

[@violetmoon2298]

I agree, only, she definitely was stuckup. she was rubbing all over appledusk in front of maple, and hissed at maple to go away, saying she'd caused enough trouble for one night. you can't tell me that's not petty! rubbing it in that she had appledusk, when he's not even prize worthy

[@cozmicdoodles7167]

It's been a long time since I read Maple's book, and WOW I never realized how possessive she is over Appledusk! No wonder he was so ready to ditch her for someone else. (not justifying cheating, but the way she treats him like an object that belongs to only her is gross)

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

Talk about a toxic relationship!

[@JlMMOTHY]

Mapleshade wasn't blinded by greif, she was blinded by guilt. she ultimately knew that there is nobody to blame for ker kit's deaths but herself and used their deaths as justification for killing innocent cats who had little to no association with her children drowning. she was never a good person.

[@AmberDrawsStuff]

She didn’t kill her kits though…

[@zea_animates_it]

@@AmberDrawsStuff By that we mean she caused the kits death. She made her kits cross a dangerous river in bad weather instead of going somewhere and wait for the weather to calm.

[@AmberDrawsStuff]

@@zea_animates_it Yes, I know. I’m talking about how even though she put her kits in a dangerous situation, she didn’t know what happened would happen. And, she tried to save them.

[@ThePromisedFall]

@@AmberDrawsStuff she was trying to cross a loud crashing river with rain and she knows they can’t swim. That already has red flags of drowning or falling off the small stones

[@AmberDrawsStuff]

@@ThePromisedFall Yes, but she thought she would be able to save them if she was there. Obviously, she wasn’t able to save all 3 of them.

[@yourlocaldork4497]

I completely agree with everything, however I’d like to point something out, Mapleshade knew of Reed and Apple’s relationship, while Reed was confused, cheaters don’t let the person they’re cheating on know of the relationship, so it’s possible Reedshine was getting cheated on. I love Reedshine, and the possibility of Appledusk cheating on her further drives Mapleshade from the justifiable point she may have reached before due to the fact the Reed was probably with Apple first, she tried to kill REEDSHINE and Apple protected her, killing him instead. Apple loved Reedshine more, and Reed was carrying unborn kits. Appledusk isn’t a character we see very often and I wish he and Reedshine were explored more so we could know the full story.

[@fabplays6559]

I always thought that was what everyone was talking about when we called Appledusk a dirty cheater, but I assumed Mapleshade didn't realise that Reedshine and Appledusk were together, she just assumed Reedshine had a crush on Appledusk. See, Mapleshade expresses shock when she realises Reedshine is pregnant and is like "she must have been pregnant already since it's been too soon!!", which indicates Appledusk and Reedshine were already mates and Mapleshade didn't know. This means that both Mapleshade and Reedshine were technically "cheated" since neither were aware of the other, but yeah.

[@_beanbag_2545]

Honestly, I have suspicions that people just defend Mapleshade because she’s a female villain, the first one in the series in fact.

[@user-rn7lc6dl8g]

Exactly now that sleekwhisker is here things change

[@audge-audge]

I really like Mapleshade, and I hadn't even noticed that.

[@oliviab.9194]

@@user-rn7lc6dl8g Oh I absolutely HATE Sleekwhisker!!!! I HATE HER SO MUCH!!!! I JUST WANT TO IMPALE HER TO A WALL, RIP HER EYES OUT, AND THEN BLUDGEON HER WITH A KNIFE!!!!!!!!!

[@user-rn7lc6dl8g]

Olivia B. Same but I’d also like to say I hate frecklewish as well. She’s takes the word annoying to the next level, man she’s so bad if there was a contest about the most annoying warrior cats, she would even beat Berrynose at it

[@oliviab.9194]

@@user-rn7lc6dl8g actually, I hate Frecklewish too.

[@weelo6595]

me: sympathetic for Mapleshade *watches video* Also me: time to re-read mapleshade’s vengeance I still like Mapleshade, but not as a misunderstood cat, but as a mentally unstable vilain

[@totallynotapieceofcheese1852]

MAPLESHADE'S A KAREN MAPLESHADE'S A KAREN MAPLESHADE'S A KAREN-

[@k.howard6937]

Umm I would like to speak to your manager lol

[@aspenpawarts9333]

How?

[@totallynotapieceofcheese1852]

@@aspenpawarts9333 she's e n t i t l e d and r u d e

[@aspenpawarts9333]

@@totallynotapieceofcheese1852 WDYM? Please elaborate

[@totallynotapieceofcheese1852]

@@aspenpawarts9333 did you... did you pay attention to the video?

[@justtj8085]

"Mapleshades real fault was just in being orange" - Moonkitti 2020

[@blondeashfur3445]

Mapleshade: *has a few orange patches* Firestar who is completely orange: *Am I a joke to you??*

[@songbird6414]

I feel like she was a victim of circumstance in some way, but she overreacted severely by endangering her kits and turning to murder, which is what makes her such an interesting villain.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

songbird 64 her kits death wasn’t her fault, but the murder was. Although I think being left too rot forever was undeserved

[@nectar2636]

Hmm, I think her death IS her fault, all her actions leading into a big consequence: her death of her kits and herself.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

@@nectar2636 I mean- do you mean Bluestar did just as bad as Mapleshade? She had almost the exact same circumstances up until when Maple was kicked out and she left.

