Fleabag is Not a Femcel

[@BroeyDeschanel]

this camera really looked and me and said, "I'm going to make her look like a distinguished 65-year old" again - no hate towards these thinkpiece writers! I won't tolerate anything mean in the comments. And yes... femcel and dissociative feminist aren't exactly the same... but they do fall under that "villain era" umbrella... and femcel just sounds better.

[@mad8598]

Hahaha obviously “femcel” in the title will get you more clicks than “dissociative feminist” but c’mon the two don’t mean remotely the same thing. And nobody in mainstream media is overly interested in telling stories about “femcels” - women perceived as unattractive and undesirable by those around them, and who are consistently unsuccessful in relationships, dating or even just non-harmful sex. Please don’t see this as a personal criticism, I just had to say something as the two really aren’t the same thing at all even remotely, and undesired women are hardly ever centred in narratives even though they DO exist IRL. I love your videos!!

[@BroeyDeschanel]

​@@mad8598 I think the term "femcel" has branched away in our vernacular from being women who are involuntarily celibate / seen as undesirable. The way I've seen it used in most recent media is to represent women going through a "villain arc" or "female edgelords" - which is what the title is referring to.

[@mad8598]

@@BroeyDeschanel OMG you replied to me! :D yeah. I think a lot of the trying to change the meaning is because everyone knows “incels” are toxic (so ironic that it was a woman who coined the term before garbage men ran with it) so trying to get away from that association. But part of it is society flinching at the thought of the existence of involuntarily celibate women - either buying into the sexist notion that they don’t exist because “any woman can get laid if she wants to, hurr durr” or just because women perceived as undesirable are stigmatised and therefore not given much attention or thought at all. Plenty of women in mainstream media portrayed as going through their villain phase (Crazy Ex Girlfriend) or as female edgelords (Fleabag) are also portrayed as still desirable and romantically/sexually active. I’m feeling a bit weird advocating for a group with the “-cel” suffix but they do exist and the female experience isn’t the same as male incels - they seem to be a lot less of a very real danger to the opposite sex for a start, LOL.

[@2nd3rd1st]

My camera is getting "intellectual Pocahontas" vibes

[@Neo1978]

You look more distinguished and young. Yet still knowledgeable and quite intelligent.

[@-topic9506]

"how dare a female writer portray their female characters as human beings instead of idealized symbols of revolutionary feminism?" is all I'm hearing from these critics

[@amethystdream8251]

Seriously. Why is it so wrong to be mundane as a woman? I’m so confused as to how the reality of us is so offensive to some that we need to make ourselves some type of ideal or fantasy in order to be palatable

[@fernandavalastro5629]

right?

[@ЕвгенияВишневская-е3ш]

in my view fleabag looks exactly like a symbol of revolutionary feminism and not like a real woman. she has too much inner strength, I don't have even 0.0001 of her's. and most women don't

[@-topic9506]

@@ЕвгенияВишневская-е3ш what a weird and extremely untrue thing to say... i don't see her as overly strong, just a good pretender and internalizer. and saying most women aren't that strong is just straight up incorrect. most women I know are incredibly strong mentally.

[@ЕвгенияВишневская-е3ш]

@@-topic9506 ok, mb I'm extremely unlucky, that's all I can say

[@msr760]

Anytime a woman makes any art with genuine feeling (Fleabag, Phoebe Bridgers, Mitski, Fiona Apple, etc). other women treat it, and the women who made it, as not human. People literally refuse to see Phoebe, Mitski, and Fiona as anything but a part of the "sad girl" aesthetic which is just as dehumanizing as when men make art that refuses to see women as fully-fleshed out people. It's like they're so excited to see women portrayed as people they just go too far and make it into a ~thing~. Women can't just be human, they have to be part of a trend, subculture, or tik tok specific niche.

[@andgainingspeed]

Is that reaction hard wired, caused by environmental conditioning, or both?

[@waitingtodie5174]

@@andgainingspeed honestly I think it's definitely environmental conditioning especially by social media in the younger generations

[@FeyPax]

@@waitingtodie5174 I agree although there has always been this mystification surrounding women throughout history. But I definitely agree that it’s gotten worse as we are able to codify specific “types” of women and their aesthetic.

[@aviparmy-lthatblinkedoncew774]

This is actually really crazy because the entire context behind Lana del Rey having a targeted meltdown was with the fact that she was being dehumanized because she made "sad girl" music and it leaad to her being targeted by promenent feminists, this by no means is a justification for her racially-motivated behavior but it is very interesting to think about the way she was discussed in terms of her lyrical content

[@ShesBearynice]

Dog, the whole thing is that these narratives, these stories? They’re white. What is missing here is the critique of the self-pitying yt princess who demands she is treated properly in a world that deemed her human already- insufficient and dumb, but Yt nonetheless. Y’all want to see yourselves as oppressed so badly. 😂

[@mrigashiradoe]

when my grandmother passed away in 2019 all i remember was that feeling fleabag had, "all the love i had for her, where can i put it now?". fleabag was just the average woman to me. i never understood the need to label her some "femcel". she was the modern woman, grieving, falling all over the place, and looking for connection. aren't we all?

[@ShesBearynice]

No. We’re not all white women with the privilege of having families wealthy enough to hold goddamn art gallery events 😂. This is why y’all’s narratives are harmful and unimportant, you think yourselves the center of reality when you’re really the glue that holds white supremacy together.

[@mrigashiradoe]

@@ShesBearynice ok troll

[@ShesBearynice]

@@mrigashiradoe Can’t handle the idea that your entire need to center yourself in anything is rooted in Yt supremacy and that you should stop and shut up? Lol

[@mrigashiradoe]

@@ShesBearynice nah b, ur just a whole narcissistic troll

[@ShesBearynice]

@@mrigashiradoe Narcissist? Do you know what that word means? I can be an asshole and also be willing to acknowledge the feelings of others. I’m choosing to be disrespectful to you specifically because you don’t understand the world around you and it’s suffering and you choose to arrogantly support yourself despite the harm it causes for everyone.

[@alicethemad1613]

A lot of these points read to me as if women just aren’t allowed to express exhaustion. That somehow portraying depression and burnout and disillusionment without having some sort of energetic happy upbeat ending to “get things back on track” is anti-feminist and unproductive. You’re allowed to feel miserable and defeated but you’re not allowed to feel it for more than 5 minutes. You’re allowed to struggle with your mental health but you’re not allowed to actually have it meaningfully affect your life. Women must be constant bastions of either forced positivity or righteous indignation as if we’re all the barebreasted personifications of lady France in revolutionary art.

[@alicethemad1613]

Also replying to my own comment to add, because I’m lame. The whole “other people have it so much worse so why are you sad?” thing is literally just the “kids are starving in Africa so eat your veggies” but feminist flavored. It seems ridiculous to say to anyone suffering from grief or trauma or any kind of mental health issue or emotional distress that “other people have it worse so shut up”. Hopefully we would all recognize that as not only unhelpful but blatantly cruel and inhuman. But suddenly when we say it to women with a veneer of feminism plastered overtop its activism. It’s just ableism in a new coat of paint. If you’re going to pretend to care about mental health the least you could do is shut up and listen. (Not directed at broey ofc, a general sort of “you”)

[@ShesBearynice]

Women??? Or do you mean white women? Because, like, I agree, we aren’t allowed to express exhaustion, unless we’re white, in which case you get a whole movie or 6 about being exhausted while we BIPOC women get dead friends 😂

[@ShesBearynice]

@@alicethemad1613 Nah, the “other people have it bad” thing for you, Alice; is poison to the psyche of the white woman victim. Drink it. Because you don’t get to be pitied in a world where others don’t get to be seen as human because YOU are the standard. This is a rejection of responsibility. You all want to be yt saviors and martyrs soooo bad.

[@eatmanyzoos]

@@ShesBearynice didnt you know the only people that matter or get portrayal are the people who spend all the money?

[@anaiswinter9893]

@@ShesBearynice I understand that due to lack of good representation this frustration is valid. This desperately needs to change. This piece has been about a set of white women and their struggles but I don´t think it invalidates their experience. I want more shows about PoC, like Reservation Dogs, Atlanta and I may destroy you (which got snubbed criminally) and I hope we see more of that but I do think Trauma is Trauma. I wanna see all representations and explorations. Not only Trauma , for the record.....just broader representation. I love to watch shows like that because they let me in on something that I may not have experienced just the same way. I know discrimation of being poor, a bastard in a catholic town, someone mentally ill and queer (which in a small catholic town.....sucks balls) but I cannot really get racism or trans discrimination because I don´t belong to those groups. I just wish we wouldnt fight each other instead of bonding and fighting together against that injustice, which may sound naive. Hope I didn´t offend. Let me know if I did.

[@CRUSH40GIRL]

its so tragic how EVERYTHING women do has to be boxed under a label or some kind of social commentary. We cant be sad and defeated without being called a "femcel dismissive feminist", we cant be aloof and purposefully airheaded without being accused of "propelling stereotypes and setting women back". EVERYTHING we do has to be some kind of feminist commentary and we cant just LIVE!

