Brushless R/C ROCKET Vertical Landing SpaceX Style - RCTESTFLIGHT

[@TomStantonEngineering]

Nice one Daniel! Cool to see the small props in the top working so well to simulate the gas thrusters. It will be interesting to see how grid fins would work with this design, if you choose to test them. Just a shame these mini quad motors/props hate to be ducted. I think the setup I used was measured at 1.5kg of thrust, but could only just lift the 400g 'rocket' at full throttle. Look forward to the next one!!

[@rctestflight]

Thanks Tom! And thanks for the inspiration! My next design uses a gimbaling motor on the top for attitude control, but I would like to experiment with grid fins/thruster motors again in the future. The duct inefficiency is indeed a bummer. I might try a profile body with my next one. Won't look amazing but oh well.

[@RCLoversan]

Ducting those propellers is not a great idea, because the motor loses a lot of thrust. Using this design you can't even add a proper solid fuel model rocket engine. As a result, you create something that is definitely not a rocket. Please take a look at my Rocket Drone... ready to be 3D printed (having some funds).

[@Specter0420]

Did you guys ever consider using a proper Electric Ducted Fan? I know they are heavier, require more RPMs, and may provide less static thrust than a naked prop but, you are putting a prop in a tube on an electric motor. That is what they are designed for. Something the size you will need is 3D printable. There is plenty online about making them. Incorporating a proper airfoil duct could help with natural stability too.

[@RCLoversan]

@@Specter0420 Being a "rocket" (even if in this case there isn't any combustion of its content), I believe that keeping an eye on weight, should be a priority. Therefore, the ducted fan motors are not the best choise (in my humble opinion).

[@rctestflight]

@@Specter0420 I think there would still be a large efficiency loss from sucking a ton of air through a tube with lots of drag in it (batteries, servos, wires, structure, etc).

[@Chevan2008]

You definetelly one of the best RC-engineering pioneer on the youtube!!

[@TobiasLeininger]

The pioneering work has been done by flight control software programmers during the last 15 years ... now it's easy to just use that.

[@lavenderfox2430]

Go look up Peter Stripol.

[@heyitsmejm4792]

@Pretty fly for a WiFi NO U

[@amachalaamachalpu9366]

it still just a multirotor with beta flight nothing special

[@Bermudakid]

Should launch it with two solid stage model boosters on the side. Then recover it landing!

[@MrLiquimatter]

Lol, Clipped in a space X crash with your sound!

[@redsquirrelftw]

That was great lol.

[@dylanw.4533]

I’ve watched it 15 times

[@jwtfpv8957]

Try retractable landing gear for the next one. :)

[@privatebubba8876]

Static landing gear to save weight.

[@augurelite]

VERY COOL! what is this warehouse youre in btw?

[@AddyOverbeeke]

Try replacing the prop/motors with EDFs that have outlet nozzle flush to the outside diameter of the fuselage and inlet ducts flush-mounted with openings in the nose cone. You could also use a gyro to stabilize the flight, not the sensor gyros but and actual gyro that has mass enough to keep the fuselage fixed once up to speed before take-off.

[@Randomname183]

Where are you working? Looks like a cool place!

[@MrZomhad]

Think he works at Freeflight (indeed looks freaking cool!)

[@luongmaihunggia]

*Tom Staton wants to know your location*

[@merxellus1456]

BPS too

[@janeEriley]

Park City, UT

[@AClarke2007]

Try having two thrust motors in the Tube (one at each end), but at the top use Ducts to control the vacuum entering. Similar to having Thrusters, just in reverse (hopefully, no one will notice the direction of air). Possibly use compressed air too, initially, to save on Battery. Also, make a shroud out of thin batteries to go around the main tube.

[@TurboSunShine]

Nice! Any chance of seeing you use a ducted fan in the next video?

[@rctestflight]

No chance. I think putting a duct fan in the rocket body will still have the same efficiency loss as putting a prop in there

[@thesnitch7]

It’s facinating ? To hear someone talk ? In the form of questions ? All the time ? Fun project as usual!

