Build Review --RETROL HM-01 7cc Model Hit and Miss 4-stroke Horizontal Internal Combustion Engine

[@joepie221]

Greetings everyone, and thanks for all the comments. To address a few popular comments.....This model was built per the manufacturers instructions. The oil holes in the bearing caps are shown to be positioned on top, although being on the bottom makes sense too. But remember, an access hole can also act as a drain. As for the constant spark, the cam behind the timing gear drives a block that breaks a set of points and opens the ignition circuit. I'm guessing that eliminates the possibility of the electrical continuity you would need to produce a spark.

[@mealex303]

Joe is making a fidget type ring with gears or something else to spin with your thumb something you may do one day?

[@jerrygrahn8144]

Thank you and have a great day🇺🇸

[@10-4CodyWade]

Saturday night I got my Labrador Retriever by my side and a new Joe Pie video to watch. Life is great.

[@mrc1539]

Joe, I own and display hit n miss engines at shows and and participate in farm shows for school kids . A hit n miss engine speed is controlled by a governor which holds the exhaust valve open during the Miss cycle. The engine can’t build compression therefore coasts until the engine slows enough for the governor to release the latch on the exhaust valve letting the engine build compression and then fire. They were used because they were very economical but had the disadvantage of not having a constant speed. They were used for running pumps , crème separators or anything that did not need a constant speed . During the same time period they also made throttle governed engines that were used to run machinery that needed a constant speed . Hope this helps and glad to see the model build 😊 !

[@garysmith9772]

New Holland engine

[@AlanGorlick]

Agree re the main benefit being fuel economy. The model I've built to Dave Kerzel's design (see link in my previous comment) will run for an hour on 7ml of 98 octane petrol at about 500rpm. It has 3 to 4 miss cycles for every firing cycle so it only fires every 8 to 10 crank revolutions. They rely on flywheel inertia to keep driving the load between firing strokes. The "pop tick tick tick" cadence is pure music to followers of the type. Some types also have a "spark saver" mechanism that interrupts the ignition system while the exhaust valve is latched open, saves the batteries if they are using a buzz coil ignition. Also agree re the big end bearing is still way too tight on Joe's model. If you hold the con rod horizontally it should rotate down under its own weight. And also agree that the exhaust valve clearance must be set when the follower is on the lowest point of the cam profile.

[@michaelrogocz1160]

Good to see you again Sir.

[@brianleduc2244]

These are great kits to spend time with the grandkids as thay learn the past ,,, YOU GOT to run it that's the best part of the build as it opens smalleyes makes small ear to ears smiles and laughter!,,, even for old bag of bones like us 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@brianleduc2244]

Just add!!!! If you going to run it adjust your valve ,,!,, the spark doesn't not stop,,,,,, it the exhaust valve that remains open while the engine is coasting ,,,the rod does that while your balls out

[@coilmotorworks]

Another way to think on the holes in the bearings. If they are pointed down, the groove will fill with oil and act as a reservoir. Up, a bubble can form in the hole of the bearing and the oil just fills the groove. If that latter happens the bearing could run dry. Great video! CMW

[@Unrivaledanime]

We are all kids at heart

[@stumccabe]

Thanks Joe, I'd love to see this little hit and miss engine running!

[@royreynolds108]

The small notch in the pulley on the side of the flywheel is for a rope with a knot to be used for wrapping around the pulley to start the engine. Our lawn mower when I was growing up had a Briggs & Stratton engine which had a similar arrangement for starting it. This was before the days of recoil-starting attachments. The taper of that notch will indicate the running direction of the engine. The knot is placed in the notch and the rope is wound around the pulley such that as the rope is pulled, the crankshaft is turned and when the rope is pulled off of the pulley, it will just slide out of the notch.

[@glennwright9747]

I once had a 2 stroke Iron Horse lawn mower that you wrapped the rope and gave a good pull. No recoil mechanism on it. Mower had been my grandfather’s, and I used it until mid 80’s, when everything was worn out and deck rusted away.

[@StuartsShed]

Great to see you posting again. I believe that PM Research and Stuart both offer machined versions of some (not all I think) of their engines for those who don't have machine tools - just another option. That is one good looking model though - fit and finish looks pretty good (mostly).

