Building a Phase Converter - Part 3 Final

[@marcellemay7721]

This rpc build video series is the best of its kind. Great explanations on the parts that really matter and you speed along on the run of the mill stuff. Great narrating. I'm curious as to what you do for a living, you have skills in many areas.

[@rhouser1280]

Filing down the tab on the push button is an absolute genius of a cheap quick fix! Two thumbs up man!

[@MrDbodenheimer]

Great Video series! You made the subject very easy to understand, but what I found more useful was your demonstration of how you got there. The adding of run Caps, the issue with the potential relay, how you modified the switch, etc. All of that information is extremely useful to guys like me trying to get 3 phase power into our shop. I'm on to your cnc series now.....

[@DavidHerscher]

Brah, the range of your skill set is impressive. Watching you work that sheet metal made me realize just how many deficiencies i still have in my personal skill set.

[@nvlvdave]

Absolutely LOVE the mechanical time delay switch - GENIUS. That is thinking outside the box. love the Fantom Leg logo and vinyl, too!

[@perceive8159]

Great to do your own and when they work well that's a bonus! I've built numerous roto phases, for people, my largest being a 60 hp. They last for years and are reliable, one thing to keep in mind also is the values of the capacitors change over time because of usage, so it's good to check them periodically. I have a new approach on a 30hp coming up, I'm working with a motor rewind company that is going to rewind the motor so that the Phantom leg generated is going to equal the voltage of line 1,2. If this works out, which they feel it should there will be no need for balance capacitors, a true balanced delta configuration. Another point on the capacitor balancing,instead of balancing the source motor balance each load motor separately. In other words each motor has it own capacitors bank, then you can really balance that particular motor you are using, it costs a bit more and more work but it is more efficient. It's great that you spent the time to make the vids and the viewers certainly appreciate it, I know do!

[@sbirdranch]

Good lunch with the custom winding. That would be cool. ~P

[@chadjsaul]

Hi there. Your motor balancing rewind project sounds awesome in theory and I’m not sure if it could be put into practice without a lot of trial and error. Is this something you did already? If so, any pointers are appreciated as it seems like something I would pursue if it works out as advertised. Thanks.

[@brainfarth]

How did your winding experiment go?

[@leop9021]

Great video! I finally "get it" thanks to you and that document from the web.

[@victoryfirst2878]

Best video on the subject period. VF

[@Lucky4wd4840]

Enjoyed, We used electronic timer relay to control the start cap on phase converters in the oil patch.

[@mikewurlitzer5217]

By far the best videos on this subject: Kudos. I have, for the last 20 years, been using a RPC to drive my Pipe Organ Blower motor. NO where near as nice as your build. The legs were never quite balanced but the motor has always run cold to the touch. WARNING: To those who asked about VFDs. Make POSITIVE the motor to be used is VFD rated. Without special filtering the spikes generated by the PWM square waves can generate voltages far higher than the insulation on some older motors can withstand. My 1928 10hp Pipe Organ blower motor would NOT last long on a VFD without the appropriate filter. Had a local theater blow up an old 25 Hz motor because of the 4 times the rated voltage in spikes generated by the VFD. Again, fantastic video!

[@randywright918]

just want to say thank you use everything that you explain build a 10 horse converter around my Cincinnati horizontal it worked perfect! your explanations were great and I can know trouble shoot and repair my own converter which is what I wanted

[@randywright918]

talk to text stinks LOL sorry for the bad spelling

[@dal2888859]

Love it! I just today dropped my 50 hp 3 phase converter about 8 feet onto the concrete while trying to mount it up over my shop bathroom. Terrible feeling. A bunch of the capacitors fell out onto the floor and the panel box took some damage. Otherwise I don't know that there is any visible damage. I can't say for the motor, but it is encased in a giant 1/4" metal bell type enclosure. Hopefully it still works. Will know more tomorrow. At any rate, as a complete electrical novice, stumbling across your video was a godsend in helping me to understand something of the structure in which all those capacitors operate. Hopefully we can get it put back together and working tomorrow. Really reassuring to see how actually simple the whole set up is. Kinda ;)

[@sbirdranch]

I hope your gravity test provide to be of little impact (pun intended). That is a big converter and must run some sizeable equipment. ~P

[@dal2888859]

@@sbirdranch Thanks I think we got it all back together correctly. Checked with the builder of the converter whose number was attached to the unit. Should test today!

