Brompton Explore 12-Speed

[@gspkmr]

I would suggest Brompton to just put a Shimano Nexus 11Speed hub instead of all these complex gearing system and make users' life simple!

[@arildschonberg3607]

It sounds good, but the Nexus 11 weighs more than the Brompton solution and probably cost more. Also the axle width may be too wide.

[@AnyTutorials]

Agree

[@rossmax767]

I had a nexus- it fell apart after a year. Not impressed at all.

[@markotrieste]

There's nothing complex.

[@kargi42]

@gspkmr Nexus is too wide. Brompton is big enough to pay Rohloff to develop a 110mm O.L.D. hub.

[@stefanmaas3026]

Good to see that Brompton addresses the demand for a wider gear range for hills. This solution doesn‘t convince me because it misses the simplicity Brompton stands for. Usability is complicated and service costs might be high. The external components of the 6-Speed wear out quickly on my bike. From my point of view priority should be fixing quality problems with the 6-Speed first and then creating a simpler 12-Speed.

[@bobcannell7603]

Kinetic cycles of Glasgow make an 8 or 11 or 14 speed hub gear conversion. Cheaper less fiddly, more reliable. Why do Brompton do things the complicated way?

[@markotrieste]

I have a 6 speed with short gearing, and still it is not enough for climbs above 10%. This is definitely an improvement, but remember to keep the option for smaller chainrings.

[@WillEDC]

Have you put a smaller chain ring in front. What’s the lowest? 33t? Also increase the cog in the back. I think it can handl 19t? You can alter your current 6 speed

[@HolgerNestmann]

With the out of the box spider crank, it‘s around 38t or 39t

[@markotrieste]

@@WillEDC I could go down some teeths on the front chainring, however not so much, because otherwise I'd run out of gears for riding on the flat.

[@robertlock6041]

Hi Mark, my 6 speed has short gearing too, but it's a 2009 bike so I'd need a new crank to go lower 😳. I'm not so worried about losing the top end because I'm cautious about speed on mixed use trails...

[@MartininitraM]

Finally. A reason to extend my Brompron-collection from 4 to 5 bikes 🙂

[@markotrieste]

There is no such thing as "too many Bromptons" 😂

[@difflocktwo]

You swimming in money.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@markotrieste Honestly I'm only able to ride one at a time, and my 6 speed bike has been as modified as possible to a weight (mudguards) around 8,5 kilo! Why do it on several bikes also, when I have what I need for its purpose and for much less cost than a T-line! I expect to reach at least 8 kilo and still with my mudguards, as a "Rainy Dane"!! Finn. Denmark

[@HolgerNestmann]

@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188Sure, but there are different days and different routes. My setup would differ from a longer tour vs a quick stroll in town. Some people might pick a dedicated bike for this. Or not everybody would like the upgraded sub 9kg brompton to be exposed to a salted road

[@MartininitraM]

@@difflocktwo My Bromptons are my savings-account. All bought used, all selling for more than I bought them for.

[@mathephysikutz2961]

@Brompton Bicycle: I'd prefer a 44 teeth chainring. This makes more sense for me for travelling in hilly terrain carrying some luggage. Is a 44t chainring compatible?

[@eegaugh]

Given all the R&D that Brompton go in for it is surprising that they have yet to contrive a quick release for the brake caliper. The four speed mech looks fine but the chain tensioner is ugly (possibly because it brings the chain so close to the dirt).

[@HolgerNestmann]

It‘s astonishing how dirty the bromptons drive train get in this weather. But still impressive that they are able to lift it that far up

[@SwissMoutain]

I hope we will soon be able to chose this option for standard c line. Was about to buy one but this will be a must have in my hilly region

[@HolgerNestmann]

You can buy a used 6 speed in the meantime. With a 40t chainring you are golden :)

[@SwissMoutain]

Tested a 6 speed today, the default chainring is perfect for me. Impressed by the range covered by the internal gears. Lausanne climbs are by far doable with 6 speed steel brompton :-)

[@n.h2786]

Well, finally the wait is worth it. Now you can get 1 bike that works for all terrain. Definitely super appealing.

