Building A 409 From The Block Up - HorsePower S12, E10

[@tomnekuda3818]

I remember in high school one of the guys had a black on black, shaved, electric door handle, '58 Impala with a W-motor 348 and 3 dueces. He was kind of a tough kid with very few words for anybody and handy with his fists. When he found out I could set up his 3 carbs correctly, I had a friend for life (and a pretty good back-up when I got in a fight!). In college I ran into several guys with the 409's......the W motors had a very distinctive sound to them like 426 Hemis, flathead Fords, solid lifter SBC's, etc. Pretty good motor for the day and the combustion chambers always intrigued me.....very different.

[@BronsonOsborne]

we drag race with the FORD FE check out our videos

[@bryancreech1236]

1q

[@Hardcaslte]

Man I remember waking up early on the weekend to watch the OG Power Nation episodes on TV and was always in awe of the power they made with the motors, all of the custom work needed to make it happen, everything about it. Now with modern manufacturing you can buy all of these parts off the shelf any day of the week, and 500hp is just standard now. Back then having a 500hp street motor was just crazy. It would be nice if they included the date the episodes actually aired on TV just for nostalgia, and also because it's confusing to so many people in the comments why the engines are only making 500hp, or why the engine builder isn't in business anymore, etc.

[@tomupchurch4911]

Rest in peace Lamar. You are sorely missed.

[@waynelovejr.1005]

I liked the 409's. We had a '62 Bel Aire with a 409/425hp engine. Probably not original in the car, but it ran a 12.27 on a 12.40 national stock record. Then came the 428CJ mustangs and the national record dropped quickly. Overall, you have to respect the 409's. It was a truck motor, that became something very special. It is now a big part of history. Now-a-days, when I see one, it brings back great memories, plus the knowledge that I am looking at Chevrolet history. How cool is that?

[@txnetcop]

Awesome I miss my old 409 Chevy! Those guides he mentioned are everything when 4000 rpm and above.

[@dannywilsher4165]

I built a 488 cubic inch 409 back in the 70's. Crane cams made a roller cam so 07 wasn't the first roller. I had the same valve covers and same intake. I put it in my 67 SS Chevelle for awhile just to play with it but eventually it went into my 63 SS Impala. Awesome engine!!!

[@elmerfudpucker3204]

Hydraulic roller. They had the solid roller cams for them already.

[@bunk-bn9eo]

I am a big fan of the '67 Chevelle. Has to be my favorite year.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

These guys think this is an "air gap" intake...

[@bruceshook1781]

I think Red Sled and the 409 is possibly my favorite build on powernation!! Cant wait to see it on the road.

[@hawkdsl]

You can see it at their web site. It's been done for years.

[@merlincaldwell547]

Thanks a ton for telling us the cam profile…

[@johnbehneman1546]

LAMAR WALDEN HAS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO BUILD ANY 409 FOR ANY APPLICATION. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND EDELBROCK HAS PERFORMANCE PARTS AS WELL.

[@johnbehneman1546]

Thank you so much. The 409 is alive and well in 2020 and beyond!!!! The heartbeat of America Lives on. !!!!!!!!!

[@johnbehneman1546]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOTORS.

[@autonomous_collective]

Just an awesome engine. Always one of my favorites.

[@stevensanabria1326]

I really appreciate learning from you guys. Some things get repeated over and over and I have to hear it more than once to get it to sink in. I'm subbed and notified and watch everything y'all put out.

[@trillrifaxegrindor4411]

this is anything but educational,they repeat misinformation over and over again

[@stevensanabria1326]

@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 Examples?

[@justonemori]

"bang on this cover so the cam stays straight, check out these sweet heads" love it!

[@sethmccormick6003]

My grandfather drag raced for gm in the 60s (somewhere around 1964) and he had a 409 in a 1958 chevy highway patrol car

[@eribertoacedo9505]

Find looking engine runs very nice awesome build back in the day we used to call the 409 anchors we didn’t have the funds to make them awesome Way to go fellas!

