Why Is Mental Bandwidth Disrespected? | Broken by Concept 215 League of Legends Podcast

[@griffen1k]

Mental stack is a HUGELY underrated part of the league. I always assumed that the climb would be mostly mechanical problems. Maybe that's due to my fighting game background, but on my journey, what got me to diamond was not polishing my mechanics it was improving my information processing. What's happening on the map? Who is my win con? What is the next objective? And should we contest it? These were the things that truly made a difference in my games, not my ability to execute a perfect Shurima Shuffle

[@joshwisdom6715]

I started on league and got into fighting games about two years ago and my growth in the genre made me so much better at improving in league

[@ummerkasana]

Ding ding ding :) This is what got me to diamond for the first time. There was a time where i was 23-5 in low Emerald. It was such a huge click when I realized 95%+ of players are just playing street fighter on summoners rift.

[@JamesBaleLA]

Something about the first 20 minutes of this discussion just reminds me so much of my journey with guitar and music - specifically related to improvisation. You start off trying to learn by feeling and just trying things out - learning written songs and standards that have been established. Then you begin to learn the rules and apply structure to your playing - you learn the scales, modes, chords, and how progressions typically flow together (think fundamentals). Then finally you get to a point where all of those fundamental things are so core to what you're doing that you can start to express yourself outside of these conventions. Essentially, you understand the "rules" to such a degree that you begin to understand where breaking the rules is not only possible but can actually elevate your improvisation to a whole new level. I'll leave you with a Charlie Parker quote: "Learn everything, then forget it all."

[@666Kaca]

Usually people start with chords and scales, i started by learning written songs like you state and people in my guitar school found it extremely weird and "unorthodox". I could play a couple of iron maiden songs before i learned my first chord

[@micahgiavaras4783]

Just found the podcast. Absolutely great to listen to during work. I love your conversations and the way y’all feel the game. The action it took for me to get ranked motivated again was finding this podcast. Thank you coaches and viewers for sharing your stories

[@Flash_Akali]

I love the topic of mental bandwidth because on my one-trick champ, I can play the 1v1 aspect of League very easily while still thinking about the whole 5v5. But when you switch champions, you're back to using all your bandwidth just to get through the 1v1. Without that OTP experience, it would be easy to assume you played well and deserved a win, when in reality there's so much more to it than just the isolated 1v1.

[@jalalal8056]

False. You don't need to be a one trick pony to be able to think holistically about the game, or, at least, be able to focus on a few other things rather than all your attention focused on controlling your champion. You just need to play that champion regularly.

[@Steinar447]

@@jalalal8056 I mean he didn't say you needed to be an OTP, just that for him the mental capacity between being on his OTP was vastly different than when playing another champ.

[@mihai-soringhergu2647]

I can relate to that sooo much. It's crazy how much learning a champion mechanically changes the way you view the game

[@GubbiGap]

So I'm the 12k DPI Gold player (I just changed it to 1600 a bit over a week ago). To give you some context on the DPI stuff I literally got myself a mouse and my friend who helped me buy it played on 16k DPI so he recommended to just get a mouse with a wide dpi range and just kinda mess around and find my comfort zone on it and I felt comfortable on 12k. I did everything on 12k - shooters, League, google, word documents, anything on my PC. I also had it on 75 out of 100 in the League settings. It didn't really have anything to do with him playing with high DPI or me thinking high DPI = high elo because he was Plat and I was Silver/Gold. It was purely out of comfort - it felt normal and since I didn't really talk to people about it outside of a conversation in MLA I didn't know it wasn't normal. The only person I knew the DPI of is my friend (16k guy) who btw just hit Diamond on Fiora top! Anyway we spoke about it in MLA and then I asked a mentor who's seen a lot of my gameplay about his DPI and he said he plays on 1100. It seems like I was a weird one so I changed it to 1600 because it was the closest to 1100 in my pre-set mouse settings. Also yes Curtis about 1 to 2cm^2 would be the amount I moved my mouse physically. Edited to add that I found out today that my friend changed his DPI to 3700 and uses mouse acceleration and increased settings in League atm. He estimates his League DPI to around 5k.

