BUILD UPDATE: Copper Ore Aquatuner Setup with Ethanol

[@Chikicus]

This discovery may be as impactful as the Rodriguez. Seriously, I'm amazed how we all have the same game, but you manage to find things nobody would ever think of. I will be using these builds to cool my ocean tank :)

[@lumaraw]

Thanks. :) But this is no new discovery. For me yes, but there have been people using this for years. i just now came up with my own design.

[@Spoonwood]

@@lumaraw Indeed. I remember Gearhead Gaming boiling ethanol with an aluminum ore aquatuner in some sandbox video a few years ago.

[@nazgu1]

What I find most amusing, is that this method has been available since forever, but somehow very few people paid any attention to it. I think it's partially because it is still (relatively) easy to get to plastics and steel, although some SO starting asteroids may be more difficult in that regard.

[@lumaraw]

Agreed. I think steel and plastic once you know how to get it is probably the better option. But since I only recently learned about the ethanol heat deletion I am experimenting with designs

[@Rig0r_M0rtis]

I hate getting plastic.

[@SpottedHares]

This is the same principle as a nuclear fallout cooler, but you know made of reasonable and realistic materials.

[@osconnise]

This is actually insane. Pre steel aqua tuner was thought to be a pipe dream

[@lumaraw]

Glad you like it :) You can also achieve that in a steam turbine Aquatuner setup by limiting the flow on the off side. I think I made a short about that once. Steel is often just much easier than trying to make it work without it.

[@JamesMadisonsSpiritAnimal]

Breakthroughs in science limitations. Damn

[@adrianperez8695]

You are absolutely spot on as to why one would use these. I made my own (suboptimal) versions of these in my radioactive world save. Thank you for this design, mine used a steel aquatuner, being able to do this with copper is going to allow me to build this much sooner.

[@fortheregm1249]

cooled down a magma biome with ethanol once. ( after nuclear waste ). gets everything down to a cool 60 c which is just perfect to prevent scalding.

[@GunGryphon]

This is a great little trick to keep in your back pocket, might help in a pinch.

[@Doomquill]

This is really cool. I mostly just love the color of the ethanol 😃

[@thienluong3796]

I love this so much. I really bad at game like this but love it so much. This is what I looking for

[@Fulz-751]

*mindblown* with Aluminium Ore you can just run Aluminium Pipes behind the Aqua Tuner in a 2x3 room and it runs @100% uptime *mindblown*

[@coconutcute712]

Hey luma, can a conduction panel transfer heat to a temp shift plate in a vacuum? If so, this could let you build an amazing rocket silo with 100% efficient exhaust capturing.

[@lumaraw]

I think it can i do have a tempshift plate somewhere behind one of those conduction panels in the lower left setup i think.

[@JamesMadisonsSpiritAnimal]

Me: "impossible" *Hears accent* Me 2 sec later: "i trust him, something about this guy invokes engineering competence...but i simply cant put my finger und it.."

[@lumaraw]

xD made me laugh

[@agsystems8220]

Why the metal tiles in the version with water in it? The idea is that liquid liquid heat transfer is vastly more effective than liquid solid tile interactions. Try just dumping some water in the other designs with no barrier. It won't get hot enough to turn to steam (and wouldn't matter if it did), even with the aquatuner running at 100%, so it doesn't need kept separate. I definitely think this is way to power intensive to be used like this though. Any space saved is going to be lost in power production, so it is almost certainly better to go with a more efficient design, even if considerably less powerful. You absolutely want to be using more than a 4' range, and that means 1kg liquid pipes and heat exchangers. If you can get it to 120C before boiling it then you will already have upped the heat deletion 10x per unit of heat transfer.

[@lumaraw]

I did that in around 10 other designs. Those all failed and were hence not even in the ranking. The issue is that water is lighter (less dense) than ethanol. so the ethanol want to be on the floor tiles. If we do not control the temperature now. To stop at 90 °C. Then the water will turn to steam and get deleted in a few cycles. Then you have a room without water anyways. If you DO control the heat. The water still got deleted. All the state changes and ethanol trying to occupy the lower floor tiles that the water tries to drop down to deleted all the water each time i tried it.