[@simonbernard4216]

“For all terrain” yeah sure

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

Hahaha if you want a more versatile folder, this isn't it. This is a hacked solution that is absolutely baffling from a premium brand like Brompton, painted up to look like a feature rather than a bug. The intuition of which hand to use for main shifting is reversed. You have to stop pedaling to shift the hub. This is disastrous. A slightly larger wheel, ISO 406 or 451, would allow a long-cage derailleur with multiple large chainrings. And if that's not your bag, you could have far better, premium hubs from Shimano or Rohloff on a 16" wheel, with a wider gear range, far less complicated shifting, and no overlap in speeds. Brompton's close relationship with SunRace is hurting the customer.

[@GilSotero]

Wow! Amazing!

[@duncanhamilton5841]

Well there's a load of admin to deal with - the 6spd is relatively straight forward in that it's really a 3spd with high and low ratios for each 3. Changing down or up on the hub is a relatively quick and simple flick of each thumb to bring the derailleur up or down one to match - such as going from theoretical 2nd to 3rd gear as it is 1st-low to 2nd-high. But on the 12spd to go from theoretical 4th to 5th means a left thumb press to go up one on the hub, and then a load of chain clattering to get from 4 to 1 on the derailleur??

[@Muddy283]

_"the 6spd ... theoretical 2nd to 3rd gear ... is 1st-low to 2nd-high"_ Didn't you mean _"1st-high to 2nd-low"_ ? But it's an interesting point you're making regarding the 12-speed. I hadn't thought of that. The way you put it, it does indeed seem problematic. Having said that, if you study their gear inches tech diagram (2:42 onwards), gears 4 and 9 seem to be redundant (as 2Bikes4Adventure in their _"The New 12 Speed Brompton"_ video helpfully point out) so that makes things a little easier. I really must test out this 12-speed version next time I visit a Brompton Junction (or a shop that has demo/courtesy bikes) so I can properly test how it works out in practice.

[@alasdairmaughan1]

The accent change at 4:02 took me for a spin 😂

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

Is it narrated by AI? It's so like Brompton, though. Building a new, shiny HQ, insisting they're still so premium... But offering a hacked-together product as if it's innovation, and using shortcuts for producing their videos. At this point the off-patent copies are more appealing.

[@kryb2k5]

0:55 What are "advanced frames"? Does that mean the triangle is wider?

[@stolenorange]

I've just bought a 5 speed sturmey archer hub. Not exactly 12 speed but all internal. Hopefully no fuss!

[@deniselee1900]

Nice gear range 👍Those older 3x2 speed can still be converted to 3x3, 54T with 12,14,16 will get you 35~116 gear inches

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

How? If so I may be interested🤔? Finn. Denmark

[@deniselee1900]

@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4Szl6GtZaaHmbcsi=FuaWThc153YIRxog

[@NoZenith]

This sounds perfect!

[@JT-wg3jg]

Ze Frankenbike. Finally covered the 11-speed range but at what cost: awkwardness and *exposed* mechanical complexity. I would bet a pinion-like solution + belt drive would be better overall. I don't care if it covers less that this 11-speed range, simplicity beats everything else.

[@HolgerNestmann]

Yup Id be interested in this. Just cleaned my drive train from a single winter ride. It‘s just a radical new development for the bottom bracket with a foldable belt. Brompton rarely does things like that. Arguably the electric could be smoother with a mid drive and yet they went with a front drive, which was the simplest integration and allows them the make one type of frame for A/C/C electric/P & P electric

[@sylviadivinora2286]

While i normally embrace every negative comment on Brompton, because it is clearly a scam, although a clever one, making the victims believe they bought something useful, i disagree with your technical remark on Pinion - Pinion is even a greater scam, complete BS and dead, thank god. To have the transmission at crank level, while shifting weight away from the wheel, which is good, it triples the weight for it. Dead end, period!

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

How do you intend to add a belt drive on a Brompton, the chain going through the frame?

[@JT-wg3jg]

Kinetics did it though I don't know how, I guess they adapted the chain tensioner concept.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@JT-wg3jg I have had one belt drive, "folding bike" years ago, with one sided wheel mount. It felt lousy, heavy and not at all like a chain, and gearing is difficult and may only be internal..

[@RazorWings1234]

If the hub gears work akin to a triple chainring bike, shouldn’t its shifter on the left hand side?