[@HanyuuHOLO]

There are a lot of layers to mouse sensitivity and talking only about DPI doesn't tell anything at all, so I'm glad at least you added your in-game sens here. That said, 12k dpi + 75 in-game is crazy high. I don't think it's possible to put links in KZbin without the comment disappearing, but look up "longest list of pro players mouse settings reddit" on Google and the 1st result is a post that serves as a good guideline on what's "common". Resolution also comes into play but that's another story.

[@osten432]

Its crazy how much reviewing helps, thank you for getting me to do it!

[@Lefaid]

I feel this so much. I realize part of the reason I am garbage at team fights is that I get overwhelmed in those fights. I am only decent with champs that passively do things in the fight, like Amumu.

[@austinzobel4613]

Its like u have to zoom back your mental stack... to the stack of observable facts that are relevant... Knowing all opportunities and feeling the best one out. I shut out everything and kind of space out... like relaxing your gaze... but not just visually but contextually

[@JamesBaleLA]

Yall should watch King Nidhogg play - his DPI is insanely low and he moves his whole arm to move his mouse but his mechanics are incredibly clean. He also uses a WASD setup to move his camera around. Pretty unique on the whole but it really seems to work for him and he's been challenger for a really long time. I think there was even some drama around a video he made and he ended up talking with Nemisis for a really long time about the entire thing.

[@zingthegnar]

I used to play around 9000-14000 DPI a long time ago, when I was starting to take osu seriously. My DPI was already high (3000-6000?), and I struggled with mouse grip a lot, and the feeling of my pinky sliding on my mousepad made me uncomfortable, so I maxed out my DPI. The way it works is I "anchor" my palm, thumb, and pinky on the mousepad, and slightly "rolling" my thumb and pinky side to side. I wouldnt call it "good", but with a tight anchor like that, you get a surprising amount of stability and control on a ridiculous DPI.

[@nicksmith516]

Although a bit rambly, that last mailbag story was amazing to hear. It's cool to be able to relate to other people who have had League impact them as much as it has impacted me. Long time veteran of the game, and it has been a roller coaster of emotions and character building. I was once in the same state, going through college playing the game, being highest rank among my friend group and that created a terrible ego. My confidence was tied to my external achievements, and League brought that demon to light in very ugly ways. I had a really negative relationship with the game for a while until I grinded at the BBC principles for a year+ in Saltu. This game has done so much for me, negative and positive, but here I am as a "retired ranked player" with some awesome relationships I formed through the game not only with my fiance' and a few friends, but with myself as well. I wouldn't have really understood how low my confidence and love for myself was without this game, and I may never have taken the time to change that if it wasn't for my competitive drive and love for the game. Thanks Nathan for the amazing coaching sessions and Rek'Sai learnings, and thanks Curtis for continuing to do these episodes. It really is more than just a game, I don't care what anyone says.

[@samisuhonen9815]

I'm also from a relatively high level of WoW PvP background. The concept of a mental bandwith is definitely huge in WoW PvP with the sheer amount of information you have to process, and buttons you have to press.

[@Sanspepins]

I got into high dpi from having a small desk space. Vibe between 4k and 8k depending on the mood. Usually just sit at 6k

[@anniekujo]

Always great to start the week with a bbc episode, love the content guys

[@callumlee9367]

curtis.. man this guy is looking huge

[@NokeNoke15]

Hairline going away as well. Sus

[@princesr]

@@NokeNoke15they are pushing 30 tho

[@Steinar447]

@@NokeNoke15 I mean the dude's been hitting the gym consistently for a long time, they speak abt it regularly in their podcast :D Might just be banter, but so many ppl think any progress in the gym = roids and it baffles me.

[@NokeNoke15]

@@princesr it's about the speed on which is happening out of nowhere

[@NokeNoke15]

@@Steinar447 from what I have gathered it's not been that long, or if so not consistently, hence my comment of hair line going in fast as well out of nowhere. Not implying anything, might just be an angle or shirt thing. Look at my profile pick, thats wnbf stage.