[@vivilonrane1330]

I mean, maybe it has to do with a growing awareness of how everything has a political dimension too. This might be not such a bad thing, as only through awareness we can right systemic wrongs. I understand the frustration but maybe the time right now demands us to work through it and understand this as a chance for change anyway

[@blobbedmon]

Well, we can't be sad about love without being called an "Incel redpilled mgtow in his 14yo alt right edgy neckbeard phase" soooo

[@beckysuperswag]

now you know how black women feel. we always have to represent all of black women

[@Bussy_Destroyer]

@@vivilonrane1330 'Righting systemic wrongs' isn't done by hypercriticising women's behaviour. It's literally just the old misogynist 'good women vs. bad women' dichotomy, rebranded. It's dehumanising.

[@FirstnameLastname-zq8oy]

To be fair, why tf would a woman want to be “purposefully airheaded” unless she’s playing a character or doing a bit. Otherwise, women playing dumb is not something that should be encouraged as some quirky fun personality trait. Men rarely ever intentionally act airheaded, so it’s weird that a few women do this, and I have a strong feeling it’s because society associates being feminine/ hyper-feminine with being ditzy/ airheaded.

[@hotpinkinthenight]

as a woman of colour i find it frustrating when people use the whiteness of these characters as a reason to denigrate fleabag, rooney's works, etc. mainly because it feels very deflective. if they're tired of messy female characters being overwhelmingly white then maybe channelling efforts into reading and promoting messy female characters of colour, by authors of colour, would be more productive. either way it's something we should be doing regardless of how we feel about waller-bridge & rooney

[@bananahat3350]

I think Diane from BoJack Horseman is a pretty well done POC character from a popular show who embodies the messy woman trope as a POC. She makes mistakes, spends a season dissociating, and generally just tries to navigate her mental health in a realistic and relatable way.

[@ProudFilthyCasual]

They are not ready for this conversation ma'am. I wish you the best.

[@afletcher]

Was surprised that Michaela Coel’s ‘I May Destroy You’ was not included. Doesn’t fit the white women narrative I guess.

[@R_S747]

@Brian Masters "a huge problem with POCs in general, create your own stuff" ??? there are plenty of non white artists that do create great art that aren't being paid attention to at all, that's the point of the comment, not that people of colour won't create their own stuff??? Generalising all people of colour as wanting to rip off white people is...

[@eckat5]

This discourse frustrates me so much! It’s like if you spent half as much of your time and energy promoting WOC in film & literature, as you do demonizing white female creators, maybe there would be a bit less of a gap in attention & popularity!!!

[@jaman_jy]

these articles really jump right into the entire "women aren't allowed to be flawed" narrative without even realizing it and it is painful to watch.

[@Bussy_Destroyer]

It always circles back to 'you're being a woman wrong', doesn't it...

[@svvmaq_]

@@Bussy_Destroyerseriously

[@iridescentraindrops]

Personally I have no problem with flawed female characters, but how about women creating inspirational characters whose main characteristics are not just "I'm insecure and mentally unstable" but a woman that is determined, confident, highly intelligent, or a hero. That would also be good to watch made from a female director.

[@thegreenjellybean77]

​What you are saying is an ideal. What a woman should thrive to be but what Fleabag showed was real. It's how real life is like. It's unstable and you always don't know how to figure things out. The finale was like a punch in the gut because it wasn't the ideal ending but it was very real and sometimes we also need to potray this realistic side of life as well. ​@@iridescentraindrops

[@iridescentraindrops]

@@thegreenjellybean77 I'm sorry, but is Indiana Jones realistic? James Bond, Jason Bourne, John Wick? All I was saying is that it would be nice to see a female equivalent to that. There's enough realistic portrayals of sad, broken female characters imo.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

‘Fleabag’ was such a fun show and also beautifully written and most importantly, cleverly edited. I was sad to see people use it as a vehicle for questionable behaviour.

[@courtniecarr4308]

You worded this so well!! I remember seeing the “fleabag era” trend on tik tok before I watched the show, and then I actually watched the show. Fleabag didn’t even WANT to be in her own fleabag era. Idk how people arrived at that conclusion after watching the show.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

@@courtniecarr4308 Thank You for your comment. I think people just wanted the aesthetically pleasing pain.

[@carolineswn4]

Yes!!!! I completely agree and have been thinking ab this for a while. You worded it so well.

[@Sam-0827]

I agree, fleabag is literally centered around her pain and trauma with her family and dead best friend .the whole point of fleabag is watching her slow growth and learning how to deal with trauma properly

[@m.josena4485]

@@courtniecarr4308 I mean idk I always felt like it meant people related to the way her life to their own, if that made any sense ?

[@iulia3914]

I get so furious when people criticise fleabag for being “dissociative feminism.” Where did pwb say she was writing the feminist manifesto with fleabag?? Women can’t just produce art for self expression it seems, there has to be some kind of social motive, which in turn must be picked apart, because the only thing feminism seems to be doing these days is telling other feminists that they’re doing the wrong kind of feminism. Is any other movement held to such scrutiny?

[@jayvega9641]

"Is any other MOVEMENT held to such scrutiny?" Which movement, my dear; the Fleabag movement or the Dissociative feminist movement?

[@Bussy_Destroyer]

@@jayvega9641 feminism, my reading-comprehension-challenged pal

[@jayvega9641]

@@Bussy_Destroyer can't catch sarcasm, huh? Got it. Ps. Feminism gets too much credit/blame for the mess we are in.

[@anthonytitone]

If ur art doesn’t inspire critique then it probably isn’t good, if women want to tie it to feminism they’re doing that because they believe it speaks to issues in some way positive or negative, u don’t have to agree to them but it hardly seems helpful to wish media critics would just stop talking about feminism in art made by women,

[@ChocolatexCherries3]

​@jayvega9641 apparently, you can't catch sarcasm either huh pal.

[@thegreenworld6440]

There is something so broken in the way people conflate "protagonist" with "hero" and assume that if a character commits some kind of harmful action the audience is supposed to emulate that action.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

I don't think it's broken. For most stories protagonist does mean hero, so when you see something that breaks that mold some may not realize it is breaking that mold and just assume that the writer is automatically on the protagonists side when that isn't the case.

[@thrawncaedusl717]

Yup, the growing movement to judge specific characters instead of looking at their role in the narrative as a whole is so dumb. Darth Vader is great AS A VILLAIN. Saying that does not mean that I support some kind of space fascism, but that I think the role he played in the story was valuable. Fiction is also just overly judged and moralized at this point, which is a large part of the problem.

[@TheSpecialJ11]

It's because people don't grow up. I've noticed a lot of people with a child's worldview running around. They know more about the world than a child but don't understand it on a deeper level than them, so that's the way they interpret stories.

[@OurWorldAhead]

I mean there's also something called an anti hero. I see her as more of that, similar to Deadpool but watered down. Both characters show complex human feelings and you're still rooting for them, but they're not typical heroes.

[@clara-nt9rx]

​@@judeconnor-macintyre9874thats only true for childrens stories.

[@quantumlandbooks4005]

People don't want real feminism. They want perfect performances of feminism and everything that doesn't hold up to their level of perfection is consequently evil.

[@arol1644]

yeah, they want corporate capitalism feminism, with characters talking in cardboard cutout catchphrases

[@Jamhael1]

Then it shows that the 3rd Wave Feminism is a failure - it is "performatic" instead of pursuing real change.

[@supposedlymel]

I think the reason why Fleabag, as well as her season of Killing Eve were so successful, is because, like you said, they don't have overtly sociological storylines. Just because the leads are women does not mean we have to examine all the aspects of them being a woman in society. They just exist. I know a lot of queer women felt that way as well with killing eve; you had these two queer female leads just existing, and it was like a breath of fresh air. And the same with Fleabag. She is a woman who is suffering from numerous emotional moments throughout her life, just as any male character would.

[@kathleen2268]

I feel like Michaela Coel is another female millennial writer who has made some incredible work. Chewing Gum is hysterical and I May Destroy You was for me capital g Great

[@moeezS]

I May Destroy You is amazing, much like Fleabag.

[@guyafrica7894]

I kept thinking of her too

[@Aster_Risk]

Michaela and Phoebe are linked in my head, because I feel like their work has similarities in such a good way.

[@julius-ceasar]

@@Aster_Risk same, and these two are one of my favourite writer-director-actors, can’t wait to see their future projects

[@happygucci5094]

Definitely

[@thomashester2]

Yeah I feel the misinterpretation also reminds me of people misassigning Zoey Deschannel’s character in 500 days of Summer as a MPDG like it’s not a demantaling of the trope

[@erikdaniels0n]

500 Days of Summer is a lot smarter than a lot of people give it credit for

[@redsands1001]

500 days of summer is smarter than its writer

[@mjewrites]

i'm not sure if this was the writer's intention but the film sells joseph gordon-levitt's character's POV so well that it tricks you into thinking she's an MPG, or at the very least a horrible person, until the last 20 minutes of the film.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I remember fighting my ex fiancé about that movie 😂 He didn’t get how people dont owe you love just because youre obsessed with them. Sometimes you’re just not “the one” so do you really want to be with someone who doesn’t feel about you that way? And the ending… I was so annoyed but he called it a happy hopeful ending And no, i dont know why i was with him for so long. I guess sunk cost fallacy?