[@pancudowny]

1:20 - No... the 283 was the first to meet--and exceed--the HP/CI ratio N/A. But then, it had Rochester Fuel Injection on it vs. dual quads. However, the dual-quad version (IIRC) did meet it, and they both did it in the '57-m/y.

[@elmerfudpucker3204]

I said the same thing.

[@hahnmowermotorsports179]

I came here to say that but I had a feeling it had already been said.

[@solomonlynn7456]

I have to agree with you when it comes to Chevrolet. The 283 WAS first to make 1 hp per cubic inch in 1957 ahead of the 409. These guys blew it there. When it comes to Chrysler in 1957, the 300B had an optional 354 hemi that made 355 hp. To be fair though, both of these engines were pretty hopped up from the factory. Typically they went out the door at less than 250 hp. Makes for great bar room trivia though! What are your thoughts?

[@williamwolff4965]

I was going to say that as well.

[@downback5822]

I ain't from 57, but...........according to my 57 motors manual the 283 horse 283 w/fuel injection was 10.5-1compression and 2 fours was 9.5-1compression. Would that make the difference? Idk, but fuel injection was like electronics of today and b4 nobody could keep them tuned properly. Interesting that my Motors manual from 57 does not list a 354 as one cube/inch, but close idk maybe I don't doubt it, but 392 was @a high of 375hp

[@RepairGeek]

Isn't that the truth @ 17:20 🤣🤣🤣

[@PontiacsGarage]

Thats a good looking engine. Sounds great. Good job fellas.

[@Rampant_Colt]

LoL that 409 on the dyno scared my cat outta the room

[@Silkmaster4200]

Nice Theater System lol

[@britdragster]

Chevy's first big block I believe.

[@davidreed6070]

I think you should have shown the flat head and the block with the piston up so people could have seen how the combustion works with that engine.

[@johnpopoff7950]

@Slingblade 61 Not the cylinder it's in the block. Thats why it's shaped like a W.

[@kennethmraz8396]

The 409 was the best thing GM made, my brother had one in a 56 chevy and he was blowing the new 340 and 440 off the road with it and all he done was put a they cam in it and two four barrels

[@kencohagen4967]

That X motor also had screw in casting plugs, do freeze plugs. And I love Tri y headers! They are the best type for low rpm engines like 4x4’s, towing and mild performance engines!

[@CarsandCats]

Did you guys here that thing rattling at the beginning of the last pull? Better recurve that distributor!

[@matthewpettit4367]

I heard what almost sounded like a rod as well. Wondering what that was.

[@matthewpettit4367]

I was reading down through the comments waiting to see if anyone else noticed lol

[@hawkdsl]

Yes, it was detonating like balls.

[@joeychaseable]

I heard it

[@terrypikaart4394]

I heard a rattle the whole time

[@brettlyde6338]

Wrong the first Chevrolet engine to make a horsepower per cubic inch was the 1957 fuel injected 283 the first carbureted engine to make a horse power per cubic inch was the Chrysler Hemi in 1957

[@lawrenceburchett7411]

i caught that also guys

[@philipgreen7445]

Brett, The 1955 Mercedes 300SL had more than 1HP/Cu. in, and in more than one configuration. 3 liters was 180 cu. in., and HP was over 200. This was a FI engine. In 1956 the 354 CU In Chrysler in the 300B was optional with 355 HP. This was a carb engine. The 283 Chevy FI engine in 1957 actually made less HP than a well tuned 1957 Chevy engine of 270 HP with 2 4-barrels. (It was virtually identical to the FI engine in all respects except the induction system). Chevy knew this, but want the prestiege of advertising FI, and 1 HP/Cu. in.. Pontiac also offered FI in 1957, but dropped it in 1958 as too unreliable, and championed 3-2 barrel "Tripower" for years to come. A very few 1958 Pontiac Bonnevilles had fuel injection, but most were converted to tripower by the dealers due to consumer complaints.

[@bobbysanders7725]

I caught that crapola to. LOL

[@studleylurch8535]

I swear I heard long ago that carol Carol Shelby was the 1st to get 1hp per ci with a 302 ford...

