Mesa Boogie Filmore 25 vs 50 - Doctor Guitar

[@schwaeh]

I know you are way beyond this decision but having the same settings hurt the 25 in this. There's so much more midrange in the 6V6 model that it needs dialed back. I wouldn't set these two the same, I get the idea but the poor 25 didn't have it's best showing here.

[@BuddaGuedes]

I sure other episodes where it shined. And o had to fix some variables to make the comparison

[@anejo333]

I like the mid focused 50 personally. This is why I love this channel for me the closest music store is 2 hours away. I don't get to try unless I buy

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot

[@grosebud4554]

The 25 had more mids, the 50 had more low end and

[@enorbet2]

Besides the fact that commercial amp manufacturers commonly "castrate" lower models to justify the difference in price (marketing, not music). On top of that the simple fact that doubling amp wattage does not double volume (12-16 percent is common, varies with speaker efficiency) more power is most often better and not necessarily much louder when designed and/or setup right. While I agree one should never go by "knob numbers" - use your ears, not your eyes - I think the sweet spot is between 30 and 60 watts for recording and club dates for most genres of Music. If you have to choose between just these 2 amps it seems the 50 has a much more flexible range, especially in the lower end. Even 100Hz requires substantial power to do clean, and if your amp can't do 100Hz clean it will sound weak, flabby and inarticulate. For the sims/modeler/profiler guys, those rigs are useful for songwriting and proto demos but they don't exhibit the dynamic feel or 3 dimensional response that inspires creative, expressive players to sound their best. If they suit you, fine, but they tend to disappoint guitar players that want a "human vocal" quality that responds dynamically to nuance. Example - Here is a phone recording of 40 watt 1x12 (Princeton cab size) amp playing at a small-to-medium size club at 85db average FOH. Note you can hear crowd noise since 85db is pretty damned quiet for many genres, so this is rather demonstrative of what it sounds like in the audience. ---- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5rKeIyLabWsna8 FWIW almost any 30-60 watt amp can be very slightly (and easily reversed) modded to cover a very wide range of venue volumes and still sound great if it doesn't already. This one was setup for a mostly clean to edge-of-breakup player and played at medium gain for this design. Cranking the amp's gain or your favorite pedal(s) will push and compress but retain clean bottom and articulation due to the amp's medium power. Larger cabs (even Deluxe size) even with the same Celestion Type A 12 sound substantially more authoritative in the low end

[@bestregardsband6912]

Just bought the 50. With the EP Booster on - it sounds incredible!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Great

[@1willywonker]

The TA 30 is the one you want to try if you want small and good try Boss Katana 100 i think you like that

[@BuddaGuedes]

I have the TA30 but it’s not too reliable. It has let me down more than 3 times!

[@1willywonker]

@@BuddaGuedes Ah okay i had the head TA 30 hell of an amp

[@BuddaGuedes]

@@1willywonker I have the head too!! But I'm looking for a combo and not that expensive.

[@ap7498]

For my ear I like the 25 better.....more definition. You could probably get through 90% of what you described at the beginning with the 25. Nice video!!

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s it! And it’s smaller and lighter too. I also like it being almost square! Thanks a lot

[@DeanPachano]

I'm surprised you haven't checked out the Mesa Boogie California Tweed. 6V6 with more power (and I assume head room) than the Fillmore 25: not light though. I own a Fillmore 50 and have been looking for a lower output 2nd amp as well. Currently I am leaning on getting mojotone to build me one of their Tweed Deluxe kits as a head and pair it with a Fryette powerstation.

[@_RLP]

Yeah, I suggested this too a couple months ago... Still hoping he'll try it out, though. Would sound killer here.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks for the advice. Will try to figure it out!

[@BuddaGuedes]

I know. Thanks

[@inertiallychallenged]

Hey Buda, fan from Memphis TN, USA here.... Fillmore 50 is my pick. Clean tone reminds me of a Super Reverb. Plus, so much more available sounds with the 50.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Great! Thanks for sharing

[@renocarifa3752]

Great comparison! I like the 50 for sure. I have heard that this is not a particularly loud 50 watt amp, in your opinion is the 50 loud enough for a 200 person bar gig?

[@BuddaGuedes]

It’s loud enough but not clean enough. It will give you a little overdrive/compression at higher volumes

[@semarcontes]

The 50 sounds way fuller, less top end, though. Isn't there a new mark five 25 1x10,, weights 11kg, looks super compact but probably not enough headroom for your needs. I don't know, it's looks pretty awesome.

