Arch User Reacts To Linus Tech Tips Linux Challenge Pt 1

I've been waiting for the Linus Tech Tips Linux challenge to hit KZbin for a very long time and it's finally here but it's not without it's flaws so I thought I'd be fun to add a little bit of extra context and correct some of the things Linus and Luke said.
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==========Time Stamps==========
0:00 Introduction
1:21 Choosing A Distro
5:07 Linus' Choice
5:56 Luke's Crazy Choice
6:52 Linus' Experience
12:57 Luke's Experience
15:37 Linus' Final Point
16:45 Conclusion
==========Credits==========
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#LinusTechTips #Linux #ArchLinux
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[@BrodieRobertson]

I said that driver info screen with open source and installed was a KDE app, it's actually made for Manjaro but that doesn't change it being a weird layout

[@jwisemanm]

it is a bit confusing, I agree, but the meaning of the two columns isn't that hard to understand if you think about it: the first one tells you whehter the corrisponding driver is open-source or not, while the second one tells you what's installed. Clicking on an "empty square" on the installed column, will promt you to install the corresponding driver. Not that hard.... but yeah, Manjaro devs could have made a better job with it.

[@AdalbertoMaggioJunior]

Linus clearly said in WAN that discord with screen sharing is a must. So in this part one it’s safe to guess that he means installing discord with full functionality

[@wacesferpit]

@@jwisemanm the main bad design is that it mixes up information fields and interaction fields, the 'open source' could have been written as a label instead of a checkbox the same way as the 'installed' ones, or the install could be a button instead of a checkbox

[@masaufuku1735]

Those are checkboxes - the first column tells you if it's open source or proprietary, the second tells you if it's installed or not. I do get the confusion here, especially since in this case there was no overlap between the checkboxes, giving the mistaken impression that they might be radio buttons. With a longer list I think it would have been a lot clearer what was being represented. Using Y/N rather than checkboxes would probably improve clarity a lot as well.

[@jwisemanm]

@@wacesferpit I agree, it's confusing. It took me a few moments to understand what was going on the first time i opened that tool, but it can be done. And the tool is actually very useful, especially on laptops with hybrid graphics... althogh, they REALLY should improve the design.

[@potatogod3000]

12:34 it's actually not KDE's fault but Manjaro's. Manjaro devs are the ones that wrote this KCM. KDE never has such confusingly named columns with checkboxes to denote if it's yes/no.

[@lukehb]

2:58 "You can have things that are easy in one way, but then are a hassle in others". Yes, but remember, the article is about best linux distros FOR GAMING. If gaming is a hassle to get set up, it's not "very beginner friendly" for a gamer. It's like an article for "best foods for nut allergy sufferers" saying a particular food is "Super healthy" and "really delicious" but also "contains traces of nuts". It doesn't matter what other areas it's really good in, if it isn't suitable in the main one you're wanting out of it.

[@BrodieRobertson]

I can see the argument you're making but dying and spending a bit more time setting up gaming are opposite ends of the spectrum.

[@lukehb]

@@BrodieRobertson sure, it’s hyperbole, but I think my point stands. If you’re looking for a distro for gaming, you’re going to be setting it up for gaming. Which means, if it’s a hassle to set up for gaming, your experience is not going to be that it’s “very beginner friendly”.

[@BrodieRobertson]

@@lukehb I still stand by it talking in a general context about Linux, you usually don't download a distro for just a single purpose

[@lukehb]

@@BrodieRobertson sure, but that is what that article is literally about. Quote from the first sentence of the article “These are the best Linux distros for gaming, whether you're using an Nvidia or AMD-based PC” I’m a Linux user. I use Linux for my home server, NAS, and a bunch of production servers I still manage. I’m not knocking Linux, but this article is a train wreck, and I think Linus’ criticism is TOTALLY valid here. They have written an article about Linux as a gaming OS, so it’s totally irrelevant how easy to use for things like web browsing, or productivity. If I’ve searched for “best Linux distro for gaming” and someone has written an article with that title, that’s my focus.

[@BrodieRobertson]

@@lukehb the article is a trainwreck is something we completely agree on

[@williamfowl8670]

About the contradiction part : I think Linus is right here. It's an article about Linux distros for gamers and gaming IS a beginner operation. So if setting up games is a hassle, it by definition is not 'beginner friendly'. Loved your commentary btw!

[@ToTouchAnEmu]

Came to say the same thing. The entire point of the article was for linux gaming, so that should be the focal point for each distro.

[@Designsecrets]

Agreed. I turned off the video when he went after Linus on that. It's either easy to use or it isn't.

[@vukpsodorov5446]

@@Designsecrets it depends on what you want to use it for. i mean, if the article is focused on gaming, then yeah, it either works or doesn't. but you can still use it for other things such as development or web browsing with ease, even if setting up gaming would be a hassle (hence it can be beginner friendly and difficult to set up, just in different scenarios).

[@Traumatree]

But gaming on Linux has nothing to do with a "distro friendly for beginners". If you game on Linux, it implies that you are not a beginner anymore...

[@Designsecrets]

@@Traumatree You might want to redefine your definition of what an operating system does. Of course it includes games, games are software, clicking a button to install 'software' to install steam and bricking the system, isn't friendly for beginners.

[@wizitchizit]

I actually nuked my system in the exact same way when I was a new Ubuntu user way back in the day. I had no idea typing that was a warning. And even had I read through everything, I'd have had no idea what any of it meant at that time.

[@mario7501]

The bug in PopOS is actually hilarious. I can only imagine how many people messed up their systems because of this

[@Luna-yz1gr]

I see a lot of people make that case that it is at least “partially” Linus’ fault for not reading the message, but let’s me real: you should not have to be aware of and then research a system-level bug before installing something as trivial as Steam. Even if he did read the message, what is he supposed to do to proceed? If a show-stopping bug ships with “stable” software, a first-time user is probably not going to do the legwork to fix it or wait for the devs to, they’re going to just move on. Yeah sure if you’re doing things like patching binaries, then you could expect things could go terribly wrong, but this is Steam. Yeah it’s fairly complex to get all those dependencies installed to get full 3D games functioning, but an end-user is going to be interested in doing the things they’re used to, and unwittingly nuking your whole desktop when you’re just trying to play some games is going to create a very bad impression that’s not likely to be reversed maybe ever.