[@markgiddings8382]

Ur absolute right …….. anyone with such a layout will have to reprogramme their brain from 50 yrs of evolution !!!

[@danielattilavanyi]

What we had waited for is a good IGH hub, and that is it. 8 or 11 speed is enough (I am building a 14 speed Rohloff version, since I could not buy a good model from you...) I bought the 6 speed 3 years ago, and I threw away the derailleur after a month, it was horrible. It is a bad idea to combine an IGH where you should stop pedaling for a gear change with a derailleur where you have to pedal for a gear change. Other than that it needs more maintenance. And according to your charts it is way overgeared... (that is easy to solve fortunately). I am not impressed. Proprietary stuff all over again. Seeing where this is heading probably I would not buy a Brompton again.

[@Zoteism]

Will the WWC1 Sturmy Archer 3 speed hub be available to purchase separately in the future?

[@fwfefrtefdv4719]

Is the 12 speed bike folded size the same as 6 speed?

[@HolgerNestmann]

I understand the rear drop out is built differently, but it‘s not the „advance frame“ thats different - just the rear triangle. From how this video it sounds like there will be no upgrades possible. A shame considering how brompton CEOs promoting the bromptons long live and even upgradability (he made a comment about a aluminium wheel in some podcast) Hopefully I am wrong and this upgrade will be made available. It can be sold with a margin and would please the brompton dealers to get some mechanics hours and yet wouldnt need to produce new mainframes just for a wider gear range

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

I think you are able to buy upgrade sets to enable the use of an ordinary gear changer, also on a Brompton!!

[@Sparky_oto]

Will owners of the 4 speed P line bikes be able to readily upgrade their bikes to the 12 speed version?

[@Sparky_oto]

@@jazzfan7491 the Brompton product listing suggests it’s only 300g heavier. A small weight penalty for much better speed range imo That said, it’s unclear if Brompton offers upgrades for 4 speed bikes to 12 speed 🤔

[@owenchuarbx]

Bring it to the standard Brompton.

[@arildschonberg3607]

You CAN choose this for the standard C line Brompton.

[@owenchuarbx]

Maybe but there should be an aftermarket conversion kit for pre-2022 bromptons. Including the new advanced rear triangle for the electric c line

[@kr15uk]

@@arildschonberg3607only C Line electric though, also looks like it’s new design rear triangle but not titanium, I guess we’re few months away, let’s hope.

[@robertlock6041]

I want one! But I would swap the chain ring for a smaller size to give greater hill climbing ability.

[@markotrieste]

Definitely. If I win the lottery, I'll make a factory of bicycles for people living in hilly places, looks like we are the last minority that needs recognition 🤦

[@robertlock6041]

@@markotrieste 🙂🍻

[@antcooper]

I have the smaller chainring on my 6 speed. There used to be a gearing chart on the Support site that showed a -12% reduction, so 1st gear would be 29.1" rather than 33". Looking at the chart at 3:36 it seems like the 12 speed would cover this and stop you spinning out at 88" (6th gear with smaller chainring). I also find the big gaps annoying. I'd love to test ride this and see if it's better

[@robertlock6041]

@@antcooper Hi Ant, I've got the same gearing on my 6 speed. I don't relish going too fast on a Brompton so 88" is fine for me. If I bought a 12 spd I'd probably go for a 39 tooth chain ring, but I'd need to check the ratios first...

[@Muddy283]

_" I would swap the chain ring for a smaller size to give greater hill climbing ability"_ Same for me. If I went for this bike, I'd probably choose the Brompton 12% reduction 44-tooth chainring (which I already have on my BWR 6-speed version).

[@L33tw0rk]

I still only use the hub gears for my 6 speed Brompton, looks like the 12 speed is just two more on the derailleurs, this wouldn’t be useful for me. If they change to a higher gear range internal hub, they will be for me.

[@jesusjohnblog]

Same. I have the six speed for the range, not the increments. Very rarely on a steep hill I might go to 1 minus. But 99% of the time I’m just using the three hub gears. For me to feel the benefit here, I’d need the hub to have an even wider range (which then *might* bring increments into play). As a (largely) urban cyclist, I’m fond of hub gears as changing down stopped at red lights is a game changer. So I’m personally glad to see them keep faith with hub gears, albeit a bit disappointed they have persisted with the hybrid hub/derailleur rather than offering a wider range hub with a greater number of hub gears.

