BUILD A BETTER "FROSTY T" FORGE BURNER!!! Part 1

[@eliasmwape5449]

Simple and straight forward. Thank you. It helped me do my burner cheaply after many failures using other methods.

[@duanecjohnson]

Hi Fire Creek Forge: I just want to add a bit of light to the reasoning behind the chosen dimensions for this class of burner and where the flame burns. Different fuels have particular "Critical Flame Velocities". I.e. the flame can only move at specific rate. If the gas velocity is lower than the "Critical Flame Velocities" it will advance. 1. The 3/4" fuel mixing pipe has a fairly high gas velocity. The gas velocity is high enough so the flame cant enter it because the gas is moving faster than the "Critical Flame Velocity", which keeps the mixing chamber relatively cool. 2. If you add a flair, or "Flame Catcher", at the end of the mixing chamber the velocity is reduced in the flair to below the "Critical Flame Velocity" and it advances to where the gasses entered it. 3. Many don't use a flair in their forges and just let the gases enter randomly where the work is. I believe this is a mistake as more complete combustion happens in the flame catcher. Incomplete combustion products at high temperatures tend to contaminate the the work. 4. Smaller jet sizes with higher LPG pressures tend to increase the gas velocity and produce more turbulent mixing. A good thing! 5. The choke is very important to get the correct ratio of fuel to air mix, the "Stochiometric Ratio". Proper mixtures makes the flame burn hotter which reduces unwanted combustion products. 6. I think the reason you couldn't light the 1" pipe after the expander fitting is it was gas velocity was above the "Critical Flame Velocity". This pipe I.D. is quite a bit smaller than the I.D of the expander. Try to get a larger expander to allow a larger exit pipe. [e-mail]

[@FireCreekForge]

Thank you for the more in-depth info!

[@brettphillips3091]

Thank you for the breakdown, that explains some other pressure/volume/ orifice sizing issues i'm pinning down.

[@duanecjohnson]

Hi Brett Phillips; Let go a bit deeper! The place where the flame is caught is where gas velocity matches the "Critical Flame Velocity". Its also the location where the burned gasses do even more expansion due to the great rise in temperature. 1. The blue color is about 1800K (1500C, 2700F). Lets assume the inlet gasses are at 293K (20C, 68F). The gas expansion ratio is about 1800K/293K = 6/1. The burned gasses are now moving very fast down the exhaust pipe. 2. Due to the rapid expansion we hear a loud roar. This is sound traveling down the pipe at the "Speed of Sound" in the hot gasses. As the sound pulse exits the pipe there is a transition to the open and some of the sound will be reflected back down the exhaust pipe back to the flame front. 3. Sound is essentially compression/expansion of the gasses. As the sound pulse hits the flame front compression occurs causing the intake gases to combust even faster, making another pulse traveling down the pipe. And repeat. 4. This looks a lot like a "Pulse Jet Engine". Very loud. 5. To make things much quieter smooth gradual transitions from the mixing chamber to combustion chamber and from the combustion chamber to forge can break up the sharp transitions and reduce the noise considerably. See how this guy makes transitions: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6aYhoWLfb-bfdU 6. Ok this is much harder to do but the whole mixing chamber and combustion chamber could be made in one piece by gradually increasing the inside area all the way from the jet to the exit. This shape is not a cone its a shape of constantly increasing area. By eliminating sharp transitions the noise should be greatly decreased along with cleaner combustion gasses. [e-mail]

[@Noahs_Corner]

it pulls the air in before igniting, and it is pulled in due to lower pressure, but its more because the bernoulli effect, where you reduce the diameter, increasing the velocity creating low pressure in the tube, pulling air in through the T to mix with the propane.

[@mackdog3270]

LoL I agree. I love the smell of cutting oil. Though lately, I've had the irresistible urge to sniff axle grease. It's weird.

[@billsiegel1783]

At the end of the flare and the reason you couldn’t put an extension on it is because you reduced the size of the flare. So you increase the velocity and even at 2 pounds of pressure it was blowing out the flame. To add an extension I would TIG weld something that has the same inside diameter of the flare. But I’ve noticed don’t ever take the threads off the outside edge of that bell flare. The flame will be unstable. I use a welding tip that’s 0.40. Also I take the welding tip and drill out most of the length of that 0.40. So the configuration just looks like a jet at the end of the tip of the welding tip. That size burner I’d like to have at least 7 to 8 inch main pipe of 3/4 pipe. My burner can shoot almost a 3 foot flame. Are used to heat up panels on aluminum boats in the winter before welding. The only way you do decide to drill the hole for the jet. Is the use a short pipe and check it up at a lathe so that the hole is centered exactly in the center. I hope this helps, good video!