[@mrbean4982]

@@dal2888859 may i know what is your maximum load for your 50hp rpc? 50hp is your idle motor right?

[@dal2888859]

@Mr Bean i dont know much about it tbh wish i could help

[@mrbean4982]

@@dal2888859 your 50hp is operational to this day?

[@stephencregorykelley9850]

WOW!! You have totally inspired me to build my own converter!! This was epic!! Thank you!! Super awesome narration! I'm subscribing!

[@stephencregorykelley9850]

This was THE BEST description of a rotary phase converter i have EVER seen, period. Before I was basically thinking that I had to buy a manufactured, pre-assembled converter, I guess I thought there was wizardry and black magic involved, but now I'm moving forward with my own project.

[@Mdkayakangler]

Great job on the video series you’ve inspired me to build my own rotary phase converter for a 20 hp three phase air compressor thanks again for sharing I may reach out to you during the build

[@1971Frenchy]

absolutely fantastic great job one of the best videos on how to make a phase converter I've ever seen on the Internet

[@sbirdranch]

1971Frenchy Thank you.

[@ki4clz]

this is the best set of videos on the subject... thank you

[@Migtigarcangel]

Amigo this is a great set of videos! Thank you very much! I got a 5 hp lathe and my phase converter has a 3hp pony! And when I try to start the lathe it makes lot of noise! My Bridgeport mill starts right up no noise!

[@sbirdranch]

The phase converter needs to be larger than the motor being driven. Your 5hp lathe needs at least a 7.5hp phase converter. Your bridgeport isn't 5hp.

[@KevinCoop1]

Just a few comments. 1. I'm very surprised that someone with the sheet metal skills you have would install plywood backboard in a control cabinet. Also, plywood should not be used. 2. I believe you had a contractor, not a motor starter. Starters have motor overload protection built in, contractors do not. Also, relays are less than 20 ampere devices. 3. You installed conduit and pulled NM cable (romex) in it. If the conduit is longer than 6 feet, that's a no no. 4. On the last video, you used ground to make the 120 volt coil work in the contractor. Since you used MN cable and I watched carefully, you did not bring a neutral to the board and still used the ground. Will it work, yes. Is it safe, possibly. Is it correct and NEC or UL compliant, no. Mostly you did an excellent job! Respectfully, Kevin

[@jamesleem.d.7442]

Terrific production values in these three videos. Looks like a great shop, and a happy dog and cat also.

[@thebeekeepersworkshop]

Great Great video series, about time guys, explain what they are doing without fast-forwarding the video and you see it all done, Thank you for taking the time to show us. What was the HP of the pony motor and would it be able to run a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor? Thanks again.

[@bryoncovell6325]

The start relay failed due to current higher than design. In a submersible pump application with external caps and start relays, it is common to see the output of the start relay powering a contactor. The contactor then puts the start capacitor in and out of the circuit. I rebuilt an old cabinet for a lift station using this logic, and the problem with the repeating (every few months) capacitor melt down stopped. Hope that helps. Great video, very informative.

[@kenthodson4645]

Thank you for your ideas and examples. I just finished a phase converter similar to yours - ran the first time I powered it up.

[@sbirdranch]

Congratulations!

[@scottneels2628]

Thanks for this series! Much Appreciated.

[@joenewman4013]

Nice information. Im building a phase converter for my Mill will be a 40 hp. This the best information out there on tuning the converter

[@sbirdranch]

40 up! Dang that is a big mill. Good luck on the build. ~P

[@Raul_Gajadhar]

Wonderful piece of electrical engineering. Good narration too.

[@BadFeat]

Thanks for the series. I watched it three times fo far. When I build my shop, I will probably put in a 15 hp one. Thanks for the intell.

[@sbirdranch]

Ah the anticipation of a new shop.....best of luck to you. ~P

[@BrotherMiracleMike]

Very nicely done series! Keep them coming.

[@sbirdranch]

Thanks. ~P

[@garenzotoppin3615]

Thanks for your vid. I'll be doing the same thing with the switch to avoid the use of the potential relay

[@EngineerPEretired]

5:34 I really appreciate your videos on this subject... I enjoyed your details... with that said, -- please, do not wear gloves when working near a tool that can pull you in... That is the gloves can pull your hand in; rather no gloves and no glove can pull you in... Hope you take this as caring... PS Your Boston brake is awesome.