[@jhanschoo]

Same. I appreciate the wide gear range of the 6-speed; I use the high gears when I'm at straights, mid for easy cruising, and low when I need walking or jogging speed on the sidewalk. But I needed the wide range, not the number of ratios.

[@jonathanlip8327]

I have a six speed. Can I just upgrade to 12 speed easily? What should I do😊

[@fnordpol]

That 12 Speed system is rather a 10 speed system, don't you think? I like the fact that it covers a wider range though but I also love the fact that the 6 speed system covers 6 indipendend gears that have a similar ratio.

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

Three overlapping speeds, requires reversed hand layout (good luck with muscle memory if you ride anything else), requires special operation (stopping your pedaling to shift the hub, have fun if you're already on a steep hill), and is generally a worse product hacked together from whatever was laying around in SunRace's warehouse, rather than being a clean, premium high-range hub.

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

@@PRH123 I do "think" of it that way. It's still extremely silly. I don't describe 3x/2x as "27 speed" or whatever either.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

As the speed range of a Brompton is very limited, I hardly think it is worth the money to add more gears than the 6 on mine. Being able to chose ½ a gear is mostly nonsense, and I hardly ever use my low gears of my 6. Only once I have had use for the lowest gears.

[@endymion2001]

I test rode the P line 12 speed and opted for it. But only because of the lower gears, I cannot see myself ever needing the top 3 gears in the third hub gear, way too long. Maybe it would be better to create a 6 speed but reaching the lowest gear range of the 12 speed.

[@civetricamoto]

can you upgrade older bikes to this new system?

[@macanic5161]

See 0:48

[@kr15uk]

Technically yes but you need new type rear triangle which usually is not sold for us mortals (having that said I’ve bought “new other” rear triangle of eBay in the past), the rest should be able to buy off the shelf in coming weeks/month my bet. At this point not sure if it’s economically viable unless you have some very specific build like nickel plated beast or some sentimental value.

[@civetricamoto]

What models have this new type rear triangle? I have two bikes from 2021 and a Chapter 3 4th edition.

[@kr15uk]

@@civetricamoto blocky rectangle like suspension block is on the new one, round classic tube like suspension goes on the classic/older style.

[@guillaumeschmidt6864]

I would like to find the configurator on the Brompton website to be able to make my bike tailor-made

[@twowheelsintokyo7039]

Welcome to 1972! Just kidding, I love Bromptons.

[@karlgw]

are the internals / ratios for the new hub the same as the BWR?

[@novakurniawanwijayanto3192]

Naaah, i want the replies for this question too haha

[@MartinMeiler]

Not enough hills in London or why did you film in South Bristol ;-)

[@BadByte]

Eh.. a propper internal hub gear would be preferable. Could even be a 7 or 8 Shimano nexus hub.

[@larsthorwald3338]

As long as you adjust your expectations, Brommies are fine. Don't expect it to ride like a full-sized bicycle. Tourist puttering, short commuting, relaxed urban cruising...no problem.

[@HolgerNestmann]

I just did a 600km tour accross latvia with a brompton. No problem to transport my bike. One gets used to the specifics of riding it. I give you that off roading and cobble stones are less fun on a brompton

[@sylviadivinora2286]

Normally i adjust my bikes to my expectations. If they can't or expect me to adjust, they can't be my bikes. Brompton is great at selling inferiour stuff for premium.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

Honestly I could as well put a double chainring and shifter in front, to obtain a 12 gear system on my 6 speed, now much less than 2019 SuperlightM6LXBrompton! It has come close to as low in weight as a T-line, with a lot of titanium parts, and work on the mudguards. Finn, Denmark

[@WillEDC]

That’s true. There are 53-33t out there. And just kick it over for those rare super hills

[@HolgerNestmann]

Where would you put the third shifter then ;) People made a manual one and there is schlumpf that I believe you engage with a toe kick. All doable

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@HolgerNestmann The third shifter could be on the frame. But as for now, for my lowest gears - I at first wondered what to use them for (they are too low!)?? Till I met an absurd steep, Danish hill and had to walk on top, to go up! So honestly 12 gears just makes it more - complicated and I have the gears I need on this "heavy rolling" little absurdity! Its primary function is "transport as folded", and not being used as a bike!!😄Finn. Denmark