[@nectar2636]

@@aspenpawarts9333 Well, no. How Bluestar acted is totally different than how Mapleshade acted. Almost exact the same, but one had a more better way than the other. And there are many reasons why, but mostly, Bluestar made better decisions (while not best, because really, there isn't 'correct ways') than Mapleshade.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

@@nectar2636 How was Blue different from Maple up until being caught?

[@juniperz58]

Everybody: Mapleshade is evil, but for a reASon Bright Guardian Akira: I don't like mapleshade to much... Me: I LOVE HER SO MUCH SDJSDBAJDD

[@zayamoone]

SAME

[@blue..BIRD.]

Same I love her lol

[@RowanthekittydogOwO]

same

[@nokitynok]

Same, she's great

[@Spectacularizm]

Meh I strongly dislike her but I'm fine with every bodies opinions

[@moss7245]

I feel like the cheating part of Appledusk was kinda sucky, but him dumping her felt COMPLETELY justified. He only showed coldness and detachment from Mapleshade after she got her kits killed. He seemed to truely care for the kits, he was heartbroken and angry at Mapleshade for causing their deaths. (This is just my perspective)

[@GalacticMoose96]

I think he should have avoided Mapleshade when she started displaying unhealthy obsession with him.

[@moss7245]

@@GalacticMoose96 oh definitely agreed. Mans should have gotten out of that relationship LOOONG AGO

[@Onyxseyes]

Not even a perspective because that’s what literally happen in canon

[@siliconsulfide8]

I think you could also interpret some things as not wanting to be kicked from Riverclan himself. He was cautious, didn't want to risk the relationship being found out, but confessed and apologised to his leader and turned against Mapleshade as one might do to still be trusted by friends and their other mate.

[@shizcrazy6990]

Yes if you are a fan of Mapleshade, don't read this because you will get the strong urge to hate on me. I believe that she is truly an evil cat, not innocent or misunderstood. Most of the things she went throug was the effect of her own pride, thinking she can do anything without a problem. Her own arrogance caused her kits to die, her loved ones move away from her. Also, she thought she was above the warrior code. When she says "What does it matter that their father is in a different clan?" And "They won't know or care" She thinks despite the warrior code they will let her in as a rule breaker. Has she not read the first arc i mean seriously

[@aspenpawarts9333]

My opinion: Killing the people besides AppleDusk, yes. Evil. Bad. Being left too rot forever without any chance at redemption? Not deserved.

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@aspenpawarts9333 She didn't want redemption though. She was shown to be happy to be in the Dark Forest at the end of her book. It's not a case of her not having a chance because in the early (and even later) books she is the most cruel and respected warrior in the Dark Forest. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@aspenpawarts9333 Also, I think Appledusk's murder was unjustified too, but either way, she wasn't even trying to kill him. She was trying to kill his PREGNANT mate and he got in the way. That should be considered, everyone she actually tries to kill is pretty much innocent.

[@essaytime]

@@brishtisengupta7180 she was trying to kill him. She did attack Reedshine when she got in a way, but the one she wanted to kill was Appledusk. Here you have the fragment (the only problem is that I read Polish books, not English, so I'll translate it, but it won't be word by word the same like the one in your books.): ,,A heartbeat later, a pale - brown cat with broad shoulders and a sleek, shiny fur came from the ferns. Appledusk! It was the next time when StarClan led the prey right into Mapleshade's paws."

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@essaytime Alright, you got me there, she was intending to kill Appledusk, but she couldn't actually manage to do it when she was fighting him one on one. She only managed to kill him when he jumped to defend his pregnant mate. Reedshine didn't get in the way per se, she just arrived and Mapleshade decided to kill her even though she was completely innocent. Appledusk dodged away. “Just leave!” he gasped. There was a crackle of stalks behind him and Reedshine appeared. “What’s going on?” Her gaze fell on Mapleshade. “What’s she doing here?” Half-blind with fury, Mapleshade hurled herself at the orange she-cat. “You and your kits must die!” she screeched. “Appledusk is mine!” She unsheathed her claws, aiming for Reedshine’s face. That was an extract from the book. Reedshine didn't even get in the way, Mapleshade just attacked her. So as you can see, she did in fact want to kill Reedshine, not just appledusk.

[@aikoaikoaikoaikoaikoaiko]

i dont understand why people hate reedshine, it wasnt her fault appledusk cheated on her… she was nowhere as possessive as mapleshade

[@Catpixeled]

I mean she did tell a grieving mother that she had, “caused enough problems” like she didn’t do anything wrong but she was an jerk.

[@karahjackson855]

Mapleshade is overused and overrated. Her being overused takes the power out of her presence in other books, and makes her less likeable to me.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Karah j how so?

[@karahjackson855]

@@aspenpawarts9333 I feel like she's just really hyped up. Dont mistake me, I liked seeing a female villain who had power, but I just got really tired of mapleshade being portrayed as this innocent mother who was wronged by everyone. As they said in the video, mapleshade is selfish and uses others as scapegoats for explaining her actions

[@aspenpawarts9333]

@@karahjackson855 To an extent she was A mother who was wronged by everyone, but she is still a villain. Mapleshade *was* wronged by people, but how she reacted too it was what made her a villain. I do think again as it was a reaction with all the horrible things she did she'd be better for a redemption ark then all the others which are just "eviiiil" like I said.