[@duron700r]

Neat video with good tips! For those tips, I thank you! Someone needs to drag you to a threshing or gas engine show. You'll understand more about gas engines, whether hit & miss or throttle governed engines.

[@martineastburn3679]

I like the looks of these kits. The two Dad got and I got 20 years later were make everything from scratch. Machine from RAW castings on some items. Mine was a double action 2 spark plugs that the piston (one) get driven back and forth and the fuel was propane. I love that kit you got.

[@angelramos-2005]

Nice model.Thank you,Joe.

[@LordOfNihil]

when i was an assembly tech i always used to say i could read pictures in 12 languages. very good way to convey information to spacial oriented thinkers that do this job. some of mom's dollhouse kits, which i sometimes "help" her with (read: do it for her), favor written instructions with no pictures and they are a lot more difficult to follow.

[@howardosborne8647]

Very much the same thing with a set of CAD drawings and a 3d CAD model....much easier to follow than written assembly instructions no matter what language the reader speaks.

[@sparkyprojects]

Saw someone else build and run this kit With a little more thought, the wires from the switch could have been right angled down, they could also have both been red, it's only a switch, polarity not important I was also going to mention the jack screws when you were trying to align the wheel, it's what they have on taperlock pulleys for motors, glad you mentioned it later ;)

[@howardosborne8647]

A taperlock is exactly what this is. On a number of the miniature hit and miss engines built from plans they do include a couple of puller/release screw threads.

[@glencrandall7051]

I agree, it's a beautiful kit. thank you for sharing.🙂🙂

[@tompekarna]

To gaze upon these models is fun, BUT the real charm is in watching them run, bang, bang, bang, then coast, coast coast. Just loverly.

[@joepie221]

I do agree.

[@TradeWorks_Construction]

Great video and very honest review. One thing I think could have been done differently was the orientation of the bearing sleeve oil hole. Rather than facing it straight up inline with the oiler cup, rotating it 180° to point Down could have been more beneficial for those looking to actually operate the model. My reasoning: Since the bushing has that reduced center section section going around the circumference, oil will fill in this area and gravity feed to the bottom pushing up through the oiling hole. When the hole is pointed straight up, all the oil that flows around the bushing would get “stored” in that channel w/o any way to flow to the rotating crankshaft. Capillary action could still pull some of oil in through the top but my primary point is the oil above the hole in the oiler cup will lubricate but some of the oil below the hole wouldn’t. If the bushing was sintered bronze then the oil would still be able to permeate on through and migrate to the rotating crank shaft but with solid brass/bronze this would not be the case. How much trapped oil might be negligible but speaking strictly from a comparison I think one yields a better outcome. That said, since you won’t be running the model it’s a completely moot point but for others that will, I think making an addendum to the video would be worth considering. [Assuming I’m not making a blatant oversight, missing a subtly that was only apparent while assembling or creating a detrimental outcome] I Enjoy your whiteboard explanations a lot and often reference your videos to learn techniques or gain clarity on a subjects, thanks for creating them.

[@jeffbluejets2626]

Hi Joe, remember the tight con rod fit as well in your feedback summary. With ic engines, usual to have at least 3 thou clear for oil, with our pylon 2 strokes, 6 thou is a necessity otherwise conrods tend to exit the crankcases. Cheers Jorgo...ps...much respect for your site and the knowledge you pass on...thanks again.

[@robertwragg9224]

Joe when I was a lad here in UK, used to go to farm. The farmers had one started it by setting fire to litmus paper or a bit of rag . Cracking it round till started. It was run on all sorts of cheap fuel, hope this helps...

[@johndevries8759]

I enjoyed watching you assemble this little engine. Thanks for sharing your experience with what looks like an awesome kit.

[@stephenrose8188]

Very nice video Joe, almost as good as the stuff you make fella! Lovely model.

[@natesteiner5460]

So as you have no doubt figured out, the engine "misses" by holding the exhaust valve open. This acts as a compression release so the engine will spin with basically no resistance until the speed drops and the exhaust valve is released to close and the engine draws in fuel (intake valve opens by vacuum), and "hits." Most full size engines used magneto or buzz-box ignition systems which were always hot.