[@HolgerNestmann]

@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 Is that the highest point somewhere near Århus? :) If so there are steeper spots elsewhere 12 feeling a lot is fair, I can also get by with the 6 gears - but I have smaller chainring. I guess one needs to see if the complexity is a problem - if they need a lot of maintenance its an issue. Having to pull the hub cable is a bit odd

[@Muddy283]

@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 _"this "heavy rolling" little absurdity"_ Personally, I disagree. I love my Brompton! (It's now my only "mobility device". I got rid of my car almost 20 years ago.)

[@bikeandbite_]

I ride the 6 speed superlight and have not needed any additional gears up and down the hills and climbs of the palisades/NYC but I suppose there is a market for folks who need that extra set of variation. I can see people having a problem getting confused shifting between the derailleur and the internal hub while pedaling. The beta versions usually have some kinks to work out.

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

Mine is also a 6 speed Super- and I hardly find a need for more gears? The low gears are mostly for extreme cases, which are only seldom met, and the upper gears are fine with me, for ordinary circumstances. Rolling down a steep hill I just let it roll!

[@NoZenith]

​ I find I run out of pedal pretty easily if I'm on a downward grade. I want to go faster when I'm riding on the road (USA)

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@NoZenith You are free to change to a larger size Chainwheel in front then. I honestly find a Brompton a "Rescue Boat/Bike" if in need of a bike, as it rides horribly on the small wheels, with a lot of resistance from those! Its sole reason for being produced is its easy transport as folded! I do like my Brompton and have lately wasted a lot of extra money on making it extremely, and more light than originally when bought. I expect to reach 8 kilo and with mudguards still.

[@NoZenith]

@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 it's my everything bike. I ride it to the bar and take it in with me. I ride it to the grocery store and take it in with me. I fold it up put it in the back of my little hatchback and go on vacation. I don't ride a bike often enough for pleasure to cruise around that I find the need to invest in anything else since I didn't have much adult experience with a bike anyway living in the USA that I have anything to significantly compare it to so it actually rides really nice to me! On top of that, I never had a bike that had all the gears and brakes work at the same time so it's pretty luxurious

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@NoZenith As an old bike-builder for many years I do know most of what goes on on a bike, and a Brompton is mostly outdated. Hardly anyone uses still a square crank but old and cheap bikes. And first the latest titanium bikes have folding hinges to be serviced and replaced with ease! And the air holes by those are a disaster, as they let in water and gravel elements to reach the top of the crank from that, as the bearing on the fork! The small wheels give a heavy ride. There is a reason why new MTBs use larger wheels. Its one reason to be made is its ability to fold into a very small package! You may do what other bikes do on a Brompton, but it takes more effort to do it!!!

[@GuyCruls]

using chat on the Brompton Junction London website, they say it's not available on non-electric C Line bikes - is that correct?

[@kr15uk]

Yeah, looks like C Line Electric uses the same new rear triangle as P/T Line but presumably not titanium, I bet next C Line wave will have it and current 6 will be A Line variant, unless this in now new segmentation…

[@wilsonyap1094]

And is it the same for gear indexing?

[@JeronPlas]

I think it's enough for a talk of several hours, but to summarize it in two points, this is my opinion: 1 - The weight. The P Line and T Line started a new path for Brompton with respect to gears and weight. The 4 gears are a good option and open the way to a future where there are more gears and more range but with the advantage of low weight. There are already options from alternative brands of 7 gears with a wide range and because they are external gears they maintain the advantage of the low weight of the bicycle. What Brompton offers with this upgrade is to buy a T Line, spend extra money on the 12 gears... So that it ends up having the weight of the P Line. Has no sense. The ideal would be to increase the external gears while keeping the bicycle below 8 kg. 2 - Has anyone stopped to think about how complicated it will be to change between 12 gears by combining 2 shifters? Starting it would be: Gear 1 on the left, advance on the right from 1 to 4, go to gear 2 on the left, return right to gear 1, advance from 1 to 4... Not to mention that the internal gears are used without pedal, but the external ones are changed by pedaling, you have to do all that at the same time... If you are going to advance down the path of internal changes despite its weight, put an 11-gear Alfine HUB, all in a single shifter .