[@awesomeallyse]

@@mjewrites it was, this is part of the reason why it starts off "This isn't a love story" not because they don't end up together, but because Levitt's character is so delusional

[@henrye3935]

Modern cinema and TV often seem to think that empowerment is writing someone who's infallible and good at everything. They write characters who start the story correct, travel through it correct, and by the end have proven they're correct. I think Fleabag is phenomenal and struck a chord with so many people, because it wasn't afraid to write a realistic protagonist. It wasn't afraid to make being a woman (or person for that matter) ugly, difficult, and confusing. it wasn't afraid to write someone who's wrong sometimes. People could see themselves in her and felt okay about it. That's empowerment. I also think what gets overlooked in these arguments against the work is the very simple fact that... writing, writing a compelling story, a three-dimensional character, believable conflict is really really really really really really really hard. And having true authorship over how it may be read, how it may be interpreted, over what people think you're really "saying" is near impossible. Expecting a pitch perfect, razor sharp thematic allegory that's objectively "good" for society on top of all this, is just... silly. Media like this is an absolute miracle of human and societal observation, and of a bold willingness to be vulnerable. It's why it's so rare and often causes such a stir.

[@CaptainVincentRiley]

I couldn't agree more! So often I've complained about modern female characters being written as flawless, good at everything and morally unquestionable. And I've heard others utter the same complaints. Yet when somebody finally writes an amazing character like Fleabag, people complain about her not being a perfect woman who will get everything right. Or about her not representing every class and ethnicity at once. It's so frustrating.

[@henrye3935]

@@eatmanyzoos "Everything you see is to make money," In my experience this comment is just flatly untrue. Maybe you've had a different experience, but myself, other screenwriters I know, and development execs/producers I work with aren't sitting around trying to think of money making ideas. Every general meeting and pitch meeting I've ever had has been about story, character, how it will fit into their slate of other work, and how it will sit at this time in the world - because if you get all that right, if you make something great in those regards, then the money usually comes anyway. Money alone is not a great catalyst for creativity. To earn a living the best you can do is just tell a good story well and hope someone likes it enough to give it a chance. Fleabag was a labor of love that was never meant to earn any money. It started as an idea for a character and a tiny performance at the Edinburgh Fringe. Phoebe Waller-Bridge managed to express something deeply human that resonated with millions (and in your version of event she did this all while execs were only using her as a tool to make money). You can't give that enough credit.

[@barrieashby5778]

this!! any story with a female character who is not constantly perfect is seen as anti feminist or promoting something awful. i’ve seen people do this with fleabag, ladybird, never have i ever, and the books mentioned in this video. i just don’t get why female characters can’t be realistic without apparently being a threat to feminism.

[@jayvega9641]

I agree that movies/TV should not portray people as perfect or infallible (even tho I have never seen it since the 70s) but to portray anyone, especially women, as basket cases is nauseating -- the Alienation Effect is on full steroids today.

[@henrye3935]

@@jayvega9641 I think recent Marvel is a strong example of woman being written as infallible. Jane from Thor: Love and Thunder is written as generic strong woman without a weakness (cancer is an illness, not an internal weakness, like Tony's vanity or Cap's naivety). The most recent Charlie's Angels adaptation comes to mind, where each member is written as good at everything. The Mulan adaptation, she's basically super human. This is all just off the top of my head. I'm not really sure what you mean by basket case, especially in relation to Fleebag.

[@EbonyPenmarks]

It's kinda crazy because Fleabag also has a life you DON'T want. People really overestimate Fleabag's privilege and power. No text or evidence in the play or show is indicating that Flea has a close circle of colleagues that believe in her. Her charisma is primarily effective for the audience, not for the other persons or characters. No one really pats her on the back and says, "Wow, Flea, you're so funny. I'm just going to hand you a comedy bar for you to own."

[@cajunguy6502]

Fleabag is what would happen is someone was trying to rewrite Sex in the City with Always Sunny characters. I mean that lovingly lol

[@evapaiz596]

@@cajunguy6502the crossover we truly need lol

[@abigailelliot5503]

I agree with you completely. Fleabag is an incredibly human story. I thought it was obvious that her inability to connect with her romantic/sexual partners was a result of her emotionally stunted upbringing and continued mistreatment by her family. And that her dissociation and occasional "bad behavoir" were her coping mechanisms to deal with her grief for her mother, compounded by grief and guilt over the loss of her best friend. That is the absolutel crux of the story. We don't need all of our media to be hitting us over the head with so called feminist morals, you are right, it's didactic and empty. I think Fleabag stands up as a feminist work, NOT because Fleabag herself is a feminist hero to look up to, but becsuse it is an honest and revealing representation of a singular woman's life. With all of its mess. In fact, constantly expecting women to live up to the "perfect feminist ideal", I believe, is incredibly UN-feminist. Because it puts all of the responsibility on the woman and does not acknowledge the difficulties that women actually face that may stop them from being able to do this. So yeah... fuck these "dissociative feminism" criticisms. They really seem like just another excuse to shit on women.

[@athenajaxon2397]

Honestly female written and directed media gets such an insane amount of criticism and even when it's praised eventually there's a backlash to it

[@flamingmanure]

" even when it's praised eventually there's a backlash to it" could you give some examples?

[@sofiamcbee6019]

​@@flamingmanureFleabag was initially highly praised and critically acclaimed. The backlash this channel refers to is more recent.

[@Hoganply]

Maybe because some that turn out terribly have been known to try to preempt some of the inevitable criticism dishonestly. The corporate feminist marketing technique works because blaming all criticism on 'misogyny' often works, but only for a time.

[@xx___x]

I feel like anyone who accuses Flesbag as disassociating as something related to being a bad feminist has obviously never been depressed and trying their damn hardest not to have a mental breakdown.

[@Se7enRemain]

Genuinely inhumane. The authors of these articles have to be Fred 2-esque mosquito creatures

[@velvethunder]

i watched fleabag with my mom for the first time. we were so furious with the way her family treats her from their very fist interaction. so happy for her at the end... my mom and i agree that we would have trashed the entire place in the godmother's exhibit. fleabag is not a dark comedy, it's a psychological horror showcasing the terrible and abhorrent, yet totally mundane ways, people abuse other people and most of it happens to our protagonist, who is so used to it she believes she is the one in the wrong when we can clearly see her abuse taking place!!!! neither my mom or me enjoyed the first season. it was torture, as it was supposed to be, to my mom , who is a survivor of parental abuse , it was triggering. the second season did help us heal, though. not only because claire finally takes fleabag's side but also because fleabag herself starts defending herself against both external and internal abuse. great stuff!!! ps: i also lost my grandmother recently. we were very close. i believe that the people who loved you will always be with you

[@yuri2604]

"most of it happens to our protagonist". Uhhmm... that is the one part I disagree. Claire is obviously the msot abused character in the series, even by Flea herself. Fleabag is totally unrelieble as a sister, so she really spends most of her time with no one to trust, even though she tries to please everybody. But like you said, the show is really about how people abuse each other, even when not that's not the intention.

[@_baleriiia]

@@yuri2604 except Claire actually chose his sick husband over her own sister and then blamed her for him trying to kissing her and then reminded her of her best friends death…

[@vero-kd8vg]

YES I never see it discussed how Flea is treated like shit by her family. I think there's a lot of feminist critique on how she's constantly submitted to humilliation and mistreatment, shunned if she "makes a scene" about it and still expected to always be helpful and supportive. The only one she can rely on (and to whom she later becomes reliable to) is Claire, and Martin even attempts to destroy that bond.

[@h.w.b.9503]

Yes! The first season made me so damn angry with her family, season 2 was cathartic

[@BuzziMuzzi]

@@yuri2604 Disagree. Many times throughout the show it showed how she was the only one wanting to be there for Claire. Her being an annoying little sister acting like a twat like stealing her coat or breaking the trophy doesn't matter, it's just an annoying sibling thing. It's the deeper connection she continuously sought for with her. That scene with the miscarriage? Come one. Fleabag isn't unreliable as a sister.

[@WelfareChrist]

I’ve worked on and off in hospice care for nearing a decade now. By far the best way I’ve found to deal with loss and grief is something that was brought up in this video, it’s gratitude. Focusing on being grateful for the time you had with the person even when it was barely any at all, it doesn’t mean losing them doesn’t hurt but it shifts the focus from pain to gratitude and from what you’re experiencing to what they meant to you. And that, that private celebration of the joy another brought to your life, it can’t be taken or lost but only given up. So while gratitude might not stop the hurt of losing someone, I think it does a lot to strengthen us to face that hurt and not run from it.

[@mxflint1715]

Idk for me this feels more like ''finish your plate there are many starving kids in Africa'', I'm glad that for you it works but for me it just feels like ''oh don't be anxious''

[@-_-who314]

​@@mxflint1715 I understand it somewhat as an explanation of grief. You feel sad because your relationship with them has given you many warm and nice experiences. But, I also don't know.

[@WelfareChrist]

@@mxflint1715 It has to be genuine and foundational, its gonna feel like "finish your plate" if its not a decisions you're coming to on your own. In the face of death there is no 'wrong' way of coping I think. It'd be impossible to not feel anxious too. But gratitude isn't mutually exclusive with any of these feelings like despair, loss, anxiety. For me its grounded in the reality that it's amazing we exist at all, and it's tempered by watching people lose children and stand there telling me through tears how LUCKY they were to have had that love and to have known that joy. It still messes me up thinking about it. It almost doesn't feel like 'it works' for these people, it's just how you survive.