[@Ticeracing33]

409 wasnt the first hp to cube... it was a 283

[@williamtauriello1581]

My first car, at 17, was a 4-speed, dual-quad, posi traction 409 in a ‘64 SS. With a 300+ degree duration solid-lifter cam from the factory, it could pass anything except a gas station! LOL All kidding aside, it was way too much car for a 1st car and mom and step-dad made me sell it. Would love to have it back...

[@blackmanops3749]

I just realized these videos were filmed maybe decades ago but just recently posted. How does one find out the original air date?

[@JerkVegas86]

Google it. Should come up on imdb

[@matthewghardy]

Can't believe we used to watch these with 5 minutes of commercials between each segment. KZbin is awesome.

[@johnsmith-qz4bv]

one of the best motors gm made back in the day...

[@joethepirate1]

That endplay adjustment is scientific AF.

[@ThePaulv12]

I'm sitting here watching this and as they're about to dyno it I thought I wonder what power it'll make? Initially I thought 480 but then I thought nah it has dual quads so downgrade to 465. So it's 464 initially then 475 after a timing adjustment (before the long tube header swap). Funny thing about this is, after watching literally (not figuratively) hundreds of engine builds that have dyno tests on KZbin, about 80% of the time you can guess the power within a few HP. Go figure! Sometimes I'm way off though. On Nicks Garage they had a 505 Hemi (so a stroked 426) with OEM iron heads and a single 4bbl on a dual plane intake and I guessed maybe 530 (due mostly to the dual plane intake corking the stroker combo). It made 632hp. It isn't that surprising since after watching the 505 Nick's Garage dynoed as stock as is possible 426 Hemi with points, OEM carbs and all and it made IIRC 492hp, so nothing like the factory rating of 425. With such a high starting point for a stock Hemi I suppose a 505 should go into the 600s. Goes to show the Hemi head port airflow potential is far greater than a 7 liter engine turning only 6000rpm needs.

[@warrenstephens3705]

Scott Shaffiroff just posted a single 4bbl 409 with 625 hp. I don't remember the cubes but it's nasty and it didn't come from Lamar.

[@ThePaulv12]

@@warrenstephens3705 There's a few good articles on the W engines. I haven't read any for ages but iirc they have a finite comp ratio that limits them to 11:1 range due to the combustion chamber arrangement so for racing they were at a disadvantage. Still makes them an ideal street motor and I bet the design is naturally detonation resistant too.

[@brgable]

Warren Stephens it’s a 509 cid motor not 409. Lamar is the expert on those 409 motors he will be missed RIP.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@@ThePaulv12 - Actually the W motor design was detonation prone and hard to make big power with so they tossed it, compare to: www.dailymotion.com/video/x3rfhrk

[@manyamile410]

@@BuzzLOLOL nonsense!

[@frankrizzo6965]

When I take her to the track she really shines She always turns in the fastest times

[@pauljanssen2624]

Nice build my brother had a 409 it was one powerful motor only one thing two things silicone on gaskets turns the gaskets to mush and I like sticking with the canister filter canister filter oil filters much oil to two qt spin on filter by the way the old 409 for known for breaking frames

[@fuzzymoto896]

Our family's 1962 Belair Bubble Top 409 was stolen last year out of SoCal. If anyone runs across the car or the motor there is a reward. 425 horse dual quad motor. was in the family for 40 years. we think they may have taken the motor out to make it harder to track down.

[@pauld2672]

Considering that motor has been bored out and you said it now has a 4 inch stroke it would now have a displacement of more than 466 cubic inches.

[@Occuria1]

Gotta love the belt squeal when that Vette started up.

[@danielleighton2553]

Glad to see went with the w motor and not an ls keeping it old school hope your hooking it to a manual transmission

[@michaelbarret1147]

YOU HAVE A STICKER IN THE OIL FILLTER ADAPTER !

[@The80sRocked2]

Can u guys do a 400 sbc AFR heads solid roller cam build? I can't find one on your channel.

[@BlackheartCharlie]

So, only the block was original / new or trick heads, cam, lifters, intake, carbs, ignition, pistons, etc. OK, there was a decent bump in horsepower and torque, but not as much as I might have expected over the original factory specs from over half a century ago. If it were my car, I would give up the power increase for the cool factor of having a factory original engine. Take this motor to a car show and all it shows is that you got parts from sponsors for free and/or just threw money at the motor. Bringing back a factory original motor to stock spec shows respect for the original engineering and truly preserves the history.