[@karahjackson855]

@@aspenpawarts9333 I do like that she isnt a villain just because, and I dont think that she should've been exiled. Even though she was kicked out of thunderclan and her kits died, I dont think that that's a reason to go on a murder spree. She lied to her Clan and broke the code, and she faced the repercussions of her actions, though I think she should have been let back into thunderclan eventually

[@karahjackson855]

@@aspenpawarts9333 yes, cheating on and then abandoning the woman who had your kids is awful, but no one absolutely deserves to die

[@moonblii_62]

Let’s be honest maple shade is the most bad a** villain

[@FriedEgg_Oden]

Tbh I think brokenstar is the most bad ass villain

[@chomeo6797]

The Oden Channel tbh I think Darktail is

[@firefox9005]

Yes she is.. But i think most bad ass Villains is Darktail and Tigerstar...

[@nafsii04]

sleekwhisker.

[@Peikkey]

I liked this but unliked it because there where 69 likes

[@PopopamAJ]

I've noticed a lot of her problems also came from just not thinking her actions through well enough, or considering what might go wrong. Not that she's stupid; she just doesn't think ahead as much as other cats would. Yes, she was a victim. This part does make me sympathize, but less because I think she was justified or even that I like her (I don't like _or_ dislike her tbh), but rather because I actively dislike the cats who mistreated her. Actions like exiling for poor reasons and cheating are things that probably happen, but they haven't really been problems very often in the books, so I guess being less used to it makes it feel like worse deeds than it really is, so it kinda ticks me off more than it normally would. I do not _approve_ or _justify_ her actions, but I still sympathize with them, and knowing she went mad makes it easier for me to feel a bit more understanding for what she did. This doesn't change the weight of the crime, but knowing that it was at least largely because she wasn't mentally sane and was hallucinating that she was being told to do this just means that she wasn't fully conscious of her actions. Again, this doesn't make killing okay. I'm no judge; I don't know if lack of full awareness or mental insanity makes the ideal punishment any lighter or not. This is just my own opinions on the character and story. I don't specifically like or dislike her. I'm just stating how I interpreted her actions.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

PopopamAJ I think MapleShade did something wrong by killing all those cats, but she shouldn’t have had too rot until she finnaly fades, then die alone.

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@aspenpawarts9333 Why not? She was clearly bitter in life, and bitter in death too, with how she treated Goosefeather and Crookedstar. She was happy to be in the Dark Forest, probably happier than she would be facing the cats she killed in Starclan ahahaha

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Brishti Sengupta she felt betrayed by starclan. You left out all the points where she thought starclan supported her, then betrayed her. Starclan should at least have given her a sign that they didn’t agree with what she was doing. And it’s kind of implied that MapleShade had gone a bit insane when she went too the dark forest, and just wanted vengeance for being sent too the dark forest. If Starclan had only sent her a sign that she was doing the wrong thing, it Atleast wouldn’t have been her fault that she went too the dark forest if she knew that what was happening

[@brishtisengupta7180]

@@aspenpawarts9333 She betrayed the warrior code by taking a mate from another clan. That's how she should have known Starclan didn't approve; when she broke one of THEIR rules. It's not Starclan's fault that she believed they were on her side, they can't control her thoughts. It's not Starclan's job to send her a sign she was wrong when she already broke one of their rules. That shows she doesn't care that much what Starclan actually thinks and is just projecting her own beliefs on them to make herself feel better for going against them. Also, it says she's TRIUMPHANT to be in the Dark Forest but the end of the book, it literally says she's happy to be there. It says all this stuff in the video very clearly.

[@PopopamAJ]

@@aspenpawarts9333 I kinda agree with that tbh.

[@movedtocupowarriors4205]

I really don't like Mapleshade. At all. But I understand why people like her.

[@anarchistcocktail3455]

i dont get it and how is she still alive cats fade if they are forgotten how is she still not faded she is irrelevant in death

[@Foxstep_le_cat]

So, mapleshade is a warrior cat karen?

[@starwatcheranimations2667]

Yes she is

[@moonberry4191]

She would like to speak to Appledusk's, and Ravenwings, Frecklewish, Reedshine and Oakstar's managers.

[@rainaxie3014]

If Raggedstar and Yellowfang's gender were swapped, Raggedstar would probalbly be on a list of top ten warrior cats karen with Mapleshade

[@starwatcheranimations2667]

Omg I see that lol

[@lipstreet2]

Well, yes, but no

[@mrssmile5531]

FINALLY! I have never understood why people are so fond of Mapleshade. Some of them cherished her, but I think it's mainly because she is the only she-cat villan and everyone is just tired of Tigerstar's clones. I have always seen her ways as wrong. Thinking that Thunderclan will just like that accept her kittens, lying to them about their father (f.e. in Bluestar's case, Trushpelt gave her permission to tell the clan that he is the father, while Mapleshade straight up lied or didn't clarify). She thought she will go with that? All the time she was aware of the consequences of her actions - she knew that her relationship is forbidden - yet, she told herself that it will be accepted. People say that she was a good mother, but was she really? Throughout the book she acted like she loves her kits, she cared about them, defended them. But there are also several occasions where she put thier lives in danger - when she let them swim (they were saved by Riverclan cats) and then the second time when they drown. And like you said in video - she did all of that because of her love (obsession I believe is better word) to Appledusk. She didn't have to cross that river during storm with such young kits. I completely don't understand why she killed Ravenwing. And I don't understand why some people say that he deserved it! It was his job, he received an omen, he didn't want to lie to his clanmates. Fracklewish was mean when she found out the truth, but she was angry that Mapleshade used her brother's legacy for her own benefit. I don't like Mapleshade. But what makes me even dislike her more is fact that fandom loves her, defends her while she was her own downfall. I guess... she loved too much???? Yikes, that's bad.