[@ettoredicarlo1679]

Top job again

[@adalberteinstin5137]

Very nice engine! I think having seen you oriented the oil feed holes in the main bearings on top. Think about orienting them oposite (180 degrees) of the point of maximum bearing load. This would be towards the cylinder. The groove will allow the oil to flow from the feeder to the holes. Now the orientation is 90 degrees. Wish you lots of fun with this jewel of engine!

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

I have seen one of those someplace before, but I don't remember where. I like lots of instructions a cook book if you know what I mean. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@allanrichards3752]

I have an actual Amanco hit and miss engine and they are fascinating to watch running. They usually miss when the exhaust valve is held open until the engine slows. This looks a well made kit but there are two things that I thought about. The first is the use of modern cap head screws. My original engine has square head bolts and nuts like the head of coach bolts. The second thing is a rubber O ring for a piston ring. I imagine this won't last that long but I suppose its easy to replace.

[@courier11sec]

That's a killer piece. Going by the rest of it, you must have gotten a Friday afternoon unit as those rolling marks and absent chamfers just don't add up with the rest of the kit. I can't imagine not running that thing. I don't think I could just keep it as stationary knowing I can make it go bang. 😄

[@patrickbeaumier8616]

Nice model. 👌👌👌

[@tonypike5785]

I wanted to hear it run

[@kensherwin4544]

Look at the rubber piston ring. This model can't run.

[@dbmartin60]

I bought mine at sterling kit,I finally got it and I got it as a kit as well,Unfortunately the head and shaft for the timing gear was missing,still trying to get it sorted out.I bought the base with the gas tank and battery box,Very nice kit,just wish mine did not have the missing parts.

[@george-b3i-d2d]

oh come on Joe.. you will want to make this thing run!!! so order the sparkplug make a nice base and let us watch!!! Thanks!

[@ronwilken5219]

I first encountered this type of engine on an oil/gas well near lake Erie in Ontario, Canada. They used the sour gas off the well for fuel. Sounded really strange "running". More like gasping for its last breath, but they seem to run forever. Only maintenance the crews ever did was to keep the oilers filled on a regular basis.

[@tonywilson4713]

For everyone interested Andrew Whale (Learning Turning Metal) built a Jerry Howell (original designed) Hit & Miss engine all the way from scratch. He references Joe Pie in many of his videos. He's NOT a pro-like Joe, but for all those with limited shop skills and experience his channel is worth the time.

[@jaguar36]

Just a heads up, this engine was designed by David Kerzel, who has offered free plans for it for 20 years or so. I built one from scratch a few years back and it was a fun project! Its a shame they used his design and didn’t even give him any credit.

[@stumccabe]

I assume it's made in China - they don't seem to have any qualms about stealing intellectual property.

[@howardosborne8647]

This design is also very similar to another miniature hit & miss engine called the 'Farm Boy' It was designed by the late Jerry Howell and plans are still available to this day.

[@howardosborne8647]

@@stumccabe David Kerzell's plans are free to download so it is hardly stolen intellectual property.

[@waynemontgomery8484]

when I was a kid I remember these hit and miss engines in the oilfield powering jack pumps ,they could run on wellhead gas.

[@ChrisB257]

Looks a super kit... nicely presented. Great to see the build Joe - a thing of beauty :)

[@dannywilsher4165]

Hello Chris!!!

[@ChrisB257]

Hey Danny - :)

[@Enigma-Sapiens]

That is so cool, thanks Joe!

[@christurley391]

Thanks again

[@halorail]

Thanks

[@jamesnorman8489]

When I went to "The University" 50 years ago, there were still a lot of these engines running pump jacks in the oil fields west of Austin. Because of their low speeds and massive construction, they could run unattended (off of methane from the wells) unattended for a week, and minimal maintenance for decades.

[@jamesdavis8021]

You need the ignition coil also.Kind of like the buzz box on a model T Ford,only much smaller

[@jamesdavis8021]

If I built one of those, I could not live with myself if I didn’t run it😂

[@jamesdavis8021]

I didn’t see a oil hole for the connecting rod journal

[@howardosborne8647]

@@jamesdavis8021 Many of the full sized engines of this type have an oil cup included on the big end of the con rod for drip feed lube.

