British vs NVA Infantry, Germany, Early 1970s - Kit Comparison

A comparison of British and NVA Infantry in the early '70s.
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[@Thomachi]

It's impossible to not love NVA kit, it's so nice and Eastern-bloc, but so Teutonic at the same time! Unfortunately not so available and cheap as it was a few years ago.

[@66kbm]

A lot of NVA kit can be found here... www.militaria4you.com/?s=nva&post_type=product

[@JJ12354]

The helmets have got pretty expensive in the UK, the rest of the stuff is still cheap though from what I've seen.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Absolutely, very odd kit in many ways but fascinating!

[@davidbrennan660]

Seeing DDR petrochemicals can break down in the box from new over time, collecting this scale of issue is such, you never really know what you have or had...... like that cat in a box with a poison gas experiment, but worse.

[@KurtCHose-uw2ux]

Thomachi beeing an police officer cadet in 1988 I remember to had to carry also both brown leather map case and pistol holster on the right hip, between the AK ammo pouch and the shovel. thankfully we had the foldable shovel back then, which was much more convenient to carry, but worse to use than the fixed one (the bloody thread to fix the blade to the handle was never really tight 😐) but anyway, there was much more carrying than usage, so... I much more hated my boots, the std german „Knobelbecher“, though thery were comfortable, me and my buddies were soo keen to have proper jump boots rather than ours, but those kind of boots were in the development pipeline (see „UTV“ the universal carrying test) but then the times and the history changed before their issueing anyway, thx for the video, nice resume/comparison, much appreciated!

[@VaucluseVanguard]

In about 1988 I was on exercise in Germany running an RAP. We had young soldiers playing SIMCAS and they had been given old kit from the QM we could cut off them as we went through the casualty play. Each SIMCAS had a plastic sack with their own uniform in so they could re-dress after we had finished. I always remember one young lad had on one of the 1960's smocks. It had a fleece liner sown in and a large pocket sewn into the chest. When I went to cut the smock of he shouted... "stop sir; hang on a minute" got his own combat jacket out, put that on and stuffed the 1960 design int the sack and said, "sorry sir, you can cut away now! In his eyes, the old kit was much better than his relatively newly issued stuff.

[@tacticalfall4505]

I'd feel the same way as him if I liked the older uniforms better (I usually do)

[@bogstrider0009]

Working on my own NVA kit, lots of good stuff to learn from this vid, many thanks!

[@oliverb2501]

Very well made and informative video! Looking forward to the next one!

[@RiflemanMoore]

Many thanks!

[@harry9392]

Love this channel just found it Keep the videos comming

[@globalmilitarycollections4591]

I cut apart some East German magazine pouches and I was surprised to see that the strichtarn fabric was coated in some kind of waterproof coating. I handmade equipment and I was surprised that east Germany was making gear with waterproofed fabric in the same era American magazine pouches weren’t coated at all.

[@neilmurray1359]

I was stationed Iserlohn ( 26 Engr Regt) 84-90 and we carried KFS in the grenade launcher pouch, you'll find that the cape carrier was used for NBC when I was there and the reason carried above Kidney pouches was they chaffed your legs when on a march for a period of time.

[@chrissheppard5068]

58 pattern weapon was just crap and really an early webbing version of a rubrics cube to try and find a way to fit comfortably. Utter shite.

[@SunnidaleProductions]

Great video man

[@RiflemanMoore]

Thank you!

[@uazfoursixnine]

Great video; lots of interesting information.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Glad you thought so!

[@WebGearReview]

good job, thanks for sharing.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Glad you enjoyed, thank you!

[@roverboat2503]

With 58 webbing there was a lot of difference between how it was meant to be worn and how it actually was worn. I never wore my respirator on my chest for example, normally it would have been worn around the waist. Bum rolls were always worn on top of the kidney pouches to stop them bouncing about and ammo pouches were often worn sloped so it was easier to lie down. If you had your back pack on it would push your helmet over your eyes when you lied down! Not very convenient!

[@alangordon3283]

The respirator haversack were worn on the side not on the chest .

[@Surv1ve_Thrive]

Awesome! Thank you.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Thanks!

[@DeltaEchoGolf]

What stands out is that the NVA issued it soldiers with a jacket with upper sleeve pockets for all troops. Most soldiers in the Warsaw Pact and in the Soviet Union (outside of paratroopers and special forces) did not have them. Even the Soviet Union did not have this for general issue until the mid 80's in Afghanistan. And in the US in the late 90's/2000's.

[@ausaskar]

Yeah, the shoulder pockets seem like a very futuristic design element on an otherwise traditional uniform.

[@captlazo6348]

Абсолютно верно. Форма удобная и современная для своего времени.

