Broken Arrow vs WARNO - Which Is Better? A Valentines Day Special

[@radicalbutt4467]

All imma say is RTS players are eating good this year

[@Bandanner]

Mmmm nom nom nom

[@LithuanianBear]

fr fr. Real Time Bussin. Grew up with this genre, glad to see it still kicking and growing.

[@jean-paultheron8415]

Both are better ❤

[@90demo90]

I'm more inclined for warno, but man, the "1 transport for a few units" or the air deployiment, by chopp or paradropping is a rly GOOD mechanic! I wish warno had it

[@Bandanner]

Weirdly Eugen did hint at paradrops early on but it never happened and then we got Forward Deployment... so not sure what the plan actually was, perhaps it was just FD all along.

[@rugerdie4054]

The thing that I wish Warno could do with its transport is develop a system where I can Tell the troops to move in a certain direction from their drop location so I don't have to micro. This would make it a lot easier to drop troops at the edge of a city and have them move into occupy the first few blocks while I am microwing tank screening heli forces or shifting artillery

[@johnelliott7850]

@@rugerdie4054 Or slow down the game speed/pause and give orders.

[@chera3777]

I love Warno singleplayer. It makes me feel like some armchair general without too much stress. I love zooming in and watching the effects and units fighting it out.

[@LithuanianBear]

Both games interesting and fun in their own way . Lets just actually take a step back and rejoice that RTS genre is actually still kicking!! support both developers.

[@St4hlbrecher]

After playing BA I always realise how good Warno actually plays, BA is fun but i really don’t like the missing Feedback and readability regarding orders and los

[@GeneraI_Motors]

BA really needs an "in combat" UI element and an audio cue, as well as a path indicating how a unit intends to travel from where it is, to where you sent it.

[@St4hlbrecher]

@@GeneraI_Motors especially with arty being very deadly to tanks i feel i have to watch my tanks all time to prevent them from dying to an arty barrage

[@rugerdie4054]

Hot take: Having not played broken arrow but just observing the gameplay it feels a lot like world in conflict with larger battlefields and extreme customization.

[@makeshiftgamer6909]

As you said in the style of deck building in broken arrow and customization. The fact you can have the same specialization as someone else but have totally different styles of how to utilize your specialization is what sold me for broken arrow, not to mention how it’s set in the modern day with stealth aircraft, APS for tanks and etc. warno just can’t match in that and only thing I enjoy from warno is the Army General campaigns.

[@resonance314]

I think the graphical effects, like fire, explosions, tracers and destroyed units are better in WARNO, sound effects might be a little bit better in broken arrow. I enjoy the real rates of fire in BA particularly but i dislike the relatively slow speeds of aircraft in BA, while not 1:1 realistic in WARNO they feel over all faster in it. I am most worried about the unity game engine, i hope it can be optimized more but all unity games i have played are always filled with jank. The scale of the games in BA are also much smaller, like tactical games in WARNO or SD but even less, i never much liked those i enjoy the 10vs10 spectacle. BA has a lot of nice game mechanics, like APS, artillery fire missions, being able to alter the altitude of aircraft, top attack weapons and i like it that it has more strategic weapons implemented like cruise missiles, missile interception, cluster tube artillery and strategic bombers but i feel like the small amount of units per player ingame harms this somewhat, the supply system in BA is much better and i like it that units respawn even if you can never afford to have your whole battlegroup or even half of it on map at the same time, and i like the physical simulation of projectiles in BA much better. I still want to see implementation of gas, phosphor and mines in such a game, as this was done already in world in conflict and C&C generals. I also enjoy the total lack of chat moderation in eugen titles, you can always not use the chat. Ultimately both games need a ton of work and a lot more content and i will play both as the two games are still quite different from each other. It is up to both respective developers to manage and develop their titles though regrettably Eugen is not known for overachieving.

[@Bandanner]

A very reasonable set of thoughts :) Other than my concern over your chat comments, be warned Eugen are now moderating chat and actively banning for things that breach their TOS (They always did mind you even in Wargame but just less frequently).