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

Very cool model Joe 👍👍 Thanks for sharing...

[@davidrule1335]

29:50Befor starting, there's a mechanism holding the EXT valve open. That slows down the RPM'S.

[@MichaelMoranGearHead]

You could get the wheels off the tapered shaft without damaging anything by making a pair of opposing U shaped wedges out of soft metal and squeezing them together. Basically, Jacobs Tapor wedges designed for that specific situation.

[@jamesbooth3360]

When I was a kid, things like this (hit and miss engines) were on old washing machines out on peoples porches. Electricity had made them obsolete when my parents were kids, but some were still around.

[@howardosborne8647]

The most common unit is the Maytag engine. It is a small hit&miss 2 stroke engine. These little engines are still seen at stationary engine shows/rallies.

[@thomasbraeking6225]

@@howardosborne8647 "Hand Tool Rescue" does a restore on a hit-and-miss- AND the washing machine it goes to!

[@thomasbraeking6225]

Check out "Hand Tool Rescue" for his hit-and-miss and washing machine.

[@mattomon1045]

great kit

[@karlgoebeler1500]

That Texas Super bull story is correct. Next door neighbor had one, did not know it, the cows were out and when I turned the corner I learned what a squirrel felt like looking up at double barrel shotgun. Did not need diapers but I had to check to be sure.

[@anthonycash4609]

The game warden showed up to the old farmers house, he told the farmer he had poachers on the other side of his pasture and that he was going across the pasture to get them. The old farmer told him I wouldn't do that if I were you. The game warden told him you see this badge , it says I can do what I want, so he took off across the pasture after them to only find out it was a raging bull in there also, while running for his life he was calling to the farmer for help so the farmer said show him your badge that says you can do what you want.lol just an old farmers joke after your comment it came to mind.

[@TheEvertw]

Nice model! First time I met one of these machines, I was attracted by intermittent loud bangs that seemed to have some pattern to them yet were irregular. That specimen would have a single ignition and then spent like half a minute before it fired again. It lacked a muffler...

[@MichaelCarter]

If I got into this hobby 35mm film hand cranked projectors would be my focus

[@paulsto6516]

Good show, Joe! 👍

[@georgedreisch2662]

Not certain that you want the oil port in the main bearing, located vertically under the oil cup, as I think the annular groove on the outside of the bearing acts as a reservoir, to gravity feed the port located at a lower level, like, 6:00.

[@ypaulbrown]

good evening Joe, wishing you all the best....Paul in Florida

[@odd5hau]

i still drive that old Ford pickup!

[@thomasaltruda]

What a cute little model! That connecting rod bearing looks too tight to me.. perhaps it’ll UNloosen itself with a little running, but I would be afraid it’ll starve itself of oil being that tight..

[@byronwatkins2565]

The three clearance holes in the conical bushings could also be threaded to a larger screw to allow removal.

[@howardosborne8647]

Good point,but it may damage the lead in of the smaller threads as the larger 'puller' screws bear against the smaller diameter tightening/clamping screw thread holes.

[@claygormish4884]

Joe, Gary Martin at Martin Model sells a casting kit for a John Deere hit and miss. Would love to see you machine that one. It's going to be next winter's project for me. Thanks for the videos!

[@tietsevandorp7400]

Beautifull! What about the other valve? ? No rod, nothing?

[@claygormish4884]

Vacuum opens the intake side.

[@howder1951]

Thanks I was going to ask the same question.@@claygormish4884

[@magiclarry7688]

That is fascinating.

[@ramosel]

While the quality certainly seems pretty good on this little engine... in the hands of an 8 year old, I don't know that this would be any more fun than the Schumm/Esbit/Wilesco toys we had in the 60s/70s.

[@jounijarvinen8323]

What about the governor there seems to be any kind lingake for that?

[@Agnemons]

My take on the position of the oil holes on the main bearings would be that they should be on the bottom unless there are two holes on opposite sides. There is a oil groove on the bearing. If the hole is at the top the groove will fill with static oil that does nothing. With the oil hole on the bottom the oil that is in the groove can be used as a non visual oil resevoir with the oil wicking in until the oil level drops below the crank height. I also note that there is no valve train for the inlet? valve or is it intended to work as a poppit valve using suction to open the valve?