[@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085]

@@WelfareChrist i used to be such an angry and anxious person. The anxiety got cripplingly bad. If I wasn't working I'd be in my car driving in circles all day. It took a long time, but I finally made a habit out of kindness being my default. I kinda thought that was what I *had* been doing, but I think I was just showing indifference and expecting the world to respond in kind. I can't say I'm not at all an angry or an anxlous person anymore. It's still there, absolutely. And I turn forty jn a month. It may be too late for me to make any more drastic changes outside of redoubling my efforts im the areas I've already committed to. But I think about what I've done so far and the little bit of difference I can make in my own life and in the lives of others, and most of the time, it feels like enough.

[@TwinkleStarLemonFruit]

I really needed to read this today - Thank you so much.

[@ProfessorFlowers]

" We spend hours and hours watching shows about serial killers and why they are the way they are but we can't fathom that a hot girl might be sad because she had a difficult upbringing or because she lives in an Ever alienating World."

[@vaerighey4172]

Like you said, people aren't dissociating by choice. When you look into the reality of how many women, how many young girls, are abused it's really unsurprising that so many seemingly well-off women are fighting an internal war. This whole discussion online seems to ignoring the realities of womanhood, abuse, and mental health.

[@lilygreenall2837]

Honestly, these articles come across like women dragging other women for making nuanced art. It's probably not how it's meant, but requiring characters to fully represent social ideologies, like feminism or marxism, ends up stripping these characters of their personal identities, which is really their strength.

[@ShesBearynice]

Strength? What strength? The strength of appealing to white women who have just enough freedom to be dysfunctional with far less consequence than a black or WoC would have for simply trying to exist as society demands? 😂 What strength? The personal narratives that touch the hearts of the audience are only valuable to the audiences who find such nonsense as relatable- and while we can all relate to your universal trauma, you cannot fathom the disdain we have for your caucacity and the gall you display as you cry from a position of privilege. It’s literally the slave master’s wife crying about how hard her life is as she stabs the eyes out of the mixed kids that are the product of the SA of her black housemaid and her husband. You destroy us by accident and without even intending to. Against your will, no matter what, and you demand that we pity you? No, that we avoid ruthlessly despising you, even as you know that our empathy would mean our continued enslavement- even as you UNDERSTAND the mechanics of righteous indignation. If you understand what it’s like to be mad at oppression, and know that you hate your yt man- all men, even the ones you can destroy with a simple whimper- then you should know. You’re just as bad and equally unworthy of sympathy as the white man. We know you suffer unjustly, and understand the depth of the cruelty. That truth doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t matter. Because you rightfully do not flinch at the reality that men are abusive because of their own abuse, because it doesn’t change anything and 99% of it is just their fault anyway! We drag white women with glee tbh 😂

[@lilygreenall2837]

@@ShesBearynice well, I meant strength in a narrative sense, as in it gives them a strong narrative arc. But sure, good for you.

[@harriyanna]

this was so beautiful and it made me cry. especially about the section about grief. my mom died on 2021 and i lost a few more family members in 2022. grief truly does affect us in ways we never thought it would. sending you my love

[@BroeyDeschanel]

I'm so sorry to hear that Harriyanna

[@yandespar3490]

Yeah, all these "fleabag era" self-destructive takes have always weirded me out. Yes, Fleabag acts not rationally sometimes, often even, but who does? She acts the way she does because she has quite a lot of trauma and as a natural reaction of an imperfect human being to, quite frankly rough things that happen to her. And some things are just a result of her being this imperfect human being

[@cajunguy6502]

Fleabag is to girls what Rick Sanchez or Walter White are to boys. A characters who is written to be so toxic, but also has all the qualities youre too bold to express in yourself.

[@camilleconner2832]

What I think is interesting is that this same criticism about people privately divesting from activism could be said about Issa Rae. In season 2 of insecure, Issa ignores a racist principal that her job has to work with because she just doesn’t really care about her job and isn’t interested in rocking the boat. It takes her several episodes to correct this behavior, and even when she does she does it in a way that arguably makes it worse (the principal doesn’t want Hispanic kids to be in her after school program so she has them come in on Saturdays, effectively engaging in segregation). Because Issa is a person, she isn’t perfect and she isn’t going to make the most anti racist or feminist choice in every situation. None of us are. I think that criticizing her would come address as more blatantly misogynistic though because they can’t point to her privilege as an excuse so they ignore her. *edit bc I don’t think I expressed my last point well

[@Aster_Risk]

Perfect comparison.

[@michelen7880]

I wouldn’t say this is a good comparison, the ignoring of a racist boss that has control over your job is not the same choice as privately divesting from activism. That is public activism with public consequences. A better comparison would be the homophobia that Molly exhibits which is not checked by Issa’s character

[@ShesBearynice]

No. It’s because her reality literally is deeper and more complex than the privilege of these yt girls that would make it a bit fucking lame to call her out on- plus the fact that rocking the boat as a black woman means certain death if you do it hard enough. Why would you say people are using the privilege white women have as an “excuse” to write them off? That’s why they should be written off, sis, because they can afford to give up about existing in the same worlds that we do and STILL turn out fine. And even then, that doesn’t justify Issa Rae’s actions. We can criticize her still, being a flawed human is not excuse to give up, it’s just an explanation for moments of weakness that could not be avoided. You hang around and consume too much yt feminism, me thinks.

[@alltheworldatmyfeet]

I wouldnt be surprised if as usual these writers only look to famous rich white women for their definition and analysis of feminism. Dissociative feminism is a really interesting topic when looked at through women of color. No we cant ignore our oppression so easily as rich white women but we are certainly not all activists and there are plenty of grifters and pick mes. Feeling tired and dissociating is smth commodified by mainstream but certainly not new or unique for any group.

[@ShesBearynice]

@@alltheworldatmyfeet Exactly! But the thing is, those of us who are activists don’t socially dissociate like this, the problems we face prevent us from being able to assimilate into a society that we can even have any of these things these whites women have. Instead of being able to have only family drama or interpersonal or specific trauma from people, we have to watch as people who look like us are destroyed. We have to fear that we’re next to be consumed in the fires of Yt supremacy. It just feels like yt women having tantrums. These ladies in this comment section talk of how tired they are of activism which implies to me it’s not life or death every second of their lives like it is for us. I suppose it comes from not only having the liberation of “women” as a concern for life.

[@lobsterpaw]

the idea that someone with material comforts and privilege have no place in representing self-loathing and dissociation is just a reinterpretation of the social paradigms that already exist. i can't put it into words perfectly, but it comes across as just girlboss feminism. e: it might be hard for some people to accept (very understandably), but i think that intersectionality should include even the privileged.

[@alicethemad1613]

It also comes across as so… deeply victim-blamey. As though because a woman is white and rich not only is she incapable of being abused or even just still affected by misogyny, she’s not allowed to be traumatized by it. She has privilege so of course she can just “choose” to not be sad. It almost reads like because she has privilege she is necessarily just a stronger and better person than those with less by virtue of her birth, which is so weird because it’s the literal opposite of what these think piece writers are presumably trying to say.

[@Aster_Risk]

@@alicethemad1613 This idea of choosing not to be sad is offensive as a person who takes medication to stop my depression from ruining my fucking life. As if it's fun for people with mental illness to just not be happy.

[@lobsterpaw]

@@alicethemad1613 i totally agree. i think this is kind of a commonality among a lot of discourse that involves privilege, at least these days. i sometimes think that maybe social progress is happening so quickly and is so volatile (in the neutral sense) that it often just gets reduced to a sort of essentialism, which often completely undermines it. it's a sort of pop-sociology. it's certainly better than no social progress at all, but i think it's a phenomenon that's worth being conscious about.

[@ShesBearynice]

Exactly. It’s just an unearned pity party for going through what is necessarily a universal system of hardship despite having the most insulation from the violence at hand.

[@ShesBearynice]

intersectionality should not include the privileged. What? If by privileged, you mean white, they’re the problem. White men abe white women are just as bad as each other, white liberal activism just wants to hide that so they can infiltrate, dominate, and accidentally defang every movement against the yt supremacist status quo.

[@j1430]

the term femcel confuses me because why would she be if she’s a sex addict? she isnt a “nice girl” or “pick me” character either???

[@magdajabonska537]

Yeah, it's exhausting how people use "femcel' and "incel" for all people who are sexist and problematic even if they have/had LOTS of sex partners, I get that language evolves blah blah but can we NOT turn every term into an empty insult that can mean anything but means NOTHING at the same time?

[@JohnDoe-vc5qb]

It’s because the terms have been used to death and now people can’t use them properly. Same way you can’t be a simp if you’re actually getting to fuck, it literally goes against the definition.