[@yjk92]

I'm interested to know how to get the most heat deletion out of the same power usage. How do you raise ethanol to 120C without it touching the cooling block and falling back down? How does the size of the design affect the efficiency?

[@lumaraw]

@@yjk92 The larger the difference in Special heat capacity the larger the heat creation/deletion. The best I can think of right now is probably Nuclear waste. The room size does matter. If it is too small you have a higher gas density/ gas flow speed making it harder to condense it. The vacuum comes from the very fast heat transfer to the gas surrounding the metal tiles immediately flashing it to liquid aggregate state. if your metal tiles get too warm or the transfer is too slow you will not get the vacuum. Benefits are probably not hating up the metal tiles unnecessary if you quickly condense the gas.

[@agsystems8220]

@@yjk92 1kg/s in a pipe doesn't state change, so if you put it through a liquid valve to limit it to that you can superheat it. It needs a completely different design. The size can affect the efficiency of the heat exchanger, and it can get quite bulky if you are wanting to run multiple pipes. The power is limited by the low flow rate, which the open design doesn't suffer from. Heat deletion is ~10% of heat applied to liquid ethanol, but when you use a counter flow heat exchanger most of the heat applied to the liquid in the pipes comes from the ethanol gas, rather than the aquatuner directly*. I didn't notice any deletion, but I didn't run my test that long, so maybe just missed it. The sheer amount of power involved makes the losses minimal in comparison, with their biggest impact being complexity of a top up mechanism. If you can get it working without anyway then I guess there is no point, but it is worth knowing how much more effective liquid liquid heat exchange is than any solid tile interaction. *Now that I think about it, it is only really the efficiency of the heat exchanger that makes a difference. You possibly could get the same effect even in the 4' normal range. Maybe a bead design? My quick experiments suggest it is hard to keep it stable, but it seems to work.

[@OddWorlderer]

I guess the devs made the aquatuner be able to built with ore because they wanted to see how far the players can go and think of how to utilize low overheat temps with industrial machinery.

[@keonwilson3505]

Ethanol heat deletion is finally getting attention

[@warchefseed]

There were some passive designs that are kinda enough for a base cooling.

[@lumaraw]

Of course. Maybe this one comes in a pinch at special circumstances. Most of the time other solutions are probably better.

[@NoMusiciansInMusicAnymore]

Very cool, So the difference in heat capacity is enough to delete the heat from cooling the liquid and cooling the AT cooling the liquid with enough left over to cool the base? Mind blown! I guess nuclear waste would be an amazing substitute for ethanol then?!?

[@lumaraw]

Yes Nuclear waste would be even more effective.

[@NoMusiciansInMusicAnymore]

@@lumaraw very interesting way to use the difference in SHC!

[@KEKS-ei2bc]

Would it be more inefficient to swap out the conduction panels with automation wire bridges because they would cost you only 5kg per bridge instead of 100kg of refined metal. Although i think conduction panels have 2x conductivity of the material it’s build of.

[@lumaraw]

It doesn't hurt including them. The Conduction panels are probably the best in conducting. They have a value of 120 thermal conductivity plus 100kg mass and I guess a hidden transfer mechanic or multiplier that i don't know of. But the other bridges are also very efficient, which is why i could leave the conduction panels out i the "cheap" version. The more bridges the better i guess :D

[@yjk92]

Have you tried mixing water and ethanol together? I found that even 1kg of water allows better conduction between AT and the liquid than spamming aluminum tempshift plates. And it kept the AT below 110C at all times. And the chamber can be 4 tiles shorter than what you have. It will not have a gradient of liquid and gas ethanol and instead all the ethanol will convert at the same time. The cooling effect should be the same, right?