[@CradyLab]

What about using ducts for the top 4 props to get the air cleanly out of the shell

[@AboxofMonsters]

What about a next size up main motor in bottom different pitch prop .. also a pop parachute to keep you from having to repair so much. A gps to help right it from drifting more data going to the top motors to right it ?

[@rahul53885]

This is by far the best self landing homemade rocket I've seen

[@Project-Air]

Awesome project Daniel. Interesting to hear about your experiences with the body shroud inefficiencies.

[@jeffreyjuliano2835]

9:00 minutes

[@edlomonaco]

At 7:20 when it is descending you can hear the differential in thrust needed to bring it to the ground smoothly, one thing that is lacking in the space x footage. It appears the thrust doesn't change until the last 10 feet or some b.s.

[@hiddencow3272]

have you considered edfs? may have a higher pressure needed to efficiently use the facade around the rocket

[@Coltan1989]

@rctestflight @9:40 - When you are talking about the case that body impacts the performance. It's most likely due to the propeller being designed with a shallow pitch, and probably needed something more aggressive. Also you could have increase the number of blades to create a static pressure behind the propeller.

[@_mkc]

Would a mesh shroud perhaps work a little better? I have no idea about aerodynamics but it seems like it would help with airflow while still allowing for falling down at a reasonable rate

[@DCWalmsley1961]

Have you considered running two thruster motors in a coaxial configuration. May increase power to weight ratio.

[@JakeBiddlecome]

This is the most stable prop 'rocket' i've seen yet. At first I thought there must be a string running up through the tube in the first trials. Really nice work.

[@OldCaliboy]

i just got a matekf411-wind fc board and was wondering if you can do a config settings video of your set up. What was your mixing setting to get the servos to function the way yours do? Thanks for your awesome work.

[@harryhathaway1086]

What a brain. I messed around with RC when I was younger but I do not have the mentality or brains to do stuff like this guy. A huge sums up for your ingenuity👍

[@BrandonMitchell84]

so cool...what about an EDF above the TVMs ? I know there is a bit more power required but you should be able to get more thrust ...not sure if your top motors would hve to be stronger to compensate for the added weight and thrust

[@prathameshkalaskar9250]

It is different than other youtubers........

[@patrickmccrum9706]

Be Creative extremely unique

[@valeriyproklov4604]

Check out BPS. Space

[@Aeroworks540]

seems like you could use much small motors horizontally on the top just for the inital kick to straight. then figure out how to get more power out of the bottom one. I wonder if you could stack 2 on top or if it would be to heavy.

[@velwheel3135]

I wonder, if you made the nose cone a smaller diameter to allow a ring of clear flow air to flow down the body to the props, would that help? Also, ducted fans might increase efficiency. Good build.

[@MarcStollmeyer]

If you add a separating payload at the top you can have a high CG for accent and a low CG for decent. I’d recommend adding a second (counter-rotating) motor at the bottom so the fins can focus just on pitch and yaw, plus that gives you a higher thrust to weight and you can put higher pitch props on it.

[@dylanhealy4473]

How'd you learn all the intricacies with the electronics & working with PCB Boards

[@wayneiona]

Well done, I wonder how a set of wings would go for vertical to horizontal flight.👍

[@TheXJ12]

Suggestion : shouldn't air inlets be round like trumpets on race car carbs (or turbine inlet) and outlets sharp as trailing edges ?

[@ronbradshaw7404]

Out of everyone trying to do this cheaply and nicely, you are the one my money was on!. Daniel could fly a Juke Box if he wanted to!.

[@FarmerFpv]

Daniel, IDK if you will see this comment now. But I think you should revisit this making it much bigger with some crazy power that is available right now. It would be sick! Maybe with a counter-rotating duel motor thrust setup and make the body out of a plastic mesh just for aesthetics?

[@BarefootBeekeeper]

How about just three motors with ducted props at the low end, instead of all that complicated servo stuff?