[@BrodieRobertson]

In this case it didn't require research to know that there was a problem, so Linus is partially at fault however the distro should have done a better job at warning him

[@Luna-yz1gr]

​@@BrodieRobertson I mean he didn't know there was going to be a problem until he tried the install. He even noticed the warning the first time it appeared in the gui sw manager, but the solution he thought he found made it a lot less obvious that the problem was still there. I mean you can blame people for getting used to the "next next finish" routine on Windows, but he didn't have any way of knowing to expect any different. Chances are what he DID keep hearing is that "Linux is much easier now" and got the impression that the process would be straightforward.

[@BrodieRobertson]

@@Luna-yz1gr he didn't but during the process there was a prompt saying there was an issue

[@Sk4lli]

@@BrodieRobertson Hidden behind a wall of text, which is not easy to understand at all for a newbie with no prior experience. But I know you mentioned that too. Linus might be partially at faul for not taking time to read it carefully, but realistically, it's bad UX and a beginner can't be really blamed for messing that up. For all he knew, this could be how apt always does its prompts. 😀

[@BrodieRobertson]

@@Sk4lli That's what I said in my previous comment

[@MyNameIsntRyan]

Bruh lets be real. Literally any professional IT person could have made the same mistakes Linus made, all the Linux fanboy nonsense can stop. Even if you don't make a goofy mistake like this that destroys your pc, look at the rest of the review. Audio not working, double monitor not working, glitchy displays, glitchy programs that should work out of the box. Imagine running a 150+ office and every user is running Linux and has these dumb random bugs. I'd shoot myself.

[@lepidoptera9337]

No, you wouldn't. They would let you go the day you dare to mention that you want to install Linux on those office machines.

[@crazychicken0378]

I’ve been enjoying Linux youtubers reacting to LTT. Though I don’t really care for mass adoption of desktop Linux it’s still nice to see people exploring

[@coolguy-hu4ou]

why not? if desktop linux becomes popular it will get better faster

[@extreme123dz]

@@coolguy-hu4ou To linux becomes popular need to throw completely away that mentality, philosophy of "do it yourself", Command line/Terminal, to beed more noof-friendly than ever, only 1 type of universal and easy installation (either how on Windows or Mac) app, better adn all round easy GUI, Terminal only for really advance/programer (hide it for normal/99% of the users) etc

[@OMGSoothsayer95]

It's fun to see other try linux while reminiscing on your own experience: "oh, fuck I remember that, that was a pain in the ass" "good ol linux mint, it just works" "lol, 5 years since I learned how to deal with that haha"

[@Nikifuj908]

@@extreme123dz That's what forking is for!

[@user-he4ef9br7z]

@@coolguy-hu4ou one can argue it'll get worse. Personally, I don't care.

[@abbasnosrat8898]

Linus didn't just nuke pop on his pc he actually nuked system 76😂 I mean just think about it. Imagin a giant tech channel uses ur distro for steam and u shipped steam with that massive bug. I feel bad for pop os cause it was my first distro and it has a special place in my heart.

[@BrodieRobertson]

That's not what I said, I said Anthony should have checked the script in the scripted sections and provide commentary over the video, not help them in the unscripted sections.

[@RealGigaMind]

​@@BrodieRobertson But it would not reflect noobs who don't watch Anthony or have a Linux friend.

[@kleysley4730]

7:29 "If you accidentally pick the wrong drive, things are gonna go bad". This is so true, speaking from experience XD. Bricked my Windows install with fdisk while trying to install Arch leaving me with a completely broken system (two broken systems to be exact).

[@RFLCPTR]

druaga1 flashbacks.

[@nxtktube]

Feels, i remember how i borked my ONLY 80GB drive partition table ~15 years ago while installing FreeBSD to replace Win XP, loosing all my personal files was a valuable lesson to be honest, after that compiling Gentoo wasn't that scary. FreeBSD -> Mandriva -> Gentoo -> Ubuntu -> Arch BTW

[@i3xt3blackeagle]

Same happened to me, but when installing windows after installing Ubuntu because Windows installer won't tell you which drive is what, so I accidentally erase Ubuntu and installed Windows 10

[@yudhok]

Dual boot on one hard drive is scary. Windows think he's the only one and the best, so while doing windows update It's prone to break everything.

[@i3xt3blackeagle]

@@yudhok not only on a single drive, even on separate drives it wrecked the bootloader and it defaulted on windows

[@Duckly97]

7:25 My very first experience trying to commit to Manjaro... Always double check your drives, kids! Didn't realize what drive is was until I had already installed a bunch of games on it.

[@Flynn217something]

I watched 1 recommended Linus Linux video reaction and now I'm being flooded with reaction videos from Linux KZbin channels. It's great!

[@JEffinger]

I think recommending Arch based distros for new users is a mistake. Fedora is imho better than Manjaro for new users.

[@TheLeft09]

Not for gaming tho

[@JEffinger]

@@TheLeft09 Yes it is? I literally started the Linux challenge when Linus did and picked Fedora because he made fun of it. I've had exactly 0 issues with it. Why would one distro be bad for gaming vs another? You install steam and play games.

[@TheLeft09]

@@JEffinger As far as I know fedora doesn't have out of the box nvidia support

[@JEffinger]

@@TheLeft09 i just enabled third party repost and installed the Nvidia drivers. It wasn't hard.

[@TheLeft09]

@@JEffinger I know, but a lot of people expect out of the box stuff (Linus is an example of that).

[@tux_the_astronaut]

Linus had the same issue as me with pop os i had to completely reinstall my whole OS cuz the update nuked my system by it breaking core dependency’s making half if all my apps unuseable

[@entelin]

Technically fairly easy to fix, you just reinstall what was removed, but no reason to bother if the system didn't have anything important on it. Apt has a log you can consult to see what got uninstalled.

[@diablo.the.cheater]

@@entelin I had a dependency problem 3 times in the past like that where it was not that fairly easy to fix, because apt was also included in the apps that stoped working.

[@entelin]

@@diablo.the.cheater lol rip, yeah that would make it harder. Would have to use a chroot from a live boot environment.

[@Maebbie]

oh nice you finally did talk about the actually video, ets hope that video opens the eyes of the distros that wish to be user friendly.

[@BrodieRobertson]

Finally lol, I uploaded this as soon as it it fit my schedule.