[@lumaraw]

Hey i tried that; i just copy over the answer i gave to someone else in the comments that asked the same: I did that in around 10 other designs. Those all failed and were hence not even in the ranking. The issue is that water is lighter (less dense) than ethanol. so the ethanol want to be on the floor tiles. If we do not control the temperature now. To stop at 90 °C. Then the water will turn to steam and get deleted in a few cycles. Then you have a room without water anyways. If you DO control the heat. The water still got deleted. All the state changes and ethanol trying to occupy the lower floor tiles that the water tries to drop down to deleted all the water each time i tried it. I also thought it should work. And it probably WILL with crude oil, but that would defeat the purpose of this being a early cooling setup.

[@yjk92]

@@lumaraw since the ethanol state change happens 20 degrees below water's, as long as the thermal mass can take the heat spike of the AT, there shouldn't be steam ever. I was able to replicate the liquid deletion glitch and kepting increasing the amount of water. And at 370Kg per tile of water, I see zero liquid deletion after 5 cycles of 100% uptime. My design is 3 tiles wide btw.

[@twobitdork952]

Have you considered making a salt reactor? I remember brothgar trying back in the day and not getting it to be very efficient.

[@lumaraw]

I haven't actually. I write it down. Thanks!

[@SIZModig]

He got it to 300%, seems efficient to me? kzbin.info/www/bejne/npOrZKiFqahsbtksi=UWb3SXzK5nQ9jlAY

[@TheKlopka]

"Use this when you..." im going to use it in my next base regardless.

[@lumaraw]

Haha, Very good!

[@deilusi]

Well, ethanol is replacing the steam turbine, so more ethanol boiled and dropped, the more "cooling" can happen. this is yours OASIS map base chill spreading system.

[@lumaraw]

Hey deilusi, i think the Steam turbine is still more useful since you get alot of power back. Reducing the cooling cost in the process. This setup only uses power and gives nothing back. As to weather the amount matters: I tried the "more" ethanol version by having one with 200, 1000, and 4000 I didn't check completely scientifically of course :D What i noticed was: after a certain point is basically went asymptotical. I think that point is somewhere between 200 and 2000. anything more is just wasted material. Since we only have 1 heat and cooling source.

[@deilusi]

@@lumaraw 100% if you can afford steam, its 2 tiers better than this. This is either only for very hard scenario, where you die before getting steam, or when you want smaller chill, in tiny form factor. It can also boil itself if you have high heat input from base, so its not as universal as steam.

[@EloyLima1971]

Very nice!!!

[@her5157]

This is amazing 👏 bravo

[@stefanocau4652]

This setup is amazing for an oasis start with the heat all around. With the pips you could try to make ethanol quickly and use alluminium since there's more in the forest start so you have an early solution for the heat. After a while you can create a more classic design but this will be great for the early game Amazing work dude!

[@lumaraw]

How much wood would we need for 200kg of ethanol? Let me check: Ethanol Distiller Requires Lumber: -1000 g/s Effects Ethanol: +500 g/s So 400 seconds = 200kg Ethanol meaning 400kg of Lumber that is 4 Oakshells or 2 Branches of a Tree. (Each branch produces 300 kg Lumber according to the wiki ) That sound managable

[@dmcs2003]

Hi, thank you for the interesting video. Before I watched, but after reading the title, (sorry, ignored the using ethanol portion, my ADHD kicked in) I imagined this was for early game designs, since steel (in my mind) is more of a mid game resource. However I see you use the mid/late game liquid ethanol, since in most default play throughs, getting trees is really difficult. I have difficulties with heat with all of my starts. Do you have any designs of this cooling system with the normal resources you find in early game designs?

[@lumaraw]

There is a planet with liquid Ethanol pools. Not every Planet has them but some starts might. Not sure there are any alternatives besides Ethanol and nuclear waste. I only know of these two having different Special heat capacities in different aggregat states. There might be more but i don't know of any atm

[@dmcs2003]

@@lumarawI have no planets. Space mining is the last thing (late game) to do in my play thrus. There is no nuclear waste either.