[@starseer73]

basically every one of these internet terms for women just becomes a way to be mean to women

[@ambatuBUHSURK]

@@magdajabonska537 what's funny is people can use "language evolves" as an excuse as much as they want but the social weight and the shaming aspect of the slur incel still borrows from it's original archetype of a violent basement dwelling misogynist which is used against ANYONE that is even mildly sexist or misogynist.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

AFAIK femcel is not the same as a woman who is an incel, it comes from the root “feminism “, not “female incel” It is basically “feminist who took the feminism black pill” meaning they believe that patriarchy is inescapable and there is no point in even trying to improve anything and basically just roll down and cry and die type of thing. That’s how I learned of it and that’s the only way I know it used. So a female incel would have an irrational belief like “men dont want me because i’m fat that’s just my genetics and i cant escape it so why even try” while femcel is above, focused not on the lack of sexual partner, but on feminist activism.

[@manic_girl]

I lost my grandmother in this past summer in a very similar manner. Wishing you healing ❤️ gonna go re-watch the show

[@BroeyDeschanel]

I'm so sorry for your loss - and thank you

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I am so sorry for your loss❤ I lost my grandma at end of 2021 and this video really made me feel all the things I am so scared of feeling. I do try to be grateful that I even had someone in my life that I am this (what is the right word? sad doesn’t seem strong enough?troubled?distraught? hurt? one of these i guess until we get a better word) about losing.

[@ahobimo732]

I imagine that many artists experience a story akin to this... You look at the world, and you see a soulless, empty system that is utterly absent of the authentic, living, beating heart that you instinctively know exists within you. So you make a work of art that channels the raw truth of your experience of being human. You depict precisely what YOU think and feel as you make your way through the madhouse of "life". And people get it. Through some mysterious combination of luck and hard work, your message reaches people. And because you've told the truth, it resonates with them. They feel the truth and authenticity of what you've created. So you become a successful artist. Your art receives wide cultural recognition. The statements that you've made become an integral part of the public conversation. And then one day, you realize that your voice and your identity have been co-opted by broad social forces beyond your control. And somehow, that which was once so personal and precious to you, has become just another feature of the very same soulless, empty landscape that you were reacting to in the first place.

[@angely_tio]

💯

[@kannot1]

As a black girl, I was so shocked at how relatable My Year of Rest and Relaxation was to me. I read it on a weekend when I was literally high on sleeping pills😭😂💔 it was horrible and wonderful at the same time

[@jamescarr1265]

this is such a mood

[@jaegermeistersfriend]

I love how you always manage to bring something new to a conversation, like this might sound rude but sometimes when you teaser your next video and i see that its on a currently trendy topic i get a bit wary like "havent we discussed this to hell and back already" and yet you always find nuances and interesting perspectives to add to it that make me rewatch it 3 times

[@asapabu4826]

Broey dressed like fleabag? This better not awaken anything in me

[@guerillahag]

transcending superficial relatability and identity culture but feeling attraction and talent envy all in one go

[@fkacoolgrl]

i fear it already has for me tbh

[@Sam-0827]

I’m 😂

[@flowerchild4100]

28:24 thank you for making this and sharing this sentiment. I found so much comfort and solace in both Fleabag and Normal People. Then to get TikTok and my friends tell me that I was a bad feminist for leaning into the love for this media was really confusing. I found the points some of those articles made about this desire for an all encompassing, marketable label for yourself to be salient. But the rest of it just made me feel full of shame. I am so tired of feeling guilt and shame. I just want to be and Fleabag brings you to that emotional place of just being, even if it’s fleeting. I’m so grateful to get to experience your writing and insight.

[@eatmanyzoos]

i think modern women's embracing of self destruction and kink to deal with abuse instead of therapy appalling. have you learned to grow some balls and not submit? or are you reveling in your own lack of power? thats the problem and thats why this is anti-feminist from my perspective. what is appealing about a girl being abused and not resolving it?

[@jamescarr1265]

i think you need new friends lol

[@ruplayinggame3080]

Damn, I cried at clips from Fleabag and bits of your commentary because I remembered how this show made me feel. I think that dissociative feminism sounds like utter bullshit. Watching it has made me feel myself more deeply (and I know what dissociating is like, too well!). And absolutely, 100% Fleabag does care, she cares quite a lot, there is a scene in the first season, I think, where she gives the most perfect present and in that moment it became clear to me how empathetic she actually is, but it hurts her to be that, and how she has such a deep understanding of people in her life. That's why she sometimes has to escape, because she feels way too much for the other people and she sees herself with such self-loathing, that she blames herself for a lot of bullshit that isn't really on her. Anyway, that's my rant! Haven't read Sally Rooney yet, but I did read My Year of Rest and Relaxation last year and yeah, the character was privileged, but also, she had lost both her parents in the span of a few months, and the grief you have when you lose a parent you had a troubled relationship with is sooo complicated, because that person can never give you the thing you crave (acceptance, affection, etc). It literally took me 17 years after my dad died to (very slowly, in stages) allow myself to be angry at him and then just accept that he never liked me/ never got to know me and he probably wouldn't like me now. My mom similarly probably loves me but doesn't like me and she definitely isn't interested in who I am beyond who she imagines I am. These are lifelong explorations of complicated grief that the MC in My Year would have to navigate, while at the same time learning self-love. And the character in the book has never had love modeled for her so she literally doesn't know what it feels like, so how could she feel it for herself or others? Her relationship with her friend (Reva?) was soooo painful to read!

[@xletragedyx]

I don't see why Phoebe Waller-Bridge has to be "the voice of a generation." Fleabag is based on a semi-autobiographical look at her life. It's her personal experience and her personal take. It's funny, it's sad, it's beautiful. It's relatable. Not to all women or people. Knocking her isn't going to help anyone.

[@beejls]

I'm 65. This is hitting home with me. I checked out in my twenties due to a horrid teenagehood. Floated through life, faking confidence while being unsatisfied to depressed, for 30 years.

[@BACKNE]

I am so sorry about that Life can be so casually cruel and leave you helpless but you are not alone ,so many of us don't get the life we thought we would Regret is human, regret is normal

[@ramonalejandrosuare]

Phoebe Waller Bridge is a genius. Period. Fleabag is so far away from "dissociative " I question if the person who labeled it that even saw the show. The entire point of the show was encapsulated by Kristen Scott's guest character's brilliant line that says, "People are shit, but people are all we got." I can't imagine a more insightful and engaged commentary on why we need to continue loving and caring about each other even though it makes us vulnerable to heartbreak.

[@14megasxlr]

Gotta say though, Indiana Jones and Star Wars probably weren’t the type of movies she was suited to do, but a lot of that could be studio interferences.

[@ramonalejandrosuare]

@@14megasxlr Yeah, you can't put that on her. Both franchises were tanked by the studios handling them before she got there.

[@jamescarr1265]

@@14megasxlragreed! but i feel she writes and acts well for comedy and can really write well for action/drama

[@marocat4749]

She might if she got a movie that she can put her identity on. She is in an indiana jones movie, and that makes it hard. Plus dunno if she got a movie with character developement to show her growing she might.@@14megasxlr

[@anth__ony]

To add to this point, fleabag is very aware of her guilt, especially surrounding boo's suicide. I can see why people think she's a character who often dissociates because of her use of 4th wall breaking and her humour, but often she uses her humour (as well as sex) to try and shield herself from her pain. She, as I said, is painfully aware of her pain, and she doesn't know how to live with herself.

[@wholelottafonso]

the reference to worst person in the world is even better because it FEELS written by a man. the main character goes from fully formed in the beginning to basically a manic pixie fantasy in the end. great video!

[@isabellamorris7902]

I loooooooooved Worst Person! Though I can see why the bit right before the finale (trying real hard to tiptoe around spoilers) reads a bit sentimental MPDG, I'm a sentimental wistful person and liked it a lot. It still felt real imo

[@theMoporter]

A useful comparison is The Bell Jar, which ends hopefully but with many of the main character's personal flaws and grievances with society entirely intact.

[@ruplayinggame3080]

That's what put me off The Worst Person, it just really _felt_ written by a man, I just couldn't get over it and connect to the character. In the end, the film kinda became all about the male character and oof.

[@fodor6864]

Oooh I didn't feel like it at all ! And I think it's quite ironic after watching a video that's basically about how reductive and toxic it is to reduce an art piece and a complex character to a trope like "dissociating feminism", you are so prompt to reduce The Worst person In The World to the "manic pixie girl" trope... For me the movie was complex and really moving. The fact that it's written by a man doesn't make it necessarely bad.

[@frankie3718]

It had some of the most relatable scenes in it for me, and if someone had told me it was written / directex by a woman I wouldn't have questioned it. I was completely moved by it, but then I really understood on a personal level the confusion she has over the relationships in her life. I mean, the ending kind of implied she was okay on her own. Not really sure why she was a MPDG... Because she was a photographer? I think multipotentialite. You can feel quite lost when you're restlessly unable to stick with one main career, and I know plenty of women from diverse and challenging backgrounds who feel this way. I really like this filmmaker. And I think the story and characters of the film were complex and refreshing to see. It felt very lived.

[@adambishop328]

"Im concerned that the more we flatten these works and their characters into empty symptoms of a greater cultural sickness, the more we engage in a collective amnesia about what actually happens in these texts and what they are actually all about" 10/10 Loved this wording and sentence. I couldn't agree more.

[@Sindizwe]

The final scene in season 1 of Fleabag made me weep uncontrollably for like 30 minutes... The way it portrays the desperate longing to be known and unburden yourself - and then not be found repulsive. For that reason alone Fleabag will never become irrelevant or dated to me.