[@schibleh531]

I hate how Warno overcomplicates things at times. For example: - if you want to smoke an area for an attack, you: A) unmount, create a wall with your teams, wait for them to finish, mount up and move them to avoid counter battery. It's so much work just for something as simple smoke. Regiments, on the other hand, has a handy dandy smoke artillery button that you can call instantly. - Infantry is broken down into a million specialized units. You got 2 man atgm teams, 2 man AA teams, AT infantry, Assault infantry, etc. Some of them have high strength, some of them have low strength. Playing them feels like a chore sometimes. - You can never tell if your units are exposed or concealed unless you use that vision tool (map visuals are misleading, basically). Some treelines block LoS while others are practically invisible. You park your supply unit in a residential area and it gets sniped through the tiniest of gaps between houses. - RNG can sometimes ruin good operations, which just sucks in the game. If warno was a shooter it would require you click 5 different buttons just to fire a single bullet. I still enjoy warno, mind you. These are just my gripes with the game.

[@Xenomorphine]

I really dislike the whole 'building a deck in advance' thing which has leaked into so many new RTS games. It feels so artificial/forced.

[@Bandanner]

I can understand that not being to everyones tastes, there are still plenty of RTS games due out which don't have that, though none of them are quite like these two. You could try Regiments if you have not already its single player only but you kinda get a preset deck with a couple of choices as you start the games.

[@megakillowning]

I've played a couple of matches in BA, and honestly, WARNO for me has a better and polished gameplay. Unit customization to me doesnt really matter, because whether that feature exist or not, there will always be a meta.

[@Bandanner]

Perfectly reasonable, everyone has a preference :)

[@Noobcast_Pwncast]

Just let them enjoy it for fucks sakes! :D

[@annestyk]

am i the only one who doesn't like seeing cruise missiles on the same map as tanks and infantry? i can't stand the idea of cruise missile launching planes flying to within 2 kilometres of the targets before releasing them. literally, it makes me cringe. i love the targetting and strafing orders menu for BA. they do a lot right. one other thing though, i don't like the tanks respawning, if i struggle to take out a t14, and finally get it down, i don't relish the idea that i will have to re-fight that battle in 2 minutes time. thats entirely a personal preference i imagine.

[@Bandanner]

It's a video game that's not aiming for realism, I quite like the missiles, its a cool feature that you can shoot them down too. But I get why realism lovers would not like it. As for units respawning, it takes a lot longer than 2 minutes for them to come back, I quite like it has a mechanic its not quite as punishing as WARNO for example and people can just enjoy playing. Without spending every second in a panic they might lose a tank.

[@annestyk]

@@Bandanner firstly, good video dude! i'm a fan. ^_^ but secondly; if you're not striving for realism, then why slavishly recreate so many perfectly rendered real vehicles? if a game takes great pains to make a vehicle look just like the real thing, and then give it very odd mechanics, it causes cognitive dissonance. thats what i meant by cringe, not that it isn't very cool looking, just that it gives me that uncanny valley feeling. and again, very good video, i'm a fan bud!

[@Bandanner]

@@annestyk Ah I guess because it looks cool! I get what you mean don't worry. :)

[@sd_league]

Great comparision. Also good calling out of some of eugens biggest weaknesses. :) Not a big BA fan but its great to have competition! :)

[@callaway86]

People play games like this for the complexity, so an easy start is not really their jam. It's a good point about meta decks and it feels Wargame was able to really tackle this as there are limitless decks.

[@Bandanner]

I agree I think some people play for complexity but I do believe that a game can be complex/deep and the intro to the game be more forgiving/approachable than how Eugen's games tend to be. In my mind that can only benefit us all in the long run as it brings in more people.

[@N3xusStrike]

they both have so much potential, but warno in graphics is (in 90% of cases) better and also accuracy of divisions is kinda interesting, pretty sad that broken arrow is bad optimized and sometimes harder to hold the entire map secured ( in warno too but warno has smoller maps too)

[@firstspar]

🤣 instant click on this video. great topic. am expecting WARNO way better 👍

[@mrV69]

Broken arrow is so much better.