[@chauvinemmons]

You can use neoprene gloves without any fabric in the rubber so that way it'll tear easy

[@timholloway3007]

The problem with your potential relay, may have been it's mounted position. IIRC all potential relays used to be position sensitive, and were labeled with an arrow pointing up, or the word Up printed on the shell. Since your potential relay worked the in the horizontal position on your mock up, but then failed in the vertical position on your build box, I suggest that the relay failure was because of position, and not some other random failure. I used to do lots of these relays in the HVAC business many decades ago, especially when installing a hard start kit on a single phase compressor. Tim

[@sbirdranch]

I think you are correct. I didn't realize the position sensitivity at the time.

[@JHACbiz]

came here to say the same thing.

[@ulcwiz3709]

First off - great video and explanation. And of course, what little we see of your shop and property has us all [at least me] salivating for a small portion of same. But I have the feeling you planned, built, and earned it on your own. So ... KUDOS!!! Now: On to comment: Never been a fan of capacitor simulation of true 3Φ wiring for this reasoning: (and I'm surprised you didn't bring up the subject) the balancing of load current depends greatly on the load, so the values of the various caps has to be adjusted for the specific situation. As a slightly absurd example: since your setup is for a 10 horse motor, does anyone think it would work equally well for a ½HP or a 100HP beast ? One reasoning for posting this is the number of responses you've received from readers who plan to use the exact design for different setups. Have the feeling they may not get what they expect. Whatever, keep up the good work. and should you ever wish to share your shop with a Central Oregon DIY'er, give us an eMail. Thnx, Bruce

[@sbirdranch]

Hay Bruce. Thanks for you thoughts and comments. Maybe someday when I move back out west you can come take a tour. ~P

[@CrimFerret]

Great set of videos. These really aren't that complex to put together and certainly can be built for a lot less than the cost of a commercial unit. While I admire the ingenuity of modding that switch, I wouldn't feel comfortable risking the motor in the event the tab on that 25 cent piece broke. There has to be a way to do it that can't fail in a way that would destroy the motor. I'd very definitely want a fuse or breaker for the motor (the really expensive part of this) regardless. Secondly, I'd be using 4 wire. Neutral and ground aren't the same and treating them that way could be deadly. Finally, even with the 4 wire setup where you could pull 110 volts off, it would be a lot better to just use parts that are designed for 240v. You didn't mention it, but you need to pick a contactor that can handle the maximum amperage the motor could pull. They aren't all the same.

[@branchandfoundry560]

From what little I know...Delta utilizes 3-wires wherein ground functions as neutral. Wye configuration utilizes 4-wires with separate neutral and ground. Please advise, thank you!

[@CrimFerret]

@@branchandfoundry560 Neutral can be tied to ground, but unless you verify that, you can't assume it is. When you are dealing with the voltage and current levels you have in a phase converter, you don't want to assume anything.

[@georgeowen2083]

Thank you for dumbing this down for those of us that are not as familiar with electrical work. What hp is your pony motor and what would an alternative be to the filing down the switch you did?

[@branchandfoundry560]

Use a delay for the filed switch alternative. Not 100% sure on his pony motor hp, but either 7.5hp or 10hp.

[@nathanjohnson7640]

Thank you, I really enjoyed this series. Keep up the good work.

[@derrick_builds]

Love the sticker at the end.

[@DuffMF-gr5to]

Hi Excellent job .Would you have details of various capacitors you have used thanks

[@Jeremy-iv9bc]

Is there a cheap source for the capacitors? It seems to me it would probably be about the same price to just buy a complete RPC panel than to try and build one.

[@robertlark7156]

Excellent videos sir, you are to be commended. Built my 10 hp unit following your directions. When I try to start it the pony motor just hums and seems to lock up. The pony motor is currently wired Delta. Should I wire it wye/delta and if so would this eliminate my problem?

[@riversvic]

Great Series! Came out really nice. I would attempt a build myself but I had a few phase converters laying around on the ranch but I still may go the VFD route. That corner notcher would be really handy to have.

[@sbirdranch]

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. The VFD route is tempting. I discovered the other day that my wood lathe is 3phase with a VFD. I had never payed attention to 'that little box' on the back. As for the corner notcher....ya. I would have never guessed how much I would use something like that. All the sheet metal equipment came at the same time so I am still discovering how useful some of it is. I use the manual sheer a lot more than I thought too. ~P

[@DougHanchard]

Will this build be able to handle VFD 3 Phase motors? I'm looking at a Bridgeport Mill with a 550V 3 Phase VFD head motor and need to build a converter as you have with a residential - rural that only has 240 Single Phase power supply coming to the house.