[@oftinuvielskin9020]

One thing that did make me uncomfortable about Fleabag first was how she treated her ex - because the scene kind of comes down to her mocking him for not being masculine enough, and I just hate that trope in general, but he ends up easily finding somebody else, married with a baby. So the show does prove her wrong, and show how her treatment of him is more a reflection of her than him, but initially it is so easy to take her commentary straight and think the joke really is supposed to be on him.

[@elizabethsaltmarsh8306]

Yeah, she's generally not that kind to her partners (her ex in particular). To me, it's in character - she's so afraid of being vulnerable with people because of the ways her family has let her down, that she winds up sabotaging most of her sexual relationships and hurting her ex. I think he particularly gets under her skin because he IS able to be vulnerable and genuine with her, and she can't or won't reciprocate. Like yes the show also does use his being a less stoic man for humor, but as you pointed out the second season helps make it clear that it's not fair to laugh at him.

[@hang1iderswing]

I think it's pretty clear we're supposed to interpret this scene as her being wildly inappropriate and then completely unprepared for his emotional reaction. It's consistent with a series of scenes that show her humor and behavior, as a result of her grief, is distancing her from any genuine human connect-- as when she masturbates to obama in front of him and doesn't take the break up seriously. I don't interpret this as anti-feminsit, though-- as you point out, it's making a point about her behavior, not really his. Her ex is a foil to her, he's extremely vulnerable and in his emotions while she is closed off and has to protect herself from emotions with humor at all time. Like at her mother's funeral, when he's so distraught and crying he seeks comfort from her (while being unable to offer comofort back), while she is cold and composed at dealing with grief.

[@dcisrael]

If you subtract out fundamental human drives then anything can happen and anyone can be treated poorly. Money or starting a family is rarely an issue on so many shows dealing with messy sexual relationships - Fleabag, Girls, Friends, Sex and the City, etc.

[@eatmanyzoos]

@@princessofthevioletflame sometimes women need to be bullied for being aggressive toxic jerks? i dont think so. how did you get 300 subscribers with no content? somethings fishy.

[@fodor6864]

You said it yourself : the show explicitly proves her wrong at the end of the first season. If some people judge Fleabag's behavior based on half a season only because they don't watch the show entirely, it's their problem. In general, I'm really tired of people asking shows to be less subtile for EVERYONE to get the message like we're a 5 years old audience. For me, writer-audience's relationship is not unilateral, it goes both ways. Writers put effort in their art to communicate feelings and messages ; and audience needs to put effort to understand and analyze the piece of art they receive - otherwise it's a course at school, not a piece of art. In this case, it was very clear that Fleabag's treatment to her ex is not right since the first scenes because of the irony, and if ever the audience doesn't catch the irony, then the end puts it very clearly. If some people don't understand that showing a behavior on screen doesn't mean that the writer necessarely approves this behavior, if they can't catch irony, if they don't watch the entire story before judging it, well maybe they're missing a lot about every piece of fiction they watch or read because they don't have enough comprehension of how fiction works. It's a sad thing, but it shouldn't be the standar for any writer to write for. We can't ask writers to not count on audience's good will and fiction's intelligence.

[@arielpearson4819]

I think the answer to the last question is two fold. The first is internalized misogyny. We want to champion women but we just can't help ourselves when we see a moment to humble them. When male artists explore different aspects of the human existence in their own style, we call them auteurs but when women do it we criticize them for not being feminist enough. The second is just people who desperately need a "smart" reason to dislike a piece of media. It's immature and a bit insecure. It's really ok to just not like something for no real reason, and wish the Internet knew that.

[@ShesBearynice]

This is a chronically yt take. It’s true that dudes get looked at more favorably than us, but you couldn’t possibly name enough Black Women authors or artists at all that get as much respect as white women, and the fact that you label the critique of your shallow understanding of reality spawned from your privilege is more white supremacy.

[@arielpearson4819]

@@ShesBearynice My "shallow understanding of reality" is informed by my blackness and my womanhood. I didn't want to bring race into this because I thought it was obvious that every black female artist becomes a criticism magnet every time she opens her mouth but I guess some people need everything spelled out for them.

[@Nonya_Busyness]

You’ve warmed me up to Otessa and Sally. I hated their novels originally, because I am fat. I really couldn’t get over the constant body policing their characters go through because when they said they hate themselves, I heard that they DEEPLY hated me. I exist in a body that these characters, and maybe the authors, fear intensely. I get the feeling that if Marianne (and possibly Sally Rooney) woke up in my body that her immediate reaction would be to unalive herself.

[@hfreyschildren1265]

Yeah, same. I know it's a Thing but as a fat person I'm sick of hearing about it. Fat people aren't here to help thin people feel better about themselves

[@Aster_Risk]

If that upsets you, you shouldn't force yourself to read the book. It's important to understand that women of all kinds have different experiences and we should try and respect the expression of that generally. It doesn't mean you have to engage with the media if you really feel it might be harmful. I have had to tell myself this many times.

[@seraph3m]

the fatphobia held by many women that are mentally ill needs to be spoke about, i think.

[@hfreyschildren1265]

@@seraph3m I'm going to point out that if you're not fat you don't have internalized fatphobia, you just have garden variety fatphobia Don't try to make it about thin people's feelings

[@seraph3m]

@@hfreyschildren1265 english isn't my first language i'm sorry if i used it wrong. does internalized only mean if you have the trait?

[@wren7650]

great video! and i think another part of this that comes into play is how (at least i feel) fleabag herself feels like such a "bad feminist" is bc many of her coping mechanisms are typically considered characteristics of toxic masculinity.

[@nomadicreader]

Funny how these critics always point out that "mentally checked out" women in media are white, wealthy, and conventionally attractive, while ignoring and erasing a multitude of female characters/artists that don't fit any of these criteria but display the exact same attitude. Writers like Elif Batuman and Raven Leilani, musicians like Mitski, and creators like Lena Dunham have achieved widespread success representing the same kind of sad "dissociative" (I hate this term, it's so ableist) girls who are poor, fat, and non-white. I feel like by focusing on more "privileged" depictions of women, critics are either exposing their own bias (they just don't consume media made by marginalized creators), or purposefully misrepresenting this archetype to write controversial, clickbait-friendly think pieces. Their criticism also completely ignores the issue of mental illness, and thus comes across as ableist. Dissociation is not a choice, it's a trauma response or a symptom of mental illness. The same can be said for the apathetic, anti-social attitude these female characters adopt: to imply that being mentally ill/neurodivergent is a choice that only privileged women can afford is extremely dangerous and frankly bigoted.

[@CarolinaReyes-cy1zl]

Just wanna say i'm devastated that Rehash podcast is done with the 1st season. I was waiting every week to see if a new ep dropped. Best part of my day the last couple of weeks. Is there any podcasts you recommend to fill the Rehash hole in my heart?

[@originaozz]

As someone who see herself as a feminist from an early age (the kind of 12 years old girl who proclaim that she won't get married & prefer success), I slowly became disillusion. I feel like there's a threshold I've put on myself and judge harshly on what it means to be a "strong woman". It also made me judged other female to a certain degree. Now I realize we're all just human and accept that are things beyond my control, just like any other person or gender. It sucks, but also super freeing to realize that labels are just that. Guess that's why I unknowingly like most of the media of the femcels category😅. Like sometime we suck and it's crucial to realize in order to grow.

[@lonellfletcher]

My condolences. You really got me in the gut when you talked about making more time for your Grandmother and your mother having had a mother for as long as she did. My mother passed a couple of years ago and I experienced both the regrets of things I wished I had made more time for and appreciated before she passed and also the realization of how rare it was to be have had my mom for 30+ years when many around me never had that privilege.

[@hotpinkinthenight]

it's strange how little i focused on the grief in fleabag. now that i've personally experienced grief i feel it's probably time to go back and watch it with an element of better understanding

[@fancyhughes]

I'm so sorry about you losing your grandmother. I too just lost my grandmother (my mom's mother) a couple weeks ago. I've been dealing with feelings of guilt due to not spending more time with her, but also more complicated feelings I had when she was alive. Her health had also been declining, but her death was also unexpected. In a way it makes me appreciate your commentary, particularly about Fleabag so much more. After watching your video, I feel like watching it again (and read My Year of Rest and relaxation).

[@serenity6831]

This was brilliant! I think what I loved most about fleabag were the silent moments w/o commentary (though I loved her asides to the audience as well), like when she gazes toward the pencil after remembering when Boo reminded her people make mistakes. Or when the priest simply smiles sadly at Fleabag after sitting next to her at the bus stop. These little moments really drew me in!

[@natbatrat-d7e]

i absolutely adore this wave of media (fleabag, the worst person in the world, my year of rest and relaxation, lady bird, promising young woman etc) that shows deeply flawed but real women. because that’s what all women are, that’s what all humans are. when i read my year of rest and relaxation, it felt like a really therapeutic experience. i realized i had felt similar feelings to those that were depicted, but i shoved them down because they’re either not nice to other people or “not polite for a girl to have”. both fleabag and my year of rest and relaxation have awakened in me deep emotions that were hidden in the shadows of my brain, that aren’t necessarily pretty, but are part of me and therefore should be recognized. i love that now women are brave enough to portray them in art, and i’m also kind of glad that it bothers other people (especially men). because it should.