[@WisteriaBerlitz]

Not a fan of 3*4 gearing tbh. My experience with triple chainring on mtbs were pretty meh Maybe making the P/T line derailleur to >4 speeds like 3rd party ones could've been better. That and perhaps add a double chainring like road bikes. Bought a 7s UJ set with carbon wheels recently, can't wait to install and test ride

[@adventurehypelife3819]

I wonder if they will ever use a Pinion Drive system on a Brompton.

[@yasinkara1617]

Does 12 speed give better performance on hills than 6 speed? What is the crankshaft ratio? 44t or 50t

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

Not necessarily! I had difficulty in finding use for my low gears, of 6, til I met an extreme hill going up, and had to walk for a higher speed! I honestly hardly think that the minor speed range of a Brompton deserves that many gears! I would feel embarrassed if being overtaken by walkers, while still riding my bike! And a Brompton isn't exactly a racing bike, on the small, "heavy rolling" wheels! Finn. Denmark

[@garevat5837]

Es wäre super, wenn Brompton eine „Rohloff“ Nabe vom Werk ab im program hätte.

[@Miraflores1990]

Finally! 😂

[@keaixiaomeinv]

Isn't it time to do what aftermarket components and Brompton clones are already doing? That is, foregoing the SRF3 hub and just go with an external 7-speed instead? It's lighter, less complex, and cheaper.

[@keithchambers-oq6nb]

KISS PRINCIPLE BROMPTON..😮

[@cwe3874]

I have thought a long time over the how and why... The 3x4-solution looks somehow ugly to me. So why is it that way? - I presume, this are the reasons: - Brompton is somehow connected with the former brand StormeyArcher. What other reason could hinder them to put a simple solution (e.g. 8 internal gears) into the line? - Brompton has coupled together this old StormeyArcher with the system of the 4 outer gears (which already has been developed too) - Why now this 2 completely redundant gears? --> simple: This is the one and only combination possible which makes more or less sense without changing the internal hub. - Why not just throw away one (the largest) outer cog? Then there would be no redundancy. Would a 3x3 not be a cleaner solution? --> no, because then you would loose the one and only point making sense for this 'new system' - the uppermost gear for hills. So - you have all this hassle with switching gears (1 up + 2|3 down, 1 down - 2|3 up) and carrying around one additional cog - just for having one gear on the high side. For a folding bike. Which should be simple and light. Sorry to say that Bromton: I as a customer of a 6-gear C-line would have bought this ridiculous expensive T-Line with more gears (e.g.6). But at this price-point I do not want to have the feeling, invested thousands of € for a compromise which is not technically necessary. There is simply no technical reason to stick with the StormeyArcher internal hub. Why no Alfine? Or one of the Rohloff's? At least for the expensive T-Line? Or 2 front-cogs? - The simplicity of a folding bike has gone anyway with a 3x4-solution... Of course I listened what Brompton told about the principle of the 12-gear-system: Brompton: You do not switch internal gear very often. Unless it is time to switch to the higher or lower range. Most of the time you will use just the outer 4 gears. My person: Yes, if you are lucky, then this maybe right. But if you are not lucky, you will have to switch the internal gear very often. As in my case with the C-Line-6-Speed. But compared to the 6-speed where you just switch ONE gear on the left side every second time - the 12-speed solution does not have this constant way of changing gears. And when changing, you have to go 2 or 3 gears up/down on the left side and one on the right. The more or less constant and simple way of the 6-speed is no longer there. Which makes the 12-speed-system in my opinion a cumbersome and unnecessary complex solution.

[@oe59]

Alfine 11 gives 409% or so, but wider spacing of rear axle, possibly making the fold a bit larger (112mm axle vs 135mm axle for Alfine, still acceptable, I'd say). Alfine 8 is not worth it at 307%; both about 1665-70g. Rohloff is also 135mm axle, about 1700g, but the cost is on a different level. Brompton BWR at 302% weighs 944g, costs US$180.00

[@cwe3874]

@@oe59 Brompton should offer the 6-speed-variant at least for the T-Line. I have had the oportunity to try out the 12-speed-P-Line --> everything I presumed above I got confirmed... Absolutely confusing. When you need to switch the internal gears, you have to switch 2 or 3 times on the left. 2 gears are completely redundant --> you have 10 gears Far to the fast side which in average you will not need

[@oe59]

@@cwe3874 You have confirmed my thoughts, although I was hoping; agreed on 6-speed P & T lines.

