BUILD A BETTER "FROSTY T" FORGE BURNER PART 2: AIR INTAKE CONTROL SYSTEM

Step by step forge burner build part 2: Building the air intake control system. This will allow for adjusting the burner flame to neutral, down to a carburizing flame.
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[@FireCreekForge]

Great learning process. As a couple people have pointed out, it's possible to permanently adjust the burner as desired. The directions for the Frosty T burner tell you how. I didn't have the instructions when I made this. However, if you ever wanted to adjust between a neutral, carburizing, or even oxidizing flame for some reason, the original design won't allow that, and therefore the purpose of the air intake control system.

[@brianfalls5038]

Well sir, I really appreciate your ingenuity here with those flapper plates. I have those very same burners and I've been trying to figure out how to get some kind of control onto them. Thanks to you I can now install a set of plates like the ones you made up yourself. Good job!

[@jomorken4853]

Hey I invented that part in my head long before watching this. I like the way you think apparently.

[@MrAbarrett]

Enjoyed watching your build. Built a few forges. Nice air flow control.

[@liamr6672]

I really like your idea to get the flaps in unison, and lock it in place.

[@col925]

Thanks for this idea as it allows to fine tune the flame to neutral/carburising at lower gas pressure setting

[@FireCreekForge]

You bet! thanks for watching

[@serenelychaotic]

Fuckin brilliant. Proud I managed to build my 1st frosty-T burner today. But hadn’t at all considered carburizing, neutral, and oxidizing flames nonetheless the idea I could control which 1 I’m outputting. Great vids!

[@glasspar63]

hey what I did was drill hole in top edge of Tee and thread it for machine screw and lock nut on mine

[@watahyahknow]

if you dont need to adjust the burner once its set you could use a treaded pipe (think they sell those for lightfittings ) where the gas goes in the T pipe mount mount a wide washer behind the mig tip , when you need to adjust it you basicly screw the migtip with the washer toward the ventury pipe and close up the ventury with it once its set you can lock the thing up with a bilt on the outside and hook the gasline back up

[@cbcothren]

looked like you could have used a 90 degree elbow instead of a tee. Even if you had to go with a 1 1/4' elbow. They even make them with a hole already. Then you could simply add a ball valve to control the air flow.

[@allanhigh1881]

I cant get it to burner to work right in the forge but it works good out of the forge

[@FireCreekForge]

if you email me some pics of your setup I may be able to help

[@trevorjonasen3251]

I changed my mind about the flare, it isn't venturi its the opposite of the other end. Slowing the mix down and holding the flame instead of blowing it off the end. Sorry for the rant and late reply.

[@FireCreekForge]

Controlling the velocity; that makes sense. I think that's what you're talking about? I may be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, lower velocity could still allow more air (oxygen) in than you need for the burn, which would produce an oxidizing flame. This was my concern, as having an oxidizing atmosphere in the forge is not ideal. Holding the flame is one thing, the type of flame you produce is another. Also, it seems simpler to me to not have to fiddle with the jet depth. I'm certainly no expert on forge burners, the only reason I labeled it as a better frosty t is because despite the adjustments you might be able to do on the original design, there is no way to actually limit the amount of air / oxygen that enters. Thanks for the interaction and watching the channel!

[@trevorjonasen3251]

@@FireCreekForge Whatever works best for an individual most definitely. And I hear you now on the title, was just curious. Anyway that's the science of it. Like I say if a guy doesn't want to mess with the initial tune then choke is the ticket. But the depth is what controls "volume" of air not the velocity if you don't use a choke. PSI will control velocity. The openings in the t will only let in as much air as is pulled in. I was quite intrigued out how these types of burners work once I started to delve into the fluid dynamics portion of the build. I'm glad it's working for you, there's always another way to skin a cat. Look forward to seeing the rest of the build.

[@FireCreekForge]

@@trevorjonasen3251 somebody posted the instructions, and you're right. The only limitation seems to be that once the burner no is adjusted per the original design, you can't adjust again it if needed.