[@ghostlightning]

I love this. It had everything. The vulnerable confession at the end caught power in the fist instead of dissipating into weakness.

[@guerillahag]

fuck i never thought of how the worst person in the world never got rinsed like the rest! insane and true! as a fan of both the film and fleabag i WILL die on the hill, as you say, that characters living the social commentary is always better than speaking it

[@ilaydamemis6729]

The critique about their privilage feels like critique on the whole society and not the work itself. When they're telling a story about one person, how can they represent the experience of the whole society? And what does this criticism can bring to the work itself? Can these writers tell the story of a completely differennt person? And would they be able to express it properly? That's why I didn't take those critiques that seriously and kept loving fleabag and normal people!

[@ShesBearynice]

That’s the point. These people shouldn’t be telling stories. These experiences are white experiences, and because whiteness is the standard for humanity under yt supremacy, we all experience shades of this. It’s relatable because it’s theoretically personal but many of the most vulnerable of us simply groan at the notion because, at its core, it’s the white experience. An experience that is devoid of revolution. A revolt hosted from within it is a tantrum, not a rebellion. No one is immune to trauma and abuse. But what would we gain by listening to a yt person pontificate on experiences only possible because of the privilege that exists thanks to the blood sacrifice of everyone else. Yt girls just wanna be the victims.

[@looney1023]

My condolences for your loss! I've also experienced an intense amount of grief over the past few months and everything you said really resonated with me! I watched Fleabag before losing anyone so I imagine after all I've been through, rewatching it would be an entirely different experience; one I might not quite be ready for, but thank you for showing me that lens with which to revisit it!

[@girlnamev]

I cried when you talked about your grandma, my dad passed away recently and for a first time since it happened I didn’t feel so alone in my grief. This video is one of the best video I’ve seen, I feel really thankful that I found your channel ♥️

[@finesite1459]

I wish I could give a thousand likes to this video. You articulate something I just couldn't quite put words to, but was always at the back of my mind about these 3 works of literature and their surrounding criticisms.

[@juj5545]

I lost my grandmother last year too and it hurt me so badly. She lived a good life but also suffered a lot in her last few days with us. I miss her so much. We were so close and I have the desire to call her almost every day. Wishing you so much love and healing ❤

[@theMoporter]

The criticism of so-called "dissociative feminism" is inherently ableist. Not just for the name, but for stigmatising neurodivergence in order to scapegoat both neurodivergent and neurotypical characters. Dissociation is not the same as apathy or a lack of agency. It's when your mind is so fragile that it has to remove your ability to feel authentically. It can result in putting yourself in risky situations because you have no aversion to danger, or feeling like you only just "woke up" and barely remembering what happened for months or years of your life. It can be repeatedly hurting yourself by accident ecause you spent years in chronic pain and your interception is impaired indefinitely. It can mean that when others have high emotional states, you are seen as callous and uncaring for your learned compartmentalisation. Likewise, being pathologically unable to connect with life and believe you will always be worthless or hateable is not privileged self-interest. It's fucking depression. I have been in chronic pain for over half a decade, and the pain I felt as a relatively privileged person with "mild", "functional" depression was worse than that. The bipolar depression that made it impossible to even bathe or feed myself felt about 10%, maybe 15% worse than that. I'd take 5 extra years of physical pain before a single year of depression, and I'm not being hyperbolic. As the OG privileged dissociative white woman, Sylvia Plath, put it in The Bell Jar, "wherever I sat - on the deck of a ship or at a street café in Paris or Bangkok - I would be sitting under the same glass bell jar, stewing in my own sour air". Try experiencing any of that, even if it's "only mild", and acting like that's the same thing as choosing to not care. You know what happens to disprivileged people who are this level of disadvantaged by their mental health? We lose our jobs. We lose our homes. We starve. We are brutalised by both people and institutions. Privilege can play a role in how much you suffer material fallout from your condition, but mental sickness is not the domain of the white or bourgeois or Eurocentric or skinny. It is exceedingly antirevolutionary for them to publically state such bigoted, regressive takes.

[@ShesBearynice]

Babe. You’re literally centering your disability as an antidote to your Eurocentric privilege despite the material reality that you STILL do better than any PoC in your shoes. The reality is that you want to use any in you can to decouple yourself from the crushing responsibility and reality of being a beneficiary of white supremacy. You are disabled beyond help, but the worst part is, the hardest part for you, is that even though you don’t feel it or get anything from it that you feel is good enough, you can’t accept the idea that you STILL aren’t a victim. Stop trying to undo your ytness with oppression. It’s not gonna work.

[@IsomerSoma]

Oh please stop being stupid to frame yourself as allegedly morally superior. Dissociation is a state of mind any of us have experienced. It isn't limited to actual dissociative disorders. So please stop with this bullshit.

[@bognome5374]

100% agree and well put.

[@terrortangent4403]

This comment is very good, and much appreciated. I loathe how ableist leftism often is.

[@emmelinesprig489]

So well said! I would give up all my social privileges to have a loving and supportive extended family.

[@tayloka1]

Wow, completely resonated with this quote “I think I underwent a shift in early adulthood, one that many people experience, where you become less politically idealistic and angry, and a bit more nuanced and maybe even tired.”

[@exxiyya4855]

I'm not white woman nor middle class but why should this be a barrier? I don't like it when people say a book is bad simply because they can't relate for example. I love when I see myself represented even though it doesn't happen often, but us feeling empathy or even trying to understand people through art, shouldn't be limited by our own identity. I love fleabag for it's messiness and willingness to show a part of someones life. I apologize for the grammatical mistakes and my spelling. English is my 4th language.

[@chrissy3875]

i agree and also ur English was amazing : )

[@thebookwormhotel5336]

don't apologise for your spelling of the average English speaker is a sad state you're above average !

[@MrTwentington]

Grief is multilayered and everyone reacts to it differently. Some people cope making jokes out of awkwardness while other people find that distasteful. Recently I lost my aunt, we were close and she passed away relatively young leaving my cousins as orphans and my mum and other aunt devastated to lose a sister. But grief is like a swirl of emotions that sometimes has more of one than another and I’ve learned I need to just let myself feel those things. Sometimes I’m angry about it, that she doesn’t get to see another sunset or Christmas party. Sometimes I am sad for other people like if my mum is upset about her. Other times I’m sad just for me and write poems do drawings listen to sad songs just to exorcise the feeling. And other times it is gratitude too. I’ll smile about her and all the bits of her I do too. But again it’s a many layered complex kind of heartbreak to grieve. So just do what you have to do in that moment

[@Ergoperidot]

How serendipitous, I just started rewatching this yesterday 😁

[@ZornAllein]

What I don't understand is why each and every story has to serve activism. Why can't we just enjoy a good story for what it is?

[@thisisclemfandango]

THANK YOU FOR THIS. so much of the "criticism" directed at fleabag lately has been doing my head in and you perfectly articulate why.

[@Megan-wf2yv]

So so so sorry to hear about your loss- oddly I am in essentially the exact same situation with all of the same feelings, so hearing you talk about your journey with grief hit like a ton of bricks. My grandma passed in December from a years long illness, and I still am not done processing my emotions about it, don’t know if I will ever be, but I am so certain that lucky I was to know and love her.

[@amberly8028]

I hate how much we've moved away from judging art based purely on its aesthetic merits to reducing it to a product of class or political positionion/ideologies. Good art is good because it's good. And that's it.

[@TallyTal7373]

I just wanted to say that I also lost my grandmother last month and I've been dealing with that grief for years (she had alzheimers and her last year, specially the last week of her life, were incredibly difficult). I live abroad also, so being far away magnifies grief and the guilt. Sending a hug from a far. I love your videos and I love engaging with your complex and nuanced thoughts on a Sunday morning with a cup of coffee. You've inspired me to revisit Fleabag with your compelling argument. I've read the play a couple of times (never seen it, sadly) and watched the 1st season, but never loved it enough to carry on. I feel that grief (and 2 years of therapy lol) has inevitably changed me as a person, so I want to revisit Fleabag with that new perspective. Also I can't wait to check out your podcast! I haven't listened to it yet (so I don't know what you're going to say exactly) but I'm looking forward to the Taylor Swift episode. She's such a great example of an exemplary artist who people love to bring down. Of course she's not a perfect human or feminist but is anyone? And she doesn't need to be the person in my life I go to for radical feminist thinking, but she is a beautiful storyteller and that's plenty for me to get from one person.

[@paddyq3235]

It really frustrates me how all of these articles about so called "disociative feminism" assume its a choice. Do you think people who dissociate want to?? Shutting down and allowing your life to fall apart around you and being intentionally self destructive is not fun nor is it a choice.

[@connellneill4169]

you are killing it. these a necessary commentary essays.

[@maudquilici7309]

I think it's very telling of our society to see how these characters' struggles are belittled and seen as being romanticised. Sometimes our gaze romanticises what we see because what we see is actually really depressing, and too sad to look at. So we place women within archetypes. Because it easier than to take a real look at Marianne or Fleabag. Both these characters go through rough experiences and deal with trauma. Both of them in ways that I found touching and also devastating. I don't know how anyone can overlook that and simplify these characters as being privileged sad girls.