[@GentHoChan]

Imagine needing to remember to freewheel up a slope and lose speed cos u forgot about the eventual hub damage and failure. And then imagine needing to deflate tyres just to get it out or in lmaooooooo.

[@realhass]

thanks, but my 6 speed it's still all rounder

[@andycoatsworth7473]

Looks good, but it would be even better with a smaller chainwheel - 28-118 inches is way too high.

[@ytehome]

Looking forward for electronic shifting systems. 🎉

[@FuchsHorst]

Dual Drive ;)

[@mrmott44]

6 years behind Indonesian hackers.

[@drill_fiend1097]

I just want to see 6-speed igh Brompton

[@tonytheantony]

Umm, don't fancy lugging a 15mm spanner, torque wrench and my bike stand in case I get a flat on my commute. Nor do I want to re-index my gears when it's -5 degrees c, dark and sleeting heavily during gusty winds over a deep puddle!💦🤣 Oh my golly..who edits these YT videos? What's gone on with the voice? Scary stuff!💀👻😳

[@jon_underscore]

Why does this cost £150 more than the six speed? The Sturmey Archer 4speed hub is only £18 more than its 2 speed. Sounds like a ploy to sell overpriced, unnecessary "solutions" to the nieve

[@guymodz20]

y am puuuuurr...😞

[@davidharris3391]

I love my Brompton 6-spd overall, but the idiotic gearing is its worst feature. This 12-speed just doubles down on the insanity. It barely has more range than the 6-spd, is even more complicated, and has overlapping gears, which means shifting up or down over those overlaps is like driving an 18-spd manual tractor trailer - not exactly user-friendly. I have no idea why Brompton doesn't simply switch to a 7-spd or 11-speed hub. It would be *WAY* more user-friendly, and more reliable.

[@philippecasteleyn9327]

Do not work with rings on your fingers.

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

This is an absolute disaster of a drivetrain, how in the world is it being marketed as the premium solution of an already premium brand? Who hacked this together? Who thought this was a better idea than just biting the bullet and contacting Shimano or Rohloff, or waiting for SunRace to develop something better? A slightly larger bike with a proper long-cage derailleur touring drivetrain is far better, and failing that, the aforementioned hubs would also be better. Brompton should take a massive "L" for this one.

[@fender1000100]

Just get a TERN VERGE X11 already. 11 speeds. Fast as a road bike. And climbs hills like they dont exist. And is the best looking folder ever made. For £2500.

[@gren509]

Swapping the shifter sides like this is just STUPID !!!!!

[@standardtuning4guitars423]

whats with the robot voice narrator? Youd think with all their profits they can afford a human voice?

[@philhomedog]

Why did they use an AI voice?

[@mikeb.3917]

If a British accent = "AI voice," then I like it. It is an English company, after all.

[@PronkDaMonk]

She's not AI she's just British

[@WillEDC]

Cost cutting? Recently they been looking for content creators in Asia. They expect the person to make a video for the opportunity to work for them for free 😂. They will judge your video to deem if your have the honor to work for them for free. Time money your creativity and equipment in exchange for early access. No mention of compensation or free merch or free bikes. Nothing 😂 Why are they so cheap? Wonder what their sales are like post pandemic

[@SonnyLai-i6w]

look cheap..

[@noonster55]

Why can't Brompton just make a normal 1x8,9, or 10 spd?

[@markotrieste]

Because the derailleur must recover the slack of the chain when folded. No standard derailleur can do that. Also, on a Brompton one expects a system that is easy to maintain and long-lasting, i.e. internal gear hub.

[@吃貓的魚]

Why just buy a 11 speed bike.

[@WillEDC]

@@markotriesteI believe it’s more about durability. 9 speed already exists in Chinese clones. All you need is an extra arm for the slack. All able to purchase aftermarket.

[@noonster55]

It's about time.....

[@williamlane7160]

Its gearing system to complicated, im buying the tern eclipse verge x 11 the fastest folding bike in the world,