[@yuvrajrana5853]

The best and simple just the information I was looking for,thanks for sharing 👍

[@peterabbe7752]

When I made my Frosty T’s I drilled my T through the open 3/4 “ opening with a close x close nippel to help ensure it was centered. All three work very well . They are all .035 jet size . The jet was trimmed to be midway in open 1” inlet in two of them and left I untrimmed , they seem

[@peterabbe7752]

They seem to work equally. All need 3/4 to 1” flare to hold flame. Maybe my new crucible will hold flame without the flare.

[@andrewpage8972]

If venturi burners had to be lit and burning to function why does my glass vacuum aspirator work? The passage of the gas jet creates the pressure differential, sucking in O2 in the air thus completing ze triangle when you lit it.

[@FireCreekForge]

The Venturi burner is a particular example of the Bernoulli principle. The aspirator works off the Bernoulli principle but is not using the Venturi affect. Hopefully that makes sense.

[@ShortyMuscles]

The burner needs the flare out from the reducer in order to get the venturi affect while outside of a forge. With the nipple attached to the end your narrowing the output and the flow isn't the same.

[@hippie-io7225]

Links to the materials and tools you used would be greatly appreciated (and garner you more viewers) ! Thank you for researching this topic.

[@yertelt5570]

Actually just a parts list so you can go to your local hardware store, online suppliers don't sponsor your kids little league team.

[@hughlink7341]

Did you ever one of Paul Pintos forced air ribbon burners. They work great

[@FireCreekForge]

Yeah i would like to build a ribbon burner some day

[@hughlink7341]

@@FireCreekForge his are so easy to make no refractory

[@CitizenSmith50]

You can buy the complete burner ready-made on ebay from China for about $36 or $38US and save all the time messing around and trying to get correct drillholes and proper ratios etc! Ones with air intake controls cost slightly more.

[@E-E.ADVENTUREGEARS]

THANKS FOR THE CLEAR EXPLANATION, IF POSSIBLE COULD YOU PLEASE LIST ALL THE PARTS IN THE DESCRIPTION

[@WALLACE7084]

What is the diameter of the flame end of the burner the flared part, outside.

[@FireCreekForge]

probably 1.25" - 1.5"

[@WALLACE7084]

@@FireCreekForge is that the outside measurement.

[@FireCreekForge]

@@WALLACE7084 yes in actual practice i took off the flare and the openings in the forge wall insulation act as a flare basically, works great

[@AdamTheSaint]

I'm thinking if you choked the air at the intake when lighting the longest version, it probably would've lit. Good video though, I'm thinking about changing gears on my build and going from the Reil EZ burner to either Frosty's tee, or a sidearm. The forge is a slim 1/4 keg with, if my math is right, 785ci of space after all the insulation that I put in it.

[@FireCreekForge]

You're right about that. In part 2 it works with the air intake control system.

[@chrisbassmansamis]

Or just reduce the fuel pressure on startup. It’s too much fuel pressure and it is not allowing the flame to establish. Causing it to move away from the 1 inch pipe.

[@n8mail76]

I see that you're close to 100k. I'll sub for that.

[@FireCreekForge]

Thank you!

[@kennymiller4428]

general rule of thumb for pipe taps is 6 threads from the top of the tap, then check with a fitting.

[@FireCreekForge]

Thanks for the tip, and thanks for watching!

[@santoshmane3383]

Well explained thanks .What is the number of mig tip?

[@FireCreekForge]

Thanks! .025 I believe

[@tarts9767]

Thanks a lot for this very informative video, I`m just "wrestling" with my freshly built burner and I just can not get the proper flame out of it. As it seems the problem lies in the outlet part of my burner ! First thing tomorrow morning I´ll buy myself a 3/4 to 1" reducer to that burner end.

[@FireCreekForge]

Thanks! Glad I can be of help as I learn this stuff too!

[@rickbrixon8577]

what type regulator do you have. I have same problem and it seems from youtube research that I need to use my high pressure regulator. The current one maxs at 20 psi

[@HDAWG350]

Can you use an ordinary regulator from a bbq or do you need a specific one? Asking because my burner is very weak

[@FireCreekForge]

Probably not, BBQ regulators are permanently set at a very low pressure that won't be adequate for a forge burner

[@Snowcube]

You will need a 0-20 or 0-30 PSI regulator. If you have only one burner, a 0-20 will be fine.

[@peterabbe7752]

What you need can be ordered from Home Depot. 0-30 psi reg.