[@joepie221]

I went with the instructions.

[@ronwilken5219]

My question is where's the action for the inlet valve or does it rely on the vacuum generated by the downward (outward) stroke to draw fuel into the combustion chamber? Otherwise a well presented model, bar the couple of observations by the Master, Joe. The assembly of the "output" pulley onto the flywheel should probably be done after the flywheels have been timed to the crank shaft making access to the cones easier. You'd be able to get the edge of a knife blade under to prise them back from lock position in lieu of the suggested jack screws. In summary, "cute" comes to mind. Thanks Joe. Regards from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🇺🇦🕊️🇺🇲🤞

[@rossk4864]

Thank you for this great video! Living in bush Alaska, on the lower Yukon, I have seen a number of these, mostly powering pumps at old mine sites, and some restored and running at street fairs. I think most that I have seen were Fairbanks Morse, although I have seen at least one each Hercules and McCormick Deering. I believe you are going to sell a few of these for the sponsoring company.

[@joepie221]

They make nice models.

[@Nicolaj93Petersen]

I love this 🤩🤩🔥

[@richardwoodruff1732]

Perhaps the valve lash/clearance should be adjusted after the governor weight spring was installed, seems the governor may have been partly engaging and affecting the lash

[@dynamiteralph]

Joe, Here is the ignition kit, and yes, it is an accessory ... CDI Ignition with Spark Plug Starter Kit for RETROL HM-01 Hit and Miss Engine Model $39.99

[@jamesdavis8021]

Just a question.Wouldn’t it be better to put the oil holes on the bottom?My reasoning is that gravity will carry the oil through the outside groove,down to the oil hole in the bottom where,it will come up to the crankshaft.With the oil holes on the top,the oil that flows through the outside groove,has nowhere to go.

[@stevebosun7410]

Hi Joe, come on, get it running, you know you realy want to.

[@TheDagda1000]

So do we!

[@flightace1]

the hole in the bearing should be at the bottom, that way the grove acts lika a reservoar with oil and will not run out until all oil is gone,if the hole is in the top the oil in the grove will just sit there doing nothing,.

[@TomokosEnterprize]

Hey stranger, been wondering what you have been up to. Oh, my, , , This is a real beauty. As nice as this is a knowledge of physics, Power transmission and plain common sense is probably a good thing to know before diving into a wallet for this. The know how of millwright's as well. I totally agree about adding the push screws to the Allen type bushings making them more like Browning style. CERTAINLY NOT DODGE. They can be trouble before they are taken out of the box, No love lost there, LOL. I have been tracking your parcel and getting mixed answers. I hope it didn't get taken by the mail devil but if you have it kindly let me know. Have a great day and it's sure great to see you back with us again my friend.

[@joepie221]

Greetings my Canadian friend. No package yet. I'll keep ya posted.

[@TomokosEnterprize]

@@joepie221 Thanks. Have a great week.

[@putteslaintxtbks5166]

The hit and miss running, always seemed to not quite be running right, like an engine that was a bit flooded or something. It would be fun to see this model running. Quite an impressive model. The little oiler, that "smoke stake", the detail, it has to be ran at least once! How else can you know it's together right? Bring on the spark plug! Good day.

[@diggerdelaney]

This looks so much like the Hit and miss engine by Jerry Howell called the Farm Boy. That would be a great project for you all made from stock material.

[@davidcox692]

nice build joe

[@joepie221]

Thanks, its a nice kit.

[@russellmcclenning9607]

Joe check this link of my New Holland hit and miss running on camp stove fuel it is a fun model thank you for all you do for us guys that enjoy your channel.

[@zhengweiwang6235]

Last year，29th 11. I went the factory in Dongguan China which was producing these red engines.

[@mealex303]

always add oil even for test fits

[@Diesel8290]

Does it come with tools or do I have to buy little Allen keys

[@davidt8438]

Reminds me of the small model that disappeared in the 1964 George Pal movie The Time Machine.

[@jsteifel]

what about the other valve? no pushrod for that? Or is that a pressure relief valve?