[@jimshady07]

Really enjoyed this video thank you. I noticed to the side of you on that shelf is a book by George Forty about the 14th ive just finished reading it myself some very interesting photos of the chindits. All the best - Jim

[@RiflemanMoore]

Thanks Jim! It is indeed an excellent book.

[@alfred9895]

I think more videos going into the NVA would be interesting, going into different dress, parade and field uniforms from the 50s up until the 90s. Can’t wait to see more!

[@RiflemanMoore]

It's far from my main area of collecting so that's extremely unlikely I'm afraid, sorry to disappoint.

[@alfred9895]

@@RiflemanMoore Ah it's fine, my Dad is a boffin on the subject anyway

[@harry9392]

I remember the guys in NI had their respirators on there belts . Later as a team medic I used my respirator pouch for my med kit

[@cavalier080854]

I had the water bottle on the right side and my mk6 respirator on the left side belt. In the mid 70s

[@ausaskar]

Cool video, love to see NVA and Cold War content.

[@DAGO58]

Excellent, thank you! Anything NVA/DDR is greatly appreciated.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@toobeers6064]

Ein Strich kein Strich. Die beste Tarnung!

[@davidbrennan660]

You are showing the wear period of the earlier NVA Respirator haversack.... nice gag. Has the NVA yoke have a heart shaped back piece joining the Y on the back or is it circular? Nice work.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Many thanks. There's a heart shaped back piece to the suspenders, naturally.

[@davidbrennan660]

Did not doubt it Genosse.

[@allyreneepenny9447]

Beautiful the British uniforms at the 70's👌

[@chrissheppard5068]

You obviously have not worn it.

[@roo99710]

If you could a strichtarn gas mask bag would be much more accurate than blumentarn.

[@davidbrennan660]

The Model 56 Helmet comes with rivets that hold a sized liner, an early pattern. A variant with no rivets as the shell is made to take the variable size liner and another variant which has rivets that serve no function as shell has been converted to take the variable liner so it has different fixture positions to the Shell. The quality of the steel and the shape of the Modell 56 make it still balletically a very serviceable helmet, its down side being its weight, compared to the modern helmet. Motor Rifles troops would normally have a net in first cotton and later nylon, being of a dark green or a olive green colour . There was also a helmet cover in matching camouflage pattern to the field dress that could be issued. Early patterns of the Helmet Cover were made to be buttoned on the jacket, but this feature was later lost. Images exist of the cover being used to cover Panzertruppe crew helmets (likely Rece troops) or the Winter fur hat that was worn by the NVA in the winter dress period of the year, (Dece to the end of Feb), in fact it is partly shaped for this function....try it out, have a play.

[@RiflemanMoore]

I'm currently missing an example of the interim design with the adjustable liner in an earlier, shell, keeping my eyes open for one!

[@DeltaEchoGolf]

To me I found the helmet rather light. I think it's the shape. Most helmets are are centered close to the head. Whereas the NVA helmet is flared. Giving that 'leaning " feeling when you move your head up and down and side to side.

[@colinsanders3667]

Thank you for that presentation , I found it really interesting, I am fond of German equipment.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Having done a bit of Airsoft skirmish using NVA webbing gear I would much rather use British 58.

[@Rokaize]

Why do you say that?

[@darthsoldier6939]

Great video i collect lot of East German uniforms and they are indeed very good quality and durable

[@RiflemanMoore]

Yes, best of the Warsaw Pact kit by my estimation!

[@Adam-if3zd]

What type of waterproofs did both armies use at the time?

[@davidbrennan660]

The NVA had a Grey rubberised plastic nightmare two piece suit... thick nasty and breaks down into a sticky gooly mess.... talcum power helps but you are fighting rearguard in stabilising it, it was not common issue, it was special use . The normal Soldier’s water proof was the Zeltbahn cut in the square Soviet pattern but with two arm slits.... carried on the Nr1 Assault pack which was carried in your fighting vehicle if not worn or used as a temporary shelter when resting in the field.

[@muwuny]

Are you going to do versions for different eras like late 70's, early 80's and late 80's?

[@RiflemanMoore]

Possibly so though there is only limited change, really.

[@muwuny]

@@RiflemanMoore A late 80's one might be best then, since it would show the most difference, with the Mk6 helmet and P85 uniform.

[@ricasteli]

Strichtarn equipment and uniforms were also provided to ZANLA and ZIPRA, despite it being east German equipment the Rhodesian security forces referred to it as "Chinese Rain drop"

[@RiflemanMoore]

Indeed, I believe they also got DDR issue helmets too. As did the other NVA of course.