[@roidroid]

6:32 perhaps the vains help to dispel the propwash too, by blocking vortices etc

[@diggydice9041]

Very interesting build... I'm new to the Hobby as in..... never bought or flown any type// winged or wheels... or floating either but I've got a question about using the "3-D Printer"?? How do you use the printer & connect to the actual cutting out of your materials? I mean, do you print the shapes & lay them on the stuff to cut or do you cut the material with a special cutter? I hope you know what I'm asking? thanks & good work

[@hagerty1952]

You might want to try ducting the propeller inlet air with some tuned channels. I suspect your inefficiencies are due to turbulence inside your body tube (akin to the "Krushnick Effect" in hobby rocketry).

[@ILLEagle_1]

For a fun experiment, have a motor on the top pushing air to the motor on the bottom for improved airflow?

[@figliano]

Try using a servo that lowers a weight to change its center of gravity on the way down?

[@bangthumper1195]

Nicely done. Would a different prop help being in a tube?

[@Theycallmeernie88]

This was amazing! Great job! What if you 3d print the shroud with ports for the air to have a specific flow? First from the nose to the side props and then out the side. Then the main one at the bottom have it's own intakes and main output down the bottom.

[@privatebubba8876]

Cool concept. Have you thought about using a ducted fan motor with a dedicated air intake tube and opening to funnel the air from the nose.

[@house89147]

So if Pegasus was the flying bedstead, is this the flying loo brush?

[@wsc112782]

One thing your design has going for it is mass up high, kind of like balancing a broom on the palm of your hand. That's why it was able to fly so well with just the bottom motor. The top thrusters do help it pull out of the fall once it's gone sideways, but it would still be cool to try gridfins.

[@chaztech9824]

use some grid fins! Great stuff, wonder how high it can go if built for height?

[@brenddondrew3515]

An idea for the body instead of using foam use stiff aluminum windows screens to wrap it. it'll allow a lot more airflow and offer some protection. Plus it'll still give you the look of a fuselage.

[@shawncollins2925]

I was thinking you might be able to get rid of two of your small motors if you staggered two motors and run them in 3D.

[@Leo99929]

What about a fabric that would look solid but let air through, like on the front of speakers?

[@sviccc]

You must enable airmode in betaflight. It keeps pids loop running even if you are not pushing throttle. So it will be stabilized whole time.

[@matthewconnor5483]

Have you considered using a EFD for the main engine? It would be more like a rocket engine. For "grid fins" a set of drag stabilizer flaps that fold out should be enough to maintain a vertical orientation.

[@btshakil]

Why not use a gyro on the middle? The middle rod of the rocket frame as an exile! Just a thought.

[@memorx87]

Are you using betaflight as control software ? Enable Air-Mode to give the top motors more value during low trotthle to corecct the gimbal inputs.

[@brianclose8636]

I'd recommend putting the upper motors on the outside and putting in air channels with intakes near the middle for the lower motor.

[@Rattletrap-xs8il]

Just wondering, but, what about am adjustable center of gravity? Like a tungsten nut on a piece of lightweight ball screw shaft. Rotate the shaft to adjust the CG?

[@brundlefly3658]

What propeller size are you using for the main motor on the bottom? @13:38 that propeller looks really tiny! Is that a 3 inch Prop? Put a 5 Inch Tri blade on and run it on a 4S 850mah lipo!

[@hugh_jasso]

What if you replaced the 4 smaller vector motors with a single motor + vanes?

[@jedituck]

You could open the top of the body like a shuttlecock with a single servo, this would move the CP for descent, but I doubt you could transition back to forward flight without landing.

[@jaysont96]

Looks like the issue with arresting the descent of the fall is a phenomenon called settling with power. It's a flight condition that rotary wing aircraft experience from when descending too rapidly. It is essentially settling in its own downwash causing the blades stall. So no matter how much power you give it, it will just keep sinking. The actual reusable rockets do not suffer from this because they use rocket thrust propulsion to land instead of rotors. If it happens again, move the craft laterally to escape the downward column of air that it has produced.

[@alanedge1159]

My spelling might be off . Have you tried Victor Showbergs impeller as a rotor id like to see how mutair it could shift if aimed

[@trooperthatsall5250]

just a suggestion, if you shorten the body will it improve the performance?