[@sbirdranch]

Doug Hanchard I am not sure of the answer to your questions. I have no idea how you would step up to 550v. Also in my limited experience a VFD does the phase conversion. At least the ones I have like on my router spindle and wood lathe.

[@terrypardy1678]

I watched all three parts of the series and think possibly you could use a supco hard start kit for your starter capacitor and momentary contact, Maybe. LOL

[@elkvis]

For disengaging the starting capacitor, you could also use a relay that energizes from the ghost leg, and disconnects the starting cap as soon as sufficient voltage is present there.

[@stevenhall9020]

yeah i think the potential relay is wired wrong from what i see, likely why it blew up the cap.

[@chrischambers330]

A lot of places are now requiring a 4 conductor cord or wiring for 240 VAC installs. This allows both a neutral and a ground.

[@sbirdranch]

chris Chambers I had heard of that for 120/ 240 cicuits.

[@kenhnsy]

For safety, especially this application, you really should put have a dedicated ground conductor. It looks like you are using ground for neutral. However, the ground conductor should not be used to conduct current during normal conditions.

[@oddsman01]

Other than being awesome, what’s the benefit of this setup over a store bought phase converter?

[@sbirdranch]

Nothing. Assuming it is one well built. I have seen some shade tree version that aren't balanced. For me the decision was 2. Challenge and Cost. This was cheaper for me having had the box and a source for inexpensive caps. ~P

[@AM-dn4lk]

Just Awesome!

[@blh3741]

Im curious why the start capacitor switch is needed once you have the run capacitors hooked up .Only reason I ask is That I have a 16 HP converter from Phase-a-Matic and I believe that it does not contain one, at least a manual one. GREAT video series!

[@sbirdranch]

Manual or Automatic, I bet there is one in there somewhere. Start caps are like coffee...You need the jolt to get started but can't run on it all day. Start caps will blow up if left in the circuit too long. You see that in this video. ~P

[@bobbyshaftoe45]

Did you look into building a rotary phase converter? They seem to be a lot more reliable over time. What are your thoughts on the comparison between them?

[@hyperborean.]

It IS a Rotary Phase Converter.

[@trustno1482]

Gr888 series 👍, but one question does this method work on a 2 phase l1,l2 each line is 110 volts instead of the single phase 220 v?

[@skillet4215]

There is no such thing as 2 phase. 110/120 v and 220/240 v are both single phase. 110 has a line (hot leg) and neutral, 220 has two lines and a neutral (both 1 phase). Three phase has 3 lines or hot legs. The third leg may be of a different voltage. Hope this helps.

[@badjuju6563]

Is the idler motor running in star or delta, no one seems to cover or mention that? Since you did such a great job.... is it still working and whats the idler motor wiring config? thanks

[@sbirdranch]

Well that is an interesting question...I don't know what wiring config it is in. What I'm curious about is (for this application), does it matter? i don't know that either. I have built 3 of these now and have never concerned myself with this detail. Also, the documentation I follow, never calls it out as something to address or compensate for. If you uncover something concrete, please post it back here and I'll pin the comment to the top for others. As for your other question...Yes. It still performs great. I used it yesterday running my sheet metal shear. As I mentioned, I've made three now with this information and they are all in good order. Good luck with your build if you go forward. ~P

[@badjuju6563]

@@sbirdranch Just with a Star it provides a neutral line at the intersection so things like lights can be utilized so can 5 pin plugs 3P+N+E vs a 4 pin 3P+E.

[@chrischambers330]

Me again, one other suggestion, once you decide on the total amount of capacitance in each phase you might be better off with replacing the multiple caps with singles as this would simplify mounting and future trouble shooting.

[@tracrooster]

Great vid and info, I just purchased a used mig welder and feeder 3 phase power needed to operate, 230/460 volts , 30/15 amps,60hz ,3ph, after extensive research RPC is my option, my question is, in your expertise, do I need a 10 or 15 hp motor to run this welder or can I get by with 5hp or less ? Your vids on subject is by far the best out there, thanks for posting

[@medmike007]

Welder usually need a lot. Look at discussions on Practicalmachinist web forum. I have similar 480 mig and I'm going 30 hp ( got crazy good deal but it's 350 pounds!). Maybe overkill but I'd say do at least 20 hp. Gives you room for other needs down the road too.