[@stupidgmail2792]

I love Mapleshade. She’s my second favorite character. But I also really like listening to others’ opinions. I have nothing against opinions. The only things I don’t like are when people say things like “ugh this character is horrible, they’re just horrible! If you like them you’re stupid!” It’s pretty offensive. Anyway oof topic (sorry XD), i could never hate on someone for speaking their opinion and I feel very envious of people who can. I rarely can because I have a bad habit of intense ranting. This is why I love hearing opinions. Thank you for being calm about yours. I’ve heard so many others talk about their opinions and they were pretty mean about. I was talking to one of my friends about Dovewing and Ivypool. I love Ivypool and don’t like Dovewing. My friend was the opposite. I didn’t say anything because I didn’t want to offend her opinion, but she started being a little rude about mine. It’s hurtful. This is why I really want to thank you for speaking calmly and not offending others. - xX Reap3r Xx

[@Spottedstorm27]

I'm the same way. I have been attacked for hating Jayfeather as a character because everyone sees him as an innocent baby that can't do wrong and I'm dumb for hating him. Same for my dislike of Scourge and Tallstar's Revenge. I'm also a HUGE Bramblestar fan because I can relate to his struggles through my brother's life. I've seen what impact having a crappy father and the comparisons have. As you can imagine, people wanna crucify me for liking "the most terrible mate and leader of all time" because of the recent books. I had a hard time reading Squirrelflight's Revenge because I can understand some of his actions while others feel extremely out of character. But I'm a bad person that must be okay with his mistakes too because I love the overall character. It really hurts having to be quiet about unpopular opinions.

[@stupidgmail2792]

pikachu fan 4 life it really does hurt. I won’t hate on you or any other person who has different opinions. I really hate when others bully people just because of characters they like or dislike.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

pikachu fan 4 life your not a bad person for hating BrambleStar. It’s one of those things where he’s an objectively bad person, but you can’t help like him anyway like MapleShade. Each of them has some innocence, and that’s what makes people like them anyway

[@mckaylamarille8630]

Same, I just find Jayfeather kinda cynical and whiny and can't see the charm in his character. I feel like somebody is going to bust down my door for saying this, but ... ᴵ ˡᶦᵏᵉᵈ ᴸᵒⁿᵍᵗᵃᶦˡ

[@blondeashfur3445]

It's a shame how everyone has to bite each other's heads off over fictional characters :/

[@serenitythesiren5031]

Akira: "I mean, she disrespected a dead cat by using BIRCHFALL as her kits father." Whitewing: "...Birchfall, where have you been going out the last few days?"

[@Consumeroflemons]

Missy Dakota's version of Moonkitti is AMAZING

[@Star-vf8vz]

*Drawn with pure smug energy.*

[@keres6882]

ah yess, maple, the yandere mama who is involved in many books for no reason--

[@sylveoncovers4603]

4:30 ACTUALLY this is a type of lie! A lie of omission I believe. By not telling someone something or leaving something out of the conversation, you're lying. Straight to their face.

[@magpiefins419]

This is why I so much like the au where Patchkit managed to survive and Reedshine takes him in despite Mapleshade, it's in a map that I can't remember what it's called, these kits didn't deserve what happened around them, and I think if they survived Appledusk and Reedshine would have taken better care of them if they where kept by riverclan.

[@crystalcolors2229]

GOD THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FOR THIS THANK YOU FOR BEING ACTUALLY SMART

[@jangllemouse]

👁️👁️ hi!

[@Maggot_bonez_508]

Tbh I use to love Mapleshade but it’s the fandom that made me kinda hate her because of the Mapleshade apologists and Stan’s

[@EmperorBelossss]

frl

[@silverstarthehybrid8122]

Bright Guardian Akira needs to make an entire video of different cats spinning. Edit: Not just Dovewing. Multiple cats.

[@RealDatWither]

Why can I imagine an au of the kits living and Mapleshade as Mother Gothel type of person now-?

[@LocalLazyStove]

I need this in my life now-

[@Psych67B]

Maple shade is the definition of a perfect villain. Selfish from the beginning and turning pure evil with nothing changing her view.

[@x-kat-xd6295]

Is it just me or are other people fangirling over Moonkitti in that art style.

[@professionalnerd4055]

She looks awesome! I love Missydakota's art.

[@ccappa2001]

yes. we need posters of that. YESSSS. also, i watched her latest vid before this lol

[@littlefox_100]

Yup

[@Feezee223]

I am but it also is strange seeing moonkitti not in her style lol 😂

[@eggsncocoa2299]

Mapleshade just decided that Thunderclan had too many cats

[@Shellos_is_the_goat]

Mapleshade in my eyes is a character you can relate with in some point of view. As a mother you would do anything for your child as long as they’re ok. When their child gets sick or worse, they have an emotional breakdown. Sometimes leading to what Mapleshade did. So honestly I think her actions were an act of grief for her kits. I know murder is murder. But when you look a little bit closer, you can see that there’s a lot more to Mapleshade’s, or any villain as a matter of fact, story

[@thetallestc2407]

Even though she murdered 3 cats for almost no reason, I still love her 😍 ( plus she's the only female villain ) EDIT: I posted this when I wasn't far into the series, and I didn't know about the other female villans. I know who they are now 😂

[@jangllemouse]

There is sleekwhisker too, and also you're valid! (I really like her too though her actions weren't justified)

[@sondraj6992]

Sleek whisker and kinda sleekwhiskee

[@MelonTartVA]

What about HollyLeaf? She was a female villain, even if her build up to it was incredibly long

[@Mistedsparkk]

@@MelonTartVA i don’t this hollyleaf was really a villain sure she killed ashfur but it was only for what she thought was best and there wasn’t anything else she did bad

[@dawnmatesandcrew6867]

YAy finally a collab between two of my favorite cat tubers

[@user-rn7lc6dl8g]

Did Darktail go to the Dark Forest or did he just die? Because I’m Shattered Sky he was threatening Onestar about going to Dark Forest. I’m not rlly sure about it

[@mercedesbenz6657]

@Wowie Zowie did Sol die?, i thought he just fleed and we never hear of him again?