[@nilssab]

7:10 It was especially good that he removed the SSD. Ubuntu has had a bug since 2014, still there in 20.10, that writes the bootloader to the first efi partition, regardless which efi partition you choose. If pop has inherited the bug he could have fried his windows bootloader, unless he knew that he needs to remove flags from the other drives.

[@LiamNajor]

I don't think that's a bug... every time I've dual booted, windows showed up in GRUB automatically save for one time, where I updated GRUB from recovery mode and THEN windows showed.

[@nilssab]

@@LiamNajor Well, not all os bootloaders are safe to overwrite. They can contain end point encryption software etc that might completely brick your os install if you overwrite them. And if you, knowing this, choose to install on another device all together, and specifically tell it to put the bootloader on sdb1 and not sda1(there is a pulldown menu to do this), and it still just puts it in sda1, it will surely feel like a bug to you too. :)

[@LiamNajor]

@@nilssab lacking context makes all judgement inherently flawed

[@carbonsx3]

@@LiamNajor This is the most intelligent comment I've seen on KZbin in a LONG time.

[@nilssab]

@@LiamNajor that's true, it's a shame youtube doesn't allow me to post the source from the ubuntu bugzilla. But it's bug nr. 1396379. It has happened to me, as well. If you don't encounter it you likely only have 1 EFI system partition.

[@illya3859]

Brodie couldn't stop himself from inserting I am using Arch btw already in the title.

[@BrodieRobertson]

It's my only qualification

[@saltyabcdef3202]

OK, but he did not come off as condescending or superior in any way to the "test subjects". And Brodie is intrepid if Arch Linux is his only qualification.

[@okamiboi]

3 out of 6. Now I need DT, Luke and Kenny's reactions.

[@reo101]

Who are the other 2

[@okamiboi]

@@reo101 Titus and Brandon from TechHut

[@okamiboi]

@UCednCz1nN7UJoy7VVCEV_IQ Yeah, but those are the ones I follow. Feel free to add yours, maybe I'll end up watching some more good content!

[@ThatLinuxDude]

@@okamiboi Uh... this comment aged poorly as TechHut already did one even before your comment... unless you edited the message since.

[@ThatLinuxDude]

Honestly, kinda hoping DT ends up reacting to it and the future episodes so we can see the look on his face when Manjaro falls flat for Linus (given how much he has ragged on about it in the podcast) after DT explicitly recommended that Manjaro to new users. No offence to Manjaro, it's just... the saying still goes: Arch IS NOT for beginners.

[@lordofenron]

Great video! I love the subtle humor and objective feedback on the video. Good stuff :)

[@JavierZavaletaVirasoro]

What do you mean "mistakes that shouldn't been included". The whole point of this challenge is for them to interact as the new users they are, to make mistakes and document them. If they go and edit the (some) mistakes out, as silly as some may think they are, we wouldn't be getting their honest review. For example, Linus killing PoP!_OS happened because he didn't carefully read/understand what he was doing. And he even went ahead into the terminal, got the same warning, and even typed a big confirmation text which was there to prevent users from accidentally breaking the system. Anybody who knows a bit about Linux would just say "Oh! This is bugged and trying to get rid of gnome?! I'll just get the flatpak version, the apt installer is obviously broken". The fun thing is, the solution to his issue was a combo box away by changing the source of installation for Steam in the store. But Linus doesn't know that, and neither would a whole bunch first comers to Linux. What happened to him, can easily happen to some one else and that is the whole point of this challenge.

[@BrodieRobertson]

You didn't listen to what I said, I specifically referred to the mistakes made during the scripted section, such as saying Pantheon only works on Elementary or the example of Ubuntu being hard to use, not the issues they had during their setup.

[@JavierZavaletaVirasoro]

Ah OK, that is a fair point then.

[@rrteppo]

@@BrodieRobertson to be fair doesn't that speak to some of the documentation for new users. Where even LTT who tend to do their homework are getting things wrong? I know Linux has the do it yourself mindset for everything, but some of the more common stuff could have a stable default.

[@mrlectus]

It's mostly dependency issue.

[@BrodieRobertson]

@@rrteppo in the case of pantheon just looking up "pantheon DISTRO_OF_CHOICE" will give you the information you want

[@variable_0]

12:37, I'm not sure if you're referring to KDE here but they're not the one who made the Hardware Configuration, It's made by Manjaro. Kinda like an extension made for browsers.

[@picclejar]

Aside from working with pulseaudio/pipewire, i think the reason Linux says Discord requires a lot of command line is because of the issue where the server list lags when you scroll through it. iirc it's an issue with hardware acceleration or something.

[@RamkrishanYT]

About the "Hassle to setup for Gaming" thing for Ubuntu, it was clearly under a article mentioning "best gaming distros" so Linus is fair to say that it's conflicting info

[@BrodieRobertson]

He was a making a comparision with it being easy to use generally so I stand by what I said.

[@SimGunther]

"Two dudes, one steam linux install" - Title of their next hub video

[@Your_Degenerate]

You totally want to see them rice up each other's DE's don't you?

[@SimGunther]

@@Your_Degenerate It's "officially riced" when the kawaii levels are through the roof on their desktops and the windows are tiled up to the gills with enough programs open simultaneously to make Mr Robot jealous! :D

[@shady4tv]

13:48 - I was in IT doing desk side support for a long time and to no surprise -> Windows has this problem as well. This is just a limitation of technology. The OS has no idea how your screens are positioned and have to just guess It really just luck if it gets it right on the first try.

[@msoulforged]

But you can reorder them within display options by dragging and dropping monitor icons by mouse.

[@shady4tv]

@@msoulforged You can do that in most Linux DEs as well

[@nulious]

@@msoulforged which is how you do it in Linux

[@Aras14]

As a Manjaro KDE user (might switch to xfce on arch or maybe garuda) i can say that it should not be your first distro, it's just too unstable. I had to switch to an older kernel once because the newest wouldn't boot and plasma died on me two times (widgets/taskbar/other UI elements, but kwin and shortcuts still worked) and i had to open a terminal window, execute startplasma & and then disown.

[@onelazynoob15]

I ran manjaro until it broke the bootloader on its own after not using my laptop for about half a year since I only need it during school. I don't even know how it managed that, it was powered off the whole time. Ended up switching to just plain Arch, gotta say, with how much people say Arch is unstable, it's been way more stable than Manjaro.