[@nicodeklerk9218]

Hi . Thanks for this detailed layout. I have done my phase converter and it is balanced on the volts and it starts the lathe motor 5.5kW like a dream. Currently the motor is not installed in the lathe due to gearbox problem. What I did see is that the amps drawn with out load is 1.2 ,1.5 and ghost leg is only 0.6A . Is this normal or do I need to do further balancing. I run a 11kW converter on 220V . I will appreciate if you can give me some pointers to looks at.

[@mkhan-ny6nq]

Thanls for sharing your wisdom. P.S love the house and the shop

[@SoCalTint]

Hi great videos! My question is I have a 25HP 3PH motor that came with my air compressor. I’ve been trying to use a 10HP 1PH motor instead but it starts then overloads and starts slowing down eventually tripping the breaker. Can I use the 10HP 1PH motor to make the phase converter to operate the 25HP 3PH motor?

[@bcwillywilson]

to run the 25 hp compressor you would need a motor that is at least 37.5 hp, with a rotary phase converter you will loose about 1/3 of the power of the pony motor in generating the third leg of power.

[@skillet4215]

Nope, the idle motor needs to be matched or within 1.5 times the work motor

[@alientrade]

I was just wondering. Could you have used a magnetic starter switch instead of the one you ended up using? Also, did you hook one side of the starter switch to ground so it would work as 120 volts? I am not quite clear as to the wiring configuration of the contactor with the momentary on button. Is there somewhere I can look to get the schematic of that particular wiring diagram? Thanks, Barry

[@branchandfoundry560]

Same question here. (Edit: He references the Practical Machinist schematic, but his layout and components are different. To my ignorant mind this seems like building a Chevy and telling folks to reference the Ford build sheet. Both are cars, but they're sure not the same. Referencing one to build the other leads to frustration and a lot of head scratching.)

[@kazeem-mustapha]

Hi. What I couldn't see in all the 3 videos is the wiring of the the Pony motor from the supply and the load. Can you show how Pony motor wiring is done? Also you mentioned that there is current reduction by connecting the 20uF capacitor across the supply voltage, how much current reduction did you get?

[@stuarth43]

good stuff me boyo building one now, follow you .

[@shamanking5195]

How do you deal with the heat generated by the capacitors ??, did you installed a cooling fan ???.

[@georgeorwell7607]

Sbirdranch very nice videos(1,2,and 3 parts). how can I get a copy of that document you talked about in part 1?

[@sbirdranch]

There is a link in the description. Glad you found them useful.

[@jeffreyzander8543]

How did you size your conductors, devices and fuses

[@wm79198]

Slap a UL listing on that and go into production. Looks good, and most importantly it works well. Did you bond your enclosure to ground?

[@walterjwalnut9964]

I am aware that this may be a bit late as your RPC series was released almost 18 months ago. However, I have just located and viewed it and have some concerns. Firstly, using the ground as an alternative current path to a neutral is not a smart move, and would most certainly not be legal or legit in my country (Australia). The purpose of a ground connection is to ensure that all metal housings in equipment and appliances is bonded to earth potential and cannot present a shock hazard under any circumstances. By directing the return path of the contactor coil and indicator light to ground instead of neutral, you run the risk of leaving the case of such equipment and appliances energised if there is ever a discontinuity in the path from the ground buss to the ground stakes, which can be lethal. Secondly, the system you have used to select the balancing capacitors only balances for the pony motor in the RPC, and does not compensate for unbalanced loads applied to the converter. It seems that the initial testing was with the powerpack for your guillotine, but you also mention a 5HP lathe motor and a mill in the series. It is quite likely that all of these machines present some load imbalance to the RPC ( control systems, pumps, DRO's, lighting etc) that the RPC cannot compensate for. This will put the RPC off balance and may result in even more ground current flowing, since it cannot be channeled through the neutral as the distribution system intends. I accept that you may be aware of these shortcomings and have made an executive decision that they are not relevant in your actual situation, but as the otherwise high quality video could be classed as 'Instructional', others may follow your decision process without being aware of the potential issues, and hence not able to make a qualified decision as to the overall safety of their unit.

[@richcollins513]

Does the potential relay have a metal base? If so it needs heat dissipation through a heatsink. Just a guess Nice Series of videos

[@hbo-theretiredlandbanker1829]

You have created a very informative and nice video sir... I am on the process of making the 3 phase converter using my 7.5 hp pony motor with LEROY SOMER brand. Is it safe to use the same microfarad in your video since you are using 7.5 hp pony motor also? Thanks for your time to answer and God bless you...