[@johnelliott7850]

Good comment about not having to tell someone else why their game is shit. So much of that coming from Gates Of Hell and Assault Squad 2 players, toward a certain 'new kid on the block'. I bought Warno a few days ago. I see many long hours' learning ahead.

[@-Markus-]

Im a Regiments guy myself 😆 But with no multiplayer I guess it doesnt qualify.

[@Bandanner]

Regiments is non the less a quality game!

[@-Markus-]

@@Bandanner Agreed!

[@CyanTeamProductions]

Regiments is pretty good, but when it comes to urban, or I guess more so suburban fighting, watching all the units just clip through buildings and not being able to maneuver infantry and transports separately feels off. That said, I like regiments a lot.

[@NatsSt]

Definitely a better game, and they are adding in helidrops soon. If it got some urban maps it would be even better.

[@DeekerActual]

BA just looks like it was released 10 years ago graphically. Unity just not up to scratch. Shadows especially.

[@DezNutzBich]

Just the vid I'm looking for. Debating to jump on Warno or wait for BA.

[@BeatRoot14]

There so many RTS games again. Between this, warno, sd2, regiments, gates of hell and the age of empires 2 revival its great to see.

[@Bandanner]

Yeah we are really heading into a resurgence of RTS games, its fantastic to see.

[@ashmarten2884]

Personally I’m more of a fan of Broken Arrow, at leasy multiplayer wise, so far because I have a skill issue microing a million units. But I haven’t tried out the warno single player mode yet, because I’ve been playing Broken Arrow while I can

[@Bandanner]

Yeah I think a lot of us have been playing more BA while its still available :)

[@25grana]

Warno all day

[@ryanperrault8174]

I liked the demo a lot. Didn't play online, just against the Ai in that mission but it was a lot of fun and much easier to jump into than Wargame ALB or WG:RD...I haven't played WARNO yet but probably buying it tomorrow as it's on sale right now.

[@Bandanner]

WARNO at least has a few tutorials etc so hopefully a little easier than Wargame but it should feel "similar" to the wargame series.

[@officer_miller]

question: has it been CONFIRMED that we will not be able to mod the game?

[@Bandanner]

So its been a lot of mixed messages, originally they said 100% mod support (Because the team behind the game were modders originally). THEN in an interview (I forget where) last year they said it was no longer planned due to various concerns - I suspect some Slitherine influence there? The latest news from lilbadwitch (a mod) on discord is "Mod support itself is still a "we'll see when we get there" type of topic. They're pro-mod, but it's something to figure out when the time comes. Launch takes priority." (But it varies from mod to mod what they say) I will say no longer expect explicit mod support in terms of tools provided by them from the comments being made. In very early videos of the game there was a "Mod Management" section on the menu but that's since been removed. Its Unity so people can probably find a way to mod it regardless, it might just be they don't give "official" tools to do it. And games don't always HAVE to give official tools.

[@sometimesposting6779]

Broken Arrow feels so much more "arcade-y" than Warno, which itself feels like it has much more nuance.

[@dudeguybro]

If Broken Arrow wants to succeed, they need to work on their game engine. It currently runs horrifically, and I have top of the line hardware. Eugen's Warno looks significantly more polished (probably to be expected) and runs a lot better. Warno may not have the PR team, but it's a better game, imo. If Eugen adjusted the UI to use symbols akin to Broken Arrow, that would help a lot. For example, the UI element for infantry in Warno is a soldier crouching with their name above. Most of the names are difficult to remember. BA uses dedicated, unique icons for each type of infantry unit. This is EXTREMELY helpful in remembering what kind of unit is which. I applaud the BA devs for this as it really helps to put correct units across the battlefield.

[@supersolleks5518]

Great review, loved the video! Does anyone know if WARNO will have a sale soon? The game looks enjoyable, but I would love to be able to get it for a nice sale

[@Bandanner]

WARNO is still in early access, it been 25% off a few times. However it will release out of early Access on the 23rd on May, I don't suspect we will get a sale at that time.

[@doc7000]

WARNO is in early access and broken arrow had a multiplayer play test, while WARNO probably won't change much between now and full launch Broken Arrow has plenty of time to change a bit more.