[@joebloggs6556]

try 6" pipe instead of 8"

[@michaelmajor5321]

You made that way harder than it had to be man. Could have screwed the flaps that control air directly to the surface it lays on. Then just move it forward and backwards from the screw

[@IsraelLidsky]

I'm currently parting out my own burner design based on ronreil.abana.org/design2.shtml and www.instructables.com/id/how-to-build-a-gas-forge-burner/ There is an advanced parallel fuel system that lets you put your forge into "idle mode" while you have your metal out, I'm going to concoct this (ronreil.abana.org/idle-full.jpg) into a T-burner. I purchased the tapered welding tips noted in the sites.. I have a question regarding expanding the inlets. What happens if you had a 4-way between your inlet T and your 8" pipe? You would have 4x the inlet option if you wanted (which you could plug to 2 whenever. Would that allow you to run more propane pressure for a larger neutral flame and higher heat without much size increase? Potentially useful to achieve heating of greater forge volume with fewer burners. Would that allow for a super-oxygenated, high heat flame? Would the latter be good for anything, like melting metal with appropriate surface flux? My plan is to convert a water heater to 2x forges, as a 44"Lx16"D might be excessive.

[@trevorjonasen3251]

May I ask why you are not building this from the directions? I have 3 T burners and they work quite well. In this temp I have to choke mine a bit but adjusting your orifice length gets you set without needing a choke when warmer out. Also once it's in the forge it really does act differently. However I do like the choke set up you made it looks nice and smooth.

[@FireCreekForge]

I haven't actually seen the original directions, there's probably additional useful info. But I do enjoy learning about all this. But I don't understand how adjusting the jet depth would control amount of air / oxygen flow...?

[@chrisjohnson6018]

@@FireCreekForge I would think it is the nature of a venturi, placement of the orifice determines how much air your scavenging. I have no proof of this just think it makes since. Thanks for the video .

[@trevorjonasen3251]

@@FireCreekForge These work on Bernuili's principal instead of Venturi's. Bernuili's is that a fluid entering a narrower cross section will speed up creating negative pressure in the original larger cross section. The negative pressure acts as a vacuum pulling in air and pulling it down the mixing tube behind it. I believe the correct term is "jet enducer" as the jet of propane is what is controlling the air flow. So the closer the orifice is to the throat of the mixing tube the less transition from big to small so less suction. And reverse the further away the tip is. The starting depth of the orifice should be 1.5X the radius of the mixing tube for starters and then you trim it shorter as you need to get the FA balanced out. If you have a full length mig tip n there then you may not have tapped the fitting down deep enough. Your choke plates solve that problem as you can reduce air manually but if tuned right and I struggle with that at my altitude you should never have to change anything after that. Everyone calls non blower burners venturis, I believe that because the industrial ones are venturi burners and they work kinda opposite. You make a restriction in a pipe then flare it out and a negative pressure builds on the downside of the restriction pulling air and fuel down faster. The coupler/thread protector acts as a mini venturi as the stream of air and and propane enter a larger cross section they slow down and kind of hold the flame. I could be off A little here so don't quote me please. I gleened most of this from the I Forge Iron forum. You did a fine job and those choke plates seem to work I was mainly curious what you meant by better and if you never seen the original plans and only other you tube videos you did great as yours doesn't scare me now that you dropped that reducer expander section. I have to come back and check out your forge build video soon.

[@henkjacobs4033]

Why not just put two taps on to regulate the air. Don't know if it will work. Just asking

[@rogerbarrett2237]

What happened to part 3 of the video?

[@FireCreekForge]

The next video is under the forge build. Thanks for watching!

[@4110mahindra]

Read the instructions: www.blacksmither.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/T-Burner-Directions-finished-1.pdf

[@FireCreekForge]

Cool, thanks for posting that. Sounds like if you don't need to ever adjust to a carburizing flame, you wouldn't need to add the air intake control, which is probably most of us...

[@4110mahindra]

@@FireCreekForge I do like your air choke system though. nice work.