[@sbirdranch]

The point of tuning the caps to your motor is that motors differ. Age and efficiency and windings etc. These differences mean your best voltage balance with your motor may differ. You could start with what I have and tune from there.

[@DougHanchard]

You have produced an excellent video. +1

[@cthompson658]

potential relays are position sensitive, the contacts close due to back emf and once that drops gravity opens contacts.

[@sbirdranch]

Well, that could explain things. I didn't know that. There was no indicator saying "This side up." Thanks for the tip.

[@boblewis5558]

Not sure how long they've been around in the US, but what you call panel knockout dies we have known in the UK (I have anyway) for over 60 years as Q-Max cutters (trade name and sold as such) and if you really want a nice clean hole with no jagged edges (you may need to deburr the back edge but otherwise definitely not jagged as I'm sure you know) there is NOTHING to touch them except a proper fly press and die/s. I've had a set of these for at least 45 years, the largest I have is 2.5 inches diameter and there is at least ONE rectangular cutter available. They work on steeel, aluminium, brass, copper and plastic but on plastic great care is needed not to cause stress cracking. I've had good success with using a precut piece of aluminium at the back back as a stress reliever. They do NOT work well on the harder plastics like Lexan or Plexiglass as they are too brittle.

[@bcstechnologylimited896]

Panel knockouts have been available in the US since at least the 1930s, originally made by Greenlee.

[@jcblll45]

Enjoyed your three videos, neat build with a good explanation. A quick question, on the idle motor how is it wired Y or Delta and does it matter? Same for the 3 phase motors Y or Delta or doesn't matter. Thanks

[@trickywu9796]

Yes it does matter. A motor in a “Y” configuration runs on 220-240v AC while in a delta configuration runs on 420 AC three phase off course.

[@branchandfoundry560]

Delta is 3-wire configuration wherein the ground wire functions as the neutral. Wye configuration is 4-wire with separate ground and neutral wires. Voltage does not correlate to one configuration or the other.

[@BadFeat]

Just quick questions. 1. Once the starter motor starts the pony motor, the starter motor is no longer needed? 2. All of the power is captured from the pony motor?

[@sbirdranch]

1. Yes. I am not using a starter motor but off you are it is only necessary to get the pony motor spinning. I have seen people use a rope wound around the pony motor shaft which they pull to start it spinning. 2. There is some power used by the pony motor to maintain its running state but because it has no load, it doesn't consume much. ~P

[@drstrangelove09]

So, the button connects the cap, and then, when released, disconnects the cap?

[@brianwarburton4482]

Great video. Are all the capacitors electrolytic and if so, how do you know what polarity to use?

[@sbirdranch]

Capacitors for this king of thing are all AC capacitors. They are all oil filled. DC cap's you have to worry about polarity. ~P

[@bobbylarson80]

Would this work for 3 phase transformer charger?

[@1971Frenchy]

One question,what gauge wire did you use for all the wiring??

[@sbirdranch]

1971Frenchy I used 10 and 12. The document I reference makes suggestions on what gauge to use where.

[@alexfrizzell9587]

Thanks for the education, extremely good video.....BTW, love the dog and cat :)

[@HeritageStoneworks2]

awesome videos I want to make one now!! Thanks

[@pauljanssen2624]

You were probably overloading the potential relay causing it to fill you could have added a relay in circuit to take the load off the potential relay the potential relay kicks out when the voltage rises to a certain point you can get adjustable ones wiring it so the load doesn't go through the relay and you may want to have a fuse on the start capacitor

[@Ragnar.Lothbrok.3.14]

Is there a commercial switch that will do the same as your modified push button switch?

[@sbirdranch]

Yes. They are rotary and work much like the ignition on your car. When the motor is up to speed they spring back to the run position.

[@creativeglassandprint4992]

Great mind and teaching techniques as well. I have been a cabinetmaker for over 40 yrs, I just bought a used wide belt sander that is 3 phase. 20 hp. So I was considering building a converter such as the one you built.I was wondering when you balanced the legs and added the 3 caps, once you knew the total mfd's could you at that point just purchase 1 cap that size to minimize how many caps are in the cabinet?Also the final solution in the potential relay system was brilliant, however for a novice is there a off the shelf solution?I have a fairly good mind for electrical so I believe with your great tutorial I could build this.One more thing would you suggest purchasing a new motor vs a used one as I am going to need a 40 hp 3 phase motorThanks, and again great Job :-) Joe

[@sbirdranch]

40hp! Damn. If I had to go that big, I'm afraid I'd be looking at a commercial unit. The amature solution to the start button, is to just use two seperate buttons. Press the button for the start cap first, then tap the button for the 'run' to activate the motor starter. When the pony motor starts up, let go of the first button. Just like to do when you start a car, you let go of the key when the motor fires....I just realized there may be people in the audience that have never turned a key to start a car. Wow! I better go dial the phone. ;) P.