[@ketamu5946]

The hours I spend with friends putting together armies matching eachothers and war plans for maps... If we get deckbuilder with capability for more frankenstein Monsters, adding our own stencils to the vehicles and even switch to different cammo... oh dear god... I will have 2000hr+ in deck builder only.

[@Bandanner]

Haha I think we all spend a crazy amount of time in the deck builders of these types of games :)

[@bellicapelli8155]

Now i'm more leaning towards warno, as i play SP only and i don't really care about META/tryharding, but i'll sure as hell play broken arrow as well.

[@ian2372]

Never played warno and RTS pvp was dead to me, save the odd age of empires 1 or 2 game I'd join when drunk. Broken arrow has found the perfect balance for me and scratches that world in conflict itch I had. Easy to learn, hard to master. I just wish the terrain deformed like company of heroes or world in conflict but other than that, the game has been super engaging and fun.

[@kino6395]

100% agree with you, i love the style of game but Warno has just been pitfall after pitfall recently. As soon as the game looks to be making progress in its balance and multiplayer the goalposts move making all that previous work pointless. This tank rework and house cleaning is just the biggest example. Every major patch something big changes sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way but i feel always released broken. The game is always gonna be like this as long as Eugen insists on historical accuracy first, some discord historian will find some niche document from 1982 that will force a unit to be changed completely ruining every division that uses that units, unit spread and thus balance.

[@Bandanner]

Speaking of discord historians I tried very hard to prove the UK should get the Starstreak missile, but not sure I won that one. Myself with the help of Tali managed to find evidence it was fully functional before 1989, the UK was just late adopting it. UK Suffers or some such? :P

[@kino6395]

@@Bandanner I'd also put forward that it's also Eugens inconsistent implementation of historical evidence when it's provided. With different goalposts for evidence for different countries. The UK suffers meme is 100% derided by the fact Eugen requires the same amount of documented evidence for units as the US. Dispute the size, money and doctrine differences of these nations. While other nations require just a footnote or antidotal evidence to get access to units. This is probably just a perfect storm for the UK, NATO nations archives are easier to access giving a "standard" for NATO within Eugen. While France has the advantage of sharing a language and country with the Devs, along with a huge amount of modernization in the 2000s making the information less protected. The US military is just so big and well documented that information is easy to find. While Germany and UK has none of those advantages. Meaning both suffer, the UK just gets unlucky as it shares a language with the US meaning there's probably a subconscious expectation to be like the US's documentation meaning more scrutiny. Meanwhile my dad says so is enough to get a change to Pact as the information is hard to find translated to English let alone french.

[@dfmrcv862]

So... I'm not much of a gamer. I play a few games here and there and I have preferred strategy games. Bought World in Conflict a couple of years ago and had fun with it, but it was, as you said, "dated". Think I've said as much on the Broken Arrow discord, but while the game is fun, you can feel a bit helpless at times, like if you're playing domination, someone who's saved up points for nukes or heavy bombers could erase all your progress and there's nothing you can do about it because you can't shoot those down. Plus, the available units are all pretty much the same. There are some basic differences in artillery, but an Abrams is no different gameplay wise than a T-80. So, what got my attention for Broken Arrow is that it's trying to be a modern real time strategy game that *does* take differences and customization into account. There are a variety of Abrams to choose from and equip with different upgrades if you so wish, and that makes the way you use them much more varied than what World in Conflict already had. You get to select your units, what to load them up with, and choose how you want to approach things. In the open beta, one aspect that made the game *very* fun for me was that whenever a Russian player brought in their heavy bomber, you had multiple ways to counter it. If you had been careful and placed proper air defense, the bomber could be taken out before it dropped its payload. If the bomber had cruise missiles, you'd probably need a fighter to engage it before it opened up with them. Or you could be me and get your whole push obliterated in your second game because you weren't careful and pushed four Abrams and Four Bradleys out of cover at the worst possible moment. Lol. But of course, that's the beta, and the full game appears even more promising even if it's not out yet... But I ask myself why not get into Warno or the Wargame series? At first it's because I'm saving money for Broken Arrow, but something else also just... doesn't click with me and Warno. The music is great, the graphics are great, but I look at the gameplay and... I say this as someone who loves realism in fiction and games, but something about how Warno handles it feels... off to me. Maybe it's the complexity? Again, I haven't tried it, but I noticed how restrained players tend to be in terms of strategy as noted in this video. I think both factions are actively *missing* equipment like longer-range air defense or heavier bombers that also restrict how games go, whereas in Broken Arrow you get more options it seems to me.