[@SashaClueless]

That last email was some CINEMA

[@Cj-cv4wb]

Pink bean, blade of awe. Some mario party in there. We all have some similar starts!

[@reesei3565]

ppmd vs armada apex 2015 is a banger set

[@pcs322]

stack it up

[@derekfeitosa9125]

Awesome episode, thank you for taking the time to read my email!

[@glonkTv]

Im ending this split a lower rank than I was when I started 9 years ago, my learning disability makes it impossible to improve so I just started playing for fun

[@nandoborchardt4327]

Sorry to hear mate. Also don't discard the fact that the game is so much harder now. I used to be diamond fairly easily and now I have to play a lot more sophisticated only to get out of low emerald. Don't stress mate

[@slimshaneyy]

You're not the only one, getting dropped 5 tiers with 4 months to get it back vs the same people who got dropped was insane.

[@IceWraith101]

ah yes. Everyone has a learning disability these days. Not that they just dont exercise their brain. Hilarious.

[@Flash_Akali]

you guys mentioned the player with 12k dpi and i would have loved to hear more about your thoughts and experience about set-up optimization (up to obssession), with people like dopa who tape and measure it down to the exact cm, once you find a comfy setup that allows to perform, you can immerse so much better in the game and think about way more stuff, while have more confidence in your ability to execute mechanics

[@pereralonso]

And here was I thinking I was weird for using 3000 dpi. 12000 is absolutely insane.

[@glenndiddy]

Muscle memory is how you get good at anything. It's not just a game thing. If you want to play an instrument it has to be done without thinking of where your fingers have to move or what you have to play next. You just have to play it on autopilot essentially. The same thing goes for literally anything you want to do, it starts of taking mental effort, but after practice it becomes second nature. Just imagine how annoying it would be if you had to consciously think about brushing your teeth or how to drive a car

[@Lejacoby]

Do you guys have a list somewhere of your favorite improvement books?

[@garagavia]

The lads are back

[@smappa849]

Orders are more like guidelines, really. -Tristana Same goes for the principles we follow, there is a reason they are there, but it's up to you in that moment and in the moments before the play to decide how to apply yourself in this instance.

[@MakZkovich]

Showmaker plays on an EDPI of around 12k (2.5k + 100 ingame I think?), Caps plays with 3.2k and 70 in windows settings (nowadays it overrides it but yeah), so high dpi definetly works. I just copied caps and the advantages are that eventhough you should still do short clicks, it is very easy to flick your wrist to pan your camera, click back and forth and hit skillshots. As long as you don't sacrifice accuracy and feel comfortable it doesn't matter unless you go to the extremes. Also DPI depends a lot more on your monitor, mouse and mousepad than just the number.

[@anantvirsingh4282]

for champ pool cycling do u wanan switch ur champ every 50 or is it more like 100 games?

[@TylerAyyy]

in like 2015 i saw something that said that faker used 3200 DPI and I turned my mouse to that and never changed it since. D4 last split and still idolize faker the same way

[@DJ_Treu]

I used to coach New tanks in WoW who wanted to get into M+ and Mythic raiding - Adaptability can not be taught in my opinion - you put the idea in their head and pray they understand that there is a list of options for them to choose from - but one is safer than the others....being safe doesnt always work long game In the sense of taking only a specific route to translate from tank to JG if you dont pay enough attention to notice that the animation of XYZ mobs reset so their pathing is off you wont see the big gap between the 3 groups you usually ignore BECAUSE the XYZ pathing is usually making it a 5 stack pack...now its just 3 so you CAN do it and save time instead of waiting for animations / patrols to go away)

[@Kamishi845]