[@findmeinhawaii4782]

Great effort and attempts! If you don't mind me being a critic and offering some suggestions here are my thoughts. I think most of the power (a lot) should come from the top of the rocket as if you were pulling an umbrella by its tip upward. Let the bottom sort of dangle with less power during flight. Just enough for control and balance to keep it steady. But upon landing and your approach to the ground, use the bottom engines at full power to cushion and reduce the speed of the fall to a soft landing. Good luck! Aloha Ken

[@Benth3rdoneth4t]

You should make a hybrid rocket next. Make it go up using an E or G size model rocket motor, and come down using the stabilizing propellers with an A size model rocket motor to slow it down :)

[@papaolhos]

How high could something like that propel itself? Like scaled up if need be. And could you strap some rockets to it and activating them at the limit in order to get it out of the atmosphere?

[@tiberiu_nicolae]

The atmosphere limit is 100 km up (or 80km depensing who you ask) so say it flies vertically at 100 or 200 km/h, the battery would need to last at least 30 min-1 h, thus is not possible with the setup . Also, the more you go up the less dense the air is and the less lift you get. My guess is that this could possibly go 1-2 km high max.

[@illpro2]

You try different motor/prop combinations? That motor/prop combo barely seems to provide any thrust. Love the video and channel.

[@bobhawkey3783]

Just a thought - and trust me, I have no idea what I'm talking about - what if you had a threaded rod with a weight on it that could be moved up and down to change the cg just by spinning the rod. This stuff is so cool. Love your videos, great work.

[@jedijeremy]

Sweet! Nicely done, Daniel! If I may offer a suggestion: instead of the 3D printed "solid" nose cone, perhaps if you have two flat pieces of foamboard slotted together in an "X" that would give you the side-profile of a nose-cone that you clearly want for verisimilitude, but would allow a lot more air to get through and reduce weight compared to the plastic. I wish I could draw a diagram, I hope you get what I mean.

[@S0K0N0MI]

You dont need to rethink the body design, its the props that are the problem. Look at EDF fan blades and compare; Cowls actually improve efficiency if the propellers are done right.

[@pauljs75]

It might have something to do with the static hovering more than anything else though. The blades can push air out faster than the in-rush of new air. The drop in pressure on the intake then causes the blades to stall. If it had the fan at the very top edge of the exposed cowling, then it might be less of an issue. Might be interesting to get a look at what's going on there with some high-speed footage and a smoke machine. Because then you could see what the pressure drop on the intake is doing in relation to the airflow. (Not only useful for ducted fans or props, but things like small jets or turbo-compressors too.)

[@stephencrowther524]

Sven A close fit of the prop to the tube is crucial. Look at ducted fan for illustration. 👍✌️

[@davidklement2201]

Hi, It's very nice. Which flight controler did you use for main motor and 4 servos? Thanks a lot

[@doverivermedia3937]

Fantastic 👏 project ! Thank you for sharing. The next might be an autonomous floating raft for it out on the lake ? Haha. 🇬🇧

[@Xailow]

What about using gas thrusters at the top? CO2 canisters with controllable valves? I'm sure it'd take a fair amount of engineering but it might be more effective than the quad rotors

[@Sherlock_MacGyver]

SpaceX does it by shifting the internal weight from end to end. When descending, the weight is shifted so the weight is higher up near the cone. This makes it more easily steered at the other end Would also move the fan far closer to the cone. I would put the batteries in a more aerodynamic enclosure, and be able to shift the battery weight up and down, as I was talking about before.

[@tiberiu_nicolae]

Co2 valves and canisters are heavy

[@NickRehmcontent]

Oh my god I was hoping you would show the old yellow thing hahahaha. It's crazy how far you've come and that you're still goofing off. I must say I spent a lot of my early RC years trying to keep up with you and the crazy shit you did like that giant cargo plane or the delta yak

[@NickRehmcontent]

Also, you may want to consider skinning a frame with some door screen type material and painting over that. You still get the looks but probably get about twice the airflow into the motors

[@SammyDoesAThingYT]

What if you attatched rocket motors to bring it up and use the motors for decend ?

[@ericdamexican]

Yes please! More of this intriguing project!!