[@mercedesbenz6657]

@Wowie Zowie alright, Thanks for the answer! 👍🏻😁😎✌

[@mercedesbenz6657]

@Wowie Zowie 😎😁👌🏻✌

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

He did join the dark forest after all, against all logic.

[@cnidarianglow1041]

Thank you for this well-thought out and respectful video tackling the Mapleshade controversy. You have convinced me to look at her story from a different perspective-though it’s been a while since I’ve read Mapleshade’s Vengeance, so I want to re-read it with your points in mind before coming to any new conclusions about her character.

[@gurohfuck]

Hi! Have a nice day bois

[@SourGrapesandParmesan]

You too :)

[@crowbrainzz]

* high fives *

[@littlefox_100]

Ima girrl

[@nectar2636]

hoomans.

[@iluvdogs26]

I’m so happy Moon got onto Akiras video!!

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

After reading MV I’ve found that Appledusk was right to blame Mapleshade for the loss of their kits!

[@user-iz1rp3xe1l]

exactly! he had warned her the dangers of the river MULTIPLE times and she still ignored him. He was grieving his kittens too, and had every right to blame her!

[@KatieLeonard-jc5op]

I like Mapleshade as a villain but not as a cat.

[@Omg-wm4nu]

I’m not trying to start an argument or anything but… ya’ll got something’s absolutely wrong. MapleShade isn’t selfish or manipulative at all. As a matter of fact, she literally mentioned that she thinks her kits would help the clans realize that it would be better if the clans don’t go against each other and should rather find a form of peace, something StarClan yes didn’t specifically want, but would be pleased with. MapleShade didn’t choose the love AppleDusk, love is blind. AppleDusk began seeing ReedShine on the side, while MapleShade is still deeply in love with him. Seeing that this is a possibility, MapleShade inner emotions go a little haywire. It’s a natural reaction to have when someone you really love seems to be taken away from you. Also, she doesn’t “waltz through RiverClan” to AppleDusk, she is clearly uncomfortable bring around the cats. MapleShade didn’t lie to her Clan, they assumed BirchFace was the father. Sure, she didn’t say otherwise, but the fact that it seemed like she was being given a chance. Not only that, but she didn’t want to say but not tell the truth, YET. She was planning on waiting for her Clan to finish mourning BirchFace before she says the truth. Also, it’s said that a queen doesn’t need to tell her Clan who the father is. Her Clanmates insisted they know the father when it was none of their business. They would also constantly try to make her kits, not their kits, HER kits, do specific things that not even a 3 moon kit could do because, “BirchFace could do it.” It’s almost like they knew and wanted her to admit it or something. Yes she did have the log she could cross, I bet she would’ve used it if her former Clanmates weren’t making rush to leave. Where is the log? Definitely not where her and her kits were. She is feeling scared for her kits, possibly fearing that if she didn’t get them out quick enough, they would be killed. Feel free to disagree, at least I don’t slander a character I don’t like every chance I get. Like seriously Akira.

[@Littlefox1213]

Dude I mean c’mon- I heavily disagree with your thing of Birchface. Mapleshade didn’t “lie out loud,” she, as a queen, had every right to turn down Frecklewish’s assumptions, but she didn’t because the power of God(how tf was that giving her a sign of StarClan?) Yes, she could’ve waited, but what luck would that bring to her now adult children? The clan would probably freak out to realize that this whole time that their real father was no one other than the murderer of Birchface. All this time she could’ve peacefully grieved and had started a peaceful life with Myler. It also really frustrates me how when being exposed right in front of her kits, she hardly shows any concern for the dead warrior and pushes the blame onto her clan mates, when in that exact moment with Frecklewish she could’ve EASILY said no. Another thing, I don’t really think Mapleshade had trusted her clan to begin with-when pushing all her faith onto StarClan instead, just believing that through all of this, they’ll still be on her side, even when killing three “totally guilty” cats. No signs of remorse for Birchface, and instantly calls vengeance for her and her kits once they’re kicked out. It’s a little weird how quick she was to act up when being kicked out, did she expect a different reaction out of them? Of course they’d be pissed off, don’t see why you’re so upset. Honestly, I don’t think I like Mapleshade’s Vengeance as much as I expected because of heavy spoilers which made me hate her character even more, just thinking she’s very dumb and not enjoying a single thing within the book. Oddly enough, this comment is giving me huge red flags, apart from the fact that I really hate Mapleshade and disagree heavily.

[@Omg-wm4nu]

@@Littlefox1213 If you disagree with me, then that’s fine.