[@6lr6ak6]

My regulator is 4 bar, what flame would be achieved

[@FireCreekForge]

I'm sorry I don't know what a 4 bar is..

[@gabrielebiamino9129]

Beautiful, I want to do it, you could not give me the list of components, because the translation of the subtitles is not very precise ... Thanks, do you think it can also go well to heat a oven?

[@sstanikmas107]

Can we get a parts list since the links aren't working anymore?

[@markthornhill519]

Why not just use a cross. No drilling on the top of the Tee. Just curious. If that would work

[@FireCreekForge]

That could work but would probably place your jet further from the top of the Venturi than it should be, and thereby affect operation. You could add an extension though I guess.

[@billsiegel1783]

I found that the thread pattern from each side of a crossed tube is still not exactly lined up for the center. But really good thought!

[@scart121]

Can you provide the type of regulator you are using for the propane tank.

[@FireCreekForge]

Thanks for watching! That regulator is old and I'm not sure where to get it, but you can get an equivalent here: firecreekforge.com/blacksmithing%2Fknife-gear

[@nateand3]

Ok this one is obviously a little different than the video i just watched. I'm not finished with this one yet, but is this one or the one i commented on like 10 minutes ago the better? I'll be checking back soon. However that may be tomorrow lol to see what you say because I'm seriously about to start the burener. Then ima start on the forge. Idk, that might be backwards, but I'm N8 and that's how i do things. You already know that I love your channel and have much respect....even if i come off like an idiot

[@nateand3]

Another question, u said that tip should be good for your elevation. Did you have to change it up when you moved to Texas?

[@FireCreekForge]

@@nateand3 I like the frosty T burner better. We're at 3600 feet here on the cap rock so close enough to the previous elevation for the burner to work fine.

[@ronaldfkoreck7502]

The tolerance Range for it's dimensions Accepted value

[@nateand3]

Judicious grinder work lol back to the video

[@JeffsTrades]

Your 1/8 flare is supposed to point down...

[@jean-yvesbisson8371]

Witch is the diameter of de jet ?

[@FireCreekForge]

.025 inches

[@jean-yvesbisson8371]

@@FireCreekForge tank y ou ! On my gaz tip i drilled 1 mm it look like too much ? I 'll drill larger to fix à contac tip on rend. Tank y ou vert match !

[@jean-yvesbisson8371]

Thank you very mutch ! IT WAS THE CORRECTER

[@FireCreekForge]

@@jean-yvesbisson8371 that's great!

[@FireCreekForge]

@@mytapster the brass fitting is tapped for the mig tip. The details are explained in the video

[@hickdl]

What is your altitude? I'm planning on the .035 tips.

[@FireCreekForge]

I'm at 2500'. My understanding is you would want a larger jet size the higher you are, to compensate for the diminished pressure.

[@hickdl]

@@FireCreekForge I'm at 650' I guess i'll just have to try and see what works best. GREAT videos btw.

[@FireCreekForge]

Thank you!

[@levi743]

What would you recommend at 5,000 feet

[@flyercurt]

drill press spindle doesnt look vertical not 90deg.

[@FireCreekForge]

I checked it, about as close as a 60 year old drill press can be... Probably the angle of the shot..

[@karlbe8414]

You want to get past the tapered section of the tap...

[@IsraelLidsky]

Your instructions helped get me some key details on the fly. I'd never tapped brass or black pipe before, and your measurements really helped! I'm not done with my full forge project yet (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIe8fHh_rNiNlc0), but I wanted to share here what I put together. This Frosty T burner is impressive!

[@FireCreekForge]

Great, I'm glad it helped!

[@isobelle-hepsyjones3300]

Yo first like here😀

[@markmitchell2794]

Less talk , more action

[@FireCreekForge]

Yeah i hear you, this is an earlier video, hopefully I've gotten better.

[@nateand3]

You're doing fine brother. Ol girl was just onher period

[@ريتاجالناشري-ل7ح]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 👍 ⚘

[@archerkn2413]

4:15 That is NOT how it works!

[@robchapman3681]

buy a striker and save your fingers from getting burned!!!

[@FireCreekForge]

I know, right?

[@lynnmarkle6145]

Glad you like to make videos. Maybe go to IForgeIron and read Frostys actual posts. It will remove a lot of the dangerous things that are in this video

[@FireCreekForge]

Thanks for watching!

[@hueyyukon8143]

Imperial, LOL

[@Munzer1977]

25 minutes to make a hole.. Seriously.!

[@hippiewrathchildz]

This is the most complicated burner build I have ever seen. Why???

[@mikethomas4582]

your too long winded. talk less too many side stories