[@dyer2cycle]

..yes...same with the car itself, with all the suspension and wheel/tire modding...put it stock...looks way better, too....

[@EricScott-jr8wl]

Correct me if I am wrong....but wasn't the '57 Chev w/ 283 with the Fuel Injection rated at 283 HP. The FIRST engine to have 1 HP to 1 CI ??? Joe is a younger guy and may not remember 1957. lol

[@h.i.sc-10tips31]

👍👍👍THATS A LOT OF MACHINE WORK DONE TO 409 ENGINE

[@chrisrye9128]

Fun nostalgia build! 👍

[@justinreel5546]

I remember watching this episode on tv many years ago

[@Rampant_Colt]

really? I don't remember this one..

[@steven-jn3vu]

Thank you Jesus thank you father thank you holy spirit amen

[@BlakeMcBride]

Says "air gap" 3 times, does NOT have an air gap intake manifold.

[@slyane7320]

I said the same thing, that is NOT an Air-gap intake.

[@Harleybobber]

@@slyane7320 I saw that! I quoted that it WAS NOT AN AIR GAP MANIFOLD! Good JOB!

[@knutbjornlarsen4435]

It was on the cue card so they read it spoke it.

[@MoparMan-ff8fb]

Lol that area you hit with a hammer won't that flex back out when engine is fully warmed up. That sheet metal bolt for the oil filter lol

[@jimfrozen521]

Nice Job fellas

[@jimmyrk3]

I thought the 1957 Corvette FI 283 was the first engine to match horsepower to cubic inches.(1:15)

[@anthonymason701]

I literally stopped the video to go to the comments about this... beat me to it

[@Ecosse57]

no, the chrysler 300 engine was the first.

[@jasonquam9790]

Thank you. Glad someone else called out the 283. Not only in the vette though. Black widow 150 anyone?

[@BuzzLOLOL]

AEarlier '54 Chrysler 354" Hemi had 355 HP...

[@levicheeze5209]

10:13 that was the most awkward thing I’ve ever seen😂

[@boogieman3165]

I don't see an air gap in that intake.

[@bmstylee]

It's a phantom gap.

[@burksdirtsiteprepfreeestim4262]

This is what I was thinking

[@knutbjornlarsen4435]

Look closer. and keep looking.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

You have to drill the hole under it yourself... Script writer was prolly thinking of the 1916 - 1918 Chevy V8s with air gap intake manifold...

[@larryhutchens7593]

That was one strange engine. Unique & an eye catcher but it had problems w/ durability. Back in the day machinists hated the deck cut at an angle to the bore center line. Had to have a special deck plate to bore them & many a ring was broken during installation. Back in the day I witnessed many trying, in vain, to keep up with a max wedge Dodge or Plymouth which had a much better engineered powerplant.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

409 design was copied from Ford... and abandoned fairly quickly... for more conventional design combustion chambers...

[@demonic477]

if you want to turbo this engine at a later date you can get solid copper head gaskets that are thicker then stock and bring the compression down to 10 to 1 making it safe for turbo or supercharger service . solid copper head gaskets are drag racing parts that let you change the compression of a engine depending on the track or fuel your running in most applications you can get them any were from 10 thousands to 100 thousands thickness letting you tailor the compression to your needs without changing the pistons . you got to love being able to make an engine fit any need

[@jesses1097]

RIP Elmore

[@Chevymonster203]

Who else didn't know that the combustion chamber was actually in the block. Interesting design.

[@collinwood6496]

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

[@brian_jake]

@@collinwood6496 lol

[@simplyfred8044]

Oxymoron

[@ethanhessong3033]

Similar to a Ford M.E.L

[@ricogallardo6876]

Primitive Flat headed design, remember, JFK wasn’t even president when they we’re designing it.

[@lawrencecoffeyjr1300]

That makes my mouth water...)

[@AndyLishious]

That sweet sound of belt squeal.