[@Littlefox1213]

@@Omg-wm4nu That’s alr I guess, I respect you

[@Omg-wm4nu]

@@Littlefox1213 I respect you too! :)

[@marymccann3500]

About 10:52, I would honestly prefer Reedshine being the one to off Mapleshade rather than Appledusk. Reedshine was cheated on by her husband, who then died at the claws of his ex-lover, who had just attempted to kill her. Why shouldn't she be the one to kill Mapleshade, thereby both avenging her husband and protecting her unborn kittens? Reedshine could have been an interesting foil to Mapleshade, in that she genuinely cared about Appledusk rather than seeing him as a commodity she needed to keep away from other women, and that she loved her kits not as bargaining chips, but as her precious children. Just changing it so that Reedshine is the one to kill Mapleshade would be so satisfying.

[@shibuyes]

Appledusk didn’t kill Mapleshade tho, it was Perchpaw

[@marymccann3500]

@@shibuyes Yes, I know that. In the video Akira suggested that Appledusk kill her, and I'm saying that I would have preferred if Reedshine had killed her.

[@scootermcpeanuts6699]

In my personal opinion, I thought it was kind of clever to write a book from Mapleshade’s perspective, I felt like seeing her perspective of how much she didn’t regret anything as well as how the book seems to justify her actions was a neat way of showing just how insane she has become to the point of her seeing murder as the best thing she could possibly do. I don’t like mapleshade as a protagonist but she works amazingly as a villain in my opinion because we get to see her descent into madness play out in her perspective. You guys brought up good points though.

[@VolleyPuppy91]

I also believe Reedshine is a good cat in this story, she is loyal to her mate Appledusk and even stands up for him despite him breaking the code, the worst thing she says is "Go away Mapleshade, you've caused enough trouble tonight." But like, that's not honestly bad?? Again, Reedshine is standing up for her mate and still being respectful and loyal to her clan. A lot of people paint Reedshine to be this terrible cat but she wasn't? She didn't even know that Appledusk was with Mapleshade and when she found out she acted maturely and stuck by his side (not saying Appledusk deserved her forgiveness but that's beside the point)

[@pkfirespammer]

I 100% agree!

[@pinstripesgirlfriend]

I’m waiting for Draikinator (not Quiet Rage) to enter the chat... They made some good points as to why Mapleshade is a good character

[@zayamoone]

Yes!!

[@pinstripesgirlfriend]

Night yes

[@zayamoone]

@Night What happened?

[@siqxyre8473]

Pinstripe's Girlfriend don't trust the words of a manipulator imprinting on a manipulative character to justify their own actions

[@pinstripesgirlfriend]

Klazocloniac they made the video months before the incident and they were technically talking about how Oakstar was a bad leader

[@Sarah-sv3uf]

I think Oakstar SHOULD be in the dark forest, he is not supposed to banish kits that don't even know what to do. Oakstar in my opinion is the reason why Mapleshade's kits died, and top of all of it, he in 3 words are evil, cruel and selfish. (Please respond if this doesn't apply to you, it's just an opinion)

[@amazingusernme]

Something that bothers me is how EVERY. SINGLE new warrior cat reader chooses Mapleshade as a first favorite character without knowing her problems, story, and crimes. But of course, its their opinion. But the fact they go on and judge her without reading her novel, only seeing her as the victim and not caring about the problems she caused.

[@birb70]

It’s possible to like her as a villain, I’m also a person that often loves villains more than heros but yeah some people think that she’s the victim and like her that way which is pretty frustrating because it’s really obvious they didn’t read the book

[@amazingusernme]

@@birb70 Yep. Liking the villian in general is okay. But putting her in the wrong role is bad.

[@JujuLazuli]

Okay, I agree with quite a lot of this, but you gotta love her because she killed Spottedleaf.

[@Nothxyou2]

BAHAHA- I agree. I love that fact that she killed Spottedleaf. Spottedleaf was showing huge signs that she was jealous of Sandstorm and Firestar. Especially in that one scene in Skyclan's Destiny when Leafstar gets excited that Sandstorm is pregnant with Firestar's kits and Spottedleaf had this unexcited and annoyed look on her face 💀🤣

[@-millyyt-9909]

Yes. No one cares abt spottedleaf now

[@altos5069]

Oh, I ain't touchin' this topic with a 10-ft pole, lmao.

[@awl1116]

I feel sorry for the kits

[@Littlefox1213]

I do too

[@reneedittmer9625]

Me too! Forget about feeling sorry for Mapleshade, THINK ABOUT FEELING SORRY FOR THOSE KITS 😭

[@Maggot_bonez_508]

Me too their the only true innocent characters.

[@Angela-uj3xb]

I read this novella yesterday and none of the cats who die deserve it. Mapleshade took her grief the wrong way and she was better of staying at that barn, it's her own fault that her kits died but she doesnt think any of it is her fault. Darkstar told her that losing her kits was punishment enough for breaking the code and Mapleshade shouldnt of thought that she would be allowed to stay in riverclan. Overall I think that Mapleshade is a bad cat however the story was interesting to read and she is a well written character but not a good person.

[@biscuitmixx]

Hey, so Mapleshade DID have an alternative! There is a Twoleg bridge over to RiverClan. Why she didn't use it is a mystery to me...

[@gacha4gurls135]

KZbin: *23 likes* *11 views* *7 comments*

[@rainthedreamer6713]

Before I read the title, I thought the video was about Snowfur, Thistleclaw, and Mapleshade.