[@shady4tv]

If you use bleeding edge you're gonna run into bugs. The reason gamers like it so much is because the improvements to performance around gaming is happening in real time in the Linux Kernel right now. Linux is getting better for gaming day by day so if you want to squeeze the absolute best FPS and whatever else gamers care about you'd jump for the latest and greatest. Its just a massive double edge sword. Personally I think staying on LTS kernels with LTS distros is a safe bet in the long run for the best user experience. CSGO runs great for me every time I open it even though I'm on a 5.4 kernel but then again that game is like 10 years old... I'm unsure how well a Triple A title would perform overall but probably not great in comparison.

[@xllvr]

The irony is that my Arch install has been far more stable than any version of Manjaro I've used. Also KDE is great but it also makes it extraordinarily hard to use non-KDE packages for anything that KDE already has, like dunst for notifications

[@Your_Degenerate]

Plasma can get wonky when you customize it and more recently using latte I had instances where it wasn't there on boot. It kinda was or rather a huge transparent blob was there. XFCE should be fine, you can throw a brick at it and it just shrugs it off.

[@ThatLinuxDude]

12:46 That ISN'T even BY KDE AT ALL, that's all on Manjaro.

[@dominik2327]

Yes, I wouldn't defend KDE for their many UX flops, but that's the KCM extension provided by Manjaro.

[@BrodieRobertson]

Then the manjaro team needs some UI designers

[@hermannpaschulke1583]

Manjaro is known for being kind of janky lol

[@encrypt3d587]

@@BrodieRobertson Manjaro needs a better team in general. So many issues, so much jank.

[@rmcdudmk212]

I've been daily driving Linux for about 8 years now and Linus destroying his desktop in Pop OS made me laugh so damn hard. 🤭

[@Hooorse]

Thanks!

[@tireseas]

I feel bad for the Pop guys. Terrible time to run into a bug with a user not remotely equipped to handle it.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

Bad day at System76 when this video dropped, for sure. But at least it resulted in a change to prevent this from happening ever again.

[@devaraft]

You can't be "beginner friendly" but it's a hassle to play games. ANYONE play games. It does conflict with each other.

[@Lampe2020]

That thumbnail is just hilarious, with Linus as the devil and Luke as the holy angel XD

[@torgematthies2172]

What I think happened with the GoXLR was that it probably supports the standardized USB Audio Class interface, which can be used by the generic USB audio driver. That will at least make the most basic functions work, but for anything that is not normally supported by a sound card, a specialized driver is needed.

[@BrodieRobertson]

I can see that

[@BjornsTIR]

Part of the challenge is getting discord streaming to work correctly, as they use it for work as well, so I'd guess that that's what he's referring to.

[@BrodieRobertson]

I'm not sure what working correctly in this case, unless that includes audio screensharing.

[@BjornsTIR]

@@BrodieRobertson It very likely includes audio and screensharing.

[@coolguy-hu4ou]

12:48 They arent exclusive. Its a strange way to convey the information, but it just lists the driver options and tells whether they are open source or not, and if they are installed or not

[@BrodieRobertson]

While that's true it's a really weird way to structure it

[@forthphoto]

I use manjaro for years now and it always confuses me 😂

[@Poldovico]

It being open source should not be a checkbox. You can't click a box and make a driver open source.

[@coolguy-hu4ou]

@@Poldovico yeah i agree its a misleading way to present it, because it isn't a functional checkbox like the installed column is

[@forthphoto]

@@coolguy-hu4ou well, then it should be in the name of the driver like other distributions do. Driver-------------------------| Installed NVIDIA (proprietary)-----| [✓] Nouveau (open source)| [___]

[@opalmay]

12:52 "open source" and "installed" are independent of each other. This is a very confusing way of presenting it

[@Xtrems]

they should just make it so that there are "✔" signs and X's instead of the boxes. Like every company shows the differences between their basic, pro and business suites and plans for products.

[@qunas101]

They should remove the open source column and just write "(open source)" near those options

[@darkfire2703]

I mean those columns are definitely not the best graphical representation, but I also don't really see in which way this could really be misinterpreted. It's two distinct columns with on/off markers for each line. And it means exactly what it says: If open-source is on, it is open source, if not it's not. If installed is on, it is installed, if not it's not.

[@Poldovico]

@@darkfire2703 The issue is the on/off markers are checkboxes. Some bad UIs do use checkboxes where radio controls would be more appropriate, so thinking this is one of those cases is understandable. What is not understandable is using a brightly coloured checkbox to just give you factual information you can't change, which unless the Manjaro team figured out how to make Nvidia change their license by clicking a box in their settings app, is exactly what they are doing in that screen.

[@kmg501]

In fairness I took the exact same route when I made the move to GNU/Linux, I left myself a "oh shit!" safety fallback. I installed to a new drive and left the Windows drive alone.

[@m.kblast4798]

The driver app in the settings in Manjaro, Its actually a Manjaro app not a KDE app, it just integrated to the settings, so Manjaro bad KDE gud.

[@BurgerKingHarkinian]

I don't think it was actually all that bad. A little confusing at first glance? Sure but it is rather self-explanatory after looking at it for more than 5 seconds, isn't it?

[@placebomessiah]

I am so happy about the traffic Linus & Luke's video has generated like a penetrating oil that has moved every echelon of not only the Linux community, but also the throngs of potential linux inductees. Nothing has ever been this huge for stimulating and guiding linux evolution in the 44 years I've been in front of a computer. I've wanted Linux to knock M$ and Apple on their ass in the PC realm for a very long time. It finally feels like that roadmap might be getting some long awaited clarity and frankly this is a great way to create the demand from all the major driver vendors to embrace linux as a lucrative personal experience not just for the ultranerds.

[@trancepeirce3107]

I've already binged 5 different reaction videos and still going strong.

[@christopherlee5584]

I'm an old HP-UX/AIX administrator, and am not a bit scared of the CLI. I have compiled binaries from source. I have used several flavors of Linux here and there, and I have to agree with Linus.... Linux is very difficult for non-techies to use. Windows sux, and we all know it, but Linux is just NOT ready for the regular PC user.

[@BrodieRobertson]

For non technies I don't disagree, I think it can be done but there's a lot of polish that needs to be applied

[@fusebox4473]

A lot of distros, like popos don't include multi lib, so any packages steam shared with xorg and gnome was removed for the i386 version. Not a bug, just a feature you need to enable.