[@larryw5429]

Would nice to see these engines run with and without the air cleaners to see how much restriction they give!

[@simplyfred8044]

Alittle bit of red finger nail polish on the longer push rods helps identify the length.

[@bradleymorehouse7462]

I'd love to have that engine in a 1959 El Camino.

[@solomonlynn7456]

Actually in 1957 the Chrysler 300B came with an optional 354 hemi that made 355 horsepower.

[@dvjracing5947]

LIAR

[@BuzzLOLOL]

That was 1954...

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@@dvjracing5947 - It was 1954...

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@krvnjrcbs - Yes... look it up... 1957 Chrysler 392" hemi came with 375 and 390 HP...

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@krvnjrcbs - Yes...

[@harrygearhart4520]

When installing the cam, you didn't say what the cams axial clearance was suppose to be???? Mine is .020 play without doing any grinding for clearances on the button. Sounds like enough, to me???

[@dposer10]

not sure why the pistons are rounded on the edges that seems like it would increase blowby and side loading

[@mtd610]

17:06 was that a rod knock or detonation?

[@mtd610]

@krvnjrcbs Yes

[@grabasandwich]

10:28 is that overspray on the main cap & crank? 😆

[@jeremymurphy7320]

Long time rumor was that it was actually a Ford engine that made the engine noise in the song. However, I think it's been determined that it was actually a 348 which is just a smaller version of w-block engine.

[@hawkdsl]

Ford people are retarded... You just have to nod your head, and give them your sympathy. It's all we can do.

[@chrisneilson7221]

@ 1:23 No, the Chevy small block matched horsepower to cubic inches in 1957 with the 283/283

[@BuzzLOLOL]

And '54 Chrysler 354" Hemi had 355 HP...

[@troyyarbrough]

I wonder how many times Joe can say "Fine 409".

[@psygn0sis]

12:56 Valve covers that were made for a specific engine.... get outta here!

[@rogermarshall8991]

348 & 409 is specific to the rocker covers. Nothing else fits 'em.

[@ineffable1129]

@@rogermarshall8991 True but the W engines were Chevy's take on the Chrysler polyspherical small blocks which also used a scallop valve.

[@MURATSEYİTHALİLOĞLU]

I have an old car, I would like to strengthen the engine in it, what parts should I replace? Please help, I need your information large piston, thick piston rods, large crankshaft is it enough to power the engine Please

[@BuzzLOLOL]

What kind of engine... each engine design has specific needs...

[@NewtonWashinton]

Nice engine build.

[@radein26]

I'd love to see this done with dual quad efi setup to see how much it makes.

[@josefrobbins8781]

Probably not much more, unless it was port injection EFI, then maybe. You’d see an MPG increase that’s for sure!

[@masonburroughs2082]

What truck did that motor come out of

[@salvadorpastrana5543]

Bus !

[@lars277]

the 283 was the first engine to espouse one hp to one cubic inch displacement.

[@pablojanski.2559]

So you bumped up timing.. Great.. what did you end with?? details matter.

[@jessemurray1757]

Joe "cam bearings" Elmore everyone *clap clap clap*

[@robertm2172]

What’s up with the knock noise in the last pull?

[@navvet4518]

All is good except the carbs. Don’t hit the road without your phone and AAA card. Those Edelbrock carbs should be repurposed as wheel chocks.

[@daddyschainsjewelry]

Ok boomer we have KZbin to debunk mythological out the bum assumptions like the one you and your drunk friend have manifested from a previous hearing.

[@navvet4518]

@@daddyschainsjewelry Please don’t be an idiot. The world is over run with them.

[@sandyshoremann7524]

Bone stock with a factory cam makes 420 HP with dyno headers, Not a good value proposition here. Way too much carb, also. Bet she'd be happier with two 2bb or with a single 4 bbl. No talk about jetting with dual quads. The Motor sounds soft. Big miss there. I guess its just a long Edlebrock ad. Still nice seeing that motor. TY!

[@BobbyOfEarth]

Notwithstanding GM's influence over PowerNations content, I'll point out that the "409 was the first motor ever to match HP to cubic inches" is patently false. In 1961 Ford offered the 352 hipo FE engine that made 360hp...