[@imtindomeiel]

i absolutely think Appledusk did do something wrong, cheating on Mapleshade. In my opinion, she honestly deserved it. SHE was the one who got in the forbidden romance. Which is denying the code, But if Appledusk wanted to be in a relationship, it is supposed to be a feline in his clan. So hes really following the code and Mapleshade kills him for that. Mapleshade did everything ti herself. She got herself in the romance. She broke the code, and made her kits cross the river. She was the reason she got herself exiled. Mapleshade was abusive and manipulative. And poor Ravenwing and Frecklewish. Ravenwing was doing his job, it was MAPLESHADES fault the kits died and her fault she got exiled. And the fact that she ran straight to Riverclan makes me very stubborn. And Frecklewish, poor girl, she did nothing wrong. I do think lashing out at Mapleshade was sorta wrong. Ill give you that. BUTTTT she was also very angry, and also grieving her brothers death. Im not finding the right words at the moment to say this, but Frecklewish lashed out because she had thought those were her brothers kits, they were the only thing left if her brothers kits. Mapleshade lied to Frecklewish. And i will never forgive her for that. All and all, im not trying to side with characters. I do think Appledusk had done something wrong. But he admitted. Again, before anyone hates me, this is all my opinion.

[@artikit9323]

I like mapleshade as a villain. I love the concept of ones own wrong doings leading to your own destruction. Do the ‘bad’ actions of the other cats encourage her shoddy behavior? Yes, but do they justify it? In reality, No.....but in her mind? It does. Maybe... that is one of the points in this book. We are seeing everything through her twisted point of view. No wonder people are going “poor mapleshade”. It’s exactly what she wants. Isn’t it? (That is another reason I like mapleshade. The idea of the others using her mindset to have her manipulate the audience? It’s too good to ignore! How much of her backstory is 100% true!? Stupid thought, but let me keep my tinfoil hat.)

[@intrstellas]

I hate how the writers are too afraid to write female characters as too irredeemable and nasty like the other villains (tigerstar and etc. have sympathetic backstories but are never really villified in their novels.) Her kits were just possessions to her and a ticket to baby trapping and owning Appledusk (the river scene? the child endangerment should have been intentional) but the erins were never good about writing queens let alone female characters so they chickened out and got a Mapleshade with really muddled up characterization.

[@Anyone_remember_Slugterra]

Mapleshade reminds me of Ashfur tbh, they were both obsessed with someone, and they both did horrific things to/for the person they were obsessed with. Weird how differently the fandom treats them

[@eve7638]

Exept ashfur is worse.

[@Anyone_remember_Slugterra]

@@eve7638 personally, I don’t think that, considering how maple killed three cats (including a pregnant queen) but I can see why you think that, especially because of the new arc

[@eve7638]

@@Anyone_remember_Slugterra An attempted murder is literally the same thing as an actual murder. Ash was worse. He literally went to Arson mode because of a break-up. A BREAK-UP! Ok, i get that break-ups can be stressful and heartbreaking, but squilf is a literal cat-being too! She has the right to make her own decisions. Ash wasn't even a good mate. Maple's kits were literary KILLED. Those kits meaned the whole world to her. She was blinded by grief and guilt. And she was always a vengeful animal. Her kits were killed, what did you expect? And she did not kill those kits for herself, she killed them for them. She killed the cats so her kits could be free! So they could rest in peace! She kept hearing their mews in her head and wanted to get rid of them, otherwise she would have gone even more insane. She had no choise but to kill those cats only to get rid of her own pain.

[@Anyone_remember_Slugterra]

@@eve7638 I don’t wanna cause a giant reply argument so I’m going to just state my opinion. This video we are commenting on is literally about how people keep saying how maple did everything for her kits, etc etc, but she didn’t. She used them as a bargaining chip, something to solidify her relationship with dusk, (who is also in the wrong but you don’t just go insane because you got cheated on- yeah your gonna be (rightfully) pissed and upset, but not enough to try to KILL a pregnant woman) and even before that used omission to lie about who the kits father was. Assfur was terrible, but that doesn’t mean that maple wasn’t. Yes he set the forest on fire, almost killed a bunch of cats, but maple did bad things too. She used her kits death to gain sympathy (which worked.. on the wrong people) killed three cats, and manipulated others using omission. Both of them are assholes, not just assfur.

[@meeplol145]

@@eve7638 wasn’t she the one who decided to cross the river when one of her kits told her it was a bit to high and she didn’t listen tho? I’m not saying she meant to kill her kits at all, but Mapleshade doesn’t seem like a very smart cat.

[@lisah147]

This video was amazing! Both in the facts about Mapleshade and in the Moonkitti joining part! I just love the end too when Moonkitti says, “I think I might’ve been swayed if Mapleshade was a bit cuddlier and gray, gray cats are the best. I hate her because she’s too orange!” All in all, great work Akira and Moonkitti and thank you both so much for spending so much time working on this video! I love both your channels so much! To Akira: dude this video is absolutely fantastic! Your editing skills are on point and I love your channel so much! Don’t work too hard on videos tho, better to be safe than sorry! Keep up the amazing work, but once again I will remind you to not work too hard! Your character is so cute, I must admit! I can tell you work very hard on these videos. To Moonkitti: I absolutely LOVE your humor and animation! It’s fantastic! Every single teeny tiny one-minute Warriors animation you do makes my day so much better! Your character is absolutely adorable btw! I can’t wait for the next video, and remember to not overwork! If you have to make your video release dates a bit longer in between each video, please do! I understand. Love you both and can you maybe hand me some tips and tricks on how to make your cat art look so beautiful? You don’t need to if you don’t want to, just asking! 😊🖤🖤🖤 I love you so much! Keep the great work going!