[@xllvr]

I started off Linux by thinking I could do a dual boot. I ended up somehow corrupting my Windows instance and going "well I guess I'm moving to Linux permanently"

[@BrodieRobertson]

That's why I always unplug, I did the exact same thing to my laptop

[@motoryzen]

And that's why I always tell anyone new to linux..." DONT install Linux into the same physical drive that windows already resides in. You are begging for a rabbit home of problems. Grub and windows boot loader NEVER have and still aren't meant to play nicely together. Also If you forget to disable fast or quick boot and secure boot first...there's a chance some things won't work in the Linux distro such as wifi, physical lan, or other medium or critical basic things. Why? Because otherwise ..windows will keep a lock on the drive even though it will appear as if the windows os has shut down....it hasn't. It's in a weird sleep mode...and it has any and all drivers locked down also. It you put Linux on its own drive...AND ensure that windows drive isn't connected at all while booting into the live environment too install Linux distro into that chosen permanent drive...none of the BS involving Microsoft can screw with the Linux environment and installation as well as the finally installed Linux drive. Keep it simple and separate and you'll keep your sanity. Legit. Forums.linuxmint.com. Cheers

[@linkboy321]

My laptop, a Thinkpad P50, has support for two m.2 SSDs, so I out two 1TB WD SN-750s drive and installed each OS to a respective drive. Windows can't see my Linux install since it can't read BTRFS natively, and my Mint install only accesses my Windows drive if I manually mount it. I have a 2TB HDD that I use for storage that both OS's have access to.

[@ac130kz]

Manjaro made a very pro move with pre-installed Steam

[@sunnohh]

Linux: figure it out yourself, read the docs Arch: do we even need to tell you?

[@bioemiliano]

Bro did you ever go to the wiki

[@nathanielhill8156]

8:30 this is actually a fair concern for linus, some linux purist devs don't include proprietary drivers and some don't unpack some of the wierd or uncommon drivers. I had an issue on a live drive with some ancient brodcomm PCI Wi-Fi drivers. They were included in the full version of the install, but were in a compressed format to fit on the live disk.

[@Navlerusk88]

This whole thing is definitley a good thing for linux. I have learned more about Linux from "Linux people" reacting to Linus that I ever had reading forums... I think best way to see the shortcommings is to let a "noob" try it and see what is happening. That way maybe developers are getting a better grasp of small things they can change to the distro's. :) I am going to try Manjaro myself, see how it goes :P

[@doigt6590]

how did it go?

[@mikethom2119]

i have not used POP before but what surprised me is being mainly a gaming disto i would of thought Lutris and Steam would of been preinstalled

[@notthere83]

Display layout being the other way around has happened to me on windows time and time again. Didn’t really understand why that’s even worth bringing up. And by the way - I don’t recommend installing “some tool” to fix this, it’s always (at least in the 4 distros I’ve tried) in the system settings.

[@dtkedtyjrtyj]

Yeah, why bring it up? It's something that would confuse my sister. Maybe.

[@ThAlEdison]

I mean, starting with Windows Vista, Windows installs are also closer to a live CD, with the exception that it's running something more like Windows Core instead of a full Windows. But they don't necessarily have all the drivers available immediately. So there can be some driver issues.

[@LNDFHACKER]

12:35. That's not KDE's design flaw. That UI is designed by Manjaro.

[@CreeperJustWannaHug]

The columns are a bit awkward, but I believe it’s meant to tell you if each driver is proprietary in the first column (check = open source. No check = proprietary). The second column is supposed to tell you if it’s currently installed. Linus happens to only have the proprietary driver installed, so it seems as though only one of the two columns can be checked for each line. Which wouldn’t make any sense.

[@ace3093]

I am somewhat new to Linux. The only reason I picked Manjaro is because I see that the Steamdeck will come installed with this. I figure millions of new steamdeck users will need to get use this this distro. I haven't had any issues as of yet but we will see.

[@FatheredPuma81]

Just thought I'd say that I'm pretty sure Luke has his monitors plugged in the right order. Otherwise his bios would open on his 2nd monitor. So it's more that by default they expect your monitor to be on the left (which I think is the least common probably?)

[@Lin_The_Cat_]

Having watched the original video before clicking on this one, I gotta say, I love the thumbnail lmao reflects how I feel about the video perfectly. XD

[@BrodieRobertson]

There are some things I'd change about it now but I still agree with the general theme

[@criticalposts3143]

I appreciate that the chapter lines are in a very similar arrangement as the original :)

[@AceOfBased]

All I'm hearing from the Linux community is excuse after excuse (oh this is why that happened and this is why that won't work), if I had done what Linus did all my importaint files and so on would've been gone for good, I would not have known what to do to repair the OS. Clearly Linux is STILL not for everyone, especially if your a gamer using Windows.

[@Obscure_man31]

Yeah no this is not right mentality here in this comment

[@AceOfBased]

@@Obscure_man31 During these past 7 months I've become a more experienced Linux user (even used a bunch of Arch based distros) and what I have learned is don't take advice from just about anybody, figure out what you like and then go from there to find something for your needs. I am using LMDE 5 now, it's perfect for me, stable as a rock. Best distros that I have used as a 7 month newbie: LMDE 5, EndeavourOS, Garuda, XeroLinux and vanilla Debian (even tho it was a complete nightmare to try and find the right ISO on their website). The other 30+ distros I have checked out, I did not enjoy that much, and as for LMDE 5 that I am on now = Just works without worries.

[@veikkaheikkila7568]

At 12:50 when he blames KDE over weird UI, I can happily say that the menu is made by the Manjaro team and embedded to their settings menu. Blame Manjaro devs, not KDE. ( In my experience the "installed" checkbox means the driver is installed. Open source means it's open source. That was very weird for me too, basically just install video-nvidia with no open source ticked and installed ticked )

[@derpyKitsu]

When I was using XFCE Manjaro on my old desktop, I would have the same monitor bug as Luke like every week

[@Pyro-Moloch]

2:40 actually in this first point he was googling distros for gaming. So he's not saying it's a hassle to set up. What he means is that a GAMING distro can't be "beginner friendly" if gaming is hard to set-up

[@patrickprafke4894]

I know this is 3 years old now. But the biggest problem I've had with any Linux distro is that all the info on how to get things to work when it doesn't is already out of date by years and how to fix it has changed several times. And the final change is guarded by the dark overlords who want a planet sacrificed for the info.

