NobelWomen #7: Greed

[@danicaholly1554]

Thank you for your insights. I couldn't agree more with your opinion about Jelinek...

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

Happy to hear that, Danica!

[@babetteernst8874]

Ich kann dir auch hier nur danken, dass du diese Leserunde ins Leben gerufen hast. Ohne die Gewissheit, dass es am Monatsende einen Austausch zu dem Buch gibt, hätte ich es nicht durchgehalten. Endlich konnte ich eine Nobelpreisträgerin im Original lesen! Eine Übersetzung stelle ich mir sehr schwierig vor, wahrscheinlich gab es auch deshalb so wenige, die mitgelesen haben. Die Handlung des Romans überzeugte mich in keiner Weise, die Figuren waren hölzern, klischeehaft und handelten auch so. Ich mag vielschichtige Charaktere, in die man sich hineinversetzen kann. Das war aber hier absolut nicht der Fall. Der Gendarm, der Sex nur hat um an Häuser zu kommen (behauptet er selber), hat aber eine junge Geliebte ohne Haus und dieser Teil der Geschichte führt zu einem halben Krimi, den ich nicht gebraucht hätte und dessen Funktion ich nicht verstand. Ich gewann aber den Eindruck, dass die Handlung nur dazu diente, Jelineks Haltung zur österreichischen Gesellschaft einschließlich Politik darzulegen. Die Sprache war absolut außergewöhnlich und hat vermutlich zum Nobelpreis geführt. Die Autorin hat eine Gabe, mit Mehrdeutigkeiten zu spielen, die mich beeindruckt hat. Dadurch wechselte mitunter innerhalb des Satzes der Gedankengang völlig die Richtung, was in der Übersetzung vermutlich nicht nachvollziehbar ist und was ich wechselnd genial und nervtötend fand. Aber immerhin schrieb ich viele Zitate heraus, die mich meist amüsierten. Besonders fand ich auch, dass Elfriede Jelinek den Leser fast das ganze Buch direkt anspricht, mal in der Ich-Form, aber auch in der Wir- oder man-Variante und dabei Gedankengänge beschreibt, die normalerweise in einem Roman nichts zu suchen haben. So schreibt sie z. B. über die gerade eben gefundene Formulierung: "Eine inzwischen überholte Diktion, diese Passage gehört überhaupt gestrichen, finde ich, aber dann wird das ganze zu kurz." Wobei der Satz gleich zu meiner Kritik führt: aus meiner Sicht hätten es etwa 200 Seiten weniger sein können und die Geschichte hätte noch den gleichen Inhalt gehabt. Die vielen verschiedenen Beschreibungen des Wassers in allen Formen und der Berge, des Bergbaus usw. wiederholten sich nach meiner Ansicht und einige Sexszenen weniger hätten für mich ausgereicht. Wobei die Metaphern auch viel Inhalt transportierten. Vermutlich werde ich kein Buch von Elfriede Jelinek mehr lesen, aber dass ich dank der Leserunde zu diesem griff, war neben aller Kritik unbedingt auch ein Gewinn für mich.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

Vielen Dank für deinen schönen und ausführlichen Kommentar, liebe Babette! Es freut mich ungemein, dass diese Leserunde ein Gewinn ist für dich! Und ich denke, dass du recht hast: Jelineks Sprachgewalt war sicherlich (mit) ein Grund für den Nobelpreis. Liebe Grüsse!

[@Saephaan]

Thanks for this video. I totally get the thing about the huge pages with long paragraphs. It’s tiring, although I don’t know why. But I like Jelinek, she made me sick and uncomfortable. I love that, it made me feel her books.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

I can see that about Jellinek!

[@nicolaspoblete2087]

great impressions Britta! what a luxury to be able to read Jelinek in German. I have followed her career for a long time and translations are not abundant. She has said that her writing style is "compositional" because she learned piano from an early age and is quite accomplished as a pianist. That's why her experimental style is echoed in the page, but if you think of other Austrians, such as Handke and Bernhard, they too use this kind of fluid narration that is seen in the page's layout. I think "The piano teacher" is more accessible than "Greed", but I agree with you that the plays are kinder to the reader than the novels, still maintaining her extreme sarcasm and nihilism. Her latest translation "Charges" is amazing, I loved the way she is attentive to current events; in that case the immigration phenomenon and Austria's role during Nazism...