[@ameliadarrell5613]

before I started reading the books, I went on youtube and watched cat videos. Then I started watching warrior cat videos, and the first cat I was introduced to was Mapleshade. I learned her kits died, and I felt bad for her. This video has really helped me understand what kind of cat she really is.

[@Atomic-dragons]

Well, personally I think Mapleshade was a bad cat and a great villain.

[@Ramen_Foxy]

Same. She was fun to read but I don’t like her in general.

[@juli9963]

I only grew a bond with Mapleshade stronger than with any other villain, maybe just Snowtuft but she's my favourite from the category of villains. I will always have her as my favourite villain

[@juli9963]

Just like I grew a bond with Whitestorm and Bluestar and Jayfeather

[@warriorsclaws1943]

(Read the whole thing before replying, thanks.) Mapleshade never WANTED to be evil. She thought she was doing it in the will of starclan. Even in Mapleshade's Vengace it's clearly pointed out. ("Mapleshade THANKED STARCLAN for bringing her prey in her paws.") Yes, she took side in darkforest, but if you read it till the last page, it stands that Mapleshade lost her faith in starclan after going to Darkforest beaucse she belived that Darkforest would destroy the clans, which would be mean "No half-kits" and no more to suffer. Yes, she might've gone the wrong way but there is no evil. Everyone is evil in another's eye, there is no good or evil in reality. Mapleshade WASN'T the one to lie about the kit's parents. Frecklewish actually brought it up. Appledusk called his OWN KITS mistakes infront of their CORPSES. For who is lazy to read everything; There is no real evil. Only 'evil' is from OUR perspectives. There is no good or bad, only opinions according to different people. Mapleshade might have been done bad things, but she thought it was the right. You can't tell a person is evil if they don't know the wrong. You can't call a person a hero beaucse they were acceptable in YOUR perspective. When a fox kills the rabbit, she is the hero to her cubs, a monster to the bunny's cubs.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Warriors Claws these are actually good points!

[@brishtisengupta7180]

By not correcting Frecklewish, Mapleshade is still lying by omission. Saying "well she didn't say it out loud" is a lazy excuse, especially considering she then uses Frecklewish's mistake to manipulate her into loving her kits. Appledusk did not call the kits mistakes, he called meeting up with Mapleshade a mistake. There's a difference. Many accidental, unexpected pregnancies happen to humans, but there are still parents who love their children regardless. You say she believed in the Dark Forest because they would destroy the clans so no kits would be judged for their parents. But apparently, killing a pregnant Reedshine and manipulating and tormenting a disfigured Stormkit is fine? So a kit's heritage shouldn't matter, unless that heritage involves Appledusk? This is clearly another hypocrisy on Mapleshade's part. Mapleshade is clearly in the wrong, comparing her to a fox hunting is intellectually dishonest because hunting is done out of necessity. Mapleshade had no need or justification for killing three cats, and attempting to kill a pregnant queen. Do you really think her 2 month old kits would have wanted, or even have been able to dream up, that kind of brutality? Even by your standards, Mapleshade is evil, because she is only a hero to herself and herself alone. A true testament to her selfishness.

[@brishtisengupta7180]

Additionally, your "different perspective" concept doesn't work because she is written in the most sympathetic POV: her own. And she STILL comes off as a villain. If it was litterally anyone else's POV, she would have looked even worse. Also, just because she thought Starclan wanted it doesn't mean she was right, otherwise all those religious fanatics who kill in the name of their religion would be justified too.

[@nectar2636]

Remember that Appledusk was Mapleshade's mate. They were his kits. And it was Mapleshade's fault that they died, so it's reasonable for him to be mad at her for basically killing her kits. (Or rather, forcing them to their death) I mean, sending your own kits to a flooding river that they'll definitely die? Even the kits said it looked dangerous. I think Mapleshade herself didn't think she's evil in her own eyes, but of course, she is.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Brishti Sengupta FreckleWish yes was wrong, BlueStar also went along with ThrushPelt being the father. Your point?

[@NylaTheWolf]

I would like to emphasize that if you see someone drowning, never, ever go after them if you don't have lifeguard training. Even if you can swim, it's dangerous if you don't have proper training because a drowning person is panicking and will latch onto anything to keep them afloat, which will likely result in both of you drowning. Reach, throw, or row, don't go. Get help if you can't reach them with a stick, throw them a flotation device, or grab a boat or something. Frecklewish cannot swim at all, so if she tried to save Mapleshade and her kits, the most likely outcome would be that she would drown. You are absolutely correct.

[@dragonneaspie242]

The two things I like about Mapleshade are her name and her pelt color. And that's it. 🙂

[@catteethjelly]

Samel

[@lillyflovv6930]

I don't 'hate' MapleShade, frankly I feel a bit bad for her considering her mate cheated on her and turned her down and his kits, but she is evil. AppleDusk isn't bad either but I feel that he should have at least tried to convince the River Clan leader to take in the kits.

[@evelynnjones5442]

Welp I liked mapleshade mainly because she sounded cool and sad in her backstory. I now have the book and reading a bit into it she seemed to resist trying to swat away frecklewish who is suppose to be their "aunt" because they were maple's kittens not freckles. It's a bit rude of her and she says that she would use them to bring riverclan and thunderclan together closer. That is something I learned

[@twigbranch4556]

honestly the second quote summarise my argument when someone complains that i don’t like maple shade or that maple shade was selfish and expected everything to go her way