[@QImpact]

Very nice test flight. Looking forward to seeing you test out grid fins (hint, hint). What would be really interesting to see is a conventional chemical first stage, and then landing with your thruster motor.

[@macrumpton]

Very nice. Perhaps you could make ribs like a boat cover the whole thing in a very wide mesh fabric which would allow the air resistance for controlled falling (and from a distance look pretty solid), but allow air to come to the prop through the whole body.

[@Siamect]

With two flight controllers, how do you deal with the i-term? It would normally go plus on one controller and minus on the other thereby fighting each other. I-gain zero on one of them?

[@forfengeligfaen]

Great video. How did you configure INAV?

[@greg0063]

Great project, I would really like to see a basic single copter design. What components, FC, servos, etc and what program to use. That seemed to hover great on the lower part alone, and yes to bumble around the yard would be pretty fun.

[@glumfish6862]

You could add a parachute to slow it down during that falling stage (maybe mounted on the side) and then release that and land with the thursters. This would increase flight time as you wouldn't need as much motor to slow down.

[@davidtheinventor]

Very nice effort! Have you considered using rocket engines for the initial ascent and reserving your electric motors for the landing (therefore allowing for more corrective power)? Anyway...nice job!

[@Ramosfoli]

dude, if you put two Brushless like the one in downside of the rocket, may increase the efficiency?

[@lexxal9878]

How about using a gyroscope at the top for steering?

[@AngelBeats-KPIS]

Interesting aircraft, you completed what i wanted to have when daydreaming😂

[@lukekimble715]

I lost this channel and just found it again. Avoiding the same mistake by remembering to subscribe! Any time I'm having an engineering "writer's block" of sorts, I come here. Always innovative, always inspiring. Keep the content coming, the buffet line's only getting longer.

[@USAisAFK]

What about a sliding center of gravity. Put the batteries on a sled that rides up and down a rod. You could have it move in an analog fashion along that rod with a stepper or servo. OR just have it run loose along the rod and lock into one of two places along the rod depending on whether you are ascending or descending (would need like two small solenoids to latch and unlatch the positions.)OR have it run along the rod powered by a servo or stepper and have it only go to one of 2 positions.

[@lasersbee]

Great results... That's the best flying R/C Rocket attempt I've seen to date.

[@CradyLab]

That is seriously awesome! Did you have to make any mods to the iNAV code? BTW, your location looks like Woodinville - for some reason I thought you were in Park City, UT

[@Galeere2]

I think you could try rotors better suited for shrouded operation. i dont know how they are called, but i think they would cause less drag in the rockets tube.

[@Galeere2]

EDF Jet Engines is a keyword i have found. Their rotors should cause less radial acceleration of air than regular quadcopter blades and therefore make it more efficient

[@Galeere2]

Choosing a regular prop with the same diameter as the rockets tube would also help, but a real impeller would be the best choice

[@tysonwashburn7510]

A ducted fan for launch and then the thrusters and ducted fan for landing would be cool to see

[@danielhughes6896]

The grid fins are not used for launching, only for landing, and only while the speed is high before the rocket starts back up.

[@e-commerce6408]

Heh nice model :p u make alone?

[@Gpgesell1]

You should try inquiring solid rockets for initial thrust then just use your setup to land

[@user-fj4mb5jh8o]

Adding fold out fins to the top will vastly improve its stability while not under power.

[@VTOLKits]

Great project! Thumb up!

[@philindeblanc]

This is fantastic! Now can you take the SpaceX f9 weight/payload(dont forget the speed of fall) and see what you built and upscale what you would need to support the actual weight of the real rocket...see the level they had to go through to make that happen, what are the calcs.?

[@M4T1J4P0]

Oh my gawd, fingers and open props, moving so fast, sooo cloooose. Great rocket and video.

[@ohutchie]

Damn dude it's crazy how similar this looks to the Starship hops!

[@Skydive4ever]

Cool 'rocket' Daniel, you never cease to amaze me :-) Funny you mentionned your older video, that is the first thing I thought while i was watching the video, it reminded me of that old design :-)

[@vladoportos]

For the CG, make a weight that can travel up and down... 3D print rail and servo without stop gap... and make it climb up and down :D