[@Bandanner]

WARNO and Broken Arrow are two different styles of games with some overlap of course! but you certainly do not have to like both. If WARNO is not your thing its not your thing. Thank you for the long and thoughtful comment by the way.

[@dfmrcv862]

@@Bandanner thanks for the heart. And yeah, it is a likes thing at the end. Maybe when Broken Arrow's full release happens there can be more direct comparisons? But yeah, we'll see.

[@jeventy26]

BA for me

[@jaw0449]

Broken Arrow *seems* hands down the best

[@Ryan-ji1lz]

I like both games just wish Warno would let me choose transports during the game so I'm not stuck with 9 squads in helicopters but instead could adapt during battle

[@VorborBoban]

The information at the 13:50 minute mark regarding the map editor in broken arrow is incorrect, on the steam page you can see a description of the scenario editor: "The scenario editor used to create the missions of the campaign will be available to the community to create their own scenarios and share them on Steam workshop. It includes a visual scripting tool allowing you to create complete scenarios with cut scenes and dialogue without ever writing a single line of code."

[@Bandanner]

I'm not sure what you mean? That's what I said it was (I just didn't read it word for word off the steam page). (Hence Opflash/Arma editor its based off a quote from FLX btw) The exact moment you linked? when I talk about game modes for multiplayer was discussed in an interview, this information is not included on the Steam Page.

[@VorborBoban]

@@Bandanner I for one found it confusing as it was in the "Editor" section of the video and I double-checked the steam page because I remember seeing something about an editor, now that you emphasized that it's multiplayer maps it does make more sense

[@mercster]

How are people already playing Broken Arrow? I thought it wasn't released yet? Are there testers or...?

[@Bandanner]

There was a beta test at the end of last year which was public. Any games etc you see are ones from that time, though people still post old ones (I have a few recorded ones in my folder for example). There are still internal testers for the game afaik however it's no longer public and they can't share that footage etc.

[@mercster]

@@Bandanner Ahh gotcha, cheers.

[@mgriffioen8503]

love the thumpnail

[@Bandanner]

Had to make it something special for valentines ;)

[@strangeperson700]

Can Chat GPT play Wargames? :( I want a single player multiplayer experience lol.

[@Bandanner]

Haha, sooner or later an AI like Chat GPT will be able to play I am sure. I mean its just like advanced chess right?

[@strangeperson700]

@@Bandanner Yes, that would be awesome, and we can program it to type like typical wargame gamers in chat too. We can get it to spectate games and learn how to play like real humans, hesitation and all.

[@Bandanner]

@@strangeperson700 well maybe not chat like typical Wargame chat 🤣

[@strangeperson700]

@@Bandanner hehehe :3

[@rafinery576]

You could have mentioned Broken Arrow is made in Unity right away. I guess the video would've been 45 seconds though...

[@johnnypemail]

WARNO by far wins

[@im_misfar940]

You're delusional

[@im_misfar940]

And biased

[@strategiev2.0a64]

I hate scale of Warno... it is just weird and i cant play it because of it ! Steel divisin 2 looks more real in terms of distance ! In warno, 2km looks much too close of your unit...

[@Bandanner]

Yeah this is one issue I have always had with WARNO, the change in scale from Wargame/SD2 is rather odd. It doesn't bother me really now when I play but it is always there in the back if my mind.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

Comparing a early access with a server stress test beta is like comparing a half furnished penthouse with the foundation of a flat.

[@Bandanner]

How rare a visit from a big KZbinr! ;) I mean lets be fair Saucy, both games have been in development for a similar amount of time and both are aiming for release in the first half of this year. Unless you know some secrets I don't? Did you even watch the video? To see what I compared or how I talked about it? It's just your comment suggests not!