[@deborahjolly5945]

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it! And I have my very own key!

[@infoanorexic]

Well, I remember lots of vehicles that had a separate push button for operating the starter. I vaguely remember vehicles that had a 4th pedal that you literally had to stomp to start the engine... fun, if the parking brake didn't work, you were on a hill, and you had to hold the throttle wide open to get it to start. Many a man and several women lost their religion over those. I even remember one vehicle that didn't need a key for the ignition. Just a simple toggle switch on the dash.

[@sclearman9841]

Are you using the E-stop to turn the converter off each time?

[@OchoVera]

Nice Build. I'm a little confused as to why you decided to use several capacitors instead of one larger capacitor.

[@sbirdranch]

To start, when you follow the process of tuning, you don't go into it knowing what you need. Sure you can take a guess and it will work, but that was exactly the point of showing everything I did in the first video.....Oh. Did you watch the first video? Do so if you didn't. I think it will answer your question. ~P.

[@johnraifsnider113]

@@sbirdranch Oh Kay-you had them through prototyping so used what you had in leu of buying singles!

[@Migtigarcangel]

I am running a 5 horse lathe and I have a 3 hp pony! What should I do?

[@mattriley3755]

So this is just 220 3phase?? How would i convert single phase 220 to 3 phase 400??

[@adrianwilliams9863]

sbirdranch You reference the Fitch Williams schematic but only used the start Contactor. why not the run Contactor and transformer as he draws out? I thought potential and timed relays where not to be used in anything over 7.5 HP? what am I missing? I'm building one and want to do as exactly what Fitch prescribes so just curious.

[@sbirdranch]

I achieved the same functions just in a different way. The primary thing I got for his documentation wascapacitor sizing and tuning. I've never heard the limit on potential relays so maybe it is good I didn't use one in the end. Just as an aside, the converter is still working great without further change. ~P

[@adrianwilliams9863]

@@sbirdranch awesome thanks. looking back what would have been an alternative in your mind to the switch alteration?

[@sbirdranch]

@@adrianwilliams9863 I built another one very similar to my design, for my cousin and used two buttons. The start sequence was to press and hold the "start" button, then press the "on" button. When the pony motor comes up to speed, you let go of the start button.

[@nachol.3837]

Hello! nice job. One question please, what happen if I connect 120V instead of 220V?

[@sbirdranch]

Nacho L. It won't work. 220v is minimum for the two phases.

[@nachol.3837]

Thanks my friend. You should do more electrical projects ;)

[@JonHeckendorf]

Good videos, good circuit and design, and nice narration. Good enough for me to duplicate what you have done. Thanks. Just a word of caution. The switch that you modified is a potential problem. Years down the road it might fail and you go to change it out forgetting that you modified it. Or, someone else has the same problem not knowing the switch was modified. Either way, you might have the original problem return.

[@meo5046]

nice explain, and nice project, thanks a lot

[@fastechmachine7877]

great video i am building converter now and gave me some insight

[@sbirdranch]

I'm glad it had some value for you. What are you going to drive with your converter? ~P

[@fastechmachine7877]

220 volt single phase to motor 500 mf start cap then try some run caps to bal system

[@kentuckytrapper780]

You have one start compasator, the rest are run compasator right?

[@sbirdranch]

Correct. I could have used multiple smaller ones but I had a single one large enough.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

@@sbirdranch I've got a phase-a-matic box it has three big start compasator but it blows up the compasators, there over charging I think, what closes the power off after the motor starts? I don't understand it. Your videos really help. Thanks man.

[@jaimeevillegaspublico5595]

how much amps is the capacity of this converter sir,and how many horsepower of your pony motor?thank you sir

[@hyperborean.]

Pony motor: Seven and a half horse totally enclosed fan cooled motor - 3Phase

[@MaturePatriot]

The final push button switch, is it the HW1B-M1F10-G, that the link takes you to, at Amazon?

[@sbirdranch]

Mature Patriot Yes. I used two of them to make a single double pull double throw momentary button.