[@BuddaGuedes]

It’s not for me definitely

[@herroglop7411]

From recorded sound, I would say 50, but to get it dirty you will have a lot of volume, isn`t that a problem?. Have you considered a Deluxe reverb Reissue? Even the new Tonemaster (I guess it would be the lightest and kind of same volume than the 25 or the Deluxe Reissue? What about the Hot Rod Deluxe?

[@BuddaGuedes]

Both the deluxe reverb and the hot rod are options on the table!!!

[@tinman8014]

Is that not what the drive channel on the 50 is for?

[@BuddaGuedes]

It’s also a good point

[@RafaelRechia]

Marshall DSL 40CR it's a great option too. I love my DSL 40CR

[@BuddaGuedes]

I'll have to take a look into that one. thanks a lot for the suggestion.

[@pinguim76]

Hi. To my ears, I liked more the 25 than the 50. Warmer in the clean side, and more defined on red. Keep posting and thank you for year full of really helpful videos. Happy new Year!!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot

[@ericcarpenter3263]

That 50 sounds so good but you are right. The mids on the 25 are totally different. Maybe add a small on all the time mid boost to the 50. I know it’s one extra pedal and won’t sound exactly the same, but one extra pedal weighs less that taking both, that is probably what I would do. Lol. Both amps and a switcher would be heavier than one amp and a pedalboard but oh my the tonezzz!!! Good luck trying to figure it out.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Eh eh difficult path!!!

[@sharplespaul]

The ? Is does eighther clean up enough when you roll back your volume?? Without loosing to much volume?

[@BuddaGuedes]

I'm sorry but i didn't understand your question

[@JimDwyer-r8r]

Get the Fillmore 100 as it can be so quiet and med volume and very loud top end.the switches will give you 25. 50 or 100 just use the switch

[@BuddaGuedes]

When I did this episode there was no Filmore 100

[@tricko2286]

Budda, I’m a tube amp guy but recently bought Strymon Iridium (it’s great). Would love to see you review the Iridium.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks for your comment. Impulse response us not really my thing but who knows...

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

Lol, stop

[@billtice5057]

‘‘This is easy! The 50 watt all the way.... Also, the 25 watt sounded a bit “boxy”. You’re going to have to decide though because Amps play and feel very different from the way the sound often times.

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s exactly it!!! Thanks for sharing!

[@whiteship100]

Hi Budda! Awesome vid as always!:) Imho 50 had richer texture both in OD and clean, and in 25 there was some frequency which is slightly unappealing to my ears. I'm also in market for Deluxe reverb but reissue, saving for some time now. Do you have favourite one, 64,65, silverface, twin or..? Any advice/opinion is much appreciated since i can't experience one for myself. Thnx a lot! Cheers!

[@BuddaGuedes]

I’m also looking into the deluxe reverb, that’s why I tried the Fillmore. But I’m looking into the 68 custom Deluxe reverb. I feel it’s the perfect medium amp and the channel Borneo on that is great with pedals

[@blueshurler]

The '68 is too noisy for me. Too much floor noise. Drives me crazy.

[@CTBlaze]

I am looking to buy one of these, BUT I can't stand the fact that in central Europe these amps are ca. 30% more expensive than in US. Please look at Fuchs Audio Amps, esp. the Casino series (or, the ODS of course). thanks for this assessment BTW!🤗

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s a great ideia. I played one in Luxembourg and loved it!! Thanks a lot

[@heymrguitarman7637]

Surely if you're at a gig big enough to need 50 watts, you could take one of your bigger amps? I know you want portable etc but big gigs still like and deserve big amps.

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s a great advice. Thanks

[@robertburkarthiii168]

If you want portable and clean (and 6V6) try the Two Rock Sensor 22 combo - Celestion Creamback, and super clean with a lead channel as well, and an Expansion circuit that takes out the tone stack. Or you could just get a Fillmore 100.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks 🙏

[@craiger2399]

Two suggestions: MB California Tweed; or try a more efficient speaker in the Blues Jr. The Swamp Thang will give you 102 spl, which is 6 db over the stock Jensens, which is quite a lot of headroom. Bonus suggestion: get the Deluxe Reverb... hey maybe Fender will send you a free Tonemaster Twin. Super light and attenuates down to almost nothing.