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

Hi there, Nicoas, happy to see you again! I agree with you re the accessibility of Piano Teacher vs Greed. And I can definitely see the 'musical' composition of her books. I think in her plays that comes out even more. I havent read Die Schutzbefohlenen (Charges) but it sounds brilliant, thank you for the recommendation.

[@nicolaspoblete2087]

@@brittabohlerthesecondshelf I love these series. I look forward to the rest, especially Müller's, one of my favorite writers! (I'm still grieving over the absence of the poets, though--Nelly Sachs and Gabriela Mistral, such treasures!)

[@jasonmetzker2290]

I do not think I will try this one, but I loved your review. It reminds me of the novel, 'The Autumn of the Patriarch" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez where the entire novel is written in one paragraph.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

Thank you, Jason! I havent read Autumn of the Patriarch but a book in one pragraph sounds daunting...

[@Saephaan]

@@brittabohlerthesecondshelf Cristo vs Arizona is a novel by José Cela that’s also one paragraph, (except that ir’s just one sentence!). It has the record of the longest sentence ever written in spanish.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

@@Saephaan One paragraph?! OMG!

[@KayAmpersand]

My first DNF of this readalong, which is going to bug me for a while, as I really like our goodreads discussions. But I just could not get into it - don't know if it was the writing style, the translation, the story...I might try it again later but for now, I'm moving on to our next read.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

Haha, yes I can see that you're not happy with yourself for dnf-ing Greed. Maybe try another Jelinek at some point but for now: onwards! :-)

[@jbsubscribes6399]

Britta, One of my favorite aspects to your NobelWomen series what I have learned about each of these writers. All of these women have risen above gender discrimination and continued on with their work. They weren't all "likeable", but they persevered.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

I'm so very happy to hear that, JB! And yes, even if it's only 14 out 0f 114, those women have perservered.

[@josmith5992]

I'm so glad that you said this novel wasn't the easiest read Britta. I have to admit that I got twelve or so pages in and gave up, I couldn't get into the writing at all. I don't know if it was a translation thing from German to English or something else. I will try again but just wasn't feeling it this month, perhaps I should try her plays instead.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

I heard more people struggle with the translation but I think Jelinek's style is really quite difficult, even in the orignal. I'd try a play!

[@RunwrightReads]

I picked up Greed for WIT in August and didn't get very far. I'm finally returning to it and having a lot of the same difficulties with the prose style that others have mentioned but I'm a finisher so I will keep reading and see if the experience gets better ;-)

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

I can totally understand that, Jelinek's style is not easy to like...

[@tortoisedreams6369]

Love your series, but this was my first miss. Read the first several pages, but I just couldn't get started, couldn't get traction, couldn't get a handle on what I was reading. May well return to it, but not this week. Can't say if it was the translation or her style, but it just didn't work for me. Having just read William Faulkner I thought I was in shape for the task, bu no such luck. Onward & upward.

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

You are not the only one who gave up on the book, so please dont feel bad! Sometimes a book just isn't woking, and Elfirede Jelink is a tough one. If you ever want to return to her work, I'd recommend reading one of her plays.

[@Michael_Wertenberg]

Thank you for your video! I loved The Piano Teacher, but based on the reviews I don't think I'd have the stomach for Lust or Greed? I don't have the stomach for sexual assault, so I'm hesitant to read more from her, but I want to. Is there a play you can recommend I read?

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

I can understand that, for sure. Jelinek is pretty dark, mostly.. As a play I would recommend 'Winterreise' (Winter Journey) which is based on Schubert's work but I'm not sure it has been translated into English. But maybe you also read German?

[@Michael_Wertenberg]

@@brittabohlerthesecondshelf Thanks for the recommendation. I read in English and French only, unfortunately. From what I gather, the only play of hers that's been translated is Bambiland (but it sounds quite harsh and violent).

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

@@Michael_Wertenberg Yeah Bambiland is not what I would recommend... And if Wikipedia is to be trusted Winterreise has been transl. into French. So maybe look for that? (And there are more French translations of her plays from what I can see)

[@LauraFreyReadinginBed]

What was the German word you referenced, that means "soil your own nest?" I love those compound German words! I was not familiar with The Piano Teacher but whoa... might have to check that one out. That one sounds more interesting to me...

[@brittabohlerthesecondshelf]

The German word is 'Nestbeschmutzer'. And the German compound words are the best. :-). I think The Piano Teacher might be a good pick for you, if you read it: let me know what you think!