[@nojunkwork5735]

So what would it cost to build this motor if all the parts and machining weren't given to you?

[@jeffreybrockmanii6779]

I miss Joe.

[@anonymousbrown]

She's so fine, my 409! Woo!!! Hoo!!!

[@greggc8088]

1954 Vette came with an inline 6 with a few having a dealer optioned Paxton supercharger.

[@FreddyFunderbunz]

You may be able to rebuild a 409, but you’ll never be able to rebuild Buddy’s soul...

[@JR-ho5qm]

I thought the small block 283CID 283HP in 1957 chevys was the first motor to make 1 HP per cubic inch.

[@neilpuckett359]

Aren't new 409's being produced in the aftermarket?

[@chrisfennell1431]

Like the song said “she’s real fine my 409”….👍

[@rickyfoster2793]

Beautiful. Bow tie till I die.

[@adamturner2507]

Wow I love this engine you can adjust it with a hammer lol ima Ford guy I'm jealous

[@Taydrum]

its knocking its brains out

[@BuzzLOLOL]

That's why Chevy abandoned the design... which came from Ford originally...

[@wymple09]

The 409 was more than a bored & stroked 348. They redesigned the block for both clearance and better water flow. But, the basics are still the same & they are twins to look at except for dipstick locations.

[@ineffable1129]

The intakes wont swap.

[@wymple09]

@krvnjrcbs Easy enough. Why be an ass about it? Swapping 348 & 409 Intakes The swapping of heads goes along the same path. A set of 409 heads on a 348 requires the 409 intake. Even the reverse, if desired, is the same. A set of 348 heads would fit a 409 block but only with the 348 intake. The intake used on a 348 or 409 must match the heads. That is to say a 348 intake only fits 348 heads and the same goes for a 409 intake and heads. This simple rule even extends to the ultra-rare Z11 heads and intake that only fit each other. But there is more to know about swapping intakes and heads and that is in the chapter on heads.

[@jaysonkirsch1937]

Ok, that 409 is NOT a motor, it is an engine! Motors run on electricity and engines run on some type of fuel like gas or diesel. Is a Rocket shot into space powered by a rocket motor? No, of course not. It is a rocket engine. Passenger jets powered by jet motors? No! Jet engines.

[@mgmcd1]

It was not called a W motor because of the heads, but because of Chevy’s big block development project designation of W. Yeesh you guys.

[@matthenderson1658]

That was my first eye roll too! The history I've read said they had 3 designs: W,Y, & Z. They went with W.

[@Chris.B1111]

7:38 , what's with all the scratching in the bore for a freshly machined engine?

[@DeathHead1358]

It's called crosshatching. I can't remember the exact purpose of it, but I believe it has something to do with helping the rings seal up the combustion chamber.

[@starbattles1]

Thats what a fresh machined cylinder wall is supposed to look like. In the first 1000-2000 miles the rings will wear those sand marks down and the rings and walls will conform to each other. It's part of what happens in the break in period. I bought a rebuilt motor that has sat around after the rebuild. I tore it down and replaces all the gaskets, and the fresh machine marks on walls told me it was indeed fresh rebuild that hadn't even been broken in yet. Only paid $400 for it. (fresh rebuilt 351 cleveland)

[@stevenuhl3828]

Cross hatch, allows the rings to seat correctly and helps for lubrication of the walls

[@Chris.B1111]

@@starbattles1 I'm talking about the scoring, the vertical lines, not the cross hatching from the hone.

[@Chris.B1111]

@@stevenuhl3828 check it again, you can see scoring not cross hatching.

[@SGTJDerek]

Nothing sounds like a 348/409. ❤️❤️❤️❤️. Only one that sounds better is a Flattie.

[@joshuaanzell5823]

I can't believe no four bolt mains

[@brandonbell3089]

They never made them. 2 bolts handle plenty of power

[@Harleybobber]

Hey bro that's not an Edelbrock Air Gap intake. That's a Edelbrock Performer dual plane.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

These actors don't know the difference... or why...

[@marktucker5837]

A very great guy 409 ford killer