[@Dr_Puppeh]

Shouldn't you be stealing screenshots for thumbnails from community discords?

[@notbotheredable]

If I like both games does that make me poly-armourus?

[@Bandanner]

I mean if you want to start attaching labels? :P I leave that to you though ;)

[@valtsur08]

Ohh spicy drama

[@NatsSt]

Regiments is better than both of them. Doesn't have deck building or multiplayer, and it's a much better game for it, if you enjoy more realistic wargames. Eugen's games I find are just frantic clicking games - ie you don't have time to enjoy anymore than constantly moving troops around from high up. Regiments has much more depth in it than that.

[@matteogirelli1023]

I loved ruse and I'm so disappointed by the gameplay of wargame in comparison

[@RazzmannWG]

Wargame of course....

[@Bandanner]

I mean, its not really fair to include that in any comparison it wins all right?

[@Kesen2003]

Wargame for sure

[@Bandanner]

@@shitdemon487 I would not be surprised to see some kinda WGRD mod.

[@redjacc7581]

poor=pool :P

[@redjacc7581]

The unit customisation is a major difference which does mean you have a much bigger poor to choose from for deck variety.

[@alvaro5610]

Warno better

[@sdeddff]

My problem with WARNO is just a Wargame Red Dragon reskin. Same unit, same timeline, same mechanics.

[@Bandanner]

The funny thing is, WRD players will rage at you for the accusation haha

[@Kesen2003]

WARNO is not a reskin. It has the shitty divisions in it. Wargame is much better.

[@Bandanner]

@@Kesen2003 you see! polite rage at least lol ;)

[@ArrigoSacchi87]

This isn't true on any level beyond aesthetics

[@marv9519]

once you play broken arrow..its hard to go back and play warno.. hit uninstall!

[@Bandanner]

No! You only have to uninstall WARNO if I some how beat you in a 1v1 that's the rule!

[@Kesen2003]

I prefer wargame over warno. And now broken arrow takes the cake for me

[@Conman51US]

BA Better

[@redjacc7581]

single player is ok, but these 2 games will live or die in the multiplayer.

[@cadet3902]

Only around 20% of buyers stay for multi, around 80% actually play against AI or campaigns but both games have scenarios, promised scenario editors, campaigns (with Warno having AG) although we're yet to see how good BA AI is to fight against but WARNO AI is quite easy once you understand how they work.

[@Bandanner]

Cadet is correct as I mentioned in the video, the vast majority around 80% of players in RTS/RTT are Single player only, its actually the Editors that will make a difference for long life and also expansions with additional singleplayer content. Multiplayer is like 20% and competitive aka 1v1 ranked in WARNO is an even smaller portion of that.

[@Kesen2003]

I find it interesting that such a small portion play multiplayer… because I literally only play multiplayer. And I’m not even super competitive with it. I just like playing dynamic games. And players offer that the best.

[@Bandanner]

@@Kesen2003 yeah I always knew SP was a bigger crowd but the shear difference in numbers was a surprise when I found out.

[@Spukow]

The Problem about Warno is it feels as if it is not a real successer from WGRD, also the Warno Method of listening for units should be also completley reworked, PLUS Warno is in EA since 2 flipping years, plus lobby waiting simulator! That Broken Arrow in its beta feels better in some areas and it feels fresh also, you can get fast into games without having to wait hours!

[@Bandanner]

The echolocation thing is very weird... it started in SD2 not sure why its still there in WARNO. I just pretend its a feature now. (Insert unsure face here)

[@Spukow]

I don´t mean to bash on Warno but it is wierd for an "experienced" dev studio like Eugene to slip up like they do, and it pains me because Warno could be so much more if they manage to deliver on theyr promises.@@Bandanner

[@ArrigoSacchi87]

It's always easy to get into games when something is both free and new. The test will be in a year

[@christopherbramkamp9661]

Broken Arrow a lot better. Eugen destroy with bad updates his Warno. i delete Warno and wait on Beta or release of Broken Arrow.

[@mickhund3898]

I'm done with warno