[@duron700r]

That's the intake valve. Called automatic or atmospheric valves. The piston helps do the work. Imagine drawing a sip thru a straw, same thing only the cylinder gets fuel. Only when the exhaust valve is closed. Hit and miss theory.

[@brandontscheschlog]

Very cool! How do the conical bushings work?

[@Morkvonork]

They work like a collett chuck. They tighten arround the shaft as you press it into a conical bore on the flywheel.

[@aquilaaudax6033]

✋🏼🇦🇺👍🏼 Yeah! Welcome back

[@spehropefhany]

Maybe use the switch contacts to control a solenoid valve and run it from air.

[@kidkv]

As the points break, the spark fires.

[@sdrc92126]

Did you ever build the Red Baron Car Model with chromed helmet roof?

[@RichieCat4223]

I missed it, I guess the main bearing oil cups lubricate the rod journal?

[@Halli50]

What about the intake valve? Is it purely suction operated? No cam and rocker arm for that one - perhaps the exhaust "funnel" is some sort of a tuned exhaust the prevents the exhaust valve from being sucked open during the intake suction cycle...

[@kmoecub]

Yes. It's a poppet valve. Opens as the piston draws vacuum on the downstroke. The exhaust valve can't open on the intake stroke because the valve spring is heavy enough to more than overcome the vacuum made by the piston. The smokestack is just a smokestack.

[@anthonymiller8979]

Looks like the connecting rod has a fairly significant bend to the side. Wonder if this is causing some binding when assembled

[@joepie221]

It does look that way, but if the end features were done ( jigged and machined ) correctly, the outer surfaces have zero bearing on the function.

[@anthonymiller8979]

@@joepie221 True, If bent before machining the ends should be fine, if bent after, not so much.

[@GT40Nut]

How does the exhaust valve get opened?

[@PaulG.x]

I suspect you mean how does the intake valve get opened as it is the one with no obvious mechanical actuator. It is opened by atmospheric pressure when the piston is on the intake stroke and creates a vacuum in the cylinder.

[@Stirlingkit]

best!!!!

[@gracebarrykahn8757]

I believe it's where the expression "balls out" comes from.

[@wadecurrens3122]

Hello. My kit didn’t come with (or I lost it 😢)the collar for the governor. Any way you could get the measurements off of yours so I can machine a new one? Thanks

[@joepie221]

Stirlingkit will send you one.

[@NormanArthurSands]

Hi Mr Joe it mite not be a spark plug probley an igniter ?.

[@Driver944S]

Joe do let us know when you fix the index on the fly wheels........ I know that's gonna eat at yah LOL

[@joepie221]

It is.

[@BeeGeeTheImp]

nice

[@roberthiggins1142]

Great little kit, i only have one question how does the inlet valve open??

[@jamesdavis8021]

When the piston moves back,it creates a vacuum that opens the valve,drawing in the air/fuel mixture.When the piston reaches the bottom of the stroke,vacuum goes to zero and,the spring closes the valve.I hope that makes sense

[@howardosborne8647]

It is known as an 'atmospheric' inlet valve. The spring is very soft/weak and this enables the inlet valve to open when there is a partial vacuum inside the cylinder when the piston is on the downward inlet stroke. The valve will automatically open under atmospheric depression and admit fuel/air mixture into the cylinder.

[@roberthiggins1142]

Thank youfor that info @@jamesdavis8021

[@jamesdavis8021]

@@howardosborne8647 not much different than the inlet valves on the pulse jet engine of the German V-1 rocket.Same principle

[@paulsotheron710]

A ice looking mol. 👍

[@jerrygrahn8144]

Hello Joe, Great video sir.d I will be getting engine soon and was curious to know what oil you were using? Thank you, Jerry

[@joepie221]

It was 3 in 1 motor oil

[@jerrygrahn8144]

@@joepie221 thank you.🇺🇸

[@bRad73016]

What the heck operates the second valve????!!!! I agree with tomstrum6259: The con rod needs to be free with zero resistance I also agree with ALL THE OTHER guys - you need to run this baby!!!

[@joepie221]

Vacuum. I may fire it up.

[@machmat33]

Run it..... jeeze..... lol