[@chriswinters-ca]

12:57 The columns basically mean what they say. "Open Source" means if the box is checked, it's an open source driver. If it's not checked, it's proprietary. "Installed" just means it's installed if checked, not installed if not checked.

[@Xtrems]

but why the fudge is it presented in checked and unchecked boxes? When i first saw this i was confused, like "if I try to uncheck the box it installs a proprietary version of this driver? Oh it's locked in this state, do i need to install some libraries first? How would that even work?" It should be ✔ and X

[@Henrik_Holst]

They might mean what they say but it's not intuitive at all. Really confusing way to design a UI.

[@RussellRiker]

More of these please sir.. that was fun.

[@dansanger5340]

This is basically the same as the DLL Hell that Windows used to suffer from, and which they mostly fixed. Libraries should not be shared between applications, unless they are part of the OS. App installers should not install shared libraries. Any library that an app installs should be used and updated only by and for that app. Only the OS should install shared libraries. If the OS needs to update a library, it should almost always (except for security updates) leave the old version in place and install a new version side by side. Existing apps should continue to use the old version unless the app itself is updated.

[@the-real-zpero]

This series is going to be interesting because I too am trying to make the switch to Linux recently and I too have ran into some problems. I have an MSI Delta 15 AMD Advantage Edition laptop, and I have inserted a second nvme drive into it. The idea is that windows is on one nvme and Linux on the other. I decided to install Garuda Gragonized and it all went relatively well at first. However the issue I had was that upon installing Steam, I realized that my native Linux games were running on the integrated AMD GPU as opposed to the dedicated AMD GPU. I tried to fix the problem to no avail. I tried adding that "DRI_PRIME=1 %command%" flag to the launch option of the game within Steam (as described in a forum post I found), but it didn't work. I then tried some fancy commands I didn't really understand into the command line, but i don't think it did anything. They were something about setting up a "sink" and a "source" or something like that. It had to do with rendering on the dGPU and passing it to the iGPU so it seemed very promising, but it didn't solve my problem. After that I tried a different launch command in steam. I think it was "prime-run %command%". This definitely did not work because it actually would crash the game as soon as it attempted to start. I know that with the DRI_PRIME command it was still running on the iGPU because I had actually also installed Mangohud and I edited the config file to show more information, and I could clearly see "Cezanne" for the name of the gpu instead of the weird name it shows when it runs on the dGPU. I then decided to just try another distro so I tried to install Fedora 34. It didn't recognize my network adapter despite it being an Intel one (apparently those usually work in Linux) so I tried to install Fedora 35 Beta. Unfortunately I goofed during the installation and clicked "delete all partitions" meaning to clear out all the partitions on the linux nvme, not realizing it would also grab the windows one as well. I ended up nuking my windows. Luckily I had backups of everything so not much loss other than a few hours of my free time. I have since been thinking about this issue and I'm not sure if perhaps I typed the "sink" command backwards and told my computer to render on the iGPU and send it to the dGPU. My laptop doesn't have a MUX switch so the display is wired to the iGPU and the dGPU is wired through the iGPU. Perhaps this was causing the game not launching assuming I typed the command backwards? I don't know, I think I'll try again next week end. Someone told be to use Lutris but I don't really understand what Lutris is. Why are there so many compatibility programs? Wine, wine tricks, dxvk, Lutris, proton, proton tricks, etc... Maybe they all do different things but I don't really understand the difference. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to share. I'll be trying to do the same challenges that Linus and Luke because I too want to switch to Linux, as I've been watching some Linux videos for a while now.

[@acuriouswanderer7651]

As a newbie programmer I personally started with manjaro for my first distro with no Linux experience. To set everything up it took me days and I didn't know what I was doing. I'd say that for people who like the process of trial by error, learning by doing things and being fine with having no computer for hours or days it's an amazing first distro. I genuinely really enjoyed learning manjaro and arch and recommended it to a few friends of mine who all enjoyed it. But I wouldn't recommend it to most of my friends. Mainly because to understand the arch wiki you need quite a bit of knowledge in computers/programming.

[@MrMunkyMeat]

The point I see a large portion of the linux tech community not grasping, is that this is supposed to be about how an "average" user would fair, not someone with a career in IT. Linux is awesome because you can literally make it what ever you want. Most average users just want it to work "easily" and "reliably". I.E. one click installs and not have the system break because you do an update.

[@BrodieRobertson]

This is absolutely true and my video was intended to provide context where I had expected Anthony to be doing so not to say Linux is for everyone

[@liesdamnlies3372]

The irony I don’t get here is that Linux has been exactly that for people I’ve gotten to switch. Easily and reliable, _especially_ compared to Windows. But those people are also not like Linus, where they know enough about tech to be dangerous but not enough to stop themselves from breaking things.

[@anantgupta1188]

We need to have a windows competition hosted by brodie, dt, luke smith, mental outlawe etc

[@anatoly9664]

It should be noted at 2:40 what he looked up was best distros for gaming so having a distro on the best for gaming list that explicitly has the caveat of being difficult to set up for gaming is a big problem for a list like this

[@BrodieRobertson]

The caveat was a comparison against being easy to use, not the entire list

[@BloodRoseRecords]

6:10 -- big same, buddy. and like, a decade later, I still use it 14:30 -- There is in the Display settings; it's click and drag to reorder the windows. The Display settings are really, really limited, though.

[@malelonewolf80]

Interesting reaction video. I myself have come across the left screen behaves like the right screen and vice versa problem, but I got that fixed. The latest issue however I did not find a solution for. It seems to be a bug that persists, and have presisted for years apparantly, on debian based distros. And that is if you are trying to copy a large amunt of files, which in total are big in sizes, think 32 Gb or more, to a usb thumb drive, then the file copy window always freezes. I have had this problem on several computers (on every usb port on those computers), several debian based distros, using several different usb thumb drives (usb 2.0 and usb 3.0), even different formatted usb drives (Fat32, and exFAT). The problem even persisted on a fresh install of Raspbian OS on a Raspberry pi. However, if I try to copy the same files to a usb harddrive, then there is no issues what so ever. So that was the solution I had to go for, purchase a usb harddrive to copy the files to, since I could not resolve the problem of copying the files to a usb thumb drive without the copy windows freezing up. I am a bit tempted to try an Arch-based distro to see if the problem is on those distros as well. But debian based distros are often refered to as beginner friendly. The likes of Ubuntu, and Linux Mint. The latter is what I have tried to use most. And as such, supposedly beginner friendly distros, there should not be bugs related to the use of usb thumb drives. Was it some kind of odd piece of hardware, well then I could give the distros som slack, but not on such commonplace hardware as a simple usb thumb drive. Especially not when said thumb drives works well on both Windows and Mac.