[@BuddaGuedes]

The speaker would be a good try out! Well thought! Thanks

[@carlosjtavares]

I think Budda has already upgraded his Blues Jr with an excellent speaker, WGS ET65.

[@coisfranccoisfranc7063]

Thanks for the comparison, wasn't expecting that much difference. Was the 50w on the half power setting in the test?Beautiful playing as always :)

[@BuddaGuedes]

No it wasn’t as a full powered amp. So we can compare the differences better

[@adrienzanantoni2575]

i can't make my mind either ! must buy both...

[@BuddaGuedes]

Eh eh difficult choice

[@paolog5679]

will you review the orange tremlord 30?

[@BuddaGuedes]

I would like to but I can’t own every amp in the world (although I’d love to)

[@Saurondor]

Loved the 25's tone. Sounds much cleaner than the 50's. Why don't you get two 25s? You like to use two amps anyway so you'd have the tone, the headroom and stereo for just a 50% increase in overall weight (2x35lbs vs 45lbs for the 50W). It's still 20% less than carrying the Lonestar and you'd have a backup if one fails on you. One thing to point out is that the 25 is a bit less than half the 50's. Taking a close look at the specs its rated at 18W clean and 23W max whereas the 50 is rated at 40W clean and 60W max. So the 50 has 222% more on the clean and 260% more on the max rating. Regarding portability here are my 2 cents. If you're looking for something truly portable you'll need to research some new cab material and amp circuit. For example I just got a Vox VX50BA bass amp as a replacement for my Fender Rumble. It sounds great and it weighs nothing, just a bit over 9lbs (a 40W Rumble stands at 18lbs). The Vox has a valve preamp and solid state power stage whereas the Rumble was all solid state. The key is that it's made out of ABS and the tube is the new Nutube circuit which makes it very portable and light. It's hard to beat that with classic amp circuits that require transformers and heavy glass tubes. The amp fits in a handbag and I can bike to practice and back with the bass on my back and the amp on my chest.

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s a great advice but I’m not looking for another stereo set. I’d like a simple amp that can do it all. Thanks a lot for your suggestion

[@Saurondor]

@@BuddaGuedes I hear you. Nevertheless if I were you I'd probably still go for the 25. It's got a tube you don't own yet which I guess opens up a whole new set of options and tones that would serve you well in studio when not on tour. And I'd prefer to find a solution by external amplification to the volume in a an amp whose tone I love (if that ever arises) than trying to find a solution to tone on a loud amp when playing it at half volume. In other words the tone on the 50 will be with you always even when you don't need the full power of the amp. It seems from what I gather by watching the video that that's no something you'd prefer.

[@BuddaGuedes]

@@Saurondor That's a great point of view! Thank you so much for your wise words.

[@Saurondor]

@@BuddaGuedes such words would not be possible without the time you've taken to make your videos and all that you've tought us through your channel. Thank you so much for all the insight and inspiration that you've provided me this year. I wish you the best for next year and may 2020 be filled with happiness, success and lots and lots of great tone!

[@BuddaGuedes]

@@Saurondor Thank you once again! Great to know that. We are all in the same boat.

[@bennyras3287]

Only with the strat I liked the 25 more, with the Tele and Les Paul I preferred the 50 Boogie. Considering everything you said I would go for the 50 and save some money and buy the real deal, the Fender amp next Christmas 💕👍

[@BuddaGuedes]

The fender is cheaper than the Boogie actually. It’s more a matter of versatility

[@RafaelRechia]

50 is the best for my ears, fuller and rich overdrive tones. The 25 maybe is too boxy sound, like the Blues Jr

[@BuddaGuedes]

thanks.

[@wesleyb_92]

The 25 sounds boxy to me. I like the sound of the slightly larger cab of the 50. More definition and bass. Just sounds more open

[@BuddaGuedes]

And more headroom too

[@jwh475ezc]

Good job on the comparison, the differences are pretty noticeable and I prefer the smoother tone of the 50. But I have a question, the Tele sounds a lot more distorted than the Strat but the gain setting is lower. Why is that?

[@BuddaGuedes]

It’s because my Strat has a very low output

[@jwh475ezc]

@@BuddaGuedes Interesting, that means I now have a new parameter to play with. Thanks!

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s right. My pickups are really low to get that glassy tone

[@EmilioConesa]

I am asking myself the same question right now, the 50 or 25? I'm pretty sure I'll need the headroom of the 50. Your video confirmed to me that I prefer the 50 sound. Now the question is will I like it better than my Lonestar Special? Better question is when will I ever gig again? (COVID blues...) Thanks for this comparison. Budda you the man!