The thing about people with a really rigid mindset is that the rules create predictability. I used to duoq with an Amumu jungle many years ago, and he would consistently always do dragon at a certain minute in the game no matter the game state. It was baffling how often he managed to get it even when it was a terrible decision to make. The thing about that is that gives direction. He knows that at 7 min he will be at dragon no matter what, and that's likely because they fail to identify self-imposed directions within the game itself. I think a good analogy here is people who are internally vs externally motivated when it comes to goals, like a discussion I had with someone who did not understand the point of making up your own goals in a game like Elden Ring. To them, it's to follow the story and kill the final boss and that's it, end of the game. Whereas to me, I like to explore more and discover the world. I come up with my own goals completely unrelated to the directed goal of the game i.e. kill all the story bosses until the end. So that's why I also enjoy games where I can direct what I do in the game e.g. city builders or sim games. It was very easy to understand that League is too dynamic to always follow a certain rule every given point in time, because the conditions that would satisfy it for being the correct decision were simply not always true.

[@gubbebubbe4942]

@@Kamishi845 Very fascinating comment !!

[@DJ_Treu]

@@piquant7103 Yea some people dont pick up on patterns as easy as others. Pretty common. Not that hilarious when you realize that "Good players" are only 10% of the player bases of any game.

[@DJ_Treu]

@@piquant7103 You clearly havent met the Heros of the horde i know then LOL - but jokes aside - youre not wrong, ive not claimed pve is harder than PvP but there are people out there who just dont pick it up as fast or dont have the time to spend 3 hours on youtube and want someone in their ear helping them instead in PvE - especially in M+ where going from a 10 to a 12 to a 15 can be equated to going from iron to silver in League - the spike in skill requirement and expectations to deal with the way they exponentially spike keys after 10 will break people if theyre not ready for it. OFC the +20 keys are saved and done by the top 10% but its the same with league rankings and even bronzes ask for coaches in something thats as simple as "Just learn to last hit / what champ counters who / put in hours to gain mastery" I helped the 2% new player base that didnt know jack shit about the game TLDR. Dont pretend bad players dont exist and buy boosts - some of them do have pride and instead give tokens to coaches.

[@younggod5230]

WHAT. 12000 dpi is insanity

[@Manifibell]

1500 DPI 😅 I guess I got used to it from long-time MMO play. I cannot play with the DPI people use for shooters. How are you supposed to do a 180 if you have to move your hand from one end of the table to the other?

[@StayMad26]

Me playing riven, I wasnt able to focus on anything else other than my champion

[@gyranix]

I run 800 DPI, 1800 is doable but any higher then that is way too much

[@stnce]

4800 dpi master nidalee kindred otp, but i play fps' on 800

[@MrJoergerbomb]

I play 3150 DPI, works well for me. I honestly think you can't go much higher than this though...

[@felpulaley4534]

I like 1800 dpi with 60% speed in game, and I used to do 100%

[@jons1278]

We see this disrespect of the Mental Stack (among other things) all the time when we see League streams on twitch. Random chatters munching doritos on a couch with perfect game information clown pros trying to think 5 steps ahead of eachother on limited information. There is no continuous feedback in League unlike many other games, that fully differentiates a good player from a bad one WITHOUT requiring extensive game knowledge.

[@Taycatte]

37:00 is why I stopped playing SR. I stopped having fun. Why would I engage in a hobby that I don't enjoy doing? It's that simple. I'm not a good player. I'm not even average. I peaked Silver I 90 LP. I liked learning about high level concepts, and seeing how I can implement them into my gameplay. Could I climb higher if I put in more work? Probably, but what's the point? Why would I subject myself to lobby after lobby of just the most miserable people on earth? The chance of getting a lobby where 10 out of 10 players are good sports and enjoying themselves is just so low it is not worth the time and effort. So many humorless, angry, bitter people. Not for me.

[@anything4751]

thtats the goal from playing a game its to have fun but a lot of ppls make it a life style when it should be just a side thing

[@sara8913]

when the questions get too philosophical you two kinda sound like high friends thinking they're solving world hunger

[@bshell1731]

This didn't upload to KZbin music for some reason.

[@Zen.garden1]

Love Zakee

[@Snake_1v9]

800 dpi 250 LP euw

[@zachjackson5835]

yall talking about league not as a game of rules took me back to pirates of the Caribbean yes there are rules but there more like guidelines 26:09

[@ultimaoculis6389]

32:00