[@lumaraw]

@@dmcs2003 Ah so no DLC. But you can still choose different Starts. There are many planets. Might be one has ethanol pools in the Base Game as well. Not sure though :/

[@VarenvelDarakus]

easy way to manage heat is to use ice from ice biomes and have water brick where you make o2 who sucksup the heat from nearby , and cool any water you produce and dump it there , you can easily menage ice by making ice statues above pool who will melt down , as well using weezeworts(but on space DLC you need to be mindful with radiation) another way to manage heat is to minimalize batteries , use t2 ones who make less heat , and make generaly the lease amount of heat (like skip making plastic and have drecos ranch , make power by wheels etc) , while game will progress slower im 400 cycles in current save and yet i have to make cooling loop and only place who heatedup sightly is near my living quaters , rest of base is still in cofmortable 15-25 reason i use huge water brick is not as much due heat but place where i keep my fish but this can be dual purpose and act as water cooler for the base

[@robbtc6419]

Did you see Francis John use a similar principle to cool a lava biome with nuclear waste?

[@lumaraw]

No haven't watched anyone play ONI in a while. Sounds like a fun Idea though will search for the vid. Nuclear waste is the best choice for heat deletion. It is DLC only and kind of late game so I went with ethanol

[@robbtc6419]

@@lumaraw yes yours is definitely early materials, but you will be amazed at the application using the same heat deletion principle developed independently

[@robbtc6419]

@@lumaraw kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6vHnZSrm6yNg7csi=C5cetfxJ_6-CmX9K

[@JustOverride]

I would imagine that aluminum ore would work even better than copper ore if you have access to it.

[@Chikicus]

Yeah, I think it has one of the highest conductivities in the game of 205, above Diamond but second to Thermium.

[@lumaraw]

Slight correction if i might do so? The Thermo Aquatuner can be build out of Metal ORE or Steel / Thermium etc. Not from refined metal. The Refined ALuminum has the high thermal conductivity of over 200 the Aluminum Ore "only" has 20.5 which is still super high compared to both copper and gold amalgam.

[@nunoosorio3832]

The potential of this build is concerning.

[@歸虛]

鋁的導熱效果不是更好嗎

[@lumaraw]

Yes it does. But not everyone finds aluminum.

[@esunisen3862]

I don't get it, why would you use this instead of a steam turbine ??

[@demonicbunny3po]

Plastic, if I remember correctly, is needed for steam turbines. Maybe you are dealing with a seed without easy plastic access until deep in the late game.

[@yelomato]

First xd

[@lumaraw]

🏆 *hands over the first pocal :D

[@yelomato]

Yey :D

[@robotnikkkk001]

=I DONT KNOW *_EXACTLY_* ......... BUT FOR A *BASE* , ANYTHING THAT IS _NOT_ LIQUID RELATED, WORT CHAMBERS ARE BEST .......AND....I GUESS........STILL A VERY INTERESTING CONCEPT INDEED, HEHE......BUT WITHOUT AQUATUNERS *_AND_* BASE, THO..........LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT TEMPERATURE WONT GET ANY HIGHER THAN 75C, HEHE =AND..........STILL.............HOW'S ABOUT *_INFINITE STORAGE OF MANUAL AIRLOCKS_* , THO.........TO CRAMP LIKE A CRAPLOAD OF COOLING , HEHEHEHE .............THE SAME GOES FOR A KIND OF........JUST LIKE..........RADIANT PIPE LOOP WITH NUCLEAR WASTE/SUPER COOLANT,.........SO 1 POINT IS AT LIKE .............A BATTERY PACK, AND ANOTHER AT THIS CONTRAPTION, HEHEHEHE....... =BUT STILL, I'VE FOUND JUST A WORT SYSTEM BE GOOD ENOUGH, THO................. JUST GET 1 WORT SEED, AND BASICALLY THAT'S IT, HEHE