[@BuddaGuedes]

I didn’t like the drive and al the lonestar is just an incredible amp

[@yarbgreat1]

If these amps had a tremolo circuit on it, I’d be 100 sold, because it doesn’t I’m also considering the Toneking Imperial Mk II

[@BuddaGuedes]

Toneking is a great one. I think the California Tweed by Mesa is a great option.

[@yarbgreat1]

@@BuddaGuedes Considering the Bad Cat Jet Black now too

[@jeffreymoore9390]

The 25 sounds better to my ears. Easier on your back too!

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s right!! Back is an issue

[@davidjanzen4067]

I have the 25,that wasn't a very good representation of it,my boy has the 50,lottsa head room but 25,s overdrive is to die for,if u live in that zone of guitar knobs down for clean 2,3rds for breakup full for overdriven,u will love it,yes cleans are boxy,to my ears but the second the overdrive starts it compresses and midrange goes up drasticly,this is more like my 63 brown deluxe with a reverb.so no not enuff headroom for what u want do buy the 50 combo,sell something and buy the 25 head and larger 1x12 fillmore cab and have best of both worlds Docter,my prescription anyway.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. I’m actually not only looking to choose between this two amps. I’m just taking the opportunity to compare them, since I temporarily have them both together. I’m also looking within my amp collection for an answer to my need! Hopefully I’ll find one of my amps can already do the job.

[@johanneshienert7882]

In your video for me the Fillmore 50 sounds better. But still I would give a chance to the Fillmore 25. Its smaller, lighter and little more special. I can imagine, that the Fillmore 25 can sound bigger too. I think you have to experiment with the Mic and EQ a little more.

[@BuddaGuedes]

I all comparing them exactly the same settings, what is never good for either, but for the comparison it has to be fixed!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks

[@andresilvasophisma]

To my ears the 50 sounds better on it's own but I'm gessing the 25 will stand out better in a mix due to the more pronounced mids.

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s exactly my doubt...

[@andresilvasophisma]

Maybe try to play them with a backing track and see wich one fits the mix better. If you get around to do it maybe you could post the video so we can also check it.

[@BuddaGuedes]

@@andresilvasophisma The thing that worries me is if they have enough cut through a loud drummer. I'm sure they will both fit very well in the mix, just in a different way. but thanks a lot.

[@_RLP]

The 50,for sure. Ballsier, more headroom and better response. I still think you should try the Cali tweed, though. Especially considering what you said about the 25 being more fender-y... Cheers dude.

[@BuddaGuedes]

That’s also on my target! I’ll try to figure it out! Thanks a lot

[@_RLP]

@@BuddaGuedes No problem. Thank you for sharing such good stuff. Whatever you go with, I'm sure it'll sound killer. Speaking of which, did you ever do in-depth videos on that strat and that les Paul? They sound great...

[@BuddaGuedes]

@@_RLP Thanks a lot. I did in depth videos for each of this 3 guitars. Just look for it on my Guitar playlist.

[@_RLP]

@@BuddaGuedes Will do, dude. Thanks for replying. Cheers.

[@SamHooperGroup]

I like the sparkle of the clean sound better on the 25. For everything else, the 50 wins.

[@BuddaGuedes]

🙏🙏🙏

[@SRV238]

For my 50❤

[@BuddaGuedes]

👌

[@edunox26]

MAN I LOVE THE 50!!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot

[@klontart]

Please sit down before I make my suggestion. Ready? Have you considered the *digital* Fender Tonemaster Deluxe? I understand it's great at cleans, sucks at overdriven. You'd get a light combo, perfectly modelling a clean 6V6 amp, it's portable, looking good, can be scaled to any level. Now personally, for studio use, I would never consider it, but for live, for cleans only, definitely check out the videos out there.

[@BuddaGuedes]

I thought about it too. But I also want something that adds to my collection. Thanks a lot for your suggestion

[@klontart]

@@BuddaGuedes Okay, let's go real then. Do you know the Bogner Telos? I own one, loving it. Has a 20/40 watt switch. Does a number of different topologies, including blackface and bassman. Beautiful boutique tube sound, definitely your thing. I remember it comes in combo format as well. Not cheap though.