[@davidbrennan660]

If you come across South Africa vets of those wars, you can give them flash backs...... yeah bin told that by some very knowledgeable guys with photo albums not for the faint hearted from back in the day. By the way, the South Africa made garments they made for black ops were better made and more usefully cut in design for their own us.

[@denislaw6107]

I joined in Sept 1971 and we wore our respirator on our belt.

[@RiflemanMoore]

I'm sure, I'd never assumed wearing the haversack on the chest was the one and only position, that's why I specifically stated in the video why this position was chosen to be represented on the mannequin. You can see the footage mentioned here; kzbin.info/www/bejne/aavSZplsoZKNhpY Infantrymen and tankies are shown wearing the haversack on the chest.

[@denislaw6107]

@@RiflemanMoore I see your point, but ... while reference is made to Infantry Platoons alongside the Tanky, you can see that the film uses 'Tank Regt'' servicemen to act out 'both' roles. I imagine the various branches of the Armoured Corps, and possibly any other Troops conveyed in armoured vehicles wore their respirator satchels on their chests as seen in the movie - simply to afford easier access in and out of their armoured vehicles hatches. The satchels would have clearly snagged if they were attached to their belts and Armoured Corps troops might have to abandon their webbing if making an emergency exit anyway. As you pointed out however, wearing a satchel on the chest would not be very practical for adopting and maintaining the prone position, so you will find that most troops actually wore their respirator satchel on their waist belt. To summarise, the example you have presented of webbing and specifically the respirator satchel, is not the norm dress method and you have been influenced by a misleading film that does not portray the majority of how ground troops wore it and certainly not infantry men of the 70 As a further example of my point, we often 'played' an infantry role during training with black webbing (Artillery nuance) instead of blanco until '57 pattern webbing was universally issued to non infantry Units around 1974. Regards, Denis - former Royal Artillery. 1971 to 1978.

[@kentuckyburbon1777]

I think I have an NVA shovel from the 1950’s ...no rivets and it has a small makers mark in the form of a 🦇 bat

[@Droodog127]

where is the old fudd boomer that usually does the vids? you look so young!

[@RiflemanMoore]

He'll be back for a few more vids then away for a while. At least until I get the naval project I had in mind done, probably delayed by the current state of things.

[@blueband8114]

Well i would definitely opt for the British kit if i had to choose one for fighting in.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Have to agree with that and not just due to familiarity.

[@Vivacious_Lenin]

For the NVA kit, why have the ammunition pouch on the right side? Wouldn’t it be more convenient for an average (so right handed) soldier to have it on the left side? Since you’re using your left hand to reload the rifle.

[@raulmartinezrodriguez9953]

if you put your right knee on the ground, the left leg would lift the pouch against your body if you were wearing it on the left side

[@globalmilitarycollections4591]

In western military doctrine you maintain your grip on the weapon and reload with your left hand. In Russian/soviet doctrine they trained to break their grip and reload with their right hand. That’s the extent of my knowledge.

[@gerdlunau8411]

I served in the NVA from 1983 to 1986. Changing the mag at a Kalashnikov submachine gun while laying flat on the ground, is best performed with the right hand only, just tilting the gun slightly and making oneself a little 1/4th body turn to the left for fast mag replacement and reloading. The left is just holding to gun (at the pistol grip) without doing anything else. To do so the Kalashnikov's barrel was placed and resting softly on the left lower arm to minimize the soldiers movements to be quick, doing it blindly with your head down and hopefully undetected, as well as to avoid the riffle's barrel tip and front sights getting into touch with the mud / dirt. Once the mag was replaced and the next first round inside the chamber the soldier only had to make a slight 1/4th rolling body turn back into laying straight out flat position for aiming. The little grip on the righthand side of the Kalashnikov to be pulled back all the way for reloading the first round into the chamber was pointing now half way up, the same for extra lever to switch from safety, permanent and single fire mode - the Kalashnikov had both hand controls at its right side. It is also easier to reload the Kalashnikov with the right hand (only) while walking or running. Reloading the Kalashnikov from the left side would be a very complicated, chaotic and lengthy process. As I described it, every recruit or officer cadet was trained accordingly during their first basic training to handle and shoot with a Kalashnikov. The handling of a Kalashnikov never changed, besides different versions and the elderly 7.62mm barrel gauge versions being later replaced with the more modern 5.45mm in the mid. 1980s in the NVA. Peace! from Dresden / Germany

[@globalmilitarycollections4591]

@@gerdlunau8411 I would love to hear more from you. I like stock piling NVA gear for my apocalypse stash and I’m always wondering what the intended use for some things are? Or if you can find manuals for me I’ll pay you for them.