[@medmike007]

Great video. Why did you need 2 switches to make 1? I thought simply filing down one mechanical contact was all you need to do.

[@sbirdranch]

Michael Roberts I needed both halves to be normally open. I couldn't buy that combination.

[@MaturePatriot]

I looked on the internet for 3 days for a double NO switch but never found one.

[@medmike007]

Got it! Thanks! I just ordered 2 switched. I have a massive 30 hp project going and wanted to use your design,

[@ufohakunamaka6049]

Nice video. Please can you build this panel for me

[@bluefishbeagle1]

In regard to your problem with the potential relay and start capacitor is there any reason that a kick start relay/capacitor setup would not work since they are matched from the get go even has a bleed off resistor? For my build I'm using a 5HP idler motor. see: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008A3UJ7I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

[@lm0315]

Just curious. What is the load capacity on some thing like this? I mean how many 3 phase machines can you run at one time?

[@hankkline7300]

You can use as many as you want. I have connected the output to a three phase panel and hooked up a whole machine shop, the more machines you use the more efficient it works. Just make sure you start the smaller loads first.

[@skillet4215]

Hank is correct, the more the merrier. It seems counter intuitive but each motor helps to balance the system, so I have been told by a rep from a manufacturer.

[@Migtigarcangel]

Could you tell me what size is the pony motor?

[@sbirdranch]

My pony motor is 10hp. This is one size larger than my biggest motor I want to drive (7.5hp). ~P

[@car9167]

Why can't a VFD inverter run a 3 phase motor as an idler and connect the load directly on the motor phases. The motor coils will act as a low pass filter

[@MaturePatriot]

Just ordered three 100uf capacitors. It's a start. I am retired now and on a fixed income, although my wife still works, my expenditures are limited for what she calls my toys. It's 13x40 lathe, it is definitely not a toy, I said defiantly. lolol

[@sbirdranch]

I hope you are progressing well. ~P

[@MaturePatriot]

Still waiting on a couple parts. I have everything I've received so far laid out on my work table, in the position it will be installed.

[@MaturePatriot]

Just got my switches, and built a double throw switch with delay. There is about a 3/32 difference between contact depths on switch push. Don't know about these cheap Chinese switches. Have 2 more, better quality, ordered to replace these. Did you put a bleed resistor on your capacitors? Didn't hear you say anything about a resistor. Still waiting on the magnetic motor starter to finish the assembly. I do appreciate your sharing the videos on this build, they have saved me a ton of time and money.

[@sbirdranch]

I did not add a bleed resistor. They bleed out through the motor windings. In the first video I think you see me check the capacitor charges and they die almost immediately.

[@MaturePatriot]

Been fighting a couple orthopedic issues with my left hand and wrist, but FINALLY was able to finish my 5hp RPC. It is performing great. Thank you so much for your tutorial.

[@bcstechnologylimited896]

A project like this one is not for the electrically uninitiated to undertake. You are working with high voltages and currents. A construction and/or wiring mistake can result in damage to the load, a fire, or worse yet, a lethal shock. I question the economics of building your own rotary converter. Unless you can get all the parts needed to build the unit dirt-cheap (those capacitors can quickly add up in cost-oil-filled capacitors are much more long-lived in this sort of application than non-polarized electrolytics, but are also more costly), a quality static phase converter with a UL/CSA/CE listing will likely be no more expensive, especially once you account for the expense of a suitable enclosure. Also, static units make little noise, exhibit more accurate phase balance, and are more energy-efficient.

[@chrischambers330]

Suggestion, you suggest the use of a plywood board for mounting, Don't never put anything flammable inside of an enclosure. The other reason is the metal back will ease grounding and make the whole project safer. The other thing is wood in an enclosure will never pass code.

[@bugkiller5293]

mount that motor up high and make it a big exhaust fan!?

[@sbirdranch]

Oh the funny there. I seem to have some resistance to exhaust fans. I have two new, in the box, fans for different purposes. They have been bought over the years, and I have never installed them. Did I mention I coated my headers yesterday? Oh how I wish I would install a fan. ~P

[@Camz316]

The solenoids in most potential relays are gravely fed. That’s probably why it failed when you hung it up.

[@joer9719]

I've been following your videos on the build, they are really well explained and setting everything up on the big board really helps in understanding how the wiring is put together. Is the start capacitor 120v or 240v? Also in the last video I seem to have lost your explanation of how you modified the push button switch for the start button.