[@hawksandsparrows]

I feel like (subconsciously) I've been longing for a video tackling this subject. But somehow you've come about it in such an individual way, with a point-of-view that's throbbingly necessary

[@rem5240]

you literally took the words out of my mouth! you explained it so well, such a good video essay

[@400PlusFilms]

I re-visited this video after watching Fleabag again and your bit about your grandmother’s death really disarmed me. I lost my Baba over 20 years ago but I still feel grief for her, so I appreciate you voicing that better than my thoughts can arrange it. Thanks a lot for your videos.

[@technojunkie123]

Wait this is the first time I’m hearing people call Fleabag a “femcel” - looking up the definition & watching this video I have no clue how people could think that? Fleabag is literally is about how self-love and healthy relationships with others can help you move forward from trauma and your past mistakes.

[@OurWorldAhead]

Yeah, I agree. My initial thought is that they haven't watched the show at all, want to see femcels where there is none or are simply dumb.

[@cucoola8617]

woaah this was the first video of yours that ive watched and i love this essay so much. I am in love with your point of view, all the points you made are so well put and honest, the sources and quotes were amazing and i even had to write some of them down, there were some real eye openers in there oh my god! and i realllly resonated the beautiful, effortless moments where you opened yourself to us. thank you for this greatttt essay !! i send you my condolences, it sounds like a terrible loss, i wish you all the best. the way you let yourself grieve and be human sounds beautiful.

[@snowbvnny3511]

I find it both brave and illuminating that you couch your critique in your personal experiences..and societal context be damned, I wish Fleabag still needed us.. I miss her

[@carolineswn4]

I fking loved this video. You are so talented, and I can see how much hard work and vulnerability you put into these videos. I also just love learning from you; I love this discourse, and I am grateful to have found your channel

[@ellacsarno411]

I don't know how to express the gratitude and warmth this video made me feel. I often feel like I'm completely alone thinking like this. Thank you so much, what an amazing think piece!

[@iggyelle]

Fleabag is among the few series that I find highly relatable. I feel like people have this massive issue with flawed female characters that don't loudly vow to turn a corner and become better people, all while we have these massive hard-ons for the complexity of deeply dysfunctional men/antiheros/hot serial killers. Call it yet another symptom of the patriarchy grooming women into humble homemaking sexbots, but it's a troubling pattern. It also could be a reaction to the way women write themselves. It's so common to consume media with women written by men that seeing one that's very distinctly not gets people all discombobulated.

[@AcolytesOfHorror]

The critical demand for reducing the complexity of a character’s humanity down to a slogan you could slap on a bumper sticker is just so sad. More and more I feel like our most gifted critics are those who grapple with and celebrate contradiction. Otherwise, it’s like looking at a painting with only one color: you CAN do great work under that restriction, but if your whole career is monochrome, you’re probably missing out on a lot

[@margaretlanshe5099]

Toni Morrison is a beautiful example of a Great woman artist.

[@ShesBearynice]

Yup. Kinda fuckin wild that white ppl can say shit like this and call themselves activists.

[@partialcharge6804]

Fantastic essay, thank you so much. Fleabag is a GOAT. One part in particular hit me right where I live. I was until recently, as we say in the community, an egg. And as a large, hairy AMAB, I spend a lot of time feeling... pretty gross and disgusting. It sucks. I shave, I wax, learn about makeup, I look for "cute" clothes. And as I go through all this, I have a constant inner monologue telling me that I'm doing it all wrong. That being a woman is whatever I want it to be. That my partner thinks I'm pretty so it shouldn't matter. Worst of all, that I'm disrespecting other women who can't or don't want to be so "classically femme." That I'm supporting patriarchy and unrealistic beauty standards. ... But god DAMMIT I want to be pretty. I've wanted it my whole life and I've stuffed that feeling so far down, and so hard, that it did serious damage to me. I'm only now learning how to undo that damage, much later in life than a lot of my trans peers. It can leave me feeling alone and a little adrift, having had so many more years of denial. So yeah. Something about the show spoke to me on that level, I think. At least on one level up, in terms of being a "bad ." And how you can learn to accept your own contradictions, and take care of yourself, and love people. And keep going. So shout it from the rooftops, Fleabag is great. We're all a mess, here in the 21st century. But we can keep going. 💖🏳‍⚧💖

[@hlektrapapadopoulou1353]

Fleabag is a masterpiece! Coming from a place where patriarchy is killing women and we can't even call this a "femicide", this subject hits too close to home. I really would've loved it if all of us women identifying as feminists, would spend more time criticizing why we keep on hitting women creators the hardest, as if we ought it to the movement to strip ourselves from any sort of feeling. Also, having lost my grandma as well very recently, in a very unexpected manner, I was left heartbroken, so when you talked about Fleabag's grief, and yours, I felt supported in my grief as well. Thanks for that video Broey.

[@Chuuzus]

mahn Fleabag is a show i wish i could watch again for the first time

[@soupwitch8453]

Not gonna lie, I'm a little out of the loop but I'm shocked to hear those thinkpiece takes. Your analysis is also how I felt watching the show and I thought it was extremely obvious (as well as well done). I'm quite miffed by the confidence of some people in analyzing media so poorly...

[@solangehidalgo4991]

Fantastically written, edited and discussed. Thank youu 😊

[@2eachaccording]

Gaaah This channel has provided so many thoughtful ,well researched takes. "I'm not sure why any of these texts have to be explicitly feminist" and "I personally find it stronger when art made by women tells specific stories rather than trying to qualify for all women's experiences" are two takes I agree with. I find echo's of Belinda's (in the series) statements about how she finds women's awards "infantilizing bollocks" and a "ghettoizing subsection of success". It's a far point that 'The Worst Person in the World' is left out of the conversation (and is directed by a man) we should have flawed female characters (written by flawed female characters) ... people are flawed (inclusive of being "bad feminists") this type of art, of media, is needed for the relatability and fullness of its characters. For nuance and some acknowledgement that people are often messy (and women are people and therefore often messy).

[@emilyreichenberger1607]

19:40 you talk about the loss of your grandmother, I know this was a year ago for you, but I actually lost mine just this last week. I want you to know how much I needed to hear what you said in the little piece, loss is hard. I hope time will heal your wounds.

[@evedillon2016]

'Crisis of identity' really struck a chord with me. I feel like it's a consequence of the landscape today where a lot of women aspire to some sort of 'post-feminist' ideal, which is of course something you can only do from a position of privilege. We've come up with these labels like 'that girl', 'sad girl', 'feral girl'. I think this is because we've been so conditioned by the media produced by men to think that all women must fall neatly into the category of some character trope. We are uncomfortable with inhabiting and expressing an identity outside of these lines so we create a new, ever-expanding lexicon of female characters for us to aspire to.

[@emv8869]

My condolences for the loss of your grandmother. I lost my grandmother almost a year ago and it’s still very difficult. That part of the video really resonated with me

[@swaggygirl3516]

Honestly, ive been waiting on an essay like this for a long time . Although i’m not a fan of year of rest and relaxation, i always thought it was weird how the main character is supposed to represent a greater idea of white woman condition when she is really a person who is experiencing a tremendous amount of grief. Same goes for fleabag. I lost my mom when i was in high school and I loved how fleabag portrayed how it can mess you up, make you feel like a terrible person. Fleabag is not a flag for white brits or twentieth century feminist, she is a broken person who’s so alienated by her environment that she ends up living half a life. Grief is awful, It’s a horrible process that goes hand in hand with shame and guilt and i had never before seen such an honest portrayal of it.

[@ProfessorFlowers]

Fleabag is one of my all time favorite shows. I feel like it shows a human experience that I've not quite seen on TV before. I was really surprised to be talking with someone, and to find out that all he saw in Fleabag was a selfish bratty woman. I can't help but feel like there's a bit of misogyny in there. Fleabag has so much nuance as a person. As you pointed out, she's actually very caring towards her family. And while Fleabag struggles with vulnerability, the show absolutely invites the viewer in to be vulnerable, and to laugh and to cry. There's a lot going on that I find some people to overlook. And yet there's characters like Walter White from "Breaking Bad", who are written to be unlikeable and sociopathic, and yet men completely miss the intention behind how his character was written, and still find someone like Walter to be relatable and good, while all they can see in a character like Fleabag is to be bratty, selfish, and unrelatable. I'm glad there's a video out here going over how she is sometimes a misunderstood character.

[@liviaramos365]

also clarice lispector and sylvia plath in literature I love Clarice's writing and there's so many points where I relate and feel represented, but I couldn't really explain why and now I think this video and what you said applies perfectly to that

[@lrnmd]

amazing video!! i was geniunely tired of commentary videos that was filmed just to be filmed without adding anything new to the argument and just echoing the most popular opionion. your video was like a breath of fresh air to me!!!

[@gustavoa.belfiore4701]

Personally I think all the discourse around "privilege" eventually reifies and naturalises the material conditions that create and perpetuate various injustices (misogyny, racism, classism, LGBTphobia, etc), we should be able to connect with the humanity of people from different backgrounds, feel the human condition in those stories. I think Fleabag resonated with so many different people in different parts of the world because it's just so painfully human, it's beautiful to watch.