[@zerotheory941]

Yeah I put very little blame on Linus.. Most of the Blame lies on Pop. You can't bill yourself as the "Beginner friendly distro." and then have something a beginner would do, like install Steam, break the system.

[@reneeprkl1843]

Very much this. It's like 90% on Pop maintainers, 10% on Linus for not reading.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

@@reneeprkl1843 I say at least 50/50, but I’m much less forgiving of mistakes in general, by both myself and others.

[@Yurie13]

i think you are the only linux person i watched that agreed that massive wall of text should have a sense of importance.. from my experience on my manjaro kde days.. all of these "guide" immediately opts out to using terminal.. so Linus' statement is not weird.. Linus' experience is actually on-par representation of average person trying linux..

[@stanzacosmi]

i know late, but the thing he needed to type shoudl have been "Yes, I know I will break something on my system"

[@TheeJake]

The mint live cd was the reason why I used manjaro as my first distro

[@ronyjui747]

I think the most annoying thing about Linux, in general, is all Linux guy thinks all the people are technical like them. I heard all of them say like oh you can just run this command to do this etc. most of the people are not technical. I remember when I tried to install Linux the first time I was confused about what is a distro is. When we do a fresh install we all expect it to work as a new computer. It's not ideal if we need to fix issues after a fresh install. I think the Linux community should work together to polish it to its finest. Then all the general users will be able to realize how good Linux is.

[@BrodieRobertson]

That's the mentality I'm hoping to change

[@motoryzen]

Yeah your desire has already been done. It's called Linux Mint Cinnamon, and it's BEEN rock solid, stable, and beginner user friendly for many years now. All of that has been a part of Clem and his Mint team's mission statement.

[@fl0wedm612]

12:55 The columns refer to if the driver is open source, and if it's installed. If both are true, both are checked.

[@mechanicallydev4536]

Which is stupid and should be replaced by flags. Nvidia [Proprietary] [Installed] Nouveau [Open-Source]

[@id01_01]

10:12 OMG he's removing the desktop LOL

[@MyNameIsntRyan]

Also Linus says he was talking about getting desktop notifications working for discord, and he was not able to afaik.

[@trustytraitor]

I chose Manjaro as my first distro hoping that ill accidentally break it a lot so I have to learn how to fix it

[@Quettesh]

I don't consider Discord "working" if major features don't work.

[@BrodieRobertson]

What are you talking about?

[@hojjat5000]

11:38 well, it's not gonna happen, unless you create this file /etc/apt/break-my-system which ok with me. I wouldn't mind if Debian accepts this merge request. 12:57 the first column is actually a boolean value that says something is opensource or not. The second column is also a boolean value that says something is installed or not. So, if in your design language you're supposed to show booleans with a checkbox, then you'll end up with something like this. A better UI would probably change "installed" to "status" and for false values would write "not installed" in the cell and for true would write "installed". Also it would change the "open source" column to "license" or something and write the words "open source" and "proprietary" instead of the checkbox. But the statement "it absolutely doesn't make any sense" is not accurate. It makes some sense, but it definitely need to change, specially for noobs.

[@mskiptr]

Even leaving labels as is, and just putting words (yes|no) would likely clear the confusion. Checkboxes are generally for stuff _you_ can toggle

[@arthurbttf]

It only makes sense when you stop to think about it.. Very bad design

[@Poldovico]

It makes no sense to represent an inalterable factual statement as a checkbox. It's a control element, unless you can click it make the drivers become open source, that's an insane thing to use.

[@diablo.the.cheater]

@@Poldovico -Clicks nvidia drivers checkbox -??? -Nvidia announces that is going to make the drivers open source

[@denizkendirci]

If i remember correctly, my first linux experience was with SuSE in 2001. And it was hard at the begining, so i can relate to that.

[@SianaGearz]

SuSE came with such a glorious handbook!

[@SkylerLinux]

In regards to the multimoniter issues, I've had issues where different Distro's put my Displays in different orders

[@BrodieRobertson]

What GPU were you using?

[@Fuzzi999]

The Open-Source and Installed thing in the drivers gui is a manjaro thing not a KDE thing, it's their mangaro drivers stupid settings

[@Neuromancerism]

I dont know, if your OS makes you type out an entire sentence to do what you want it to do, i would certainly pause and consider wether i know what i am doing (unless i know what i am doing and why it does that)

[@svenkarlsen2702]

We were all noobs once

[@kevinsteinman8967]

I don't know about all of that. I still consider myself a noob and an idiot and I been using linux since Redhat 4.2.

[@svenkarlsen2702]

@@kevinsteinman8967 My first Linux install was back in 1999. That was also RedHat but I don't remember which version it was.

[@kevinsteinman8967]

@@svenkarlsen2702 That most likely was 4.2 as 4.0 was only insider, but 4.2 was sold commercially. And 1999 was when I did it also. Darn we are getting old. 4.1 was made but never released for some reason if I remember correctly.

[@svenkarlsen2702]

@@kevinsteinman8967 Linux doesn't make me feel that old. I had an Amiga back in the day, and used a few c64 computers before that.

[@kevinsteinman8967]

@@svenkarlsen2702 Yea I had an Amiga 2000 with super Agnus 2MB with 7MB of memory with a 68030/30 card. Don't remember the name of the card now. I actually even got SunOS to run on it sort of like LFS is today. The only thing I have left today is the PET. So yea I had lot's of Commodore's. If Commodore never folded, where would the Amiga be today is a question to ponder. Lot of people don't know but the AmigaOS built into the roms was actually a highly modified version of Unix which is the reason it was unix compatible. Sorry I get to rambling with fond memories.

[@fr0xk]

09:12 This is the major issue in package manager of Linux distributions. Dependencies of certain packages are tightly integrated with core functions of an operating system, messing with one affects others. FreeBSD did it right, flatpak is trying to do it right.

[@shodanxx]

Any distri that ship in a state where, your monitors and cursors are acting weird and it can't be fixed by right clicking the background, are simply broken.