[@marcorosasnet]

Overdriven tones sounded, not bad, but not good either, on the 25. Lacks something. Maybe a little tweak on the eq? I'm really lazy so i would take the 25 (lighter and smaller) and with the help of a nice od pedal (that you have) get it fuller. For Dona Carioca and Trio Pagu it's perfect. For the rest you get that break up with some external help. Like i heard, too many bees ;)

[@oliverseal6462]

For me the 50 sounded better. It could be due to the larger cabinet size or higher power rating IDK? Just a bigger rounder tone. But, that’s just my opinion, tone is very subjective.

[@BuddaGuedes]

It’s also the 6L6 power tubes

[@luismaza5640]

I honestly liked more the 50 even though I’m a mid range guitar sound junkie 😅

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks for your comment

[@klontart]

I also hear people like the new Fender Bassbreaker.

[@BuddaGuedes]

I don’t like the looks of it neither the tone! Thanks for your suggestion anyway!

[@klontart]

@@BuddaGuedes While I haven't hear the BB30r myself, based on videos I kinda agree. I *did* own the BB45 head though, and that thing is brilliant raw vintage power (although it still looks bad). But it doesn't meet your requirements for this video, at all. Well then there's still the Telos I mentioned below. It's a compact head (but heavy), I imagine the combo is similarly compact.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot. I’ll have a look

[@klontart]

@@BuddaGuedes Welcome. Amp hunting is so much fun. Oh btw, off topic, but if you happen to find a BB45 amp and you're curious now. If it's a combo, simply ignore it. Worst speaker ever. You'll probably hate it. If it's a head though, put on some dark shades (to deal with the looks of the thing), find a cab with greenbacks or V30s and enjoy.

[@gabrielcorso6938]

The 50 is better in my opinion! I don’t know, the 25 sounds a little boxy... Both excellent amps though. Keep up the good work, Budda! Cheers from Brazil

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot for your help!!

[@andreajoy4909]

If you want a Boogie take the "50" - if you want a Fender buy a Fender!

[@BuddaGuedes]

The thing is that I want an amp... Ah ah thanks

[@Musicsports]

That is a bullshit review. The 25 can sound exactly like the 50, touch the eq, move the mic.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Why didn’t it sound like the 50 then?! I can make any amp sound similar but that was not the point. The goal was to check out the differences in each amp with the same settings!

[@popstar4604]

I like the 25. More complex sound.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks

[@carlosjtavares]

For a clean sound the 25 has a more detailed sound with interesting headroom. However, as others mentioned, it sounds muddy with the overdriven tones. Maybe some EQ tweaking was needed or the 90 W speaker hinders definition at lower volumes. I would like to hear the 25 with a Cannabis Rex hemp speaker or a well broken in Jensen C12N. Nevertheless, great review, as always.

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot

[@vzphoneguy]

The 50 sounds much fuller but you should try the new fender tonemaster deluxe or twin. Light weight, power attenuation and great fender cleans!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanksgiving lot. But I’m looking for an amp to use with no pedals. Just the amp!!

[@davidjanzen4067]

P.s.luv ur show!!!!

[@BuddaGuedes]

thank you so much

[@daveellisblues]

Go for the 50 it's got bigger balls .

[@BuddaGuedes]

thanks

[@garrettstiles7808]

Uh, this is a hard decision?

[@BuddaGuedes]

It is!!!

[@henkiee88]

The 50 sounded better and fuller to me!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks a lot

[@igordrozdowski9718]

For me 25 sounds way better at least with a clean strat.

[@BuddaGuedes]

I like it a lot too

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks

[@MorGuitarz]

25 has an overall sweeter sound... And a killer, greasy midrange... 6V6 goodness

[@BuddaGuedes]

The 25 is actually 6v6 Power tubes

[@MorGuitarz]

@@BuddaGuedes Bah! Typo! I actually own the damn thing! LOL

[@BuddaGuedes]

Ok great. I also prefer the 25

[@ap7498]

The Lonestar Special combo could get you there too....that’s what I have. 1/12 (30/15/5 watt setting)

[@BuddaGuedes]

I know but it’s so heavy!!!

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks for the tip too

[@sharplespaul]

The 50

[@BuddaGuedes]

Thanks

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

You need to start lifting some weights 💪🎶 Ever consider that?

[@PhillipMoita]

Boas, amigo. Morgan amps é do melhor que há no mercado actualmente;). facebook.com/ricardo.espinha.7/videos/10221075949987778/

[@BuddaGuedes]

Sim, mas estou à procura de algo não tão caro