[@gerdlunau8411]

@@globalmilitarycollections4591 I am sorry, Sir. I used to be a very busy German engineer, travelling the world extensively. This came all to a sudden end by retiring on health grounds. Being more or less now completely disabled and therefore totally bored, I plough through the internet and answer here and there about some Eastern Bloc military issues because there is so much wild BS "information" and ridiculous claims circulating at the internet. But I do not have anything left of this period to trade. PS: I served in the NVA at the MSR28 (stationed in Rostock at the Baltic coastline and therefore having an unusual amphibious task designated for this unit), but I was not an infantry man myself. Each MSR (NVA slang for infantry regiment) had a tank battalion integrated. I served my three years basically as a T-55 commander. The tanks in our battalion were all made in Poland under Soviet license and the correct type was T-55A. So these tanks had full ABC (NBC) protection, underwater drive kit (I personally drove [!!] many time through the Elbe river) and a fully stabilized 100mm gun, IR-night time fighting capabilities but no laser distance measuring unit (they were later equipped with those, since this became the real disadvantage compared to NATO tanks, slowing the firing rate since too much manual measuring and mental-math was involved for the gunner). But the best part of the training was to drive them around in difficult terrain with its powerful V12 Diesel engine and 5 speed gear box without syncromesh. So double clutching this beast was required for every gear change, but if you knew what how do this thing was unstoppable. There is nothing better than a Diesel engine for any vehicle with more than 2 wheels on this planet . If you knew how to drive a T-55 you can drive ANY vehicle out there. Again, I am sorry to downturn your request. Take good care and Peace! from Dresden / Germany

[@harry9392]

Were is the British back pack as per CEFO .

[@RiflemanMoore]

CEFO ommits the pack, I believe you're thinking of CEMO.

[@harry9392]

@@RiflemanMoore i think my memory isn't as good as it was. LoL keep the videos coming

[@thefrench8847]

The German uniform is designed very well.

[@gerdlunau8411]

No, the NVA uniforms were a mess, except for the demonstrated field uniforms (Ein-Strich-kein-Strich). They were reasonably well design and come in two variants - thin summer version and a thick bolstered winter version. Almost all other uniform pieces (the ones keeping the look of "Prussian" tradition) were a disaster, not serving their purpose well. They were tricky to repair if at all, worn out too fast and were very uncomfortable to wear, the fabric was rough and scratchy. This bloody tie was completely out of fashion. These uniform pieces did not warm you in Winter and made you sweat needlessly in Summer and never protected you against mother nature's elements. They were difficult to get into and to undress. Just a f...g nightmare in terms of function. On top, we, the rank and file and some officers hated these uniforms not only because they were so horrific impracticable but most importantly we looked like Nazi zombies. When going out on the very rare evening or weekend leave, we had to do so in uniform and looked ridiculous. In the disco the even most ugly girls would turn us down, so the only option was getting totally drunk. Having the silly hats being stolen (out of fun) at a wardrobe was common practice, so you carried this bulky function-less thing better permanently in your hand. Great in any pub. Coming back to the field uniforms, the part 1 and part 2 backpack style pouches were very intricate to hook onto the uniforms straps, the tent plane much too tricky to roll up and attach etc. The water container could not keep drinks warm or cold and its camouflage soft cover was always stinky, regardless of cleaning efforts. The gas mask (filter) side pouch was very much in the way of everything (later to be replaced with filters, attached directly to the mask - a great improvement). Our standard boots in general lacked the necessary quality and required too many repairs - often done by an old drunk bootmaker chap working in the barracks totally frustrated because all he had to do were black simply boots with the occasional brown one in between. The sports clothing was kind of OK for its time, including the pair of black sports shoes which came along - they reminded us on some 1970s Adidas runners. There was too much WW2 spirit in our uniforms, definitely not acceptable any longer in the early / mid 1980s when I served within the NVA. We wanted something modern like the US forces or even the Soviet army. It was the time of Gorbachev and Rock'n'Roll and increasingly disarmament efforts in both sides. So if you make such an universal statement, then you must specify which uniform (barrack service or field) you mean. There were big differences. Peace! from Dresden / Germany

[@dandesso8926]

You look a lot younger

[@RiflemanMoore]

Well, thank you.

[@bwxbwx6453]

Have you served yourself?

[@RiflemanMoore]

Unfortunately not, I'm barred from military service in the UK due to a nut allergy, which isn't even that severe. Barred from the reserves too, real shame. I even had trouble gaining entry as an officer cadet at univeristy because of it.

[@bwxbwx6453]

@@RiflemanMoore same due to a medical thing I'm not allowed shame too think it be fantastic

[@johngovus6580]

B

[@user-co4rs7ob1t]

Форма ГДР была лучшей в Варшавском блоке.Коментарии излишни.

[@dandesso8926]

What the hell happend?

[@RiflemanMoore]

Ich weiß nicht.