[@MrFrog222]

It is actually highlighted but only apt displays color so apt-get wont display highlights

[@anneksiy]

Heyyo Brody, entertaining video as always! With regards to the discord audio streaming fix, have you gotten that working before?

[@BrodieRobertson]

I don't care about using it so I haven't but I know solutions do exist

[@theMoporter]

The commonly accepted way to do sceeensharing with mic and desktop/window audio this is to play around with sinks using pulseaudio. I'm not going into technicalities, but the general idea is that you merge your desktop audio and mic in one source which Discord records as your mic, and you also merge your desktop audio with the call audio from Discord into a sink, and feed that to your headphones. It's a PITA and it sucks that Discord is so crap at supporting Linux. This might all become a lot easier if Pipewire gets stable enough for most distros to agree on it, but it's still a shame on them.

[@blu3h4t]

it looked to me that the sound actually worked on the POP OS.

[@fuseteam]

btw pop fixed the "i don't know what i'm doing but do as i say!" ux bug xD

[@afuyan]

Last time I select that recommended Nvidia proprietary drivier, I can't enter Xorg. I have no idea why, I don't want to use my phone as a troubleshooting browser but I can't run browser in my Linux. So, I reboot to Windows, then installed a VMWare, mount that partition to my Boot Repair Disk distro VM, recover my data, delete the Linux Mint and I don't using Linux for 2 years until I got AMD laptop. Now I'm satisfied with KDE Neon even though Plasma crash so annoying when I developing a Qt5 app that didn't use KDE framework, it takes me a month to recognize that problem because of my compositor theme won't work in a normal Qt5 app. Such a troublesome.

[@BjornsTIR]

To be fair, the article is about gaming on Linux, so it's fair to assume that's also what's meant in the list of advantages.

[@BrodieRobertson]

It's in the same boat as saying easy to use but difficult to setup video editing, even if it's a popular use it's not core to the user experience.

[@misterdubsteppa]

Just straight up: my first distro was arch and for me that was the best choice. One could argue that it's because I am an IT-student (computer science), but you dont need to study for linux. There are 2 reasons. The first is that I am interested and willing to learn, when I have time. When I encounter a problem that I can't fix right now, I switch back to windows temporarily. Second: I know I will encounter problems on Linux. More problems than I ever encountered while using windows in the last 15 years. Maybe I was lucky with windows, I mean even while using vista I had no problems. But that is not the point. I knew I needed to fix problems mainly on my own. The reason there may be more problems on linux is, that periphery, games or other programs may not be made with linux in mind or just straigh-up don't run on linux. So I could have gone with an easy install and had never learned about grub, mkinitcpio, different filesystems, xorg vs wayland... and so on. But since I needed to learn about this at least a little bit during "installation" I may have the advantage of understanding problems more thoroughly and being at least able to pin down my problem better in to short google searches. E.g. I know about the grub-mkconfig so it didn't take me long to change the default boot option to the last one used; or I know about the mkinitcpio.conf so when I had the wrong keylayout, when asked for the passphrase, it didn't took me too long to learn about the existance of the keymap hook. Troubleshooting on Windows is subjectively rarer, because way more use-cases are working on windows than on linux. And it is objectively easier, because: First, the linux community is often (*not always*) toxic as good old modern warfare mp times. And second, you problems depend on your combination of software: the distro, the filesystem, the display server, the wm and de, encryption yes or no, pipewire vs alsa vs pulse etc. ... So there are fewer people using linux than using windows and while I believe that the percentage of actual users willing to help is higher with linux users, the specifics of your configuration may just reduce that group of helping hands again. I hate the fact that linux is not able to be easy for non-techsavvy people. I would love if some branches of our educational system would switch to linux, let it even be ubuntu, but shit just needs to work and that is a 99% chance with windows and at most a 50% chance with linux. 50-50 is not gonna cut it in areas where tech should just be the helping hand and not the central topic of discussion. In other words: Tech must be time spending and not time consuming. Linux doesn't do that, because it's whole philosophy answers the question "what needs to be easy?" completely different.

[@rsmith31416]

"The first is that I am interested and willing to learn, when I have time" That is the right mindset. If you can't wait and think for a moment, then you're going to have a difficult time with Linux and in many other things in life. It is also essential to get used to the way you're supposed to do things on Linux (e.g. using a CLI more often). Finally, if you take the time to read a little bit about Linux before using it, you will have a much easier ride. I even remember reading a "Getting started" guide provided in the old days of Ubuntu 10.04 and in all these years I haven't had major issues with Linux and even when an issue arises, I'm able to fix it rather quickly.

[@SkyFly19853]

I totally agree... Linux is supposed to be easier and more simple than Windows and Apple. No the opposite. But people from FOSS or Linux ignore this part. I am a Linux user, but I know what's going on...

[@danzaiver0084]

all you have to do is check the open source box and now the nvidia drivers are open source now, easy

[@OlaffLudwig]

Pop user here. I have been playing around with Arch (KDE ) and Manjaro (XFCE and KDE) and in the end I settled on Pop. It might have been me (100% I guess), but the ux has just been awesome since I went PopOs way. Setting up dual boot and having the boot loader (systemd) appear every time , when I switch on the pc, was so far, the biggest hassle. Other than that... "It just works"... Steam? Installed. No mans Sky (Lutris - GOG)? Runs like a charm. Visual Studio Code? No issue whatsoever... So far, so good. To be fair, I didn't modify any installation whatsover from a DE point of view. Vanilla Pop is just it... Right now, I only keep W10 partition, just to be able to play DayZ and EFT.

[@simonbaguley5847]

I agree with you Brodie, Linus shouldn't go near Arch based distros until he's less of a newbie... I speak from experience. Arch is complicated compared to Debian based systems (IMHO only)

[@BrodieRobertson]

If he wants to do it, it's his life but I'd advise against it

[@SnabbKassa]

Most of the gui based software app stores etc. on Linux still suck, whether it is Gnome Software or Snap Store or whatever. People will say that even Synaptic is too complex for new users, but it never gets stuck or does the wrong thing unless apt/dpkg itself throws a broken packages error or a timeout reached when processing triggers. Flatseal can only show what you have, instead of also being an interface to flathub. Tho flathub on the web has fairly easy flatpakref downloads, which to a new user, have a similar workflow to running an installer exe on windows. Most users hate learning terminal commands, so they just won't.